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Thu Apr 28, 2016, 07:50 PM

The Democratic Primary Ruined My Friendship!

Perhaps if we contemplate how pointless and unnecessary it is for other people to lose friends over their preferred primary candidate, then we get a little perspective on our own situation here on DU...

The Democratic Primary Ruined My Friendship!
Why Bernie-Hillary has gotten so personal.

By Michelle Goldberg

A couple months ago, one of my husband’s former colleagues from a progressive digital strategy firm popped up on his Facebook page to castigate him for supporting Hillary Clinton. “Matt, do you remember the exact date when you gave up?” the man wrote. “Was it when Obama turned out to be a damn conservative? Or were you never 100% behind this progressive thing to begin with? Tired of losing, so pick a candidate who, if she loses, it won’t really matter that much? I think it’s the last one. Sellout.”

That was the moment I realized that the Democratic primary, while incredibly high-minded compared with the Republican one, is creating lasting interpersonal enmity. On Saturday, Peter Wehner wrote in the New York Times about conservative friendships fraying in the age of Trump, describing people for whom “differences over the Trump candidacy have caused such a loss of respect that they feared their friendships would not survive, and that even if they did, they would never be the same.” I wish I could feel schadenfreude, but the same thing is happening among some committed progressives. Even now, with the primary season limping toward its foregone conclusion, collegial disagreement has given way to hostile incredulity, as people wonder how those who they thought saw the world in the same way could be so utterly, bafflingly wrong.

A necessary disclaimer—evidence for this is entirely anecdotal. The people who came to hate each other over the Democratic primary are a small, unrepresentative group of political obsessives. Most people never talk about politics online; in a 2012 Pew Research Center study, 84 percent of social media users said they’d “posted little or nothing related to politics in their recent status updates, comments, and links.” Like those Wehner writes about, people who’ve spoken to me about damaged relationships either work in liberal politics or are serious activists. They are part of a fairly minuscule subculture.

Among this little group, however, it’s easy to find people whose ties are being tested. “It has been an eye-opening and heartbreaking election cycle that has revealed some ugly truths about ‘progressive bros’ in my circle that will take some time for me to digest,” says Maryna Hrushetska, a 47-year-old curator and art adviser in Los Angeles who supports Clinton.* In the past, Hrushetska tells me, she’s worked on behalf of Palestinian rights and the environment, and she’s been shocked to see men she knows through those movements repeating sexist anti-Clinton slurs.

Read more at Slate...

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:04 PM

1. Which is why I do not argue during primaries

Not worth wasting your time trying to convince a person to change their beliefs when they don't want to. If your not doing that, then you are just posting to argue about things. Sorry, not fun. Best to wait till after the primaries to engage in this place. I don't care which one wins, just get it done!

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:10 PM

2. K&R!

 

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:14 PM

3. What is particularly interesting about this from Michelle is that

during the last decade she argued that the U.S. was already a post-feminist culture.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:58 PM

167. Imagine her surprise and shock, then....

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:14 PM

4. Yes, I hope we all come to our senses soon.

But I do see how people can get emotional in a heated campaign.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:14 PM

5. I think we need to understand that most voters

Will make smart decisions, in the end. Some people will not, but I believe that they are a tiny minority. It has been an ugly primary race. That's regrettable. I think it will settle out, though.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:22 PM

11. Yes, let's delegitimize them by clinging to the

 

"tiny minority" narrative, my friend.

If they were such a tiny minority, let's say like here on DU, then why did skinner feel the need to free all those who were on time out?

One might imagine that it was to even the playing field since Team H was losing badly.

Just my two cents on that tiny majority.

But on a more serious note...The Democratic (?) party is smaller than the independents that have been disenfranchised time and time again during this election season.

I would be careful that the "tiny minority" that you rush to reoeat may not be so tiny or the minority thst you claim they are.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:26 PM

14. Yah, OK then.

Watch.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:32 PM

20. My pardon. Aparently you have run out of

 


the ability to communicate.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:42 PM

30. Nope. I've run out of patience.

There's no point in communicating beyond simple statements at times. This is one of those times.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #30)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:48 PM

35. Or perhaps it is deeper than that?

 


Perhaps you believe that I am onto something to you just don't want to duscuss.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:49 PM

37. LOL.

Amazing...

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:50 PM

113. I think you just lost a friend.

Was it worth it?

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #113)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 06:33 AM

322. Guess that's what is with the old adage about..............

If you are a politician in need of friend, get a dog

My personal antecedent would be ' With friends like mine, i would be better off with enemies'

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:49 AM

251. Yep. It is.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:59 PM

45. Perhaps he just doesn't care what you are on to.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:36 PM

92. Maybe, just maybe

he's just a little sick of the constant bleating and whining around here.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:38 PM

97. Yeah, it's DEEP all right!!

It'll take a pressure washer to get this off the wellies.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:45 PM

107. Or maybe he's just bored with you. nt

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:12 PM

177. He's just not that into you, perhaps

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Response to Hekate (Reply #177)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:21 PM

181. Maybe, just maybe, Bernie supporters aren't just that into Hillary

 

Maybe it's her, not us . Just maybe.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #177)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:46 PM

201. To borrow a gif from M0rpheus, one of my fave DUers ever, some of these folks here have me like this



EVERY day.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #201)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:42 AM

245. That is hysterically funny, and an antidote to all the not-funny stuff!

Thaaaank you!

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Response to Number23 (Reply #201)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:47 PM

501. Perfect!

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #30)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:36 PM

93. Just one more example of the incivility of late--back in the day, even when we had heated

disagreements, this kind of "You--who have been here for a decade or more--have NO RIGHT to be here" attitude was not on display.

I've only seen this in the Post-DU3 era.

It sucks.

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Response to MADem (Reply #93)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:38 PM

153. I love your gif!

 

IT is beyond cute!

We just have a few more months and then it will cool down.....

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Response to Silver_Witch (Reply #153)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:12 PM

176. I had a cat that looked JUST like that for 21 years.

That cat went from west to east coast to southern Europe and northward, then back to America with me!

I had another cat that lived just as long that I picked up in Asia as a stray kitten.

For the longest time cats were plenty, then I got a bird and a few dogs.

My "pet transport" bills were getting outta hand!

Now I'm down to one dog and she's a handful!

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Response to MADem (Reply #93)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:28 AM

227. Could it be that the differences between candidates was never this stark? That a true leader emerged

I feel as though Bernie is once in a lifetime. And you all let him slip away for the status quo candidate. So many people will be left without hope. But so be it.

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #227)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:56 AM

256. It was rough in 08. Really rough.

But there was still that old school veneer that kept it from getting Limbaugh-style nasty.

That veneer has been stripped off, and some people are being total assholes. They engage in personal insult, invective, and all kinds of brutal nastiness. They will call you, to your face, directly AT you, ugly names--and their buddies will not hide the posts, so why bother to alert on them? They won't discuss the issues, they'd rather tell you about yourself--it's not all of 'em by a long shot, but the ones that do that kind of thing make it stink for the ones who don't do it like that.

Maybe the only way to play this is Pay To Play. I don't know what else the answer might be. The ability of people to sign up and have multiple accounts (and they get tombstoned often enough for that stuff so we know it happens) needs to cease.

Maybe, if people can't abide by the TOS, they need to take a one way trip to Discussionist.

As for Bernie, I don't see him as a leader at all-sorry. I see him as a guy who recognizes problems, but his "solutions" don't pass the smell test. He has to work WITH Congress--and he's so "popular" with them that his ONE (ONE--after a quarter century on the damn HILL) endorser in the Senate said today "If you're losing in June, you need to QUIT and not pull this 'take it to the Convention' crap" (that IS a paraphrase but the sense is accurate).

Those guys Do Not LIKE Him. You'd think he'd have a few friends after a quarter century between both Houses, but he hasn't gotten any love of note. Obama was The New Kid, but he had no trouble making friends who ENDORSED HIM. Almost NO ONE wants to endorse Sanders.

There's a reason his own damn PEERS aren't rallying around him and lifting him up. It's because he doesn't get along with THEM either. I think he means well, but if he can't bring Congress along as a CANDIDATE, he's not going to bring them along as a POTUS.

And it's all moot anyway, because he has no path to the nomination. None. He can flail and wail and point and yell, but he will not win this contest. It's all over but the rest of the firings...and speaking of those, what an UGLY thing to do!

Maybe if he hadn't run off to Rome he could have afforded to pay them through June instead of giving them ten days notice through Jeff Weaver by phone. Damn, that's how a CAPITALIST, not a socialist, fires people--get the lackey to do it, don't talk to the workers, sure as hell don't look 'em in the eye. That's some cold shit, if you ask me.

See, he talks the talk--but when it came to walking the walk, he turned his back and didn't do right by those people.

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Response to MADem (Reply #256)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:20 AM

265. So you were for Clinton then? Or Obama?

I wonder if it isn't the same. It's been a while and you say it was really bad in 08. Yet Obama always had a kinder rhetoric and gave people hope that Hillary just can't seem to muster. Very possibly then and now aren't that different. He turned out to be very Hillary-like and they are both centrist-right candidates now. I don't think anybody believes Bernie would move to center. I'm laughing. That could not happen. He only wanted to move Hillary left when he started but the campaign turned into a flood of desire for him. Too bad they either didn't vote or couldn't vote.

You know, his leadership skills have been tested more than Hillary's. Mayor, House Rep who was acknowleged to be king of amendments and then senator. He knows the ropes. In fact, that was one of Obama's problems. I determined never again to vote for a one term anything. He didn't have the experience. I'm hoping Hillary does. She hasn't done much politically either. Nothing like Bernie. He's fostered relationships, he's administered a town from the top, he knows how to hire, enforce regulations, get things done. I know your side poo-poos it at every opportunity, but truth is he's way more qualified to be in charge. He's had the ultimate responsibility.

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #265)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:05 AM

291. Clinton--but I Got Over It.

I was not happy that she didn't take it all the way, and I thought Obama had less experience than she did. But he was a very smart guy--he picked "avuncular Joe" who everyone purports to love but couldn't get out of single digits when he ran--TWICE--for the Presidency--as his VP. Joe isn't taken all that seriously by the public, because he runs his mouth some times, but that guy is wired in DEEP to the legislature. He knows how to vote count, he knows how to whip-em-good, and he knows where the bodies are buried. So that was a fine pick. And first chair in the Cabinet, the most senior cabinet position ahead of Defense and everyone elsle? SECSTATE wasn't a bad consolation prize for HRC. It all worked out. And Barack and Michelle? They grow on ya--and those two cute kids, and the dogs--hey, what's not to love?

But then, HRC did not waste any time. Once she shut it down, she IMMEDIATELY pivoted and frigging harangued her supporters to support Obama. So we went, sullenly some of us, to the polls, and pulled the lever. Because Obama was better than Romney, and Obama worked his ass off, too. He was gonna make us love him--and he did.

Then came 2012 and Obama's in hot water--he looks like his mojo is lost. Who steps in to bail his ass out and lift him up? Why, The Secretary of Explaining Stuff--Bill Clinton, say what you want about him, saved Obama's ass, re-energized a moribund campaign, and dragged his ass over the finish line. I know Obama knows this and won't forget, because that's how it goes. HRC has been EXCEEDINGLY loyal to Obama, too--everytime she goes Off The Ranch she warns him well ahead of time, so he can be smooth when he's asked. She's not going to blindside him. He's going to HELP her, because he sees her as his logical successor.

I don't mean to be rude, but Mayor of Burlington VT is like being Mayor of Mayberry. It's a "city" because there are no people in VT, but anywhere else it would be called a medium sized TOWN. ANYONE could "lead" there--obviously--that was Bernie's first steady paycheck in a long, long time.

TODAY, there are 40K people there. In the ENTIRE town of Burlington. More than that WORKED at the Dept of State (Close to twice as many, and DS also has responsibility for their FAMILIES as well). DS has over a hundred facilities IN THE US and embassies and consulates and "interest sections" in nearly every single country save North Korea (we have an interest section in Iran, in the Swiss Embassy, I think - and we just re-opened our joint in Cuba) all over the world. It's a joke that you would even compare the level of responsibility of a SECSTATE and a frigging Mayor of a sleepy little city-town--there is NO comparison. Ultimate responsibility? The damn entire budget of that town was probably less than the "Janitorial Services" line item in the State budget. Come on--that turd don't float.

And that Amendment King nonsense? That's spin. He sat on his ass and did very little save collect a paycheck and make the occasional hot-breathed floor speech to an empty room as it got close to election day. He was an INEFFECTUAL legislator. He is an INEFFECTUAL Senator and his (cough) leadership of the VA Committee he chaired was nothing short of disgraceful--I hate to agree with the Republicans about anything, but the House Committee had dozens of hearings about the shit going down in VA hospitals, and Bernie could barely bring himself to show up for seven on the Senate side. The mess over there is partly his fault because he failed in his DUTY of oversight. And when he finally started overseeing, he was so "concerned" about the rights of the senior executives over there that he inserted language in the legislation (that, to our embarrassment, the GOP is having to correct) that made it difficult to impossible to fire even the most fucked up screw ups in the senior civilian ranks over there--and he did this at the expense of the rank and file, who often took the hits unfairly for the big wigs.

If he made it to the general election (and he won't) that would have been a full frontal assault by the other side--and they would have had a point.

As for "fostering relationships?" Why can't he get any of his his PEERS TO ENDORSE HIM? They KNOW him, you see--they have had long "relationships" with him -- and that's why they've said "Hell NO."

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Response to MADem (Reply #291)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:23 PM

396. you make great points in both posts, MADem!

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #396)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:48 PM

400. Thanks!

I'm old, I'll be dead soon enough...but I really don't want the next generations to have to refight The Civil Rights Act or Roe v. Wade. I know HRC will preserve those rights for future generations. It matters!

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Response to MADem (Reply #291)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:14 PM

403. Did you seriously

 

Just claim that Bill Clinton "saved" Obama in 2012?

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #403)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:38 PM

407. Obama admits it. Did you "seriously" take a "news vacation" during that period of time?



Here--let me google that for you:

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2012/09/12/160995401/bill-clinton-obamas-new-secretary-of-explaining-stuff-takes-show-on-road


Bill Clinton, Obama's New 'Secretary Of Explaining Stuff,' Takes Show On Road

President Obama has joked that he should appoint former President Bill Clinton to a new post: "Secretary of Explaining Stuff." That's basically the role Clinton played at the Democratic National Convention in telling Americans why — in his view — they should give Obama another four years in office.

Now Clinton is on the campaign trail in the key battleground state of Florida. He's in Orlando today after stumping for Obama in Miami on Tuesday. NPR's Greg Allen reports that in the speech Tuesday, Clinton told the Miami crowd that the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks should remind Americans that part of being a good citizen means exercising the right to vote.

It's a big issue for Democrats this year, who are facing diminished enthusiasm around Obama compared with four years ago. There also are new voter ID laws and other laws affecting voters in several states, Florida among them, which Democrats have largely opposed. Some of the new laws are embroiled in court battles.

"When people try to discourage you from voting, which is happening in a lot of these voter changes all over America, it should redouble your determination to vote," Clinton told the crowd.

During the rally at Florida International University, Obama workers combed through the crowd, working to register voters and sign up volunteers to help with canvassing and phone banks.

Saturday in St. Petersburg, Fla., Obama explained the new Clinton nickname: "After he spoke, somebody sent out a tweet that said, 'You should appoint him Secretary of Explaining Stuff,' " said Obama. "I like that!'"




Obama LOVED BC's primetime speech at the convention--BC took it "on the road" on behalf of the Obama campaign after that.

Further, BHO mentioned it repeatedly when he was out on the hustings.

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla — Since leaving Charlotte, President Obama has mentioned Bill Clinton’s blockbuster speech in each of this three campaign stops.
In fact, invoking Clinton’s primetime address has given him one of the best lines of his stump speech.
Yesterday in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Obama said that he received a suggestion that Bill Clinton should be named “secretary of explaining stuff.” He said the same thing in Iowa City later in the day, getting laughs every time.
This morning in St. Petersburg, however, Obama jokingly admitted that he’d censored the recommendation. The original suggestion included much more colorful language, likely of the four letter variety.
“Although, I have to admit, it didn’t really say ‘stuff’,” Obama told a crowd of 11,000 in Florida. “I cleaned that up a little bit.”

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Response to MADem (Reply #407)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:36 PM

450. I remember

 

the story, what I don't remember is anyone taking a cute Obama quip and turning it into the Clintons "rescuing" a man who was twice their equal and then some.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #450)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:27 AM

480. It's right in every article written about it.

His campaign was moribund and lacking enthusiasm. Clinton re-energized it.

Don't hate Obama for being politically astute enough to recognize what Clinton did for him.

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Response to MADem (Reply #480)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:31 PM

483. Don't patronize

 

Obama supporters by claiming that Bill's good ol' Arkansas back-slappin is what gave Obama the victory.

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Response to Uponthegears (Reply #483)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:42 PM

484. I am an "Obama supporter" and I paid close attention to that race.

Clinton's convention speech goosed the campaign back into life, and Clinton's work on the campaign trail following the convention re-energized Obama's campaign. That's just fact. Sorry it troubles you so.

OBAMA acknowledges this, so I think it's awfully amusing that you call it "patronizing" when the guy who benefited from Clinton's help was so open in admitting it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/us/politics/bill-clinton-presses-on-in-campaign-for-barack-obama.html

Whoever wins Tuesday, the 2012 campaign has solidified (or restored) Mr. Clinton’s status as the hardest-working man in a game he loves and plays like no one else. “The master, Bill Clinton,” Mr. Obama called him on Saturday, hailing his predecessor as “a great president and a great friend.”

Unsaid, at least here, is that Mr. Clinton has also been a salvation to Mr. Obama. He gave what was widely considered the best speech at the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, N.C., rocking a strong endorsement of the president while arguably conveying the re-election rationale better than Mr. Obama or his campaign has.

“He has been our economic validator,” Jim Messina, Mr. Obama’s campaign manager, said of Mr. Clinton.

Likewise, Mr. Clinton’s presidency exemplifies what Mr. Obama is trying to make a case for. In the early 1990s, President Clinton also inherited a lagging economy, and then he led economic prosperity in his second term. Mr. Obama, who wrapped his former rival in a full-on hug onstage in Charlotte (their recent joint appearances have featured more cursory bro-hugs), said he should name Mr. Clinton to a new position known as Secretary for Explaining Stuff.

Out of public view, the former president has been equally tireless. In a 20-minute car ride Saturday after a rally in Chesapeake, Va., to the Norfolk airport, Mr. Clinton recorded 40 “robo-calls” for Democratic Congressional candidates across the country. In addition to headlining 37 rallies for Mr. Obama over the last seven weeks of the campaign (including events scheduled through Monday), Mr. Clinton is serving as a back-channel strategist for the re-election enterprise.

On the morning after the third debate between Mr. Obama and Mitt Romney on Oct. 22 in Boca Raton, Fla., Mr. Clinton met Mr. Messina for an impromptu breakfast meeting in a suite at a Hyatt Regency hotel in Chicago. Red-eyed after arriving from Boca Raton at 3:30 a.m. and subsisting on Coke Zero, Mr. Messina received, he said, a simple directive from former president, who was in Chicago to give a speech: I am yours in the final weeks. Mr. Clinton said he would undertake a heavy regimen in battleground states.

Previously, Mr. Clinton had served as an active behind-the-scenes strategist, speaking regularly to the president, Mr. Messina and David Axelrod, the senior strategist. He made suggestions on what themes the campaign should emphasize and where. He advocated, according to top officials, for Mr. Obama to run advertisements in Florida that portrayed Mr. Romney as a threat to Medicare and Medicaid — something the campaign ultimately did. As he stumped across the state Friday, Mr. Clinton also drove home that portrayal.....


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Response to MADem (Reply #484)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 04:03 PM

495. First

 

You only became an Obama supporter when your queen (and king) were beat down on the 2008 primary streets.

Second, YOUR idea that Obama needed the help of a white neoliberal like Clinton to win in 2012 is disturbing.

The Clinton arrogance is astounding.

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Response to MADem (Reply #256)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:26 AM

344. You are spot on, MADem!

Wish that I could rec this post.

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Response to brer cat (Reply #344)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:52 PM

401. Thanks, it's appreciated nonetheless! nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #93)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:49 AM

250. Whatever you say.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:29 PM

17. Skinner changed the five hides rule because it was clear that Sanders supporters

 

were abusing the alert system to turn DU into a Sanders echo chamber.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:34 PM

23. I have seen lots of abuse on DU that skinner never seemed to care about

 

until it became apparent that team H was in the minority and populated by a number of vocal individuals that didn't know when to stop.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #23)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:37 PM

95. I like the five hide rule

the sooner it's back the better.

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Response to sharp_stick (Reply #95)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:59 AM

311. Once GDP closes, it will be.

I admit not participating much in this primary on DU once it got heated. It, and DK, seemed to be very pro-Sanders, I was happy with either choice (even though I did make my decision in January). I voted, went to the local Hillary Super Tuesday watch party, was happy, then figured most of my part was over. I did some phonebanking in February and March, but didn't say much on DU.

Then, I had ankle surgery on March 15th, and have been recovering these last six weeks. So haven't been active until I actually felt better.

I admire the people who fight fiercely for the candidates they believe in. I feel badly for people who had disappointments -- truthfully, reading DU and DK in January, I thought it was going to be Hillary supporters in this position, again, like in 2008, and just hoped we would behave better this time and there not be significant PUMAs.

Seeing it the other way isn't creating shadenfreude ... no, quite the opposite. I really feel badly for people who wanted Sanders and believed in his vision. I just can't see the math for him now.

That doesn't mean he should shut up and go away, nor should his supporters... he, and they, can still work to influence the ticket and platform. But the people calling and harassing Superdelegates, for example, is not the way.

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Response to moriah (Reply #311)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:37 PM

492. I gotta say - I love your posts.

 

You remind me of what DU used to be like.

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Response to vintx (Reply #492)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:58 PM

512. I really try. And if I can't...

... I exercise my option not to see posts from users that would drive me to incivility. (I have always been one to purge my Ignore list regularly, because people deserve second chances, but I would rather just let people who post things that push my buttons too hard have their DU and their free speech rather than argue with them or suppress it.)

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Response to moriah (Reply #311)

Sun May 1, 2016, 12:17 AM

513. Thank you for actually understanding.

At least you can try to understand where we're coming from.

I must be honest and this is not in regards to you but if I hear from someone who voted for Hillary in the primary this time then complain down the road about not having a more ideologically pure candidate in the next primary for the general...well, I will scream at them, literally scream at them and be tempted to throw something at said person.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #23)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:35 AM

354. +1

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:39 AM

456. Too bad

They in the minority of Democratic Party voters.

Passion can only carry you so far and the whole hate of the Establishment thing is just funny. The Bernie supporters, of which I kind of count myself, want to become the new Establishment. Establishment is just another word for winner.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #456)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:57 AM

465. The present establishment is beholden to the same $$$

 

that the GOP is beholden to.

That needs to change or we are all screwed.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:41 AM

459. I don't think he's indifferent

 

The reason I say is, there's a prominent, highly disruptive Hillary supporter who has been "flagged for review" for going on a month.

Flagged for review seems to be the equivalent of "At their majesties pleasure". I was flagged (two hides in a day) and nipped for a week. But keeping someone sidelined for a month?

They're basically just overriding the jury system and overtly modding.

Which is fine. Skinner seems pretty even-handed about it so far.

But, yeah, letting the asylum loose was a fairly bad idea. GDP plunged immediately and hasn't recovered. But, they are watching at least.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:48 PM

502. That's what I've seen since then...

Doesn't matter, but I just pointed out to someone in my last thread where I was one of the jurors who voted to hide something that I could have easily rigged. I'm not inclined to rig ANY jury... Yet, here's one of those threads that are SO focused on Sanders supporters ruining it, when the reality of the Democratic party RIGHT along with all of those who turned away from it to become Independents have carried Bernie in every state.

When they don't like who the majority becomes, they change the playbook. Skinner really has not proven he is running a democratically driven discussion board, and we're supposed to stand up and take this?

The Hell I am...

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #502)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:27 PM

509. The last jury that I was one I decided to decline.

 


Frankly I am tired of this shit.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:09 PM

58. Well, if the primaries are really over, no reason to not turn the timeouts back on.

Seems fair. Then we can all support the nominee, and the people who have run up a whole huge list of hides can have some time to do other stuff, like phonebank, or ponder how they can be more unifying.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #58)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:21 PM

73. Excellent!

Fair for both sides.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #58)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:29 PM

80. Yep

 

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #58)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:32 AM

329. I'm guessing the 5 hide won't be turned back on until the primary is declared over which Skinner

said will not be until either someone drops out or the last vote is cast. Since end of the primary is connected to the new jury process I bet that all hides will be wiped out so people can start fresh.

Just like people who were banned from jury duty were allowed to start fresh when Skinner gave amnesty to all those on timeout.

I think the Admins usually lean towards being less rather than more punitive.

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Response to seaglass (Reply #329)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:05 AM

339. Maybe.

But it'd be funny to see the people who took the removal of the time out function as a green light to spread some of the most toxic garbage I've EVER seen on this board, all over it like creamed carrots on a baby's high chair, to have to face some unexpected consequences for the crap they threw down.

Yeah, that would be worth it.


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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #339)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:35 AM

346. Can't say I disagree. n/t

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #58)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:36 AM

355. I'd rather see the DU'ers who were abusing the jury system get more time to reflect.

 

Except it seems they are incapable of doing that.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #355)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:40 PM

398. Take a pleasant stroll around some of the transparency pages in question

I think if you're objective you'll come to the conclusion that some of the hides were bogus, but a metric fuckton of them were not.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #355)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:11 PM

434. Yeah, those Clinton Cavers can't do that, you are right.

They, after all, are the ones who posted about having "our juries" on DU. They were the ones who posted about alert stalking cali and boasting about prodding her into a hide. Funnily enough, they are the ones with the most vile OPs and the rudest posts, and therefore the most hides.

If only they would grow up and reflect. But as you stated, it seems they are incapable of doing that.

.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:42 PM

102. Yeah and posters who ran up another 10 or more hides

just since the start of the amnesty are just swell, even handed posters???

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Response to catnhatnh (Reply #102)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:05 PM

393. well, it seems it depends on their candidate of choice.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:50 PM

114. +10,000

And they just can't admit either, but we know the score.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:24 AM

225. Is that more Brock Dark Talk? Or are you just guessing? Either way, pretty lame.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:31 AM

328. Bwahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Worst fail ever!!

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:39 PM

29. +1

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:01 PM

50. Wow ... that's one unhinged rant.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #50)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:11 PM

59. No no no. "Unhinged" was January's talking point.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #59)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:20 PM

70. Sorry, but "unhinged" is a perpetual state for some Sanders supporters.

And the guy I responded to ... perfect example.

Pick a month ... unhinged.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #70)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:24 PM

143. well I guess you told me!

I was wrong, it was February.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110759836

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:54 PM

117. Or he recognize the flaws in his jury system ...

... since people get hidden for the most trivial things around here, usually if it's something supporting Hillary.

You're just upset because, while you can still game the system, it's never permanent ... unless it's WillyH of course.

The independents weren't disenfranchised. They are the same independents that should have been supporting an independent candidate. If Bernie hadn't tried to pretend he was a Democrat to ride on the coattails of the party, he wouldn't be in this mess.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #117)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:54 AM

253. It's funny that he only "sees the light"

 

after team Hillary, with their noxious posts, wind up on the diwn and out.

When that happened the scales fell from his eyes...

Cur heavenly music.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #253)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:30 AM

273. Wow.

Bernie people love to drag out religious symbolism. I think that's the part I'll miss the least when he scuttles back into obscurity.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #273)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:08 AM

325. Wow, Hilly people love to clutch at pearls inasmuch as it diverts drom the discussion.

 

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #117)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:28 AM

270. You seem obsessed with WillyT

Who was banned from here around the same day you joined. Strange.

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Response to PaulaFarrell (Reply #270)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:33 AM

274. hahahahahahahahahahah!

So, I've been a loser, slow, sock puppet, paid Brock troll, and, what, now I'm WillyH?

I'm not obsessed with him. I simply find him a rather relevant example of how far Trump has moved the meter of the kind of racism acceptable in today's political discourse.

But thank you for the laughs. This place never ceases to be amusing. I do sometimes wish it would become more entertaining though. There is a difference, you see. Entertainment is a trip to Disneyland. Amusement is the carnival that comes to the local downtown parking lot.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #274)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:11 AM

297. No, you're just obsessed

Almost like personal animosity. One would think you had had personal interactions with him, but that wouldn't be possible as you only joined arond the time he left. Strange.

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Response to PaulaFarrell (Reply #297)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:15 AM

301. You got me.

I am the love child of WillyH and Cher.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:17 AM

222. You nailed it. So many people have given up voting. Independents make up the biggest group now.

Sorry, I don't understand why people even argue that point. Bernie said today in Oregon that 80% young didn't vote. I think if I heard right that 80% minorities didn't vote. Our campaigns are too long, too opaque, too much money, and too little substance. It is all about David Brock and his tactics regardless of which side he's on. Why should anybody fall for the notion it is better not to talk about politics? Politics decide our democracy. We need to talk more politics and get engaged. But it will not happen as long as we have two exclusive clubs limiting who can vote in this country.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:26 AM

351. the reason he has us "freed from time outs" is because that tiny minority is over represented here

 

on DU.

In a somewhat similar way that obnoxious bro behavior is prevalent among online gaming communities.

The internet is a powerful lure to bullies who can use anonymity to get away with bullying.


And it's interesting that you tacitly admit to the extent Sanders supporters abused the jury system to censor other DU'ers.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #351)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:40 AM

356. ...

 



the reaso n he has us "freed from time outs" is because that tiny minority is over represented here


Okay, that must be it.

The internet is a powerful lure to bullies who can use anonymity to get away with bullying.


And once released from their well-deserved time outs...IMHO...the camp weathervane disruptirs went to work to get even more hides.


And it's interesting that you tacitly admit to the extent Sanders supporters abused the jury system to censor other DU'ers.


I never said any such thing. I mentioned that team Hillary was losing...as in they were acting like aholes and meriting
hides for it.

But please, so your best to get any exercise you can by jumping to conclusions.



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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:51 PM

39. I hope you are right!

It is hard to see that on the horizon just yet.

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Response to pandr32 (Reply #39)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:53 PM

42. You'll probably have to look in other

places than here for a while.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #42)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:32 PM

87. For a while

...but hopefully not for much longer!

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:15 PM

6. I would have to say that I am not surprised to see this from an owner admin.

 

But I guess that it begs the question that I have been meaning to ask.

Is what you have posted a preamble or rationalization to a forthcoming purge?

I noticed some tasty plumbs in the above...

Progressive>>>Castigate>>>Hillary>>>Obama>>>damn conservative

Conservatives>>>Committed Progressives>>> Hostile incredulity

Ugly truths about progressive "bros">>>sexist>>>anti-Clinton

Yes, I guess that there is two sides to every story, but this article just magnifies the salivating by certain types in certain groups of an impending purge.

If that were to come to pass I might imagine DU becoming a much smaller, much harder, more insular and conservative shade of its former self.

Of course I could be very wrong, but we all have seen progressive voices silenced: falling into a chasm between what is said and what is done.

But I digress. Interesting article.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:18 PM

8. There's no purge.

I don't know why people talk about a "purge."

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Response to cwydro (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:27 PM

15. Seemingly camp weathervane loves to talk about it.

 

Perhaps you should bring it up with them.

But since there have bern purges in the past...whose to say?

I'd imagine that the same charitable freedom of revoked posting privileges may not be bestowed on certain individuals...or whole groups once a descsion is made to look firward and not back.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:31 PM

19. I don't know who camp weathervane is, sorry.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:34 PM

24. If you say so.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:11 PM

60. One persons purge is another persons exodus. nt

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Response to cwydro (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:12 PM

61. That earned you an Ignore.

 

Disingenuousness is rather unpalatable...

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #61)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:17 PM

68. and smelling faintly of elderberries...

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:13 PM

130. It is not a purge.

It is enforcing the rules that request posters not to disparage the democratic nominee once we have a presumptive nominee. This won't happen until after the final states vote on June 7th.

At that point, the rules simply as that all posters refrain from disparaging the democrat who came out ahead until the general election is over.

There are many forums on DU. There are many reasons to post on DU other than the democratic nominee. If you cannot exercise an adult level of control and not bash whoever the nominee is, and that goes for either side, then you will likely have posts deleted and if that doesn't work, you will eventually be told to leave. It won't be a purge. It will be a request for common decency and to get along as we work to put a democrat in the White House.

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Response to musicblind (Reply #130)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:03 AM

262. There's lots of Hillbots on DU salivating for it to happen.

 

Call it a ham sandwhich if you want if it gives you comfort, but it will still amount to the same thing.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:55 AM

361. You will of course, point us towards the relevant posts, yes?

"Seemingly camp weathervane (sic) loves to talk about it. Perhaps you should bring it up with them..."

You will of course, point us towards the relevant posts illustrative of a collective sentiment in regards to this so-called purge you allege, yes?

Or (and I find this more likely), your response will be anything other than relevant.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:21 AM

377. It allows them victim status.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:20 PM

10. There won't be a purge.

People will simply have to dial back the right-wing bullshit they're promoting.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:36 PM

26. Will not declaring personality cult level support of the center-right

 


be considered right-wing bullshit?

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #26)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:51 PM

40. Its not an impending "purge" ....it's a personal self administered Enema by those wilfully violating

TOS they signed on joining.

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Response to pkdu (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:37 AM

241. However ya wanna spin it if ut majes you mite comfortable with the outcome.

 

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Response to Codeine (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 06:56 AM

324. When the hell are the corporate loving conservatives going to start doing that?

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Response to Codeine (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:39 AM

330. People will also have to quit posting the truth about Hillary.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:23 PM

12. There was a TOS when you signed up.

If you can't follow the TOS, why do you think you should be here?

You don't have to support Clinton. You just have to follow the rules.

IMO, Skinner has been damned generous so far.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:29 PM

16. Ah, but the admins seem to jiggle that TOS

 

when it pleases them to; as one might imagine without too much difficulty.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:01 PM

48. Then take it up with Skinner in ATA

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:03 PM

52. DU is a forum, not a jail ... you can leave any time you want.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #52)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:27 PM

77. classic Spiro Agnew mantra: "love it or leave it..."

oh wait...he wasn't a Democrat, was he?

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Response to islandmkl (Reply #77)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:30 PM

84. Except DU is an internet forum, not a country.

If you are going to make a historical reference ... at least TRY to make it relevant.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #84)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:04 PM

380. you seem a little obtuse...

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #52)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:14 PM

132. Really--and there is that lovely "Discussionist" with no pesky "Support Democrats" TOS.

But the Bernie Brigade has to duel with the likes of the Trumpeters and the Cruz Missiles over that way--those guys aren't polite like Team Hillary--they'll tell those who are full of their own smarmy sanctimony right where to stuff it.

They like to bully--but they don't like being bullied so much. They could really have a good old Hammer and Tongs time over at Discussionist--but they might be bested by some of those wingnuts...or they might find they have more in common with them (see the bit about misogyny, above, in the OP) than they are willing to admit over on this side of the Internet fence.

Thing is, though, those wingnuts will never love Bernie...so that's where the fights would break out. If they had the guts to migrate over there (and, like I said, it would take guts because those guys aren't polite at all), it would probably be a good spectacle to read every so often! Kind of like a Gallagher Show--fun every once in a while. But messy...very messy! Sloppy! Wear old clothes if you're gonna sit in the front row!

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Response to MADem (Reply #132)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:22 PM

139. There are a lot of people from here who post at Discussionist.



I enjoy reading there ........ often there is more real news and many times even better discussions. Most of the conservatives there don't seem to have that much of a problem with Sanders, from what I've read.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #139)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:54 PM

205. Not surprising that the right wing wouldn't mind Sanders.

Once his backstory went on blast to the nation, he's easy to beat.

Middle America doesn't know a lot about him, because the Democrats supporting Clinton have been too polite to say much about it.

The right wing wouldn't hold back. But only if he won. Not before.

Now, why bother?

Use him as a wedge.

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Response to MADem (Reply #205)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:55 PM

206. Sanders is right wing now? nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #206)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:00 AM

211. No. I said "the right wing wouldn't MIND him" because he's easy to beat.

All those pervy writings, all those photos of him with "commies," all that crazy "medical advice" -- he's like manna from heaven.

But now, that he's not going to win, they'll just have to use him as a wedge. Tell angry supporters that Trump understands them and they should vote for him.

LOL! Plenty believe they're sincere.

DUHHHHH--Make America Great AGAIN!! Mexicans Build That Wall!

What a guy--right up the angry and vengeful Sanders supporter's alley...?

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Response to MADem (Reply #211)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:01 AM

213. lol. yeah ........ ok.

Last edited Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:18 AM - Edit history (2)



And no, you didn't say anything but "Not surprising that the right wing wouldn't mind Sanders. nt."



You edited to add the rest after I replied.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #213)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:41 AM

307. It's not my fault that you jumped in while I was editing--there was almost no time between the

original post and the edit--go back and check.

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Response to MADem (Reply #307)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 04:34 PM

418. lmfao. nt.

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Response to MADem (Reply #205)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:15 AM

237. Your silence and now your comments are all about denigration of Bernie. Why?

Clintonites are hardly polite. Middle America is learning about him fast. And it isn't middle america but minorities and poor people. You are someone that keeps the anger going. It's a form of passive-aggressive behavior.

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #237)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:00 AM

337. Motives are transparent thanks to the glorious amnesty rules!!!

 

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #337)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:50 PM

409. I am very PROUD of my transparency page--thanks for linking so I didn't have to.

It's clear that I got "bro'd" on more than one occasion, and an honest perusal of those threads proves it.



You seriously think pointing out your team's bullying makes it all look better?

LOL!

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Response to MADem (Reply #409)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:54 PM

445. wow you did get screwed on pretty much all of those hides

I admit I earned some of mine, I think some of mine were bullshit. You had one, maybe two, that were earned in that bunch.

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Response to MADem (Reply #409)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:32 PM

490. It doesn't show bullying. It shows the bully.

 

That's why they get hides.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #490)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:48 PM

494. Yes, the ones who hide innocuous comments.

They don't get them, they give them.

That will end soon. Can't wait until Bernie finishes shutting his campaign down and we can pivot to the general.

Then maybe you'll stop following me around, talking about me.

Some music for you:

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Response to MADem (Reply #494)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 05:03 PM

496. Poor you. I guess that you believe that responding to you

 

Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 06:19 PM - Edit history (1)

is following you around. Why don't you just claim stalking instead?



On edit: I will be happy as well once you come back from your copious amount of hits and redume the more centrist incremental you...or do you still want ti be called "meeeeee?"

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #237)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:48 PM

408. "Denigration of Bernie?" Please. He is a POLITICIAN.

He is a PUBLIC FIGURE. He is not a saint, and he is not immune to well-deserved criticism.

I don't find him as impressive as you do-- but that doesn't give you--or anyone here--license to attack me personally.

Yet you do--you just can't help making this shit about ME.

I'm not talkng about YOU "keeping the anger going." (PRO TIP--this is a political DISCUSSION board, not a CHEERLEADING SQUAD--it is a place where DIFFERENCES are discussed--you want RAH RAH? Head to the protected groups). I am not calling YOU "passive aggressive" -- yet you, and your peers, just can't RESIST telling me what you believe I think and feel, and giving me a little psychoanalysis, all because I have committed the crime of the century of not engaging in an overt display of lips-to-gluteus maximus re: Senator Sanders.

You routinely engage in insult--you just did it in your post above.

snowy owl
237. Your silence and now your comments are all about denigration of Bernie. Why?
View profile
Clintonites are hardly polite. Middle America is learning about him fast. And it isn't middle america but minorities and poor people. You are someone that keeps the anger going. It's a form of passive-aggressive behavior.


The proof is in the damn pudding. Anyone can read these posts and see what's what. I talk issues--you and your buddies talk about ME.

Over, and over, and over again.

It's all you got.

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Response to MADem (Reply #205)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:40 AM

243. Yeah, too polite. Keep repeating that to yourself.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #243)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 04:21 PM

416. There's a lot of stuff out there about the guy that hasn't been discussed here.

I'm not going to bring it up, but you can find it if you look. 7DAYS have covered a lot of it, so has VT DIGGER, if you're interested.

It doesn't cover him with glory, but it just doesn't matter, because he is not going to be the nominee.

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Response to MADem (Reply #416)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 04:33 PM

417. I can smell that cowpie that you dropped from here.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #417)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 06:38 PM

423. No, you'll have to go to VT Digger or 7Days for that.

I don't live in cow country but there are plenty up that way.

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Response to MADem (Reply #423)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:46 PM

429. Nope, what you dropped stinks to high heaven

 

Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:49 AM - Edit history (1)

You definitely seem to be a purveyor of bovine back end produce.

But I already knew that.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #429)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:23 PM

440. "Definately?" You sure? LOL!

R. Daneel Olivaw
429. Nope, what you dropped stinks to high heaven
View profile

You definately seem to be a purveyor of bovine back end produce.

But I already knew that.


I'm not sure what you "knew," but I'm not the one with the shovel, here.

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Response to MADem (Reply #440)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:54 AM

464. Oh, you. You don't use a shovel...IMHO.

 


Your art generally requires a dump truck.



TY for being the spelling police. At least you had some usefulness today.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #464)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:24 AM

479. There you go, talking about MEEE again. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #479)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:04 PM

481. If you like we could discuss your transparency page...

 


But, you know, I'm too polite.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #481)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:16 PM

482. Still talking about MEEEEE, are ya?

I'm proud of that page--it shows quite clearly how unfair the HIDE system is when the swarms are out!

Those swarms are the reason the admins changed the HIDE rules--you've only yourselves to blame!

Keep talking about meeeeee, if you must! It's not a party platform, but if it's all you've got....?

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Response to MADem (Reply #482)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:58 PM

485. Of course you would be proud of that page!

 



Disruptors always tend to gravitate to their own BS, and then play the victim with words like "swarm" to fool themselves into believing that what they do is justifiable.

They tend to use words like meeeee a lot.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #485)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:00 PM

487. If you would just stop talking about MEEEEEEE I wouldn't have to use the word.

But you keep talking about MEEEE, with a curious fixation.

Not sure why, but I imagine it's telling.

And as for disruptors, you need to look in your own mirror, there, sport! It looks like I'm not the only one you goad and bully in this fashion!

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Response to MADem (Reply #487)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:25 PM

489. Well, if you look at my transparancy page

 

what do you see?

You will not see meeeeeeeeee

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Response to MADem (Reply #205)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:52 PM

444. because the Democrats supporting Clinton have been too polite to say much about it.

OK, now you owe me a keyboard.

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Response to MADem (Reply #132)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:49 PM

443. those guys aren't polite like Team Hillary

You forgot the sarcasm tag.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:16 PM

64. Selective enforcement? nah, here? noway. nt

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:56 PM

120. silenced?

It's been Hillary supporters who have been silenced far more than anyone on the other side and it's literally via the jury system.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #120)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:28 PM

144. Says newbie of 5 weeks with 6 hides

 

Observed by Rider, 11 year member with 1 hide ever...



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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #144)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:30 PM

148. Yeah, and nearly all of them were bogus.

People are getting hidden on this site left and right if they support Hillary.

I also thought the jury system wasn't 11 years old. Maybe I misunderstood that point but I thought they used to have admins.

If you were running around calling every Bernie supporter an "enemy," I'm sure you'd have been hidden by now, but you've got the power of the majority on your side.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #148)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:40 PM

155. Poor oppressed minority

 



(Psst, there are many thousands of Hillary supporters here who don't have a single hide but please do keep playing the martyr role here. We can even see your hides...lol)

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #155)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:44 PM

160. Yeah, so can I.

And they're bogus.

One of them, the person I was responding to actually said she didn't think it was hide-worthy either.

Another one was VERY clearly playing along with the premise set by the person I was responding to.

The only hide I can sorta see being valid, even though it, too, was said in jest, I wish I could still say because now what I said in humor I actually believe.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #155)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:45 PM

161. And again,

The main reason any one of us is on here rather than a knitting social is because we want our ideas and candidates to win. Well, mine's winning. How's yours? Nuff said really, don't you think?

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #161)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:58 PM

208. Well, I went through the first three of your hides and only one of them seemed legit

But I have three hides, including one for gently (or so I thought) telling WillyT exactly what he was and another for responding in kind to a loud mouthed, know nothing with serious race and rage issues whose entire contribution to this site is starting shit with everyone on it to basically fuck off.

Those are two I don't mind having at all. I'd do it all again, actually.

But I can see why your post about Sanders and rape was hidden. That was kind of careless and needlessly provocative.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #120)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:45 AM

246. Strangely, it was skinner who wrote something to the effect

 


that the jury system worked, and that those who found themselves on the outside should change their tone...or something like that.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #246)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:40 AM

279. His big amnesty message a few weeks ago ...

... seemed to be pretty clear that the system needs an overhaul.

Either way, I think a creative use of the jury pool block is probably helping me a little.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:05 PM

124. I imagine Democrats and tolerant, like-minded people returning.

We have a serious election in November.

This place should be about that!

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #124)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:07 PM

171. Yes

With two horrific candidates. That will be fun...

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Response to ablamj (Reply #171)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:38 PM

194. I can tell...

you don't want to be my friend.

That's a shame.

It didn't have to be like this.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:04 PM

170. Have you tried forming your own political website? I say this in the kindest way possible...

You just seem so unhappy at how this one is run.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 05:15 PM

419. If Skinner starts purging people who dislike-to-despise HRC, he'd have to slash almost all of DU.

 

Then he'd have not much of a website left.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:15 PM

7. K & R


Good insights in that article.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:20 PM

9. Interesting. There was a similar article in the NYT Sunday.

This one was told from the Republican side.

It was about friendships being tested (and lost) during this particular primary. I can't remember who wrote it, but I know he was a part of the Bush administration.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:26 PM

13. I have friends and family who are/were Sanders supporters.

None of them have a problem voting for Hillary,they just preferred Bernie. This internet outrage is done by the very few and will be gone and forgotten in a couple of weeks.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:33 PM

21. Great post. Same here.

I've only seen this animosity here and read about various internet pockets of poutrage.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:37 PM

27. I guess that is the meme of the day.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #27)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:47 PM

32. It's no meme for me.

I just don't put all my self-worth into my candidate winning or losing. Neither do my friends.

I was very disappointed as a Hillary supporter in 2008, but I sure didn't get all wild-eyed and angry about it. I even have FB friends who are probably tea-partiers from what I see them post, but I know them in real life as good friends. We simply don't discuss politics.

Life is too short.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:13 PM

63. So true.

What the Bernie folks here (and on other political websites) never take into consideration is that not every BS supporter is a rabid, BoB, I'll NEVER vote for Hillary!, fanatic.

Most BS supporters in real life looked at the two candidates, preferred Bernie to HRC, and voted accordingly. They do not see themselves as part a "Revolution", nor do they see HRC and BS being that far apart on important issues. They will vote for HRC in November - just as the vast majority of HRCers would have voted for Bernie had he won the nomination.

The Bernie = Everything Good, HRC = Everything Bad bullshit is just that - bullshit. And it is, for the most part, confined to political discussion boards.

I have many FB friends who are staunch BS supporters - and I've never seen a single one of them post anything anti-HRC. They post nothing but pro-Bernie articles, statements, etc. But then, most of them don't post on DU or other political sites, which leads me to believe they've never been caught-up in the vitriol that is common among BS supporters on sites like DU.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #63)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:27 PM

397. Yea, I agree. The article is bullshit... not real life.

I wonder why Skinner is pushing the meme

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:59 PM

121. That's pretty much my experience ...

... with few exceptions and those are the typical online crazies you find here.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:17 PM

134. Same here.

Heck, I voted for Bernie and I have no problem voting for Hillary. Outside of DU, I would struggle to name Bernie supporters who legitimately hate Clinton.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:37 PM

152. Yes, no issues like that with my family either

Most were like "I never thought he would win anyway". However, one posts some pretty hot stuff on FB, but is quiet as a mouse or backs down when confronted in real life.

I think that one person is the somewhat typical of the internet warrior who can't find a better way to express their frustration IRL.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:56 AM

336. Um yeah, my husband and son voted for Sanders in the primary. I have family members

who may even vote Trump (they are Republicans so I am assuming this - I hope they will sit out). If only everyone I cared about thought just like me the world would be perfect. Relationships are way more important to me than politics.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:52 AM

373. +1, the relative few are grinders though... they are very persistent

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 06:00 PM

421. Same here, including me.

The alternative is too horrific for words.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:31 PM

18. You know damn well that there are outsider elements here manipulating both sides.

A little more tightening of the rules here could have prevented the blood war at DU.

I have never had a cross word with any of the many Bernie supporter I know in real life here in Philadelphia.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 05:28 AM

315. truth

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:34 PM

22. I think those who argue the loudest

and most obnoxiously lose friends. Maybe they don't like themselves enough. Or maybe they have trouble seeing the value of both incrementalism and bold moves toward positive change. The more you extend kindness to yourself, the more it becomes your automatic response to others.

Thanks for the article.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:35 PM

25. This isn't just some regular primary. We are fighting for the soul of our party.

 

The Conservatives are selling the party to the Big Banks and Wall Street. People are literally dying from poverty and lack of adequate health care while some Democrats are dancing with Goldman-Sachs.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:46 PM

31. It's the gilded age all over again.

 

Last edited Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:57 AM - Edit history (1)

It only matters if the few and their chosen, children...friends...wives, get a seat at the table.

The can talk about great things and try to fool the majority that they do good things, but only in baby step incrementalism, while they spare no expense to go to war, give money to rouge states: killing the innocent in the process.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:12 PM

175. Guilded? Guilds are like unions. Gilded is covered in gold.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #175)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:56 AM

257. Thanks for the spell check.

 

I'm sure that you're werken it overtime.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #333)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:57 AM

363. I'd rationalize accuracy as something else too were my candidate of choice dependent on it.

I'd rationalize accuracy as something else too were my candidate of choice dependent on it.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #31)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:39 AM

242. Thanks Daniel & Rhett. I thought I'd stumbled into the HRC group.

All so sweet and nice. Politics don't matter. Our democracy matters to us, doesn't it. The poor and the immigrant. Children in poverty. A trillion dollars taken back from the rich could pay for a lot of education, mental health, infrastructure and support a lot of jobs. I guess in the end there are two different kinds of voters: those who really do like the status quo and are probably living quite comfortably in nice neighborhoods or even working from home. They don't have to see the squalor in which so many are now living. Then there's the rest of us. Who see it and feel it and care. We are the Bernie people and we are important and smart and compassionate. And when TPP has finally emptied the US of jobs, fracking has caused more earthquakes, climate change has caused more flooding, and the uber rich finally own it all, maybe our comfortable little friends will get engaged and wonder how it all came to be.

It takes passion to make change. I'm sure Bernie is feeling the same frustration and let down that we are. When Amy Goodman gets a show on MSM, it might change. But I'm not holding my breath for that. And our Hillary friends probably wouldn't watch anyway.

BTW, this is not an HRC bashing. I'm sort of bashing apathetic voters who still don't get it. We no longer have the highest standard of living, you all know. And it can get a lot worse. Thank you.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:49 PM

38. So it's this bad after eight years of a Dem president?

The ACA is useless? People dying from poverty and lack of adequate health care?

Is that what I'm reading?

Well, just wait if a Republican gets in then, because that ACA will be gone in a skinny minute.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #38)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:00 PM

46. The ACA is failing. Insurance companies are pulling out of the exchanges. Hello.

 

Millions still don't have coverage. And yes people are dying of poverty and lack of health care. Those living in their denial bubbles don't care, but we have 16,000,000 children living in poverty, more American infants die in the USofA before reaching age 1 than any other modern nation. 50,000,000 Americans living in poverty and 2,500,000 children are homeless.

And your rationalization is, "it could be worse with a Republicon." And it could be better if we elected progressives.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #46)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:27 PM

78. and our jobs are being shipped overseas or replaced by an H-1B visaholder. nt

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #46)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:39 PM

98. That's a lot of newly insured that you simply blow off as if it's nothing.





Across income groups, the greatest decline in the uninsured rate has been among lower-income Americans. Among those with an annual household income of $36,000 or less, the uninsured rate declined 8.8 points since the fourth quarter of 2013.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/188045/uninsured-rate-fourth-quarter-2015.aspx?g_source=CATEGORY_HEALTHCARE&g_medium=topic&g_campaign=tiles


Yep, that's a horrible failure.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #98)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:48 PM

162. Forced to buy it. But can they really afford what they have to pay?

 

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #98)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:25 PM

184. I am glad you are satisfied but I won't until all Americans are covered.

 

And you should really worry about the slight upturn at the end of your graph. It might not look like much but I think it means the insurance companies are bailing from the exchanges.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #184)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:28 PM

185. As expected, a straw man answer

and a "guess" based on looking for something negative in something positive, it's all too predictable. Be a little less glum once is a while!

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #185)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:37 PM

193. I work at a foodbank and with the homeless. I will show them your graph.

 

I said the ACA was failing and you show a graph that shows that it's starting to fail. The insurance companies are bailing. Millions are still not covered.

Pragmatism, the excuse to ignore those struggling around us.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #193)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:41 PM

197. I'm an optimist

You should try it sometime.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #197)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:49 PM

202. It's tough to be optimistic when you see things getting worse every day.

 

If Clinton wins it will be a huge setback. 50 million living in poverty and climbing.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #202)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:02 AM

214. "If Clinton wins" ?? -- I guess you'll be overjoyed with President Trump?

You're trying to trick me! I get it!

but seriously...


Must you play the 'woe is me/us!' card?

We all struggle every day. We do the best we can to keep a positive outlook.

Things will never be perfect, but we struggle to do the best we can to help those around us.

Politically we vote for the best person for the job who we hope can get something accomplished. We know that no president will eliminate poverty so long as one party is perfectly happy holding people down for political gain - and that party is NOT the Democratic party. I am cynical, but I am also an optimist and the latter is a better overall way to view the world than the former. YMMV, but I have hope.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #214)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:41 AM

358. But some here are working for the side that has put us where we are today.

 

I have asked why a number of times and the answer always comes back some version of "we want a strong, tough authoritarian leader that will kick ass and take names." They don't care if she kicks asses and fills our prisons or kicks the asses of the 99% by siding with deregulating Wall Street or sends our family members to die in wars. As long as she tells them what to do and how to think.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #202)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:45 AM

247. How can you keep trying? His answer, "I'm an optimist." That says it all & nothing at same time.

There's no there there. No understanding. No substance. He got the person he likes but he doesn't know why. Insurance is going up. It's been documented. And the poor middle class cannot afford it. Rates are very good for the very, very poor. But a guy earning $15 an hour, not so good. He's in a $30K a year range and he is bearing the brunt of obamacare. But "I'm an optimist" should make that lower middle class guy feel really, really good.

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #247)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:43 AM

359. Good point. I think it's Authoritarian Adulation. nm

 

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #247)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:39 AM

368. That's it, you nailed it!

I'm an empty vessel with no compassion for anybody but myself.

I vote based on some shallow lack of understanding of the world, my brain is just a place to put a hat on.


I apologize for caring and for wanting better for everybody.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #197)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:19 PM

448. It's hard to remain an optimist when our economy keeps sliding backwards

And the "presumptive nominmee" isn't really interested in fixing the problem with single payer. She just wants to tinker with ACA.

Get Ready for Huge Obamacare Premium Hikes in 2017

Amid rising drug and health care costs and roiling market dynamics, the spokesperson for the nation’s health insurers is predicting substantial increases next year in Obamacare premiums and related costs.

“I’ve been asked, what are the premiums going to look like?” she said. “I don’t know because it also varies by state, market, even within markets. But I think the overall trend is going to be higher than we saw previous years. That’s my big prediction.”


http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/04/21/Get-Ready-Huge-Obamacare-Premium-Hikes-2017

More Bad News for the Remaining Obamacare Co-ops

There are ominous new signs that what’s left of the star-crossed Obamacare co-op program may be headed for another financial crisis unless the eleven remaining health insurance programs can pick up the pace of enrollments.

A Government Accountability Office report released Thursday cautions that four of the 11 surviving non-profit cooperatives that were created as part of President Obama’s Affordable Care Act have recorded sub-par enrollment figures and could be in trouble, despite substantial federal start-up loans and grants.


http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/03/18/More-Bad-News-Remaining-Obamacare-Co-ops

And apparently Obama admin knew about this in 2012.


Nearly Half of Obamacare Co-Ops Are Closing

Nearly half of the 23 non-profit insurance plans created under Obamacare in 2011 at a cost of $2.4 billion have announced they will close by the end of the year.



Obamacare’s Dirty Secret: 31 Million Still Can’t Afford Treatment

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/05/20/Obamacare-s-Dirty-Secret-31-Million-Still-Can-t-Afford-Treatment

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #448)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:27 PM

449. I'm not buying it

Sorry I don't believe anybody on the internet

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #185)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:59 PM

209. I really think you do not understand the difference between covered and

accessible. There are millions who are now covered but still cannot afford the co-pays and deductibles. They flat out cannot afford to pay for their medication or doctor visits, let alone a hospital stay. That forced purchase of insurance that they cannot afford to use, is useless. They are paying for nothing. And yet, they are forced to pay.

A very close friend of mine works as a volunteer for an organization which tries to help people navigate around ACA, Medicaid, and Medi-Cal, and it is heartbreaking work. She is only able to help about 15%-20% of those seeking help. Prior to ACA, her numbers where higher because she could steer them to Medi-Cal (CA's enhanced version of Med-Caid) but now, with Federal ACA regs, there is a big donut hole.

For a lot of working poor, it is a clusterfuck.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #98)


Response to rhett o rick (Reply #46)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:33 PM

382. They act like the ACA was a magic wand

The ACA guarantees insurance coverage, but if you can't afford to see the DR, or the meds they may prescribe what's the point?
I know of plenty of people who have insurance but haven't seen a DR in years. Can't afford it.

Yes, the ACA was a good thing, but it's not the be all to end all. It should be the "incrementalism" they speak of towards universal healthcare.

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Response to Lazy Daisy (Reply #382)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:24 PM

387. And after an initial burst of hope I see it slowly collapsing.

 

We were told it was a first step. Bullcrap.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #46)

Mon May 2, 2016, 03:38 AM

518. No, it's succeeding. A single national insurance co dropped out that never was a major player anyway

And we would have millions more in coverage if the Supreme Court hadn't allowed governors to reject the Medicaid expansion.

Twenty million more Americans have coverage now. That's a huge achievement for President Obama and the Dems in Congress.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #38)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:05 PM

53. ACA has done jack shit in reducing healthcare costs

 

I have a family member paying $300 a month for a plan she will never be able use because it has a massive deductible.

Calling the ACA the "Affordable Care Act" is a sick joke. There is nothing affordable about it. We need single payer.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #53)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:32 PM

88. The ACA has also saved the life of my neice.

But hey, let's toss it out, and start over.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #88)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:48 AM

249. Was she on medicaid? ACA did help medicaid patients - the very, very poor.

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #249)

Mon May 2, 2016, 03:41 AM

520. Millions of people on the ACA have also benefited, including my son. n/t

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #53)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:12 PM

129. ACA

 

Was and is a huge huge gift to the insurance industry..In the last year alone I have seen bills for a few hours in the hospital of 40-50,000$ one over night stay went to over 60k so you bet they have not done a fucking thing about actually lowering health care costs they just gave the insurance industry a few hundred million or more so they would not be so mean

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Response to Old Codger (Reply #129)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:21 PM

180. Reminds me of the post we had about a friend going to the ER for a broken arm that cost mega-bucks.

After all the commiserating over the evil done was over, some of us who were of a more questioning mind teased out the info that it was a compound fracture requiring a lot of surgery and a hospital stay.

I may have forgotten some of the details. If so, I apologize. Bottom line: it was not a simple fracture, which is how it was originally framed.

I completely agree that we have a long way to go to fix this system. If you want the ACA repealed so we can start over, contact all those House Republicans who voted dozens of times to do just that. Brilliant move.

Also, reflect on the fact that Democrats/Progressives stayed home during the first midterm election after Obama was elected and allowed the GOP to take over the House and Senate. It is one of the wonders of the world that Obama got anything done at all, with the opposition he he has faced since Day One.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #180)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:25 AM

226. I thought we all concluded the ACA was a good start?

We got 90% coverage, we ended refusal of coverage, we ended denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, we got extensions of coverage for our school-aged kids to 26. We got subsidized premiums for lower income families and workers.

More people getting healthcare and treatment and medicines? What geniuses thought that would be cheaper? I guess the ones who believe NOW we can have free healthcare?

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #226)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:55 AM

255. Hey, I'm one of those silly people who LOVE that ACA got passed and signed in any form at all!

I was just kind of taking a poke at the person I was replying to, and others, who seemed to be following up on the notion that since ACA is not 100% perfect we should scrap it.

We have a sarcasm smiley -- maybe we need an irony smiley, too.

God, some of the stories I read while Obama was trying to get it thru Congress.... One that really haunts me was about the young woman who was a Type 1/ Juvenile Diabetic. Her health care was always covered under her parents' plan until she graduated college, then poof. It's a very expensive disease and one you cannot mess around with, and she could not find a job with sufficient medical coverage. So she tried to economize on her insulin. By not taking her bedtime dose. Godsdammit I am a mother myself and this literally makes me She fell into a coma and died.

The perfect is the enemy of the good. The ACA is not perfect, but it is a plenty good start.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #255)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 05:33 AM

316. Well

I was one of the ones who were saying in 2010, while the Democratic Party was lecturing us that a) the ACA was just the first step on the road to single-payer, b) that it would save Congress for the Democrats in the 2010 midterms, c) that once the ACA was in effect, and people were experiencing the clear benefits of it, public opinion would turn in favor of it to validate it, and d) that because of c), it would thereafter be politically suicidal for the Republican Party to try to repeal it, that the opposite of each point was true.

It was an ineptly constructed Republican health care plan from the 1990s, passed not by taking on the private health insurance industry (which is the problem itself) but by co-opting them in its writing. Having passed a Republican plan with no Republican votes, now the Democratic Party owns it lock, stock and barrel.

Here we are in 2016, and how did the points above work out?

a) The Democratic candidate the party is lined up behind and tried to clear the field for is holding up the ACA as the reason single-payer is impossible, and in making the case against it regurgitates Republican talking points (Eek! Taxes! Not going to mention the savings of the elimination of private health insurance costs!)
b) The Democrats had a historic slaughter in the 2010 midterms
c) The ACA has been underwater in public opinion since Day One because, having left the problem and cost of private health insurance unaddressed, people were not impressed, and
d) Since it is unpopular, the Republicans have tried to repeal it 60 times at no political consequence to them, because, as mentioned in c) it has been underwater in public opinion since Day One. Meanwhile, they have never tried to repeal single-payer Medicare because it's publicly supported and popular, and therefore there *would* be dire political consequences for that.

I'm not qualified to be a six-figure Democratic strategist, clearly. They've got it all figured out.

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Response to Kall (Reply #316)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 05:56 AM

320. Very good post.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #226)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:50 AM

467. So do I get your post as saying we should accept what we've got and shut up?

 

The ACA was a half assed attempt. It was to be a first step. Millions are still not covered mostly because they can't afford it. You may think that's swell but I am going to continue to fight tooth and nail until all are covered and insurance companies are out of primary coverage.

By the way, did you notice that rates are still climbing at about 30%? And insurance companies are backing out of the exchanges. This is not a good sign that the ACA is sustainable.

It's time for step two, Medicare for all or at least lower the age to 50.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #467)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:44 AM

469. Would that be by imperial fiat...

or just someone "special" ordering Congress to do his bidding?

I take it you weren't around when Obama had a Democratic majority and what we got was the ACA?

You keep dreaming.

We'll work at getting it done.



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Response to Hekate (Reply #180)

Mon May 2, 2016, 03:42 AM

521. +1. n/t

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Response to Old Codger (Reply #129)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:01 AM

212. You might want to check with insurance companies about it being a huge gift

United is pulling out of the public exchanges because they are on track to lose a billion dollars in 2 years. People who for years hadn't been able to see doctors came in, they were sicker than expected and so caused massive losses. This is actually public information. It's not that hard to find.

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Response to mythology (Reply #212)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:55 AM

254. Well, isn't that the point. It isn't working whether because people can't afford or other

It isn't working. I didn't see many conversations about the ACA here. Now we're having one? Bernie knows and he tried. Now, I guess it is up to the fates whether people will have it next year, two years from now or at all. And even if it is still around, who knows how much it will cost? The one good thing was getting rid of the ban on pre-existing conditions. If we can keep it. If United is pulling out, does that mean they can now go back to using pre-existing conditions as a reason to deny?

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Response to mythology (Reply #212)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 06:44 AM

323. That points out the basic flaw in the ACA -- Private health insurance is a bad business model

 

A successful health insurer doesn't make money by providing coverage. It makes money by collecting large payments from people who don't need it, and then denying actual services as much as possible.

By making insurers somewhat more accountable shines a glaring spotlight on that fact. "Gosh now we have to actually make payments for services for people who have policies, and we have to cover people who actually NEED health services" We can't afford to to that and make a profit."




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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #53)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:22 PM

140. The ACA provided health care to me, a person with severe medical conditions.

While I acknowledge that a lot of people's premiums went up, the ACA made my premiums affordable. I suffer from profound hearing loss, muscular tourettes, and a heart condition. I'm only 33 but I could barely afford anything due to my medical costs.

The ACA helped me greatly. It made some premiums go up so that others could go down.

I would prefer single payer and I hope we get that in my life time. But do not discount what the ACA has done. For every bad thing it did, there was a good thing on the other end.

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Response to musicblind (Reply #140)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:23 PM

183. Thank you for letting us know. I hope the increased access helps you a whole lot.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #53)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:58 AM

364. Anecdotal evidence is often the best a lazy mind can produce.

Anecdotal evidence is often the best a lazy mind can produce.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #53)

Mon May 2, 2016, 03:40 AM

519. Wrong. CBO numbers show it is slowing the rate of cost increases. We need to do more, but

we ALSO need to address the problem of rising costs in Medicare and Medicaid. The major thing that needs to be addressed immediately, for the ACA, Medicare, and Medicaid, is the rising cost of drugs.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #38)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:08 PM

56. Yes. It's still that bad for a lot of people!

No one is saying we've made no progress, but we need far, far more. It is not a personal attack on Obama to argue we aren't nearly there yet. Many people are still suffering and wealth inequality needs to be addressed in a real way.

Take the blinders off. We're far better off than we were 8 years ago, I like Obama and Hillary, but things are not ok in this country.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #38)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:51 AM

461. You have to understand what the ACA does

 

There are good things. People with pre-existing have insurance.

Then there are bad things.

I've a friend who was uninsured, had to get insured to manage the mandate. He now pays $300 a month for a bronze plan.

He can barely afford this.

And god help him if he needs care. There's a $6,000/$500 deductible.

Facts on the ground - he never goes to the doctor because he knows he's going to pay.

So, he's technically insured under the statistics. He now has insurance.

And he's still not getting care.

So I don't want to hear, "Well, look at all these insured people!"

Insured means shit.

Who's getting care?!

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:17 PM

67. +1.nt

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:49 PM

112. +1. The soul of the party is exactly right. Very few of the convos here are about who we like

better on particular issues (some, but not many), relative to the much larger issue of whether it is consistent with our core political values to have a candidate that does x,y,z. Then the firestorm starts about whether x,y,z actually happened, or that talking about x,y,z is fueling right wing talking points, or that we are blowing the significance of x,y,z out of proportion.

So those of us who feel that x,y,z is both real and fundamentally at odds with our deepest political/social values are screamed down. We aren't hearing our brothers and sisters on the other side acknowledging what we see as both reality and bone-crushingly important. We hear denial of its importance. That, to us, seems like a different political party altogether, not just a difference of opinion on the issues that we can reach agreement on.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #112)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:11 PM

174. Sadly when we say we are fighting for a fair break for the 99% we get ridiculed.

 

We get told that it's pragmatic to accept what we've fed by their masters.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:01 PM

122. They said all this in '08.

It's always the election that matters more than any other one.

Then it's over and we all go back to whining about Monsanto.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #122)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:09 PM

126. And you like that pattern?

You seem to be arguing against your candidate here.

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Response to Barack_America (Reply #126)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:11 PM

128. Not at all ...

... and I do think this is an important election, but I find it annoying when people go around like those guys in End-of-the-World sandwich boards strapped over themselves. Issues should not only exist every four years.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #122)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:20 PM

179. You've 800 posts and been here since march and you are telling us what's for?

 

The Conservative Wing of our party never have been critical of any major corporation, so I really doubt that "we" will be doing anything together.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #179)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:34 PM

189. I am actually critical of corporate involvement in politics.

But I also understand you gotta win.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #189)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:39 PM

195. You don't win if you have to sell your soul. Clinton wants to amass a huge fortune.

 

That's what your win is worth. Her an Bill will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Sorry but I aint messing with you guys. Full ignore.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #195)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:42 PM

198. Go right ahead.

For those reading (since the audience is all that matters in debate anyway), it is what it is. We've set up a system by which we rely on cash. I'm all for overruling Citizens United. Clooney got this ... yeah, we don't like it, but hey, we'll use it. The fact remains, she's holding the cards not them. They have absolutely no way to enforce that she vote as a result of their contributions.

Oh, and ignore is fun. It guarantees I always get the last word.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #198)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 01:32 AM

238. The lady doth protest too much, methinks. n/t

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Response to xocet (Reply #238)


Response to nolawarlock (Reply #240)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:12 AM

298. you realize the Felicia nonsense

Stopped being funny long before you heard about it right?

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #298)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:24 AM

303. :)

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #303)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 04:02 AM

312. Oh I guess you didn't

How awkward...

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #312)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 04:07 AM

313. :)

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:51 PM

204. + 1000 And an inhabitable planet. nt

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #25)

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:12 AM

458. The soul of the party was lost at the crossroads.

In exchange for personal prosperity.
The little people will just have to suck it up.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:39 PM

28. I stick to talking Republican politics IRL...

...even GOP people I know are willing to poke fun at their party this year. Including my Republican boss who came to my office today just to ask me if I had heard about Boehner's remarks. He is one of those Republicans who prefers Hillary to what the GOP has to offer this year.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:47 PM

33. Michelle and those she highlights in her article live in rarified air.

I do like her disclaimer: "evidence for this is entirely anecdotal. The people who came to hate each other over the Democratic primary are a small, unrepresentative group of political obsessives. Most people never talk about politics online..."

I don't give a shit what Maryna the curator and art advisor thinks about those she refers to as "progressive bros." She claims Hillary's "experience mirrors my experience." Wow! I don't know anyone who could claim that, and I am a 60 year old woman. I doubt very seriously she knows anything about me and mine.

I would like to point out that the majority of posters on this site has supported Bernie. However, a very small percentage of us have burned bridges or have EVER been overly rude. In fact, most have never said a disparaging word about Hillary. Yes, there are some, but a very small number given the number of pro-Bernie people there are on this site.

Skinner, the only thing Michelle's article gives me perspective on is how the NARRATIVE GETS HIJACKED by people who get paid to explain it to us.

I'm not buying it.

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Response to SalviaBlue (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:02 AM

261. x10,000 one mature woman to another :) We have institutional memory.

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Response to SalviaBlue (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:39 AM

331. It is a tradition of capitalism, say or do whatever you have to..........

for the end game of getting your hands on that last measly greenback. We shouldn't feel surprised for them running par for course.

Consider who they work for and what their job is in maintaining the establishment and easy to understand where they get off.

At any rate, point well taken, it's mostly subterfuge and or just plain bullshit

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:47 PM

34. This election has really sorted out the real progressives from pretenders

I can definitely appreciate those in the Dem party who are conservative. While I disagree with their political views, I can understand and respect their decision.

The real hacks have really been exposed in this election though. Those who pretended they were the most progressive have been shown for who they truly are. Anyone before the election that said they believed in single payer, campaign finance reform, higher wages for the poor/middle class, against trade deals, against foreign interventions, radical action on climate change, etc, and still voted for Hillary is not a true progressive.

The most frustrating part is by calling someone like Hillary progressive, they are diluting and confusing the public on true progressiveness. If Clinton called her policies as moderate and conservative, and their supporters said that is what they are, I would feel better about it because when their policies fail, the voters can compare that against true progressive positions. Instead our movement has being cojacked by the DLC.

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Response to kcjohn1 (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:15 PM

178. + 1 nt.

 

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Response to kcjohn1 (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:58 AM

310. Nicely said

 

There is absolutely nothing progressive about Hillary. She speaks a good game, but her actions say otherwise.

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Response to kcjohn1 (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:07 PM

427. If anything good came out of it, at least we know for certain who the fakes are.

Boy howdy, there are many.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:49 PM

36. I love my family, friends, the planet. A candidate tepid or agnostic on climate change fucks us over

 

I'm pissed at those who refuse to see the handwriting on the wall. Their support of a candidate willing to fuck us all is incomprehensible.

Perhaps those who see how pointless and unnecessary it is to acknowledge that climate change is a BFD can explain how they rationalized the forthcoming catastrophic weather and environmental events that are most certainly coming.

You think your wealth shields you? (Incredulous laugh)



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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:02 PM

51. If people don't share my values, they are not my friends. It's that simple.

What this primary has shown is that people have come to a realization that they don't share the same values.

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Response to antigop (Reply #51)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:49 PM

110. That is just unbelievably isolating.

Who wants to live in an echo chamber? I'm glad I have friends that are leftists, rightists, Democrats, Republicans, independents, every racial stripe, and a veritable smorgasbord of religious ideas as well. I've never met anyone who shares all of my values or ideals and I doubt I ever will, thank heavens, because that would be so boring.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #110)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:51 PM

115. um, no, it's not. nt

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Response to antigop (Reply #115)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:55 PM

118. Alrighty then.

I've always found that energy that flows is energy that grows. As such I rarely close the door on anyone. You must have some wisdom I'm unaware of.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #118)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:24 AM

267. So having friends is more important than saving the planet, getting kids out of poverty, providing

jobs, saying no to fracking, educating children, etc. You just want to get along with all kinds of people. That's a nice goal. Me, my mission is a little greater than that. I find lots of diverse people and I go camping with them and to the movies and have dinner. Fortunately, they usually are people that can relate to my compassion for the planet, animals and humans. But that's just me.

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #267)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:27 AM

268. Great premise

It's right up there with "how long have you been beating your wife?"

Not interested.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:47 PM

108. Do you, now?

For you told someone the other day that they were an "enemy" for not supporting Sanders. Does this, in fact, mean that anyone in your family and friendship circles that don't support Sanders is also an enemy? Well, it's the Christian thing to love our enemies but, well, yeah.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #108)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:36 PM

151. I'm not a christian.

 

Anyone who doesn't believe climate change is the #1 electoral issue this year are enemies of humanity. Nothing to do with Sanders really although you can persist in trying to spin it that way.



But please, newbie, continue your quest to render every single thing you say a lie. You do know we can read your post history here?

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #151)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:39 PM

154. What are you talking about?

What have I said that's a lie? My views are pretty damned consistent actually.

If you can read my post history, then you can see how many times I've been accused of being a paid troll on Hillary's payroll. That, my dear, is a lie, but I haven't seen you criticize that once so I guess you must actually like liars. Given that, if you think I'm such a liar, then you would think I could be your new best friend.

Just because we aren't for Bernie does not mean climate change does not matter to us. I for one think the linking of the two is disingenuous.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #151)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:42 PM

158. And if it isn't clear that I'm not a Christian ...

... after reading my post history, then I don't know what to tell you. I got so many accusations of paid troll and sock account for whoever got banned that I pretty much turned my entire profile into a circular ad for all things me simply to demonstrate that I am not a paid troll. Yeah, some of the "you're a paid troll" people decided to attack me personally, all while never quite admitting that their personal attacks must prove that, again, I'm not a paid troll, but whatevs. I can laugh at all of this because I know your candidate is going to lose and I will at least be rewarded the schadenfreude that comes with that.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #158)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:29 PM

187. Just now read your profile. LOL, if I'm ever in Salem....

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Response to Hekate (Reply #187)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:35 PM

191. haha cool!

Love the name. She's one of my go-to spirits. Was thinking of going to Lagina at some point.

I live in New Orleans now, though, but am usually up in Salem in October.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #158)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:00 AM

210. I used to live in Nawlins in the early 80's, climate change is gonna be a real drag there

It doesn't even take much of a rain to have boats going up and down your street and that was before the sea level really started rising.

The next Katrina is going to totally drown your town but I won't be feeling shadenfreude because I have neighbors right now who left there after Katrina and I know how much they miss their home.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #210)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:29 AM

271. Heeeeeere we go ...

Where did I ever say I wasn't for climate change reform? You don't know every one of my issues. Unlike most Bernie supporters, who suddenly became all, like, pro-gun and stuff because their sainted candidate is, I don't agree with all of these candidates on everything. That said, I think Hillary will get much farther with the climate change issue than Bernie ever would.

But way to be all like disaster movie about it.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #271)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:09 PM

431. I've been through two hurricanes, nothing as heavy as Katrina

Yeah, disaster movie is pretty much it, half our roof blew away, thankfully we were renting at the time and just moved.

Where I live now ice storms are the most destructive natural disasters over a wide area although tornadoes probably kill more people. In the long run I expect a Carrington event type of solar flare is gonna be what really knocks our civilization flat, we are highly dependent on reliable electric power and a strong enough solar flare can take out the electric grid to a big extent.

I'm so old I remember when Jimmy Carter called American energy independence "The moral equivalent of war".. As a grandfather and soon to be great grandfather I think climate change is "The moral equivalent of war" at the moment.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #431)

Mon May 2, 2016, 03:59 PM

523. And Hillary is for combating climate change.

She has quite an extensive issue statement on the subject:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/climate/

The Republicans don't even believe climate change is real. That Hillary has such a strong position on the subject ought to show people how progressive she is.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #158)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:27 AM

269. So you laugh when a compassionate candidate loses? That's sad.

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #269)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:29 AM

272. Huh?

Where did I say I was a Christian? I'm Christian in name only.

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Response to nolawarlock (Reply #272)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:35 AM

277. Noted that so changed but you saw it too quickly. Like me, you're addicted. :)

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Response to snowy owl (Reply #277)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:38 AM

278. Well there is that. :-D

I may be passionate about this stuff, but I also never take myself or anything else too seriously. But for what it's worth, you're saving my husband from having to listen to me ramble on about politics, a subject he dreads.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:53 PM

41. Nice try.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:54 PM

43. And the Presidency is the least powerful branch of our government.

 

I can't think of a single thing that any President has done during my lifetime (57 years) that has affected me personally. I understand that people want change, not just for themselves, but for the rest of the country, too.

But you know something? The President is the least likely person to bring about that change. The power is in Congress. All this vitriol. All this burning of bridges. It's all for nothing.

We need to live our lives. If we want to make lasting change, then we should realize it's going to take a lot more than Facebook likes for a specific candidate or DU recommendations. If we're not going to be working for where it counts, then we need to see DU for what it really is: a discussion forum. That's all.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #43)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:00 PM

47. Plus a thousand

I fully intend to up my involvement, both in my political district--which is under the fabulous liberal lion Jim McDermott AND my union--I'm already a unit union rep, but I'm going to a leadership conference, and a few other things.

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Response to randome (Reply #43)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:42 PM

103. Boom!

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Response to randome (Reply #43)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:03 AM

216. Which is why Trump as President isn't really that big a deal

The Presidency is all but powerless, Trump would be totally ineffective at getting his agenda passed.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #216)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:57 PM

411. Well, good point. But if the GOP has the Presidency AND Congress, they will be unstoppable.

 

As, perhaps, the Democrats could be if we had control of Congress long enough to make any difference. If we retake the Senate, that's at least one step toward getting there.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #43)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:34 AM

275. Rot starts at the top and seeps down. You need a good leader.

I hope you've picked one. Leaders are all important for establishing the vision. Your'e not in business are you? Likes in any blog are a waste of time. Change starts with informed voting. Then engaged and active participation in the process.

Just living our lives does not achieve that.

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Response to randome (Reply #43)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:55 AM

284. There are a whole bunch of people in the ME and Afghanistan who would say different

oh no, they can't, they're dead because they were droned.

And actually the president is very powerful because he has the power of the veto.

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Response to Skinner (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:58 PM

44. Skinner, we've hung out together for thirteen years.

 

If you and I could sit down over a beer, I'd tell you this:

I get that the relationship isn't symmetrical, it's mostly a business/customer relationship... kinda. I know that as a site that is free to me, I'm not really a customer, but my eyes, and the words I type are the product being sold.

I'm fine with that because I felt that we had a shared purpose in... not so much promoting the Democratic party as a jersey or a logo, but promoting progressive change through the Democratic party.

... But there was a competing agenda at work; the party was also being used as a vehicle to promote oligarchy and to enrich families through influence peddling; the purchasing of superdelegates in the guise of "helping downticket", money laundering by exploiting citizens united and superpacs to their full capacity.

When I heard that you have a personal financial stake in the success of that family, I was concerned that I'd been sold out. That what I understood to be our shared agenda had been abandoned.

I appreciate that you haven't... what? Banned Sanders supporters? Not quite sure what the "call it" folks have in mind actually, but I think it would be a show of good faith for you to explain (or deny) the family connection to the Clinton campaign, and to talk about the measures you've taken to be fair with your community, approximately 70% of whom supported Bernie.

One other thing: If the civility at DU was a significant concern, I question the wisdom of opening the cells at azkaban, and guaranteeing that the inmates need not fear reincarceration.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #44)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:08 PM

55. Exactly.

Giving the Transparency Page All-Stars the green light over the past few weeks has not exactly elevated the discourse.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #55)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:35 PM

89. So true

 

It just emboldened and rewarded them.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #55)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:05 AM

290. The problem at DU is that passionate partisans are allowed to go to war in GD:P

GDP has been a cesspool of bad feelings since its inception and should be eliminated. See my similar post directly to Skinner below.

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Response to andym (Reply #290)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:08 AM

294. You're right in that primaries - save 2012, for obvious reasons - are always ugly as hell here.

I think DU will survive, just as it has before, though.

It is interesting that this was the first primary without an incumbent D POTUS running for re-election (2012, again) that was also held under the DU3 system- i.e. Juries and Hosts, not the old Mods system.

I actually think it would have been worse, the way the site used to be run.

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