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Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:52 AM

Sanders' demands & the path forward - What if it were two men?

Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)


Pardon my girl-dar, but I'm catching a little whiff of less-than-equal treatment and paternalism in the media's treatment of Mr. Sanders and his behavior since the end of the Democratic primaries. It saddens me to my core to say this, but I have come to believe that Mr. Sanders would not be making demands of his victor if he had lost the same contest to a man, and more importantly; I do not believe the media or so many others would be entertaining it with any seriousness were the contest between two men.

The content of the demands Mr. Sanders is making of the party he so recently joined has been noted and addressed by the media as transparently self-oriented. That's fine, but what about the very fact that this man who lost, is now not only failing to concede graciously in accordance with all traditions of politics and basic sportsmanship to the female who bettered him, but also making demands targeted most pointedly at powerful women (and fewer men I notice) in the party?

When Mr. Trump mused that he may remove the chairman of the RNC if he won his party's nomination, the statement was treated rightly as vindictive and childish; a threat to act as a spiteful and belligerent winner. Mr. Sanders is the loser, not the winner, and yet he has not merely mused upon, but demanded the right to oust the powerful female chair of our party and install his own choice.

Unless and until Mr. Sanders makes a gracious concession and changes his tone towards the nominee and the party he so recently hooked his wagon to, the Clinton campaign and the Democratic Party should quietly dismiss him. This is not an appeal merely out of reaction to discerned paternalism, but also a matter of respect for the voters, and the future of the party.

We should not set a precedent in this party whereby the runner-up gets to pick the platform, blame and subsequently oust the chair because they are mad about losing, and in short, demand that the party bend to the will of the losing campaign. This would make a mockery of voting. The voters choose a winner because they trust that winner and her/his vision to carry the party forward. The voters speak to endorse a leader who will shape the platform, the party organization, the process, and the Presidency. To cede leadership to the losing campaign is to disrespect the entire process and point of asking voters to make that choice.

That the winner of the process becomes the leader, that the victor chooses the path forward has never been a subject of question before, so why would it be now? On what basis might this man who lost feel entitled to dictate to women of power in this party what course they should take? I am a big believer in Occam's razor. Most often the obvious answer is in fact the correct one.

If someone can demonstrate an example of a time when Mr. Sanders lost to a man and behaved in a similar fashion I'm willing to look at it objectively and reconsider. We do have another example, curiously enough, of Mr. Sanders losing an election to a woman, and how he behaved then.
That Time Bernie Sanders Said He Was a Bigger Feminist Than His Female Opponent
Some of the parallels are rather stark and a bit disquieting.

The two-term governor who defeated Sanders endorses Hillary.
When Bernie Sanders ran against me in Vermont
Again, if someone can demonstrate Mr. Sanders showing this kind of pettish fractiousness following contests with men, I will happily give it fair reading.

Any parts or points of Mr. Sanders agenda should be brought forth as a request, not a demand, in the spirit of cooperation. The Democratic Party, with Hillary as the leader elected by the Democratic voters, should then decide what points to consider or adopt as she sees beneficial to the party and her campaign moving forward. It's obvious to many that the changes Mr. Sanders is demanding for the party he just recently and only "kind of" joined, are not-too-coincidentally exactly the ones he thinks would have allowed him to win. It seems rather self-serving because it is; but nonetheless it seems likely the campaigns will search for common ground.

There is room on the path forward for Mr. Sanders, but there must be no doubt that it is Secretary Clinton, at the behest of the voters of our party who has been chosen to make those decisions great and small that will guide our journey.

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Arrow 237 replies Author Time Post
Reply Sanders' demands & the path forward - What if it were two men? (Original post)
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 OP
LexVegas Jun 2016 #1
NurseJackie Jun 2016 #3
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #10
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #58
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #70
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #108
Dustlawyer Jun 2016 #138
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #140
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #171
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #186
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #232
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #234
lapucelle Jun 2016 #180
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #230
DLCWIdem Jun 2016 #209
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #237
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #83
Yavin4 Jun 2016 #177
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #184
shadowandblossom Jun 2016 #84
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #86
shadowandblossom Jun 2016 #92
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #114
lapucelle Jun 2016 #181
The Wielding Truth Jun 2016 #182
jmowreader Jun 2016 #207
7962 Jun 2016 #174
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #74
AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #4
LexVegas Jun 2016 #12
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #15
Chasstev365 Jun 2016 #213
shadowandblossom Jun 2016 #85
AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #147
Squinch Jun 2016 #166
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #71
AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #149
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #191
WhiteTara Jun 2016 #75
AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #150
WhiteTara Jun 2016 #159
shadowandblossom Jun 2016 #98
George II Jun 2016 #129
AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #152
George II Jun 2016 #155
AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #156
George II Jun 2016 #179
DLCWIdem Jun 2016 #216
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #5
eastwestdem Jun 2016 #24
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #33
PoliticAverse Jun 2016 #38
Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #46
brush Jun 2016 #65
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SpareribSP Jun 2016 #11
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peace13 Jun 2016 #16
msanthrope Jun 2016 #19
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msanthrope Jun 2016 #59
rhett o rick Jun 2016 #94
msanthrope Jun 2016 #154
Dawgs Jun 2016 #50
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #21
shadowandblossom Jun 2016 #131
athena Jun 2016 #217
peace13 Jun 2016 #220
shadowandblossom Jun 2016 #101
bravenak Jun 2016 #200
MariaThinks Jun 2016 #7
Post removed Jun 2016 #8
MariaThinks Jun 2016 #25
AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #9
TeeYiYi Jun 2016 #62
NastyRiffraff Jun 2016 #163
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #13
NurseJackie Jun 2016 #20
Armstead Jun 2016 #14
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #17
Armstead Jun 2016 #18
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #29
Dawgs Jun 2016 #54
Ned_Devine Jun 2016 #57
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #60
Dawgs Jun 2016 #68
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #89
Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #105
brush Jun 2016 #82
NurseJackie Jun 2016 #23
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NurseJackie Jun 2016 #30
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DLCWIdem Jun 2016 #219
mnhtnbb Jun 2016 #45
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w4rma Jun 2016 #214
k8conant Jun 2016 #215
TheFarseer Jun 2016 #226
NorthCarolina Jun 2016 #228
Maru Kitteh Jun 2016 #233
Vinca Jun 2016 #231

Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:54 AM

1. If Hillary were a male, her opponent would have conceded and endorsed the nominee by now. nt

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:58 AM

3. That's exactly right.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:02 PM

10. Indeed, and the media would treat a woman refusing to condede to a man as

a complete mental case.

Instead of the kid gloves and serious talk about the media pays his demands, like they were legitimate, it would be "why doesn't somebody come get her/help her/yank her off the stage?"

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:57 PM

58. Hillary stayed on a lot longer than usual against Obama and she was not

mounting an economic revolution.
Man or woman, Bernie has a cause, not an ambition. That is the difference.If you lose a bid for office does the cause go away? No.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #58)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:13 PM

70. Three days after the last primary and she was much closer...and she signalled she was endorsing

the day after the primary...tell the truth.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #70)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:50 PM

108. Yes, and that was considered unusual at the time. Truth. Also she was not mounting an

economic revolution with only individual contributions of small amounts. Bernie is dancing with the ones who brought him and he won't let the band packing up make him drop the hands of his partners.
That's who He is working for.

Again Hillary will be are nominee and he and I will use our doggedness to make sure she is our President.

Let all those, who treasure Bernie's vision give Hillary the hand up to the Leadership position and hold her to the dance of a better social and economic society. She can do it. We must help her.

I will not let go of my desires for a better country and world.Would any Democrat buckle to selfish right wing pressure or the insane fear of random crazy violence? No, not us DUer's.

Rise around these ideals and don't let go. Now. Through the convention. Through Nov 8,2016 and Beyond.Push with Bernie. Push with Hillary. Let's get moving!

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #108)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:38 PM

138. +1!!!

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #108)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:46 PM

140. If he were gracious enough to congratulate his victor, would that diminish his cause?

He lost the contest. He refuses grace in defeat. Bearing in mind, his influence diminishes daily (as evidenced by widening polls) would grace diminish his cause, or help it?


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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #140)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:58 PM

171. Don't worry he probably already told her congrats. Now can we get on board the Demo-train?

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #171)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 06:47 PM

186. Don't worry my purdy little head?

Ya'll just can't stop yourselves, can you?

If such time should arise that Mr. Sanders finds it within himself to affect some display of sportsmanship, I will credit him with achieving the minimum standard of behavior that we expect of our children.

We teach small children that at the end of the game, you shake hands with the team that beat you and congratulate them on their win. Mr. Sanders thus far lacks this simple sportsmanship or grace.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #186)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:12 PM

232. He said that he will fight against Trump. He will do it and he will fight for Hillary.Apologies are

a side bar considering the circumstances. He has probably already told Hillary personally that he will fight with her. He cannot relinquish the bully pulpit now and give her his voice. This is a bigger fight than who is the nominee. We all know it is Hillary. It has been Hillary since the start of the race.Sanders is the anti-brainwashing agent that might cut through the manufactured idiocy that has been corrupting this country for @40 years. It has grown to the point where we seldom even see the distortions. We hear the "Democrat" Party so many times that we don't fight the slam. We hear our friends and neighbors say how terrific it is that Trump speaks his mind while he is being endorsed by the KKK. Honestly. Bernie despite his nonpublic apology is a spark of sanity and open American spirit.I'm not saying Hillary does not have both. I am saying that we need a big step out of the 1% Hell of Political control.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #232)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 02:42 PM

234. I didn't say a damn thing about apologies but it's good to see you understand it's owed

As for the "probably already told Hillary", it lives only in your head. There is no evidence thus far.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #108)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:34 PM

180. I'm so tired of this narrative

from a candidate who joined a political party only to exploit it and then expects it to bend to his petty, vindictive whims and spent his donors' money renting a jet to fly off for a 36 hour publicity stunt with family and friends. It's entitlement, plain and simple.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #180)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:49 PM

230. This is a narrative you are projecting. It is not who he is or what he is trying to do.

Entitlement? He is only delivering a fight that he promised when he was recruited. I have been following him [email protected] 10 years and he does not have petty or vindictive whims. He is stead fast in economic change. He has been the voice that rises to fight Citizen's United. He rails against the injustices that have been growing under the Right Wing Republican thumb.

Your view is clouded by his race against Hillary and that is unfortunate because they are both on the same side. He just thinks as many do that dealing with the ideology of the Republican base is better head on. If you can explain the facts to the masses without selfish conservative spin then even the backward leaning press cannot twist it too much. I think that is why so many young people get his message.

When the dust settles and Sanders stands with Hillary you will see how his dogged personality will pay off for our Party an our Country.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #108)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:07 PM

209. also she was only 100 delegates behind he is 350 delegates behind

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Response to DLCWIdem (Reply #209)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 04:34 PM

237. Not if you multiply by how much birds like him.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #58)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:22 PM

83. √ FALSE. She was MUCH closer, miles ahead of current Sanders, and went out on a winning streak.

So your assertion crumbles under the weight of fact.

Also: this "he has a cause and that's why he refuses to be gracious and acknowledge that he lost" thing is so very silly and thin a middle-school debate class could poke a hole in it with a marshmallow.

If you are gracious and congratulate your victor, does your cause go away?



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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #83)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:16 PM

177. "does your cause go away?" Yes, if your cause is personal and not about the issues.

In this case, this is all about Bernie's ego, not his causes. Bernie, and his followers, believe that the force of his personality is enough to implement the changes that he calls for. No political nor legislative strategy is needed. No real organization. No nothing. Just have a rally and everything will magically happen.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #177)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:55 PM

184. MSNBC interviewed a really sad little watch party last night and asked if they would run for office

like SBS asked them to. Their response? Not really.

MSNBC: What is the plan now that BS isn't competitive for the nomination?

Supporters: We're going to wait and hope he gets the nomination.



Only 218K viewers for his little stunt last night. Kind of pathetic, even for a digital band-wagon revolution.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #58)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:22 PM

84. So far as I can tell Bernie has an ego the size of a house

.

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Response to shadowandblossom (Reply #84)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:25 PM

86. Susan Sarandon's house.

Maybe all of them.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #86)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:31 PM

92. Or Donald Trumps house. It's about ego compensation too.

Not saying the Burned Out One is as bad as Trump mind you, just behaving like another old, rich, white male trying to usurp power from the people who actually earned it and be "coronated" against the direct will and voices of the people, of the voters. I wish he would grow up. He's no Trump but he's just engaging in some pretty pathetic behavior right now.

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Response to shadowandblossom (Reply #84)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:57 PM

114. This is silly and personal. He has a cause that is the same as ours. Read my last post # 108.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #114)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:38 PM

181. Sanders made it personal when he tried to oust Barney Frank.

Last edited Sun Jun 19, 2016, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Sanders's concession demands include a few that are highly personal and seem purely vindictive.

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #181)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:45 PM

182. Barney Frank is retired. Right? Bernie will be rolling into the mix soon and his views are smart.

Let's play nice now and win the White House for the good of the Country.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #182)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:06 PM

207. Bernie is 18 months younger than Barney Frank

Anything he wanted to accomplish in his political life, he should have done by now.

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Response to The Wielding Truth (Reply #58)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:09 PM

174. Some folks are always looking for an ax to grind.

 

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:16 PM

74. It is true...didn't Ann Richards

used to say..."Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, except backwards and in high heels." So it is still.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:58 AM

4. So Sanders is only running because Hillary is a female?

 

You actually believe this?

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:03 PM

12. You think Sanders is running right now?

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:05 PM

15. Oooooo Berrrrrrrn.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #15)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:31 PM

213. Burn or Berrrrn? Wow: I haven't heard that one since 5th grade!

 

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:25 PM

85. LOL




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Response to LexVegas (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:12 PM

147. It's your assertion

 

Laughable indeed

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:42 PM

166. LOL!

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:14 PM

71. He feels he can get away with his shit because she is female...different rules for her

Why else is she only one in our history to be treated this way? n

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #71)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:32 PM

149. And you actually believe this?

 

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #71)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 08:59 PM

191. Not sure if it's concious or unconcious on his part, don't care, but the media treatment,

the complete lack of examination and obvious double standards are quite in your face.


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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:18 PM

75. No but he won't concede because she is.

How many women on his staff? How many female ADVISERS?

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #75)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:32 PM

150. You actually believe this?

 

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #150)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:55 PM

159. Yep.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:39 PM

98. What a cute little straw man you made there, look at his whittle hat, how sweet!

Adorable!

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:19 PM

129. I don't think anyone said or implied that.

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Response to George II (Reply #129)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:34 PM

152. See post #1

 

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #152)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:39 PM

155. I did. This is your post that I responded to:

"So Sanders is only running because Hillary is a female?"

And I still say that I don't think anyone said that.

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Response to George II (Reply #155)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:42 PM

156. Thats what the poster implied

 

And the fact she is now going off on the standard 'mansplain' strawman proves me right.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #156)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:28 PM

179. Ah....."implied". So you're attributing something that she DIDN'T say to her post?

So you agree with me that no one ever said that but, as a stretch, "implied" that.

Well, thanks. Time for dinner for me.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #156)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:37 PM

216. not running------just not conceding when he lost. theres the difference.

There are no state elections left. he lost pure and simple.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #1)


Response to LexVegas (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:15 PM

24. Yup, I think we all know this, even if it is just a nagging thought. nt

 

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:30 PM

33. Hillary was MUCH closer to Obama, can you imagine if she'd refused to concede?

Bernie lost this thing in an old-fashioned drubbing, yet feels entitled to act like he's a co-nominee.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #33)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:36 PM

38. I don't have to imagine it it actually happened. Clinton did refuse to concede when Obama clinched..

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #38)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:47 PM

46. And 4 days later she conceded and endorsed Obama.

Did you forget that part?

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #46)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:05 PM

65. And the margin of victory was razor thin then, not like this near-landslide we have now.

At the convention Hillary also stopped the balloting and asked that Obama be declared the nominee by acclamation.

That's what's called maturity, humility and grace.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #46)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:08 PM

67. Yes eventually she endorsed Obama. Do you think Sanders will eventually endorse Clinton? n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #67)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:27 PM

88. I don't know. I hope so, but time will tell.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #38)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:50 PM

53. And could you tell us

 

how you felt about it then and how you feel about Bernie not conceding now?

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #53)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:53 PM

56. In both cases I believe it didn't change the fact that the other person was going to be the nominee

and eventually the loser would endorse the winner.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #56)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:04 PM

206. Wrong answer, it matters

That Sander is treating the first woman nominee like dirt...it matters.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #53)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:37 PM

97. I was disappointed that she had not won the nomination, but accepted

that she was doing the right thing. It was clear that Obama had received more votes and more delegates and there was nothing to be gained by pretending that the contest was not over.

Frankly, I'm puzzled by Bernie's refusal. He has to know by now that there is no chance that he will be the nominee. I would have expected him to concede, endorse Hillary and encourage his supporters to do the same.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #97)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:12 PM

125. I felt the same

 

Then Sen Obama has more delegates after all the states had voted (as Hillary does now). Every day that Bernie keeps this up he's losing more and more leverage. Now he's just pissing people who aren't already his supporters off. The media will start ignoring him and nobody will care what he wants by the time the convention rolls around.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #97)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:54 PM

142. Senator Sanders


It is well known that Hillary had a private meeting w/Obama & asked him to appoint her SOS to create a path for a future Presidential Run & also that he would help her pay off her campaign debt. Hillary is all about her--she is the one who has an ego problem. The stark contrast between Hillary & Bernie is obvious. Bernie's speech to his supporters was just beautiful--not about him but continue working together for the middle class, poor, raising minimum wage, moral economy, climate change, etc. Senator Sanders urged supporters to get involved in local, state & federal politics & to run for office as their passion, fresh ideas are needed.

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Response to liberal from boston (Reply #142)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:07 PM

146. Do you have a credible source for your claim about the agreement between Hillary and Obama

regarding the SOS appointment? I've heard that rumor before.

Also, if Bernie is urging his supporters to get involved in politics at all levels, why hasn't he been stronger in aiding down ticket candidates in their races?

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Response to liberal from boston (Reply #142)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:55 PM

170. "well known" ...

please post a credible link about this.


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Response to liberal from boston (Reply #142)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:10 PM

211. It's more well-known she refused the job the first two times Obama offered it to her

She didn't want to leave the Senate, so Obama had to ask her to do it repeatedly.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:50 PM

52. No doubt

 

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:14 PM

127. Or if Clinton was a male and Sanders were a female he would have conceded on Wednesday....

...just like Clinton did when she ran against Obama.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:34 PM

196. If Hillary were a male, with her same negatives, I think it would have been impossible

 

to be even having this discussion, because *HE* never would have made it this far to become the presumptive nominee.

Has Hillary been treated differently because she's a woman? MOST CERTAINLY...

... because some women have supported her just because she's a woman.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:57 AM

2. You will note that both Trump and Bernie have suggested they are

 

better for women than HRC. It's disquieting.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:59 AM

6. Being female doesn't automatically make her better for women

 

Policies make the politician, not gender.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:14 PM

22. I am so glad a man explained that to us. nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #22)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:18 PM

28. Do you disagree with what I said?

 

If so, explain where I am wrong.

Thanks in advance!

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:25 PM

32. you are male. I have absolutely no interest

 

In your viewpoint as to what is good for me. And I don't respond to demands from males on policies affecting women. When you have a uterus, I'll listen.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:37 PM

39. x 1000

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:48 PM

47. You sound like fun. nt

 

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #47)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:09 PM

193. Women do not exist for your fun.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:18 PM

77. right on!!! nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:45 PM

100. Boom!

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:36 PM

153. So you have issues with men

 

So its you that has the problem?

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #153)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:07 PM

172. More feminist bashing 101.

 

You guys aren't very good at this.



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Response to JTFrog (Reply #172)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:53 PM

183. In her own words...

 

She can clarify is I am wrong.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #183)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 06:02 PM

185. She never said she had a problem with all men.

 

It's just a typical feminist bashing response to automatically assume that a feminist hates all men. That kind of compartmentalizing makes for a really lazy argument.

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #185)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 07:07 PM

188. See post #31

 

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:34 PM

35. Wow. Nothing like trying to defeat sexism by acting the same.

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #35)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:39 PM

40. Says another man who thinks he has the right to tell women what is better for women

But does not.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #40)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:14 PM

72. Boy, I like the feisty women on this thread. They ain't taking no sh_t from mansplainers.

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Response to brush (Reply #72)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:19 PM

78. Damn right nt

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Response to brush (Reply #72)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:46 PM

104. Thanks :-)

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Response to brush (Reply #72)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:06 PM

120. Yes, enough with the bullshit.

.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #40)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:59 PM

116. Prove that I have those "thoughts". I believe that women and men should have equal footing,

 

and I will object when men make sexist remarks as well as when women make sexist remarks.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #116)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:32 PM

135. Do you think maybe women are behaviorally policed enough already.

Thanks for your "help" Rick. Maybe direct it somewhere useful to equality if it's really so important to you.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #116)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:36 PM

137. I'm sure you put the same effort into fighting for the Equal Rights Amendment that you do

into telling women we are not discussing the issues in a way that is sufficiently comfortable to you online.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #116)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:07 PM

208. So you say...too bad your candidate can't bring himself to concede to a woman...she must win him

over...must earn his concession...she is being treated horribly and it is no coincidence she is the first woman nominee.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #35)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:52 PM

110. You're right. Women are the one's who need to play fair here. That's where the real problem in our

society is. Women are the ones we need to target to behave and be fair here.

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Response to shadowandblossom (Reply #110)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:55 PM

111. Now there I will have to disagree with you. It should not be about gender.

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #111)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:57 PM

113. Let sweet Bernie know that will you.

His old fashioned behavior is tiresome and outdated.

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Response to shadowandblossom (Reply #113)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:04 PM

118. "His old fashioned behavior is tiresome and outdated." So you think he is too old?

 

How about his hair?

Don't discuss issues, attack his age and looks.

I am done with you.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #118)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:08 PM

121. In the English language adjetives precede what they describe.

Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Bye

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #111)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:59 PM

115. Keep on waggling that finger Bernie style about what I said.

That'll fix gender equality and ensure equal rights for women.

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Response to shadowandblossom (Reply #115)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:02 PM

117. I was wagging my finger because of what you posted, "You're right. Women are the one's who need to

 

play fair here. That's where the real problem in our society is. Women are the ones we need to target to behave and be fair here." I think that's kinda sexist, isn't it? Your words, "Women are the ones we need to target to behave..." I disagree.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #117)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:10 PM

123. Wow that's dishonest. Do you need to misrepresent the context because you can't address it or

because you don't understand? I expect it's intentional looking at the other reply you made.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #117)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:27 PM

161. I guess shadowandblossom

should have used the sarcasm smilie for the ironically challenged. Sheesh. The stupid...it "BERNS"

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #28)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:18 PM

76. Among Republicans

Yes, Republicans women may not be as good. Any Democrat would be better, male or female.

Here it is not the policies, it is the underlying behavior. When it is different than it has ever been before and the opposition is taken to the last end, you have to wonder if it had been another man, would things have been done the gentleman's way. Look at how they treated President Obama- none of the traditional respect they demand for the office, carrying on way past their usual limits.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:35 PM

36. Right on. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #36)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:40 PM

41. And then the dudes high5 eachother for explaining to the women what is best for them

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #41)


Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:02 PM

61. Only finger waving man splaining men...

I am married to the best guy on earth.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #61)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:05 PM

119. You know, the very fact that we feel almost compelled to justify and qualify our feminism with

"But I am married to a good man" is so wrong. Please, please, please, please don't take this statement of mine to be any kind of criticism of you in any way shape or form. It is NOT.

I had to fight against myself really hard just now to keep from doing the exact same thing.

We are so accustomed to defending ourselves from male attack in the form of stereotypes those same males have deemed negative. We all know what they're trying to paint us as, what they mean with belittling statements about "hatred for men." They mean the trademark man-hating lesbian she-beast.

I've decided it's none of their business that I've been married to a male feminist for X number of years or anything else that upsets their small-minded preformed schema. So what if I were a 485lb lesbian with half a set of teeth, a bad haircut and a dartboard on the wall sporting pictures of randomly rotating men and their genitalia? It would not make the truth of my statements any less true.

Feminists understand that a man has no credibility and no right to dictate to a woman what is best for her when it comes to matters of her sex.



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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #119)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:15 PM

128. discussing the issues = hatred of men apparently according to some of the people here

I think it's okay to make fun of the subconscious bro-code behavior though. It deserves mockery and I can't think of a better response when we are trying to discuss the issues and they are simply crying and deflecting by claiming we are discussing the issues wrong or pretending the issues are irrelevant/don't exist because they are not affected by them personally.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #119)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:19 PM

130. You are right. I shouldn't have done that good for you!

I felt bad like I was being disloyal to my two best guys...my son and my husband but why did I feel like that I wasn't?


"I've decided it's none of their business that I've been married to a male feminist for X number of years or anything else that upsets their small-minded preformed schema. So what if I were a 485lb lesbian with half a set of teeth, a bad haircut and a dartboard on the wall sporting pictures of randomly rotating men and their genitalia? It would not make the truth of my statements any less true."

I love that!!!!! So true... I can just picture her throwing those darts...hahahaha

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #130)


Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #130)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:32 PM

151. The poster, by hurling the "man-hater" slur at you tried to make it about feelings

It's not about feelings, it's about behavior.

I had to delete my own, very similar statement to yours. Then I thought "wait a minute, I do NOT need to justify anything here to this person, and my personal life is not relevant to the facts of paternalistic behavior."

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #119)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:00 AM

218. right. asif we can't decide that for ourselves. like they know what's best for us

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:19 PM

79. disagreement isn't hatred

and no longer deferring to men, that's feminism, not hatred of men. Surprised you'd pull out that right wing meme.

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Response to treestar (Reply #79)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:27 PM

87. I fully recognize the difference between hatred and "disagreement". I recognize the vitriol.

 

I fully support women and women's rights and issues. I do not support the idea that women are free from criticism just because they are women. The Left has always been very supportive of women and women's right, even more so that the so-called centrists (corporatists). Why disparage the Left?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #87)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:31 PM

91. no one said they could be free from criticism

Just extra criticism that wouldn't be produced for a man in the same position. Extra scrutiny.

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Response to treestar (Reply #91)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:35 PM

96. You must be joking. All criticisms of Hillary are called sexist. It's a tool, a tactic, used

 

mostly by conservatives to shut down a discussion. You can't fight sexism via sexism.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #96)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 11:49 AM

227. Not true.

All criticisms are not called sexist. Just the extra ones that would not apply to a man. Comments about clothes, hair, age. Extra pickiness about what she does where men get some slack.

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Response to treestar (Reply #227)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:22 PM

229. I keep hearing a lot about such posts and some here use that as justification for

 

ridiculing others, but I have not seen such posts. I agree with you about comments about clothes, hair, age as not appropriate but would point out that those same comments seem to be ok when applied to Sanders.

But this, "Extra pickiness about what she does where men get some slack." Is too subjective.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #87)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:40 PM

99. Feminists (men and women alike) understand that it is not the place of a man to explain to women

what is best for women. We do not need to tell you our thoughts are wrong, our actions are wrong, our votes are wrong when it comes to matters of our sex.





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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #99)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:45 PM

102. I agree with what you wrote. But that doesn't mean that men are capable of fighting for women's

 

rights. Why would you show such vitriol towards progressives of any gender? No one on the left is high 5'ing over telling women what to do.

Progressives have historically done more for women's rights than conservatives, so why disparage progressives?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #102)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:23 PM

132. If those are the only tools in your box, may I suggest a trip to the hardware store

You keep pulling straw men out of there, and it's not working.

Men on this thread were high5ing over instructing women about what is best for them, as women.
Feminists know that sadly, this kind of behavior is not limited to any party or even ideology.
The mantle of progressivism does not absolve any person, male or female, from being called out on the truth of their behavior.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:43 PM

139. You're so generous for helping us wee women folk understand Rick. Thank you.

We have been so cruel to you! We should be discussing the "issues," just, provided they aren't the ones that impact us the worst.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:48 PM

168. Feminist bashing 101: Call them man haters.

 

For fuck's sake.



Here are some more tips: (Excerpt from a recent thread)

Of course accusations of sexism always bump up against several serious impediments:

1) Almost nobody will admit to it. Conservatives decided long ago that all such accusations (sexism, racism, homophobia, etc) are standard liberal bullshit whose only real intent is to shut down debate, and liberals tend to possess a sense of moral entitlement which leads them to consider themselves automatically exempt from all such accusations. (Side note: if you did roll your eyes above, there’s a good chance I’m describing you here. Sorry.)

2) Overt sexism is significantly more likely to be tolerated in our society than overt racism. It is a low-risk form of bigotry and discrimination that rarely damages professional or political careers. Because of this, far fewer people worry about crossing that line.

3) We have formed a sort of collective blindness to sexism that allows us to pretend that we are on top of the issue while simultaneously ignoring the many ways in which it actually permeates our society. (Side note 2: There’s a reason it’s called a “glass” ceiling.)

4) Unlike men, women who make demands are still often seen as unfeminine and inappropriately aggressive, bordering on deviant. And if the people most aggressively pushing against the glass ceiling are “broken” or “deviant”, it’s easier to justify dismissing both them and their concerns.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512188395



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Response to JTFrog (Reply #168)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 06:50 PM

187. Who is doing the bashing here? "Men on this thread were high5ing over instructing women about what

 

is best for them, as women." If this is happening then I don't support it, but I would like to see where this is happening.

I support women and women's rights and have always fought for them. I just don't understand the need to disparage progressives like I see in this thread.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #41)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:14 PM

126. Yup. Bro code! Whooo! Fistbump me bro.

Let's waggle our fingers at some uppity women.

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Response to shadowandblossom (Reply #126)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:25 PM

133. Yeah, those silly wimmin' all shreiking and yammering like hens and shit.

Last edited Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:25 AM - Edit history (2)

But we're progressives, so they have to listen.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #133)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:28 PM

134. They're hysterical, must be their hormones

the poor bros...

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:47 PM

106. Go on, erect another another straw man then.

.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:03 PM

11. Being a woman doesn't necessarily make

Your policies better for women. If that was the case, why not vote for Sarah Palin, Carlyle Fiorina etc? It's a question of policy.

Now Hillary obviously has better policy than Trump, but you could argue that some parts of Bernie's platform are better for women.

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Response to SpareribSP (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:04 PM

64. Not the point

The point is the first woman presidential woman has been treated like dirt...and conventions in place for decades now no longer apply. Finger waving mansplaining going on too...insufferable!

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Response to SpareribSP (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:21 PM

81. that well could be

though the question is, is she being treated equally? The old saying comes to mind that a woman has to do five times as much to get a fifth of the credit.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:07 PM

16. Disquieting is a woman who would vote for a woman because she is a woman!

 

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Response to peace13 (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:11 PM

19. Disquieting is that you think you have the right to challenge anyone's reasons for voting.

 

How and why it is your business is beyond me.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #19)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:17 PM

26. No, you are right.

 

That is your job. Too comical.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #19)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:36 PM

37. What irony.

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #37)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:57 PM

59. Rhett....how moderate you are. nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #59)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:33 PM

94. If by moderate you mean do I support cutting SS and Medicare? Or

 

supporting fracking, the TPP and NAFTA? By moderate do you mean supporting the Iraq war and other wars for profits? or support blanket spying on Americans by the NSA/CIA? By moderate do you mean disparaging a living wage and the medical use of marijuana? Do I support Prisons For Profits? If that's moderate to you, then I am proud not to be a moderate.

There are two sides in this Democratic fight. To deny such is to ignore the vitriol spouted by each side. One side is clearly for helping the people, the Progressive Wing. There is no denying that. The other side seems to believe the corporations will do a better job of "helping the peopled". Some people prefer to call this Wing "moderate". It sounds so much better than corporatist.

Why do you hate the Left so much?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #94)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:36 PM

154. My auto-correct changed moderator to moderate.

 

so I didn't bother to read your reply. If you are looking for your rear... I believe my sisters are still kicking it around up thread.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #19)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:49 PM

50. Hilarious, coming from you. nt

 

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Response to peace13 (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:12 PM

21. Bernie's been banging that drum for a long time, shame so many fell for it

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Response to peace13 (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:20 PM

131. And here we go again with the pretending. None of us here would vote for Sara Palin and I think you

know that. There is however, actual evidence that people will vote for men simply because they are men and have done so for hundreds of years.

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Response to peace13 (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:53 PM

217. Yes, it's so much better to have women vote against a woman because she is a woman!

Everyone loves it when women hate women. The media loves it, and even some women love it. We just can't have women supporting other women; otherwise, we might get too powerful!

And of course, a woman supporting Hillary is the same as a woman supporting Palin or Fiorina. No difference at all. Because after all, when you're a woman, none of your views or accomplishments matter. Just the fact that you're a woman disqualifies you.

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Response to athena (Reply #217)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:30 AM

220. Actions speak louder than genitalia.

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:45 PM

101. Makes sense that happened with colonialism and with slavers too.

Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Paternalism is a theme with the people in power, even in the more watered down but still direly serious issues faced today. Yes, and that even with it's having been a focal point in her career. I hadn't seen the Donald do that yet... That is sort of chilling.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:53 PM

200. I noticed that too

 

Add black people to that list.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:59 AM

7. Bernie is becoming increasingly irrelevant. I don't think his endorsement is going to make any

difference.

We can forget him completely

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Response to MariaThinks (Reply #7)


Response to Post removed (Reply #8)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:15 PM

25. thanks for reading it and probably geting the post hidden. Never mind the attacks on Hillary

prior to my comment attacking her clothes, her voice, her mannerisms and everything else about her.

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Response to MariaThinks (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:01 PM

9. Then why all the agonized hand wringing OPs

 

By desperate Hillary supporters with their gut wrenching warnings of gloom and doom?

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:03 PM

62. I just noticed your monkey/dog gif...

Now I can't stop watching it...and laughing. It's hilarious!

TYY

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:34 PM

163. Desperate?

We WON, in case you didn't notice. You may not like it but the FACT is a woman won and a man lost. And now the man can't stand it.

But excuse me, we shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about politics; leave it to the menfolk.

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Response to MariaThinks (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:04 PM

13. He makes himself less relevant daily.

If he gets on board before the convention, fine. Otherwise he should be quietly dismissed.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #13)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:11 PM

20. He's got terrible timing. Vanity prevents him from seizing golden opportunities.

It's like someone who plays a slot machine and wins a small jackpot, but not the JUMBO bells-ringing, siren-blaring, flashing-lights jackpot. Instead of being a smart player, calling it a day, and taking home the winnings, a greedy player will continue to play WITH their winnings until those are all gone too. Eventually, they go home with nothing, or with LESS than when they arrived.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:05 PM

14. A red herring.....Disagree with his current actions, but please don't make stuff up

 

Clinton is likely the first Democratic nominee for President. Great. Wonderful.

But that does not excuse her from the give and take of politics (or governing if she gets to the WH).

Sanders actions have nothing to do with the fact that Clinton is female.

That's just a handy way to dismiss the legitimate reasons he has been holding off on an endorsement (which he will most likely make at a time he believes is right.)

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Response to Armstead (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:07 PM

17. The media would treat a woman refusing to condede to a man as a complete mental case

I give you what I believe to be true.

Edit to add; I do not believe his motivations for refusing to concede are gender-based. I believe his action in doing so at this point is influenced by gender. That's nuanced, but so is life.



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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #17)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:10 PM

18. They are treating Trump as a complete mental case...and he is a male

 

They happen to be correct on that....but it just shows to go you that Sanders holding off on an endorsement at this point is not about gender.

But obviously your mileage may (and does) vary.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:19 PM

29. Like points have to actually share likeness, Armstead.

Because the media treats a crazy a-hole like a crazy a-hole . . . what? What woman did he lose to (that's coming to be sure, but not yet) that he has refused to acknowledge as his victor?

Has Carly Fiorina refused to concede to him and made a litany of demands that are now being taken seriously by the media and I've somehow missed it?


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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #17)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:50 PM

54. Hillary refused to concede to Obama. You know that, right? nt

 

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #54)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:53 PM

57. Shhh!

 

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #54)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:00 PM

60. Three days after the last primary she conceded and endorsed...then worked to elect Obama.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #60)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:09 PM

68. Sure, but only after Obama promised to help her pay off her campaign debt. nt

 

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #68)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:29 PM

89. Yeah...that is not really true. Please note she took the SOS job knowing she could not fund-raise

in order to settle campaign debt...and this happened in 2012. Do you guys deliberately mislead...or is it intentional? She conceded because Obama might settle her debt with Obama fundraisers four years later? Really.




"Last week campaign disclosure reports revealed that Hillary Clinton had finally retired the debt from her 2008 presidential campaign—with a little help from the guy who beat her, Barack Obama. Clinton’s debt once totaled more than $20 million, although it had dwindled to about $250,000 by last year. That’s when a team of top Obama donors decided to surprise Clinton, and thank her for her loyal service, by raising enough money to pay off her bills. As secretary of state, she was forbidden from political fundraising."


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-01-28/obamas-parting-gift-to-hillary-clinton

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #68)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:47 PM

105. Not true at all

her debts were settled in 2012...what remained of them by Obama fund-raisers as she was leaving the SOS job. They surprised her. Please stop posting stuff that is not true. I put this on the thread earlier.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-01-28/obamas-parting-gift-to-hillary-clinton

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #54)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:21 PM

82. You're wrong.

The margin then was razor thin, not the near-landslide that Hillary has beaten Sanders by, and she conceded and actually halted the balloting at the convention by asking that Obama be declared the nominee by acclamation.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:14 PM

23. He won't endorse Hillary. He'll just continue to passively say that Trump should be defeated.

He'll weasel around and never come right out and say explicitly that he supports Hillary.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #23)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:18 PM

27. Can you make a suggestion on a number for the lottery I should place?

 

...since your psychic powers are so finely tuned?

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Response to Armstead (Reply #27)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:20 PM

30. I could, but I won't.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #30)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:44 PM

44. Oh, that's a good one. I'm stealing it, putting it in my pocket and keeping it to use later.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:32 AM

219. maybe you should have a bet with ARMSTEAD maybe a pro HILLARY POST if you are right

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Response to Armstead (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:46 PM

45. Really.



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Response to Armstead (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:32 PM

93. but is the give or take the same for her?

Has it been the same for President Obama?

Nobody would shout "you lie!" at the SOTU, nobody would ever have crossed the line before. How come the traditional gentlemen's agreements no longer applied?

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Response to treestar (Reply #93)


Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:22 PM

31. Very well said, I agree completely. nt

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:31 PM

34. Thank you for this

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Response to DemonGoddess (Reply #34)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 03:25 PM

235. You're very welcome. Needed said, out loud, and expanded on with evidence.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:41 PM

42. sadly, you are quite correct.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:44 PM

43. My girldar went off long ago...

finger waving and mansplained...and refusing to do the honorable thing and admit he lost the primary.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:48 PM

48. Indeed.

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Response to madamesilverspurs (Reply #48)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:48 PM

107. Hit the nail right on the head Madam...

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:49 PM

51. If anyone can demonstrate an example of a time when

another candidate faced the same level of financial and electoral corruption, and shutting up about it resulted in a lower level of said corruption, I'm willing to look at it objectively and reconsider whether Sanders should back off.

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Response to snot (Reply #51)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:54 PM

201. Obama faced the same thing only worse.

Of course Pres. Obama included women and POC in his campaign and made us feel welcome.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #201)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:55 PM

202. My god, thank you!

 

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:51 PM

55. If the other candidate

were a neo-liberal, the result would be the same.

If not, Sanders probably wouldn't even have run.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #55)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:11 PM

69. Nope Sanders would not dare do this to another man...it is save for a woman presidential nominee

That and the finger wagging and mansplaining...so condescending...so Sanders have you examined Clinton to know if you can ever deem her worthy of your oh so coveted endorsement...are you still in it to win it like Weaver said yesterday?

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:04 PM

63. Agreed, like there were many firsts in being exceptionally obtuse

when it came to Obama, Hillary will get her share of it too.

Remember them meeting to make sure he only gets one term the night of the inauguration? If it was one of their white men, they'd be demanding unity on that day at least. Here their hatred exceeded their patriotism.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:06 PM

66. I have to agree.

I really wanted to believe Senator Sanders was better than this. I have defended him on this board, saying I believed he would keep his word. He has not. He is now actively working against the Democratic Party and its efforts to unify and present a united front to beat Trump into the ground.

And yes, I completely agree with your reasoning. Most especially about the media's coverage.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #66)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:12 PM

124. As did I auntpurl. I defended him many times, called for patience

Reached out to extend olive branches even though my hand was bit time and again.

His little stunt last night opened my eyes, and I am genuinely saddened.



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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:15 PM

73. Again, Hillary supporters attack Bernie & base ... is this REALLY best to win his base for Nov?

Of COURSE Bernie will not only endorse Hillary by the end of the Convention, he will then go out and actively campaign for her

The question is what percentage of his base will follow suit. That is a huge question mark. If that percentage is as low as 65% (either not voting for pres or voting third party, or in a few cases for Trump) that really hurts Hillary. If she were to get over 90% (unlikely but possible) that would be huge difference

Even if it were fair to attack Bernie as a sexist, which I personally think is ridiculous, WHY DO IT NOW? Clearly the task is NOT to get Bernie and his base to clam up and line up asap, but rather to win the largest percentage possible of that base IN NOVEMBER, without correspondingly alienating swing voters who are moderate and considering voting GOP. That is the issue to debate on what changes might be made to the platform -- in addition to the merits of the issue or push, does it REALLY tend to drive away a significant number of swing voters to the Repubs? If not, why fight it? What is to be gained by all these threads (I have so far commented on more than one) accusing Bernie of sexism?

On this and an host of other memes from the HRC camp on DU (and elsewhere, eg twittersphere) this express hostility towards Sanderistas and Sanders is NOT calculated to win over the most Bernie-supporters, or others, but tends to do the opposite -- almost as if the goal were not so much to win as to blame defeat on Bernie & his base

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #73)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:46 PM

103. Why should Hillary have to "win" Sanders' base?

That's a steaming pile of privileged, self-aggrandizing bullshit.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #103)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:52 PM

109. They should come to heel

no matter what she says or does.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #103)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:35 PM

136. And increasingly unnecessary, as her margins against Trump continue to rise

without Sanders' endorsement.

He makes himself smaller each day. He's becoming the incredible shrinking Sanders.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #136)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:44 PM

167. Yep. Turns out that Sanders is a mere ideologue, rather than a good politician.

He's the three-year-old who stamped his foot too often and ended up getting disciplined, rather than appeased.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #167)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:25 PM

194. I think he's happier being miserable. God knows he's had decades of practice at it

It's doubtless more familiar to him, and humans tend to stick with what's familiar. For SBS, that means spending 35 years in elected office, playing the outsider and screaming about "the establishment."

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #194)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:01 PM

204. Ha.. I was just on your jury for this innocuous post..

On Fri Jun 17, 2016, 09:46 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I think he's happier being miserable. God knows he's had decades of practice at it
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2200461

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

What a nasty thing to say about Sanders who has fought for us for decades, would a post claiming Clinton is "happier being miserable" be allowed to stand? The attacks on both have to end.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jun 17, 2016, 09:53 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is an inappropriate post. Time to hide. A post like this about Hillary would also need hiding.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's negative, but it doesn't seem even vaguely worthy of a hide to me. Should everything negative anyone says about any public figures be hidden? I don't think that's an expectation here.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nah.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Get a grip, Alerter.. She's allowed to have an opinion on BS that doesn't coincide with yours.

BS has brought this on himself after months of disingenuously demonizing the Democratic party.. and not even showing up for the Filibuster led by Sen Chris Murphy.

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given



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Response to Cha (Reply #204)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:10 PM

210. Mother of Zeus, Cha. LOL

Oh my oh my. So many alert stalkers, so little time.

Oh well. MONDAY.

Love ya Cha

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #210)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:28 PM

212. Monday.

The tables they are a turning!

Love ya back, Maru~

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #136)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 09:55 PM

192. I hope your extreme confidence in an HRC victory in November is warranted ...

for the sake of America and for progressives like myself. Trump is very scary. For a long time Bernie-backers have been warned that even the mildest of socialists was too much of a risk in the face of Trump. Now you say you don't need his base.

In the face of the Orlando Massacre, which over time could provide (with mega-advertising of fear from superPACs) the basis for a Trump victory, I remain more nervous than you. And if Bernie's backers, including in swing states, aren't needed for a Hillary victory in November, I'm totally OK with that

But if your optimism is NOT warranted, then I suspect Bernie & his base will be the first to be blamed

we shall see ...

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:21 PM

80. As a woman,

this article is a tremendous embarrassment...but then, vagina=voting for Hillary in many circles.

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Response to kiva (Reply #80)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:34 PM

95. Seriously.

 

Im soooooo sick of this 'everything is sexism' bullshit. Its at 'boy who cried wolf' levels already.

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Response to kiva (Reply #80)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:57 PM

143. Right because it's not like people can object to something about Saint Bernie

aside from his genitals, or like we should be allowed to discuss double standards in politics on a political message board.

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Response to shadowandblossom (Reply #143)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:03 PM

145. Nope, it's like some of us

are tired of hearing that any criticism of Hillary is about sexism.

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Response to kiva (Reply #145)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:31 PM

148. If the shoe fits.... But that's probably just my vagina talking.

I figure if it can vote it can talk too. Can't wait until saint Bernie is gone.

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Response to shadowandblossom (Reply #148)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:42 PM

165. +1,000

Absolutely perfect!

BTW, my vagina is busy doing other things! I'll just vote with my hands and brain.

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #165)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 03:43 AM

222. I thought that's what I was doing too

but according to the penis voters having a vagina is like being in a body snatcher movie where you've been taken over by aliens.

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Response to shadowandblossom (Reply #148)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:47 PM

197. Vagina voters... like we vote just because a woman is running...none of us

voted for Palin. It is meant to be such an insult. But I won't take it as such anymore! Maybe we need a vagina card? hehe.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #197)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 03:36 AM

221. Who knows what our vaginas might do next, they've gone rogue! They could shoot someone, or take up

drinking, they might travel the world, or play cards together. If they can vote and engage in total mind control over us I don't see why they can't have cards too. Heck, why not? Why, I heard mine is thinking of being a pilot in the airforce--I hope there's not a height requirement...

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Response to shadowandblossom (Reply #221)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 04:26 PM

236. My vagina sat in a chair at school for 19 1/2 years! No wonder it knows so damn smart!!

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Response to kiva (Reply #145)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:12 PM

175. Well, you BETTER be ready for it. You're gonna get 4 yrs of it!

 

And maybe 8!

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:30 PM

90. I agree

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:09 PM

122. Great post!

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 02:57 PM

144. Can't rect his highly enough

 

The language of many of the Sanders supporters on this board suggest that they see things very much in terms of status displays and domination/submission dynamics. all the talk about ideals and principles and movements are little more than attempts to distract from the fact that Sanders has yet to acknowledge Clinton being the winner. I watched his whole speech yesterday, and while you could infer that he was the losing candidate from a careful parsing of his words, it's pretty pathetic that he can't simply acknowledge the fact that Clinton has ended the race considerably ahead of him.

His campaign went so far into demonizing Clinton that Sanders has now left himself in the position that he can't cooperate with her to win the GE and implement a more progressive agenda without getting labeled as a sellout by many of the people he's been pandering too in recent months. Sure, there were bitter words exchanged during the 2008 campaign too, like when one of Obama's surrogates referred to Hillary Clinton as a 'monster' - except that the surrogate in question was fired from that job immediately afterwards, because Obama rightly weighed the short-term political advantage that could accrue as being worth less than the potential gains from working together down the line.

Yes, it's true that Sanders has won about 45% of the vote, as he and his supporters never tire of pointing out...yet they seem deeply unwilling to acknowledge that Clinton has won about 55% of the same vote, and that having the larger number makes her the winner.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #157)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:16 PM

160. Yes, that's a tricky one.

Wait a minute...

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Response to Post removed (Reply #157)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:40 PM

164. Yes! That is a very apt comparrison

Worthy of expansion in itself. The delegitimatizing of candidates not elected with majority white male support.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:52 PM

158. If these were to men

 

The preemptive nominee would recognize the fundamental differences separating their political philosophies, and the importance of 12 million voters to the hopes of their party sweeping GOPers from every corner of our political discourse. The two men would meet and try to figure out how best to move this agenda forward. After the meeting they would emerge talking about mutual respect and goals. In other words, they would do EXACTLY WHAT SECRETARY CLINTON AND SENATOR SANDERS DID.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #158)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:29 PM

162. It's "two" dear. And simple sportsmanship demands

better behavior from Mr. Sanders than he now shows. We teach small children that at the end of the game, you shake hands with the team that beat you and congratulate them on their win. Mr. Sanders thus far lacks this simple sportsmanship or grace.

A woman refusing to concede to a man in the face of such a thorough defeat, while also continuing to shout red-faced demands of her victor would be torn limb from limb by the media and treated as a mental case here and elsewhere.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I do not believe his motivations for refusing to concede his defeat are based in gender. I do absolutely believe his action in refusing to concede is greatly influenced by gender at this point. This is nuanced, but so is life.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #162)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:52 PM

169. Did you seriously

 

correct spelling in a message board post, dear?

Here's the difference between Secretary Clinton and folks like you. She lives in the real world where she deals with REAL party dilemmas. You live in a world where you can act like a petulant child because 12 million Democratic voting someones see the world differently and someone named Sanders won't let their voices go silent just because he lost.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #169)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:50 PM

198. Sanders should let his voice go silent but for one sentence...I Bernie Sanders concede the primary

and endorse without reservation ...Hillary Clinton.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #198)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 04:34 AM

224. I congratulate her on the historic victory she has accomplished.

.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #158)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:01 PM

205. hahaha..sure they would

I bet Sanders would not say that Senator whoever had to impress him and agree with him and kiss his derriere though. That is treatment reserved for women and in this case the first woman nominee...Name one man who was ever treated this way ...one...you can't.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #205)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 03:55 AM

223. BINGO. Perfectly expressed.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #205)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:51 AM

225. Of course

 

None of that was said here. That scenario is the self-pitying drivel of a handful of Hillary supporters who believe that standing for anyone other than their anointed was misogyny. Luckily Secretary Clinton did not share their sense of entitlement.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:07 PM

173. He doesnt want DWS out because she's a woman,

 

its because he feels she was part of the "system" being stacked against him from the start

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Response to 7962 (Reply #173)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:33 PM

195. Well good news. DWS is out.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/16/politics/hillary-clinton-campaign-dnc/index.html

Clinton campaign takes control of DNC

(CNN) - Hillary Clinton's campaign is taking the reins of the Democratic National Committee, installing a new top official on Thursday to oversee the party's day-to-day operations through the general election.
Brandon Davis, national political director for the Service Employees International Union, will become the general election chief of staff for the Democratic Party. His selection formalizes the coordination of the Clinton campaign and the committee, a stark contrast to Donald Trump who is currently at odds with his party.
Robby Mook, the Clinton campaign manager, arrived Thursday morning at Democratic headquarters on Capitol Hill to introduce Davis to the party's staff.

"We have a lot of work to do over the next five months to make sure that Donald Trump does not become president," Mook said as he introduced Davis, according to a person in the room. "With so much at stake in this election, we could not ask for a better partner in that mission than the team here."

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Response to 7962 (Reply #173)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:52 PM

199. I don't know...it seems most of the people attacked are women.

I think Bernie has behaved horribly towards the first woman presidential nominee...she won but is supposed to kiss his derriere...no way. I think and I have heard people on TV say he is blowing it and becoming more irrelevant every day.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:13 PM

176. Bernie is so set in his ways, I don't think he even realizes when he is

treating people differently because of sex or race.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #176)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 07:44 PM

190. I agree with this. I think his tin ear has prevented consideration

that he may be wrong about, well, anything.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #190)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:58 PM

203. The finger waving at the debates really frosted me...the you better listen little lady type attitude

What woman has not had to put up with that shit and worse often?

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:18 PM

178. What if both candidates were WASPs?

 

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 07:28 PM

189. Massive K & R. Thanks for posting. So spot on.

 

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:31 PM

214. More 'cry wolf' sexism from the neoliberal propagandists who don't care that they diminish actual

 

sexism in their false attacks on honorable people.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:33 PM

215. Clinton campaign continued after backing Obama

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/24/clinton-tells-fec-she-kept-campaigning-after-conce/

UPDATE:
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s team has told the Federal Election Commission that she continued her campaign even after endorsing Democratic presidential rival Barack Obama on June 7, a claim that lets her transfer millions of dollars from her presidential bid to her Senate campaign.
The former first lady made the $6.4 million transfer from her White House campaign, which remains more than $7 million in debt, to Friends of Hillary on Aug. 28. That date would fall outside the legal deadline for making such a move if her campaign were to have ended June 7.
Her campaign treasurer told federal regulators that Mrs. Clinton spent more than a quarter-million dollars engaging in “vigorous political activity” throughout June, according to newly released FEC filings.
“The committee continued to actively contest for delegates at the state and local delegate-selection events during the month of June,” campaign treasurer Shelly Moskwa wrote in a letter to the FEC dated Nov. 20. “Nothing in Senator Clinton’s remarks indicated that she was withdrawing from the race.
“While she indicated that she was suspending her campaign, the term ‘suspension’ has no legal meaning,” Ms. Moskwa wrote.
...

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 09:22 AM

226. This is all because of two things

Bernie doesn't want to be bribed with a cabinet position

And second, Hillary is too dumb to just say, "yeah we'll do that" to whatever Bernie is asking and then just do whatever the hell she wants anyway. How hard is this?

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:06 PM

228. Why the push to always conflate policy differences with misogyny? It's very untrue,

 

and singles only the fact that Hillary camp is unable to discuss "Issues" for fear of exposing the fact that they really aren't that very "progressive" afterall.

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Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #228)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:56 PM

233. The OP isn't about policy issues. Read, and try to keep up.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Original post)

Sat Jun 18, 2016, 01:09 PM

231. I'm glad Hillary isn't the tender flower her supporters seem to be.

News flash: if you look at Hillary crosseyed it's not misogyny.

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