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Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:43 PM

MannyGoldstein appreciation thread

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Reply MannyGoldstein appreciation thread (Original post)
Bubzer Dec 2015 OP
fleur-de-lisa Dec 2015 #1
LiberalArkie Dec 2015 #2
Matariki Dec 2015 #32
merrily Dec 2015 #106
Matariki Dec 2015 #108
Flying Squirrel Dec 2015 #116
Bubzer Dec 2015 #122
cui bono Dec 2015 #164
KamaAina Dec 2015 #197
Flying Squirrel Dec 2015 #202
KamaAina Dec 2015 #209
Beartracks Dec 2015 #206
mountain grammy Dec 2015 #213
Pryderi Dec 2015 #244
Stuart G Dec 2015 #129
Bubzer Dec 2015 #145
femmedem Dec 2015 #142
cui bono Dec 2015 #163
PatrickforO Dec 2015 #227
Snotcicles Dec 2015 #139
mahina Dec 2015 #242
Ed Suspicious Dec 2015 #3
daleanime Dec 2015 #34
roguevalley Dec 2015 #63
LovingA2andMI Dec 2015 #228
Bubzer Dec 2015 #118
BeanMusical Dec 2015 #123
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BeanMusical Dec 2015 #128
NRaleighLiberal Dec 2015 #144
Paka Dec 2015 #168
QC Dec 2015 #261
MrMickeysMom Dec 2015 #272
ljm2002 Dec 2015 #263
jalan48 Dec 2015 #4
LineReply .
Fearless Dec 2015 #5
Lifelong Protester Dec 2015 #6
Fearless Dec 2015 #7
Lifelong Protester Dec 2015 #8
Fearless Dec 2015 #10
villager Dec 2015 #13
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #16
DonnaM Dec 2015 #175
rhett o rick Dec 2015 #252
CaptainTruth Dec 2015 #190
Lifelong Protester Dec 2015 #208
ljm2002 Dec 2015 #264
BeanMusical Dec 2015 #266
Bubzer Dec 2015 #14
Fearless Dec 2015 #15
Bubzer Dec 2015 #19
roguevalley Dec 2015 #66
MadDAsHell Dec 2015 #143
LovingA2andMI Dec 2015 #229
Nite Owl Dec 2015 #180
Iggo Dec 2015 #130
Bubzer Dec 2015 #133
Iggo Dec 2015 #134
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Dragonfli Dec 2015 #155
dreamnightwind Dec 2015 #167
Babel_17 Jan 2016 #273
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liberalnarb Dec 2015 #90
Fearless Dec 2015 #100
BeanMusical Dec 2015 #127
grasswire Dec 2015 #171
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sabrina 1 Dec 2015 #217
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hay rick Dec 2015 #223
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ljm2002 Dec 2015 #262
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MisterP Dec 2015 #269
BeanMusical Dec 2015 #271
polly7 Jan 2016 #275
Android3.14 Jan 2016 #276
arcane1 Jan 2016 #277
polly7 Jan 2016 #278
merrily Jan 2016 #280
polly7 Jan 2016 #282
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Bubzer Jan 2016 #293
Katashi_itto Jan 2016 #279
merrily Jan 2016 #281
Katashi_itto Jan 2016 #285
merrily Jan 2016 #286
Katashi_itto Jan 2016 #287
merrily Jan 2016 #288
Katashi_itto Jan 2016 #289
merrily Jan 2016 #290
Katashi_itto Jan 2016 #291
Bubzer Jan 2016 #292
delrem Jan 2016 #294

Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:44 PM

1. +1

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:45 PM

2. Yes, I will miss his take on things.

MannyGoldstein
LooNix
NYC_Skip


Who else?

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Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:08 PM

32. Oh no!

His posts are so entertaining. It was difficult to not lash out yesterday.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:24 PM

106. I never saw MannyGoldstein as someone who posted in hothead mode.

Anything is possible, but it was not my perception of him.

And he was goaded, baited and trolled like no one else was, with the possible exception of Will Pitt.

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Response to merrily (Reply #106)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:28 PM

108. Yeah, I agree.

He was rightfully very angry yesterday and as 'hot headed' as I've ever seen him. It was the statement that he would write in Sanders if he didn't get the Democratic nomination. Given the anger level yesterday it should have been given a pass. In fact I think that statement said in anger during the primaries should be given a pass. During the general election, well that's another story.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #108)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:40 PM

116. Funny that the offending post is not available

For anyone to examine... So much for "transparency."

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Reply #116)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:49 PM

122. I thought that was odd too. Decidedly suspicious.

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Reply #116)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:02 PM

164. Well that's a load of bullshit. DU is decidedly UNdemocratic.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #197)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:38 PM

202. That's the post?

Better ban all 221 people who recced it then. If it was so bad, why didn't they lock it?

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Response to Flying Squirrel (Reply #202)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:32 PM

209. Yup. That's it.

 

Apparently he advocated maybe, possibly not voting for what he perceived to be a really bad Dem in the general. Advocating not voting for Dems is a no-no. But worthy of a time-out, if you ask me, not the ban-hammer.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #197)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:16 PM

206. WTF, that's it?

So, I gather from that post he's really pro-Bernie. That's it.

I don't see the parts about hating Hillary, not voting for her if she's the nominee, and actively working to ensure President Trump/Cruz becomes a reality.

Perhaps he typed it in invisible ink? Cuz I sure don't see anything ban-worthy here.

=====================

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #197)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 10:52 PM

213. That's it? wow.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #197)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 09:50 AM

244. I've seen worse than that here. I've had my posts

removed and have been reprimanded here before. I've been spending more time the past few years posting in FB groups and Twitter.

Sad to see DU sabotaging itself.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #108)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:55 PM

129. This explains it exactly...Matariki has the key to it all !!!!!!!!!!!

People were so pissed off about the events of the DNC. If the events had been settled immediately, quietly, Manny would still be around.. Many were so mad, that we often lash out.
Perhaps in quieter times this couldn't have happened but it was such a big issue in all the press. It took two or three days to settle things.. I agree, he should have been given a pass..perhaps Skinner tried to get him to remove the thread, but he was still too angry at the situation and the DNC. You know, we really do get angry here, and this is a fucken computer..correct???

Often we do not stop and think about what we are saying.. The head of the DNC took awful action, and we responded. If she had just shut up, and said that this would be worked out, (which she did not say)..actions might have been different..

Still I think Skinner should have given Manny a pass..but that is my opinion only...

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #129)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:15 PM

145. An opinion I agree with.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #108)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:07 PM

142. Oh no. I thought the Admins had said they would let statements about not voting for the nominee

in the general get a pass until after the primary.

There are a lot of posters whom I appreciate, but Manny's absence will make DU much less fun.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #108)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:01 PM

163. And btw... writing in a Democrat is still voting for a Dem.

Bernie isn't going to run as a third party candidate and is running as a Dem in the presidential election, so technically what Manny said (I'm going with what you posted since I wasn't really on DU yesterday) was not against the rules.

They are just looking for reasons to purge Bernie supporters.

!

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Response to Matariki (Reply #108)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 02:16 AM

227. Well, we were all hot headed yesterday - at least I was.

This Wasserman Schultz, she's got to go.

And, it does look like Bernie's campaign did wrong. But he's fired what, three people so far? So he's taking the bull by the horns at least.

Honestly, I think it is still a ratfuck - Bernie's guys just gave them a golden opportunity. Because why did DWS go to press instead of the police?

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Response to merrily (Reply #106)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:04 PM

139. You know that good feeling you get after watching a episode of Intervention that succeeded?

Maybe we all need it at some point if we don't know when it's time to quit.
Manny just felt like family.

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Response to Snotcicles (Reply #139)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 06:28 AM

242. To me also.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:46 PM

3. I'm getting tired of these.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:09 PM

34. very tired....

of having to do those, yes indeed.

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Response to daleanime (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:38 PM

63. Love me some manny. :D

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Response to daleanime (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 02:18 AM

228. +1

Plus a place where folks are welcome to speak their minds -- truly Underground in the since of that word - Independent Underground

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:42 PM

118. It's worth noting that the playing field is far from even. Hillary supporters are appearantly immune

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #118)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:49 PM

123. That one was suspended so many times that I stopped counting. Probably holds the record.

And yet, still not banned.

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #123)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:52 PM

126. Right. And there are a few other hillary supporters who make similar comments who're still here.

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #126)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:54 PM

128. Very true.

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #123)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:13 PM

144. the absolute worst here. and yet...

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #123)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:26 PM

168. MRT is truly one of the most obnoxious posters around.

For the most part I pass over his nonsense stuff.

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Response to Paka (Reply #168)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:00 PM

261. He does know a lot about pretzels, though.

Credit where it's due.

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Response to Paka (Reply #168)

Tue Dec 22, 2015, 12:52 AM

272. Got him and others on ignore...

Their likeness is a big blank, just like the countless points they try to make.

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #118)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:16 PM

263. Well, see, some animals are more equal...

...than others.

Same as it always was.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:46 PM

4. You rock Manny.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:47 PM

5. .

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:48 PM

6. I was away for a while

has Manny been banned/exiled/hidden out of existence?

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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:49 PM

7. Yes by Skinner

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Response to Fearless (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:50 PM

8. Wow!

I guess you need to be careful around here.

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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:52 PM

10. This has happened before. It's only the beginning.

Don't expect equal treatment to HRC supporters.

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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:54 PM

13. Some people do, at least. Others, not so much. nt

 

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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:58 PM

16. Yup. The ToS only applies to Bernie supporters now

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:58 PM

175. Absolutely!

TOS applies only to Bernie supporters, apparently.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:29 PM

252. Glad you agree. nm

 

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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 07:32 PM

190. It seems you do need to be careful here, & what sucks is ...

... I don't even know what I have to be careful about.

Where's the OP that led to the ban? If I could read it I'd be able to see what to avoid.

As-is, I'm left with nothing more than WTF ... & that lack of transparency provides motivation to go somewhere else.

Sad.

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #190)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:24 PM

208. Same here.

I think Manny said he (or she, I don't know Manny) would not vote for HRC.

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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:17 PM

264. Yes, you have to be careful...

...especially if you're a Sanders supporter.

If you're a Clinton supporter, and say you will never, ever, ever vote for Bernie even if he wins the nomination... well that's a different matter entirely.

All depends on whose ox is gored. And who is doing the refereeing.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #264)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 05:40 PM

266. +1 Absolutely.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:55 PM

14. So it is permanent? Thats poorly thought out.

I guess it's safe to assume skinner is not a friend to Bernie supporters then.

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:58 PM

15. It usually is. Skinner wasn't a friend to gay people either

Several years ago when he purged quite a few of us for standing up against homophobic attacks on DU. Even after admitting he was wrong months later he didn't reinstate posters he'd banned. I wonder what the other admins think about his leadership in these moments.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:00 PM

19. That's really unfortunate. Dems thrive on freedom of speech... I guess DU is more of a fiefdom.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:39 PM

66. he let rapists who outed themselves stay on a rape thread. he's a hillary

supporter and this will probably get me banned too. MANNY! COME BACK!

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Response to Fearless (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:13 PM

143. For sure. Morning after the 2008 election he congratulated us POC...

for having a President of color (as if that's why we voted for him), and COMPLETELY ignored what had happened with Prop 8 in CA.

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Response to MadDAsHell (Reply #143)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 02:24 AM

229. WOW, just WOW....

To save any posting privileges here...."A President Of Color"???? WTF does that mean?

Where free speech is free and truly Underground - Independent Underground

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Response to Fearless (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 06:36 PM

180. I remember that

it was a very mean thing to do.

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:55 PM

130. It's safe to assume that Skinner is a fiercely loyal Clinton supporter.

He said basically as much before the primary season began.

We were warned.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #130)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:57 PM

133. Fiercely loyal or not, being openly biased is a terrible business move. Bad PR too.

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #133)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:59 PM

134. I'm saying what it's safe to assume.

Emphasis on safe.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #134)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:03 PM

138. I hear what you're saying. Its iritating that walking on eggshells has become required to be safe.

A veritable: defy the emperor at your own peril - type thing.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #130)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:26 PM

155. DU is owned, apparently, by the husband of Hillary's 2008 campaign treasurer

Or so it has been said many times, without confirmation it could merely be a rumor.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #155)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:25 PM

167. Bans should be impartial and rare, IMHO

https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/expend.php?cycle=2010&cid=N00000019

Sen. Hillary Clinton

Expenditures, 2009-2010

Top Vendors/Recipients
Vendor/Recipient Total No. of Payments
Penn, Schoen & Berland $4,741,278 73
Internal Revenue Service $1,578,478 118
Utrecht & Phillips $665,895 28
MSHC Partners $397,112 18
Moskwa, Shelly $185,295 49

Shelly Moskwa is apparently Skinner's wife.

I don't know her curent involvement in Hillary's campaign, though I've read that she is working for Hillary still. Does it matter? Yeah, it probably does matter, IMO. I haven't seen anything approaching open disclosure of this relationship, and/or any other paid relationships between DU and Hillary or related groups. Such relationships should be out there and not hidden or they should not exist.

At this point it obviously goes to whether this site is an uncompromised and neutral venue for Democratic politics. When Skinner personally gets involved in banning Bernie supporters (I assume that's how it works) there is an issue there that would benefit from a lot of sunlight.

There is other info out there on his wife's relationship to Clinton, I won't post it here because it is on vile RW sites.

Beyond that, Skinner designed the old DLC/PPI website, and the hillarymojo site.

I think the jury system isolates some of the problems that arise from bias at the admin level, but outright banning is, as I understand it, done by the admins, and we're seeing how that goes.

A useful change to this site would be to implement a systematic procedure for banning rather than admin discretion. If Skinner wasn't so heavily invested in the Clinton campaign I wouldn't think it would be necessary, but that's not the world we're living in.

Without that fix, it's hard to see DU being a legitimate vehicle for anything beyond furthering the interests of the corporate wing of the Democratic Party. I like this place and want it to be better than that.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #167)

Fri Jan 1, 2016, 06:00 PM

273. Very well reasoned, thank you for taking the time to write it. (nt)

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Response to Babel_17 (Reply #273)

Fri Jan 1, 2016, 07:28 PM

274. You're quite welcome

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Response to Fearless (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:03 PM

90. I think Skinner has a bias. His profile Pic is the Hillary H

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Response to liberalnarb (Reply #90)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:16 PM

100. Yes his preference for candidates is well established

At the beginning however he suggested that Hillary supporters should be nice to the majority of DU that supports Bernie so as to not disenfranchise voters... Guess that no longer applies.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #100)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:53 PM

127. Eventually this will badly hurt his bank account.

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #127)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:39 PM

171. yea

when the best writers and thinkers of the 80% of the members who support someone other than Hillary are shoved out, and the rest of the 80% follow, then the 20% left here on DU will have a cheap, bland, boring ghost town.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #171)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 06:09 PM

176. +1

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Response to grasswire (Reply #171)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 02:27 AM

230. Time for a Video...

My Heart Is A Ghost Town....



So appropriate, given the word Ghost Town....and the Second Verse of This Song.

"Died last night in my dreams
All the machines
Had been disconnected
Time was thrown at the wind
And all of my friends
Had been disaffected

Now, I'm searching for trust
In a city of rust
A city of vampires
Tonight, Elvis is dead
And everyone's spread
And love is a satire

And now I know my heart is a ghost town"

Kind of ironic of sorts.

Go Adam Lambert! - Independent Underground

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #127)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 06:38 PM

181. Yep! I just donated, but

I'm sure I'll be able to live with the Ads going forward. I have no problem with any of the Admins/owners of this site backing any candidate. Having said that, I'd prefer they recuse themselves when terminating opposition supporters unless, of course, they apply the same standards to all (which apparently hasn't been done in this case).

Manny, I'm so sad that this has happened to you, but want you to know you're one of best satirists I've ever seen. Best of luck to you now and always. Hope your holidays are happy ones. You will be missed!

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #127)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 07:06 PM

183. Dammit, my automatic renewal of my star membership went through recently. Won't happen again.

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #127)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:13 AM

221. "Eventually this will badly hurt his bank account."

 

If it's any consolation, I don't feel bad about using ad blockers on DU anymore, not that I've ever clicked on an ad inside a web page.

Hell, if this is all true and becomes general knowledge prior to the election, there might just be a revolt.

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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:50 PM

9. Apparently just happened. There was the usual jr. high school-level glee about it from some quarters

 

...simply confirming what most sadly know about the present state of DU.

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Response to villager (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:52 PM

11. I was thinking more like grade school playground level glee...

Free speech...is not free...at least here...watch your step and march like a Zombie for her...or else.

Manny I will SO miss your posts...at least his voice cannot be suppressed on the big, wide Net!

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:37 PM

113. I don't like that manny got banned

 

but, for the record, the 1st Amendment doesn't protect speech on in Internet forum.

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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:52 PM

12. PPR'ed

I'm not sure if that's permanent or not. Seems to me, it would be pretty foolish to perma-ban the best writers on a site...even if you don't agree with them... but a timeout would make sense. Corrective action without necessarily silencing a voice. But that's just my two cents. If this is how things normally run her, I may have to building a directly competing website.

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:00 PM

22. yes, it's a curious business move

sort of like McDonalds getting rid of burgers and fries.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:30 PM

54. More like Sears getting rid of retail stores

There was more money to be made in finance.

But it happens to all...they soon become cooped by money. And then meld with the system.

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:31 PM

55. It would be nice if there were something like a Liberal Underground,

, without the stench of the DLC/ThirdWay/TrojanHorse/DINO types who have infiltrated the party of FDR.

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Response to kath (Reply #55)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:53 PM

85. This!

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Response to kath (Reply #55)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:49 PM

121. Wish there was

I'd love to see someone like Cali, Willy T or Sabrina put one up. Third Way cementheads need not apply...

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Response to kath (Reply #55)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 02:40 AM

231. Well There's Independent Underground....

We're normally posters given a permanent boot are Ultra Right Wingers and Trump Supporters -- you know the one's that have little to no mind to use proper sarcasm to speak (type) on anything of substance.

Independent Underground

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Response to kath (Reply #55)

Sat Jan 16, 2016, 04:07 AM

295. There was once a left underground, but that's a whole other story.

However, there is now a forum for Sanders Supporters jackpineradicals.org

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:59 PM

17. Holy shit!

And it's the royalists who created their own site because they felt that HRH wasn't being treated deferentially enough on DU?

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 01:59 PM

18. ... ---....

 


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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:00 PM

20. Hopefully he will post his wonderful musings on the site he created some time ago

http://mannygoldstein.net/

I'll miss his posts. They often toed right up to the edge of that line, but did so with a lot of hard truths.

I'll miss watching them catch fire and create debate.

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:08 PM

31. Thanks for that link!

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:23 PM

47. ^this^ nt

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:33 PM

57. Thanks for the link!

See you over there, Manny!

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:36 PM

59. Mega thanks for the link. n/t

 

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:38 PM

62. Thanks for the link!

 

Bookmarked.

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:41 PM

70. I stop there every now and then,

haven't seen anything new for a while. damn i'm sorry they banned him, I just donated a 100 buck to this site, now i'm having second thoughts......

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:44 PM

72. Thanks for that.

I just sent Manny a message through his contact info there.

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:47 PM

78. Thanks for the link. I will miss him.

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:04 PM

92. Thanks for the link. I hope his blog will be updated more often!

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 06:15 PM

177. Thanks for the link.

See ya on the other side!

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:17 AM

222. where's the link to the post that got him banned?

 

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Response to tk2kewl (Reply #222)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 06:08 PM

270. it's not even shut down by a mod/admin

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Response to Cassiopeia (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 02:41 AM

232. Bookmarked!

Thanks for the link!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:00 PM

21. Manny, we will not grieve. We will keep marching. nt

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Response to retrowire (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:05 PM

26. I will grieve for the both of us... and I will keep marching.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:01 PM

23. I saw his last post. I refreshed, and it was gone. You will be missed.

Cheers Manny, wherever you are! Telling it like it is, with your brevity.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:02 PM

24. Bye Manny. I'll miss you. n/t

 

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:05 PM

25. IT sucks that we need this thread. Manny has been one of DU's best as long as I've been here.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:06 PM

27. +1

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Response to Scuba (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 07:21 PM

186. +1

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:06 PM

28. The consumate wise ass and satirist

At times I balked and disagreed but I never didn't smile. If you're watching Rabbi Goldstien, you'll be missed.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:06 PM

29. can someone explain what happened.... how people get tombstoned

 

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Response to Leftyforever (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:20 PM

42. The admins can block posters from posting

Generally permanently.


Skinner did that today to Manny.

The term "tombstoned" comes from a previous version of DU software where in the banned poster's profile they inserted a picture of a tombstone.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:21 PM

44. Do they give reasons or explain why

 

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Response to Fearless (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:02 PM

137. Sad that it's not grammatically correct, either.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:07 PM

30. .



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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:08 PM

33. Do Not Go Gently .... All The Best Manny

eom

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:12 PM

35. I will miss his humor and posts

Manny was on target regarding the third way infestation of the Democratic Party.

He also communicated the reason why the Democratic Party is taking such a huge hit and loss in members.

If he posts somewhere else, I'd be interested in subscribing there.

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Response to Jackilope (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:25 PM

50. +1

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:14 PM

36. Manny, you rock

I've been a member here since the beginning, literally. There was under 1,000 members when I joined in 2001 (yes, low post count....). Manny has been one of the best community members ever to post here.

Skinner - you've gotten the last dime from me you will ever get.

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Response to MsLeopard (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:38 PM

61. I am one of those early joiners also...

 

It is funny how I found this place. From a Bama football site (full of right wing nuts) I learned about that dead right wing site. There I found Bartcop. There I first saw info on DU.

I went to the DC Bartcop gathering. Skinner was there. Short conversation with him left me with an uneasy feeling. Not so left as I like. This is a big part of his life and I guess he really want to keep it going. I still love much about this place but the current smell is strong.

Lots of good posters have moved on - many pushed - it is a sad thing

Not much room for real underground thoughts.

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Response to MsLeopard (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:59 PM

89. It's how much you post which brings in the profits.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:14 PM

37. +1

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:15 PM

38. .

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:15 PM

39. K&R I enjoy your humor.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:17 PM

40. Wait until the general.

It's going to get REALLY ugly.

I appreciated the hell out of Manny. He fought "The Turd Way" long and hard. Godpseed.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:18 PM

41. .

 

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:20 PM

43. K/R



From Wikipedia Commons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eugène_Delacroix_-_La_liberté_guidant_le_peuple.jpg)
(Public Domain)

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Response to Jack Rabbit (Reply #43)


Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:22 PM

46. ....

Me and Manny

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:24 PM

48. Love you, Msnny

I will miss you a lot.

So much for the big tent.

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Response to rbnyc (Reply #48)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:18 PM

149. I'm going to miss Manny a lot, but he was not advocating for a big tent

You can never run away from your problems. They follow you wherever you go. You need to address them head on. I am sorry that so many DUers seem not to get that. We need to fix the Democratic party from within, by building it's progressive base inside the party, not by getting mad and leaving it.

Yes, the democratic party just pulled a dirty trick on our best candidate, but it didn't bring him down. Let's turn it around to his advantage. He's still fighting and we need to stand with him and fight for the Democratic party to become what it should be.

I'm not advocating the tombstoning of Manny. I think under such circumstances, when the dem party plays dirty against it's own candidates, it is OK to be enraged. And I think maybe the TOS should be a little lenient in such cases. People are going to vent and blow up...even good long term users who understand the rules. Sometimes you just get so mad you say fuck the rules. It should not mean the end of long time DUer's. There should be a little judgement used in how the rules are applied when someone expresses honest anger and frustration, for a good reason. DWS did not use judgement in her sanction of Bernie's voter list access. I don't think Skinner used good judgement in not understanding this and permanently banning someone for being pissed at the DNC over such dirty tactics.

A lot of us are really pissed at the DNC. It's been building for some time and this was the straw that broke the camel's back for some. But please people...don't flee the party. Stay and stand with Bernie to try to fix it from within. That is the only way this is going to work. You don't have to donate to the party. But we need you to stand with us to change the party to it represents us, not republican lights. It's OK if it includes some blue dogs. That is the big tent that we need. But we need to build a strong progressive party. Let this fight be the standard bearer...let this be the anchor that brings us together and gets more people out to vote for Bernie.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #149)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:42 PM

172. You don't need to advocate for big tent...

...to be included in it.

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Response to rbnyc (Reply #172)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 12:11 AM

220. But he was saying basically that he no longer wanted to support it

He wanted to not support the party, instead of working toward fixing it. He was willing to throw his vote to a republican (unless he lives in a state where he didn't have to worry about that).

I think it was a temporary frustration and rage response, and he would probably have voted for the dem in the general, no matter who it was, if it meant not having Trump or Cruz as President.

I can only hope so. He's smart...he knows we can't let the Repubs back in.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:25 PM

49. DU will be a much less interesting place. nt

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Response to Chef Eric (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:27 PM

51. Agreed

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Response to Chef Eric (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:44 PM

73. My sentiments exactly

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Response to Chef Eric (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:53 PM

83. It sure will!

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #83)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:47 PM

120. Melissas appreciate Manny!!

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Response to Melissa G (Reply #120)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 12:59 PM

251. Hey there!

Good to see you again!

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #251)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 02:32 PM

258. You, too.

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Response to Chef Eric (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:01 AM

234. we get to keep his asshole detractors

just like we had to keep Will's

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Response to Skittles (Reply #234)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 05:41 PM

267. +1

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Response to Skittles (Reply #234)


Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:29 PM

52. Kick

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:30 PM

53. Oh No! I've Had To Take Break From Here From Time To Time...

but generally come back. Seems Manny has been here forever! I have been "very" careful about what I say though. DU has changed soooooooo much since I joined in 2004. But then so has OUR VERY OWN DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

I do recall the notice that anyone who said they wouldn't vote for Hillary was going to get banned and I have cautioned others who go to the edge.

It is sad, but I know better than to say much more. Perhaps someone needs to start a thread about the rule about Hillary. I remember it from a while back.

Any new members may not know about it. I don't want to be the one to start the thread though.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:31 PM

56. If DU loses all its Sanders supporters, it will lose 75% of its donor revenue.

 

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:36 PM

58. That could hurt. n/t

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:45 PM

75. I suspect our donations are a pittance compared to the revenue

that comes in from other sources.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:46 PM

76. True, but we're at least 75% of DU's posters too

 

No more ad revenue for people who don't post here anymore.

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #76)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:57 PM

87. I used to allow ads to be viewed here at DU. I just set my ad blocker to screen them out.

I consider that my protest.

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #87)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:17 PM

101. Same here. My subscription ended this week and I planned to renew yesterday.

 

I chose not to.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:47 PM

79. I think that you are right but without our traffic the site would wither and die.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:37 PM

60. Some here just didn't get his sense of humor....

 

Which often provided the best laughs.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #60)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:39 PM

65. That's because conservatives don't do humor very well. It goes over their heads. n/t

 

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #65)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:11 PM

97. Exactly!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:39 PM

64. He chose his user name well


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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:39 PM

67. Love your humor.

 

Always looked forward to your posts. You're one of the best -- I will miss you!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:40 PM

68. What did I miss?

I see that he was tombstoned for supposedly advocating not voting for the nominee (p.s. has that happened to ANY of the Hillary supporters that say they won't vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination?), but I missed the thread where he did that and haven't seen any links.

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Response to a2liberal (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:45 PM

74. If any of those Clinton supporters get this treatment, I will be astonished.

 

Skinner changed his avatar before any other candidates announced. Then he created that ridiculous HillaryMojo site with our money.

He's not impartial.

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:53 PM

84. I've seen Her supporters

Say horrible things about Bernie. Threatened to not vote for him, to campaign against him and yet they are still around. Things that make you go hmmm...

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Response to werknotgoin2takeit (Reply #84)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:18 PM

103. It might be time for me to enact a zero-tolerance policy and start using alert for what it's for.

 

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:40 PM

69. That is too bad. I liked his posts. :(

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:41 PM

71. Kick and Rec

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:47 PM

77. Are the DU admins professional DEM staffers?

 

It seems to me.... if I recollect from background reading during the LGBT "ethnic cleansing" that went on here about 5 years ago ( They reconsidered after a while and let some back in, but the LGBT Group is a friggin' cemetery now.) ....that I read that at least one admin was , essentially, a staffer, or an ex staffer to DEM pols.

Meaning.... it may be hard for them to think about this cycle w/o wondering how it might effect THEM, professionally.

If that's the mentality... I said "IF" .....I imagine Manny's penetrating insights might begin to irk after a while.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:47 PM

80. Oh for fuck's sake. A permanent tombstone?

Grrrr...

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #80)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 07:28 PM

189. I know how you feel. nt

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:48 PM

81. Dammit Manny!



Gonna miss your insights and wicked, wicked humor.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:51 PM

82. I can't Believe it!

I just posted in the Bernie group how I started an ignore list for the first time. Come back and find that one of my favorite posters has been given the boot. This is terrible. I've been here a long time and I don't want to give this place up but I'm feeling more unwelcome all the time. Manny I will miss you, sometimes your wit went over my head a first, but once I realized what you were about, you never failed to crack me up. I don't know what else to say really but... **shakes fist at the sky, screams incoherently to the heavens**

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:56 PM

86. Miss you, Manny.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 02:57 PM

88. Love his biting satire.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:04 PM

91. He will be missed

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:05 PM

93. Rec 100

 

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:05 PM

94. I'll miss Manny too!!!!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:05 PM

95. Its especially strange because he technically did not violate TOS

According to skinners own explanation

Say he will not vote for the Democratic nominee if his favored candidate does not win the nomination, and encouraged other people to do the same. From the TOS: "advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground."

Seems as if saying that you won't vote for the democratic candidate is the equivalent of saying to vote for a republican or a third-party spoiler. Which is strange because what if someone is just a non-voter as many in this country are, then by definition they would not be voting for the democratic candidate. Can someone get banned for just saying that they are a none voter?

I hope skinner can re-evaluate this decision and take into account that manny was a passionate and hyperbolic poster and that debate is a good thing. Also, for me personally, when someone loses it and throws a fit about "how they are not gonna vote for the democratic nominee cuz its not their candidate".....that just makes me think less about the poster and the idea of not voting for the democratic nominee. I believe that others around here likely respond the same way.

This policy, and subsequent application, seems to assume that advocating for "not voting for the democratic nominee" influences people to "not vote for the democratic nominee", as opposed to the opposite. For me personally, I think it makes the poster look a little politically immature and naive as well as reflecting to a moment of weakness where their emotions get the best of them and they post something that is embarrassing. This is not to criticize manny's character as well all have said things in the heat of the moment or over the course of an election cycle we regret later.

Me thinks the punishment does not fit the crime. Also, I worry that if we don't have this dialogue then people really will become apathetic and not vote for the democratic nominee because they are not engaged in dialogue about the importance of electing a democrat. Part of the dialogue is pushing back at those that say they will refuse to vote for the democratic nominee if it is not their nominee.

Also, it is just really strange to have such strict rules for speech. I mean I can understand things like attacking people but this is borderline the type of things conservatives on redstate do and can create a situation where people are all just saying the same thing.....and that is boring...which means the rest of us might go elsewhere and ultimately the death of DU....which would be a shame because this is a really cool site with some really cool peeps!!

Hope I have not violated any TOS rules in this reply. Can say as I remember them all.....they are kind of like the terms of service agreements I post yes to without actually thinking about what they say or what they mean....

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Response to mentalslavery (Reply #95)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:12 PM

99. We don't have a nominee yet. This breaks my

 

heart and gets me angry I will miss him.

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Response to 840high (Reply #99)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:21 PM

153. thats a good point

it was a meaningless statement from manny at this stage of the game.....

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Response to mentalslavery (Reply #95)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:01 PM

193. You've hit on the same thing I was thinking about.

Simply saying "I won't vote for A" is not the same as saying "You should vote for B." Trying to equate the two is logically inconsistent.

Of course without the OP to read, we're all left guessing as to what he actually said. (Does anyone have that?)

Re: "Also, it is just really strange to have such strict rules for speech. I mean I can understand things like attacking people but this is borderline the type of things conservatives on redstate do and can create a situation where people are all just saying the same thing."

Agreed. If we all just say the same thing it turns into an echo chamber. Personally, I think most DU members can handle a bit of dissension & talk it out, helping each other come to rational conclusions.

Of course if someone is banned, those discussions won't happen. We won't be able to "talk someone down," explain the error of their ways, & bring them back into the Democratic fold. A person who was (probably temporarily) disillusioned with Democratic party will no doubt be even more disillusioned after being banned from a website that claims to be the "Democratic Underground." What was probably a temporary (& fleeting) feeling will become more entrenched, stronger, longer-lasting, & perhaps even permanent ... so the banning may end up resulting in one (& probably more) lost Democratic votes ... exactly what it allegedly was intended to prevent.

It's sort of like bombing people until they stop hating us. It's short-sighted, misses the big picture, & ultimately never works.

*waiting to be banned for honestly speaking my mind*

@TruthTeamOne

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Response to mentalslavery (Reply #95)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:43 PM

259. His ban will not be reversed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128085535#post28

I can only remember a handful at all, and and vaguely remember maybe a single reversal since DU3 came online.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:08 PM

96. Make trouble for Her Highness, get the ax I guess n/t

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #96)


Response to Name removed (Reply #124)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:59 PM

135. You miss Manny after being here for such a short time?

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:12 PM

98. I've been here since 2004

and I lurk waaay more than I post. I learned about DU while being held in a makeshift cell at Pier 57 in New York. I was one of over 1900 people who was arrested at the RNC. I lurk as much as I do because there are so many gifted, informative posters here saying what I'm already thinking, oftentimes better than I ever could. I'm saddened by Manny's TS, and I'm really concerned about the direction DU is going in. There are way too many Third Way and DINOs on this site now.

Manny, you are missed.

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Response to beltanefauve (Reply #98)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:19 PM

104. Same here

I've been on this site for a long time too. Many more before I made a profile and started to post. So many great articles and writers. Learned so much. Find that I spend more time on Reddit these days, strange for an old fart like me. Might have to increase that time. I hate seeing all these familiar names that I enjoy so much fall away. Now I will be waiting for the next ax to fall.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:18 PM

102. Manny is the Man!

and he is funny too.. I will miss him also.

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #102)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:46 PM

119. 'Moon them back instead' (from Manny's website)


We’re not winning the thing yet, but we’re making damned good progress.

First they steal your money
Then they moon you
Then they steal your message as candidates, then moon you once elected
Then you win
Unless you let them get away with co-opting your message
– Mahatma Goldstein (with deep apologies to Mahatma Gandhi and all sentient beings everywhere)

Hilarious. Find it here:
http://mannygoldstein.net

We'll sure miss you Manny.

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Response to sorechasm (Reply #119)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:50 PM

125. Honto desuyo!

sou desune! (That is the truth, yes indeed)

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Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #125)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:19 PM

151. Nice phrase for my memory bank.

For my (someday) trip to Tokyo.
Thanks yuiyoshida!

A friend of mine just left for a Holiday in Japan.

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Response to sorechasm (Reply #151)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:22 PM

154. Wow so did my Girlfriend

She went and watched STARWARS at Midnight and early the next morning flew to Tokyo. She will be there till after January 24th, with her family. Gonna miss Reiko, but I will find things to do over the holidays.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:24 PM

105. Manny will definitely be missed.

A superb satirist and chain jerker, this place has just become a lot duller.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:27 PM

107. A MannyGoldstein or a WilliamPenn OP or a 10 Dumbest Conservative column....

was a high light of being on DU. Now we've got none of them. DU is a less rich place to be because of it.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #107)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 07:23 PM

187. ^^ THIS ^^

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:28 PM

109. Now I'm pissed.

What'll I do for my Manny fix?



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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:30 PM

110. ...

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:32 PM

111. Manny...always fighting the good fight.

 

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:34 PM

112. +1 n/t

 

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:38 PM

114. Manny I will miss you,

I hope that you will be allowed to return.



I wonder, who is purged next?
The holy inquisition seems to be very busy!
What will it do, when most of us leave? There
will only be the sheeples left.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)


Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:40 PM

117. Are you fucking kidding me?

A ridiculous tombstoning.

Stay Well Manny!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:55 PM

131. Manny should be reinstated.

 

I think he is a great poster, who is passionate about genuine democratic ideals.

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Response to avaistheone1 (Reply #131)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:37 PM

158. I absolutely agree.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:55 PM

132. Keep 'em coming, wherever you may!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:02 PM

136. One of the strongest voices on DU and the biggest reason many kept coming back.

This was a stupid move on the part of the admin. Being in the bag for corporatists is one thing, silencing other opinions is another.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:05 PM

140. I always looked forward to read Manny's OPs. Such a big loss for DU.

Thank you for this thread, Bubzer.

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #140)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:18 PM

150. I'm sorry that it needed to be posted.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:05 PM

141. .

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:15 PM

146. My Political Views Have Evolved, Why Hasn't DU?

 

I'm a long-term lurker at DU, with nowhere near the number of posts which give one "celebrity" status around here, but I hope you can take a moment to consider my experience with DU.

I was raised Republican, voted for Reagan, but came around about the time they were investigating Bill Clinton's penis. But I still had some rather right-of-middle views, based largely upon my ignorant conservative upbringing. And then I found DU. Democratic Underground (and Bartcop) were instrumental in giving me the information I needed to change course, to recognize the injustice and mistakes of the Republican/Conservative agenda. As I spent more time here, my philosophies and beliefs about life and social justice have changed, I think, making me more Progressive. It is ironic that even as I move to the left, my party has moved more to the right.

I have taken in new information and evolved accordingly. Why hasn't DU? How can you continue to support a candidate who clearly represents the old, corrupted way of doing things? I cannot believe that I have evolved politically to the point where I am considered "far left," but DU is still supporting a candidate who has called herself a moderate, and acted even more to the right.

Skinner, and you other admins: I am calling you out! Can you take a moment to explain why you apparently support HRC? I understand the need for unbiased moderation, but really, you have displayed bias by your silence. To paraphrase some brilliant dude, "in situations of injustice, when you remain silent, you have chosen to side with the oppressor." So really, can you make a stand in support of your candidate?

It should be overwhelmingly clear by now who is the best candidate for President. To those of us who support Bernie Sanders, it is completely unfathomable why any good Democrat would support HRC. If we come across as shrill or overbearing, it is because of our shock. I mean, WTF, really? We have watched the conservatives using all manner of dirty tricks, including fabricating bogus "scandals," so it is very clear to us, and very disappointing, when one of the "good guys" like HRC uses those same tactics. I mean, Mr. Sanders was honorable and honest enough to defend HRC during a debate against the email "scandal." Yet when a scandal is fabricated against Bernie, she remains notably silent, and allows her cronies to wage a full-on media war against him.

We laugh at Trump because he is endorsed by Putin, but when the bankers endorse Clinton, some say it means nothing. C'mon, folks. If it walks like a duck...? Or do you prefer Occam's razor, ya know, the most likely explanation thing?

We have "free speech zones," in the guise of "candidate primary forums," where you aren't allowed to speak any ill will of the candidate. Such forums only facilitate cognitive dissonance.

And members who express their displeasure too forcibly are banned. All opinions are not welcome. There is a difference between Manny and your average conservative troll. By lumping him into their category and silencing him, you have shamed yourself and diminished the quality of DU. What a bummer. I guess I'm next....

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Response to Ned Flanders (Reply #146)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:27 PM

199. Well said, n/t

.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:17 PM

147. K'd to the M!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:18 PM

148. I always liked his posts

Sad he's gone.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:21 PM

152. I will definitely miss his sense of humor.

There do seem to be some seriously humorless people around here.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:27 PM

156. Merde.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:32 PM

157. Aw Fuck!!

They tombstoned Manny??? FUCK THIS BULLSHIT

Skinner you need to do some soul searching, brother.

Fucking WRONG. Think it through. You are hurting people that trust you.

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Response to navarth (Reply #157)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:04 PM

195. +1

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:41 PM

159. I'm confused with reason posted for his removal...

From the 'transpareny page', Skinner wrote: Say he will not vote for the Democratic nominee if his favored candidate does not win the nomination, and encouraged other people to do the same. From the TOS: "advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=176002&sub=trans

Does anyone have a copy of the offending post? Is saying one will not show up and vote the same thing as saying one will vote for a Republican nominee or for a third-party candidate? Can anyone post the actual comment that supposedly was the offending comment? It would be nice to know how badly or even if the TOS were actually violated, or if this was a heated misunderstanding and capable of being corrected this weekend.

Thanks

* and yes, I can understand how someone who is operating a website and in support of one candidate would like to downplay others who do not support the same candidate/issue, but I think this place would be pretty lame if there weren't for opposing views stirring up the conversation.

Who wants to discuss important politics with a mirror?





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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:41 PM

160. Manny you rock! DU will be a much less interesting place.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:52 PM

161. .

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 04:52 PM

162. I hate tattletales between peers.

I always have -- makes me feel dirty just thinking about those who try to get their peers in trouble.

I've seen the foulest personalities return from one 90-day suspension or another (regular schedule for some) & they're STILL HERE.

Just sickening.

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Response to pacalo (Reply #162)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:08 PM

196. +1

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:15 PM

165. Thank you for pinning!

It's going to drive the protected group invaders...nuts.

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #165)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:23 PM

166. It already is. nt

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:28 PM

169. Thanks for the pin

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:30 PM

170. Manny we miss you.

I always looked forward to his postings. Whether he was in his humor mode or his serious mode, he was always a pleasure to read.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:52 PM

173. Manny's wit is always worth listening to, and always appriciated-thank you Manny!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 05:56 PM

174. Shame on you Skinner

What you have done speaks volumes.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 06:24 PM

178. This place needs his input!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 06:28 PM

179. Another huge loss. This is garbage.

If you cannot be assimilated into accepting neoconservative positions. Your on a short rope around here.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 06:53 PM

182. Huge loss,this site needs his humor!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 07:11 PM

184. I'm finding his new home on the interwebs

because I enjoy his writing too much to just let it go.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 07:16 PM

185. Seems like the more a person contributes ...

... the greater the chance they'll be banned.

It certainly discourages me from contributing. I'll continue ranting on Twitter @TruthTeamOne.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 07:24 PM

188. Anyone know if Manny's posting on FB? If so, what name is he using?

I don't want to lose contact.

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Response to dgibby (Reply #188)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:58 AM

225. I saw him on Facebook under his regular name

We're both friends of Will Pitt on FB and he popped up on my page as a suggested friend. His page doesn't look very active though. I hope he keeps in touch. Will would be a good liason because he has many DUers as friends on FB. He even posted a notice of Manny getting banned.

Manny, you will be greatly missed and DU is the lesser for your ban. Find a new outlet for your writing, and let us know where we can continue to enjoy it. Solidarity, my friend.



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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #225)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:00 AM

233. Thanks so much!

Was happy to see that he knows we care about him.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 07:39 PM

191. I always clicked on a Manny post. I will miss him and his humor. n/t

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 07:42 PM

192. I hope Manny regains his posting privileges soon.



That also goes for the other long time posters that have been suspended over the heat of the primary.


Thanks for the thread, Bubzer.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:03 PM

194. MannyGoldstein is a commie pinko who has no place at DU!

 

Signed,

Third Way KamaAina

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:14 PM

198. Please Reinstate Manny.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #198)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:16 PM

205. +1

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:34 PM

200. let's just compare the siglines alone

many have L0onix's bug, or even a swarm thereof--this is all out of soldarity



and compare it to the little-kid nastiness of other DUers, deciding that grave-dancing against L0onix is so important they have to commemorate the joyous day in every post they ever made (since it's retroactive); they're *happy* they ran off another DUer, *proud* that they told teacher





everyone's lashed out on DU at one point or another for one reason or another (thanks so damn much, cheep beer) but this whole "I can have any one of you 'got'!" swagger is lashing out in every post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027460023

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:35 PM

201. Manny, you will be sorely missed!

Manny, I sometimes saved your threads for last because I needed a good laugh and knew that you could reliably be counted on to make me laugh.

I can't believe you have been taken away from this place, and I can't imagine what it will be like to go forward without you.

I do wish the admins would reconsider this policy, as it obviously has silenced many intelligent, thoughtful and entertaining liberal minds. Have you never spoken hastily and later regretted it? Is it not harsh punishment to be banished from one's community for what appears to amount to free-thinking?

Fortunately for me, in my heart of hearts I know I will always vote against the RepiglyCONs. They repulse me to no end. But can this place not allow for moments of passion?

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:53 PM

203. I expressed my feelings for and about Manny over in GD-P

 

on the thread they used to invalidly ban him. And it was invalid because he did not advocate voting for or against anyone. What I wrote came from the heart, and I shared it with friends and enemies alike, so here it is:

------------------------

What stands out about Manny for me is his refusal to be cruel or vindictive toward those who repeatedly verbally abused him. He is consistently kind and polite. That's character. And yes, Hillarians, it matters.

I respect and admire Manny and am grateful for the light, laughter, and humanity he has brought to this website. The admins should be grateful for what he gave to them.

Manny, if you're reading this, know that you are loved by many -- and enjoy it. Because you truly do deserve it.

--------------------------

Most of the Hillarians I seriously do not like, but even more for their gloating about Manny. They just aren't nice people.

Would love to read this thread, but the debate is starting soon, so, will catch up later.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:15 PM

204. .

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:19 PM

207. First DNC, and now DU...c'mon Skinner, I've read many comments here every election from voting Nader

to Manny's comments.

Uniting a party is not by silencing opposition, nor stretching the TOS rules to silence a long term member.

It's not losing face to reinstate him.

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Response to EndElectoral (Reply #207)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:32 AM

224. What exactly did Manny say?

PLEASE someone give me a link

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:37 PM

210. You bet

 

Some here will miss him the rest of us will not miss him we will be where he is still holding forth

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 09:47 PM

211. I'm not sure what happened

but I've always appreciated MannyGoldstein.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 10:46 PM

212. His satire vs. the Third Way was second to none

a true Progressive.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 11:00 PM

214. I baked a cake to present to the committee who silenced you, Manny...

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 11:08 PM

215. Manny appreciation! Start your own blog, Manny...

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 11:27 PM

216. Personally, I'm holding a 24 hour boycott in his memory. No posts from me tomorrow. nt

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #216)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 11:54 PM

218. If you really want to boycot, set your ad blocker to block ads on DU.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sat Dec 19, 2015, 11:52 PM

217. This place is lot less interesting without Manny. But thankfully, he has moved on to better things

and we are going to be able to read his wonderful wit elsewhere. Go Manny, one of DU's best, now DU's great loss.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 12:00 AM

219. just love Manny

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:32 AM

223. K&R

Gonna K&R this thread every time I log on.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 02:04 AM

226. Skinner: Amnesty, commutation, pardons now will save a lot of grief later

Take the high road, please.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #226)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:27 AM

236. probably will save the site, too

This place will be a ghost town when the 80 percent follow their best and brightest somewhere else, and the only ones left are the 20 percent. Picture tumbleweeds rolling down the street in GDP. A scraggy coyote lounging in the corner.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #236)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 09:07 AM

243. Imagine an eternity in the Last Post Saloon with only Sid for company . . . shudders. n/t

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Response to leveymg (Reply #243)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:48 PM

254. hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Dante' of sorts.

leveymg, are you over at jackpine's place? You must be there.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #243)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:58 PM

260. Sid won't be posting for a while. n/t

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Response to leveymg (Reply #226)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:58 PM

257. +1

There absolutely should be some form of reasonable pathway back to DU for those who may have overstepped, but are clearly Dems, such as Manny. Anything less is advocating a digital aristocracy, and is decidedly anti democratic IMO.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:03 AM

235. Gthanks Manny!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:19 AM

237. K&R. Been following Manny for years. NT

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:42 AM

238. Here is a post by someone who was not banned in spite of a long history

of incivility and just downright nastiness - someone who also said that they would support Trump over Sen. Sanders:

Douglas Carpenter (19,801 posts)

129. I pledge to support Hillary if she is the nominee? Do you pledge to support Bernie if he is the nominee?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=868787

-----------



131. Absolutely not
I'm a Democrat. He is NOT a Democrat. I wouldn't vote for him if you held a gun to my head, just like I would never and have never voted for a republican in my 38 years of voting. In fact in the minuscule chance that he was nominated I would never give another red cent to the party, knock doors, or phone bank for Dems.

Not in a million fucking years. And frankly, at least 50% of that feeling could be credited to his supporters who have spent the last several years smearing the shit out of real Democrats.

So no, never, ever, ever would I vote for him. Never.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=868804

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #238)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:54 PM

255. better get some screengrabs, she's purged all her past disloyal posts once people

started hotlinking them

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #238)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:54 PM

256. thank you for that.

I have just demanded a tombstone for this poster, who obviously has committed a capital offense.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 05:01 AM

239. I didn't know that.

Fuck that shit,
and the corporatist horse it rode in on.

Done.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 06:11 AM

240. Guess it has come to banning anyone who does not chant the Third Way party line

One by one, the ones with insight and who prompt positive, although sometimes heated, discussions are getting banned. Soon DU will be a one note chorus.

We love you and will miss you, Manny!

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 06:25 AM

241. + 1

 

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 10:14 AM

245. Miss you Manny!!

We are poorer for your absence here, for the wisdom and humor you would've brought to this site--but we are far, far richer for your having been here to kick our intellectual butts when we sorely needed it. Good travels, friend! Keep up the fight!



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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 11:01 AM

246. DU is not the same without you. Wish you well. n/t

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 11:14 AM

247. .



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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 11:34 AM

249. will miss him

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 12:58 PM

250. K&R

He will be missed.

I still can't believe this happened.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 01:36 PM

253. Loyalty tests - a very conservative thing. But this is war - Hillary vs. every decent human being

who knows we deserve and need someone better to represent us. She's got money and power. Apparently some people are attracted to shiny objects more than others.

We're all conservative now, I guess, thanks to the void left behind by radical Republicans. Wall Street moved quickly to fill that space with Hillary.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:02 PM

262. And DU loses another unique voice...

...due to overzealous policing of posts from, how to say this, *some* of the members here.

Others seem free to thumb their noses at the rules altogether.

It's one thing for the admins to have a preference. Bully for them (sincerely), they get to. But it should not spill over into biased actions.

At least two examples were posted in the last couple of days, of posts from DUers stating unequivocally they will not vote for Bernie Sanders if he is the nominee. One of them survived an alert and neither poster was banned.

Gosh. Imagine that.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 04:29 PM

265. As others on this thread have pointed out...

...this may come back and bite Skinner et al right in the ass.

Namely: although I recently donated for my star, I won't be doing so again. I'm quite sure I am not the only person who feels this way. I'll set up an ad blocker and do without the Advanced Search function (really the only extra that I use).

Yep, it should be interesting to see going forward how many star renewals there are. When their own internal polls show 85% of DU supports Bernie, and when the admins decide it's war on Bernie supporters, well, that can't end well.

Again, I will not donate to DU again. Period.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #265)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 05:49 PM

269. yeah, I've noticed that the condemnations are full of 10K+ posters, posters around since 2001,

posters known even for investigating scandals, and a whole constellation of donor stars

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #265)

Sun Dec 20, 2015, 06:08 PM

271. Well, Skinner will still have Discussionist left to pay the bills.

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 04:17 PM

275. I am still pissed at this!

Especially seeing: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=86773

DU obviously doesn't consider long-term posters who've voluntarily drawn thousands of comments and participation in threads that took time, thought and commitment to contribute to this site. As compared to the above poster whose only contributions have been mostly vicious and mean snarky replies. So many great, brilliant, witty and kind posters gone, while those who are obviously favoured are allowed to post blather day after day. I hope they quadruple their contributions to the site .... if money ever meant anything here, they'll have to make up for those of us who feel we've been used, and probably even much laughed at behind the scenes for all the many hours we spent trying to contribute interesting material to discuss as progressives - even though we probably were never on the same page we thought we were here. The joke is on all of us. Thankfully there's another new space, with over 650 members in just a few weeks, where many of those brilliant people are now contributing and doing real things to make a difference.

Manny deserved better. As did many others.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #275)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 04:20 PM

276. Say it, Sister

 

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Response to polly7 (Reply #275)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 04:29 PM

277. Why am I not surprised at who that poster was. On the payroll, as they say.

 

This site was never for progressives, or even liberals really. It just seemed that way when compared to Bush and Free Republic.

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #277)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 04:38 PM

278. It hurts me deeply to realize this site isn't what I thought it was.

So many of us spent years here happily participating thinking we were all mostly of the same mindset - that unacceptable is anything that hurts the planet and the people on it. I haven't spoken of the candidates here previously because I'm Canadian and consider it not my business ........ but fuck that, now. Fracking, war-mongering, a 'feminist' that doesn't give a fuck about the horror and death for so many women and children around the world that have suffered for the same belligerent, mindless, power-hungry need to control the resources of the planet as Bush's cabal - and only those who defend her with the slimy tactics they use here are immune to what others have been driven off for. It's obvious, and it does hurt. I can only imagine how those who've been thrown out here after a decade plus must feel. I'll probably be next. Who cares.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #275)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 04:51 PM

280. Someone posted in ATA about several posts like that. Supposedly, the difference was

that, in four words at the end of the post, MannyGoldstein said "Vote Bernie next November." Supposedly, that was telling people to vote for Bernie, even if Bernie was not the nominee." And encouraging others made all the difference, both for MannyGoldstein and LOoniX.

If it was ever on this board that it was okay to say I will never vote for Bernie, ever, but not to say Vote Bernie in November, I missed it.

I don't think people should be banned unless a distinction like that was made public first. I asked about that in ATA, not only for Manny but for others in the future.

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Response to merrily (Reply #280)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 05:04 PM

282. ..... and those four words could certainly be used in whatever context one chose to.

I'm glad that was asked ... I wish the second reply had been responded to. I know Manny and others who've been gotten rid of here are enjoying the new site - so many familiar people there who actually care about what I thought everyone did here - it's just the unfairness of it. It honestly doesn't even make sense to me, reading the original post and the comments re it being allowed to stay and rec'd by so many people. Done is done ... but I just stumbled across this again today and it still bugs me.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #282)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 05:07 PM

283. jackpineradicals.org went to over 500 posters in a couple three days, now over 650. Both numbers say

a lot about how many were bugged, esp.since jackpine was in the early stages of testing at the time. So do the numbers of recs on the several appreciation threads that were started the day or two after he was banned. Of course, the site is about helping get Bernie nominated, too.

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Response to merrily (Reply #283)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 05:19 PM

284. They sure do.

I feel bad, I haven't had time to do much reading there lately. A good friend lost her battle with cervical cancer four days ago, I've been back and forth to the city with her before her last hospitalization since just before Christmas. DU has been my homepage for so many years it's just habit to open it up first when I have a few extra minutes. jackpineradicals.org is what this place used to be for me - somewhere to spend a lot of time if I have it. I couldn't believe how many members are there now. That's so great.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #275)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 08:27 PM

293. +1

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Response to Bubzer (Original post)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 04:41 PM

279. I dont know why everyone is so upset. We have jackpineradical.org

 

Manny is over there. DU insists on poisoning itself so be it. Let DU experience the power of the market. Start getting Into the habit of posting over there. They want an echo chamber so bad. They can have one.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #279)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 04:57 PM

281. That he and others started jackpineradicals.org (plural--I do the singular a lot, too) does not

affect whether or not the banning was fair.

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Response to merrily (Reply #281)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 05:20 PM

285. Very true, but if DU wants to poison it's own well not much we can do about it

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #285)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 05:42 PM

286. That is not an issue.

I have no problem with people posting about it, if they wish.

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Response to merrily (Reply #286)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 05:45 PM

287. I dont have a problem with it either. Just as long as we can also see this is no longer the only

 

only sandbox in town so to speak.

I would love to shove the free market down the bullies and conseradems throats here.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #287)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 05:50 PM

288. We're all registered there.

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Response to merrily (Reply #288)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:15 PM

289. Cool

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #289)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:19 PM

290. I have no problem kicking the thread, though.

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Response to merrily (Reply #290)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:19 PM

291. :)

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #279)

Sun Jan 10, 2016, 08:25 PM

292. I like jackpineradical.org, and love that I get to keep reading Manny's posts...

along with many other past DUers. I'm trying to transition to there... but its gonna take some time. The set up is fairly different.

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Response to Bubzer (Reply #292)

Mon Jan 11, 2016, 12:41 AM

294. Jackpine Radicals is certainly a pleasant and positive site.

I especially like that the discussions are about long term issues.
Not overwhelmed by the horse-race mentality that the MSM thrives in, the hucksterism peddled by such as David Brock and FOX.

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