2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumGoodbye DU
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by mcar (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).
I stayed until the very end, but it's time to leave. Normally I wouldn't bother to create an OP like this as I'm sure most people don't care (I wouldn't tbh) but I have one last thing to say before signing off for good. I've been a supporter of Bernie Sanders since he announced his candidacy, and I came to this website because it was a place to talk about the campaign with like-minded people. At first it was great. I really enjoyed my time here last summer and was pleased to see so many others as passionate as I am about politics in America. However, as Bernie became more popular, and an actual threat to win the nomination, I noticed an increase in the number of outright hostile threads about him and his supporters. It quickly got to the point where coming to this board became significantly less enjoyable.
As the primary dragged on the vitriol from both sides only got worse, and I got the distinct impression that progressives aren't wanted here whatsoever. Worse, now that Hillary has officially won the nomination, some of the most spiteful posters on this board all of a sudden want to embrace Bernie and his supporters. I'm sorry, but you can't spend an entire year demonizing people only to expect them to shake your hand after you win. It's become abundantly clear that my views and those of other Bernie supporters are not wanted on this board. In some ways, it's a reflection of the Democratic Party right now.
So in an attempt to stay within the ToS, consider this constructive criticism of HRC and the Dem Party. If you really want party unity now and in the future, you need to listen to and embrace the Sanders wing. Yes, we're loud. Yes, we're passionate. We are both of those things because we *truly* believe in progressive ideals. Free college tuition. Single payer healthcare. A sane foreign policy. Environmental justice. Racial justice. Economic justice... The list goes on. Ignore progressives at your own peril.
I'm leaving because my experience on this site has turned sour over the last 9 months, and it's entirely because of certain posters who (frankly) take the progressive vote for granted. Goodbye, it's been an eye opener, and I wish you all the best of luck in the future.
-Herb
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Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)
ecstatic This message was self-deleted by its author.
book_worm
(15,951 posts)ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)And take all your "CONSTRUCTIVE" criticism (which people can still read in your journal) with you.
"This is who we nominated...more Clinton Foundation corruption (CNN)"
"Another video of the Nevada Convention. These can't be posted enough"
"Well this was unexpected. From The Telegraph: KKK Leader Endorses Hillary Clinton"
"I'm tired of race being used as a wedge issue in politics."
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)In the end, we all basically want much the same things, and now Bernie also feels the best path to achieving them lies with the election of Hillary Clinton.
We know that so far 90% of all Bernie's followers are with him in that, if not quite that high on DU. It's perfectly understandable if a break-off group of former Bernie followers who reject his call to help elect Hillary Clinton choose to seek a forum where they are once again in the majority.
I hope you find a long and comfortable home on a forum where most everyone feels as you do, HerbChestnut. As a matter of fact, I dropped in on one just yesterday to see how they were taking the convention so far, and, frankly, they could use some good bucking up.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Same with Clinton supporters.
The debate was more than lively and both sides here rolled out the tanks.
Your fatal flaw is in feeling progressives aren't welcome here. This is one of the best places on the Internet to communicate with other progressives.
Response to NCTraveler (Reply #3)
Post removed
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)
JudyM
(29,431 posts)The platform Clinton is running on is progressive. The party platform is progressive. I am a progressive.
I really don't care if people disagree with those statements. I've been politically active for some time and have no interest in debating whomever you are referring to about the definition of progressive.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)ever!
It seems like Bernie Sanders himself is no longer progressive enough for many of his "supporters"!
JudyM
(29,431 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)So Bernie had a positive impact on the direction of the party.
And now his supporters walk away from it? I don't get it.
JudyM
(29,431 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)till the election.
whopis01
(3,598 posts)I don't get why people love pushing this false theme further and further.
The vast majority of stalwart Sanders supporters are going to vote for Clinton in the general election.
The media loves to focus on a vanishing minority that makes for good headlines. Then others take it and run with it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/25/the-democratic-convention-is-chaotic-the-democratic-base-isnt/
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)I should have said "some". Sorry.
calimary
(82,754 posts)Those "concessions"? Actually, nobody HAD TO grant any of them. Numerically, if you combine the DNC committee members and the Hillary committee members, that group decisively outnumbered the Bernie committee members. So they could easily have overruled any motion, shut everything down, and refused to discuss or negotiate or compromise or try to seek any improvements. That did not happen. Many changes were made. Bernie had lots of good news to deliver to his supporters about how much of an impact his group had on the platform committee, and how many changes they effected. Several rounds of that, as a matter of fact. He even said it's the most progressive platform ever. I'd take him at his word on that. If anybody'd be able to assess that, he would.
chwaliszewski
(1,515 posts)if Bernie had not run?
merrily
(45,251 posts)wanted Bernie's help in getting his supporters to vote for Hillary.
I'm glad we now have the most progressive platform ever. I'm not sure what that means in practical terms, but I suppose it's better than a platform that is not progressive. Only time will tell if it actually translates to legislation. However, I am not willing to play like this was some act of pure generosity. It was a quid pro quo and a nonbinding one at that.
Why nonbinding, progressive planks even had to be wrung out of Democrats with negotiation and a quid pro quo when most Democrats claim to be progressive is another issue.
Demsrule86
(69,919 posts)I don't care what the platform says...if the House stays in GOP hands most of it won't happen.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I also don't appreciate your assumption that I don't work to elect people I want to see in office. However, let's be real about that, too.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2308739
merrily
(45,251 posts)primary supporters were very quick to point out when any of the Bernie primary supporters tried to give Bernie credit. Apparently feeling even a second's worth of gratification for the year we've put in trying to accomplish leftist goals was too awful for some of them to take.
Apparently, campaign rhetoric and political platforms are only for suckers? And history is irrelevant because the last thing someone said on a topic erases everything that came before it. So, I guess you can't base your voting decision on anything but looks--but that would be misogynist.
I've got it. Take out a quarter and flip it. Heads, vote Democratic. Tails, vote Democratic.
See, and you all thought I learned nothing from DU this year.
Cha
(300,943 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)
sanctimony isn't a progressive value
JudyM
(29,431 posts)renewables, for example. Sorry you can't see that.
Response to JudyM (Reply #79)
geek tragedy This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #81)
JudyM This message was self-deleted by its author.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Or are you talking about Trump?
JudyM
(29,431 posts)extent.
okasha
(11,573 posts)I think Hillary will successfully push legislation comparable to LBJ's.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Look at the composition of Congress when Obama was inaugurated.
We are not going to have majorities like that plus the White House simultaneously for a long time--and we were told those majorities were not enough, even for something as moderate as a public option because of the blue dogs and "moderates." So, how many liberal Senators do you think we need to pass Great Society or New Deal legislation? Seventy? Eighty? Let's make it easy and say 68.
Now that the "Solid South" is no longer solidly Democratic, (and "liberal" was made a dirty word), how long do you think it will be before we get 68 liberal Senators while we also have the House and the White House? Especially when the DNC, DSCC and DCCC (1) back incumbents and (2) avoid liberal candidates to fill vacancies?
I disagree with you about what Hillary would do, but we don't even have to go there. Just please think about the rest of this post.
okasha
(11,573 posts)A Senate majority is within reach this year, with gains in the House. We can thank both Hillary's coattails and the spectacular self-destruction of the Republican Party for that.
I think Hillary's political skills are on a par with Johnson's. She knows how to persuade and how and when to jawbone.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I had 3, really. Dying young, becoming a nun, or getting arrested for possession while in Bermuda because the last time I was there, the women's prison had an ocean view. FYI: San Antonio's prison is practically atop the river and Boston's used to have a river view, but someone bought it and made a hotel out of it. Location. Location. Location.
Anyway....
We will get 68 Senators, the House and the Oval Office all at the same time in the next few years? Hope you're right.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Presumably a Democratic Senate would not override a Democratic Presidential veto.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Response to okasha (Reply #112)
TheBlackAdder This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ned Flanders
(233 posts)And you thinks she's committed?
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)of the perspectives you could possibly think of.
Long term impacts, too. She didn't get where she is by being impulsive.
okasha
(11,573 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Same for Keystone.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-finally-comes-out-against-keystone-pipeline
So, some confusion as to her positions may be understandable.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Part of DU defines "progressive" one way, the same way Hillary does, and another part of DU thinks it's something like a synonym for beliefs far more akin to those held by 1960s liberals. That is the chief reason I try to stay away from "progressive" except when I use it in this kind of discussion.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)to reach. I don't mean jokes about whiskey or parsimony or bravery in battle, but nationality and lineage.
The problem I see with a lot of DU tussles about "progressive" and "real" Democrat" is definitional.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2308726
I wish people would stop arguing about it or, if they must, I wish they would at least define terms.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)It is darned near half of the party. That's a pretty big "wing". "Wing" seems like yet another of those dismissive terms used by the "third way" types to marginalize all of us who believe strongly about the things Sanders talked about (fair economic system, elimination of one-sided trade agreements, funding the commons properly, etc)
Demsrule86
(69,919 posts)And Hillary is all that stands between Us and Trump...who I am sure in not progressive and probably a criminal in bed with the Russian mob and Putin.
merrily
(45,251 posts)in the last year slamming and mocking the left of the Democratic Party and mischaracterizing it as far left, radical left, etc.
Moreover, single payer, TPP and other things that this board would have condemned under a Republican a decade ago are considered far, radical left.
The desire to silence and censor people is over the top as well, and that is not liberal, either.
Until recently, I had two hide my entire time here. One was for failing to include the sarcasm emote (I kid you not) and the other I knew I would get. Saying fu to a poster seemed worth it, though. (Now I love him.) Then in a few days, I got three, one of which was for linking to an essay I had written on another board. Supposedly, I did that not because the essay was relevant to a discussion I was having (it was) but because I was trying to drive traffic to the other board. wtf? If I link to relevant article in Huffpo, is that because I am trying to drive posting traffic elsewhere? Obviously, I was wearing a sandwich board with a target on both sides. AFAIK, I still am. However, although my jury likelihood plummeted from 100% to 40%, I am getting almost as many jury calls now as I always have. That says a lot about the desire to censor.
It's no accident that most Sanders supporters have left this board, even though it is the most active "left" board on the net and it has the best and fastest software I've accessed in 12 years of posting. Even three years ago, some of my friends left voluntarily to post at Discussionist because there was less censorship of their left views there.
If you define progressive as a set of principles, goals or whatever, this board may not be for you.
However, if you define progressive as nearly unconditional loyalty to the Democratic Party and always praising Democratic politicians and their goals, this board was tailor made for you. Literally made for you.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)as consistently running down anyone not named Sanders or Warren, then we have very different views of what constitutes progressive.
merrily
(45,251 posts)What a contribution you've made to DU, America and political discourse in general!
You must be proud.
I hope that at least it made you feel good, for then it would have at least served some purpose.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)And my post was sincere as well. 
merrily
(45,251 posts)How could I, when your post did zero other than that?
pangaia
(24,324 posts)
PoliticalMalcontent
(449 posts)I know why DU exists. It exists solely to help the democratic party. I generally love the democratic party. I see myself as a progressive-liberal sort though, and I fall more in line with your first progressive definition than the second, 'loyalty above all else' definition. When those you should be simpatico with start doing things you disagree with, do you stay with them, or do you follow your heart (I.E. principles)?
I don't know where I'm going to be in relation to DU coming up. It's pretty sickening when I try to make a post trying to get people to 'see' from another person's perspective, and all they do is roll their eyes, or some such in a demeaning fashion. It's child-like and completely disrespectful. Perhaps this divide is caused by people not even attempting to see from another person's perspective, but instead just hunkering down into their own little thought processes. I've posted threads which I have felt were completely valid that ended locked, perhaps because they weren't necessarily shining a 100% positive light on the democratic party. I'm a big believer in seeing things as they are, not how you want them to be. So... you take the good with the bad and make your judgments accordingly. My philosophy: more information is better.
I understand this is Skinner's site, and he can run it as he pleases, but that doesn't take the sting out of getting posts locked down that I felt were probably in the clear as being fair, balanced, informative, and not even critical of Clinton herself. (Edit: Seriously, it had to do with search engine algorithms.)
So... Perhaps in time I will join Herb despite the fact that my vote is nearly 100% sure to go to Clinton. I can't imagine a Trump White House. I also... just... at times have difficulty with the nature of how this forum works. "Cheer on Clinton or shut the hell up " type mentality. It's similar to religion in a certain way, and certainly some people here are just as fanatical about Clinton as others are about their religion. That's a major turn-off for me. Fanaticism usually foregoes logic.
Anyway, thank you again for your very excellent post. You touched on a lot of issues I have had to deal with internally here.
In closing, driving thoughtful people away does not make for a better community. I will miss Herb and the numerous others whom have taken leave over the past few months.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Let me get a technicality out of the way, just in case you are not aware. A hidden or a removed post happens because you said something a jury did not like. A locked thread happens because the thread breaks a forum rule, in which case, you can re-post in another forum, or is meta. The problem with locked threads is that the discussion can go on for hours before the lock. I wish they would just move the thread to the correct forum, but Skinner said that doesn't work well, either. I have no idea why a post about search algorithms would be offensive. If it was removed recently, you can appeal to Skinner.
Yes, DU is a board formed to help elect Democrats. Posters add value to a board, so I don't think a board owner has a "right" be wholly arbitrary about removing posts and banning. However, the terms of service are clear on the electing Democrats issue and we join knowing that. When things get very arbitrary, it's probably a partisan jury not caring enough about the board to try to do a fair job. We used to have a little more leeway in the Bernie Sanders Group, though it was trolled by alerters, but now, jurors don't know if a post has been posted in a group or not.
In the end, it's whether you enjoy posting here or not. If not, there are board that were not formed for the purpose of electing Democrats. This board has the best and fastest software I've used and the most posters. Also, nothing prevents you from posting on more than one board. You may be able to have everything you want in one day, just not all on the same board.
Best wishes, whatever you decide.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It was in the replies before you typed that out.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I expressed my feelings and experiences and those of people who confided in my about leaving DU.
If you feel as though that your responding to something I said about why I and others I know feel as we do is dispositive, that would be clueless.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Literally addressed all aspects of your reply.
Hope things get a little brighter for you.
DU is the best board on the net to communicate with progressives, in my opinion. Love the progressive crowd here.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Realizing the left and the right of the Democratic party define "progressive" doesn't sadden me in the least; and, in general, things are very bright for me.
Thanks anyway!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)
One of the best GBCW ops ever. Seems they have really brought an overwhelming number of progressives here together. A thing of beauty.
merrily
(45,251 posts)primary ended.
I have not read through enough of the thread to see if people are together, as in reacting similarly, or not, but I have noticed some self deletes.
I find grave dancing distasteful, whether it's a poster leaving a board or someone who has actually passed.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)When the list of reasons given are dishonest and detached from reality.
Seems a majority do.
I still haven't gave danced here. I pointed out their seriously flawed thought process and did so in a respectful manner.
That's how it's done.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I think it's pointlessly piling on to someone who already feels bad enough to leave, even if I disagree with his or her reasons for feeling bad. Either "best wishes" or silence is more than enough, IMO.
If they come back and misbehave, then get on him, her or it (deferring to the fact that they have developed bot posters, literally bots).
That's how it's done.
No, that's only how you think it should be done.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The distinction is between fact and fiction, not opinion as you keep pointing toward. The distinction is huge.
I'm addressing the op, not future possibilities with them based off assumptions.
merrily
(45,251 posts)
one_voice
(20,043 posts)because they couldn't say whatever they wanted about Hillary & anyone that supports her. I've read the board you're part of . You guys ran this board before the new rules were put in place. I, an O'Malley person was very uncomfortable here. I stopped posting for a while.
I would post a positive story about Bernie--you guys loved that. Post one about Hillary--I was shit on. And now, I'm all in for making sure Trump isn't elected. I would be putting a Bernie sign in my yard if he was our nominee.
The rules of DU (supporting our nominee) aren't new. You knew they rules when you signed up. Just as if I went over to your beloved jpr I'd have to follow your rules. One of which was you weren't allowed to say Bernie lost--you had to say Hillary & co. stole the election. Guess censorship is in the eye of the beholder.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I would post a positive story about Bernie--you guys loved that. Post one about Hillary--I was shit on.
That happened to EVERYONE on both sides, if you call disagreeing with the article in the opening post or with a comment the OP added to it sh*tting on the OP. It happened with Replies, too. I didn't post that many OP's outside the Bernie Group and I was called everything but a child of God. We all were.
Just as if I went over to your beloved jpr I'd have to follow your rules.
My JPR? My rules?
You need to get your facts straight on those points. I was not an owner, an admin, a mod or a rulemaker. I was a poster, same as I am here. I respectfully decline to take responsibility for JPR rules or DU's rules.
However, you misstate that rule. It was not about saying Bernie lost because he had not lost yet. The rule was adopted--and rarely honored--because concern trolls had invaded the board. The idea was that no troll would bring themselves to post that before expressing concern that Bernie was going to lose the primary. If you recall, that rule was announced for the first time around the time that Brock announced he had hired a million bucks worth of internet trolls. Whether those two things were cause and effect or simply related in time, the concern troll invasion happened. It could just as easily have been people from, um, other boards who joined JPR under different screen names than they use, um, elsewhere.
If you read the rule, perhaps you also read who had composed it--Manny Goldstein. Whether you ever found him funny or not, he is well known for going over the top in an attempt to be humorous.
The rules of DU (supporting our nominee) aren't new. You knew they rules when you signed up.
Yes, I did. I post *a lot* and I have not been banned. That should tell you something about whether or not I obey the rules, at least as I understand them.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)I didn't say you owned jpr--I used 'your' in the sense the board you posted on. The board you linked to often here as an alternative to DU. You obviously have an affinity for it-hence the 'your'. Calm down, jeez.
The rule:
This not only captures the truth, it's something that a Brock-troll won't write, of course.
Failure to use this phrasing or something very close when speculating that Bernie might not win the nomination will result in a deleted post. The second time it happens, the poster will be banned.
This rule is agreed to by all mods and admins
jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?9700-New-rule-for-posts-on-jpr
Where was I mistaken?
I never said you didn't understand the rules.
My point about rules; is the censorship claim that's thrown around. MOST if not all private sites have rules you have to follow. Seems **some** people are only concerned with being 'censored' here.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I used 'your' in the sense the board you posted on.
Suuuuure you did. BTW, I did not suggest any board as an alternative to DU unless someone had said they were leaving DU anyway. People can post on more than one board.
About the rule: "Where was I mistaken?"
You said:
One of which {JPR rules} was you weren't allowed to say Bernie lost
My prior post explained about the timing of the rule reason for it, and now that I see it again, so does the rule. "any speculation about Bernie possibly not winning the Democratic nomination IOW, he had not lost yet. "
The primary had not ended. The rule was about an invasion of concern trolling saying Bernie was going to lose the primary or something like that and, as I said, it was because the board had been invaded by trolls. It was not about preventing anyone from acknowledging he had lost after he actually lost.
I never said you didn't understand the rules.
Huh? I didn't say you had claimed I don't understand the rules.
This was your comment:
The rules of DU (supporting our nominee) aren't new. You knew they rules when you signed up.
This was my response.
Yes, I did. I post *a lot* and I have not been banned. That should tell you something about whether or not I obey the rules, at least as I understand them.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)Suuuuure you did. BTW, I did not suggest any board as an alternative to DU unless someone had said they were leaving DU anyway. People can post on more than one board.
I have no reason to lie. That was exactly what I meant.
I'm done now. Have a wonderful day.
merrily
(45,251 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)still_one
(93,985 posts)"if there was any cosmic justice, she would stroke out"
merrily
(45,251 posts)The stuff on hillarysupporters.com about Sanders and his supporters was just as bad or worse.
Squinch
(51,513 posts)all the people over there who are vowing never to vote for Hillary would stay over there and stop coming here to troll.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Besides, it's not fair to hold anyone responsible for every post on a board, just because he or she posts on it.
Do you want to be held responsible for every post on DU?
Bullying DIC is unseemly and bullying her for things she did not post is outrageous.
If what appears on JPR distresses you so much, there's a very easy fix.
Squinch
(51,513 posts)What I have seen of JPR is that it has members who are astonishingly sexist, and everyone supports their sexism. Its members routinely trash DU and DUers, and they are vocal about the fact that they would like to sabotage Hillary's candidacy.
And then they all come over here and troll, and they expect that we will all turn our heads away from the fact that they have been trashing DU and everything it stands for elsewhere.
No one is bullying anyone, by the way, in commenting about a site that is in direct opposition to the goals of DU. We do it for Freeperville, and we do it for Pinergulch. And no doubt we will continue to occasionally monitor these sites and others. It is useful to know what the opposition is doing.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Posters there plotted together to get the posts of DUers hidden and checked out topics they were planning to post here to discredit Sanders.
Screen caps were posted here. After enough times, the admin created hidden forums. However, enough was already on this board that no one can bullshit anyone who saw those screen caps about what that board is like.
Yes, when poster after poster bashes DIC, it's bullying or ganging up or piling on or whatever term you want to use. If you can't see that, I'm sorry for you. And calling what you guys have been posted to DIC merely "commenting on a site" is dishonest.
I don't know who is the "we" that monitors other sites that aggravate them. I sure don't. If you want to do that, fine, but that is a separate issue from ganging up on a DUer for posting on a board you don't agree with.
Squinch
(51,513 posts)And the Pinergulchers did post that unfortunate post here time after time after time.
But the site is extremely positive and supportive of Hillary, and I welcome you to go over there and check it out. You will not find any death wishes for any candidates, no one will be calling anyone "c**t" or whore while other members cheer them on, no one will be dissing any DUers.
And no one is bashing DIC. From what I can see, people are posting factual things about Pinergulch. If that makes you upset, perhaps it is those facts that you are having a hard time with.
merrily
(45,251 posts)What facts? That shit did not go down at Hillary supporters.com? That it was only one poster doing the things I cited? That one DU poster after another ganging up to harass DIC because she posts at another site is not bullying?
No, I don't have a hard time with facts, but I sure can't say the same for others.
Squinch
(51,513 posts)
DUers WILL tend to say something when a poster is shilling for a site whose goals are in direct opposition to the goals of DU.
No doubt you will continue spinning persecutions while defending that site whose goals are in direct opposition to the goals of DU, but there is nothing new in this argument, so I'll bid you a lovely day.
merrily
(45,251 posts)If you all had not ganged up on DIC post after post, attacking her for posting there, that would have been it. So, give yourselves some credit for the nice things she said about JPR in order to defend herself.
Squinch
(51,513 posts)on DU, do you think no one would have said anything?
Same thing.
Anyway, as I say, have a lovely day.
merrily
(45,251 posts)When I say "See you there," I am not encouraging someone to go anywhere. I am stating a fact, because I already know where that person is going. And, as I said, it was all of four words, until DIC got ganged up on. If it was so important to you that she not defend JPR, maybe next time, don't pounce.
I don't think it's the same thing as FREEP, either, but I am not having that argument.
TheBlackAdder
(28,515 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I'm also catching a lot of shit in this thread for supporting JPR. But I still support them.
TheBlackAdder
(28,515 posts).
We all know what the JPR reference is insinuating.
.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)-I don't have a good sense of what you think of JPR and its members.
-I am a member of JPR, and I like the site
-I hope that the OP will drop in and check out JPR
-I did not give a backhanded compliment; I gave a sincere goodbye and an invitation
-Go find my name in this thread. In every, EVERY instance, you'll see me defending JPR.
-No really, look at my posts in this thread.
Ned Flanders
(233 posts)Sorry, off topic. Rock on Disgustipated!
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)And don't apologize for being off topic. You've been kinder to me than most have in this thread. Some other respondents have me presiding over Black Mass with Donald Trump at JPR before the big infant barbecue, and this after I haven't said a single negative thing in this thread. I appreciate your post, and I'd sign off with something Ned-Flander-esque, but I've got nothing. Have a good night
merrily
(45,251 posts)would happen if two people were conversing IRL.
Black Adder is good peoples. You are, too.
merrily
(45,251 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)"Generally, a backhanded compliment doesn't come with a pair of brass knuckles."
I don't know how you could have expressed that though more perfectly. I am in awe.
I just may have to bookmark and Melania-ize that sucker (I'll credit you. I just wanted to coin "Melania" as a verb.) 
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)
griffi94
(3,756 posts)gaspee
(3,231 posts)most of us have been Bernie supporters for years and years and years - and yes, even us Hilary voters.
Candidates win, candidates lose - selfish people are sore losers. Look at the big picture and work toward the future - but no, some people have to go pout.
JudyM
(29,431 posts)about softening that edge being necessary for unity. Comments like yours, a clear putdown and insult about "pouting" slow down the process of unity.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)The clear implication that any progressive would agree with him, and supported Bernie. Neither of thise things are necessarily true for every progressive, and I admit a little disdain for those with that attitude. It was part of the problem throughout the primary.
JudyM
(29,431 posts)positions are more progressive. Progressive Dems like me were thrilled that these issues were brought front and center, and the critical element of moving quickly, e.g., on fossil fuels.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Just be uase we agree on where we wnat to end up, does not mean we agree on the way to get there. Let's leave it at that.
merrily
(45,251 posts)"progressive" means. Medicare for All, Keystone, TPP, so-called "third parties" drones, extraordinary rendition, what "preserving" Social Security specifically means are just a few of the subjects on which people who call themselves progressive disagree quite strongly; and the areas of disagreement are not "nothingburger" issues.
The sooner we face, at a minimum, that all people who call themselves progressives don't agree on all issues, even all important issues, the better, IMO.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I have not met a single person I agree with on every issue.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,508 posts)JudyM
(29,431 posts)voting for Clinton. Berniecrats are those of us who generally share Bernie's vision/priorities.
obamanut2012
(26,749 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)"New Deal Democrats?" If not, what distinguishes those terms from "Berniecrat?"
brush
(55,427 posts)"corrupt" to "corporate whore" and many other vile names all throughout the campaign so your fit of pique seems a bit of "can dish it out but can't take it" IMO.
Sanders lost fair and square. It's time to unify. If you can't, you're doing the right thing by leaving.
merrily
(45,251 posts)From the OP:
"As the primary dragged on the vitriol from both sides only got worse,"
brush
(55,427 posts)Syndrome stuff and the throwing dollars at Clinton's motorcade, just to name a couple more.
merrily
(45,251 posts)pedophile enabler, among other things and Bernie supporters being banned, not just sent on enforced vacation, but banned. IIRC, the Stockholm stuff to which you referred consisted of two OP's with the poster being banned on the second. The other kind of thing was daily, and yes, on both sides, with each side thinking they were getting by far the worst of it.
Throwing dollars at the Clinton motorcade happened in California, so I am not sure what that has to do with the OP's memory.
brush
(55,427 posts)anti-Clinton attack pieces.
It was totally out of hand. This place became "Sanders Underground".
And then he lost.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)You've been here a year!
Don't worry, we'll be here working hard to save you from Trump, even if you won't.
jalan48
(14,069 posts)Let's keep up the fight at our local level, change will come.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)
RelativelyJones
(898 posts)Don't know why you are so sure you own the progressive mantel, but good luck.
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2016/07/vote-for-whoever-hell-you-want.html
major debacle
(508 posts)I can no longer bear your scorn. I am going to a better place... Jackpine Radicals
LibraLiz1973
(8,197 posts)Ridiculous
Thats exactly what will happen if people like you are so petty and selfish that you don't vote for her.
I'll personally be blaming people like you if Trump is ever in a position of power and we're at war.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Hi, snoticles. Good to see you again.
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)She couldn't win a nomination without help from the DNC???
LibraLiz1973
(8,197 posts)You're a one trick pony.
It's so pathetically obvious by every single thing you post that you're against her.
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)don't get me wrong, I vote in the General Election, but a Democrat has not won the General Presidential Election in Texas since Jimmy Carter in 1976! Forty years. So when I hear that the DNC Leadership has decided to fuck with my vote just like the republicans, I'm as angry as I am disappointed.
kissinger is a war criminal, not someone Democrats should be seeking praise and "wisdom" from. Is Megyn Kelly "a superb journalist" because she knows Santa Claus is white or is it because she knew he key to success at faux news was "slut shamming" Sandra Fluke? The Iraq war vote... how long will that be a "mistake" now that the primary is over? TPP-Terry McAuliffe prematurely let the cat out of the bag that Clinton's view on TPP is going to undergo some changes. Clinton wants a 50 State strategy to ellect more Democrats to the House and Senate? Great! What's that? She named disgraced crony debbie wasserman schultz as the honorary Chair? Why not it isn't like she fucked up completely last time she was chair of a political organization... oh wait a minute.
The only approved one trick pony here is Clinton worship. Sorry I'm not going to join the cult.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)1. Nowhere did the OP suggest they were not voting for Hillary.
2. David Axelrod said it best: If a candidate loses, it's on the candidate . At some point the candidate has to close the deal to win an election.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I heard Deval Patrick and Barack Obama think he was amateur hour.
Ignore the sarcasm. It must be in my DNA. Great post. Thanks.
Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts) 
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Sorry that it's so difficult for you to take.
GusBob
(7,324 posts)good luck in high school I am sure you will do great!,,
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)You are living in an alternative reality. Bernie AND HILLARY just helped forge a VERY progressive platform.
If all this isn't enough for you and all you can do is take your ball and go home, then you are welcome to do so.
But don't you dare say that we are taking the progressive vote for granted. That is outside the realm of reality.
And if you do anything to help the subhuman monster who is Trump get elected, then enjoy your country as it smolders in the ashes of Trump and the INSANE TeaCrazy party.
merrily
(45,251 posts)concepts.
ismnotwasm
(42,250 posts)That is an awful thing to say.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Don't bother asking me for links. But I will go through just the post to which I replied.
BERNIE SUPPORTS HILLARY!!! 90% of BERNIE SUPPORTERS ARE WITH HILLARY!!!
You are living in an alternative reality. Bernie AND HILLARY just helped forge a VERY progressive platform.
If all this isn't enough for you and all you can do is take your ball and go home, then you are welcome to do so.
But don't you dare say that we are taking the progressive vote for granted. That is outside the realm of reality.
And if you do anything to help the subhuman monster who is Trump get elected, then enjoy your country as it smolders in the ashes of Trump and the INSANE TeaCrazy party.
Four references in a five line post and that post is not atypical.
ismnotwasm
(42,250 posts)So no worries. As a general rule I stay out of these kind of threads, but I like the poster, and would not see them so maligned. So stop it.
I debated whether engage, as it kicks a thread, but what the hell, It had over 300 responses anyway and I haven't had my morning coffee .
merrily
(45,251 posts)said about those who think differently than the poster. It's one thing now that we have a nominee, it was more offensive while Senator Sanders was still a contender. If pointing out to a poster how their posts read = maligning the poster, then maybe the poster should stop and think. I posted one accurate sentence and was ready to move on, anyway. And I need coffee, too.
(Good for you for sticking up for your friend.)
ismnotwasm
(42,250 posts)I don't agree, but I have one cup down, and am ready to start my day
DanTex
(20,709 posts)--Bernie Sanders
LongtimeAZDem
(4,508 posts)
uponit7771
(90,670 posts)
Contrary1
(12,629 posts)The guy you and many others here couldn't hurl too many insults at, along with his supporters for the past year?
PS: My kids feel the same way, so yeah, I can look them in the eye.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)that the Democrats nominated the most progressive candidate in generation and have the most progressive party platform in decades - well, don't let the door slap your ass on the way out.
I'm fucking sick & tired of phony "progressives" and their insincere "concern" trashing Democrats, the Democratic Party and our Democratic nominee.
DemonGoddess
(4,664 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)😂😂😂😂😂
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
TheBlackAdder
(28,515 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)
Stuckinthebush
(10,935 posts)Well said.
CAG
(1,820 posts)And she's placed a couple of Thurgood Marshalls and RBG's on the Supreme Court, and increased the minimum wage, and continued the longest peacetime economic expansion, and expanded affordable healthcare, and kept unemployment down, and increased overall wages, and helped win back senate seats and house seats, and governor seats, and raised taxes on trust fund babies, and balanced the budget, we in the real world will welcome those back who want nothing less than socialist Utopias to gripe more at us.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I am so fucking over those who refuse to actually SEE reality.
Welcome to the real world.
This is exactly why even if we "win", we lose.
CAG
(1,820 posts)Onlooker
(5,636 posts)I think most of us don't take the progressive vote for granted and see ourselves as progressive. The Sanders people rejected the progressive Hillary voters as much as the Hillary voters rejected the progressive Sanders voters. But, now, I think most people are uniting, but a few are still focused on the discord. There will always be that on both sides, but most of us would enthusiastically support the nominee regardless of who it was.
merrily
(45,251 posts)In life we have to listen to what people say, let them know we heard it and address it in some way--not necessarily agreeing--before we tell them to do what we would prefer they do. Very little of that is going on at DU. People could say their dog is sick and the reply would be, support Democrats. It's insulting. We're all adults.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I'm sorry that you feel it was too much. Seemed similar to '08 to me.
MrScorpio
(73,676 posts)Have fun.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Things are finally getting back to normal where it is okay to support the democratic party here.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(32,710 posts)
Maru Kitteh
(28,495 posts)I dunno. Sometimes folks are too delicate to survive spirited primaries I guess. Goodness knows there was plenty of mud flying from all sides. Some can't handle it when everyone doesn't agree with every damn thing they say, fall in love with their pretty pony, and they don't get their way on everything. And then can't handle it if people are nice to them? 
That's weird.
Politics is rough. It's not for everyone, that's for sure.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Without the ability to keep fighting it, they have no more use for DU
Response to bravenak (Reply #120)
G_j This message was self-deleted by its author.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I think people focus way too much attention on posters and get too emotional.
Response to bravenak (Reply #273)
G_j This message was self-deleted by its author.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)People decide for themselves if they want to be here
G_j
(40,402 posts)have a great day
LexVegas
(6,261 posts) 
onehandle
(51,122 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)
TDale313
(7,820 posts)You experienced DU during the primaries, which are always tough but also vigorous. IMO this one was particularly difficult. And then we transition to general election mode, and he sites rules reasonably require not actively advocating against the nominee. This season was the first primary with the jury system in place, and I think that led to some issues as well. It can be bumpy, but I'd encourage you to check back after November if you feel like it because it can be a wonderful site, and you certainly did not see it at its finest.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I think there is something else at play here but you have provided an excellent message for all of those who joined during the primary. It's easier to devolve during the primaries than to transition out of them. Tough to grasp if you haven't been through it before.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)sarae
(3,284 posts)"Yes, we're loud. Yes, we're passionate. We are both of those things because we *truly* believe in progressive ideals."
You want to call us all empty shills next? Does it make you feel morally superior?
Both sides have insulted each other during the primary. I'm willing to put away differences and I'm glad there are others who feel the same way. Sorry you don't. I refuse to blame all Sanders supporters for the actions of a few; it's too bad you can't return the favor.
DemonGoddess
(4,664 posts)LibraLiz1973
(8,197 posts)NAILED IT
liberal N proud
(60,531 posts)It was with a Bernie supporter who is now with Hillary (I believe) who said the Bernie Or Bust crowds do think they are superior to everyone else.
That says a lot. If they feel superior, then they are dismissive of everyone who does not agree with them and will not compromise. I find people like that impossible to deal with.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)now go wallow in your own irrelevancy.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)
Please take that in the lighthearted way it was meant. I thought it and laughed.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)
Let's start a sticks and stones chant!!!!
merrily
(45,251 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I love this place.
merrily
(45,251 posts)five times a day.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)that you're a member of a message board that tolerates the use of the c-word. Ye who live in glass houses...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The b word too. They love that over there
LongtimeAZDem
(4,508 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,495 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)still_one
(93,985 posts)garbage such as "if there was any cosmic justice, Hillary would stroke out"
Your pride speaks volumes
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)JPR is a site full of good people having good discussion. I don't really care one way or another what you may think about the site, its members, or my support of it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Say hi to the little Trumpkins over there for us, they're your peeps now.
P.S. Have Omarosa and Busey registered there yet?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I've been here too long to walk away, but I am excited to be a part of the growing progressive community at www.jackpineradicals.com.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)So progressive.
https://www.google.com/search?q=hildebeast+site:jackpineradicals.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
https://www.google.com/search?q=Bitch+site:jackpineradicals.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
Trump has nothing on that crowd.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #154)
Post removed
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Hating Hillary is a wingnut value, not a progressive one.
It is the best thing to happen to this site, as all of the emoprog Trumpkins are playing there now.
Mika
(17,751 posts)JPR will sort things out over time, I'm sure.
IMO, the last few DU alert/jury iterations have been very discouraging and frustrating.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)There are some profane posts at JPR, some ill-considered statements. But I won't be browbeaten into signing on to this notion that the site is comprised of a bunch of bad people; it's not.
Thanks.
Mika
(17,751 posts)I'm too busy engaging to be rehashing the same stuff over and over.
The constant alerting has made most fora here intolerabable.
Nice to see you too.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Regularly wish I'll will up to death upon others. Embrace racists and bigots with open arms. Promote Trump as a better alternative to Clinton. The list goes on.
There are active posters there I'm fond of. One still posts here as well. For the most part, the rest are backwash.
Note to jury. My only mention of duers was in stating my fondness for two people at another site that I know are members here as well. The rest of my comments are clearly directed at a hate site. Zero commentary about du and its members outside of fondness for them.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)That's a new one for me.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I will bump this in the morning with the facts I mentioned.
Binary doesn't mean what you think it means.
A simpleton you are not. I have no doubts about that.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)handful of those posts. That's true of DU, and of JPR. Have a good night.
still_one
(93,985 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)still_one
(93,985 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)places a higher value on less censorship than does DU. The person who has been most involved with that board since it was only an idea two people know about is bisexual. I am not outing anyone: It's always been in the DU profile of that poster. I have not seen the posts to which you refer, but I don't think she would allow anything awful to be said about orientation, even with the difference in atmosphere there.
If another board distresses you that much, there's a very easy fix. However, I don't think it's fair to gang up on DIC to harangue DIC about posts that are not hers.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)They are the hateful bigots.
I plan to keep working to change their hateful hearts and minds one at a time.
That sites censorship is set on extreme.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I plan to keep working to change their hateful hearts and minds one at a time.
You are not going to do that by ganging up on DIC--unless you are implying that DIC is a hateful bigot.
That sites censorship is set on extreme.
Some might say the same about DU's, but in the other direction. In either case, it's the prerogative of the board owner(s) to set the rules. Again, if you don't like it, just don't read there. Frankly, I find the obsession some DUers seem to have with that board a little creepy.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)
You may be beholden to ME though! Should I check
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Donald Trump.
Enjoy hanging with the Trumpkins over at that hate site.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I don't think you'd be very receptive.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)they'd be banned for violating site rules.
Half your members are Trumpkins who use phrases like "the Hildebeast" and "Lock her up."
You have found a place that suits you much better than this place. Good luck in trying to make America Great Again.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)And I believe I'll continue to do as I see fit.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)That includes thinly disguised concern trolling.
Just like advocating for her is banned at the emoprog Trumpkin site.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Did you think I've been bursting at the seams to hide my support of Donald Effing Trump? Do you believe that I've been a deep undercover operative here for more than 15 years? Please do go ahead and tell me what you believe motivates me, who you think I am. This is getting fascinating.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Just like the folks at JPR who think Hillary seduced and murdered Vince Foster.
https://www.google.com/search?q=vince+foster+site:jackpineradicals.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
Solid group of progressives there
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)how it is that you know I want Clinton to lose. You made a flat statement of fact; now it's time to make good on it.
Maru Kitteh
(28,495 posts)So ya know. Well done sparky.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)discussion board is like going onto a BLM site and linking to stormfront.
Perhaps you guys are getting a signing bonus for every disgruntled little soul you suck from here?
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)It's on the same level as DI & free republic don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)at that hate site and he'd be greeted with open arms.
Bernie Sanders, posting anonymously, would be banned as a "Hillbot."
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)https://www.google.com/search?q=Cunt+site:jackpineradicals.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
Misogynist cesspool of a hate site.
betsuni
(26,630 posts)Bernie Sanders wouldn't last much longer, either.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,840 posts)when another 20 posts were made to the thread where that happened, and not a single person objected to it. The person who said that was a long-standing DUer, too.
I think the problem with the posters on that site is they are all self-centered. They have decided what is right, and the moment any politician deviates from that, they are cast into the ever-increasing list of 'bad' people they can say anything about. That's not progress. They don't have a concept of what a 'party' is, or that you need, in life as well as politics, to work with people who have similar, but not identical, views to yourself.
stonecutter357
(12,746 posts) jpr is is not a progressive website.snooper2
(30,151 posts)They banned me after ONE post!
Could you get with your peeps and get me hooked up again please! I was going to have some serious fun
Demsrule86
(69,919 posts)That site seems intent on throwing the election to Trump which destroys all progressive policy for a generation.
Maru Kitteh
(28,495 posts)
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)Channel it into your local elections. Work for more progressive candidates at the local level.
And, if you love this country, vote for Clinton/Kaine and against Trump this Fall.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts) 
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)They'd have ONE shot to compose and post their farewell post for their "digital suicide" and as soon as they clicked the "POST" button, their account would be automatically shut off. No 2nd chances. No reinstatement. No replies. No follow-up. No edits.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)You are not pissed that we embraced him. But that he embraced Hillary and us!!
Turn you back on us and you turn your back on your hero! Because Bernie is now with us!! He happens to be a very skilled politician who knew when to fight and when to make peace.
But enjoy your goodbye cruel world moment.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I'm sorry. You of all people really tried.
mythology
(9,527 posts)and worse, at the convention. Pretending that it was just Clinton supporters who treated Sanders supporters badly isn't dealing with reality. You can't complain that Clinton supporters don't really want to make common cause with Sanders supporters at the same time as Sanders supporters like Nina Turner are out there saying she will vote for the Jill Stein.
There are bad apples on both sides, but at the end of the day, the Clinton side won the most votes and the most delegates. That has to mean something, even if Sanders supporters are disappointed he didn't win.
LonePirate
(13,736 posts)Pretty much all of DU supports progressive ideals and goals. We don't advocate regressive or right wing views here. There might be on occasional detail or two people view differently but it's much like chocolate chip cookie recipes. There are plenty of great recipes out there and some people think their recipe is the best. Yet at the end of the day, we all want a good cookie. Progressive ideals are welcomed, praised and supported here at DU. Every issue cited by the OP is something pretty much everyone here at DU except the nihilists want. DU does not demonize progressives or progressive ideals. To think otherwise is to believe in some cartoon version of DU, to paraphrase Bill Clinton. I simply don't understand where this persecution complex comes from as there is nothing here to support it.
One of the 99
(2,280 posts)being a spoiled brat who wants things 100% their way all the time.
procon
(15,805 posts)
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)We're especially supportive of his statement that he's proud to stand with Hillary and that she must become the next president of the United States. I hope that all of his supporters respect and act upon the wishes of Senator Sanders in this regard.
zenabby
(364 posts)but I am shocked that the mothers of movement, who lost their children are able to handle the situation with so much grace, and the losing side of a primary election when they still hold a lot of power and most of their ideas made into the platform is not able to handle the election loss. Life is much more complicated. Democracy works this way. It's not that your ideas were not heard, there were more people who had slightly different ideas and solutions. If you think this soured, imagine how it would be in a Trump/republican group and how well your ideas will be received.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)
brer cat
(25,260 posts)Welcome to DU.
tandem5
(2,073 posts)Sincerely,
Elinor
Metric System
(6,048 posts)
Old and In the Way
(37,540 posts)Or should I call you Bud? Enjoy your walk in the wilderness, Herb. May the buds give you the illusion of true intelligence!
merrily
(45,251 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)misogynist slurs of Hillary.
Bernie Sanders would be banned at that pigsty after being derided as a "Hillbot" by the inmates.
You all have everything you need there. No need to return here for everything.
RonniePudding
(889 posts)
AwakeAtLast
(14,187 posts)Through FOUR ugly Presidential campaigns. Giving up and going home is fine, but you learn so much more by sticking it out. Just my $.02.
susanna
(5,231 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)That demonizing you mention went both ways I'm sure you know.
I and many other Hillary supports were banned off DU multiple times over the last year or so when Bernie fans ruled this board with an iron fist.
But hey thats old news. Hillary and Bernie have got a Trump to defeat in the fall. Fighting time between democrats is over.
Enjoy JPR
aikoaiko
(34,200 posts)You are spot on accurate about DU turn on Bernie supporters and lefties who aren't obediently touting the party line, but I think its temporary. DU goes through these phases during primaries and elections.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)aikoaiko
(34,200 posts)During the rest of the term we are open to criticism of Democrats
Maru Kitteh
(28,495 posts)It was for too long, and that shit is over.
aikoaiko
(34,200 posts)And yes, I think the hate for Hillary (as well as Bernie) got out of hand during the primary season.
still_one
(93,985 posts)toward Hillary and her supporters
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280104210
and there were a lot more worse than that also.
This place was a living Hillary and Hillary supporter bashing site for months.
To your claim of DU demanding "Bernie supporters" "tout the party line"
If touting the party line means to support the Democratic nominee, then yes that is correct, This is a Democratic site whose TOS are to support the Democratic nominee.
If some have a problem with that, then they should feel free to mosey on to where some of the others have gone, where they can freely call Hillary the "c" word, and throw every progressive or group who endorsed Hillary under the bus.
aikoaiko
(34,200 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)
I do appreciate your perspective in 61 and 89.
If I wasn't allowed to criticize Clinton here after the election I doubt I would stick around. We know criticism will be allowed after the election. Might I say even harsh criticism.
still_one
(93,985 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts) Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Sometimes it's best to take a step back instead of walking away tho.
We have three months
betsuni
(26,630 posts)
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)Me, I vote as a right and a duty to make sure that the real world we live in has the best future possible.
I frankly didn't care for a great number of the posts of the people who have left in an adolescent snit, but this place is far better without them, and I do not miss them and will not miss them. If they need to vote for someone other than the Democratic Party nominee of 2016, that is their right and in fact it is their duty. I see Jill Stein and Gary Johnson as hopeful spoilers with zero chance of winning. I see Donald Trump as a stooge that will destroy NATO and raid our treasury.
I know who the real Hillary Clinton is, and she is not the monster that the right wing has spent 25 years smearing. People who believe that she is a monster, or not a liberal, just refuse to review the facts. She is the most liberal nominee our party has had since George McGovern.
Sen. Kaine is the most liberal VP nominee we have had since Walter Mondale. Maybe even since Henry Wallace.
If you cannot support them, then you definitely do not belong here. And if you claim to be a liberal or a progressive and don't vote for them, I won't break bread with you or give you the time of day. I do break bread and give the time of day to Republicans, but they are too dumb to know the difference. Liberals and progressives who will not vote for Hillary Clinton are very, very stupid, egotistical, narcissistic, willfully ignorant and not worth wasting time on. Senator Bernie Sanders has definitely shown that he knows what is at stake. Not all of his supporters have his vision.
Bill Clinton gave a big long list of Hillary Clinton's accomplishments tonight. It was very, very impressive. That list explains why I have for 25 years backed her (I knew of her work as a lawyer before I heard of Bill) and it also explains why conservatives hate her with every fiber of their being: she will advance our agenda relentlessly.
She won't play nice with Republicans in the same way President Obama did for seven years. She knows better, and the Republicans have abandoned all pretense of joint government. She will fight. And she has proven she knows how, and that she knows Republicans are the opposition and must be treated as the opposition. Review her 11 hour long Benghazi testimony. She is quite capable.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,508 posts)LongtimeAZDem
(4,508 posts)If Trump wins, you will be blamed for putting your ideological purity over the needs of your countrymen; nobody will pay any attention to you again for a long time.
If Clinton wins despite you, you will have demonstrated that we don't need you, and nobody will pay any attention to you again for a long time.
If you can't work and play well with others, you make enemies on all sides. Adieu.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,364 posts)I truly believe in progressive ideals too, and me and others like me have been excoriated as 1% tools of the oligarchy for a year and as probably bathing in champagne. But whatever.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Just reading some of the replies here, ..well...
merrily
(45,251 posts)(Thanks for putting in a good word for me, pangaia.)
RandySF
(63,224 posts)Aristus
(67,105 posts)I've been here for 15 years; through good times and bad.
Be well...
RonniePudding
(889 posts)
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)
Tal Vez
(660 posts)be civil and thoughtful.
I'm not sure that it's fair to conclude that your views "and those of other Bernie supporters are not wanted on this board." If you agreed with Bernie about most of his political goals, then you will probably have a difficult time finding people on this board who disagree with you about those goals. Your statement that you "'truly' believe in progressive ideals" seems calculated to imply that others here do not believe in progressive ideals. Nearly everything that I have read on this board reflects the pursuit of progressive ideals and I think it would be a huge mistake to assume that there are many here who lack those ideals. I must say that I have been extremely surprised to see people refer to Clinton as a conservative. That is clearly a delusion that I cannot endorse. And, quite obviously, neither does Bernie. He knows like I know that Sanders and Clinton share a political philosophy and share common political goals. Most of the differences that I see concern differences about the best approach to achieve those goals.
It is difficult to lose and that is something I know because in some fifty years of political activity, I can say that I have lost many more times than I have won. Progress in this system is damned hard. However, I think that I have learned a lot from those very painful election nights.
Good luck, Herb.
True Dough
(17,841 posts)It was a grueling primary. There were many shots taken, many hard feelings.
Putting it behind us is difficult, but it's a choice we all have to make for ourselves.
Be well.
Lobo27
(753 posts)My post count is not high, I mostly lurk. I have been part of spirited debates, I have pissed people off and they have me. Truth be told I'm not a member of any groups and don't know anyone personally.
But I do know this is, I know that I share a great many common things with people one this board. We may disagree to the point of lashing out etc...
But at the end of the day the reason I stay is because this board to me at least is a reminder that there can be a better tomorrow.
Good luck to you friend. Remember to be liberal and proud of it.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)
LuvLoogie
(7,249 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)To the extent that I respect his request that we support Hillary against Drumpfler.
Primary season has ALWAYS been toxic on DU. That's why I disappeared for nearly a year.
DU has plenty of progressives that understand the big picture and don't demand immediate gratification.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I understand the hopeful responses about how the board always recovers from the primary battles, but I'm skeptical. I was here through the 2007-08 campaign. There was division then, but DU didn't see the overall deterioration that it has this time.
Some of the other responses to you in this thread reinforce my pessimism.
Unlike many DUers who voted for Bernie, I'm sticking around, at least for now, but I'm already spending less time here than I used to. I'm not mentioning that as any kind of threat. Obviously, some of the people posting in this thread are openly jubilant about having more ideological homogeneity on the board. The admins, while welcoming the consequent diminution of rancor, won't be happy if another consequence is a loss of traffic.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I've read it's the same as always, but I've also read it was worse this time.
I am not sure what the admins want, but traffic cannot be their first priority here. At Discussionist, maybe.
Great to see you!
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)
(That's my standard reply on all "Goodbye, DU Posts).
Take care, and be well.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)We have embraced Sandwrs, it'd his fringe never been Dems that will never come around. Your post shows a stunning lack of maturity and a whole ducking lot of sour grape
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)Good riddance
anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)There are always a bunch of them during presidential election years. Honestly it seems silly and histrionic to me to post a "goodbye cruel DU" rant if one is just going to stop posting at a political website. I mean ffs it's an Internet site, and I don't understand the need to post a message crying about how people on the site are especially hyped up during presidential election years.
I started lurking here in 2004 -- so I can't even count how many of these I've read over the years.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Peace to you.
abbeyco
(1,556 posts)ErikJ
(6,335 posts)Im Bernie Bro but I always thought all the squabbling was dumb.
chwaliszewski
(1,515 posts)but I'm staying here if anything to read the amusing comments. 
PatrickforO
(14,755 posts)I at times felt patronized, shunted aside, thought of as what Rahm Emmanuel called a 'libtard.' One of those unicorns, you know. Funny story - I posted a little deal about Bernie on The Hill and some right winger called me a 'parasite.' But you know, he is a perfect example of someone brainwashed by corporate propaganda over years of exposure to Fox and hate-talk radio. So, he's a hater.
I say this because I had kind of an epiphany tonight watching the convention. I have been a fervent and (I like to think) pretty articulate and well-informed supporter of Bernie Sanders. I also cheered Obama over Hillary in '08. I came to see Clinton almost as a mechanical caricature who was empty inside, wanted only to be elected but didn't really care about us.
Tonight in the convention speeches I heard different from quite a few people. Hillary was humanized for me. I honestly had no idea she has this long track record of accomplishment.
See, someone on here pointed out that the right wing has had since the 90s to hate Hillary and undermine her and everything she stands for. They have. The 90s was when the real GOP hate started, with Rove the 'son' of Atwater, both vile snakes.
Anyway they have spent a long time making Hillary into a sort of cartoon caricature. But she is not. She is a real human who actually does care. Not Bill so much, but those others - that guy with dwarfism from Nebraska - she kept in touch with him for years and called him before the numerous surgeries he had to have. Honestly, a cartoon automaton isn't gonna do that.
Don't leave here because of a cartoon. We libs are AT the table now and we got about 80% of Bernie's positions in the platform and that platform is a message for the POB in the party not to take us for granted. But if people like us LEAVE the table now that we've worked so hard to get TO the table, then they will take us for granted.
If I were you I would not leave. I would do what I'm going to do: stay, argue, advocate progressive positions.
Last word: even if you leave I do urge you to vote for Clinton. Sure the Greens are pretty close to where we are, but they aren't real in terms of their ability to win. Vote Clinton and then hold her feet to the fire, as well as all the downticket Dems we put in office. That's the way to go. Let's not let Trump anywhere near that nuclear football.
Nonetheless, good luck.
Ned Flanders
(233 posts)Everything you said, HerbChestnut.
I've flirted with the idea of leaving, but DU is entertaining and still has some good content, so instead I lurk here, and occasionally post. But usually only to poke them in their conscience. Someone has to keep them honest. I'm in mourning over how far right the Dem party has shifted, even as I move left, and this site does reflect that. I reckon soon enough I'll be kicked/banned, and will wear the badge proudly. Off to JPR with me, lol! (Can I be banned for mentioning that "alternate" site?)
Seriously. Forums where you can't be critical of the subject at hand really smack of "free speech zones." I'll spare anyone reading this the rest. I really can't overcome the power of cognitive dissonance. Shame on you. I mean, take the example of Sean Hannity: he's smart enough to know better, but at least he's doing it for the financial gain.
To those of you frowning at me right now: Basic Progressive Values. Language like "universal health care is impossible" is not what I want from the POTUS and leader of the Democratic party.
Please don't leave, HerbChestnut!
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)... about how hard done by the Bernie supporters were on DU, when we all know they represented 85% of the posters here during the primaries and, also being 85% of the jury pool, pretty much controlled the entire board.
That being said, I don't know where you "got the distinct impression that progressives aren't wanted here". DU has always been a site for progressives. Some of them supported BS and some supported HRC - the latter group being told for the past year that they're NOT progressives if they're not with Bernie.
Anyway, if you're headed over to JPR in order to support Bernie, you'd better get there right quick. The Bernie-under-the-bus crowd has been very vocal since he endorsed HRC, and his now full support of her candidacy is not exactly going over well. Right now there are posts about how Bernie's entire campaign was a sham, and he was the Judas goat meant to appeal to the "progressives" in order to deliver them into HRC's hands.
But no worries. Once Bernie is thrown overboard, there will still be Democrats to accuse of stealing elections, threatening the lives of their political adversaries, accepting bribes in exchange for selling out their fellow citizens - ya know, ALL the stuff that JPR "progressives" discuss as their contribution to making the nation a better place.
P.S. You'd better check the JPR rules before posting there. I don't know if the "you'll be banned if you say Bernie won't be the nominee" rule is still in effect. It might still be - there are still those who believe that "it's still not over!"
Cha
(300,943 posts)and therefore the infamous "juries"... I believe I saw that quote from Skinner.
Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)Sorry to see you go! I would ask that you try to understand where Hillary's supporters are coming... We lost in 2008, in a much closer race. We're still here, we didn't pack it up and leave, we continued to stand for who and what we believed in and opened our hearts and mind to then Senator Obama.
I only ask that the Sander's supporters do the same. I hear a lot about progressives vote being taken for granted, but what about our vote? We're progressives too and in some ways we feel like every election were expected to accept only the most vocal amongst us... and it looks like in this case, we're left standing alone.
This is very sad to me. In 2008, we did what was right for the country and came together to elect President Obama and now that we've finally achieved what we've worked so long for, a specific faction in the party is saying that they are abandoning us. How would you feel?
sofa king
(10,857 posts)The world is a lot bigger than this general election--or the other three that I've watched here--and it's changing fast and largely for the better, thanks in no small part to the many people who supported Bernie Sanders.
You're not likely to find a better lot of people than those here at DU, most of whom care very much for other people. That's an enormous strength but also a recipe for hot conversation. Most of us will welcome you back, and I for one will look forward to your contributions.
merrily
(45,251 posts) riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)
Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,495 posts)Enjoy your view from the Soyuz? 
(okay it was actually an implosion but you get the idea)
Happy PUMA trails? 
Don't know what you're looking for here. Because your snide innuendos and assertions 
are, in the words of Sarah Silverman, ridiculous. 
Bon Voyage.
Socal31
(2,486 posts)They always come back.
stonecutter357
(12,746 posts) obamanut2012
(26,749 posts) merrily
(45,251 posts) Mike Nelson
(10,149 posts)...winning is better. Now, let's win the big one.
Goodbye, but vote!
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)"Corporate shills!"
"Neoliberal sellouts!"
"Republicrats!"
Neither can you spend a year demonizing people and then expect them to cater to you despite the fact that they earned the win that they're celebrating.
Clinton's supporters received much worse vitriol than anything you can cite toward Sanders supporters, and then the people who spent so many months saying such things are demanded to be "respected" so they don't feel so bad about losing?
No sale.
betsuni
(26,630 posts)Ah, the memories.
Hillary's "SUCH A LIAR and she thinks people are STUPID."
"Hillary, 'I'll only talk to white people.' Hillary the dog whistler. ... Hill supporters are an illustration of cognitive dissonance writ large."
"Hillary is a racist and bigot at heart, when she articulates her true feelings she's scary evil."
"I have never in my life wished ill on people. I think that position might have changed. Die in a fire, Clinton propagandists."
"Shit, do Hill supporter love drama. ... Bashing to you means anything negative about Hillary which is the whole fucking problem from your side."
Hillary supports are: "Fascist pigs" "old ass school marms" "a bunch of scum sucking muppets" "narcissists"
DU is a "cesspool hate site full of bitter assholes."
"Shill for Shillary" "Chosen One" "Killary" Hillary "is, in a certain way, evil"
"The Clinton campaign is putrid and vile reeking of David Brock."
"The cabal of assholes is starting to make me wish I'd gone too. They crawled out from some rock near the end of the primary, full of themselves."
"Hillary supporters are trolls, liars, ratfuckers, complete piles of shit."
"Asshole behavior is all camp Clinton offered from day one."
"You all can't seem to understand our distain for your side."
"Hillary made a deal with the devil."
"The Clinton campaign is like a giant vampire squid sucking the life out of everything it touches."
"Madam Secretary ... with sincerity, kindly go fuck yourself with a brick."
"This shit stain known as HRC."
All the many, many, accusations that all Hillary supporters are David Brock shills and Stockholm syndrome sufferers or idiots, etc. Too many to possibly stuff in one post.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Along with Skinner's saying that the board was 85% people who supported Sanders in the primary, it really makes their claims of being run off the board ridiculous. Talk about rewriting history!
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Another way that "some Sanders supporters" ended up sounding just like Republicans, accusing Clinton and her supporters of actions and words that really applied more to themselves than Clinton and her supporters.
My biggest and best example?
"Some Sanders supporters" were the ones who expected the coronation, for him. They expected the Democratic Party to bow down to their candidate. They expected him to waltz to the nomination and were the ones outraged that anyone dare question him. They were the ones who couldn't handle scrutiny and tough expectations of being able to present serious policy proposals instead of grand rhetoric. They were the ones who couldn't handle the results of Democratic primary elections not going their way.
It's disgusting to me that threads like these are allowed to stand. HRC supporters are being told to "stand down" even as "some Sanders supporters" get away with continuing to fight the primary and bash our nominee.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)And those good bye John letters never get boring. Lol.
BeyondGeography
(39,562 posts)
DrDan
(20,411 posts)taught middle-school for a couple of years - and everything has to be so full of drama . . .
Demsrule86
(69,919 posts)anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)and I have seen SO MANY of these over the years that honestly they are comical to me. The candidates change but the idea that the poster has somehow been exceptionally wronged by the evil masses at DU and therefore needs to write a long email criticizing everyone on the way out stays the very same.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)
George II
(67,782 posts)Democratic Underground is an online community where politically liberal people can do their part to effect political and social change by:
Interacting with friendly, like-minded people;
Sharing news and information, free from the corporate media filter;
Participating in lively, thought-provoking discussions;
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Having fun!
After more than a decade online, Democratic Underground still hosts the most active liberal discussion board on the Internet. We are an independent website funded by member subscriptions and advertising, and we have no affiliation with the Democratic Party. Democratic Underground is a truly grassroots community where regular members drive the discussion and set the standards. There is no other website quite like it anywhere on the Internet.
We are always looking for friendly, liberal people who appreciate good discussions and who understand the importance of electing more Democrats to office. So sign up today!
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Well you know the rest.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Meh, people come, people go.
Been here 10 years, myself. DU most certainly isn't for everyone.
Have to say...the cesspit that is JPR isn't exactly a step up. To each his own, I guess.
Happy Trails.
Sancho
(9,073 posts)Then folks would not waste time debating illogical statements like this...
"...and it's entirely because of certain posters who (frankly) take the progressive vote for granted."
Unless you have a PT (Progressive Thermometer) that you can stick in someone's ear to measure what they took "for granted", then the entire reason you are leaving is nothing more than your own lack of understanding.
There are lots of people who simply don't see the definition of progressive the same way. Personally, I think Sander's view of progressivism is very flawed. His policies are also politically flawed.
Goodbye and good luck!
Patiod
(11,816 posts)Long-time poster, but haven't been here since the Sandernistas took over, because I come here as a haven away from all the wingnuts in the world, not more arguing and anger and fury.
Now that the infighting has settled (somewhat) and the Bernie or Busters are gone, I'll be back and re-upping for my star.
Sadly, I'm afraid that the Bernie or Bust contingent will have me huddled here for the next four years, trying to pretend the Orange Grifter Horror didn't just con 51% of Americans.
Just like last time, when the "I'm voting my conscience! I'm voting for Nadar!" yahoos subjected us to 8 years of hell. But hey - they can pat themselves on the back that they Did What's Right.
One of the 99
(2,280 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts) ChazII
(6,252 posts)I am in the minority but I appreciate when folks let us know they are leaving. Being an Eeyore (assuming the worst) personality at least I will know that you and yours are okay.
beaglelover
(3,807 posts)One of the 99
(2,280 posts)so now you're taking your ball and going home.
Guess you're supporting Trump now.
artyteacher
(598 posts)You just invaded the party and the forum and you expected democrats to roll over?
Loki
(3,826 posts) Bye
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Just like your post less than 2 days ago saying that delegates should overturn the primary voting and not nominate Hillary.
LonePirate
(13,736 posts)I wouldn't call overthrowing an election to be progressive but DU welcomes different viewpoints here.
Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
uppityperson
(115,699 posts)Doodley
(9,540 posts)fighting for. Trump is at 5%. This is no reason to leave. Clinton has embraced many of Sanders demands and if you want Sanders work to mean anything, stay the course.
Tarc
(10,495 posts)
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)themaguffin
(4,053 posts)nini
(16,679 posts)THIS is exactly what pisses me off about these so called 'real' progressives.
YOU don't get to pick and choose who satisfies your version of what a progressive is or not. I believe in all the things you state but also know none of it will get done with the Congress we have and God forbid a Trump presidency. Sometimes we have to do what is best at any given time and continue to try and pull the country back to make even more progress. I especially love the whiny posts that one side has been mean to the other while being insulting in doing so.
Take your ball and go home since this 'game' is obviously too dimensional to play at your level.
blah
GumboYaYa
(5,962 posts)Don't come back please!
jonno99
(2,620 posts)now that he is supporting HRC? Do you no longer trust his judgment?
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Buzz cook
(2,517 posts)nt
Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)
Post removed
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)abused those generous, benevolent, [font size="3"]never vindictive[/font] Bernie fans, the self proclaimed creators and sole exponents of liberalism (or progressivism as you prefer). Be comforted by the thought that Heaven will be populated ONLY with Bernie fans! --- of course, those Hillary people are ALL going down "There"!
mcar
(43,057 posts)Violates the Statement of Purpose for this forum: