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Mon Jul 27, 2015, 11:49 PM

Why are two of our very best progressive posters, William Pitt and Kentuck, leaving?

The thread below is just too long and busy for me to waste the rest of the night sorting through it all. I have missed most of what's been happening here the past few days, so could somebody enlighten me.

TIA

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Reply Why are two of our very best progressive posters, William Pitt and Kentuck, leaving? (Original post)
Elwood P Dowd Jul 2015 OP
villager Jul 2015 #1
7wo7rees Jul 2015 #4
villager Jul 2015 #5
AwakeAtLast Jul 2015 #109
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City Lights Jul 2015 #135
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question everything Jul 2015 #40
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Response to Elwood P Dowd (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2015, 11:50 PM

1. What? Kentuck left *too*!? When the hell did that happen?

 

Jesus, what's this place turning into?

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 27, 2015, 11:57 PM

4. A mess. A sad wreck. And if you think this is bad

go check out the Octafish thread climbing close to 500 responses since Friday and the attacks being leveled in that ugly thread.

Just sad.

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:00 AM

5. Well, putting the finishing touches on turning an "Underground" into a center/right message board...

 

...will doubtless serve certain interests very well.

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Response to villager (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:39 AM

109. You've said a mouthful

in very few words.

I am noticing, for sure.

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Response to villager (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:28 AM

135. !

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Response to villager (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:46 AM

263. You nailed it

 

Certain interests have helped turn DU into a center/right message board. Sad to see...

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Response to villager (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:49 AM

268. + 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!!

 

Exactly !!!

Democratic Status Quoderground.


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Response to villager (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:56 AM

277. There are still a lot of progressives here but many have been intimidated into remaining

quiet on issues that the nasty posters reside in. Works the same way in general society.

What I can't figure out is why nothing has been done about a very small number of persistently nasty posters who seem to be here to enforce narratives or are so bored out of their wits they have nothing better to do than irritate those who they disagree with?
Especially since DU does not seem to be growing using this tactic?

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Response to newthinking (Reply #277)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:26 PM

334. I can only assume that is what the admin wants

Those small numbers are being given control for some reason.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #334)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:36 PM

432. +1 nt

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Response to zeemike (Reply #334)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:20 AM

467. +1,000,000 n/t

 

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Response to villager (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:21 PM

332. Yup, and using the same center/right tactics

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Response to villager (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:47 PM

347. The c-righties apparently drove woomewithscience off as well.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #347)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 04:07 PM

389. Woo, too!?

 

Jesus. This place is becoming steadily less "read-worthy" all the time. Which, one assumes, is exactly what's intended.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #347)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:29 PM

420. That is depressing beyond words.

 

I was a huge fan of woo's and he inspired me to start making the occasional long, footnoted post.

Damn, this place is going straight to hell faster than I had imagined. It HAS to be by design.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #347)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:48 PM

424. WHAT?!! Oh no...

This is horrible news. Really fucking horrible. Not surprising I guess, given what woo had to deal with here on a daily basis. One of the best DUers ever, gone. FUCK.

Off to read the linked thread...

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Response to villager (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:51 PM

377. +1000

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Response to villager (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:04 PM

418. You WILL "root for" the approved laundry,

 

policies and associations be damned.

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Response to villager (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:34 PM

431. Bingo.

Once upon a time, I used to come to DU for thoughtful discussion, insight and analysis you couldn't get anywhere else on the net. DU was always years ahead on news stories. Years.

Now it's nothing more than a yahoo board full of gossip about recent fluff stories, with rules against some right wing views. I myself have been thinking about leaving for a long time now. I haven't, but I only pop in mostly to visit the Canada board, the rest I might have a look as a rubbernecker, but that's about it.

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:08 AM

123. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7005752

I think this is the ugly thread you are referring to? Octafish is a magnificent beautiful and deeply patriotic DU member. His contributions and research work are of extreme value for those that strive to be well informed.

It boils down to simple bullying. And I enjoy a healthy debate with all internet bullies and I always engage with respect, as "the other side" is as passionate about their beliefs as I am about mine. It does get tiring fighting the same battles over and over again for decades, but the price of Democracy is eternal vigilance. And as my hero Frank Zappa has said, it's impossible to change somebodies mind. They will agree with you only if they already agree with you.

But on facebook, mostly, if I see something egregious and flat out wrong, I will not let it stand without offering a significant opposing viewpoint. And I never do personal attacks or loose my temper. I respond to conservative thread on FB bitching about liberals and often my post ends the discussion entirely. No comebacks or attacks. I posted my viewpoints on Senator Chris Murphy's FB about the Iran nuke deal yesterday, and I'm still the last post out of maybe 450 as of this morning. (If I got that right)

Bernie responds like that, too. He's always respectful to his opposition and doesn't do personal attacks and sticks to his issues. The recent MTP is an example of Bernie in action. I think there's some Ghandi channeling going on with this method, which I consider the most effective in moving the ball down the field.

-90% Jimmy

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Response to 90-percent (Reply #123)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:55 AM

276. Maybe I should quit calling everybody "Sewer Rats"

 

Seriously ..Great post !!

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:26 AM

133. The Octafish appreciation thread also turned into a sewer?

I'm not sure I even want to see that.

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Response to merrily (Reply #133)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:31 AM

140. Octafish threads always turn into sewers.

His/her? fan club seems to hate all the truth and information posted - they try everything to derail, insult, mock - like a pack of super-hungry hyenas.

Why do hyenas hate progressive posters and info?

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Response to polly7 (Reply #140)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:33 AM

143. Are you saying fans of Octafish are hyenas?

I posted on the thread early on, when it was just some compliments and +1s.

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Response to merrily (Reply #143)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:35 AM

149. No, by 'fans', i mean those that follow from thread to thread derailing

all that information posted with the usual garbage, personal crap. It's disgusting to watch.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #149)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:39 AM

154. Ah, stalking trolls or trolling stalkers. Take your pick.

I've never had a problem with Octafish. Even helped me out with some info when I asked a question.

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Response to merrily (Reply #154)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:40 AM

156. Octafish is a treasure here.

I'm always amazed at all the information he/she? posts, I could spend happy hours reading it all.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #156)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:30 AM

229. Octafish and I insisted on keeping the Bush's truth posted on DU since the early days.

Derision for that has increased in recent years, with Octafish taking the brunt of it, while I have been dealing with health issues.

Octafish is a TRUE PATRIOT in every sense of the word.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #140)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:51 AM

238. They don't like to be discomfited because they are, at core, apologists for the status quo

 

n/t

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Response to polly7 (Reply #140)

Fri Jul 31, 2015, 09:57 PM

501. Colbert: "Truth has a liberal bias."

I have served on too many juries recently where the alert was meant to silence the poster. Many people have complained to Skinner, so I have been told, regarding the DUers who troll DU looking to alert of DUers whom they do not like. It is a real shame that we are losing some of the best.

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:22 AM

24. The place is exactly the same. Communities lose and gain members all the time

And, considering his history with both voluntary and involuntary exits, I am sure Pitt will be back in due time.

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Response to Godhumor (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:37 AM

75. this place is NOTHING like when I joined in 2001

the rancor, bitterness, and insulting-nature of posts made a significant turn for the worse several years ago.

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Response to DrDan (Reply #75)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 05:25 AM

79. The community grew. Very quickly.

I've been around since 2001, as a lurker originally, as well. Every once in awhile we get one of those "What is this place coming to" things around a high profile exit or banning. We also have periodic wonderings about the quality of influxes of new members during presidential election times.

As far as I can see, we're following the same pattern as always.

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Response to Godhumor (Reply #79)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:24 PM

408. "The community grew. Very quickly"

 

Especially after Rush launched Operation Chaos during the 08 primaries. We have had a large influx of people who know exactly where the line is and constantly run right up to it, but never over. They are doing the same thing now they did in 08- turning dems against dems.

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #408)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:32 PM

412. Nah, don't buy it

I would venture to guess the percentage of trolls to real members has always been about the same. In-fighting for supported candidates is seen on every political discussion board, including FR, and they're generally commenced by earnest supporters of those candidates.

Sure there are disruptors who stick around far too long, but that is also present in an virtual community.

TLDR version, I buy Operation Chaos disrupted DU about as much as I buy the Anonymous is the only reason the election want stolen in 2012, which is not very much.

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Response to Godhumor (Reply #79)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:49 PM

413. I remember a better DU too

before all the swooners and alert trolls - the fucking ASSHOLES I refer to - no, it's nothing like it was

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Response to Skittles (Reply #413)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:54 PM

425. Me too. n/t

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Response to Skittles (Reply #413)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:38 PM

433. it's very different now

anyone who says it's not different had cranio-rectal inversion during that time period (or maybe currently), or are just gaslighting.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #413)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:20 PM

483. No, it certainly isn't the same DU n/t

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Response to DrDan (Reply #75)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:31 AM

102. DU today is what we made it...

Behaviour at DU2 (and DU1) was ultimately guided by the involvement of the Admins, whether directly or through instructions to the mods.

Behaviour at DU3 is completely guided by us, the users. If DU is nastier, more rancorous and more bitter than it was, it's because we've allowed it to become that way, by continuing to not hide nastiness, rancor and bitterness.

That toothpaste is out of the tube, and I don't know if there's a way to get it back in.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:33 AM

103. ...

 



hfrn

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:40 AM

111. Behavior at DU3 is unguided, with the exception of the trolling-quashing by MIRT

and the occasional ban hammer by admins.


Juries can not set community standards, juries can only return a straw vote on a post highlighted by the alerter.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:22 AM

130. The simple truth.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:31 AM

141. Agree to a point. However, hiding a post, in and of itself, doesn't do much when any member can

unhide it. Hiding a post only makes the board look nicer to non-members. The penalty for frivolous alerts is too lenient in my opinion. Can't hide for a day? PM a friend. Done.

And jurors seem to think their only function is to vote to leave and occasionally add "discuss," no matter how RW or nasty a post is.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:00 AM

239. You would certainly know

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #239)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:13 AM

243. As would you...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #243)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:31 PM

308. Speak for yourself

I object to the royal perogative "we" when you mean "you."

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #308)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:42 PM

315. I just did...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:37 AM

258. Is that toothpaste?

 

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Response to JEB (Reply #258)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:17 PM

329. Yes, invigorating mint, if I'm not mistaken?

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:38 AM

260. What happened is the bullies have taken over now that there are no mods to keep them

civil. In other words, DU3 put the foxes in the hen house and they won't stop until the last chicken is dead. When that happens and they finally own the henhouse, they will get hungry and go in search of another henhouse, but this one will be abandoned except by a few rats and mice that will take up residence.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #260)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:40 PM

313. ^^^This^^^

And it has been going on for quite some time.
Most here know who the usual suspect here are.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #260)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:59 PM

427. You've always been one of my favorites. Spot on. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Reply #260)

Fri Jul 31, 2015, 09:58 PM

502. and roaches (unless they take the roaches with them)

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:23 PM

303. +1000. And some go to ghoulish lengths to make things personal just

to get posts hidden. I still miss one long-term member, The Magistrate, who was told to go take a nap by someone on this very thread (edit-now with 2 posts hidden already from personal attacks in this thread) when he was correcting one of the many bizarre conspiracy theories. I miss him. He was brilliant, and I loved his writing.

That was when I used to come here more in a read-only mode, but I noticed old vendettas and thread stalkers harassing people I liked. I appreciate your input, Sid Dithers of DU , because it has helped me see who to take seriously and who to disregard.

The conspiracy theories really dumb this place down. For people who like to spend more time reading than commenting, it's a waste of time to read through someone's vendettas from years ago, general rudeness, and then the ridiculous conspiracy theories. Your smilies and comments have been a great source for me.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #303)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:43 PM

345. I miss The Magistrate terribly as well--smart as a whip, entertaining as hell, and NICE.

Never saw a LOOK AT ME/GBCW post from him, either.

I hope he's OK.

I wish he'd return.

I, too, have little patience for conspiracy theories and half-baked websites. "Consortium News" is close to the top of the "Stupid Websites to Avoid" list.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:51 PM

378. Oh, the irony. nt

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Response to Maven (Reply #378)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:20 AM

473. I don't think there is anything ironic about it. DU3 has allowed everyone's worst impulses to be on

 

display, no side or faction is immune or can say they are the holy ones, even if one side or another in a particular dispute may not be "as bad" as the other. And we all have our opinions on who that is.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:26 PM

410. And a big problem with the hides...

 

are that you just have to make on click and you can read what was said. Hiding is about as effective as a judge instructing a jury to disregard the last statement. The damage is there and can't really be undone.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #102)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:30 AM

476. And it is pretty much EXACTLY what I feared back when DU3 started and it was explained.

 

And the problems are many starting with, most baiting comments against Jews, Women, LGBT, African Americans, etc. are not hidden. I hope it's because the vast majority of folks weren't familiar enough with the concept of baiting and the various kinds of slurs and hidden meanings to understand what they are adjudicating, but I am sure some of the non-hides are latent (or not so latent) bigotry too.

I know that LGBT in particular did not find the Mod system to be fair to them, but that could have been fixed. I am not seeing a whole lot of activity in the LGBT group so its not like the jury system is seen to be paradise for LGBT. Anyone feel free to jump in if they think I am wrong. The difference is, there is no fixing the jury system to account for this.

And besides the bigotry and baiting of discriminated against groups, we have the general nastiness that goes on everyday that the Mods would stop before it got too far. Now many arguments escalate to the point that people on both sides become very nasty and virtually no one is immune and I count myself in that.

If it wouldnt be locked as META, I wonder if a poll was put up what DUers would opt for if they had the chance to make a choice, the Mod system or the jury system.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #476)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:42 AM

478. I think the jury system could have / could still work...

if it was accompanied by a clear set of rules to be enforced.

Juries in real life determine whether someone has or has not broken a specific law.

Juries at DU deliberate on whether a post is acceptable based on a purely subjective interpretation of what a community standard is.

I came across this post from Skinner the other day, from DU2.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8603151

I wonder, if juries were asked to evaluate a post against an objective set of rules, whether they'd be more likely to hide incivility.



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #478)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:55 AM

479. It would require admins periodically reviewing jury decisions vs those rules and eliminating those

 

jurors from the jury pool who don't adjudicate based on those rules.

It could work, but in a sense, that would be the mod system with an expanded pool of mods. The mod system, in terms of how it seemed to me as a regular user, was basically Admins directing a group to hide based on certain specific criteria with a little room for judgement calls but essentially admin driven rules.

I think the switch to juries was done for two reasons.

#1 - Philosophy. I think that the idea of community/bottom-up policing and getting away from a central authority is a general desire for folks on the political left. I think Skinner and the rest of the admins wanted to do what they did from this philosophical perspective. I've always been wary of how such things would actually work in practice and what has happened here has not done anything to lessen that, if anything the jury system here and the failure of OWS to achieve what it really could have achieved has completely soured me on leaderless/community policing philosophy.

#2 - Sanity saver. I don't think Skinner and EarlG had any personal time left because of the demands the mod system put on them. I think they wanted to have a life again and this did it for them.

That #2 would be somewhat negated if the admins involved themselves more closely in the jury system.

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Response to DrDan (Reply #75)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:33 AM

144. Yes, it is. I've been here since the beginning. What's changed is probably your tolerance.

 

DU was never some Progressive fairyland where everyone got along and posted nothing but insightful pearls of wisdom.

See- the fighting over Nader after Bush stole the election.

I have written this as an OP several times over the years.

The reason you think it's changed is because when you first started here, you were so glad to find a place to converse with other Lefties you just enjoyed it and tolerated others who might have a varying opinion.

Over the years though, people get used to certain other posters who most closely share their viewpoints and seek them out. DU comes to be a "fix" of self validation and as that loop gets ever stronger people's tolerance of differing viewpoints gets less and less.

And I have to note- in that other thread a poster who called BLM activists "race naggers" was bemoaning how things have changed on DU too. My point isn't to cast aspersions. My meaning is, DU is what each poster makes it.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #144)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:48 AM

164. There it is

 

Thanks for one of those "insightful pearls of wisdom".

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #144)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:12 AM

189. The increase of posters with the unpleasant ability to

lie shamelessly in order to derail conversations and/or slander other posters is another reason people are leaving, It is a notable characteristic of the Third Way, and there were only a few of these Third Way type of posters here in the early years of DU.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #189)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:13 PM

297. That pretty well sums up what I see. nt

 

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Response to Zorra (Reply #189)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:39 PM

421. This

 

There are some other purely agenda-driven people who should have been PPRd a long, long time ago. Some were even caught using sock puppets, but were inexplicably allowed to return. That is shameful and purely on the admins.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #189)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:09 PM

428. In the early years of DU, most of the people here were angry supporters of Gore-Lieberman.

We signed up here and felt that we were robbed by George W. Bush and his henchman Cheney.

I showed up on the second day, and the site was very glitchy. I kept coming back anyway. I hardly posted at all in the early years (I had a hard job with long hours) but I read a lot -- and most of the people posting weren't looking to burn down the Democratic Party--they were looking to support Democrats. Nowadays, it's like you're IMPOSING to ask a DUer to vote for a Democrat.

I lost my original sign - in when I no longer had access to my old computer or my original email address. I had to start up a new account, but I've been here since day 2 or so. This place has changed a lot, from a site where most people liked Democrats, to a place where people are vicious towards them and demand bullshit "purity tests"--like they expect a guy like Jon Tester to be to the left of Alan Grayson, and they'll finger wag at him if he DARES to put the wishes of his constituents ahead of their attitude that he should be more liberal than the population of his state--it's absurd, much of that stuff.

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Response to MADem (Reply #428)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:47 PM

435. +1 nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #428)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 07:25 AM

471. +1

It has gotten to be that it's almost wrong to support Democrats!

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #144)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:58 AM

219. Well said...

Add to that...

Some of the folks complaining the loudest about the mean spirited, bully behavior never seem to put themselves in that category. Some of these posters are about as rude and catty as they come.

Fascinating....

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #219)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:54 AM

273. Exactly nt

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #144)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:50 AM

237. Wow.

That was a terrific post!

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #144)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:10 PM

400. It was certainly not progressive during the great gay purge of 2009

 

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Response to dbackjon (Reply #400)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:24 PM

407. Yep. nt

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #144)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:34 PM

450. This thread has me in stitches, Kitty.

In the early days, when I lurked occasionally I was too intimidated to post, because I think every OP was started by one or two posters.

When I signed up in 2004 there were many posters bemoaning how DU had changed so much since those early days. Sometime around then, the Lounge was blowing up with long time posters having become too familiar, so follows contempt. The clique wars were born.

I believe it's very much the same as it was when I joined. And the people who disagree on favorite posters agree that we should bemoan the changing nature of DU.

Anyhow, I appreciate that you and I share much the same view here, and thought I'd just say so.

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Response to DrDan (Reply #75)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:09 PM

322. Well, in some ways it's understandable. We were all united against Bushco --

 

when that changed, so did DU.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #322)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:37 PM

444. Well, yes. Except I remember endless flamefests following Kerry's loss

because some chose to blame teh gays.

Ah yes, back in the good ol' days. And those fests cost us really interesting posters too. DU is just a corner of the internet, prone to the ways of the internet, imho.

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Response to DrDan (Reply #75)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:23 AM

458. I remember such things back as far as a decade ago myself

I'd contend they were more plentiful then than now. By no means do I say it's perfect now.

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Response to Godhumor (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:34 AM

146. It's not even the same since I joined, which was not that many years ago.

With 3600 posts since 2004, maybe you have not been interacting with other posters on the board often enough to see the change as clearly as more frequent posters.

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Response to Godhumor (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:03 AM

182. Much has been lost in this forum since 2004

There is much more vitriol then ever. At one time, if you couldn't back up what you posted with facts, your post would get removed or the members of this forum would make sure you were set straight. You didn't post it unless it was true!

And there was much less, of my way or the highway mentality. If I don't agree with who you are backing, then I need to shut up and walk away and not bombard you with reasons you are wrong. There are too many here that can't do that anymore.

DU is not what it was in 2004!

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #182)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:04 AM

240. You put your finger on it.

One of my favorite DUers, ProSense, always always provided fact-based links to support her POV, and she responded with, well, good sense (her screen name was well chosen) and facts in her responses to others. And she's another one who's absented herself from DU recently. : (

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Response to MBS (Reply #240)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:52 PM

350. She was bullied for her thorough research

and back up links. I always found that sad.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #350)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:27 PM

360. Me, too - but even more:

. . not only sad, but also unfair and ridiculous and sadly revealing of the bullies themselves. And no help to intelligent conversation in this website.
I miss ProSense's informed and intelligent and calmly reasoned posts.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #350)


Response to Control-Z (Reply #350)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:57 PM

437. Let's not re-write history

 

ProSense, did nothing but copy and paste links, a huge amount of them linking back to her/his links....She/he very very seldom added commentary...it was like ProSense had a group of minions adding links and links and links to some incredible non-ending data base. I once did a count on her/his posts and they amounted to a new post every three minutes in a 3 week time span and it was around the clock for 24 hours...sometimes the longest interval between posts being 2 to 2 1/2 hours. How is that even possible for one human being?

IT"S NOT

That's not a person, that's a group of persons....that some one with more time than the universe grants anyone.

Anyway, thanks for playing and quit making up shit.

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Response to Caretha (Reply #437)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:36 PM

443. Don't accuse me of making up shit.

Carthage, you are one very rude person. Don't you dare speak to me that way again.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #443)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:39 PM

445. Of course not

 

perhaps you are not "making up shit"...perhaps you just don't know

It's one or the other, sorry I jumped to conclusions.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #443)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:38 PM

485. +1 n/t

 

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Response to Caretha (Reply #437)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:02 AM

465. yup

Had that one on ignore for like 7+ years. I didn't even know she wasn't here anymore.

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Response to Caretha (Reply #437)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:37 PM

484. You are the one making shit up.

 

That's not a person, that's a group of persons....


That's some mighty big accusations against a DUer who's been a member here for almost 10 years. Sure, she really upset people with her constant posting of and linking to facts and debunking propaganda. So much so that they have to go out of their way to make shit up about her.

Pretty damn rude.

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Response to MBS (Reply #240)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:56 PM

383. She often linked to her own posts or to material that actually provided little support

for her proposition.

But by drowning her 'opponents' in blue links she convinced some that her POVs (which invariably stuck to the circle-D party line) were well supported.

I suspect she took another job and that's why she isn't posting here anymore.

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Response to Maven (Reply #383)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 07:55 AM

472. +1

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Response to MBS (Reply #240)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:13 PM

429. I miss her--her links were good; I learned a lot from them. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #429)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:23 PM

452. Thank you.

And in answer to one of the people farther up on this little subthread: yes, she is one person, and a thoughtful and knowledgeable person. I've met her in person.

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Response to MBS (Reply #452)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:27 PM

453. I knew she was one person--those aspersions about her being a paid poster or a bot or

an aggregate were just cruel, shitty, mean things, that cruel, shitty, mean people say when they can't respond to the substance of the argument. And she had her shit together.

I hope she comes back. She's one who didn't GBCW and look for attention--she just faded into the mist. If we are lucky we will see her again....

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Response to MADem (Reply #453)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:44 AM

464. Yes to everything you said! n/t

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #182)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:32 AM

253. I have not been here that long

but I wonder if what you are feeling is reflective of just DU or society as a whole.

IMO, there are a number of forces that have converged that contribute to the problem.

We elected our first black President. I thought we would see less racial tension as a result. Instead, my observation is we've seen the exact opposite. White people whether consciously or unconsciously (take your pick), striving to cling to white institutional power. Voter ID laws, etc. There's a long list.

The emergence of computers, smart phones, etc. as a primary source of communication has pulled us away from as much human contact. Many people will say things electronically they would never say if the other person was in the room with them.

Lastly, the pervasive use of social media provides a basis for many to ASSUME they know a lot more about others than they really do. We are all much deeper than our FB page or our latest tweet, instagram, etc.

IMO, you reduce human contact, provide a basis that can allow people to make assumptions about each other, throw in some very real racial tension and economic inequality we have not seen since the 1920's, you have a recipe for people to treat each other badly.

It's not DU, IMO, it's everywhere.

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #253)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:31 PM

361. Very good points.

This makes sense to me: I think that people are anxious all around.. . and fear and anxiety tends to bring out our lesser selves.
When Pres. Obama referred to American society in a recent speech (I think it was his South Carolina eulogy, but I could be wrong) as "raucous" , he was, if anything, understating the case.

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Response to Godhumor (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:08 PM

487. No, it's not.

Evidence used to matter far more. Now it's almost solely about preconceived perceptions, and evidence and science are left to the wayside. It will only get worse, as has been happening for years.

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:37 AM

32. It's a matter of trust.

 

Some, people get worried when their car won't start. Others, just walk in to town. Because; they have to.



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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:38 AM

33. Well, shit.

I cling to the illusion that Will Pitt is just getting too busy over at Truthout to post much here any more. I like that illusion. I hope it's not delusion.

Losing Kentuck would be a great loss. I hope he's just taking time off.

I know I have to take time off from time to time, usually because I've had enough of the word jumpers, outrage trolls, and other resident bullies who think they're progressive. Or want us to.

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:35 AM

63. Res Ipsa Loquitur.

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Response to merrily (Reply #63)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:15 PM

299. Racial Pepsi Cola?

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Response to Orrex (Reply #299)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:37 PM

362. Ca va sans dire, if you'd like.

Or "samo soboi razumeetsia," if you're in a different mood.

But that goes without saying.

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 05:41 AM

80. No kidding

Kentuck?

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Response to Elwood P Dowd (Original post)


Response to Elwood P Dowd (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2015, 11:57 PM

3. Because a professional journalist who breathlessly reported what he thought was a major scoop,

and turned out to be entirely wrong, is a little too thin-skinned about folks on an Internet message board still mentioning and speculating about this incident a few years later.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:00 AM

6. A few years later? Like 9? Where the hell did that come

from and why? "Breathlessly", Really?

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:05 AM

9. because he once said something impolite about the president

 

And so he's been under constant harassment by a self-appointed Cabal of Pure Thought on DU.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:09 AM

13. Impolite? He used the same language Ted Nugent uses, and has doubled and tripled

 

down on it since then.

Over what amounted to be another fake Obamacare horror story.

But, he's always been able to dish it out but unable to take it, as witnessed by his insulting Skinner over the Rove story.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:11 AM

17. No, Ted Nugent tells Obama "suck on my machine gun" while brandishing an assault rifle

 

Kind of a different sort of rhetoric.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:22 AM

22. They both called him a "piece of shit"

 

and have made clear their intense, personal hatred of the president quite explicit.

Well, it also gets page clicks, so there is an alternate explanation.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #22)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:29 AM

27. You know what, you are too emotionally involved.

It is free speech and they can say what they want, who fucking cares. But it seems like you want this shit to live on.

Donald Trump called McCain a loser, do you see him coming on here dissing the trump, leave it be. We all know that this current president is the best ever!

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Response to akbacchus_BC (Reply #27)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 04:59 AM

77. If that is 'too emotionally involved', then so is anyone worrying about why Will Pitt

has left. And, if it is the reason he left, so would be getting annoyed at someone posting about the '24 business hours' farce.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #77)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:27 PM

335. Yeah concern trolling a 9 year old post, because GD is kinda nice/polite ATM and the shit stirrers

 

can't stand it is 'too emotionally involved'...but you go on with whatever you are making up as an excuse.

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Response to akbacchus_BC (Reply #27)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:29 AM

98. Free speech says you can say what you want, for sure...

 

but you can't say it without any consequences.

I considered that the most rude, juvenile, over-the-top post I think I've ever seen here.

I respected him as a bombastic and "bigger than life" poster for that.

Before that post, I sometimes didn't agree with him, but I did respect his opinion.

After that past, I think his leaving here improves the atmosphere.

If that's the kind of stuff he's gonna right, then good riddance.

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Response to akbacchus_BC (Reply #27)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:59 AM

460. There is no free speech on DU

DU bans people every day for saying anything that a few members don't want to hear.

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Response to akbacchus_BC (Reply #27)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:26 AM

474. There ain't no "free speech" at DU. There are limits to it here.

This is a PRIVATE website, with a TERMS OF SERVICE. The site is all about electing more DEMOCRATS and fewer Republicans to public office. People can't jump on here and "free speechify" about the wonders of a Trump Presidency, or why Jeb! is the Man of the Hour.

The old "rules" used to be cumbersome, because there were many pages of them, and it was a long slog to get through all of them, AND they'd change every so often.... but there are posters here--the rude ones, mosty, I think--who haven't even bothered to read the TOS at all. They don't read the part about electing Democrats, they don't read the part about being civil to one another, and they certainly don't bother reading the big finish:


One more thing: Don't push your luck.
The DU Community Standards state: "It is the responsibility of all DU members to participate in a manner that promotes a positive atmosphere and encourages good discussions among a diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints." Members who demonstrate a pattern of disruptive behavior over time and end up getting too many of their posts hidden by the jury (measured by raw number or percentage) may be found to be in violation of our Terms of Service. If you seem to be ruining this website for a large proportion of our visitors, if we think the community as a whole would be better off without you here, if you are constantly wasting the DU Administrators' time, if you seem to oppose the mission of DU, or if the DU Administrators just don't like you, we will revoke your posting privileges. Remember: DU is supposed to be fun — don't make it suck.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #22)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:48 AM

163. I've read again and again that he was in extreme distress then and apologized later.

Yet, it comes up again and again and again, and with such meanness.

Will's comment was about a professional politician who knew what he signed on for when he ran for POTUS and will never see Will's post unless some asshole here makes sure he does. However, Will does see the shit that gets posted about him over and over and over. And he's supposed to let that go while you can't let go of a comment he made about a politician?

Why can't you see the difference? Comment about Will that hurts Will vs. a comment about Obama that Obama never sees?

By you, I don't mean only geek tragedy, but the collective you, all of you who do that.

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Response to merrily (Reply #163)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:08 AM

186. Pitt gets the respect he shows others here.

 

He's not content to hate the President (and sorry, he's a straight up-hater, whether it's for personal or page click reasons, ergo the Limbaugh-style namecalling), but he also has to demonize people who don't hate the president.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026670461

If President Obama declared that all firstborns be put to the sword...

..some people here would defend it and champion it. "Overpopulation, you know."

Fascinating stuff.


That's one classy dude.

He's never disowned the comments, in fact he periodically brings them back up to reaffirm that he meant it. Any apology was to preserve posting privileged, not because there was any sincere contrition.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024734511

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026887802

Pitt has less respect for President Obama, and Democrats who support President Obama. than do Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, and about an equal amount of respect as that shown by Rush Limbaugh.

He knows that's toxic on a Democratic website, and he wallows in it anyways, because he likes the attention.

He can do math--his Obamahate posts get hundreds of recs, his posts criticizing Republicans get ignored.

There are plenty of people who are willing to bash Obama (and Clinton, for that matter) as if either were the antichrist. Pitt is hardly a unique or necessary voice in that. There are literally hundreds of people here who are more than happy to call Obama every name in the book and who are willing to hold themselves out as the high priests of progressive purity while looking down their snooty noses at the great unwashed masses of the Democratic party.

Mind you, he has no problem telling people who disagree with him to "shut the fuck up" in is posts and is not even above threatening violence against women (he got banned, temporarily, for doing exactly that and then daring the admins to ban him).

Edited on Mon May-10-10 08:50 PM by EarlG
Last night Will Pitt repeatedly threatened another member with physical violence. After the moderators deleted those messages he sent the threats again to the member via private message, during which he challenged the member to report his behavior to the moderators, implying that he would not be held accountable for his actions.

We don't enjoy banning people, particularly people who have been here a long time. WilliamPitt left us absolutely no choice in this matter. This is entirely his own fault and responsibility.


Quite honestly, he should never have been let back here after that.


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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #186)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:21 AM

193. Pitt gets insulted personally and individually for a post he makes about some politician or other.

That's what you've shown me.

Show me a post where Pitt lashed out at an individual DUer without any provocation, other than that DUer made an OP about a politician. Because that's what many swarm to do when Will does nothing more than post about a politician. Any other scenario is a false equivalency.

As far as the admins, they did ban him, I assume for a long time and he did not do that again, did he? And I sure don't know what the member did to provoke him. I am not saying Will should have threatened, no matter what the other member said. However, this is a perfect example. This is what I mean. The endless grudges that never go away, even if the poster gets banned. The looking at only one side of the story--and doing that forever. The storing of links to throw back years later. It's so ugly.

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Response to merrily (Reply #193)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:30 AM

198. ironically, I do believe the person posted that in an attempt to defend it.

 

the issue here is that there's a distinct pattern of toxic behavior, giant flamewars being started with the same guy in the middle of them, the same perception that some people should be above the rules, etc. A cycle that's repeated itself here over the past decade.

if he's going to be treated as a minor celebrity who merits special treatment because he wrote a book, then he has to take the criticism.

And, yes Virginia, when someone accuses the president's supporters of being okay with infanticide, that person deserves whatever scorn comes their way.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #22)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:36 AM

255. And he is a journalist? I dont know this person, but how could he still be a journalist

of any credibility if he publicly says this about any politician, let alone the President?

In private, with his family and friends, of course, but a journalist is not supposed to say these things in public.



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Response to AllFieldsRequired (Reply #255)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:36 AM

256. not a journalist these days, more of a polemicist nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #256)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:48 AM

266. What is his name at truthout?

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #256)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:01 PM

283. and how would you describe yourself these days?

Hmmm?

You don't even have the talent or credentials of Will Pitt and yet you feel free to throw your OPINIONS (and that's what they are) about him around DU, about as enlightened as a farmer throwing the daily slop to the animals.

Shame on you.

And yes, I will proudly take a hide for this, saying what needs to be said.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #283)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:45 PM

422. Plus a fucking thousand.

 

There are some around here who continue to fill much needed voids.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:10 AM

14. I actually defended him for the "piece of shit used car salesman" comment.

Lots of stress when your spouse is having trouble getting necessary medications approved.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #14)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:54 AM

174. It's also apples and oranges in a way.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7017823

Why some DUers here get so personally butthurt about a comment made about a professional politician who could care less what Will posts about him that they think it's okay to shit all over fellow Duer every time he posts is beyond me.

"Why are you being ugly to Will?" "He said something bad about Obama, who could care less. But I have to make it my mission to grind Will down anyway."

And no one seems to see what is wrong with that disconnect.

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Response to merrily (Reply #174)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:52 AM

214. Yep. IMHO the wrong posters are leaving.

 

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Response to JEB (Reply #214)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:50 AM

270. IMO, that is usually the case.

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Response to merrily (Reply #174)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:45 AM

262. Said "something bad" about Obama? What was it? Not comparing Obama to a used car salesman

or implying supporters of a twice elected Democratic President are members of a cult that would even approve of infanticide, that would be a rhetorical bridge too far, so I hope not.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #262)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:03 PM

287. I used to say that George W. was meant to be an armadillo herder.

Was that a bridge too far? Should my post saying that be hidden?

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Response to grasswire (Reply #287)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:25 PM

375. The problem here is that people are emotionally attached to the politician so they

see an attack on the politician as an attack on them. Besides, people love to have enemies. With Will Pitt gone, another one will rise to the top to chase off.

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Response to neverforget (Reply #375)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:55 PM

416. Yup. I could rattle off a damn list of these people

 

The ones who are so deeply invested in a politician, that even the lightest criticism is taken as an axe-handle beatdown. All I can figure is that these are people who have no personality, intellect, or beliefs of their own, and so substitute whatever their "team" is saying in the place of that stuff.

It sounds like a terrible way to go through life, to be totally vacuous, and changing your entire personality every four years or so.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #416)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:26 AM

454. +1

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #416)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:40 AM

477. Ditto. Some folks are indeed emotionally attached to a politician as to stocks! Although being

emotionally attached to a highly winning and consistently dividend paying stock like Blue Chip Obama Inc., the top stock for 7 years, is a bit different than having just bought into penny stocks.

Good luck with folks recent purchases, but you do know how penny stocks usually end up?

Me, I stick with the proven winners. Not near as exciting, granted, but one has to be realistic about your returns over the long term.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:28 AM

44. It was a little more than impolite, however, I do not think that is the reason. Will has

subsequently commented on that, and believes referring to the President with those vulgarities was wrong, at least that is the distinct impression I got.

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Response to still_one (Reply #44)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:29 AM

45. Hasn't stopped people from chasing him around with it, that I've seen

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #45)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:39 AM

48. some, but he isn't that thin-skinned. I don't know why he is leaving, and he sure didn't indicate

the reason in his farewell thread, but I sure don't think it is because of that

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Response to still_one (Reply #48)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:58 AM

179. Some? Some? Are you kidding?

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Response to still_one (Reply #44)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:31 AM

101. Oh but then he had a follow-up....

 

He did apologize, but then he doubled down with the whole TPP thing.

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Response to still_one (Reply #44)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:55 AM

175. He made a crude comment about a politician who will never see it and could care less, even if he

were to see it?

This is a reason for a shitstorm every time he posts?

And this other crap goes back 9 fucking years. But Will is the one who's wrong? My God.

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Response to merrily (Reply #175)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:03 AM

183. I guess you're willing to overlook the personal insults he levies against his fellow DUers.

 

A crude comment in itself would not cause this level of dislike. You shouldn't need to know the backstory to figure that out.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #183)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:09 AM

187. After they swarm to harass and hector him endlessly?

I have never seen one personal insult initiated against any individual DUer by Will. But I have seen him ganged up on time after time. And never with the whole story, in any kind of fair way. No, his defenders have to add that or no one does. I saw those POS swarms many times before I saw the bit about his sick wife and his apology. Disgusting.

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Response to merrily (Reply #187)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:31 AM

199. WilliamPitt is not some gentle lamb who needs people to stand up for him.

 

Last edited Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:26 AM - Edit history (1)

If you think he's being driven from the site, why don't you ask him why. Why doesn't he explain it himself? I doubt you'll get an answer, though.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:50 PM

414. gawd I how detest the swooning pieces of shit

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:07 AM

10. If the "scoop" had turned out to be correct,

I guarantee that people here would (rightly) still be praising Will for it, several years later. So I don't think there are much grounds for complaint. Again, we're talking about a professional journalist, not some anonymous citizen.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:31 AM

29. Could you enlighten me, then, as to why it has been brought up at all right now?

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #29)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:45 AM

36. I don't know.

But it is a significant event in DU's history, and will always come up from time to time.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #36)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:47 AM

37. It will come up from time to time...

as legitimate discourse OR Internet harassment.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #37)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:10 AM

83. The...

...latter.

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Response to onyourleft (Reply #83)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:33 AM

104. I dunno....

 

Did he ever post a mea culpa? Did he ever apologize to people he derided for doubting him (like Skinner)? I did a search, but I never found a post when he came clean, admitted fault, and apologized for acting like an asshat. If he never did such a post, I think the subject is fair game. If he did, point me to it if you know where it is.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #37)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:02 PM

451. It will come up from time to time in the same way that the Oscar thread does,

or CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!11!! does, or the Olive Garden or fried chicken or Walt Starr does. It is part of our history.

I'm sorry that William's feelings were hurt enough that he felt he had to announce his departure, but that episode was epic. Had he not been so disgruntled, the thread that started this would have fallen into oblivion soon enough, as it was already well on it's way before his latest GBCW post. William is eloquent always and intemperate often. This is one of his intemperate moments, imo. I hope he sees fit to grace us with his presence once again, because he is LEGEN ...... (wait for it) ........


DARY.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #29)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:33 PM

340. Because a group of concern trolls were getting mad that GD was somewhat nice and polite

 

So they dug up a 9 year old post to stir shit and it worked! People need to stop feeding these long time concern troll posters when they do these things imo.

They are shameless so trying to discuss anything with them is a waste of time imo.

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Response to Rex (Reply #340)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:17 PM

355. I'd say it was the work of one individual and not a conspiracy at all. YMMV.

 

I agree with you that bringing up that 9 year old post was stupid. But then WilliamPitt won't deign to tell us why he's leaving, either, so...
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #355)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:24 PM

358. Us? See that is it right there, your little group of friends made this too obvious

 

that it was boring in GD and needed some shit stirring so Pitt was picked. You didn't think this was obvious from the beginning?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:36 AM

47. No they wouldn't, even Will agreed he was wrong to use those vulgarites against the president.

However, the argument you make, "if the "scoop" had turned out to be correct they would be praising him". Gee, if only there were WMDs in Iraq I guess some would be praising bush also.

Not trying to get into a pissing contest with you, but I believe that the criticism against the ACA would have been praised, but NOT the way it was delivered. Will admitted as much himself

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:06 AM

92. Especially since he publicly derided people who doubted him.

 

I mean, if you're gonna be bold, it's great reward, but at great risk..

Oh yeah, and there was that whole Fuck you, Mr. President, you piece of shit used car salesman thing. I pretty much lost all respect for him after that.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:04 AM

185. "No ground for complaint does not follow from praise for years that never happened.

And I so disagree it would have happened. I have not seen Will's detractors praise him for diddly, even for a minute. He made the NYT best seller list. I never even knew that until I went to truthout yesterday. So much for praising his accomplishments endlessly. But I did see over and over and over ad nauseum that, heartbroken and stressed, he had call Obama a POS. I never even saw from his detractor swarm that he was heartbroken and stressed, or that he had apologized. That I saw only from his defenders. Let's not pretend there's some scales of justice operating here, some honorable point to hectoring him over that, even after he apologized.

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Response to merrily (Reply #185)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:13 PM

296. speaking as a retired editor...

...he did not technically call Obama a POS. He called used car salesmen POS. Think of that phrase like this: "piece-of-shit-used-car-salesman." "Piece of shit" was describing them. Used car salesmen.

But this has been litigated before, ad nauseum. The haters are still hating.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #296)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:26 PM

305. It's ugly. Mob like. Thug like. Then again, I've seen that with posters other than Will.

And always the same group.

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Response to merrily (Reply #305)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:39 PM

312. Key word, always the same (tolerated and coddled) group

 

a line from Animal Farm comes to mind.

Something about some pigs are more equal than others.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #296)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:02 PM

352. Oh, that's too good! That OP was not about Obama at all but used car salesmen?

 


[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #352)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 04:06 PM

387. yours is a disingenuous post, randome

but you knew that.

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #6)


Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:38 AM

107. 9 years? It was less than that. nt

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:39 AM

65. And of course, Nye, you and I have always been right and been correctly informed about

everything. We are the perfect ones.

Ah!!! Those poor fools who are not as perfect as we are.

Aren't we wonderful.

Seriously, let's bring compassion to our presence on DU.

Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone gleefully reports something that is entirely wrong at some point or another on DU.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you..

I read that somewhere . . . . .

It's good advice.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #65)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:55 AM

67. Yes, everyone makes mistakes.

But most of us are not thin-skinned enough that we need to do the "goodbye cruel world" thing when called out on our mistakes.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #67)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:09 PM

290. Ahem, that was precisely a call out

 

And the bullies also do that to me. Don't worry, the time for me to leave is coming near... and it has none to do with bullies. But all do with another aspect of DU that is tolerated. (Though the bullies are a problem and that series of posts was grade A bullying), but antisemitism. Yes, there I said it.

Just because it is coded, does not mean the whistles are not quite loud if your ear is trained to it.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #65)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:13 AM

191. Everyone makes mistakes.

But it's normal to apologize when you make a mistake, not double down and continue to act like the Big Man on Campus. It's not about "perfection" at all, it's about apologizing for being shitty to people in heated arguments when you turn out to be dead wrong. It's a maturity thing. And "I had one too many" is not an apology. That's a weak excuse.

I forgive people easily. I think most people do. Especially on the internet--hell, it's just opinions, enthusiastically voiced. It's impossible to forgive, though, if the person who could use a little forgiveness steadfastly insists upon their own perfection and doesn't retract any derision they issued while they were prosecuting their failed arguments. So, yes, from that perspective, your "do unto others" schtick would work real well if everyone involved took it onboard. Compassion is a two-way street!

I think a lot of the dramatics are a waste of time. I'd rather get my drama from music!

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Response to MADem (Reply #191)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:45 PM

364. +1, very wise post, especially considering the written word constitutes

statistically only 20 or 30% of any communication with an individual, body language and tone of voice/inflection being the remaining and largest composition of any exchange, which is absent on the internet. So basically, we're all just seeing a fraction of the person's communication, and it's only natural and expected there will be misunderstandings because of the limited medium, so this is a wise point of view to have!


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Response to MADem (Reply #191)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:40 AM

462. Okay.

 

noted.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:28 AM

97. More recently, his "big scoop" on a Turbo Tax "hack" turned out to be bullshit as well.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #97)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:04 AM

120. I was thinking the same thing

 

He jumped the gun, posted his version of the story before the real story broke. When he was called out on getting the facts wrong, he doubled down on it. That's not how professional journalists should behave, and he should be called out for it. If he's leaving because of that, then good riddance.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #97)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:47 AM

264. Forgot about that one!

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:34 AM

147. Breathlessly!!! reported.

Exaggerate much? Everyone makes mistakes ..... that certain hate clubs here pounce on shit that happened years ago to cross yet another off their purge list is pathetic, sad and sickening.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:44 AM

159. "Professional journalist" LOL

 

Inasmuch as someone may have paid him for his juvenile screeds, I suppose so.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #159)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:12 AM

224. +1

HA!

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Response to Elwood P Dowd (Original post)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:01 AM

7. Because DU is really a 3rd way promotion tool?

 

Just my opinion

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:10 AM

15. 'Spect so.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:31 AM

30. Four legs good, two legs better

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Response to TransitJohn (Reply #30)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:28 PM

336. Indeed. nt

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:40 AM

34. Some of the resident bullies want to turn it into one

Trashing GD-P is one of the smartest things I've done. I did it the day it was created.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #34)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:59 AM

68. Agreed

I have several forums & groups trashed and it makes it more tolerable. That said I spend less time here overall.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #34)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:37 PM

342. That is part of the problem, they cannot disrupt GD anymore with their garbage.

 

So they dig up a relic thread from someone they hate to stir shit in GD and it worked. We should stop feeding these concern trolls, since all they do is disrupt GD and crave negative attention.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:43 AM

49. you are wrong. It allows all spectrums of Democratic thought, from the left to middle to right.

In fact if you were to examine the majority of primary posts they are pro-Sanders, and 99% of those posts stand.

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Response to still_one (Reply #49)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:00 AM

56. Lol. The is only the Corporate Approved Candidate. Anything else allowed to

 

post is just to help provide an illusion.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #56)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:17 AM

59. I thought we are talking about DU? Are you saying DU is part of some "conspiracy" to allow positive

posts about Bernie, to "provide an illusion", because "DU" supports the corporate candidate?

All I can say is WOW!

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Response to still_one (Reply #59)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:51 AM

88. Triple that!

 

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Response to still_one (Reply #59)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:29 AM

99. Its always open season on any candidate other than the approved one

 

Hence the reason why two of our most progressive posters are leaving.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #56)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:33 AM

231. Then GTFO?

 

I have no sympathy for those who act the martyr but stick around anyway.

If you think the site is an HRC tool (what a fucking laugh...) then leave. That simple.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #231)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 05:49 PM

394. Armchair tough guy speaks :)

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #394)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 05:54 PM

396. Wtf? This has nothing to do with "tough guy" bullshit

 

But why would stay on a forum if you think it's a tool to advance idas you oppose, unless you're just here to troll... Or you're full of crap.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #396)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:18 PM

438. I'm here for the entertainment value sometimes

 

and to watch people make asses out of themselves....

Proceed Governor

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #396)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:23 PM

440. See post #394 :)

 

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Response to still_one (Reply #49)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:18 AM

60. All spectrums of Democratic thought, from the left to middle to right?

I sense a contradiction there.

.
.
.
.
.

Hint: Those on the right are not Democrats.

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Response to MattSh (Reply #60)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:25 AM

61. Obviously you don't subscribe to Howard Dean's 50 state strategy, or history for that matter.

Here is a little historical perspective for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Democrat

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Response to still_one (Reply #61)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:34 AM

74. Those so-called democrats on the right may have been the democrats turning over black

 

kid's school buses in the 70's. Gave their own kids hate lessons right there on the lawns of the schools.

I didn't think much of those bastards then, don't now either.

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #74)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:14 AM

192. You are right, but I was just pointing out they have always existed in the party.

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Response to still_one (Reply #49)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:34 AM

203. The site owners are *obviously* centrists, and Left leaning posters are periodically purged. nt

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:33 AM

201. Nailed. It. nt

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:44 AM

234. Tinoire was the one to --

 

really bring that info to light wa-a-a-a-ay back in the day. For many years we could maintain the illusion this was a Liberal/democratic home, but with every consecutive primary and election, it became increasingly clear a Party/3rd Way agenda was the true goal. I can't count how many amazing Liberal activists/posters have been jettisoned/chased away over the many years here. Ah, the days of genuine activism here....

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #234)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:55 AM

275. She's another valuable contributor that DU lost n/t

 

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #275)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 05:54 PM

395. Her and her sister. n/t

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #234)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:35 PM

310. +1 nt

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #234)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:22 PM

439. Truth

 

your post makes me weep...

Old, old duer...so hopeful once, and so glad to find this place ...

now, so sad...and pretty positive the experiment is over

Some days I feel like I'm watching a train wreck in slow mo

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #234)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:50 AM

461. It just gets so tedious to have the usual scolds show up

and to watch every thread disintegrate into a messy name-calling session, totally devoid of reasoned discourse.. Many of us old timers just found other things to do

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #234)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 06:30 PM

498. Tinoire? She left, to start 'Progressive Independent', now 'The Bell Forum', firmly communist

and very anti-Democratic party (pretty anti-democracy, for that matter - they often talk about the uselessness of voting, and how a vanguard should be leading the people to the future they don't know they want yet). She left because she's to the left of the Democratic party, however you look at it.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:10 PM

293. You are actually correct

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:47 PM

423. It is very much starting to look that way.

 

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Response to Elwood P Dowd (Original post)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:02 AM

8. What thread?

 

Care to post a link?

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Response to Elwood P Dowd (Original post)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:09 AM

12. because there are too many FUCKING ASSHOLES on DU

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:11 AM

16. "

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:25 AM

25. Can I hug you Skittles, always loved you even with your ass kicking LOL

They are going to annihilate a lot of DU members who has a say in this upcoming elections. I am wondering what the hosts are thinking!

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:25 AM

26. sine qua non n/t

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:31 AM

31. A jury agreed with me, while a host did not. The post stands, but I am blocked from the Gungeon.

 

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #31)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:42 AM

35. Count your blessings.

Really.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #31)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:34 AM

46. I would consider it an honor to be blocked from that POS group

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #31)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:44 AM

66. I'm barred from both the Barack Obama and Hillary groups.

And the funny thing is that I really, really like Barack Obama. I criticize him, but I criticize my husband too. Doesn't mean I don't love them. It's just that we are all human.

But I am barred. So don't take it personally.

I can think of worse places to be barred from than the Gungeon or some other DU closed group. I don't approve of closing the groups, but it isn't my call.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #66)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:29 AM

71. I AM ALSO BANNED

FUCK THEM TOO

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Response to Skittles (Reply #71)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:31 AM

72. I don't feel angry about being banned in Barack Obama or Hillary's groups.

I just feel sorry for people who are so narrowminded.

I'm in the Sanders group and that group bars people too. I don't see the point but that is how it is.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #72)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:32 AM

73. THINK TIGER BEAT

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Response to Skittles (Reply #73)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 05:50 AM

81. Lol!

Nail on the head!

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Response to Skittles (Reply #73)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:44 AM

158. Think Bernie Sanders Group!

 

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #158)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:22 AM

226. When Bernie Sanders' supporters post endless shirtless pics

THEN you can call it Tiger Beat. Personally I don't want to see that, and I support him!

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #72)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:56 AM

90. Being banned from certain groups here is like being on Nixon's Enemies List.

You felt left out if you didn't make the list.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #90)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:44 AM

115. I dont think it's fair to compare the attitude to Nixon's enemies list

 

not fair to Nixon

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #90)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:58 PM

426. Yep. I avoid certain groups because I know if I speak the truth I might get PPRd.

 

That I was banned a few years back from one particularly vile sinkhole of a group is something of which I am quite proud.

I reserve the right to criticize sloppy thinking (and "sloppy" is a gross understatement), fanboy/girling and plain old stoopid wherever I see it.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #72)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:31 PM

442. I communicated with those

 

who started the Sanders group.

I advised against banning.

I so wanted Sanders to be better/different.

That's why I won't join. I'm beginning to think I'm just fuckin' to old and to set in my ways....but it all just seems like a game anymore, and not democratic at all.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #66)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:11 AM

84. Changes to DU have MADE it more divisive and bitter.

The jury system and closed groups (and people being "kicked out" of groups) have made DU much less cohesive as a group. We have been splintered more specifically in to clear-cut sides and bitter animosities have developed from this. It's made this site so much less enjoyable to visit.

I have found myself reading comments much, much less than I used to because I can't stand how aggressive and patronizing some of our most prolific posters are around here. As Skittles said, there are way too many assholes that post on DU now. I think I'm going to trash GDP and stick to reading OP's (and not comments for awhile). I experience much less frustration and anger following this strategy. I've also stopped replying to certain posters that ALWAYS frustrate me. I'm going to use "ignore" more judiciously. I don't need to engage with a few of "our" posters. I'm not going to be changing their mind that's for sure.

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Response to stillwaiting (Reply #84)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:11 AM

188. Yeah, there seems to be a huge grudge match between a handful of prolific posters that seem to think

it's a good idea to fling their garbage all over the main page. I've seen plenty of times where there's a huge fight between 6-7 people in one thread, then they all decide that they're not getting enough attention there, so they each create their own threads and spread their argument all over the place. Soon the front page is filled with the same threads with the same people having the same argument, where 90% of the posts are usually insulting each other.

Meta and call outs are supposedly not allowed, but we get tons of weasel "I can't believe some people actually think XYZ" posts.

Posting limits would probably help, but I doubt that's going to happen. Without them, if they handful of people (I dunno, maybe 80-90) who make 40+ posts a day decide that this is going to be ground zero for their shouting matches, there's not much the rest of us can do other than leave (or I guess we could just start actually warning on/hiding all the posts we've been letting slide, but again, doubt that's going to be happening anytime soon).

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Response to stillwaiting (Reply #84)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:46 PM

365. Allowed it to become.

Nobody has been forced to become divisive and bitter. That's their own doing.

Same for being rude and insulting or thinking any compromise is betrayal.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #66)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:28 PM

441. Do you not find it very very

 

curious that a Democratic forum would block you from a group dedicated to the Democratic President of the US?

Does that seem Democratic to you?

This is not.......I repeat....THIS IS NOT WHAT DU WAS ABOUT WHEN IT BEGAN

I do not know for sure, but I guess it is all about money for the administrators/owners of this site.

When it started, and when they recruited people like me, my siblings and friends in the beginning, they (the admins/owners) were all about speaking truth to authority. Damn it to hell and damn all who made it no longer a safe haven for truth!

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Response to Caretha (Reply #441)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 03:14 PM

496. you have to completely kiss candidate ass

there's no questioning them - fuck the swooners, NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE SWOONING FOR

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #66)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 03:30 AM

504. unban me Thanks.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #31)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:03 AM

482. So Bansalot only blocks posters after they have a post hidden by a jury?

or do you make the decision to block independent of whatever a jury says? I am assuming you would not condemn a fellow forum host for maintaining the same standards you keep.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #482)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:51 PM

486. GCRA blocks people who think solving a problem by having more of it is a good idea. nt

 

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #486)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:29 PM

488. And RKBA blocks people that repeatly disrupt.

no difference, is there?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #488)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:33 PM

489. There is no RKBA Group on DU. That right there is your major malfunction.

 

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #489)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:45 PM

490. You can discuss gun contol - we do it all the time

and we welcome opposing views - there is a reason we have only blocked two posters.

But getting back to the original topic - so we can agree that jury results are irrelevant when it comes to being blocked in a group? That group hosts have the power to block regardless of jury results? Right?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #490)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:05 PM

491. I'll side with Skinner on this

 

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #491)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:12 PM

492. So stop mentioning that jury result if it is irrelevant to the issue

You were blocked. It is time to get over it and move to something productive. It is only an online forum after all.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #492)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:14 PM

493. There is no RKBA Group on DU. That right there is your major malfunction.

 

nt

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #493)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 06:17 PM

494. You are not making much sense here

Unless you really think it was your gun control views that got you blocked. Which won't surprise me.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:47 AM

38. Couldn't a said it better myself.

:thumsup:

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:19 AM

42. +1,000

No kidding, no damn kidding!



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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:45 AM

50. It has always been that way

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 01:52 AM

52. Indeed. n/t

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:08 AM

57. The guy doing the GBCW could be very unkind when he had a mind to....

Calling the POTUS a "piece of shit used car salesman" is something I'd expect to read at a right wing web site, not here. I recall one evening when he was apparently in his cups and issued threats to DUers with whom he disagreed. One of the admins banned him for that. That kind of behavior is not endearing.

And I'm sorry, "hot-breathed progressivism" is not a synonym for "rude shithead."

If one is a writer for one's ostensible living, and isn't just doing it as a 'pretend job,' one should be able to express oneself without using crass vulgarities on a semi-regular basis. I mean, sure, The Rude Pundit does it, but that's a schtick--and There Can Be Only One.

You're only as good as your last column, as Clark Kent and Lois Lane know full well.


He could bully with the best of 'em. He was crude too often, got mean with people occasionally, and got his facts wrong often enough that people noticed. It attracted some negative attention. Not sure what this latest round of teasing is about, but it's not like he hasn't invited a bit of drama with some of his commentaries. I suppose we'll have to wait for someone to reveal that there was some kind of dust-up between him and the person who posted that 'anniversary' thread.


That said, he'll be back. He was William Rivers Pitt, then William Pitt, and there may have even been another iteration here, it's not the first time he's gone off for a while--even if he trashes his password/email combo, he'll return. He's like a moth to the flame~! He's probably got a little campaign gig or something. If that campaign ends he'll be at loose ends again, unless he's joined the nine to fivers; that could cut into his screen time in a big way, depending on the gig.

Or maybe he'll wake up tomorrow and change his mind totally and resume posting here. Who knows?

If people want to leave, they should leave. I think it's probably better to just slip out the back Jack, make a new plan, Stan...rather than post a dramatic GBCW thread with all the attendant recs and "Oh nooooos." It's a bit attention seeking to my mind, and it invites fights within the thread--"You never loved him!" "He was mean to me!!!" It's all ... pointless. Like a soap opera without the dramatic music and good looking/aging but tightened actors.

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Response to MADem (Reply #57)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:09 AM

58. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Response to Skittles (Reply #58)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:36 AM

64. Whatever, then! nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #64)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:27 AM

70. yes, exhibit OVER

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Response to Skittles (Reply #70)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:57 AM

177. Yes, it certainly is over. LOL!

 

Perfect illustration.

Bemoan the loss of an "old timer" who wrote witty, enlightening pearls of wisdom…

And then after another DU'er posts a well thought-out, well written post THAT YOU DON"T AGREE WITH, and post "zzzzzzzzzzz".

Well Done, Skittles. Well done.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #58)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:36 AM

152. Plus a million. nt.

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Response to MADem (Reply #57)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 06:00 AM

82. How nice of you to explain.

 

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Response to elias49 (Reply #82)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:33 AM

145. I wasn't explaining--I was just expressing my singular view,

which is worth as much as yours.

It's just an opinion, based on experience. YMMV.

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Response to MADem (Reply #57)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:13 AM

93. I know we don't often agree,

but this is a good post.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #93)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:35 AM

148. Thank you.

I don't get mad at people with whom I don't agree, and I rarely hold grudges. You have to be pretty mean to me for that happen! I like your avatar, btw--energetic, dynamic--makes me feel like I should walk the mountain lion....er, dog, or something!! Heh heh!

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Response to MADem (Reply #148)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:12 AM

190. Lol! It's a busy little avatar for sure!

I'm the same - I try not to hold any grudges here on DU.

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Response to MADem (Reply #57)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:01 AM

118. Not sure which "anniversary" you meant

But just in case it was me, no dust up whatsoever. Not much communication between me and Pitt at all, really (on board or off), except that he joined in the condolences when I lost a close family friend a couple of years ago (Helen Thomas), which I appreciated, as well as everyone else's. It appears that the ranks of my "amazing elderly" friends thin out soon after they hit 90--I have only one left.

If the "anniversary" person was someone else, please disregard!

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Response to DFW (Reply #118)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:48 AM

165. No, no, no--not you at all.

It was nine years ago last May that this original event happened. I didn't know if there was an ongoing feud or what, but I was speculating that the subject was brought up as an anniversarial reference (e.g. remember when you did this all those years ago?) in a more recent dust up.

I'm not seeing the full context here--all I know is that someone posted a "throwback" reference to that Rove (non) event. I remember when that happened--there were a dozen or more long (well, dial-up or slow shitty DSL long) threads about this matter and at some point harsh words were exchanged.

When I first read the story, all those years ago, I was in the "naive hoper" category--I was wishing for Fitzmas along with a lot of others. It was a bitter disappointment to learn that the story was so horribly sourced and, basically, a load of fertilizer. The upside is that it dialed up my skepticism meter by a hundred-fold. I want several sources before I buy off on a major tale like that one, especially one that raises my hopes, and they'd better not be aggregated sources, either!

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Response to MADem (Reply #165)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:26 AM

227. Oh, OK. I didn't think so

But since I did just post on that theme, I wanted to make sure.

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Response to MADem (Reply #57)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:27 AM

134. Agree he'll be back

I recall the time he asked Skinner to delete his account because he wanted to quit but was addicted. Another time he was actually banned - and was allowed to return after that. This is nothing - the random reminder of the 2006 non-scoop is just silly. I don't think he's that sensitive to quit over that.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 03:12 AM

69. ^THIS

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 07:39 AM

110. Yes, and those saying that

are usually themselves guilty of being one, at least once, on this board..

Will is quite thin skinned.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:36 AM

151. You're kidding right? The cadre of folks who attacked Obama relentlessly can't take any criticism?

 

Skittles, how many hits do you think one would get if we did a search on your name and the term "Swooners"? Even with the advances in computers and microchips I think most computers would choke on the count. This criticism of Obama and folks supporting him by you and others is ongoing for 6+ years now.

But some criticism of Bernie and those who support him for a few weeks makes those folks doing it "assholes"?

I'm sorry, you and most folks in this thread complaining don't have the standing to call anyone else names for criticism of others.

Not at all.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #151)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:37 AM

153. Right backatcha!!!! nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #153)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:39 AM

155. That post doesnt make any sense at all. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #155)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:42 AM

157. Really???

- your reply to tragedy. (You know exactly what I mean.) You have no fucking room to talk about anyone else.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #157)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:45 AM

160. And your version of events is still incorrect. But please continue. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #160)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:45 AM

161. BULLSHIT. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #161)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:47 AM

162. Nope. I have two kids. I would never laugh at the loss of a child. So you can stop manipulating

 

people to try to get them to believe your version of events.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #162)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:48 AM

166. Well you did!

And not just one, but two children.

You replied with: - period.

Fuck your changing history to 'manipulate people'.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #166)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:51 AM

168. Nope, the laughter was at your inability to prove my contention wrong. And you wanted to distract

 

people from that so you turned it into a bullshit story about me supposedly laughing at the loss of your child.

Fortunately, most people saw through that. I received a lot of PMs in support including after the OP you created that you self deleted before I could respond. Really brave that.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #168)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:54 AM

173. i received a lot of pm's too.

Nothing but disgust.

And nope, your laughter was at my post in which I mentioned the death of two children, one my own.

PERIOD. Who the fuck would do that?

I have to go now, your posts make me sick.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #173)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 08:58 AM

178. I'm sure you did. I have many detractors here who would leap at any criticisms of me

 

What you did with this situation was some of the most manipulative nonsense I have seen in my entire lifetime of online experience.

All because you were losing an argument.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #178)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:17 AM

244. You're a sick, sick person. nt.

on edit: and no, the pm's had nothing to do with anything I said.

They were all comments on your post. Try harder - you seem to care more about what your fans here think about you than saying or doing the right thing. Perception of your image is everything for you, isn't it Steven? Imagine yourself in my, or anyone else's shoes you'd reply to that way ....... you can't, you don't have it in you. Empathy is something many people lack, I do get that. But don't fucking turn around your ignorance on me. Shame ........ you should have it.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #244)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:24 AM

246. Your trying desperately hard to manipulate things to make it seem that way, that's for sure.

 

Let's cut to the heart of the matter. I would never make the leap to assume someone was laughing at the death of a child.

I would ask them straight up if it appeared that way. And frankly I would believe it if a person said no, because, hello? Who goes around assuming people are that way?

You have enjoyed that accusation against me way too much.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #246)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:30 AM

251. Your post spoke for itself.

It was this -------------- Do you think people are stupid?

No following apology, explanation, message of remorse ........ nothing. So I made a thread about my Karley with pictures to show he was a person who didn't deserve to be laughed at, while you post threads on your child - who, by the way, is beautiful. You said nothing on my thread then, either. All you have to offer is - poor, poor me ........ look at how you're trying to make me look. Pathetic and made/makes my stomach sick.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #251)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:32 AM

252. Your manipulative response spoke for itself too. I can't imagine doing that to someone.

 

What you did is probably the worst thing a DUer has done to another DUer.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #252)


Response to Post removed (Reply #259)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:43 AM

261. Stop pretending and playing the martyr, OK? You know exactly what you did.

 

Trying to portray someone as laughing at the death of the child just to win an argument.

And lets not pretend your behavior started there. You have been behaving like this toward me and other people for years. Your abusive PMs to me started long before this. And you sent the same abusive PMs to other people. All of this by you is manipulative nonsense.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #261)


Response to Post removed (Reply #265)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:49 AM

267. No, I didn't and you didn't even bother to ask what I meant. You ran with it like you loved it.

 

You didn't care at all what I meant.

All you cared about was, "YAY, I can use this against him. Everyone will forget about the argument, feel sorry for me and think he is a terrible person".

I can't imagine what it would be like to be like that.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #267)


Response to Post removed (Reply #271)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:55 AM

274. A liar? Its exactly what you did. It's what you continued to do here. In a completely unrelated

 

thread, you hijacked it to get more mileage for your manipulative bullshit. Most people are on to you, you know.

Lots of folks have been around people who are extremely manipulative and they recognize it for what it is.

A creep? A creep is someone who sends unsolicited abusive PMs to half a dozen people.

You've got the lock on the creep title.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #274)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 11:58 AM

281. On to me?

For what?

Tell me .......... I'd like to hear what I've done. Certainly never laughed at the death of anyone's child, or anyone, period.

Manipulative - again, look in the mirror.

You really are fucking unbelievable.

Poor, poor Steven.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #281)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:01 PM

284. Yep, other folks pointed out that what you were doing was manipulating the situation.

 

I didn't see it at first. I thought it was a simple misunderstanding.

But what you did went way beyond misunderstanding. You loved it. You went on a campaign with it.

Classic manipulation.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #281)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:05 PM

288. And for the record, I am not the person who alerted. The person who clued me in that you were

 

manipulating the situation when it first happened, they PM'd me and said they were alerting.

And no, I am not revealing who that person is.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #281)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 03:57 AM

505. you need help and a lot of it.

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #505)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 04:36 PM

508. Yeah, it's hard to fit that person's behavior into anything resembling

 

what most folks would consider within a thousand miles of OK. When you understand all the aspects of what they did here, I still can't believe it to tell you the truth. And that doesn't even include the prior things like unsolicited abusive PM's to half a dozen to a dozen folks and more.

What you said in your post times a billion.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #274)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:21 PM

302. I've got PM's too...

And for what it's worth, I can attest to how your post is being deliberately misrepresented.

Though, my backing may do more harm than good.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #302)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:31 PM

306. Yup, several folks in that thread back in February got abusive PMs. That was months before the

 

argument that Polly and I had where the main dispute from this thread arises.

And thanks for coming here and speaking up.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #274)

Tue Jul 28, 2015, 12:36 PM