Why is Siegelman in jail, the war criminals not?

[MannyGoldstein]

Why are the only people being prosecuted and jailed due to torture, the ones who reported the crimes?

Department of Justice? Really?

[wavesofeuphoria]

1. We don't prosecute some folks.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Too big to jail. nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

2. Sign the petition for a presidential pardon for Don

http://www.donsiegelman.org/

[newfie11]

3. And why hasn't he already been pardoned? Nt

[msanthrope]

6. Well...you need to start with the fact that an actual pardon request hasn't been filed. nt

[former9thward]

11. Nixon was pardoned without a pardon request.

A president can pardon whomever they want whenever they want. There is no constitutional requirement for "an actual pardon request". I don't know if such a request has been submitted but I do know over 100 Attorneys General wrote Obama in September, 2012 asking Obama to grant clemency in the case. Obama is aware of the issue.

[msanthrope]

12. Nixon wasn't in jail. BOP gets their say. You really want President Obama to act like

Ford?

[former9thward]

13. I want Obama to do the right thing.

Not rest on technicalities. Maybe you don't. Obama is aware of the issue and if he was inclined to pardon Siegelman I'm sure that information would have been communicated and any formalities complied with. BTW there is nothing in the Constitution about the BOP "getting their say". The Constitution is the supreme law, not regulations.

[msanthrope]

14. I agree that President Obama should grant a pardon if the situation warrants it. But there's no

reason for special treatment....fill out thr paperwork, and get the ball rolling.

As for your comment that BOP isn't in the Constitution.... well neither is my right to go have an abortion when I choose. You want to start a debate about what's the difference between what's in the Constitution and what is constitutional? Because you are taking a very Originalist argument....

[former9thward]

18. Wow.

You are equating privacy rights to the "rights" of the BOP? Now that says everything.

[msanthrope]

23. I'm reminding you of the law. And FYI...there's a shitload of poor men in jail for drugs

Last edited Fri Dec 12, 2014, 03:27 PM - Edit history (1)

who deserve pardons, including some clients of mine. They can't afford lawyers, and their cases get no publicity, no petitions, and no fundraising. If President Obama is gonna start raining pardons from the sky, he can start with people who didn't just get the opportunity to appeal, get their sentences reduced, AND have their appeal considered by SCOTUS (but denied cert.)

At the minimum, a guy who can foment a SCOTUS filing can probably fill out the paperwork for a pardon.

Tell you what though...I look forward to the OP making some OPs about pardons for minorities unfairly targeted by drug sentencing laws. Since we are talking pardons....that's where our greatest legal crisis is.


Oh...and on edit...right of privacy? My abortion rights are not merely a privacy argument: they are greater. They are a claim to liberty itself, and therefore I find your legal analysis of that issue as moribund as the Originalist argument above.

[former9thward]

27. Well I agree with your first three paragraphs...

[msanthrope]

28. Well...it's good to agree on something. I hope Siegelman files for a pardon, and gets one.

And I hope Manny writes about more people who needs pardons....people who don't have a voice.

[beerandjesus]

8. Because we need to look forward, not back.

[fasttense]

5. Because we are a country ruled by the whims of the elite.

No longer does law rule our lives in this country. Any law can be ignored if you have enough money to buy off judges. Just ask the Supreme Court.

[msanthrope]

7. It would help if someone would file an actual pardon request. I mean, I think

he was railroaded but the fact remains that one must actually file pardon paperwork in order to be considered for a pardon.

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Like the one Nixon filled out?

Regards,

Nixon-afficianado Manny

[msanthrope]

10. Had Nixon been in prison, he would have had to fill out a pardon request. BOP gets their say.

So do victims, etc.

You really want President Obama to act like Ford?

[msanthrope]

21. Oh dear lord....the Bureau of Prisons!!! nt

[MannyGoldstein]

22. Who does the BOP report to?

Does precedent, statute, or regulation exists that indicates that the BOP that ultimately reports to the President cannot release a pardoned inmate?

[msanthrope]

24. Manny....here's a thought. Before you put out your OP, did you perform any due diligence?

For example,

Did you google what a Presidential pardon entails?

Did you ascertain if the former governor had filed for a pardon?

Can you accurately give your readers the legal stance of the case?

It doesn't seem so, and that's disappointing, because I think that would be conducive to adult conversation.

Now....I have a challenge question for you. You can't google it. Do you accept my challenge? It will prove you are really invested in this case, and know quite a lot about it, if you can answer without googling.

[MannyGoldstein]

30. Sigh.

I guess readers will have to judge for themselves as to whether you're evading my question.

[msanthrope]

32. Oh...not evading your Socratic method so much as reminding you, gently, that if you really

want adult conversation, then I think you should do your adult readers the favor of providing actual information in your OPs, rather than philosophical wonderings followed by replies wherein your readers are expected to answer your queries.....

That's not how I prefer to be spoken to, as an adult. This particular OP I think highlights your style in a negative way because 1) a man's liberty is at stake, and 2) there is an actual, fairly dense legal case that you and I can discuss, but you don't seem to be familiar with it.

So, are you taking me up on my challenge question? Remember! No googling!!

[msanthrope]

25. I answered you upthread....and you haven't taken up my case knowledge challenge!

Manny...I know you are invested in this case and know a lot about it!

[whatchamacallit]

15. Because the creator of your name was a prophet n/t

[woo me with science]

16. Yup, just like criminal bankers aren't prosecuted,

but a guy who tried to identify them got sent up.

Bradley Birkenfeld, UBS Whistleblower, Finds Himself in Federal Prison
http://www.cnbc.com//id/41257962

Welcome to priorities under a corrupt, torturing, looting corporate oligarchy.






_______________________________


There is nothing more important right now than stopping corporate Democrats from shoving Hillary or another Wall Street tool down our throats as the Democratic nominee in 2016. If they do that, they ensure that this morral rot continues not just for two more years, but indefinitely, no matter which facade party of the oligarchy wins.

Hillary *means* more prosecutions of whistleblowers, more torture, renditions, warmongering, TPP, surveillance state, police state,

More soul-sucking apologism, mind-numbing propaganda, abetting the banks and criminals, corporate/MIC domination, and sending the soul of this nation into the sewer.

THIRD WAY GHOULS.....NOTHING IS BEYOND OUR REACH.

These atrocities, these sick priorities, are the fruits of Wall Street/MIC corruption, and Hillary is the poster child for more of the same. If you want continuation of the Wall Street/MIC cabal that breaks bones, rapes children in front of their parents, and impoverishes millions while helping both torturers *and* banking criminals hide evidence of their crimes, praising the torturers as "patriots," and imprisoning the whistleblowers......Hillary's the choice.)[/font size]

A paragraph from Chris Hedges' piece on Truthdig today that adroitly summarizes where we are.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025930017

Only CIA Agent Jailed for Torture Program Is Whistleblower Who Confirmed Its Existence
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025943291

I'm sorry Obama, those who sodomized Iraqi boys in front of their mothers, are NOT patriots
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5940281

Hillary Clinton's leading role in drafting the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101667554

Hillary Clinton and Trade Deals: That “Giant Sucking Sound”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016101761

Hillary Clinton Cheerleads for Biotech and GMOs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/112772326

Dissecting Hillary Clinton's Neocon Talking Points - Atlantic Interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209519

NYTimes notices Hillary's natural affinity toward the neocons.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025205645

Hillary Clinton, the unrepentant hawk
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024876898

More from Hillary Clinton's State Department: The fascistic TISA (Trade in Services Agreement)
http://m.thenation.com/blog/180572-grassroots-labor-uprising-your-bank

How Hillary Clinton's State Department sold fracking to the world
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251376647

Hillary Clinton Sides with NSA over Snowden Disclosures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101695441

On the NSA, Hillary Clinton Is Either a Fool or a Liar
http://m.thenation.com/article/180564-nsa-hillary-clinton-either-fool-or-liar

Corporate Warfare: Hillary Clinton admits role in Honduran coup aftermath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025601610#post29

The Bill and Hillary Clinton Money Machine Taps Corporate Cash
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025189257

Hillary's Privatization Plan: TISA kept more secret than the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014829628

Hillary Clinton criticizes Obama's foreign policy 'failure'; strongly defends Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014867136

Some of Hillary Clinton's statements on Social Security.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024379279

Hillary Clinton's GOLDMAN SACHS PROBLEM.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025049343

Ring of Fire: Hillary Clinton - The Perfect Republican Candidate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209285

How Americans Need Answers From Hillary Clinton On TPP, KXL, Wall St & More
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017181611

Hillary Clinton Left Out By Liberal Donor Club
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025809071

Why Wall Street Loves Hillary
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016106575

Hillary Clinton: Neocon-lite
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101684986

Interactive graphic of Hillary Clinton's connections to the Forbes top 400 (Follow link in post)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025824981#post9

[QC]

19. Some folks are more important than others. n/t

[woo me with science]

20. Business as usual in a corrupt, criminal oligarchy.

Priorities, priorities.

Intimidation of those who would reveal criminality is a high priority.

[2naSalit]

26. Reminds me of this...

[liberal_at_heart]

29. There is no excuse for this. No excuse for jailing a whistle blower and not a torturer.

Obama and his Justice Department own this. They decided not to prosecute the war criminals, and they decided to prosecute the whistle blower. These are very deliberate actions. This was no accident, and there is no excuse for it.

[msanthrope]

33. Well yes...as I noted above...the governor hasn't asked for a pardon. He should have his

attorneys submit the paperwork.

[polichick]

31. When a system is called out as dysfunctional, wrong, corrupt...

The messenger must be "killed" or the system righted. Too many are invested in - and making buttloads from - this dysfunctional, wrong, corrupt system.

[woo me with science]

34. kick