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Tommy_Carcetti

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23. The animosity isn't anywhere as great as you claim.

Tue Jul 1, 2014, 03:15 PM

Jul 2014

Last edited Tue Jul 1, 2014, 05:56 PM - Edit history (1)

For 22 years with Ukraine as an independent state, there was no significant attempts to divide the country between East and West.

Then, just weeks after the country had weathered its most serious internal crisis since the break up of the USSR, suddenly the country must be split in two? It all started in Crimea a week after Yanukovych skipped town and then magically the same players there shifted over to the East, claiming "persecution" of Ethnic Russians that never had existed before.

The fact is though that the majority of persons in Eastern Ukraine do consider themselves ethnically Ukrainian (regardless of what language they primarily speak) and even now, they don't wish to see the country broken apart. Which is the goal of the armed separatists, many of whom are waiving the Russian flag and some of whom are actually Russian citizens.

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Ukraine launches offensive in east, vows to rid country of 'parasites'. [View all] another_liberal Jul 2014 OP

"Dirt and parasites." That's some pretty ugly, dehumanizing rhetoric. It doesn't bode well. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2014 #1

No, it does not . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #13

Anarchy in Kyiv "Self Defense" forces fight amongst each other - Video newthinking Jul 2014 #60

Anarchy in Kyiv - Maidan group assaults "Fatherland" MP newthinking Jul 2014 #61

And so it begins . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #70

Yes, it is ugly, but I think that he is referring to the separatist fighters who are amandabeech Jul 2014 #22

I am not certain calling separatist fighters parasites and dirt... Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #36

Doesn't sound like something you'd expect from the "good guys," does it? Distant Quasar Jul 2014 #37

It's not the most flowery of prose.... Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #39

It is more than just unflowery prose. It's actually quite aggressive... Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #40

It's wartime rhetoric, no more and no less. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #41

I think it could potentially devolve into deep ethnic conflict... Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #42

I predict a descent into disorder, that's how it will settle out. bemildred Jul 2014 #2

I think there is a good chance . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #10

I dunno, I think they all make shit up. bemildred Jul 2014 #14

Yeah, maybe, but I think the West will perpetuate it ballyhoo Jul 2014 #35

Putin cannot be trusted, I agree get rid of of the paramilitary scum. Oops I meant parasites. William769 Jul 2014 #3

You can't seriously mean that comment to be taken at face value? another_liberal Jul 2014 #7

Yes I can. William769 Jul 2014 #8

Given your avatar, your vitriol is bitterly ironic RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #11

.......... Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #27

A Putin is plainly on his way to restoring the pink triangle in Russia. William769 Jul 2014 #31

Whoosh! You obviously don't get it. RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #34

I understand completely. William769 Jul 2014 #38

It takes all kinds . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #12

With apologies to Mike Godwin, this kind of talk sounds ominously familiar RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #4

Sadly, that is the situation . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #6

Let's get a hold of ourselves here, people. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #19

You realize the animosity between eastern and western Ukraine is more than 350 years old, right? RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #21

The animosity isn't anywhere as great as you claim. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #23

I know this.. sendero Jul 2014 #43

Is that really you, God? another_liberal Jul 2014 #66

mocking common sense.. sendero Jul 2014 #69

Who are you to order ethnic Russian Ukrainians to leave their homes? another_liberal Jul 2014 #71

They physically live in another country.. sendero Jul 2014 #72

The U. N. Charter enshrines the right of ethnic minorities to claim self-determination. another_liberal Jul 2014 #74

I think every selfish. sendero Jul 2014 #75

That sure worked out for Duckhunter935 Jul 2014 #76

The Chechnyans were called "terrorists" too . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #77

Whom exactly Poroshenko may be referring to . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #53

This message was self-deleted by its author dipsydoodle Jul 2014 #5

Thanks . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #9

Uptodate on the subject from BBC here dipsydoodle Jul 2014 #17

While Poroshenko's rhetoric is bad, your equation of his "parasites" to mean "ethnic Russians" karynnj Jul 2014 #15

Exactly. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #24

I disagree . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #25

Okay, point out to me where he was referring to all ethnic Russians living in Ukraine. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #29

Poroshenko's comments are open to interpretation . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #32

UN says 54 thousand on June 27th: bemildred Jul 2014 #45

He is baiting Putin as instructed by his CIA masters cosmicone Jul 2014 #16

Good insight . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #26

Putin didn't say he was going to protect ethnic Russians. Not this time. Igel Jul 2014 #18

Everything is relative . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #28

The "simple" solution to all of this is.... lexx21 Jul 2014 #20

That is rather one-sided . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #30

Crimea is no longer a part of Ukraine.. lexx21 Jul 2014 #33

crimea was given to Ukraine in the soviet days cosmicone Jul 2014 #44

Ukrainians are not ethnically Russian. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #47

Who said they were? MattSh Jul 2014 #62

Crimea is no longer a part of Ukraine. dipsydoodle Jul 2014 #48

Putin says Russia will hold Ukraine accountable after ceasefire ends dipsydoodle Jul 2014 #46

well, Moscow, you did annex Ukrainian territory (Crimea) and continue to invade their country lanlady Jul 2014 #49

Good for Merkel and Hollande! another_liberal Jul 2014 #54

Fighting engulfs key city as Ukraine truce ends bemildred Jul 2014 #50

Pro-Russian rebels capture police HQ in Ukraine city bemildred Jul 2014 #51

Poroshenko says he wants to secure peace through making war . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #52

I don't know enough about him. bemildred Jul 2014 #55

Poroshenko seems to have been swayed by right wing demonstrations yesterday . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #56

I would hazard a guess that he is surrounded by enraged idiots bemildred Jul 2014 #57

Putin Warns Again of Force As Ukraine Fighting Spreads bemildred Jul 2014 #58

If European Leaders want to see an end to fighting in Ukraine . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #59

Remember, the IMF faned the flames jakeXT Jul 2014 #63

The background to that dipsydoodle Jul 2014 #65

Too right . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #67

That is an important point. another_liberal Jul 2014 #80

Exactly what happens in such a situation? Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #79

Negotiation is always better than outright war on civilians . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #81

What you're suggesting isn't negotiation, however. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #82

The Ukrainian forces "reached out" alright . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #89

DNR has no popular support. joshcryer Jul 2014 #64

No popular support? another_liberal Jul 2014 #68

Nope. joshcryer Jul 2014 #73

That's a totally subjective characterization . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #85

Well, public opinion polls showed little support for secession. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #78

Whose opinion polls? another_liberal Jul 2014 #83

Pew, for starters. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #84

Western media? another_liberal Jul 2014 #86

No, actually I don't see what you mean. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #87

It's not like there is no evidence most Russian-Ukrainians want independence . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #88

Those referendums were a farce and you know it. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #90

Maybe the poll you quoted is a farce as well . . . another_liberal Jul 2014 #91

You're asking if a poll conducted by Pew, with documented methodology, is a farce? Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2014 #93

I'm wondering if there is something else going on here... Xolodno Jul 2014 #92

Man, even Bush didn't call insurgents parasites. /nt Ash_F Jul 2014 #94