This message was self-deleted by its author

[Yavin4]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Yavin4) on Sun Jul 7, 2013, 10:52 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Vietnameravet]

1. And dont you love those that compare Obama to Cheney and they say they are Democrats?

[BehindTheCurtain76]

88. Ignorance

The only one making it about Obama are the ones defending NSA. Don't get mad at the messengers who say the political process has failed. All of America on both sides know this. It's only pros who are defending it anymore. The problem isn't democrats principles in general...it's that those in key positions have rolled over because they accept being the B-Team. The Executive branch has lots of power as we say all the time and Obama could wield it if he wished regardless of howuch you capitalize your letters in frustration. It's indefensible. Do you know how many Monsanto lobbyists he has appointed? Around 15 to positions that do not require congressional approval. By the time people wake up to this it will be too late and you will have The Evil Jeb Bush as president an he will be laughing all the way to the bank as he has gamed you all...because you have to stick up for yourself and fight when you are attacked or lied about otherwise you will always fail no matter how many lame excuses you come up with to exonerate yourself. It's a war people and that means not rolling over and when someone does repeatedly without rhyme or reason then something is amiss. Maybe key democrats are victims of blackmail...who knows except they sure aren't acting like they want to challenge much and those do end up strangely tragedies from Robin Cook, JFK entire family , weapons inspectors, Michael Hastins of the world, sen Udalls brother, Paul Wellstone etc etc. Nader 2016. Lol

[Fumesucker]

2. Which Congressmen would that be?

You might recall that Obama promised to vote against the FISA bill with telco immunity.

He broke that promise and voted to retroactively change the law to let spying lawbreakers off the hook.

[Yavin4]

4. DON'T BE A SMARTASS

BEING A SMARTASS DOES JACKSHIT FOR THE CAUSE.

[Fumesucker]

9. Stating facts is now being a smartass?

My point is that you can vote in the Congressmen or Senators but their promises mean exactly nothing, they do what they wish once in office.

[sabrina 1]

41. So what do we do when we do as you say and vote for members of Congress who

say one thing when they are running for office, then vote against those very policies? Because I can assure you, that is now the question on the minds of millions of Democrats. What is your solution to forcing a member of Congress NOT to vote for a bill they promised not to vote for?

[FirstLight]

89. + a MILLION!

...since when does VOTING do jack shit? I have no congress critter, because he isn't the one *I* voted for, he's a GD Rethug.

personally i think we are beyond voting this country towards sanity, I'm hoping a movement like Occupy could grow and FORCE change...but that isn;t encouraging when you see how much the POLICE STATE cracked their collective heads into the pavement in several cities and there's no consequence because homeland security was behind it all...

so I'm pissed, but more than that I am REALLY pissed that there's really no recourse...

did anyone see this? www.trollthensa.com

[cali]

55. stop yelling. you look ridiculous.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

78. x2

[tblue]

80. I need ear plugs.

Thank you for saying that. Somebody needs a chill pill. Does anyone think we don't vote for people we believe wouldn't support spying on us?

[dawg]

63. What is "THE CAUSE"?

Because if "THE CAUSE" is protecting our civil liberties, then I'm all for it. But if "THE CAUSE" is just to elect Democrats, no matter what they do once they are in office, then I think I'll pass.

[sibelian]

3. Fantastic advice. Very sensible and pertinent.

All we need now are some congressmen who will overturn it.

[treestar]

5. GO YOU

There is no reasoning with the emo left. Yelling may help.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. So says the name calling right? Seems so? Or do you prefer 'name calling center'?

nt

[sabrina 1]

44. What is the 'emo' left? The only other place I have ever seen that reference is on a site

known to be anti-left Third Way propaganda site where most of the attacks on the Left emanate from. And which, btw, is despised to the point where most of its members have managed to get themselves banned from Democratic forums. I always wondered what that meant.

[dawg]

66. I prefer the term "emoprog".

It sounds like a bizarre combination of Pink Floyd and Panic at the Disco and I would be totally down with that.

[winter is coming]

6. The Vogons are hiring. n/t

[TriplD]

7. And what should we do when the executive lies to congress with impunity?

A lot of good it does to have congressmen when the executive used lies and manipulation to prevent Congress from performing it's oversight function.

Maybe we should revive the concepts of perjury before congress and impeachment instead?

[Yavin4]

10. HERE'S MY SUGGESTION TO YOU

NEVER VOTE FOR OBAMA EVER AGAIN. OKAY? DOES THAT MAKE YOU FUCKING FEEL BETTER?!?!

[SaveOurDemocracy]

46. YIKES!! Screaming @ people makes you look so rational.

........................

[siligut]

53. Probably didn't vote for Obama ever

All that trust in Congress and the mention of impeachment?

[baldguy]

85. People who want to impeach innocent Dem Pres while leaving free a GOP Pres guilty of worse crimes

Is no Democrat.

[frylock]

8. RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!1

[frylock]

19. you need a fucking break

[Rex]

31. Ya he has lost it, mailed that msg to me.

Kinda like a few other RAH RAHs around here.

[bvar22]

45. Defending the indefensible is Hard Work.

One can only take so much!

[Rex]

50. Ya defending something that we can both see with our own two eyes

as bullshit must be a hard, full time job for some people here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Given this goes all the way back to Truman

And it is bipartisan

And it accelerated with Clinton, and went on steroids with bush...

Tell me again how voting for either party will change this.

[another_liberal]

90. Vote defensively.

Learn all you can about the Democratic and Republican candidates (third party candidates, sadly, are nothing in American Presidential politics). Consider carefully what you have learned, and vote for the one who seems likely to cause you the least harm.

Repeat in four years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. Given I cover politics for a local paper

What do you want to know of the judges race?

[another_liberal]

118. Who supports repeal of the pot laws?

Just curious.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. My local judges, none.

It was moderate republican last time vs crazy tea party flack

[another_liberal]

121. More of the same.

(sigh)

[Savannahmann]

13. OK Yavin, let's talk Civics 101

Who has the power to Veto a bill? Is it Congress? We just cheered the Governor of Missouri for vetoing a bill. Why didn't he just sign it and put the blame on the state house? BECUASE IT WAS HIS CHOICE. Go along, or stand up.

President Obama made the decision, and the decision was to go along, instead of standing up. I certainly blame the members of Congress, but they are in the case of the Senate 1/100th of the problem. In the house, each member is an even smaller portion of the problem. Of course I'm going to work to get Liberals elected. But the point is not that one more or less congressman votes for this abomination. It's that the President had a chance, a chance to stand up. All of this could have been derailed not by convincing a majority of Congressmen, or forty five senators, or a significant portion of the population. All of this could have been stopped by one man, who had the power to veto this bill. He had the power to stand up and use the collection of the worlds press at his fingertips. He could have given a speech that just about anyone could have written.

President Obama picked the alternative. He decided to go along, and pretend that all was well. That isn't my fault, or the fault of anyone here. We worked for him, and we worked to get him elected, and re-elected. We hoped he'd stand up and say. "As a Constitutional scholar, and a man who taught Constitutional law, I can say that this program is in practice, and in fact, a violation of the 4th Amendment, and I have today Vetoed this bill."

We could have had this discussion then, talking about Civil Rights, and the place of the Constitution. Instead we put it off, and now it's biting us in the ass like an alligator. Guess what, we deserve it. We asked for this discussion now, by putting it off then. We didn't bother standing up for Principle, and now we are suffering for picking Politics over Principle.

[enough]

59. Thanks. (nt)

[Bluenorthwest]

14. Caps are cute,but my Senators Weyden and Merkley and my Rep DeFazio are

leading the pressure on the WH to come clean about these programs and have been for years, Weyden voted against the extension of the Patriot Act in 2006. Obama voted to extend and expand it for GW Bush's pleasure.
The only official in DC for whom I have a vote who is not already on my side is the President, and that is why he is a fitting and suitable recipient of this citizen's displeasure with these polices.
Just because YOUR area elects Republicans and runs Blue Baggers or Blue Dogs or whatnot who fail to draw voters does not mean the rest of us are in your unsavory position.
What answer do you have for that, Mr CAPS?

[G_j]

15. unrec

for frozen caps lock..

[Rex]

16. LOL! OMG YOU USED ALL CAPS TO MAKE YOUR POINT!

THAT NEVER FAILS EVA!

[silvershadow]

64. AND, OP YELLED AT A WHOLE BUNCHA PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO WAY TO CHANGE THEIR DISTRICTS FROM RED

TO BLUE.

[Rex]

67. NOT ONLY THAT HE DUMAILED SOME OF US IN ALL CAPS TOO!

AND IT WASN'T A NICE DUMAIL, NO SIR.

[truebluegreen]

111. Oh for Dog's sake.

[Rex]

112. WOULD YOU LIKE TO READ IT, IT IS KINDA FUNNY!

HI!

[truebluegreen]

115. Love to!

[Rex]

117. I SENT IT TO YOU ...ahem...

in DUmail. Not something appropriate for the public. Potty mouth words etc..

[NuclearDem]

123. LOOOOOOOUD NOISES!

[backscatter712]

17. I DIDN'T KNOW CAPS-LOCK MADE POSTS EXTRA-PERSUASIVE! N/T

[bobduca]

20. "I HOPE YOU FUCKING SUFFER AND SUFFER AND SUFFER SOME FCUKING MORE. "

FILED UNDER FAILED SLOGANS FOR 2014

[sibelian]

60. I think it's kinda catchy.

Maybe it should be the next Dem presidential candidate's campaign slogan.

"Vote for me you stupid sons of whores, or a Republican will get in and it will be your own fault and I HOPE YOU FUCKING SUFFER AND SUFFER AND SUFFER SOME FCUKING MORE."

[Aerows]

101. LMAO!

Yeah, I guess that one works - the "stupid sons of whores" was a nice touch

[truebluegreen]

114. Twice in a day...

[DisgustipatedinCA]

126. I want this bumper sticker on my car.

I mean, I fucking want this bumper sticker on my fucking car. I love it.

[ohheckyeah]

21. Too much caffeine? n/t

[Aerows]

105. Or not enough

getting a grip. Sheesh.

[Douglas Carpenter]

22. when it comes to administrative powers over the Clandestine services - the Executive branch has

pretty much the sames powers as they do over the military or the State Department. They are essentially the Commander and Chief of the Clandestine services and certainly can redirect things.

[nashville_brook]

28. ouch -- that would seem to completely undermine the OP

expect an all-caps freakout...if the poster hasn't passed out, or had a stroke already.

[nashville_brook]

23. POTUS said he "welcomes this debate" -- not sure why you're projecting/transferring this anger

to people in your own party who are interested in reigning in a dragnet spying program. no one is calling for impeachment, or hanging this on him and him alone. we've repeated seen posters point out that this is likely below his pay-grade, and possibly the result of Cheney "stay-behinds."

President Obama says he "welcomes the debate" on the value and potential risks this program presents to privacy of Americans who are participating in digital life. Technology has gone beyond what our laws could foresee just a few years ago -- so, it's not unreasonable to have this debate.

it's not unreasonable to examine where we are and how we got here. and it's certainly not unreasonable to ask ourselves "is this the best we can do?"

[marions ghost]

29. +++

---

[moondust]

24. The anarchists and libertarians are restless.

[AgingAmerican]

25. We can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time

Most of us have been fighting this stuff since 2001. Ain't gonna stop fighting it.

[Agnosticsherbet]

26. Which ones would that be.

Russ Feingold was the only Senator that voted against in in 2001. He is gone.

This is a list of those who voted against it and it's reauthorization. http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote.shtml

The bigger question, is how do we know? Do we force everyone running for Congress or the Senate to swear an oath that they wll repeal the Patriot act?

[Rex]

30. The poster has no idea what he is talking about.

Just yelling out of frustration imo.

[railsback]

27. Better yet

Get all your asses off the 'internets'. Dump your wireless providers. Delete the DU. Stop shopping. Get off the freakin' grid! Otherwise, this is nothing but FAUX OUTRAGE. Seriously, people, you do this to yourselves, signing up for shit, making purchases, just going outside, you're being watched. It doesn't matter if its the NSA or TARGET. Focusing on one while ignoring the other is the biggest freakin' joke of all. Whatever. THIS IS THE NEW WORLD. Your shit is ALL in the digital world, where ANYONE can take it. ANONYMOUS hacks into everyone's shit. You think they're the only ones who can do this? My GAWD! In the meantime, while waiting for some saviour to swoop in and somehow miraculously make all your shit private, you all keep doing it. In countries like Thailand, you can buy a sim card /number for a dollar and send cards here where you can hook up. Someone explain how anyone is supposed to keep track on all of this, thousands of new numbers just popping out of thin air all over the world. Oh, let's just dump the NSA so our porn activities aren't being monitored. Sounds like a 'jeenyus' plan, alright.

I've had my digital data ripped off a couple of times, even my bank account, and even get numerous emails from my records of personal contacts, people I know who's names have been lifted to send me malware and shit. People like Snowden just expose methods of tracking down crooks, no matter what country they're in, so they can develop even more sophisticated methods of ripping you off. How heroic is that, exactly? The vermin gets no sympathy from me.

So, yes, learn to deal with it. Its NOT going away, no matter how hard you squeeze your eyes shut and cross your fingers. The more sophisticated data becomes, the more sophisticated criminals get, and the more sophisticated law enforcement must become to keep up. Shit moves at blinding speed now, and you can't always be sitting in court, waiting for a judge to come back from his golf game, so he can review and approve a warrant on an unknown number that just popped up on a known network of criminal activity. Get real. Go off the grid completely or get some common sense.. and try to put yourself in the position of what the President has to deal with, and the enormous responsibility of trying to keep everything secure. Or else, yeah, you're looking at more people like Bush in government who could care less in 2014/2016.

[marions ghost]

33. "Put up or shut up"

is basically what you're saying.

Nah...don't think we will...

[railsback]

95. Go off the grid right this second, then.

Oh, still here? Well, easy to categorize all that machismo as "F.O.S."

[marions ghost]

102. I choose to put up

rather than shut up. But I'm not equating "putting up" with agreeing to unreasonable search and seizure.

[nashville_brook]

40. what you're describing is the "Deadwood" frontier of data,

and just like we had to figure out how act civilized to progress from gold-mining days, we're going to have to figure out how to act civilized with data.

just b/c technology has pulled ahead of legal frameworks doesn't mean you abandon legal frameworks. you figure it out. because that's what civilization calls for.

[railsback]

94. There's going to be spying

People just need to wise up to that fact. The government follows the framework. Unfortunately for the romantics, they're just a small part of who's actually watching, and trying to weaken whatever they do just makes the others more capable of being more brazen.

[sabrina 1]

51. Well if we lived in a closed society, and many do, that would be good advice. Iow,

what you just said confirms the fears the OP is so dismissive of.

You just told us that we cannot participate in a free society anymore. It's our fault when a Peeping Tom decides to peer through the bedroom window! Blame the victims. Women are used to that, now I guess the rest of society will have to take the blame when they are abused also.

Thanks, that is what everyone has been trying to tell you. The freedom to live without Government intrusion has been stolen from the American people. I think I'll save your comment as it expresses what everyone has been trying to say perfectly.

[DaDeacon]

61. It is your fault

Last edited Sun Jul 7, 2013, 03:27 AM - Edit history (1)

Close your blinds if you want to stop a peeping tom. " Freedom is the shadow of Authority"

[sabrina 1]

91. Peeping Toms are sneaky. But what they do is illegal so the best way to deaal with them

is to call the police.

[railsback]

93. You can't have it both ways

That's just the simple fact of it all.

[sabrina 1]

106. I don't want it both ways, i want it the right way. The right way means keeping up with

technological developments wrt to laws. This isn't the first time technology got ahead of the laws and passing laws that are specific to the developments, that is what has happened in the past.

It's not rocket science. We have guidelines, and I expect that this will be the result of these revelations. There will be National and International laws passed dealing with this kind of out of control misuse of technology. It's been done before. Hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later. We certainly have the infrastructure to do this so hopefully it will happen as soon as possible.

[DaDeacon]

58. This IS the post on this issue...

That's everyone should read! This is what I have been thinks and saying to friends for a while now. We can't play 9 -5 cops and to 24/7 robbers, and a$$holes. Get out the grid or stay and get watched. Can't have it both ways.

[heaven05]

125. so

it's the famous "give up liberty for security " line, is it? Okay. If you say so. But I think not. It's ludicrous. Security is one thing, invasion of privacy is another. Yeah hundreds of millions/billions/trillions of pieces of data floating around out there. Easy to get ripped off. Money, personal information, emails, internet habits all ARE NOT PRIVATE anymore. Off the grid is the only way to be ensure SOME measure of privacy. So, to sum up, just because it is a fact of life does not mean it's right or that we just have to get over it. The whole world is a stage now and we're all actors on that stage, literally. I don't nor ever wanted to be an actor. Small attempt at levity there. You are right, it is too late to do a damn thing about the state or internet criminals and the all seeing eye. I'm good. Spy on motherfuckers!!!!!

[kas125]

32. I did vote for a congressman who would overturn it.

He's voted against it every time, which is why I keep voting for him. Now what?

[think]

34. I support the 22 Dem Senators who signed a letter to the NSA with concerns & demands:

It's pathetic they even have to ask the questions they must but that is where we are in regards to the NSA, law violations, and Secret Law.


(Bold added for emphasis.)

Bipartisan Group of 26 Senators Seek Answers from DNI Clapper on Bulk Data Collection Program

Friday, June 28, 2013

Washington, D.C. – The recent public disclosures of secret government surveillance programs have exposed how secret interpretations of the USA PATRIOT Act have allowed for the bulk collection of massive amounts of data on the communications of ordinary Americans with no connection to wrong-doing. Reliance on secret law to conduct domestic surveillance activities raises serious civil liberty concerns and all but removes the public from an informed national security and civil liberty debate.

In order to foster that debate, 26 senators sent a letter organized by U.S. Senator Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) asking Director of National Intelligence Clapper to publicly provide information about the duration and scope of the program and provide examples of its effectiveness in providing unique intelligence, if such examples exist.

“We are concerned that by depending on secret interpretations of the PATRIOT Act that differed from an intuitive reading of the statute, this program essentially relied for years on a secret body of law,” the senators wrote in the letter. This and misleading statements by Intelligence officials have “prevented our constituents from evaluating the decisions that their government was making, and will unfortunately undermine trust in government more broadly. The debate that the President has now welcomed is an important first step toward restoring that trust.”

The senators expressed their concern that the program itself has a significant impact on the privacy of law-abiding Americans and that the PATRIOT Act could be used for the bulk collection of records beyond phone metadata. The PATRIOT Act’s “business records” authority can be used to give the government access to private financial, medical, consumer and firearm sales records, among others. In addition to raising concerns about the law’s scope, the senators noted that keeping the official interpretation of the law secret and the instances of misleading public statements from executive branch officials prevented the American people from having an informed public debate about national security and domestic surveillance.

The senators are seeking public answers to the following questions in order to give the American people the information they need to conduct an informed public debate.

How long has the NSA used PATRIOT Act authorities to engage in bulk collection of Americans’ records? Was this collection underway when the law was reauthorized in 2006?

Has the NSA used USA PATRIOT Act authorities to conduct bulk collection of any other types of records pertaining to Americans, beyond phone records?

Has the NSA collected or made any plans to collect Americans’ cell-site location data in bulk?

Have there been any violations of the court orders permitting this bulk collection, or of the rules governing access to these records? If so, please describe these violations.

Please identify any specific examples of instances in which intelligence gained by reviewing phone records obtained through Section 215 bulk collection proved useful in thwarting a particular terrorist plot.

Please provide specific examples of instances in which useful intelligence was gained by reviewing phone records that could not have been obtained without the bulk collection authority, if such examples exist.

Please describe the employment status of all persons with conceivable access to this data, including IT professionals, and detail whether they are federal employees, civilian or military, or contractors.

The Senators signing the letter are: Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), Mark Udall (D-Colo.), Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), Mark Kirk (R-Ill.), Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Tom Udall (D-N.M.), Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii), Jon Tester (D-Mont.), Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), Dean Heller (R- Nev.),Mark Begich (D-Alaska), Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Patty Murray (D-Wash.), Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.), Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), Al Franken (D-Minn.), Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Chris Coons (D-Del.), Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Max Baucus (D-Mont.), Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.), Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisc.) and Mike Lee (R-Utah).


http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/bipartisan-group-of-26-senators-seek-answers-from-dni-clapper-on-bulk-data-collection-program

[giftedgirl77]

48. This is a link to one of the

FISC. There is a ton of info on it including breakdowns to Congress about the filings for each year including how many were requested, how they were approved, & if they were modified by the court. There is another link I had posted a couple of weeks ago that included even more docs from the courts.

https://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/#rept

It doesn't answer all the questions but there is a lot more info out there than ppl are eluding to.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

35. Excuse me? We are dems, we have been, hello!

And now that we got them, they are fucking extending and protecting the neoCON policies.

WTF, over?!

[cantbeserious]

36. I Voted For Obama Twice - Disillusionment All Around - What More Needs To Be Said

eom

[dawg]

69. I did too.

Almost all of us "emoprogs" did. We supported him, but we don't follow blindly.

[cantbeserious]

72. Roger That - Check Out This Young Turks Video - States The Case Against Mass Surveillance Well

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017129956

[The Wielding Truth]

124. He was better than his opponents and with optimal support he would be closer to your expectations.

Yet for you to be disillusioned you must not have known that This President works within parameters. He has not broken current laws as set forth in the insane Patriot Act which is a tool for the easier surveillance of the mass public to pursue criminal intent in advance of national destructive actions. Personally, I believe it is over kill but with limited and untrustworthy intelligence and international police work it is a logical tool for this president to use. It should be ended by Congress but this Congress is too corrupt to function for the good of the people. Nearly all Republicans and I'd say one quarter of the rest are so far removed from the workings for the public good that they are not capable of recovering their true purpose as our representatives.

Your votes were logically correct and your optimism is the reason why our democratic society was established. Our work now, as always is to build and promote the general welfare of our citizens, insure domestic defense and rid the government of those who's goals are only focused on their personal enrichment.Our President is on the right path. He is working for the general good of our country and it's people. He is just not FDR.or Mandela or Gandhi or even Kennedy. He works within parameters. He is not a revolutionary leader that will make the sweeping changes we need. I knew this when I voted and campaigned for him. He is the same man who ran and served one term as POTUS. If you are disillusioned it is because you expected him to be someone else.

The 2010 election is the biggest mistake voters made. Big business has been given the keys to the House and they are pushing out the rights of the people. Our problems are deeper than the President and his use of the NSA. The idea that greed is good and Christianity is based on more personal monetary profit is sick. IT is killing our country not the actions or lack of by President Obama.

[madinmaryland]

37. CALL YOUR CONGRESSCRITTER RIGHT FUCKING NOW...

[another_liberal]

38. All caps . . .

Perhaps you don't realize it, but using all caps is the textual equivalent of shouting everything you say.

[limpyhobbler]

39. 1) THE SPYING IS ILLEGAL 2) oBAMA IS THE MAN IN CHARGE OF DOING THE SPYING SO I GUESS IT SEEMS OK TO

TO BLAME HIM FOR DOING IT. GO AHEAD AND CHECK OUT THIS ANALYSIS BY 2 LEGAL SCHOLARS. IT WAS IN THE ny TIMES. THEY PRETTY MUCH EXPLAINED WHY THE DOMESTIC SPYING PROGRAMS ARE ILLEGAL. HERE'S THE LINK : http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/opinion/the-criminal-nsa.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[xtraxritical]

42. CAPITALS ARE NOT CAPITOL.

[bluestate10]

43. I am a political moderate. Although I won't be and wasn't happy, I can live with

a republican administration. I don't want to see a republican administration ever again in the White House, or republicans ever again controlling the House and/or Senate. But if the Left insists on being assholes and I can't get enough Independents voting with me to turn back republicans, as a highly educated, financially well compensated, single and unattached hetero-sexual male who lives in an upscale part of my state, if the Left wants to blow themselves up and I can't prevent that, have at it my friends, it won't, in the end make a fucking iota of difference for me on any other plane than an emotional one seeing a strident group of people once again set the country back two fucking decades.

[marions ghost]

70. the "Left" is "setting the country back two decades" you say

You're not from around these parts, are ya?

[allin99]

47. you can do more than just vote, which we all do anyway...

and obviously it didn't help. and it's not going to get better, it's going to get worse. So if people do not talk about it, do not get pissed about it, it has no legs and it dies. If that's what you want, great, be quiet and vote.

[woo me with science]

49. Your words are loud but unsupportable.

Washington, we have a problem.


Chilling Legal Memo From Obama DOJ Justifies Assassination of US Citizens
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654954

Obama seeks longer PATRIOT Act extension than Republicans (December 2013)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x380450

When it comes to civil liberties, apparently Democrats are just as bad as Republicans.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022101960

NSA's Massive New Spy Center to Track Your Emails, Internet Activity, and Phone Calls
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101620852

Obama Quietly Signs Abusive Spy Bill He Once Vowed to Eliminate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022104861

Obama repeals Magna Carta, asserting powers our forefathers denied to Kings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101655620

Obama's Memo on Killing Americans Twists 'Imminent Threat' Like Bush
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654919

Obama no better than Bush when it comes to security vs. civil liberties.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022355307

Obama Admin Seeks Permission TO LIE In Response To FOI Requests - Even To The COURTS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2185303

NDAA on trial: Obama Administration fights ban on indefinite detention of Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101748688

Obama administration complicit with private prison industry: President Obama's IncarcerNation
http://www.nationofchange.org/president-obama-s-incarcernation-1335274655

Obama, Democrats Push to Make Bush Spying Laws Permanent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022084702

NDAA, signed by Obama, is a direct attack against legitimate protest and dissent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022064803

NSA Whistleblower: All Americans under constant surveillance, all info. stored, no matter the post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002193487; http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021935289

Bipartisan Congress Disgracefully Approves the FISA Warrantless Spying Bill for Five More Years
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022087323

While Public & Media Focused on 2nd Amendment, 5th Amendment Quietly Dismantled
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022390581

How the Obama administration justifies extrajudicial killing of Americans,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022318187

Judge Says Under Law Executive Branch Can Commit Acts That Sure Do Seem Unconstitutional
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022122464

Obama Justice Dept. says wiretap lawsuit should not proceed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014337039

NDAA Lawsuit- Hedges v. Obama, The Last Thin Line of Defense
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022357078

Federal authorities step up efforts to license surveillance drones for law enforcement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022383596

Big Banks and FBI worked together vs Occupy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022095056]

FBI Investigated 'Occupy' As Possible 'Domestic Terrorism' Threat, Internal Documents Show
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022061578

FBI Documents Reveal Secret Nationwide Occupy Monitoring (Updated the OP)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022057064

Public Buses Across Country Quietly Adding Microphones to Record Passenger Conversations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021965291

Street artist behind satirical NYPD 'Drone' posters arrested
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021920967

The Obama DOJ urged the Supreme Court's endorsement of strip searches.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002521527

Obama Administration Fights to Allow Warrantless GPS Tracking
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1074474

Anonymous to FBI: hey, dudes, maybe you could take a break from...investigating activists....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022145621

Half a billion dollars for drones to spy on Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021876414

From Bradley Manning to Aaron Swartz -- The Government's Inhumane Persecution of Brave Truth Tellers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276941

The sight of Army helicopters and the sound of gunfire...on Houston's south side
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276742

Kiriakou and Stuxnet: the danger of the still-escalating Obama whistleblower war
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275570

Can the DEA Hide a Surveillance Camera on Your Property?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022237059

Social Media and the Stasi
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021888029

Homeland Security Wants to More Than Double Its Predator Drone Fleet Inside the US, Despite Safety/Privacy Invasions
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014312823

CIA Behind Bizarre Censorship Incident At Alleged 9/11 Plotters’ Gitmo Trial
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022280285

“I Am Wearing My Conviction As A Badge Of Honor.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275128

Meet the Contractors Turning America's Police Into a Paramilitary Force
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12525281

How Secrecy Corrodes Democracy
http://election.democraticunderground.com/101655009

Obama Quietly Issues Ruling Saying It's Legal For The FBI To Break The Law
http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7545687

US Pulls Plug on Iran Cable News (Press TV)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014394770

DHS Watchdog OKs 'Suspicionless' Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022339091

[Zorra]

52. All about Obama, again. *sigh*

[heaven05]

56. take

a 'lude'. damn. THE whole FUCKING government, legislative, judicial and executive is at fault here, not JUST obamabot. Okay. Does that fucking make YOU feel better? A lot of us learned from 2000, took a chance that a 'new' administration MIGHT change things for the better and a lot of us, including me have been let down and in my case HUGELY disappointed. If the fucking rethugs win in 2014-16 we'll just suffer more and faster than the slow kill going on now. Grow up!. None of those branches of our so called checks and balances governing processes are doing a FUCKING thing 'for the people'(the 99%ers). One party will kill us slow, one party will kill us fast. No difference. I have given up on this so called democracy for THAT fact only!!!!! Democracy, WHAT A FUCKING JOKE. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Civilization2]

57. It is strange all the corporate-surveillance defenders keep claiming poor Obama is getting bashed,

however I have yet to see one post doing this,. can you point to one?

also stop YELLING!

People are rightly dissing the program, not Obama,. although he IS in a position to do SOMETHING about an illegal program funded by the NSA,. corporate contractors actually running it though,. .

P.S. What, pray tell, is the point of putting another dem into power when the one already there is just another corporate tool? Just asking.

[JEB]

62. I DON'T GIVE A TINKER'S DAMN WHO IS THE POTUS.

SPYING ON CITIZENS IS WRONG AND UNACCEPTABLE NO MATTER WHO IS IN OFFICE. 4TH AMENDMENT TO THE GOD DAMN PIECE OF PAPER THAT ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE SUPPOSED TO DEFEND. FUCKING GOT IT?

[MNBrewer]

65. You think Congress was involved in starting it?

[WilliamPitt]

68. WHAAAAAAAAAAAARGARBLE

of the day.

[KoKo]

71. We tried and it didn't work out for us...What's the next alternative?

[Harmony Blue]

73. Cool story

caps on cruise control doesn't make you awesome yo.

[Scurrilous]

74. Bravo.

Sometimes raising one's voice is necessary.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

75. Now, for the good news

ALL those D.C. crooks in the congress and senate are being watched too! and they are being watched by more people than the NSA! No more secret meetings, where they sell out their constituents! If they don't like it they can L.E.A.V.E. or begin to listen, instead of whispering about their next kick-back scheme. LOL!

[L0oniX]

76. Oh don't you worry your little brain ...we're zombie Dem voters no matter what.

If Obama killed off 1/2 of the population of USA I'd still vote for him ...after all he's better than the alternative.

[cali]

77. stop sending fucking loony tune pms

and take a damn break.

[baldguy]

81. Some people never learn. Others make it their job to ensure they never do.

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." Naive idealists have the best intentions of all.

[LWolf]

82. Once and for all.

That's a big load of arrogance.

First of all, using the phrase that tells us that, once you've made your pronouncement, discussion is over. The end. Period. Everything of value has been said, and nobody should speak after.

That's what that phrase means.

Then to "shout" what you have to say, as if yelling at people makes your point any more valid.

I always consider people who have to tantrum to make their point as weak.

That, and your rant is somewhat incoherent and your opinion is problematic from a rational standpoint.

[UrbScotty]

83. Best rant I've seen here in a while!

[tblue]

84. Did someone steal your caps lock key?

I always vote for Democrats. So don't yell no more. You're hurting my ears.

[WinkyDink]

86. Thanks for the tip.

[avebury]

87. Easier said then done when you live in a state where the

primary consideration for a political candidate is that he/she be batsh*t crazy.

[stupidicus]

92. BOO HOO, POOR BHO

GIVEN THAT MOST IF NOT ALL THE ILLEGAL STUFF AS i UNDERSTAND IT, ASSUMING IT HAS OCCURRED, HAS TO DO WITH INTERPRETATIONS OF THE LAW OR COURT OPINIONS BY THOSE OVERWHICH HE HAS DIRECT COMMAND AND CONTROL -- THAT CONGRESS HAS WHAT TO DO WITH -- HE DESERVES WHAT HE'S GETTING.

HE COULD SIMPLY DIRECT/COMMAND THEM NOT TO BE DOING IT, KINDA THE WAY HE QUIT DEFENDING DOMA, OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE, QUIT STONEWALLING CHALLENGES TO DETERMINE LEGALITY/CONSTITUTIONALITY WITH STATE SECRETS, IMMUNITY, NATIONAL SECURITY, ETC, DEFENSES.

[Logical]

96. Somebody needs a nap! LOL! n-t

[Harmony Blue]

97. Ouch.

[Aerows]

107. I can't decide whether he needs to lay off

the drugs or get on them immediately.

[Logical]

110. LOL, +1000 n-t

[snappyturtle]

98. Where's the unrec when I need it? Yelling never helps get a point across.

All of my anger is not focused on the President...only some of it. Calm down.

[Le Taz Hot]

100. Dude, switch to decalf.

[Jack Rabbit]

103. I agree

I probably blame Obama more than you do on this matter, but this is something a responsible Congress should have thrown in the face of any president (or usurper, in the case of the previous White House occupant) who told them he needed such an act.

No president should have the power to mandate the storing of personal data (and no, whoever wants to raise a stink about it, I don't care if the phone company technically owns that data) in order to research a crime that hasn't yet been committed. This is just one big, huge fishing expedition. If there are suspects, the government can start issuing warrants for their information any time. In the computer age, that information can be found easily enough.

There should be no secret laws, secret trials or secret courts. That's is perhaps the real problem here. The oversight of too much of this national security apparatus established since the end of World War II is insufficient to assure a defendant due process, the sin qua non of American jurisprudence.

The ultimate test should be the transparency of the process. If a defendant cannot face his accusers, then the process is unconstitutional. If a defendant is told that he cannot be informed of the charges against him because they are classified, then the process is unconstitutional. If the defendant or any one subjected to questioning is at any point in the process denied legal council, then the process is unconstitutional. If the Attorney General, whether it's Eric Holder, Alberto Gonzales or Robert Kennedy, says he doesn't need a warrant, then at least be very suspicious. Chances are that the process is unconstitutional.

We Americans are right to be alarmed about the present state of affairs. We were lied into a war that had nothing to do with national security and quite a bit to do with enriching Messers. Bush and Cheney's cronies. We were governed by decree and told that the Constitution those two reprobates and their underlings the power to rule by decree. I still haven't found in Constitution where it says that. We voted for President Obama because he promised a transparent government. Today, he continues to defend a system secret laws, secret trials and secret courts. Can any one honestly say he has delivered on that promise? Please, don't ask me to do it.

[Rex]

104. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!

Ahem, sorry had something in my throat. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

[Purveyor]

108. OBAMA OWNS THIS DEBACLE OF THE HANDLING OF SNOWDEN WHETHER SHOWDEN IN JUSTIFIED

OR NOT.

OBAMA 'OWNS THIS'...IF NOT, WHO THE FUCK IN RUNNING THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH?

[Agschmid]

109. Yup.

Also if it took Snowden for you to know what was going on around you, you weren't paying attention!

[bigtree]

113. voting is just ONE function of our responsibility to vigilance

. . .and I can only vote in my mostly liberal state. I can't account for everywhere else, and I'm not going to just stand still waiting for the next election to let these legislators and other government officials know that their snooping techniques are unacceptable.

Berating people for expecting more from the people we elect and expecting us to just fold our arms until the next election is something I'd expect from politicians, not DUers.

[Purveyor]

120. Hear, hear! +1000 eom

[xocet]

116. "AA!!!AAA!!!AAAA!!!!AAA!!!!!" seems to be the main content of the OP.

This might be similar:

The President controls the NSA - that is the bottom line.

[NuclearDem]

122. TEAM DEMOCRAT MUST WIN AT ANY COST

If it takes a Dem loss in 2014 to make the Congresscritters realize they can't take actual progressives and liberals for granted and continue to play their parts in abusing our civil liberties, then so FCUKING be it.

[vi5]

127. Congress controls the NSA, CIA, military, etc?

Interesting. I didn't learn that in civics class. I learned that ultimately they report in to the president and follow his orders.

[99Forever]

128. This is the most ridiculous bullshit rant...

... I have seen in quite a while.


Congrats. Now, get busy, there are boots to be licked.