Why did senators who asked Franken to resign hug him afterwards?

[Joe941]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/7/16746770/senate-floor-al-franken-resignation-speech

Seems fishy to me. You think he is unfit to serve and yet give him a hug goodbye? Also why would you hug a man you are asking to leave because of groping? Weren't they afraid of being groped themself? Somerring is fishy here.

[democratisphere]

1. Symbolic kiss (hug) of political "death".

[Hortensis]

14. A political death none have immunity to.

Who'd understand this miserable situation better than his colleagues who are part of it, others whose careers can be just this fragile?

Our women senators decided to grab this moment in history, to make it a turning point instead of a transient moment, and most of our male senators followed. And also very much to draw a clear, moral distinction between the choices voters have to make.

Franken's the unfortunate who has fallen on his sword, of course, but his resignation supports what they -- and he -- are trying to do.

He is one of them. Anger set aside for hugs and tears? No surprise here.

[LisaL]

16. Yes, it's very clear.

I am supposed to go out and vote for someone who might just be a mere accusation away from having to resign?
Why even bother, then?

[Hortensis]

32. We each answer that for ourselves, of course.

Some don't recognize the realities of very imperfect democracy because they're young and haven't thought out it (and still aren't).

Others can't accept them because only something a lot more like perfection (at least in others) will satisfy them. Eternal disappointment in others is just built into these poor souls.

I think for most, though, the biggest factors are a plain old combination of ignorance and the most satisfactory emotional reaction of the moment, elbowing aside what should be thoughtful consideration. Nothing's more common, after all, than the intellectual laziness and dishonesty that allow complex situations to be redefined as satisfying, one-dimensional, black and white pictures so we can imagine ourselves wise and virtuous.

This isn't an argument for low standards of behavior among politicians, btw, just one for higher standards for understanding among us.

[mn9driver]

45. Exactly. I enthusiastically voted for Franken.

If I vote at all next fall, it will be with considerably less enthusiasm. I’m not alone. I expect my vote to count; not be negated by a symbolic charade that was decided by DNC brainiacs who will be sitting around next election night wondering where all the voters went.

[Lotusflower70]

77. I hear you

I voted for Senator Franken and I feel betrayed that he was forced out. I am appalled at how horribly it was handled. My enthusiasm for the upcoming farce of an election is deeply lacking. I grieve the loss of Senator Franken.

[tazkcmo]

78. You're not alone.

That sentiment is higher among non-DUers I know.

[marybourg]

79. The Republican Party

thanks all of you.

[tazkcmo]

82. Thank the Democratic Party.

Also, I'm Catholic and was raised on guilt so you're poor attempt won't make a difference.

Let me be clear about me. I in no way expressed or implied I would be voting for the GOPee. Having said that, you need something better than "We're not Republican." to motivate the lowest participating democracy on the planet to vote.

[suegeo]

90. The first time Franken was elected

I voted for him, donated money time, etc.
Franken sat through that re-count and MADE SURE my vote counted.

All to be taken away by stupid stupid "leaders" who fell for a republican rat fuck. And, worse, these dumb mofos take away the investigation that might have exposed the rat fuck. Yeah, I know, fat chance with the autocrats giving Nunes a pass.

I am beyond exhausted putting up with all the disruption the coup of 2016 has brought.

And now, I gotta donate money, time to try an protect a senate seat from republican asshats in minnesota, some who wanted to take away meals on wheels. In a time when republican and mother russia vote fuckery continues. F.M.L

Plus Erick effing Paulsen doesn't have town halls and I have worse-than-useless "representation" in Congress.

[Joe941]

2. BTW I'm not endorsing the story's premise that he made himself a victim.

Just read it and didn't realize he hugged the very senators asking for him to resign.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

3. Like the kiss from Pacino to Fredo in the GODFATHER 😠

[BannonsLiver]

4. DC runs on bullshit.

[LisaL]

9. Sure does. Demand he resign for groping then go give him a hug.

If they believed him a groper, why would they actually want to give him a hug? Yet according to the article they stood in line to do it.

[LisaL]

5. Hugging someone accused of groping that they just demanded resign for that groping?

Makes total sense...

[Mike Nelson]

6. Al is a...

...better man than I am... if I were ousted fro the Senate due to some accusers saying they were grabbed during a hug, I would not hug the Senators asking me to resign.

[LisaL]

7. Per that masterpiece of an article, they hugged him.

Even stood in line to do so.

[janterry]

8. He took one for the team

(which I don't believe for one minute. He is better ON the team)

[4139]

10. Resigning in the COMING WEEKS ...2 or 152 weeks? The earliest I would guess...

would be if Roy Moore wins, Franken might resign the same day Moore s sworn in.

More likely he wants to fight...

[4139]

12. Adding on to he wants to fight.... remember rope-a-dope?

Letting your opponent beat on you till they tire?

Resigning in the ‘coming weeks’, letting those who want to beat on him to get it out of their system.

Roy Moore took huge hit and fell in the polls.... Moore is outlasting the beating.

Franken May also outlast the beating

[DesertRat]

76. He'll stay at least until the gov. appoints his replacement

And that person gets settled into the job. He's not going to leave the seat open during the crucial tax bill vote.

[IADEMO2004]

11. Twisting the knife

[spooky3]

13. That is Onion-like in how horrifying it is.

So insensitive.

[Cicada]

15. Franken left to bolster election chances not because he is bad

Laws impact millions, sometimes billions. That is far more important than one small man named Al Franken. Franken in the Senate clouded the difference between Dems protecting women and Repub hurting them. We need that difference to be as bright as possible, not clouded, to maintain our lead among women so we can wine elections so we can pass laws which help millions, maybe billions. That is true even though we love Al Franken.

[LisaL]

17. His seat could end up in Republican hands.

So that would really help women's rights.

[Demsrule86]

19. Brither Tweeden and Ms. Christianity (not a bible between them would like that)

This was put up job. And the Democrats fell for it...so angry.

[Cicada]

29. Your answer does not address the question which was asked

The question I addressed was how could Dem Senators hug Al Franken while kicking him out. The answer is that the Dem Senators think Franken leaving will lead to more Dems elected which is more important than Al Franken. Your worry about electoral consequences from Franken leaving May be valid. But my answer addressed a different point: how can people both kick him out and hug him.

I am not competent to accurately predict whether your concerns are valid but I can point out that there are tens of thousands of elections nationwide and that there are elections in many future years. It is possible that one senate seat is less important than possible advantages in all those other elections. For instance Republican Jeff Flake has said that the election of Roy Moore will cost Republicans much more in other elections than his victory in this one race will be worth. I happen to agree with Flake and I happen to agree with Senate Dems. But I conced my expertise is basically zero.

[Demsrule86]

22. They won't have a replacement for Conyers...this is a put up job and it is open season on Democrats.

We have to wait nine months until the election...Democratic seat. You all are being played...and obviously the real scandals won't hurt the GOP...but taking the high road when they attack one of our won will destroy our chances of being elected...Franken's seat could decide the Senate...this is what this was always about...and mark my words...I doubt McConnell will seat Frankens replacement so we may get more shit from this oh so stupid piling on by Democrats .

[groundloop]

27. Franken leaving did zero good. DEMANDING an immediate investigation would have done more.

It would have done more good to expose the repubs behind this for what they are.

[LisaL]

28. He did demand an investigation.

But his colleagues demanded he resigned instead.

[Cicada]

34. Jeff Flake thinks it can be better to lose a senate seat than tarnish the party image

The senate dems want a super clear difference in party images, Dems protecting women, Repub hurting them. Franken makes that difference less clear. That kind of difference in party images influences tens of thousands of elections around the nation, now and in future years. Forfeiting one or two seats is less important than in bolstering that difference in party images. Jeff Flake knows that Roy Moore winning one Senate seat is a huge loss for Republicans overall and Senate Dems have a similar view about Franken. They still love Franken. We all do. But it is not hard to see that one small man and the small chance of losing one senate seat does not add up to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Al needs to get on the damn plane flying out of Casablanca just like Ilsa had to.

[LisaL]

35. Dems protecting women, Repub hurting them?

Are women equal or are they some sort of commodity that needs to be protected?

[mythology]

41. Both, or do you like Black Lives Matter movement means blacks aren't equal?

Women should be treated like equals, but I don't worry the guy walking down the street might sexually assault me. I'm statistically less likely to die from domestic violence, I'm not paid 80 cents on the dollar to my female counterparts.

[Cicada]

65. Of course they need to be protected

Men have power over women in many settings and obviously abuse that power. We can do things to help, such as by permitting lawsuits, preventing non disclosure agreements blocking disclosure, preventing pay discrimination etc

[Cicada]

67. Your question is actually irrelevant

We have elections. Dems can get a higher share of the votes if people view Dems as less tolerant of bad male behavior than Repub are. Franken leaving helps sell that story. Dems winning elections is good for the world. The answer to your question does not change that.

[LisaL]

69. Explain to me why Trump got elected and got a majority of white women to vote for him?

[Cicada]

70. 62% of white men voted for Hillary, only 53% of white women

More women voted for Hillary than voted for Trump overall. Hillary also did much better among white women than among white men.

I believe the 53% of white women who voted for Trump did so primarily because they are racists who incorrectly believe that immigrants commit more crime than native born people do, who incorrectly believe that immigrants lower the income of non immigrants, who believe that a high percentage of Muslims in the US hurt others here, who incorrectly believe that minorities are on the whole lazy and mooch off the rest of us and get unfair advantages in our society compared to non minorities.

But I could be wrong about that.

[LisaL]

71. Trump still got majority of white women to vote for him.

Doesn't seem they cared much about accusations against him.

[Cicada]

74. 47% voted against him

that's better than 38%, the percentage of white men who voted against him

[highmindedhavi]

86. You are correct

I wish I express my thoughts as clear as yours.

[RobinA]

94. Nonsense

The average voter doesn’t know Al Franken from a hole in the ground, much less what party he is from. This whole mess will superseded by some other mess and forgotten in 6 months.

[better]

63. The high-minded idealism you express is laudable. And catastrophically naive, in my opinion.

It's a safe bet that all of us here (who aren't trolls) are on the same page about wanting to highlight that our side is for protecting women and the other side is against protecting them. On the surface, your argument that Franken makes the difference less clear makes sense, and in a sane world, that might actually justify what was done here. But we do not live in a sane world, and the longer we keep acting as though we do, the sooner we are going to reach the point of no return.

Let's unpack your "one small man" argument for a moment. First of all, the problem is that the one small man in question happens to also be the one small man who had the vision to spot Goliath's (Sessions) weakness, and cast the stone on target. Secondly, the reaction was vastly disproportionate to the situation.

I would draw your attention to how we responded to Patton in the wake of the infamous "slapping incident". He was publicly excoriated, passed over to lead the invasion of northern Europe, and required to apologize for his misdeeds. But he wasn't kicked off the battlefield. Instead, he was employed to confuse the enemy as to allied invasion plans, before eventually being given command of the Third Army. Notably, we did not deny him air support as he stormed across France to lead the relief of American troops in Bastogne during the Battle of the Buldge, and ultimately invade Nazi Germany. That would seem to be somewhat of a validation of War Secretary Henry Stimson's assessment that retaining Patton was a poor move for public relations, but the right decision militarily.

The fact remains that our enemy in this war (and it is a war and we are their enemy, whether or not we view them as ours) is looking for any way they can to take our generals off the field, and in handling this the way we have, we have given them a roadmap to do so with minimal effort or cost. If we do not recognize the danger of that course of action and adjust course, we should expect it not to stop at "one small man" or one senate seat.

[tavalon]

92. This. Just this.

[RobinA]

93. I Think You Forgot

the sarcasm thingie. What you say may sound good in theory, but recent events have proven it not to be the case. The average voter doesn’t give a crap about some senator from Alabama. Trump proves every day that bad behavior is not a bar to political success.

[tazkcmo]

80. Cool story

but why bother if an accusation is enough to lose the candidate you voted for? As far as hurting women, the Democratic Party was stronger with Franken than with out. I have spoken to several people that have re-registered as Independents since all this and are very angry with the party.

I predict a GOPee landslide in 2018. Gerrymandering, voter suppression and Gilibrand.

[Demsrule86]

18. I am so angry...I don't care. He should have turned his back and walked away.

[JimBeard]

30. I am too and it seems that this has deminished anything Trump does.... I just don't care as much.

[treestar]

20. Especially since he is in theory going to grope them

I would not have blamed him for backing off and refusing.

[LisaL]

24. Tell them to keep their hands to themselves.

[jimlup]

21. It was a strategic move that i'm not comfortable with

Not the hugs... I wouldn't put a great deal of gravity on the hug. He is a colleague. I am aghast at how the dems handled this but the calls for resignation were political calculation. It may well backfire. As a dem I hope it doesn't but I miss Al and think it was a great loss.

[Demsrule86]

25. Not 'may' backfired but will backfire...they won't appoint a replacement for Conyers...nine months

until the next election...and the votes in the house have been very close...This is a shit show...time to call the GOP on their bullshit and fight fire with fire.

[ollie10]

39. Will these "high road" lynch mobbers complain about the citizens of Conyer's district

being disenfranchised for all this time?

Don't hold your breath.

[Demsrule86]

50. Of course not...they play right into the GOP's hands and then act all self righteous

and talk about the 'high road' ...should be called the losers road. No one cares that they play 'fair' (was not really fair) and threw their own under the bus...just means more attacks and the pure among us can opine how about how pure we are (losers).

[LisaL]

26. Of course it was a political calculation.

We have to have moral high ground.
Which I am sure will keep me warm if I have to sleep under a bridge.

[Katinfl]

49. High moral ground?

Where did that ever get us? Sure didn’t help in Nov. Franken’s resignation will not get us another GOP voter. Seems like Dems just don’t know how to stick together and fight. After awhile you get sick of continuing to support them.........but I still won’t give up.

[Duppers]

36. Already has backfired.

Four of these senators have now written to me for donations. I told them to take a hike and why.

[JI7]

23. To Thank Him for the Lack Of Competition from him during the 2020 Primary

[Demsrule86]

47. The GOP wanted the votes...thus Franken had to go...to get their death agenda through...

The Dems who are running for president or support someone else were thinking primary...what about the Country people? What about social security and Medicare...Dreamers? And I have no faith the McConnell will seat Franken's replacement. Franken should announce he will not run for the next election...since the cowardly governor won't appoint a person who can run in 20, there is no reason for Franken to resign now...of course watch the GOP make an heroic or lack there of effort to get him out before the tax bill comes back.

[ananda]

31. They're all dead to me, so fuck it.

nt

[Ninga]

33. I thought it was as his staff,,,,nt

[Chasstev365]

37. Like the parent who tries to hug their kid after spanking them to

relieve their guilt!

[ollie10]

38. Back Stabbers

[Captain Stern]

40. I wish he'd say every single one of them groped his ass during the hug. nt

[LisaL]

43. Or his waist.

[Glorfindel]

44. I wish he had spat on every one of them, except it would be a shame to waste the saliva

on that collection of backstabbers. Their reward is waiting for them.

[dalton99a]

42. It was love

[TheCowsCameHome]

46. Probably setting him up for more accusations.

[mentalslavery]

48. Ohhh...they knew the charges where BS....

but that picture of him looking like a sexual predator was just too much...the optics where terrible and they knew he was "taking on for the team"

[IronLionZion]

51. So typical for immoral liberals to put their arms around a sexual predator!

those senators certainly looked traumatized by his perverted touch. They probably went to a pizzeria afterwards with Hillary.

[Bettie]

52. Because they are giant, flaming hypocrites

nm

[LisaL]

54. No, they supposedly believed the accusations that he was a groper. Then they hugged him.

Would you hug a known groper?

[treestar]

59. And he does all his groping in public

during hugs!!!!!

[LisaL]

62. Exactly.

[Bleacher Creature]

55. I can't believe it took 53 replies before someone said this.

Franken's a fantastic guy and Senator, but he didn't live up to the high bar we as Democrats need to set for ourselves in the Age of Trump (and Moore).

[LisaL]

58. I hope the rest of them can live up to that high bar, or there won't be many of them left.

[spooky3]

66. Because most of us do not agree about his failing to live up to that "high bar."

The allegations should have been investigated; what has been made public is VERY weak, IMHO. If more evidence had been presented and witnesses found to be credible, etc., then maybe more of us would have agreed about the "failure."

[lark]

56. This is pure political show and Gillibrand, Harris and Sanders just fucked up bigly!

at least Sanders is pushing for an ethics hearing on drumpf, have heard squat about that from Harris of Gillibrand. Still, I forgive none of them and will not contribute to any since they are traitors to the truth. Rush Franken out, do the repugs a HUGE favor, and act like they are so pious and pure without ever even listening or attempting to get to the truth. They are all dangerous people and have doomed dems from here forward for their own personal advancement.

[Blaukraut]

60. Wait until they turn on each other.

It'll be interesting to see who will come out the winner of this battle for the nomination for Dem pres. candidate, or if it will all be for naught.

[lark]

64. Disgusting selfish behavior!

They are all dead to me, my letter writing, my calling and my checkbook/credit cards. I was hoping for Harris, but no more. Adam Schiff is my hope now.

[rzemanfl]

57. They wanted to retrieve the knives they stuck in his back. For next time. n/t

[Pachamama]

61. It reminds me of when the contestants on The Bachelor or Big Brother

...all kiss and hug the person who was just voted off the show and is leaving...it’s such a farce, such a lie and acting like they care...especially when they had to do with their departure!!!

[Joe941]

75. I've always thought the same.

[Voltaire2]

68. Because they like Al, they wish this hadn't happened, and they are sorry he has to go.

[Thor_MN]

72. They wanted their knives back.

[LisaL]

73. Sounds about right.

[guillaumeb]

81. Brutus hugged Julius Caesar. eom

[peggysue2]

83. Because . . .

Franken reluctantly fell on his sword. I'm still not convinced there's a greater good in respect to Franken's resignation. And I was put off by Gillibrand's somewhat cavalier attitude about ending the man's political career. I like Gillibrand but felt she was dead wrong on this one.

Btw, I thought the Democratic pile-on was indeed fishy, supporting an earlier suggestion that it was political theater, that Franken had telegraphed his decision in advance. After the Senate floor speech, admissions were made that in addition to the moral consideration, there was a political calculation. The group hugs only further support that idea.

Still convinced we lost a damn fine Senator. Lawrence O'Donnell summed it up: don't ever expect fairness in politics.

Unsettling thought but do doubt true.

[LisaL]

85. Life isn't fair.

However, making him resign without an investigation isn't going to lead to any greater good.
What happens the next time someone is accused? By a standard set by democrats for Franken, that someone must resign without any investigation.
I wonder how many of them are going to be left.

[doc03]

84. They are two faced cowards

[3catwoman3]

87. If it had been me, I would have stood tall with...

...my left hand firmly behind my back, and my right hand extended for hand shakes, just to make a point. And maybe the middle finger of my left hand extended.

[Amaryllis]

88. Many liked him and considered him a friend, but felt they had to join the lemmings anyway

because....moral high road? We can't be like the Rs, so even the appearance of impropriety must go? This explains really well:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029953599

[left-of-center2012]

89. I've read ISIS hugged gays before shoving them off a roof to their death.

It's like saying
"This isn't personal,
we just want you gone".

[RealityChik]

91. GUILT!

Plain and simple.

[milestogo]

95. I came in here looking for a punchline.

Maybe they wanted him to grab their asses?