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2016 Postmortem
Showing Original Post only (View all)Sanders' demands & the path forward - What if it were two men? [View all]
Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)
Pardon my girl-dar, but I'm catching a little whiff of less-than-equal treatment and paternalism in the media's treatment of Mr. Sanders and his behavior since the end of the Democratic primaries. It saddens me to my core to say this, but I have come to believe that Mr. Sanders would not be making demands of his victor if he had lost the same contest to a man, and more importantly; I do not believe the media or so many others would be entertaining it with any seriousness were the contest between two men.
The content of the demands Mr. Sanders is making of the party he so recently joined has been noted and addressed by the media as transparently self-oriented. That's fine, but what about the very fact that this man who lost, is now not only failing to concede graciously in accordance with all traditions of politics and basic sportsmanship to the female who bettered him, but also making demands targeted most pointedly at powerful women (and fewer men I notice) in the party?
When Mr. Trump mused that he may remove the chairman of the RNC if he won his party's nomination, the statement was treated rightly as vindictive and childish; a threat to act as a spiteful and belligerent winner. Mr. Sanders is the loser, not the winner, and yet he has not merely mused upon, but demanded the right to oust the powerful female chair of our party and install his own choice.
Unless and until Mr. Sanders makes a gracious concession and changes his tone towards the nominee and the party he so recently hooked his wagon to, the Clinton campaign and the Democratic Party should quietly dismiss him. This is not an appeal merely out of reaction to discerned paternalism, but also a matter of respect for the voters, and the future of the party.
We should not set a precedent in this party whereby the runner-up gets to pick the platform, blame and subsequently oust the chair because they are mad about losing, and in short, demand that the party bend to the will of the losing campaign. This would make a mockery of voting. The voters choose a winner because they trust that winner and her/his vision to carry the party forward. The voters speak to endorse a leader who will shape the platform, the party organization, the process, and the Presidency. To cede leadership to the losing campaign is to disrespect the entire process and point of asking voters to make that choice.
That the winner of the process becomes the leader, that the victor chooses the path forward has never been a subject of question before, so why would it be now? On what basis might this man who lost feel entitled to dictate to women of power in this party what course they should take? I am a big believer in Occam's razor. Most often the obvious answer is in fact the correct one.
If someone can demonstrate an example of a time when Mr. Sanders lost to a man and behaved in a similar fashion I'm willing to look at it objectively and reconsider. We do have another example, curiously enough, of Mr. Sanders losing an election to a woman, and how he behaved then.
That Time Bernie Sanders Said He Was a Bigger Feminist Than His Female Opponent
Some of the parallels are rather stark and a bit disquieting.
The two-term governor who defeated Sanders endorses Hillary.
When Bernie Sanders ran against me in Vermont
Again, if someone can demonstrate Mr. Sanders showing this kind of pettish fractiousness following contests with men, I will happily give it fair reading.
Any parts or points of Mr. Sanders agenda should be brought forth as a request, not a demand, in the spirit of cooperation. The Democratic Party, with Hillary as the leader elected by the Democratic voters, should then decide what points to consider or adopt as she sees beneficial to the party and her campaign moving forward. It's obvious to many that the changes Mr. Sanders is demanding for the party he just recently and only "kind of" joined, are not-too-coincidentally exactly the ones he thinks would have allowed him to win. It seems rather self-serving because it is; but nonetheless it seems likely the campaigns will search for common ground.
There is room on the path forward for Mr. Sanders, but there must be no doubt that it is Secretary Clinton, at the behest of the voters of our party who has been chosen to make those decisions great and small that will guide our journey.
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If Hillary were a male, her opponent would have conceded and endorsed the nominee by now. nt
LexVegas
Jun 2016
#1
Hillary stayed on a lot longer than usual against Obama and she was not
The Wielding Truth
Jun 2016
#58
Three days after the last primary and she was much closer...and she signalled she was endorsing
Demsrule86
Jun 2016
#70
Yes, and that was considered unusual at the time. Truth. Also she was not mounting an
The Wielding Truth
Jun 2016
#108
If he were gracious enough to congratulate his victor, would that diminish his cause?
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#140
Don't worry he probably already told her congrats. Now can we get on board the Demo-train?
The Wielding Truth
Jun 2016
#171
He said that he will fight against Trump. He will do it and he will fight for Hillary.Apologies are
The Wielding Truth
Jun 2016
#232
I didn't say a damn thing about apologies but it's good to see you understand it's owed
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#234
This is a narrative you are projecting. It is not who he is or what he is trying to do.
The Wielding Truth
Jun 2016
#230
√ FALSE. She was MUCH closer, miles ahead of current Sanders, and went out on a winning streak.
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#83
"does your cause go away?" Yes, if your cause is personal and not about the issues.
Yavin4
Jun 2016
#177
MSNBC interviewed a really sad little watch party last night and asked if they would run for office
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#184
This is silly and personal. He has a cause that is the same as ours. Read my last post # 108.
The Wielding Truth
Jun 2016
#114
Barney Frank is retired. Right? Bernie will be rolling into the mix soon and his views are smart.
The Wielding Truth
Jun 2016
#182
He feels he can get away with his shit because she is female...different rules for her
Demsrule86
Jun 2016
#71
Not sure if it's concious or unconcious on his part, don't care, but the media treatment,
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#191
What a cute little straw man you made there, look at his whittle hat, how sweet!
shadowandblossom
Jun 2016
#98
Ah....."implied". So you're attributing something that she DIDN'T say to her post?
George II
Jun 2016
#179
Hillary was MUCH closer to Obama, can you imagine if she'd refused to concede?
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#33
I don't have to imagine it it actually happened. Clinton did refuse to concede when Obama clinched..
PoliticAverse
Jun 2016
#38
And the margin of victory was razor thin then, not like this near-landslide we have now.
brush
Jun 2016
#65
Yes eventually she endorsed Obama. Do you think Sanders will eventually endorse Clinton? n/t
PoliticAverse
Jun 2016
#67
In both cases I believe it didn't change the fact that the other person was going to be the nominee
PoliticAverse
Jun 2016
#56
Do you have a credible source for your claim about the agreement between Hillary and Obama
Arkansas Granny
Jun 2016
#146
It's more well-known she refused the job the first two times Obama offered it to her
jmowreader
Jun 2016
#211
Or if Clinton was a male and Sanders were a female he would have conceded on Wednesday....
George II
Jun 2016
#127
If Hillary were a male, with her same negatives, I think it would have been impossible
John Poet
Jun 2016
#196
Says another man who thinks he has the right to tell women what is better for women
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#40
Boy, I like the feisty women on this thread. They ain't taking no sh_t from mansplainers.
brush
Jun 2016
#72
Prove that I have those "thoughts". I believe that women and men should have equal footing,
rhett o rick
Jun 2016
#116
I'm sure you put the same effort into fighting for the Equal Rights Amendment that you do
shadowandblossom
Jun 2016
#137
So you say...too bad your candidate can't bring himself to concede to a woman...she must win him
Demsrule86
Jun 2016
#208
You're right. Women are the one's who need to play fair here. That's where the real problem in our
shadowandblossom
Jun 2016
#110
Now there I will have to disagree with you. It should not be about gender.
rhett o rick
Jun 2016
#111
"His old fashioned behavior is tiresome and outdated." So you think he is too old?
rhett o rick
Jun 2016
#118
I was wagging my finger because of what you posted, "You're right. Women are the one's who need to
rhett o rick
Jun 2016
#117
Wow that's dishonest. Do you need to misrepresent the context because you can't address it or
shadowandblossom
Jun 2016
#123
And then the dudes high5 eachother for explaining to the women what is best for them
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#41
You know, the very fact that we feel almost compelled to justify and qualify our feminism with
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#119
discussing the issues = hatred of men apparently according to some of the people here
shadowandblossom
Jun 2016
#128
The poster, by hurling the "man-hater" slur at you tried to make it about feelings
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#151
right. asif we can't decide that for ourselves. like they know what's best for us
DLCWIdem
Jun 2016
#218
I fully recognize the difference between hatred and "disagreement". I recognize the vitriol.
rhett o rick
Jun 2016
#87
You must be joking. All criticisms of Hillary are called sexist. It's a tool, a tactic, used
rhett o rick
Jun 2016
#96
I keep hearing a lot about such posts and some here use that as justification for
rhett o rick
Jun 2016
#229
Feminists (men and women alike) understand that it is not the place of a man to explain to women
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#99
I agree with what you wrote. But that doesn't mean that men are capable of fighting for women's
rhett o rick
Jun 2016
#102
If those are the only tools in your box, may I suggest a trip to the hardware store
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#132
You're so generous for helping us wee women folk understand Rick. Thank you.
shadowandblossom
Jun 2016
#139
Who is doing the bashing here? "Men on this thread were high5ing over instructing women about what
rhett o rick
Jun 2016
#187
Disquieting is that you think you have the right to challenge anyone's reasons for voting.
msanthrope
Jun 2016
#19
And here we go again with the pretending. None of us here would vote for Sara Palin and I think you
shadowandblossom
Jun 2016
#131
Yes, it's so much better to have women vote against a woman because she is a woman!
athena
Jun 2016
#217
Bernie is becoming increasingly irrelevant. I don't think his endorsement is going to make any
MariaThinks
Jun 2016
#7
thanks for reading it and probably geting the post hidden. Never mind the attacks on Hillary
MariaThinks
Jun 2016
#25
He's got terrible timing. Vanity prevents him from seizing golden opportunities.
NurseJackie
Jun 2016
#20
A red herring.....Disagree with his current actions, but please don't make stuff up
Armstead
Jun 2016
#14
The media would treat a woman refusing to condede to a man as a complete mental case
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#17
Three days after the last primary she conceded and endorsed...then worked to elect Obama.
Demsrule86
Jun 2016
#60
Yeah...that is not really true. Please note she took the SOS job knowing she could not fund-raise
Demsrule86
Jun 2016
#89
He won't endorse Hillary. He'll just continue to passively say that Trump should be defeated.
NurseJackie
Jun 2016
#23
Oh, that's a good one. I'm stealing it, putting it in my pocket and keeping it to use later.
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#44
maybe you should have a bet with ARMSTEAD maybe a pro HILLARY POST if you are right
DLCWIdem
Jun 2016
#219
You're very welcome. Needed said, out loud, and expanded on with evidence.
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#235
Nope Sanders would not dare do this to another man...it is save for a woman presidential nominee
Demsrule86
Jun 2016
#69
Again, Hillary supporters attack Bernie & base ... is this REALLY best to win his base for Nov?
cloudythescribbler
Jun 2016
#73
And increasingly unnecessary, as her margins against Trump continue to rise
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#136
Yep. Turns out that Sanders is a mere ideologue, rather than a good politician.
stopbush
Jun 2016
#167
I think he's happier being miserable. God knows he's had decades of practice at it
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#194
I hope your extreme confidence in an HRC victory in November is warranted ...
cloudythescribbler
Jun 2016
#192
Right because it's not like people can object to something about Saint Bernie
shadowandblossom
Jun 2016
#143
Who knows what our vaginas might do next, they've gone rogue! They could shoot someone, or take up
shadowandblossom
Jun 2016
#221
My vagina sat in a chair at school for 19 1/2 years! No wonder it knows so damn smart!!
Maru Kitteh
Jun 2016
#236
Sanders should let his voice go silent but for one sentence...I Bernie Sanders concede the primary
Demsrule86
Jun 2016
#198
The finger waving at the debates really frosted me...the you better listen little lady type attitude
Demsrule86
Jun 2016
#203
More 'cry wolf' sexism from the neoliberal propagandists who don't care that they diminish actual
w4rma
Jun 2016
#214
Why the push to always conflate policy differences with misogyny? It's very untrue,
NorthCarolina
Jun 2016
#228