Snowden meeting in Moscow with Human Rights Groups now (Live)

[Catherina]

Last edited Fri Jul 12, 2013, 05:07 PM - Edit history (2)

Update 2: Video Obviously shot surreptitiously as no cameras were allowed in

[hr]UPDATE: See post 137 for the actual statement. It cuts through all the tweets
Post 137: Statement by Edward Snowden to human rights groups at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport

The two follow-up threads discussing the Statement are:

ChimpyMustGo: Statement by Edward Snowden to human rights groups at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport
LuminousAnimal: Snowden's statement

[hr]
Original post:
Live video here: http://rt.com/on-air/snowden-meeting-rights-lawyers/ also (embedded in post #3 by Coyotl)

and possibly here: http://video.foxnews.com/v/1155606982001/

Background/lead-in thread by cal04 here

Utter chaos at Moscow Airport right now

Human rights lawyer Renata Avila says the UN High Commissioner for Refugees should be visiting Snowden along with Human Rights Watch today, since the UNHCR has "the mandate to facilitate his travels".

She adds that Venezuela has a "sour relationship" with HRW and she hopes that the meeting will not jeopardise Snowden's chances of gaining asylum there.

Avila says that the most important aspect of the Snowden case is the fact that "asylum is a human right. There is a set of BINDING rules for all states to accept, without exception."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/12/edward-snowden-to-meet-amnesty-and-human-rights-watch-at-moscow-airport-live-coverag#block-51dff774e4b019f8d7037abf

Live Updates from the UK Guardian here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/12/edward-snowden-to-meet-amnesty-and-human-rights-watch-at-moscow-airport-live-coverag

Live Updates from Voice of Russia here: http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_07_12/Snowden-meets-human-rights-activists-and-lawyers-at-Sheremetyevo-4029/

[Catherina]

1. Human rights activist being led one by one to the meeting with Snowden now

Meeting will begin in 10 minutes

[Coyotl]

16. Snowden e-mail inviting people to the event in progress now

[bunnies]

2. edit: link works now. nt

[Coyotl]

3. #snowden

https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%23Snowden&src=tyah

RT Russian:

#at=1946

Chaos at airport:

[Catherina]

5. Terrific! Thank you n/t

[Coyotl]

6. You are welcome. I came to GD to start this thread!

[Catherina]

7. Lol! Sorry I beat you, I would have worked in your thread

Thanks for co-operating. I'm trying to shut down about 40 windows so I really appreciate you being here.

Snowden is already in the room

[snooper2]

115. That poor kid at the bottom of the escalator

He is like-

"You know what all you fuckers, screw this Snowy guy! All this shit over one idiot who leaked shit we already knew. Now all you assholes are here and made me lose my charger for my Nook. SOMEBODY better help me find it!

[Catherina]

4. There are rumors among Sheremetyevo staff that Snowden might have a flight today

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 27s

There are rumors among Sheremetyevo staff members that Snowden might have a flight today via @IrinaGalushkoRT pic.twitter.com/S0wDnnL4K6

[chimpymustgo]

8. Thank you! Tuning into RT now. Please let him get out safely.

[Catherina]

98. Obviously that rumor was quite false lol. n/t

[Catherina]

9. Official vehicle of Department of Presidential Affairs just passed by the terminal n/t

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 39s

Official vehicle of Department of Presidential Affairs just passed by the terminal - #VoR corr @PChernitsa_VR reports #Snowden

[allin99]

10. Good. Oh, what does this Mean? ...

UNHCR has "the mandate to facilitate his travels".

Does this mean facilitate is travels as in help him gain asylum, or to actually help get him there.

[Coyotl]

11. Video not allowed in meeting btw #Snowden and around 8 Russian human rights figures. It begins.

Ellen Barry @EllenBarryNYT
Video not allowed in meeting btw #Snowden and around 8 Russian human rights figures. It begins.

Bricio Segovia ?@briciosegovia 3m
#Snowden is to announce his "next step" at a press conference starting shortly. Will he reveal his destination country? #Russia #Moscow

Michael ?@_cypherpunks_ 6m
#Snowden is already in a special room where the meeting will be held

https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%23Snowden&src=tyah

[karynnj]

91. Maybe the Russian human rights people need to examine this policy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3226296

[Coyotl]

93. Not a policy. It is Snowden's meeting and his decision. Read his e-mail. n/t

[karynnj]

103. I read his not all that impressive email

My point is that Russia is NOT a country known for respecting human rights - and has never been exemplary on this - not now, not under communism and not under the Czars.

[kentuck]

12. Last tweet says 8 "Russian human rights figures"/

"Video not allowed in meeting btw #Snowden and around 8 Russian human rights figures. It begins."
=============
Is it only Russians?

[Catherina]

18. There are a TON of people there

but the HRW reps there are Russians who work for the US organization. I don't think HRW flew in anyone special because they weren't even going to attend until there was an uproar in Russia about that.

[Catherina]

13. And here's Snowden

That's Sarah Harrison of WikiLeaks on his right

[kentuck]

17. Looks a little gaunt and pale...

from this perspective.

I think he may be calling this meeting for his own protection. He may be concerned about Russia's plans and wants the human rights people to know where he is and how he has been treated?

[allin99]

15. and i'm glad to hear he is not dead.

[Agschmid]

43. Why would he be dead? n/t

[morningfog]

51. Because the CIA has a nasty habit of offing people.

[Agschmid]

74. They do?

Well it seems like it is different this time...

[Octafish]

203. CIA contracted with the Mafia in 1960 to do that to Castro. Wet work continues to present day.

The CIA Enlisted the Mafia to Kill Fidel Castro in 1960

And in more recent days...

Blackwater managed CIA Predator drone assassination program

As for Snowden's go-to reporter...

DC Journo Overhears Intel Pros Talking About ‘Disappearing’ NSA Leaker, Glenn Greenwald

[Agschmid]

204. Sorry should have added sarcasm tag.

[allin99]

58. He just hadn't been heard from in so long and the...

FM of venezuela yesterday said he hadn't heard from him, which i found quite odd since he applied for amnesty there and it be a week.

[Coyotl]

19. #Venezuela says #Snowden yet to reply to asylum offer

IASW ?@IASecurity 1m
#Venezuela says #Snowden yet to reply to asylum offer http://bit.ly/12rP7cA http://fb.me/2oQ1Wg82R

[allin99]

120. This is bizarre. He even said he wants to thank them in person...

and yet has not gotten back to them. wth?

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

20. Meeting with "human rights" groups in a Moscow airport, rather than defense attorneys

in an American jail is a joke and a travesty.

[marions ghost]

92. More coffee?

Welcome to DU, AINIC. Since you seem to have an interest in this particular topic, I look forward to your fleshing out your viewpoint. And so tell us why you put "human rights" in quotes....

with that?

[HardTimes99]

112. I'd also like an explanation for the quote marks. Perhaps that poster does not believe

in such a thing as "human rights"?

Thanks for flagging this. needed to be called out in a major way.

[marions ghost]

116. Makes ya wonder

thanx for seconding.

[HardTimes99]

121. Or, perhaps, just perhaps, he or she believes in "human rights," but not

in "human rights groups". I'm not holding my breath waiting for an explanation, though. Poster is probably one of those folks who view human rights as 'quaint and obsolete'. Now where have I heard that phrase before?????

[marions ghost]

128. If so

only the "groups" would be in quotes.

Yes, I do think there are those around these days who have no concept of human rights, except as it pertains to them.

-------

For anyone wondering what they are, here's a list of them (too long to post):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_rights_organisations

[HardTimes99]

134. Oh yeah, I'm with you 100%. The point is that by putting quote marks around the phrase, the

poster somehow views it as just another 'brand,' like Apple or Monsanto. Pretty fucking pathetic, if you ask me.

Thanks for the link. Bookmarking for later reference.

[marions ghost]

153. Yeah, a weaselly way of insinuating

that human rights are somehow the domain of a few, on the margins. Your comparison to a 'brand' is insightful. Thanks.

[Zen Democrat]

167. JMO, but I think human rights in Moscow should be put in quotes, because there isn't any such thing.

Are you not aware of Putin jailing or worse, offing, the dissidents in Russia, or anyone who has a chance of winning an election against him? "Human rights" in Russia are definitely questionable. Russia is a full-blown plutocracy and only the billionaires play - and don't rock the boat if they want to live.

[marions ghost]

170. I see that but

I also think that we have people in our government who would do the same if they had a chance (not pointing to BO here--we all know who the worst offenders are). And seeing the lengths to which our corporate-controlled militarist plutocracy is willing to go to harvest and analyze and ultimately control the world's info stream--gives me more worries about that totalitarian mindset getting a further foothold right here. If we don't stand up for our constitutional rights we COULD end up where Russia is.

That's the brutal truth that a lot of people don't want to face.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

187. I side with the White House on this issue 100% in respecting the work of human rights groups

But thinking they're wrong in classifying this as a human rights case.

[HardTimes99]

193. So you think human rights groups are wrong to

classify L'Affaire Snowden as a 'human rights' case? (Parsing your unclear pronoun references and extrapolating from the general tenor of your remarks).

You accept the idea that 'human rights' exist but just don't think the Snowden Affair reaches that threshhold? I guess the torture of Bradley Manning, Jose Padilla and (arguably) John Walker Lindh while in the U.S.'s pre-trial custody doesn't play a role in your determination?

So, then, what would it take to make this, in your words, a "human rights case"?

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

185. Because as Jay Carney said this afternoon, human rights groups do a lot of good work

But this is not a human rights case.

[marions ghost]

189. What reason did he give

that this is not a human rights case? Of course we know the big reason why he would say that, but what reason did he give.

[frylock]

156. nobody here is laughing

[Catherina]

21. meeting with Snowden has begun

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

Live UPD: The meeting with #Snowden has begun - Tatyana #Lokshina from Human Rights Watch.

[Coyotl]

22. MJ: The Doubters Are Wrong: Edward Snowden Is a Game-Changer

The Doubters Are Wrong: Edward Snowden Is a Game-Changer
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/07/edward-snowden-public-opinion

One of the arguments about Edward Snowden that I've occasionally gotten caught up in is: What difference has he made? Has he really told us very much we didn't know before?

In a broad sense, you can argue that he hasn't. We knew (or certainly suspected) that NSA was collecting enormous streams of telephone metadata. We knew they were issuing subpoenas for data from companies like Google and Microsoft. We knew that Section 702 warrants were very broad. We knew that domestic data sometimes got inadvertantly collected. We knew that massive amounts of foreign phone and email traffic were monitored.

As it happens, we've learned more than just this from the documents on Snowden's four laptops. Still, even if you accept this argument in general terms—and I've made it myself—Snowden still matters. It's one thing to know about this stuff in broad strokes. It's quite another to have specific, documented details. That's what Snowden has given us, .....

[Autumn]

95. Great article. Thank you for that.

"This is how change happens. The public gets hit over the head with something, lawmakers are forced to take notice, and maybe, just maybe, Congress holds oversight hearings and decides to change the law. There's no guarantee that will happen this time, but it might. And regardless of how "new" Edward Snowden's revelations have been, we have him to thank for this.

[Catherina]

23. will submit an asylum claim to Russia, plans to go to Latin America eventually

Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 1m

From @TanyaLokshina @hrw Today, he will submit an asylum claim to Russia, plans to go to Latin America eventually.
Details
Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 1m

Updates are from @TanyaLokshina @hrw: He wants help in guarantee of safe passage to Latin America
Details
Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 3m

Word from mtg prtcipnt: #Snowden says he accepts all offers, present and future. With Venezuela the asylum state is formal.

[FarCenter]

26. Will he comply with Putin's condition that he not publicly disclose further information?

[bunnies]

33. And is that offer even still on the table?

Pretty sure Obama said he wont go to Russia to meet Pootie in the fall if Snowdens still there.

[morningfog]

40. It sounds like the offer is still there, and it sounds like Snowden would take it only

as a meens to ensure safe passage to Venezuela.

[bunnies]

42. Itll be interesting to see how the Prez reacts to this.

Wish they'd have let us all see the meeting!

[randome]

52. So much for transparency!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[bunnies]

65. Alas... details are leaking out anyway.

[alcibiades_mystery]

76. ROFL

[randome]

27. It's kind of insulting to Russia, isn't it?

I would like to request asylum in your country but I really don't want to stay for very long.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[FarCenter]

29. Russia will turn out to be his "Hotel California"

You can check in, but you can't check out.

[morningfog]

32. Not at all. Russia set conditions. He doesn't want to be bound by those conditions,

but may need time to sort out all of his plans.

[randome]

39. He's clearly going to be bound to those conditions for the time being.

He'll need a passport to travel, no? Russia may not allow him to have one if he is upfront about wanting to leave, especially with his propensity for running with national security documents in hand.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[morningfog]

41. Russia has, since the beginning, wanted him to move along.

Why would they not help facilitate that?

[randome]

49. Putin is trying to play a delicate game.

He doesn't mind sticking it to the U.S. by granting Snowden asylum because he can say, "What else could I do? He asked for asylum."

But it may be another thing entirely if he's seen as actively aiding Snowden in escaping from the U.S., which would be the reasonable conclusion to reach when granting temporary asylum to someone.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[morningfog]

57. That doesn't make sense.

Granting asylum for any reason, permanent or to travel, would be actively aiding Snowden. Likewise, granting asylum for either reason could also be argued that it was necessary upon request.

[randome]

62. In politics, optics matter.

It's speculation on my part, of course.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[FarCenter]

55. They could move him to Krasnoyarsk -- It's probably quite nice this time of year

Putin is not enthusiatic about human rights NGOs. Didn't Russia just require NGOs to register as foreign agents, etc?

I'd think that his contact with NGOs will diminish fairly rapidly in Russia, and that the FSB will arrange accommodations for him, probably not in Moscow or St Petersburg.

Their objective would be to acquire all his information while defuzing his ability to trigger the release of more information.

[marions ghost]

36. The Russians have made it clear

the feeling is mutual. No big insult to Russia there.

[morningfog]

38. It sounds like he needs the Russian asylum to protect his travel to Venezuela.

That makes sense.

[allin99]

125. The threats to Latin America are getting pretty bad, i commend them for...

standing up the U.S. but i don't think they can afford to take him.

[randome]

127. And yet he didn't even bother to respond to Venezuela's offer.

Doesn't sound like he wants to go to Venezuela at all. Although why he wants to voluntarily go to Latin America is strange.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[morningfog]

136. Not true.

Snowden says he accepts all offers, present and future. With Venezuela the asylum state is formal.

In your drive to disparage Snowden, you regularly get it wrong.

[randome]

139. 'Accepts all offers' is a meaningless phrase. Who claims him then?

And he still didn't respond formally to Venezuela's formal offer.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[morningfog]

142. Again, you are playing catch up.

"...the grant of asylum provided by Venezuela’s President Maduro, my asylee status is now formal, and no state has a basis by which to limit or interfere with my right to enjoy that asylum."

From Snowden's statement today.

You are going to have to drop back to one of your other lame criticisms.

[randome]

146. That was posted while I was composing. Of course I'm playing catch up. We all are.

But simply because Snowden used the word 'formal' does not mean he responded in a formal manner. He is past the deadline Venezuela set for his acceptance. It remains to be seen if that deadline was real or not.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[morningfog]

149. Hahaha, hang on to that.

You are grasping at straws. Why? I have no idea.

[FarCenter]

24. So he actually flew to Russia, despite all the comments that he was probably in Hong Kong or ?????

We can dismiss an entire genre of conspiracy theories.

[Recursion]

35. As well as my suspicion that he was fictional

Oh well, I kind of liked that one, but there it goes.

[Catherina]

25. says govts in W. Europe, N.America are acting outside the law, preventing me from traveling.

Snowden says govts in W. Europe, N.America are acting outside the law, preventing me from traveling.

Snowden says he has received offers from Venezuela, Russia, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Ecuador, and thanks them.

says wants help in guarantee of safe passage to Latin America.

"I am only in a position to accept Russia's offer because of my inability to travel."

Snowden says he can only have guaranteed safety to stay in Russia with asylum, so asking for it

asks Russia for temp asylum today; will go to Latin America eventually

said he has received offers from Venezuela, Russia, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Ecuador. He says he accepts all offers, present/future.

[FarCenter]

30. "outside the law"? or simply using standard criminal procedures?

[Catherina]

37. HR lawyer: "UN mechanisms should ensure Snowden's rights. That is not the role of HR NGOs"

Renata Avila ?@avilarenata 31s

.@UN mechanisms should take a central role in ensuring #Snowden rights. That is not the role of HR NGO´s. What are they waiting for?

Renata Avila ?@avilarenata 19s

@sarahkendzior @STrimel PRECISELY. They have no mandate to assist asylum procedures. It will damage rather than help both in Ru and Latam.

[FarCenter]

70. The United States provides 22% of the United Nations budget.

[HardTimes99]

119. Translation: "It's our U.N. goddamnit. We paid for it!" (Reminds me of the

old joke about Nelson Rockefeller's campaign for the Republican presdiential nomination: "He owns the country by God, so he ought to be able to run it!&quot

[FarCenter]

123. It's the Golden Rule -- he who has the gold makes the rules.

[GeorgeGist]

201. Spoken like a dyedinthewool one percenter ...

Wannabe.

[FarCenter]

202. Denying that money buys influence is like denying that gravity pulls things to the earth.

[allin99]

46. Confused, is asylum still def. an option from Russia?

[bunnies]

83. Looks like Russia may have backed off from that original offer a bit.

An article from yesterday said that Russia would be will to "consider" asylum. Its not a sure thing.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/11/edward-snowden-russia-asylum-request

[allin99]

84. Thanks. EEP! Am on the edge of my seat.

[brooklynite]

28. Is TGI Fridays catering?

Or did they go with Dunkin Donuts?

[Coyotl]

31. #Snowden has received asylum offers from Venezuela, Russia, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Ecuador, per Huma

Dean Zambrano ?@DeanZambrano 1m

RT @AlexJamesFitz: #Snowden has received asylum offers from Venezuela, Russia, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Ecuador, per Human Rights Watch

[randome]

54. He turned down Russia once. I suppose he needs to apply again.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[bunnies]

77. As of yesterday, Russia has only offered to "consider" asylum.

According to the Guardian. hmmm

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/11/edward-snowden-russia-asylum-request

[morningfog]

34. Great stuff. So we know he is alive, still in Moscow and organizing his options.

[Catherina]

45. Yes. Basically would like to stay in Russia until he can fly to Latin America safely n/t

[brooklynite]

44. Any idea where this is?

Doesn't look like any section of the transit lounge I was in last month.

[Catherina]

47. Asks wants intl orgs to petition the United States, EU not to interfere

Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 1m

Snowden is saying he seeks to remain in Russia and travel. He wants intl orgs to petition the United States, EU not to interfere. from @hrw

[Ichingcarpenter]

63. article 14 of the UN

which the US is a signatory.

Looks like he's lawyering up to make travel easier.

Must of had contact with embassies stating he need more help to fight US bullying.

[morningfog]

48. US, Russia play waiting game over Snowden: report

MOSCOW — US authorities have stopped pushing Russia to extradite US leaker Edward Snowden, who has been holed up in a Moscow airport for almost three weeks, with the two sides now playing a waiting game, the Interfax news agency reported Thursday.

"Unlike in the first stage..., the Americans have stopped turning to the Russian side with some kind of request," a source familiar with the situation was quoted as saying by the agency.

"There has not been any request either through official or unofficial channels for several days now," the source told the agency.

"All the interested parties have gone into a wait-and-see mode and the process related to the US request about his extradition has gone on the backburner."

"From all appearances, each side is hoping to come out of this complicated, dead-end situation without losing face."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jEcXEtHq6uMXvKEOVCdyWFnLN4Zg?docId=CNG.0b158ae7636bdf40201d693a2bc2bf0b.51

[allin99]

78. Yeah, let's see the U.S. try to push Russia around like they do L.A....

i detest Putin, DETEST, but see how the U.S. doesn't fucking dare say anything to him. Cuz we can't pick on someone our own size, just pick on the poorer countries.

this is just too much. Not proud of my country right now.

[backscatter712]

168. That may be why Russia's going to be Snowden's place of asylum.

It's simple. Russia's big and powerful enough that they can extend a middle finger to the U.S., and has plenty of domestic political reasons to do so.

Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador aren't powerful - the U.S. has demonstrated clearly they've got the means and willingness to coerce them.

[Catherina]

50. No actions I take or plan are meant to harm the US so Putin's condition poses no obstacle

Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 2m

"No actions I take or plan are meant to harm the US," Snowden says, so Putin's condition poses no obstacle, @TanyaLokshina @hrw reports

[bunnies]

53. "Venezuela has a "sour relationship" with HRW"

Whys that? Anyone know?

[karynnj]

101. Here's the HRW record for 2013 - and it isn't good

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/venezuela

Just because they are on the left does not mean they are good on human rights issues.

[bunnies]

129. Thanks for the link.

A lot there I didnt know about. wow.

[Catherina]

56. Being stuck in airport has limitations for appealing to intl organizations

Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 47s

Snowden said he cannot appeal to intl organizations bc they require you to come to them, he is in airport, @TanyaLokshina says

[Catherina]

59. says he is recognized as asylum seeker by UNHCR but US doesn't acknowledge (Morales plane)

Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 1m

Snowden says he is recognized as asylum seeker by UNHCR but US doesn't acknowledge, as evident in Morales situation, @TanyaLokshina reports

[Catherina]

60. "No actions I take or plan are meant to harm the US...I want the US to succeed."

Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 1m

Fuller #Snowden quote: "No actions I take or plan are meant to harm the US...I want the US to succeed." from @TanyaLokshina @hrw

[Catherina]

69. #Snowden sees logic: His work is not meant to damage US, so Putin's condition is no obstacle.n/t

Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 21s

Based on meeting reports, #Snowden sees logic: His work is not meant to damage US, so Putin's condition is no obstacle.

[Catherina]

87. Has he agreed to stop leaking, or is he making the case that leaking is not damaging to America?

Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 3m

Has #Snowden agreed to stop leaking, or is he making the case that leaking is not damaging to American interests?

[FarCenter]

94. What Snowden thinks is damaging is irrelevant -- it is what Putin thinks that counts.

[karynnj]

105. Can he really not see that he has damaged US relations with many countries

- causing the Obama administration to scramble to maintain as much goodwill as possible?

[allin99]

132. If the U.S. hasn't done anything wrong then eventually...

those relationships will be fine, and if the U.S. *has* done something wrong, than it is the U.S.' fault, not Snowden's.

[HardTimes99]

145. And further to that point: if the USA has

done nothing wrong, then it has nothing to hide or to fear.

Channeling my inner Lindsey Graham this morning

[karynnj]

155. So, you are saying that every person who is given a security clearance has the right to determine

whether he or she thinks the information should be made public.

There was a comment made that these disclosures alert terrorists to stop using communication methods that have allowed us to track them over the last several years - such as Skype. Do you by any chance remember that in 2004, Senator Kerry spoke of using international intelligence and international law enforcement primarily to reduce terrorism to a point where it was a "nuisance" and we could move away from the threat of terrorism affecting our lives? This was an alternative to the Bush doctrine that called for regime change whenever we thought it warranted.

Although we will likely never know if it happens, if these details facilitate even one attack - that might otherwise have been stopped - Snowden has done damage.

[noamnety]

138. No, the US's actions damaged US relations with many countries.

It's like having a family member turn you in for a crime. Is the problem that the family member was disloyal to you and ratted you out, or that you committed the crime in the first place?

Who is ultimately accountable for the actions the other countries are pissed about?

[karynnj]

148. That would be true if the US uniquely did these things

In fact, it is very clear that there is spying all around. Do you honestly thing that Putin, former KGB officer, is genuinely shocked or even surprised about the revelations?

It is the fact that it is PUBLIC that is giving countries like Russia a PR benefit. The Chinese referred to it as removing the mask of sanctimony.

Not to mention, what you say does NOT change the fact that Snowden's betrayal of the promises he made when given a clearance have hurt the US.

[SunSeeker]

158. Exactly! nt

[noamnety]

160. Is the standard for whistleblowing that only their org must be corrupt?

That's a bit like saying a whistleblower within the catholic church is somehow less moral or less justified in going public because children get abused all over the place, it's not unique to the catholic church.

You could argue I suppose that if everyone knows it's happening anyway, and it happens in all sorts of youth organizations, coming forward as an insider is a betrayal of the church, and only an extremely disloyal person would set about to create such a PR nightmare for it.

How you view it might depend on whether you think the person should have ultimate loyalty to the church's leadership, the church as an organization, or the teachings of the church.

In any event, I would say that the resulting PR nightmare is the result of the church's actions, not the whistleblowers actions for exposing them.

[karynnj]

194. I don't equate child abuse with collecting phone and internet records

Anyone paying attention in Dec 2006 through August 2007 KNEW that Congress approved the FISA bill that allowed the collection of telephone usage information. What the government did was neither illegal or immoral - and the purpose is to detect terrorists before they strike.

I really have no more problem with the government having my phone records than the phone company having them. In the first place, it is extremely unlikely that the NSA would ever find me suspect (or interesting) enough to spend the resources to profile me. I have MORE of a problem with the massive amount of data the credit rating companies have on me - this is a far richer, more detailed data base -- and they have at times sold the information to third parties.

My point is that Snowden took a job that required promising not to leak classified information - and it may have been his intent EVEN AS HE SIGNED THAT AGREEMENT to do just that. You can't have everyone working with sensitive information deciding UNILATERALLY what they can put out. (ie what if someone working for the IRS decided that entire tax returns of everyone in his town - coincidentally yours - should be public information and put it out on a web site.

[noamnety]

196. Yes, I can see that your focus is whether or not he signed a nondisclosure agreement.

We can both agree that this is your personal moral line that you don't believe anyone can cross.

Other people prioritize ethics differently. The world isn't always so black and white in terms of ethics.

[karynnj]

200. We also that the collection of all this data is immoral or unethical

I don't see that it is a moral issue - which child abuse is.

For the record, I do not see violating that promise as immoral - I do see it as unethical to take the job with the intention to gather and release classified information.

[noamnety]

195. Depends how you define "hurt"

It hurts our reputation to have our wrongdoings exposed. It helps our democracy to have them exposed. Same again as church whistleblowers. It simultaneously hurts the church and helps the church to have whistleblowers expose scandals within it. The recent vatican whistleblower was working with classified documents that he had no legal right to leak. I don't recall anyone on DU being horrified at his being a traitor, oddly. You have to figure out where your priorities lie (the organization's reputation, or the ethics of their policies) in order to figure out what you think is right or wrong.

[allin99]

151. Exactly. The U.S. had a hell of a lot of nerve to say that Latin America...

is damaging our relationship with them AFTER they grounded bolivia's plane.

[brooklynite]

61. Okay - we're in the check-in area of Sheremetyevo Terminal "D"

[Catherina]

64. Press is not at meeting, only HR activists

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 37s

RT @PChernitsa_VR:Meeting is held w/out the press,human rights activists have been taken smwhr on a bus,key statements made w/out the press

[Catherina]

66. As an aside: Snowden T-shirts in the major clothing stores of Berlin, Germany

d. smith ?@seinsfrage 13s

“@Lukewearechange: There are Snowden T-shirts in the major clothing stores of Berlin, Germany pic.twitter.com/wjVBTghv7Z” Cc @CassandraRules

I want one

[allin99]

73. awesome. cuz this is BULLSHIT. I feel as oppressed as i did under Giuliani.

[Catherina]

67. Says he is recognized as an asylum seeker by UNHCR but US doesn't acknowledge it n/t

[Coyotl]

68. Breaking: Snowden asks for asylum in Russia

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014534859

[Catherina]

71. Human rights activists are approaching the journalists and are commenting on the meeting now n/t

[Catherina]

72. Peskov: Kremlin has no confirmation of #Snowden appeal for asylum, but conditions are the ones Putin

Ellen Barry ?@EllenBarryNYT 3m

Peskov tells Ifax that Kremlin has no confirmation of #Snowden appeal for asylum, but conditions are the ones Putin articulated July 1.

[Catherina]

75. Duma deputy: Snowden said he will easily fulfill the conditions of the Russian Federation to stay

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

#Snowden said he will easily fulfill the conditions of the Russian Federation to stay in this country - Nikonov, Duma deputy

[Catherina]

79. Kremlin has no confirmation of Snowden's appeal, conditions remain the same

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

#Kremlin has no confirmation of #Snowden's appeal for political asylum in Russia; conditions remain the same - Kremlin spokesman

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

#Snowden could hypothetically stay in #Russia if he fully stops activities causing damage to Russia's US partners - Kremlin spokesman

[Catherina]

80. Snowden feels fine, sleeps here at the airport and feels safe in Russia

Olaf Koens ?@obk 2m

Tanya Lokshina of @HRW tells that Snowden feels fine, sleeps here at the airport and feels safe in Russia

[Catherina]

81. wants human rights organizations to petition US, EU not to interfere with his asylum process

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

#Snowden wants human rights organizations to petition US, EU not to interfere with his asylum process – HRW

[Catherina]

82. If #Snowden oficially requests political #asylum in Russia, his request will be processed - #Kremlin

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

If #Snowden oficially requests political #asylum in Russia, his request will be processed - #Kremlin spokesman

[FarCenter]

89. Processing his request may take some time

Russia is in the driver's seat now, and this will be the start of negotiations.

[randome]

110. "No actions I take or plan are meant to harm the US."

Doesn't sound like he's serious about knuckling under to Putin's terms, which may mean that Russia will not be serious about granting him asylum.

You're right, Russia is in the driver's seat. But I think Snowden thinks he is.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[FarCenter]

118. His psychological posture has been consistent -- he thinks that he is very important

It is a delusion common to sports stars, media personalities, politicians and other "celebrities".

They don't consider the fact that they are just 1 out of 7,000,000,000 bags of flesh.

[marions ghost]

143. The US official bullying posture has been consistent,

& they act like masters of the universe who know no boundaries (obviously, not gonna list the reasons--it's obvious)--so at least admit that is true, if you want to call Snowden a megalomaniac. We ain't the "good guys" anymore. The US behavior in this is shameful, very disheartening.

"It appears that U.S. efforts have prevented Mr. Snowden from receiving fair and impartial consideration of his application for asylum in many of the countries to which he reportedly applied. These efforts allegedly led to an unprecedented event last week when Bolivian President Evo Morales' plane was denied the use of airspace by several European countries and forced to land in Austria. Once on the ground, the plane was reportedly searched because American intelligence officials believed that Mr. Snowden was on board."

[randome]

159. 'Allegedly'. And Spain says their ambassador in Austria was responsible for the panic attack.

And Austria says the President's plane was not searched.

But of course it's conceivable everyone is lying except Snowden and that Obama is issuing threats and attempting to blackmail the world and is silently fuming 24/7 but...I doubt that.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[marions ghost]

162. Nothing so extreme

maybe Europe over-reacted to American pushing on the plane matter, but we know that it occurred.

I don't think Obama is evil, blackmailing the world--just using strong diplomatic pressure. Business as usual in some ways. The US is, no surprise, acting like a bully. We didn't get the reputation of World Cop for nothing over the last decade or so. The problem is, now we want to own the world's information banks into the bargain.

It's up to the people to object, because many corporate governments have obviously been sold on it. That is a major revelation.

[Catherina]

85. Wikileaks will release Snowden's statement to human rights groups early this evening

WikiLeaks ?@wikileaks 1m

We will be releasing Edward #Snowden's statement to human rights groups early this evening.

[allin99]

86. How ironic would it be if Russia played peacemaker by giving him asylum...

cuz i know (fuckface) Putin wants the issue to die just as much as everyone else.

this is fucking wild. I hope he decides to play peacemaker

...(as he's arresting all the freakin' gay people in Russia that POS)

[Catherina]

88. If people wish for #Snowden to not ask #Russia for help, they should ensure he may freely travel

Jacob Appelbaum, another person being persecuted by our government, comments

Jacob Appelbaum ?@ioerror 1m

If people wish for #Snowden to not ask #Russia for help, they should ensure he may freely travel as he wishes to more democratic countries.

[Catherina]

90. has written request for political asylum, Russian law allows its being granted - lawyer Kucherena

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

#Snowden has written request for political #asylum in Russia already, Russian law allows its being granted - Anatoly Kucherena, lawyer

[dbackjon]

96. Are the Human Rights Groups going to meet with Putin

About the Anti-Gay laws?



Doubt it

[bunnies]

140. Nah.

Cant you see theyre working on important things right now?

[Catherina]

97. Russian Deputy: He feels he is right. Is on the blacklist for many airlines

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 47s

Live UPD: Nikonov: #Snowden was a little bit nervous. But he feels that he is right

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 45s

#Snowden has no ID now, his American passport was annulled. He’s on the blacklist for many airlines - Nikonov, Duma deputy

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 56s

#Snowden told me he'd been to more dangerous places so he likes it here in Russia. He said it’s safe in Russia - Duma Deputy.

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 13s

At the moment #Snowden is looking into options of getting an asylum in any country - Nikonov, Duma Deputy

[Catherina]

99. Snowden's asylum plea irrelevant if he declines #Russia's terms - Human Rights Council head n/t

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 2m

#Snowden's asylum plea irrelevant if he declines #Russia's terms - Human Rights Council head

[Catherina]

100. presidential council: will provide legal support to Snowden in going thru political asylum process

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 17s

Anatoly Kucherena,member of the presidential council:I will provide legal support to #Snowden in going through political asylum procedures

[Catherina]

104. Russian Federal Migration Service: We not yet received an application for political asylum

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 25s

Live UPD: The Russian Federal Migration Service (FMS) has not yet received an application for political asylum from #Snowden

[Catherina]

102. must be given refugee status, preferably by UN,or Red Cross,not Russia - Russian commissioner for HR

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 16s

#Snowden must be given refugee status, preferably by UN,or Red Cross,not Russia - Russian commissioner for human rights, Lukin

[Ichingcarpenter]

109. I said this early today before the conference

pat on the back to me...LOL


Thanks for all the updates.

[Catherina]

106. Russia cannot extradite Snowden - deputy Nikonov

Russia cannot extradite Snowden - deputy Nikonov
Вячеслав Никонов



State Duma deputy Vyacheslav Nikonov

Photo: RIA Novosti

Russia has no right to extradite former CIA officer Edward Snowden, State Duma deputy Vyacheslav Nikonov said. He came to the Moscow Sheremetyevo Airport to meet with Snowden.



"Russia has no right to extradite him by international law. He is under protection of Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which says any person who asks for political asylum cannot be extradited," he stressed.

Voice of Russia, Interfax

http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_07_12/Russia-cannot-extradite-Snowden-deputy-Nikonov-1051/

[Catherina]

107. Search of Morales plane in Vienna showed those who are looking for him may resort 2 extreme measures

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

Search of the plane of #Morales in Vienna showed those who are looking for him may resort to extreme measures to catch #Snowden - official

[allin99]

113. However ironic Russia talking about human rights is, it makes sense about...

their treatment of the President of Bolivia. That was beyond extreme. BEYOND.

[Catherina]

108. statement would be set forth in a letter to President Putin

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 2m

Public Chamber member:The statement would be set forth in a letter to President Putin.#Snowden does not want to harm the US' interests

[Catherina]

111. Russia's oldest human rights activist: grant asylum, don't fear deterioration of relations with US

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 49s

Russia's oldest human rights activist:Russia should grant asylum to #Snowden and not to fear the deterioration of relations with US

[Catherina]

114. ACLU: right to asylum is universal. US is interfering with that right

ACLU National ?@ACLU 1m

The right to seek asylum is universal. In Edward #Snowden's case, the U.S. is interfering with that right http://www.aclu.org/blog/human-rights-national-security/us-actions-snowden-case-threaten-right-seek-asylum …

U.S. Actions in Snowden Case Threaten Right to Seek Asylum
By Jamil Dakwar, Director, ACLU Human Rights Program & Chandra Bhatnagar, Senior Staff Attorney, ACLU Human Rights Program at 4:16pm

Revelations about the NSA's secret surveillance activities continue to make headlines both at home and abroad. In the last week alone, Brazil expressed concern about recent reports of NSA spying on millions of Brazilian citizens, the European Parliament adopted a resolution authorizing its Civil Liberties Committee to launch an "in-depth inquiry" into U.S. surveillance programs, and Germany made clear that EU concerns over U.S. spying would not be ignored. In addition to outrage over the NSA's activities, much attention has been paid to Edward Snowden's whereabouts. (He continues to be stranded in the transit area of the Moscow airport from where he reportedly has sought asylum in at least 21 countries.)

While it remains unclear where Mr. Snowden will ultimately end up and how he will be able to leave Russia, U.S. actions to secure his extradition must take place within an acceptable legal framework protecting his right to seek asylum.

Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) states that "[e]veryone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution. This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations." The American Convention on Human Rights explicitly provides for a right of an individual "to seek and be granted asylum in a foreign territory, in accordance with the legislation of the state and international conventions, in the event he is being pursued for political offenses or related common crimes."

In the case of Mr. Snowden, the United States has interfered with his right to seek asylum in two significant ways. First, the U.S. revoked Mr. Snowden's passport. While this action does not render Mr. Snowden "stateless" (because he is still a U.S. citizen), it does make it extremely difficult for him to travel or seek asylum, especially in countries that require asylees to be present in their territory at the time of the request. Second, while the United States is within its rights to seek Mr. Snowden's extradition to face charges in the United States, diplomatic and law enforcement efforts to extradite him must be consistent with international law. It appears that U.S. efforts have prevented Mr. Snowden from receiving fair and impartial consideration of his application for asylum in many of the countries to which he reportedly applied. These efforts allegedly led to an unprecedented event last week when Bolivian President Evo Morales' plane was denied the use of airspace by several European countries and forced to land in Austria. Once on the ground, the plane was reportedly searched because American intelligence officials believed that Mr. Snowden was on board.

...

The rest (and links) here: http://www.aclu.org/blog/human-rights-national-security/us-actions-snowden-case-threaten-right-seek-asylum

[Catherina]

117. State Duma Speaker: grant political asylum because in US he could face the death penalty

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

#Russia should grant political asylum to #Snowden, because in US he could face the death penalty - State Duma Speake

[Catherina]

122. lawyer: granting political asylum could be settled within two-three weeks

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

The question of granting political asylum to #Snowden could be settled within two-three weeks - lawyer Anatoly Kucherena

[FarCenter]

135. Institute of Democracy and Cooperation

Institute of Democracy and Cooperation is a think tank with offices in Moscow, Paris and New York. It was founded in 2008 by a Russian lawyer, Anatoly Kucherena, and is funded by Russian NGOs and private businesses.[1] It was set up to gain a hearing for Russian positions on global human rights and democracy, and to expose perceived double standards by the West in this area. It works by publishing reports and inviting speakers, seeking to encourages all sides of the argument to be put.[2] The Institute's Paris office is headed by historian and former parliamentarian Natalia Narochnitskaya, while the New York office is headed by political scientist Andranik Migranyan. Philosopher and hisorian John Laughland is Director of Studies in Paris. At the time of the institute's founding, Anatoly Kucherena said "We're not just planning to criticize the West". He said he hoped the institute's work would create healthy dialogue with Western human-rights and democracy advocates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Democracy_and_Cooperation

[Catherina]

166. Thanks n/t

[one_voice]

124. Russia...

What's the vibe there from the human rights groups on Russia and their loving relationship with gay people?

Russia they're number 1!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111 YAY RUSSIA!!!!

[Catherina]

126. In line with the law, may become a #citizen of Russia, but may take some time

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 1m

In line with the law,#Snowden may become a #citizen of Russia,but this can happen in some time - lawyer Anatoly Kucherena

[randome]

130. But he doesn't want to be a citizen of Russia. He wants to use Russia as a temporary life raft.

I doubt if Russia is willing to be used that way.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[FarCenter]

188. The US and Russia have considerable experience housing defectors from the other side

Both know how the game is played to maximize return from the defector without causing a diplomatic fuss.

[Catherina]

131. 2nd photo of Snowden in Moscow

I'm getting the impression they weren't supposed to take photos. Just an impression.

[Catherina]

133. Duma:Snowden a human rights defender,who advocates for the rights of millions of people in the world

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 3m

I consider #Snowden a human rights defender,who advocates for the rights of millions of people in the world - speaker of the State Duma

[Catherina]

137. STATEMENT by Edward Snowden to human rights groups at Moscow

Last edited Fri Jul 12, 2013, 12:24 PM - Edit history (2)

WACA ?@akaWACA 1m

Statement by Edward Snowden to human rights groups at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport http://fb.me/SyVOQmAQ

Statement by Edward Snowden to human rights groups at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport
Friday July 12, 15:00 UTC

Edward Joseph Snowden delivered a statement to human rights organizations and individuals at Sheremetyevo airport at 5pm Moscow time today, Friday 12th July. The meeting lasted 45 minutes. The human rights organizations included Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch and were given the opportunity afterwards to ask Mr Snowden questions. The Human Rights Watch representative used this opportunity to tell Mr Snowden that on her way to the airport she had received a call from the US Ambassador to Russia, who asked her to relay to Mr Snowden that the US Government does not categorise Mr Snowden as a whistleblower and that he has broken United States law. This further proves the United States Government’s persecution of Mr Snowden and therefore that his right to seek and accept asylum should be upheld. Seated to the left of Mr. Snowden was Sarah Harrison, a legal advisor in this matter from WikiLeaks and to Mr. Snowden’s right, a translator.

Transcript of Edward Joseph Snowden statement, given at 5pm Moscow time on Friday 12th July 2013. (Transcript corrected to delivery)

Hello. My name is Ed Snowden. A little over one month ago, I had family, a home in paradise, and I lived in great comfort. I also had the capability without any warrant to search for, seize, and read your communications. Anyone’s communications at any time. That is the power to change people’s fates.

It is also a serious violation of the law. The 4th and 5th Amendments to the Constitution of my country, Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and numerous statutes and treaties forbid such systems of massive, pervasive surveillance. While the US Constitution marks these programs as illegal, my government argues that secret court rulings, which the world is not permitted to see, somehow legitimize an illegal affair. These rulings simply corrupt the most basic notion of justice – that it must be seen to be done. The immoral cannot be made moral through the use of secret law.

I believe in the principle declared at Nuremberg in 1945: "Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience. Therefore individual citizens have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."

Accordingly, I did what I believed right and began a campaign to correct this wrongdoing. I did not seek to enrich myself. I did not seek to sell US secrets. I did not partner with any foreign government to guarantee my safety. Instead, I took what I knew to the public, so what affects all of us can be discussed by all of us in the light of day, and I asked the world for justice.

That moral decision to tell the public about spying that affects all of us has been costly, but it was the right thing to do and I have no regrets.

Since that time, the government and intelligence services of the United States of America have attempted to make an example of me, a warning to all others who might speak out as I have. I have been made stateless and hounded for my act of political expression. The United States Government has placed me on no-fly lists. It demanded Hong Kong return me outside of the framework of its laws, in direct violation of the principle of non-refoulement – the Law of Nations. It has threatened with sanctions countries who would stand up for my human rights and the UN asylum system. It has even taken the unprecedented step of ordering military allies to ground a Latin American president’s plane in search for a political refugee. These dangerous escalations represent a threat not just to the dignity of Latin America, but to the basic rights shared by every person, every nation, to live free from persecution, and to seek and enjoy asylum.

Yet even in the face of this historically disproportionate aggression, countries around the world have offered support and asylum. These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations carried out by the powerful rather than the powerless. By refusing to compromise their principles in the face of intimidation, they have earned the respect of the world. It is my intention to travel to each of these countries to extend my personal thanks to their people and leaders.

I announce today my formal acceptance of all offers of support or asylum I have been extended and all others that may be offered in the future. With, for example, the grant of asylum provided by Venezuela’s President Maduro, my asylee status is now formal, and no state has a basis by which to limit or interfere with my right to enjoy that asylum. As we have seen, however, some governments in Western European and North American states have demonstrated a willingness to act outside the law, and this behavior persists today. This unlawful threat makes it impossible for me to travel to Latin America and enjoy the asylum granted there in accordance with our shared rights.

This willingness by powerful states to act extra-legally represents a threat to all of us, and must not be allowed to succeed. Accordingly, I ask for your assistance in requesting guarantees of safe passage from the relevant nations in securing my travel to Latin America, as well as requesting asylum in Russia until such time as these states accede to law and my legal travel is permitted. I will be submitting my request to Russia today, and hope it will be accepted favorably.

If you have any questions, I will answer what I can.

Thank you.

For further information, see:

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-from-Edward-Snowden-in.html

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Julian-Assange-after,249.html

[morningfog]

141. This is a hell of a claim!

"I also had the capability without any warrant to search for, seize, and read your communications. Anyone’s communications at any time."

I hope he can and will back this claim up when able.

[Catherina]

144. That was confirmed by other whistleblowers. ChimpyMustGo started a new thread for it

ChimpyMustGo started one here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023232411

[allin99]

147. Yeah, this i'd like to see.

[Catherina]

150. Simply put, the technical capability is used without warrant

The machines don't ask for warrants to snoop in anyone's files.

The robostamp warrants are for afterwards as CYA, to build an official case.

[randome]

154. Surprisingly, though, Snowden didn't think to get evidence of that.

Amazing, isn't it?

We've been waiting for Snowden's evidence for quite a while.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Zorra]

165. Thanks, Catherina. That is a very important statement

This, in particular, strikes me as notable:

"I believe in the principle declared at Nuremberg in 1945: "Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience. Therefore individual citizens have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."

Thank you so very much for keeping us better informed about this situation.

[Catherina]

178. I thought so too. He's absolutely correct too

If true believers could see this thing through international eyes, they'd understand.

The world isn't there for the whims of the US government.

[Peace Patriot]

181. Kudos and laurel wreaths to Snowden for this statement!

Made under difficult conditions and enormous pressure. It is clear the way Daniel Ellsberg's statements have always been clear--very orderly thought about basic principles and about his actions and purposes. Ellsberg wrote something this week that made me quite sad. He said, don't criticize Snowden for running from U.S. soil; we are a "different country" today than when he released the Pentagon papers.

I imagine that this reality makes Ellsberg sad, too. All our activism and high hopes for a peaceful, just country, during the Vietnam era, failed. The MIC won. And here we are today with corpo-fascist rule in a surveillance state in a Forever War.

[FarCenter]

184. I don't think the US has violated Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Article 12
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

What exactly does "arbitrary interference" mean? In any case, NSA intercepts are not arbitrary.

Nor are they unlawful, which complies with the second sentence.

[Sheepshank]

152. I wonder how many of the Russians feel about this "human rights" thing.....

..that so many of them have not had the chance to experience? is this a novelty....is this a hope of where their contry may be headed?

My parents grew up in Communist Hungary and changes to other political and population repression comes slowly. Too many that are still alive had lived with the repression for so long, it's a mindset that doesn't really go away. The circus atmosphere is hard to ignore.

[Cleita]

157. That was the Soviet Union that your parents grew up under.

That mind set is gone for the most part especially among the young. It's too bad what's happening to the Pussy Riot, but it sort of shows that the young people are willing to express dissent.

[Sheepshank]

161. nope...actually it's not gone

everytime the 50 something crown hears about capitalist correuption, they squawk that is was 'better' before. On and btw...there are a lot of 50 somethings that still walk aroud in society there.

[Catherina]

163. Duma Chairman: We expect #US to correctly interpret granting asylum as a humane thing

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 8m

Live UPD: We expect #US to correctly interpret our step as a humane one - Russian State Duma Chairman on granting asylum to #Snowden

[backscatter712]

164. K&R! Glad to see he's OK! n/t

[Catherina]

169. If #Snowden accepts condition of Putin for political asylum, there is no reason for him to be denied

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 5m

If #Snowden will accept the condition of President #Putin for political asylum, there is no reason for him to be denied - official

The files are out of Snowden's hands.

[allin99]

173. i wonder if he would accept conditions to stop releasing u.s...

spying on other countries but okay to reveal their spying on us. I thin Putin only cares about the former, right?

Snowden has the biggest cajones of all time. either that, or he's nuts.

[backscatter712]

175. Glenn Greenwald and Wikileaks has his documents, so Snowden can sit quiet for a while.

Meanwhile, Greenwald can continue to disclose U.S. criminal activity.

[Catherina]

177. Technically, he's not releasing anything anymore

He already turned everything over to wikileaks, and to journalists who are free to publish what they think is in the best interest of their citizens.

So technically....

I hope he gets Russian asylum and can travel on refugee papers soon.

[allin99]

179. if Russia takes him in i will ....

laugh my fucking ass off. I mean, i detest putin, he's worse than our right wing here, but US needs to be shown they cannot intimidate the entire world, and that is essentially what we have done. And if people decide what the gov't is doing is not okay, then the U.S. would have a hell of a lot of nerve continuing to go after him b/c it would prove him a whistle blower. Which is sadly, why i think obama wll do his best not to get behind any effort to alter fisa or the patriot act.

[Catherina]

199. Here you go Allin

Greenwald Says He's Not Halfway Done Revealing Snowden's Information

The meeting came a day after The Guardian columnist Glenn Greenwald, who has worked with Snowden to report on the NSA programs, told ABC News that their work is not even half done.

"The majority of it remains to be done, and that includes stories that are at least as significant, if not more significant than the ones we've already done," Greenwald said.
...

Greenwald said that for the past six weeks he has carried around "for every second of everyday" a highly encrypted electronic copy of the secret documents leaked to him by Snowden – some 10,000 documents from the NSA. Greenwald said that he has other copies should anything happen to the one he carries around, and Snowden has previously said that other encrypted copies of the documents have been given to other journalists for safe keeping.

As for the concerns over whether Russian authorities could copy the documents Snowden is reportedly carrying with him – or if Chinese intelligence agents had done so already when he was in Hong Kong – Greenwald said such concerns underestimate Snowden's experience in the world of high-tech spycraft.

"This is a very sophisticated cyber operative," Greenwald said before referencing a report from The New York Times which said Snowden had been especially trained by the NSA to be an offensive cyber attacker. "This is somebody who completely knows what he's doing in terms of how to store material securely and what techniques are used by governments around the world, like the NSA, in order to gain access to places they don't have authority to access."

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=19646142&ref=http://t.co/3mS8YU6lay

[Catherina]

171. Russia should meet #Snowden's request for political asylum - Federation Council Chair

The Voice of Russia ?@VoiceofRussia 4m

Live UPD: Russia should meet #Snowden's request for political asylum - Federation Council Chair Valentina Matviyenko

[gulliver]

172. It's an all-you-can-eat feast of irony.

Human rights activists lauding Russia as a human rights benefactor. A libertarian begging to be allowed to stay in Russia.

Maybe Putin could get Snowden a job working in the KGB. Could that happen? OMG!

[CakeGrrl]

174. I know, right?

Too rich.

[noamnety]

180. It's ironic in a lot of ways.

Being a cold war era Russian linquist in MI, I never thought I'd see the day where we'd have people having to seek asylum in Russia.

But I also thought I'd never have to see my (also army Russian linguist) ex fly to Russia for medical care because it's not affordable in the US.

I suppose we were technically the enemy when we were there back in the late 80s, but we were actually treated a lot better there even then, than we were treated in the US in a lot of ways. Even small things like their Kremlin guards were actually human and personable, unlike the guards letting us back from no man's land at one point who treated us like criminals because we had rolled open the roof vent in our unairconditioned beetle before technically crossing into "our" land. Even 25 years ago, we had perfected the art of dehumanizing authority.

I'm not gonna romanticize the situation in the soviet union at that time, but I'm also not going to romanticize what's going on in the US. We don't exactly have a stellar writeup either in the human rights watch document that was linked above.

[flamingdem]

186. When the book is written the title will obviously be

Snowjob

[allin99]

176. Video, no sound...

[Catherina]

182. Thanks Alin

They weren't supposed to film. There were only about 6 people in the room. I don't understand why anyone surreptitiously would film that.

At least it lays to rest any speculation he's not in Moscow.

[allin99]

190. U.S. to Russia..

"The United States on Friday warned Russia against allowing fugitive leaker Edward Snowden a "propaganda platform" by letting him stay in the country."

*eyeroll* As if Russia doesn't know how to make their own decisions. lol.
http://english.ruvr.ru/news/2013_07_12/US-tells-Moscow-not-to-give-Snowden-propaganda-platform-1324/

that's okay, Obama will speak with Putin next Friday, no wheelin' and dealing i'm sure.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/12/us-usa-security-snowden-obama-idUSBRE96B0RE20130712?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=992637

[Catherina]

191. I just started a thread about that

It came across my twitter feed. The White House's reaction isn't going over too well. They're not doing themselves any favors on the international stage. They need a new PR person or something.

thread here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023234400

[marions ghost]

192. Heavy pressure

cough him up or else....

"Propaganda" works both ways.

[Catherina]

197. Just updated the OP with unofficial video n/t

[Catherina]

198. Russian Deputy: Russia never extradites to countries with the death penalty

RT en Español ?@ActualidadRT 7m

Diputado ruso: "#Rusia nunca extradita a países donde existe la pena de muerte" http://es.rt.com/pYN #Snowden

[allin99]

205. Hmmm, i wonder if that comment means....

they might release him (b/c a deal can always be made) OR

if it's a snap on carney's snap about human rights. lolol. i'm willing to bet it's the latter.