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Member since: Fri Sep 17, 2004, 03:59 PM
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If faux-patriotic warmongers hadn't tortured anyone in 1st place-there would be no fucking report

No, releasing a report endangers nobody!
Actually TORTURING people endangered those lives!
If the faux-patriotic warmongers hadn't tortured anyone in the first place, there would be no fucking report.

"Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any prisoner. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require.
Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause... for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country."

- George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775

The defense failed, and the accused were convicted. Note that the Germans were able to demonstrate a process of maintaining discipline and punishing officers who disobeyed the rules of verschärfte Vernehmung (enhanced interrogation). By contrast, the Bush Administration has arguably (not) brought a single case of prosecution, against hundreds of documented cases of extreme abuse — including a great number documented by the FBI. So while there are distinctions to be drawn between the German practice of verschärfte Vernehmung and the Bush Administration’s “enhanced interrogation techniques,” a good many of these distinctions cut in favor of the Germans.

And let’s recall: what was the sentence the Norwegian war crimes court deemed appropriate for those convicted of the use of verschärfte Vernehmung? Death.


and yet........

'They Tried To Bury Us They Didn't Know We Were Seeds'

Incredible! @harvardmed students stage powerful protests.


We tortured others in the name of God. So where’s your God now?

Congress is afraid of the backlash. Members of the former administration are afraid of violence and death. The intelligence community is afraid – and the CIA is terrified. Foreign leaders are afraid.

And they should be.

Very likely there will be blood and violence. Very likely it will be the blood of innocent civilians and violence against US forces that had nothing to do with torture.

That’s the price we’re going to pay for this dirty shameful dishonor.

That’s the price we’re all going to pay for cowardly faceless men who traded their duty, and their honor, and their humanity for expediency and revenge and political advantage.

That’s the price we’re going to pay for religion. We tortured others in the name of God. So where’s your God now? If we are so righteous, where’s his protection and why are you so goddamned afraid?

If you’re afraid of what will happen when people find out that you’ve been torturing people, then maybe YOU SHOULDN’T GO AROUND TORTURING PEOPLE.

The coming violence, well, Folks, that’s the price we’re going to pay for selling our souls cheap.


Dick Cheney Was Lying About Torture - It’s official: torture doesn’t work.

Dick Cheney Was Lying About Torture
By Mark Fallon

It’s official: torture doesn’t work. Waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, did not in fact “produce the intelligence that allowed us to get Osama bin Laden," as former Vice President Dick Cheney asserted in 2011. Those are among the central findings of the Senate Intelligence Committee report on CIA interrogation and detention after 9/11

The report’s executive summary is expected to be released Tuesday. After reviewing thousands of the CIA’s own documents, the committee has concluded that torture was ineffective as an intelligence-gathering technique. Torture produced little information of value, and what little it did produce could’ve been gained through humane, legal methods that uphold American ideals.

I was aware of no valuable information that came from waterboarding. And the Senate Intelligence Committee—which had access to all CIA documents related to the “enhanced interrogation” program—has concluded that abusive techniques didn’t help the hunt for Bin Laden. Cheney’s claim that the frequent waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed “produced phenomenal results for us" is simply false.


Marcy Wheeler, the brilliant scholar-blogger who has for years pried deeply into available sources to come up with her extraordinary analyses of some of America's darker moments, points out that torturing information out of captives was only one part of the reason for doing so. Recruiting spies and spreading propaganda were two others.

And the purpose of that propaganda? Tying Iraq to al Qaeda and raising the threat of nuclear or dirty bomb terror:

Then it raises the really horrible possibility that Cheney pushed torture because it would produce the stories he wanted told. It would be difficult to distinguish whether Cheney believed this stuff and therefore that’s what the torture produced or whether Cheney wanted these stories told and that’s what the torture produced.
As Steven Kleinman said in an important Jason Leopold and Jeff Kaye story on this subject, the torture CIA used was designed to get false confessions, not accurate information:

“This is the guidebook to getting false confessions, a system drawn specifically from the communist interrogation model that was used to generate propaganda rather than intelligence,” Kleinman said in an interview. “If your goal is to obtain useful and reliable information this is not the source book you should be using.”

The people who approved torture had the means of knowing—should have known—it would elicit false confessions. It’s just that no one can prove whether that was the entire point or not.


The insane narrative you are supposed to believe about the torture report

CIA APOLOGISTS: "...this will be used by our enemies to motivate people to attack Americans and American facilities overseas,”

......to suggest that this Senate report will really tip the scales when it comes to the United States’ enemies rallying support, you have to believe that the following exchange is happening somewhere in the Middle East:

ABDUL: Ahmed, why won’t you come with me to attack the infidels? You are not outraged that the United States has invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and caused so much suffering in two Muslim countries?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged that in the past three years the great Zionist oppressor has waged air campaigns against two Arab countries — Syria and Libya — and accomplished little but to extend the suffering of our Muslim brothers and sisters?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged that the great Western imperialist power has launched drone strikes with impunity in two other countries — Yemen and Pakistan — killing scores of innocent Muslim families in the process?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged that the infidel superpower has defended Israel as that Zionist pig-state has done nothing but displace, bomb and humiliate our Palestinian brothers and sisters?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged that two successive U.S. presidents, in two flowery speeches, have claimed that the United States wants to bring human rights and democracy to the Middle East, only to tolerate authoritarian crackdowns in Egypt and the Gulf states?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged about all the stories of infidels torturing our Muslim brothers in Abu Ghraib, in Bagram, in Guantanamo Bay? The stories about infidel soldiers desecrating the Koran?

AHMED: It’s not enough for me to take up arms.

ABDUL: You are not outraged by the just-released Senate report about CIA torture?

AHMED: Wait, did you say ‘Senate report’? Okay, I will take up arms now.


Ferguson grand jury documents withheld

Neither the audio recording nor the transcript of Johnson's FBI interview was included in the materials released.
KSDK in St. Louis has the story.

A team of investigative reporters from around the country reviewed the transcripts released by McCulloch's office, which included law enforcement interviews with 24 witnesses. Most conspicuous in its absence was the joint federal-county interview with the witness who had been closest to the deadly confrontation, Michael Brown's friend Dorian Johnson.

McCulloch's office blamed the Feds:

McCulloch's executive assistant, Ed Magee, said the office released everything it still had when the case was closed, but had "turned over and relinquished control" of some FBI's interviews conducted in connection with the shooting.

There is one problem with this story that must be noted. The KSDK piece says:

McCulloch's office labeled the witness interview transcripts it released by witness number, up to Witness #64. But only 24 different witnesses' interviews with law enforcement were included in the information released.




Kinda Racist? Try Diet Racism!

The Official Beverage Of The Washington Redskins

The Brown/Garner Killings are about a Larger State of Official Terror - by Harvey Wasserman

The Brown/Garner Killings are about a Larger State of Official Terror

byHarvey Wasserman

America’s founders established grand juries to protect citizens from frivolous prosecution. But today’s corporate state has twisted the system to protect killer police from public scrutiny, putting them above the law.
The ultimate message is clear: police can kill American citizens without cause and face no public trial. (Steven Rosenfeld lays out the details at Alternet.)

The current focus is on skin color. Thankfully, Americans throughout the US have risen up in protest, demanding social justice and an end to racism.

But the larger issue is a police apparatus now inflicting random terror in service of a corporate state that has mutated far beyond public control.

We are still being assaulted by a cynical 40-year drug war used to disenfranchise and violate the basic rights of millions of Americans with no real recourse.

In the name of that drug war, and the one on terror, police randomly confiscate (steal) billions in cash from citizens of all races, in direct violation of the Bill of Rights and any sense of a real legal system.......


No Peace On Earth

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