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Sat Dec 9, 2017, 01:45 AM

"By Deserting Franken, Democrats Show They Dont Understand Gender Politics, or Maybe Politics in

General"

snip..."It’s hard to fathom that, as public policy disasters surface from all directions and engage decent Americans of both parties in a desperate game of whack-a-mole, the Democrats decided to draw their “line” at the behavior of Senator Al Franken. How different this week might have gone if Democrats had asked their base about the moral high ground instead of taking their cues from Republicans.

But Democrats didn’t ask us, and by deserting Senator Franken, they confirmed they don’t understand gender politics or much about sexual misconduct in the workplace at all. There is no greater disservice to women than creating an equivalency—a completely false equivalency—between the behavior of which Senator Franken is accused and the accusations against (Senator-to-be?) Moore, which include abduction and assault of a child. And yet this is the the false equivalency affirmed by Senator Gillibrand when she called for Franken’s resignation."

snip

..."It was awfully sad to see Senator Gillibrand, my hero for her past work on sexual assault policy, lead the charge to get rid of Senator Franken. Instead of using the Franken case as an important moment to open a national dialogue about how to define, view, and classify different types of sexist behavior, harassment, and sexual misconduct, she just took the Republican bait and equated Franken with Moore.

The Franken episode reveals that Democrats are in the dark about gender politics at this rare moment when the topic of women in the workplace is actually trending. While we seem to have a vague understanding that sexual misconduct is rooted in power dynamics, we’re still not connecting it to pay equity, or access to opportunities. These are core issues that ensure men have the power that frankly creates the conditions for harassment and misconduct."

snip

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/by-deserting-franken-democrats-show-they-dont-understand_us_5a2aa209e4b022ec613b8146

I wish I could paste the full column here but we have a 4 pgh. limit. The author raises a LOT of good points, IMHO.

38 replies, 6717 views

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Reply "By Deserting Franken, Democrats Show They Dont Understand Gender Politics, or Maybe Politics in (Original post)
spooky3 Dec 2017 OP
INdemo Dec 2017 #1
spooky3 Dec 2017 #2
flamingdem Dec 2017 #4
JI7 Dec 2017 #6
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2017 #26
Lucinda Dec 2017 #3
leftstreet Dec 2017 #5
JI7 Dec 2017 #7
JI7 Dec 2017 #8
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2017 #10
orleans Dec 2017 #12
spooky3 Dec 2017 #20
Lotusflower70 Dec 2017 #27
SHRED Dec 2017 #9
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2017 #11
orleans Dec 2017 #13
scarletwoman Dec 2017 #14
JI7 Dec 2017 #15
spooky3 Dec 2017 #28
keithbvadu2 Dec 2017 #36
kiranon Dec 2017 #30
world wide wally Dec 2017 #16
bluestateboomer Dec 2017 #17
Buns_of_Fire Dec 2017 #18
Awsi Dooger Dec 2017 #19
Amaryllis Dec 2017 #21
spooky3 Dec 2017 #22
Amaryllis Dec 2017 #23
Denzil_DC Dec 2017 #24
dalton99a Dec 2017 #25
madaboutharry Dec 2017 #29
Lotusflower70 Dec 2017 #31
OnDoutside Dec 2017 #32
pansypoo53219 Dec 2017 #33
AntiFascist Dec 2017 #34
spooky3 Dec 2017 #35
spooky3 Dec 2017 #37
George Eliot Dec 2017 #38

Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 01:51 AM

1. If in 1973 there were Democrats like we have in

Congress today,Nixon would have served out his term and would not have been forced to resign

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Response to INdemo (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 01:54 AM

2. no doubt!

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Response to INdemo (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:41 AM

4. Jeebus you're right

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Response to INdemo (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:09 AM

6. you would have had a few democratic politicians resigning because they had a traffic ticket

or shoplifted gum or someone claimed they saw them do something because there is no way you can criticize nixon if you have such a record.

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Response to INdemo (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:22 PM

26. So true!

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:06 AM

3. knr

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:07 AM

5. DURec

Excellent article

Thanks for posting

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:18 AM

7. great article, and this doesn't even touch on how most of the accusations are BS

but even accepting it is not it shows how fucking stupid and fucked up this whole thing was.

how fucking clueless they are.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:24 AM

8. and there is NOTHING MORAL about it at all, in fact it's the total opposite

Al Franken is one of the biggest reasons we have Mueller right now. he is one of the best in asking questions and getting answers or exposing the bullshit.

Franken is the one who GETS IT about sexual abuse and it's why he responded the way he did.

i am so fucking disgusted by this whole thing.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:34 AM

10. 👆🏾 This. n/t

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Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:47 AM

12. i feel the same way! n/t

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Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 08:39 AM

20. So true

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Response to JI7 (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:26 PM

27. Agreed 100%

My Senator did that. He got to Sessions. The fact that they can't see this is payback is so frustrating to me.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:27 AM

9. Fantastic...thank you

 

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:37 AM

11. Wow, looks like some great analysis. Post-game, unfortunately.

Though maybe there WILL be enough massive outrage to force a turn around.

Anyway, I thought I heard HuffPost was one of the media that jumped on the Sensational Accusations Bandwagon right away? Which sucks.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:49 AM

13. k&r. thanks for posting this n/t

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:49 AM

14. Ham-fisted, counter-productive, and stupid, stupid, stupid.

I don't think it can be emphasized enough how utterly stupid the railroading of Franken was.

More excerpts:

Every day—literally every day—brings a flood of moral outrages too numerous to count. On just one day last week, while the President shared neo-Nazi videos and joked about nuclear war, Republicans passed a tax bill no one had read that will throw 13 million fellow Americans off health insurance, raise taxes on poor people, hurt charities, and add a trillion dollars to the debt. They eliminated protections for 2 million acres of public land so oil and gas companies can move in, lifted the ban on killing hibernating bears and wolf pups in their dens, gifted the NRA by relaxing gun rules, and even moved to allow importing dead elephants . Plus, they made plans to kill net neutrality, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and even the caribou in the Arctic. Oh, and they threw their support behind a pedophile running for the Senate.

These are just the stories I had time to follow. I shudder to think of what I might have missed, but I know this much: Many Democrats view this brutal assault on our institutions, our environment, and on the most vulnerable people in our society not just in political terms, but in moral terms too.

If this were a movie, the Democrats would have such an embarrassing abundance of material on which to launch an effective counter-offensive that they would scarcely know where to begin.

So, what did they do? In a baffling move, Democrats instead decided that the moral affront of the week was Al Franken, and that they would lose the moral high ground to Republicans if they simply waited for the Senate Ethics committee to investigate his behavior.


Thanks a lot, Gillibrand and the rest of the lynch mob caucus. You've really been a big help.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:54 AM

15. it's a STEP BACK for Women's rights . all so some can feel morally pure and superior

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Response to JI7 (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:28 PM

28. A driver of the fight for women's rights is JUSTICE, but this action cut off all chance that justice

would be served. Justice does not mean believing or disbelieving accusers or the accused; it means taking accusations seriously and determining the facts (and the law in some cases), and then rendering a fair judgment and appropriate and proportionate consequences. It means checking for reasons for bad motives and interference by others. This did not happen. So it at best undermines the arguments of those who say they are concerned with justice for women.

I think Ethics Committee investigations would likely be less than pure especially with Republican dominance in the Senate, but Sen. Franken was willing to take his chances with it--because it was his only option, and, as he said on Thursday and as I believe--he knows who he is and that he did not do wrong he had not already acknowledged (the photo). Anyone truly concerned with justice who did not already have much stronger evidence than the public knew about should have supported the investigation regardless of political fallout.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 11:18 PM

36. "all so some can feel morally pure and superior" - Purity of ideology

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:33 PM

30. Agree. Franken doesn't fit the profile forced on him

Now men will not be alone with a woman in professional/work/political/religious/medical/you name it settings unless another woman is present a la Pence. It is a big step backwards to go after Al Franken who fights the good fight and should have a hearing and his accusers come forward under oath. Gillibrand and Harris and the rest went too far. Need leaders who know when they are being played and this lynch mob was played by the Republicans.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:59 AM

16. I couldn't agree more.

Gillibrand did more damage to #me too than any Republican could have imagined

There is still time to correct it if she acts soon.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 04:20 AM

17. K&R!

Exactly!

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 04:30 AM

18. There's a thin line between passionate advocacy and zealotry.

For one thing, it tends to mess up your aim and make all targets look alike. I suspect most airport control tower personnel can tell the difference between an incoming Cessna 150 and an incoming B-52. But hey, they're both airplanes, right?

I anxiously await Sen. Gillibrand's and the other Democratic Senator's coming denunciations of President Pussygrabber and Probably-Senator Molester. They should really be something. Any day now. Any day now...

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 04:36 AM

19. Roger Stone is trembling

 

They took the high road...we'll never get it back

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 01:51 PM

21. I am going to send this to both my senators as well as the others who pushed for resignation.

Anyone else in on that?
And ask them to reconsider.
Is there still a way? I keep telling myself Franken could still change his mind, but in order to be effective in the senate, he would need the support of his colleagues.

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Response to Amaryllis (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 01:54 PM

22. I think that is a great idea. I'm glad so many DUers liked this piece as much as I did.

There's been a lot of good (and bad) writing about the whole mess, but I thought this was a particularly insightful piece. Maybe I should write to the author and tell her.

My Senators (Kaine & Warner) both refused to join in the public call for his resignation, though Kaine (like Klobuchar) said he spoke privately with Franken prior to the announcement.

People can go to their Senators' websites, or text RESIST to 50409, and a bot will help you with the rest.

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:11 PM

23. It was a great piece and hit it on the head as far as how I am feeling. Didn't stop

me feeling dismayed, depressed, etc etc but I always feeel better if i can see an action to take, and this says it better than I could. I call Wyden and Merkley both the day before Franken's address, and asked them to push for an investigation rather than resignation. I think this is the first time I've disagreed with Merkley and rarely with WYden. I truly feel that Franken was a major cog in the Russia wheel as far as it continuing to move forward.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:17 PM

24. People generally don't like the feeling they're being pandered to.

They also don't like to feel that their intelligence is being insulted.

The current tactic seems to be aimed at a Venn diagram of a set of those who aren't too bright, intersecting with a set of those who care about women's issues and sexual politics in their broadest terms.

I'm glad to say I've known a number of strong women in my life. Some have called themselves feminists. I haven't known many at all who were stupid to the extent they couldn't recognize careerists and lip service.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:20 PM

25. Great article

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:32 PM

29. This article states exactly how I am sure many feel.

The women in the senate are just as guilty of living in a bubble as any other closed group. They were talking about what to do about Franken in the women's restroom, for Christ's sake. Why weren't they out talking to their constituents and hearing what democrats around the country were thinking rather than thinking about themselves? Which is what they were doing.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 02:36 PM

31. Thanks for posting

I really appreciate it. I feel that my Senator was thrown under the bus rather quickly. It was a rush to judge. And I called Senator Gillibrand out for it. I can still respect her work on sexual assault and feel that she handled the situation with Senator Franken wrong. Some people don't want to accept that. They treat her as a saint and I am not having it. I said it was an attention seeking power grab. And some called me sexist for it. I would have said the same if a man had betrayed Senator Franken this way. Attention seeking can apply to both genders. She wants a clearer shot at 2020 and I think this hurts her ultimately.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 03:12 PM

32. Surely there's SOMETHING that could be done to reverse this travesty

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 04:28 PM

33. publicans are at war, democrats playing tag.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 05:14 PM

34. K&R Gillibrand has disrespected the #metoo movement....


opening the door for right-wing operatives to help bring down any male progressive based on false equivalency and non-investigated accusation.

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Response to AntiFascist (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 9, 2017, 06:32 PM

35. I am sure they can use very similar strategies to bring down female candidates.

It may not deal with alleged sexual misconduct, but they can simply line up a few people willing to make allegations on other grounds that might be troubling to some progressives.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sun Dec 10, 2017, 06:15 PM

37. The authors name is Prof. Amy Wolfcale. She deserves credit.

Last edited Mon Dec 11, 2017, 01:13 AM - Edit history (1)

You can also tweet to her if you go to the linked Huffpost article. You’ll see the tweet icon.

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Response to spooky3 (Original post)

Sun Dec 10, 2017, 06:43 PM

38. Best articulation I've seen. Tweeted Franken NOT to resign. It's sick. What's ethical anymore?

Cantwell and Murray also no on importing drugs - that's ethical? Also Heitkamp voted no. Most other female dems voted yes and so did some Rs like Grassley of all people. I just can't believe it. And would someone tell me just what was ethical about that? Looks like WA only blue state to vote against it. This whole thing just makes me sick.

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=115&session=1&vote=00020

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