Mayor of Cologne says women should have code of conduct to prevent future assault
Source: UK Independent
The Mayor of Cologne said today that women should adopt a “code of conduct” to prevent future assault at a crisis meeting following the sexual attack of women by 1000 men on New Year’s eve.
Mayor Henriette Reker attended an emergency meeting with Chief of Police Wolfgang Albers and Wolfgang Wurm to discuss how to deal with the attack, where dozens of women were repeatedly touched and groped, with one case of alleged rape in the center of town.
“It is important to prevent such incidents from ever happening again,” said Mayor Reker, as reported in German by RP Online. “We have heard by now that they [the attacks] have occurred in other cities. This of course is not comforting to us.”
Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mayor-of-cologne-says-women-should-have-code-of-conduct-to-prevent-future-assault-a6798186.html
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coyote
(1,561 posts)The mayor can go fuck herself.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Has it occurred to you that the phrase 'code of conduct' might have different implication in other countries and other languages from those in the US? Nowhere in the article did I see any suggestion that the Mayor thought the victims were at fault - this seems to be entirely in your imagination.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)They sound to me more like common sense suggestions
LisaL
(44,973 posts)So a woman can no longer walk alone? She must be with a group?
What are they going to come up with next? Burkas for everyone?
Perhaps a big hoop, as long as your arms, because if YOU don't keep YOUR distance, you might have some responsibility for someone else assaulting you.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Then should these common sense suggestions apply to males also? If so, why do the "common sense suggestions" address females only?
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)I haven't heard any reports of assaulted women who weren't in groups. Certainly many of them were. No one can stay at an arms-length from strangers in a crowd, such as existed in the train station and in parts of the square.
Even the German press is mocking this up and down. It amounts to telling women that they can't go out.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Down
snooper2
(30,151 posts)LisaL
(44,973 posts)What if you don't have your own group?
I guess you can't go out without walking behind your husband covered from head to toe anymore.
Desert805
(392 posts)Nobody said you couldn't do anything. They suggested that walking with a group is safer than walking alone.
Having lived in some rough neighborhoods, I can tell you it's also true for males.
OMG, THE MEN WILL BE REQUIRED TO WEAR BURKAS NOW.
coyote
(1,561 posts)I have lived in Germany for the last 15 years and if you read the responses from Germans in Focus, they are pretty pissed off with what the mayor said:
http://www.focus.de/regional/koeln/pressekonferenz-im-live-ticker-oberbuergermeisterin-reker-und-koelns-polizeipraesident-zu-den-sex-uebergriffen_id_5190803.html
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Safety advise is not an endorsement of criminal activity, and I see nothing in the mayor's reported remarks to suggest that she thought the victims are at fault. Perhaps you could quote her statements to that effect if they were not included i the OP's article.
coyote
(1,561 posts)You think it's ok to get safety advice. And as an American, I understand why you think it's ok. In America, you are kept in a constant state of fear: carjackings, guns, police may kill you, terror terror terror, children kidnapped, Amber alerts, etc.
You don't have that in Germany at all. People feel safe here. You see women out by themselves at 3am by themselves walking home. My wife used to leave our son outside in a stroller when he was a baby while she did some quick shopping (surely someone would call the police on me in the US)
Germans see that the refugees, foreigners, or whoever these 1000 men were as guests in their country. Germans do not feel they have to change their behavior to accommodate these people in their own country. They never had to worry about their safety before and why should they now because of these 1000 assholes.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)1. I'm European. I just live in the USA now.
2. I know what Germany is like, though I have only visited rather than having lived there for any length of time. Yes it's safer than the US, but it's not like crime is an unknown phenomenon.
3. Of course people have had to worry about their safety before. Open a history book for heaven's sake. Perhaps you meant younger generations born after reunification?
4. Safety advice doesn't endorse a culture of danger.
5. None of what you write has anything to do with whether the mayor was blaming the victims, which I still do not believe to be the case. Nor do I think that reiterating basic safety advice is an endorsement of criminal activity.
I am in no way endorsing the misbehavior of these 1000 guys harassing women, but you're talking as if sexual assault was unheard of in Germany. This incident is newsworthy because it was concentrated in both time and place, which is new, and seems to be correlated with a wave of refugees, whose relatively sudden arrival in Europe has been controversial. Stories like this often get blown out of proportion or exaggerated for political reasons, but mass migrations do sometimes involve conflicting norms of behavior in the short term.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)attacking women. It's newsworthy because such a thing is entirely unheard of anywhere in Europe or in the US, it's horrific and it is shocking.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Especially the first sentence where I said that I in no way condone such misbehavior. That means I disapprove of it because it is bad. Is that sufficiently clear for you?
This is no different from what college fraternities frequently got up to until quite recently, as people pointed out the existence of a 'rape culture' that normalizes sexual assault.
coyote
(1,561 posts)You are totally minimizing this incident. The Cologne police chief disagrees with you and has said this is a "completely new dimension of crime." This was not a frat party.
The reason this story became newsworthy is because the police covered it up, and they had 90 witnesses to the event posting it on social media so they could no longer ignore it.
Of course sexual assault is nothing new in Germany, but this is a new dimension that has never been seen before.
As for the safety advice, I think most people take exception that they have to change their behavior to adapt to sexually assaulting men. So to you, if women do not stay away 1 meter away from strange men and are assaulted, then it's their fault. Foreigners should adapt to the cultural norms to the visiting country. Just because you can disrespect woman in your home country does not mean you can do so in the visiting country.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)that the mayor of the city also said foreigners need to adapt to local norms and that there should be more security. I reject your claim that I'm minimizing the gravity of the offenses.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to be raped if they celebrate in public?
If that's what she's saying, that's the strongest possible argument against allowing more refugees in.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)
RobinA
(9,893 posts)My brother-in-law, a man with a job that almost yearly puts him in Cologne on New Years Eve, as well as frequently at other times, doesn't set foot out of the hotel on that night because of the drunken rowdiness. So he might disagree with your utopian description.
hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Gunfire in the midst of that incident could have possibly resulted in a catastrophic event.
coyote
(1,561 posts)What if the girls or women do not stay 1 meter away from the men , is it their fault then that they get attacked? Blame the victim.
However many people feel women should not change their conduct at all. They did not ask to be groped or attacked.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)is frowned upon as blaming the victim these days. Better to express your freedom to act however you want and be injured or worse than to take precautions and be safe.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Safety advice re. crime is not a way to blame victims, but simply acknowledges the reality that crime is often opportunistic and that law enforcement can't always pre-empt it. You can be implacably opposed to rape culture or the normalization of sexual assault and still think it's a good idea to be risk-aware.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)So how is this advice (keep an arm's length way from strangers, walk in groups) going to prevent future attacks like this?
How do you envision these women should have been able to keep the men arm's length away?
Also, from what I've read in multiple reports, entire groups of women were attacked as they desperately clung on to each other and tried to defend themselves - so staying with their 'group' clearly didn't protect them either. Nor was the presence of witnesses a deterrent to their attackers - the area was heaving with people but these men still felt emboldened.
That Code of Conduct is an execrable response from Henriette Rekeryor.
Cologne needs a new Mayor and a new police chief as far as I'm concerned.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)suggestion? I can see it now:
Victim to police: "I was raped"
Police to victim: "why didn't you keep your attacker at arms length?"
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Maybe women should put a plastic bubble around themselves and walk around like that. Otherwise I have no idea how they should be able to stay an arm's lengths from any strangers.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Obviously women should stay behind closed doors,problem solved. 
raccoon
(31,111 posts)Need I say
But that was my question too; how do women keep strangers an arm's length away from themselves? Especially in a milling crowd.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)wear veils and/or stay home and go out only in the company of male family members.
It's like putting women in prison in their own country.
This is outrageous. Find the men and arrest them all -- all of them, every last one.
Outrageous.
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)so the mayor was off. It was not a situation where a couple or a group would help you since the men had a plan and carried it out by doing it with large numbers.
Scariest to me is that 1000 people were able to coordinate an incident like this thanks to social media no doubt.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)Whole groups of women were surrounded and assaulted and the presence of witnesses didn't seem to be any sort of deterrent for the attackers.
As for that 'arms length' shite - I don't trust myself to comment.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)attack by speaking as if dispensing "safety advice" is an appropriate response to this shitshow.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)onto a crowded platform?
Yes, she's blaming the victims. I agree with "common sense," but this is ridiculous.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Only a fool would take vague safety advice so literally. Should I conclude from your username that you keep your hat on in the shower?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)I need to join this place so I can put up my avatar of her. 
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Glad to know and understand you better.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)No, I don't own the hat! I worded that so poorly, I should be flogged with a wet noodle.
I just love this particular pic of AR wearing a cowboy hat that I want to use as my avatar. She was a proud Texan!
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)Exactly how do you get into the city to meet up with your 'group' under this 'code of conduct' - not to mention getting home again ?
Seems to me that her 'common sense' rules add up to staying at home for many women.
What century are we in ?
niyad
(113,329 posts)BLAMING THE VICTIM. how goddamned many times do we have to go through this bs?????
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)If she had I'd be condemning it along with you.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)She also practically said the women provoked the attacks because their celebratory behavior had been misinterpreted by those poor innocent gang rapists.
She should just put on a burka and be done with the pretense.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)The original German press article, linked to in the OP's article, also quotes her on the need for newcomers to the city to adapt to local norms of acceptable behavior and talk about the need for improved security at large public events. If you need to read this with automatic translation it's not very good, but her remarks are easy enough to understand.
http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/panorama/uebergriffe-in-koeln-frauen-sollen-armlaenge-distanz-zu-fremden-halten-aid-1.5669639
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Just a big misunderstanding.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Among the rules is to maintain an arm's length distance to strangers, to stay within their own group and can not be separated from this to ask in an emergency concretely bystanders for help and intervene as a witness or to inform the police belong.
Also there should be codes of conduct for carnival "from other cultures", "so as not to confuse here, what a cheerful behavior is in Cologne and has what with openness, particularly sexual openness has nothing to do". Whether can be excluded by such schemes such incidents, but is questionable, it said.
1) She's saying women and girls should follow rules "so that such things do not happen to them", the implication of which is that these sorts of things only happen to women who behave stupidly by disobeying the mayor's silly rules.
2) "so as to not confuse here"--there it is, she's attributing this to a cultural misunderstanding, her claims is that these men must have thought the women were okay with getting raped and were asking for it.
She's a rape apologist, much in the same vein as those who betrayed victims in Rotterham.
niyad
(113,329 posts)many times do we have to read about WOMEN changing their behaviour in order to avoid rape, as though THEIR BEHAVIOUR, and NOT that of the rapist, is to blame? if you do not understand that simple little fact, then you are, in fact, clueless, or being deliberately obtuse.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)I do not think it is a matter of women changing their behavior instead of men, and have never held that opinion. I can't help it that other people sometimes blame rape victims, but I am not one of those people and nor have I ever been.
However, since telling people not to commit rape (or crime in general) does not automatically cause rapists (or criminals in general) to abandon their criminal practices, I do think it's OK to give advice on how to avoid being a victim of rape (or crime in general), because would-be rapists (like other violent criminals) don't care about the law or cultural prohibitions against violence. So I think it is worthwhile to give advice on risk awareness etc. in addition to - not instead of - reminding criminals that sexual assault is never OK and will be investigated and prosecuted.
I have had this conversation with a lot of different people, and I do not understand the objection to basic safety advice. You can't eliminate rape culture by simply saying that it's unacceptable and expecting that criminals will just abandon the idea. If that was true we wouldn't have any murders - pretty much every culture has laws against murder and such laws date back thousands of years, yet people still commit murder despite the huge cultural prohibitions against it.
You can call me clueless all you want, but I have never once suggested that victims of sexual assault are to blame for being assaulted. I am suggesting instead that some advice on risk awareness can be helpful in spotting and avoiding sexual predators, because we don't currently know how to predict or prevent every would-be rapist from coming into contact with potential victims. Rapists and other sexual predators are typically not people who forgot or didn't hear that sexual assault is bad, but people who know that and try to do it anyway.
niyad
(113,329 posts)
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)She's acting as if she's too embarrassed to fully admit what has happened and her impotence to do anything about it. So, she is hoping to make a statement about something she may be able to influence.
Still, her dim-wittery is based on the fact the packs of attackers cannot be held at arm's length. They impose themselves and forcibly invade space -- by definition.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)You may recall that this same mayor was stabbed in the neck by an anti-immigrant protester while she was running for office, so I imagine she is anxious not to stoke xenophobic sentiment if she can avoid it. Especially considering the history of ethnic prejudice in Germany. I don't think she's naive, but rather to be diplomatic to avoid whipping up public sentiment that could result in riots or other attacks, which would likely result in harm to even more innocent people in addition to the German women who suffered sexual assault.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)She's not addressing a gang of rapists, but the general public. Don't you think that if she changed tack and denounced newly-arrived immigrants for bringing this problem to Germany with them, don't you think that a lot of innocent people might end up being attacked for the misbehavior of a relative few? Ultimately it is the job of the police to identify and arrest as many perpetrators of assault as possible.
I say 'relative few' because I very much doubt that men engaging in organized sexual assault make up the majority of immigrants in Cologne, a fairly large city, or even a large minority. Also, I noticed that some reports on this said '1000 men' in the headline, but elsewhere in the article described it as a group of 500. It certainly sounds like a large group of semi-organized sexual abusers, but as you know the media is also prone to exaggeration and sensationalism - the other day we were told about 300 armed men taking over a federal building in Oregon, only for that number to be revised to a few dozen later. It is worth bearing in mind that Nazi propaganda frequently leveled allegations of organized sex abuse of German maidens against Jews back in the 1930s; would-be culture warriors have every incentive to inflate and sensationalize such allegations today too. So I am a little skeptical about estimates of the crowd size until the police engage in some closer investigation.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)By gangs of rapists.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)will only serve to convince them that civil authority sides with the rapists.
There is no nobility to this lie; it's little more than an insult at this point. People are not sheep to be herded. Either the authorities deal with the problem or people will assume they have to rely on themselves for protection.
christx30
(6,241 posts)It'll encourage vigilantism. Get a woman to volunteer as bait for these events. She leads her attacker into an alley, where the attacker meets her 7 or 8 friends armed with clubs, who are there to 'take out the trash'.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)She's not being diplomatic, she's trying to keep her narrative going. That a woman cannot take a train on New Years eve and get sexually assaulted is her legacy.
Disgusting really. She needs to own it, and probably should resign.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)She advocated for refugees to come to the city, not rapists. Your implication seems to be that refugees are all rapists or something along those lines, a claim which I reject. Frankly your remarks remind me of Donald Trump asserting that Mexico is sending criminals and rapists into the US; I'm sure you're familiar with anti-Latino discrimination based on your username, so I am surprised to see you putting out essentially similar arguments. Perhaps you would feel more at home at Free Republic.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)If we are to confront rape culture we have to have the courage and integrity to confront all rape cultures, not just the convenient ones.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)I can't pretend that PC run amuck is allowing Muslims to destroy Europe if I don't use my definition of "code of conduct"...
WAAAAAAA!! : (
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)and I don't think your sarcasm is advancing the discussion or doing anything to bridge differences of opinion. I certainly do not believe Muslims are destroying Europe, nor do I think that people who are upset about this NYE misbehavior are making that claim.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)all over the internet...
and it was sarcasm
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)''They are all over the internet...' could mean multiple different things, but unfortunately I'm not a mind-reader and I don't like making random guesses about what you might have meant. Sorry.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)And since the Silvester victims were mostly in groups, the advice is at best insulting and at worst a blaming of the victims for being there at all. And by the way, at least one of the victims reported being blamed for improper conduct when she reported the assault to officials - at least that's what I read. There's a reason why there is fury among German women about this.
No one can remain at arms length from strangers in a crowd.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Victims were surrounded and attacked. Unless victims are able to develop force field to keep attackers at "arms length" mayor's advice is absolutely useless for the situation as reported.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)No woman would accept this advice being handed out. German women, and to their credit, most German men are not either.
What we have here is very, very bad advice which rubs salt in the wounds of those who were assaulted and robbed.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)To rephrase her: it's the women's fault for being raped because dark skin men cannot control themselves.
That's sexist and racist all at the same time.
I will say I am not particularly fond of the Obama administration's plan to permit wide immigration from these problematic countries.
Numerous polls and studies have shown these groups are OVERWHELMINGLY anti-Semitic (just what we need), have truly medieval beliefs toward religion (e.g., most support death for leaving Islam), and have archaic beliefs towards women, marriage, and homosexuals that make Liberty University and the average Republican seem down right progressive.
That's a bunch of problems we just don't need in the USA right now.
enough
(13,259 posts)Keeping the body and hair covered. Never celebrating in mixed groups outside the family. It should be fairly easy to come up with a few more rules.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)
LuvNewcastle
(16,846 posts)Yeah. That's a good girl.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)
eggplant
(3,911 posts)I think it is supposed to read "stop getting raped."
Ugh.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Personally, I don't see whats wrong with encouraging people to intervene and prevent sexual assaults, nor do I see issue with wanting sexual assaults to be reported to the police.
frizzled
(509 posts)We can talk about rape culture and patriarchy for white Western men, but not for Muslim men.
It's wrong to blame the victim if a white Western man assaults a woman, but it's okay if a Muslim man does it.
It's okay to blame on fundamentalist Christianity for attacks on abortion clinics, but not blame Islam for wide spread rape and assault and for terrorism.
Is there any other way to interpret this than the most blatant double standard imaginable?
How many people on the Left endorse this?
romanic
(2,841 posts)because its apart of thier culture and "they don't know any better".
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)criticize their behavior in any way no matter how heinously they act. 
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)been complaining about for YEARS. Islam gets a pass no other religion would get - Bill Maher was absolutely right. Of course, these same people then assume - with zero evidence - that if you think Bill Maher was right, you must support Donald Trump - I got this accusation thrown at me in the last 24 hours for saying Maher was right. Your question about how many on left endorse this? I would suspect most would say they wouldn't but I've been watching the tip toeing around the subject for over a decade. Nothing but double standard bullshit.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Thanks. I was beginning to gnash my teeth.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)This is a must watch.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Why isn't she talking about those who committed crimes?
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)And that's all I'm going to say about that.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Even though we know exactly what you're implying.
And the mayor made it very clear... there is NO indication that this event is in any way tied to refugees.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Although marginalizing rape and sexual assault to be Kaufmanesque is pretty tasteless.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)If you have a quibble, its with the Mayor of Cologne, not me.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Now they have been told to shut up again.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)And you provided a link which says this;
" Mayor Reker also said a “better explanation” to asylum seekers was needed about the meaning of the annual carnivals.
“We need to prevent confusion about what constitutes happy behaviour and what is utterly separate from openness, especially in sexual behaviour," she said.
The attackers were described as North African and Arab appearance by the police. The Mayor has said that not all of the attackers were newly-arrived refugees"
That's not NO indication, in any way. It's saying attacking women is a matter of cultural confusion and not all of the people who did this are newly arrived. That's very different from what you are saying.
She's sounding like a Republican.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Did police actually make any arrests at all?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)North Africa and current refugees from what I read.
If this is how the second generation acts, it's not a ringing endorsement for bringing in more refugees.
And this happened in three cities, so it was a somewhat coordinated crime spree.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I think it was men who committed the crimes... regardless of whether one maintains the pretense that it's problematic to state as such.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)in the real world where women have to be a little, and sometimes a lot, careful when they are out and about. To me, it isn't worth getting attacked to make some point about how I shouldn't have to change my behavior. YMMV, good luck.
lostnfound
(16,180 posts)Questioning whether that's an adequate solution to an expanding criminal mindset.
It's not ideal.
There are a number of awareness-raising tools that point out the burden that this places on women throughout their lives. Some cultures are better than others at creating a safe space for freedom. One is not free when one has to worry about staying close to one's companions to avoid assault. It's like the difference in freedom between a safe neighborhood where you don't even bother to lock doors and your kids can roam freely versus one where you have to walk quickly and purposefully and stay vigilant so you don't get mugged and you dare not be out after dark.
The former situation is just a better quality of life. Some don't even realize anything exists except the latter.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)there. I am a female who likes to travel alone from time to time and there are sometimes things I would like to do but can't because I am alone and don't feel safe doing them. In a perfect world I would be able to do them without worry, but the fact is it just wouldn't be a good idea. I try to make the best of it and move on. Until I find the equivalent to Popeye's spinach that will make me stronger than any man, it's not going to change.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)In this particular case, women seemed to have been doing nothing else other than being out in public.
They were surrounded by groups of men and attacked.
How would mayors's proposed code of conduct prevent such attacks?
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)
Squinch
(50,955 posts)TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 5, 2016, 11:12 PM - Edit history (2)
The perpetrators, whoever they are, need to be identified and charged to the full extent of the law.
That would be an effective message.
ETA: According to the article, some at least are already known to the police so they have a starting point:
"The Mayor has said that not all of the attackers were newly-arrived refugees and had already been known to the police, as reported by The Local."
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)so that women could walk the streets safely at night.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)
24601
(3,962 posts)to walk the street at night, taking away the right to be there may stop a rape on the street but doesn't fix the problem of being able to walk the street at night. It is one form of trading freedom for security and doesn't address identifying and stopping a rapist who could move to a different time or place.
While police could step up presence and enforcement, they just aren't everywhere all the time and very often can't prevent a crime.
If only there was something, perhaps a portable device that would compensate for the average woman's physical disadvantage, that a woman could carry and employ in order to deter rapists or, when deterrence fails, defeat one.
No doubt there will be resistance here to the idea of permitting women (and men) defend themselves from criminals, including rapists.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)trillion
(1,859 posts)
jonno99
(2,620 posts)
Warpy
(111,270 posts)We are not responsible for being raped, not ever, no matter where we are or what we happen to be doing.
7962
(11,841 posts)But keep those doors wide open and this is only the beginning of what will be a very bad year for Germany and the rest of Europe
niyad
(113,329 posts)least surprising, even by some progressives.
7962
(11,841 posts)Because she was in the wrong place, hanging out with the wrong people, dressed the wrong way, out at the wrong time, etc.
How is it so hard to understand that the only time its ok to have sex with a woman is when SHE says its ok to do so? I understand rape isnt usually done by the man for sexual reasons, but I'm talking about the people who would say the above excuses.
Its never made sense to me, as a guy, why people would feel that way.
niyad
(113,329 posts)men's behaviour by blaming the women. handy little thing for the men.
niyad
(113,329 posts)he has the right to assault her by grabbing her nipples. and, the woman-hating piece of slime in maine who thinks that, since women have the right to abortions, men have the right to assault them. and these are elected officials.
7962
(11,841 posts)I wonder if they'll be RE elected
niyad
(113,329 posts)first made that remark)
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)That is one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard of. What kind of man sees a woman nursing an infant and the first thing on his mind is grabbing her nipples? What a pig! 
niyad
(113,329 posts)niyad
(113,329 posts)niyad
(113,329 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Another one who probably hates women because they wouldn't give him the time of day. 
niyad
(113,329 posts)passes for his brain.
I keep wondering what skeletons are in his closet.
treestar
(82,383 posts)
SunSeeker
(51,569 posts)jonno99
(2,620 posts)Very good.
jmowreader
(50,559 posts)I don't know about y'all, but I think if someone stabbed ME in the neck I'd be doing everything I could to make sure it didn't happen to anyone else.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)her fault, so I hope she won't change her behavior.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)After all, wasn't she supposed to stay an arm's length away from any strangers?
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)One would think she would have taken the attack as an indication of the worry of people who knew more about the problem than herself. Nope.
She has expelled herself from public life. Any government employee who does not tell her to resign is at best negligent or more likely complicit.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)at arms length. It's even more pathetic that a victim such as herself would spout this nonsense.
jmowreader
(50,559 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)As in, do not sexually harass or molest women, and especially NEVER commit rape.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Democat
(11,617 posts)As long as it's not white male Christians doing the attacks, then there are plenty who will excuse them here on DU.
niyad
(113,329 posts)it is only about women, after all.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Specifically those that have the potential to stir up right-wing reaction to the migrant community
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Not a frenzy of Islamophobia and xenophobia.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)If only our government would do more to keep the media from upsetting people.
pampango
(24,692 posts)In his mind, of course, if something can "stir up right-wing reaction to the migrant community", it is golden.
T_i_B
(14,738 posts)I'm sure it will bring to mind recent sex grooming scandals in Rotherham and Rochdale for some in this country.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10886485
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)niyad
(113,329 posts)T_i_B
(14,738 posts)I was last in Rotherham on Saturday to watch Rotherham Titans get stuffed by Cornish Pirates in rugby union.
niyad
(113,329 posts)T_i_B
(14,738 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 7, 2016, 03:59 AM - Edit history (1)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/02/world/europe/reckoning-starts-in-britain-on-abuse-of-girls.html?_r=2Also, when DU was down recently I visited Discissionist and was struck by how many right wing Americans consider themselves experts on Rotherham because they've read some race baiting rubbish on a far right website.
I'm not downplaying Rotherham's many problems by the way. It's a town with enough troubles even without this sort of crime.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)ys.html?smid=pl-share&_r=1
Very few rape apologists and plenty of outrage to go around from both men and women. It restored my faith in humanity because so many people saw this for the great criminal act and social problem that it was.
niyad
(113,329 posts)Page Not Found
We’re sorry, we seem to have lost this page,
but we don’t want to lose you.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)If it doesnt work you can always Google as a last resort. Here, try this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/world/europe/coordinated-attacks-on-women-in-cologne-were-unprecedented-germany-says.html?smid=pl-share&_r=1
Hope that works! A lot more encouraging than it is here! 
niyad
(113,329 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Isn't it refreshing!
niyad
(113,329 posts)Desert805
(392 posts)Or something.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)NO woman (or man, or child) should have to ever worry about being raped.
"They don't know better! We have to respect their culture! Westerners do bad things too!" is NOT an excuse. Not from affluenza patients, not from the poorest, most oppressed person on Earth.
Desert805
(392 posts)terrible things, but the fact is, life often has other plans.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)If simply 'common sense precautions', why were the specifically directed towards women rather than men and women inclusively? Are men to deny common sense safety precautions? Or something...? 
Desert805
(392 posts)I mean really. The mayor who made the statements is a woman who recently suffered a violent attack herself.
Perhaps you should ask her why she spoke directly to women. I bet it's because she hates them & wants them all in burkas. Or something.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Hyper-PC crap like this hurts immigrants in the long run.
trillion
(1,859 posts)shouldn't be held responsible.
I can't find a barf smiley...
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts) 
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Looks like she doesn't follow her own advice and have a code of conduct.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)> Mayor Reker was seriously wounded herself in October when she was stabbed in the neck
> Looks like she doesn't follow her own advice and have a code of conduct.
If she admitted that rapes & assaults were actually the fault of the immigrants concerned
(i.e., rather than the victims who she chose to blame instead) then she would be wide open
to everyone saying "Told you so!" ...
Being so publically wrong is a truth that few politicians can face.
ETA: She was stabbed by a man "who reportedly had anti-foreigner motives amid
escalating tensions about the refugee crisis". Finding out that such tensions are
justified would be too much to accept ... much better to shift the blame elsewhere.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Sure, no politician likes to be embarrassed, that could well be a factor as you say. But can you think of any previous instances of German politicians denouncing an ethnic minority, and how that turned out?
Nihil
(13,508 posts)... between "German politicians denouncing an ethnic minority" and "German politicians
stating the truth of an event".
To use your example, her approach is akin to "other German politicians" blaming the
"ethnic minority" for encouraging Kristallnacht by having windows ...
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Now she seems to be on the defensive about immigration. Yet, the stabbing indicates that her advice about conduct is crap. And she still goes around blaming victims even after being a victim. I have had personal experience with someone like this. She was a horrible person who liked to blame victims of domestic violence for being in their situation, she mocked people with mental health issues, and admitted to being a domestic violence counselor while being a victim of domestic violence. I have no patience or tolerance for such people.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)I don't get these arguments how sexual assault is a woman's fault. The argument is essentially making the case that men are stupid, dangerous animals without self-control and that the women didn't behave appropriately around those dangerous animals.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)" Better educate the immigrants what's unacceptable behaviour (sic)."
Or maybe better educate all males what's unacceptable behavior, regardless of country of origin... as it seems even nationals are capable of, indicted for, and incarcerated for violent assaults on women.
bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)Her advice might be good for German women visiting Middle Eastern countries but she is talking about German women living in Germany. That to me is totally unacceptable.
If men from the Middle East and North Africa come to western countries for economic gain or to escape the hell holes that their countries have become they must abide by their host country's laws and respect their customs or face arrest and deportation.
Germany has been incredibly generous with these refugees and this is how they repay them?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)They come to these very generous European countries and while their way of life is not luxurious, it is still a hell of a lot better than the hellholes from where they came. However because they are not as successful as most members of the host country (and have done nothing to deserve it) they act out resentfully and criminally. They are determined to turn their host countries into the same shitholes that they left.
Europe is so beautiful. I am so glad I had a chance to travel throughout when it was safe and we didn't have to worry about this kind of thing.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)I think her administration will be addressing that very poor choice of words.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henriette_Reker
German women criticised Reker's advice to separate themselves by an arm's length from strangers, following the mass sexual assault in Cologne on New Year's Eve 2015.[7]
Well, that took like no time at all.
http://www.dw.com/en/twitter-storm-as-cologne-mayor-suggests-women-stay-at-arms-length-from-strangers/a-18962430
Wow.
Amaya
(4,560 posts)German's should embrace this great cultural enrichment!
Ace Rothstein
(3,163 posts)niyad
(113,329 posts)sarcasm thingy?
Ace Rothstein
(3,163 posts)A University in Colorado briefly listed that as a last resort a few years back in advisory to deter rapists, they were serious.
niyad
(113,329 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Women should form roving bands and pepper spray the hell out of men who attack women. That kind of conduct.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)They're the ones doing the attacking, so they should be the ones restricted in their movements.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The more things change, the more they remain the same.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)to avoid danger is not a freaking sin. I'm a grown man and my father still tells me to watch my surroundings, watch my car, watch my hotel, etc. every time I see him.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts) 
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)This isn't a common sense sort of thing like avoid dark alleys or getting into cars with strangers. Code-of-conduct seems to be to not go outside in public spaces if you're a woman. Not to mention the idea of maintaining arms length distance is just ridiculous. First it's nearly impossible in many situations, and it hardly seems effective to preventing rape.
The usage of code-of-conduct for women really does comes off as blaming the victims. As if walking in a crowd is something that they shouldn't do. I'm amazed that there are people here defending this language and attitude.
