General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust saw 12 years a slave
I was wondering how much was fact and how much was fiction? While in college I took an African American studies class under Dr. Gwen Fortune a black professor in which I learned that for the most part the slaves were not mistreated many were treated as family members and given titles as aunt and uncle.
I do not condone slavery but for the most part I believe that most whites treated their slaves as part of the family. I do not believe that the human condition is that evil.
This is not to say that some are evil , but that was the exception rather then the rule.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)But property has no rights so slaves were at the mercy of their owners, as the movie adequately depicted.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)and separated from family members if their owners changed their mind about them, or had a debt to settle.
I can't believe this bullshit OP was allowed to stand by a jury. I also don't believe that Gwendolyne Fortune ever said most slaves were treated well.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)G_j
(40,372 posts)you've been taught a lie, it was by no means "most" who were treated as family.
Squinch
(51,083 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)To slave owners, it led to freedom.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)"Uncle" and "Aunt" were pejorative terms for elderly black people in the South for a century after the Civil War.
Field slaves were treated like the horses, mules, and other animals who worked in the fields.
The vast majority of slaves were chattel condemned to a life of working in the fields. The cotton gin exploded the slave trade.
At one point slaves in two states outnumbered the free whites. Here's the census from 1860:
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)whathehell
(29,103 posts)and that is that the terms "uncle" and "aunt" for elderly black people
in the South were not meant as pejoratives by those using them, they
were meant as terms of respect within the admittedly messed up mores of the time.
Apart from that, I would call your characterization correct.
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)were usually the victims of rape.
LiberalArkie
(15,735 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)and it's only in the Congressional apportionment that they get reduced to 3/5s of a person.
I compared the numbers for Mississippi and Missouri to the slave counts by age charts in the 1860 census and the numbers are similar (off by less than a hundred.)
one_voice
(20,043 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)The film was based on an autobiography. So yes, the treatment of black people was abominable.
Start with Aptheker if you actually want to learn how great slavery was.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:35 PM - Edit history (1)
Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave was written in 1845 shortly after he escaped from his generous master:
I have said my master found religious sanction for his cruelty. As an example, I will state one of many facts going to prove the charge. I have seen him tie up a lame young woman, and whip her with a heavy cow skin upon her naked shoulders, causing the warm red blood to drip; and, in justification of the bloody deed, he would quote this passage of Scripture--"He that knoweth his master's will, and doeth it not, shall be beaten with many stripes."
Master would keep this lacerated young, woman tied up in this horrid situation four or five hours at a time. I have known him to tie her up early in the morning, and whip her before breakfast; leave her, go to his store, return at dinner, and whip her again, cutting her in the places already made raw with his cruel lash.
The secret of master's cruelty toward "Henny" is found in the fact of her being almost helpless. When quite a child, she fell into the fire, and burned herself horribly. Her hands were so burnt, that she never got the use of them. She could do very little but bear heavy burdens. She was to master a bill of expense; and as he was a mean man, she was a constant offence to him.
He seemed desirous of getting the poor girl out of existence. He gave her away once to his sister; but, being a poor gift, she was not disposed to keep her. Finally, my benevolent master, to use his own words, "set her adrift to take care of herself."
Here was a recently-converted man, holding on upon the mother, and at the same time turning out her helpless child, to starve and die! Master Thomas was one of the many pious slaveholders who hold slaves for the very charitable purpose of taking care of them.
Living at the whim or beck and call of another can never be a good thing. The slaves brought here were neither refugees or volunteers. The image above of an older Douglass still shows what his eyes have seen. There is no excuse for slavery, it is the worst form of theft.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I was thinking of the large number of slave revolts too. If things were so great, people wouldn't have been trying to get away, at great and terrible risk to their lives.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/did-african-american-slaves-rebel/
<snip>
So, did African-American slaves rebel? Of course they did. As early as 1934, our old friend Joel A. Rogers identified 33 slave revolts, including Nat Turners, in his 100 Amazing Facts. And nine years later, the historian Herbert Aptheker published his pioneering study, American Negro Slave Revolts, to set the record straight. Aptheker defined a slave revolt as an action involving 10 or more slaves, with freedom as the apparent aim [and] contemporary references labeling the event as an uprising, plot, insurrection, or the equivalent of these. In all, Aptheker says, he has found records of approximately two hundred and fifty revolts and conspiracies in the history of American Negro slavery. Other scholars have found as many as 313.
<snip>
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)What is your threshold for beating human beings and owning them like property?
Fucking troll.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They are first person accounts and they are free. Well some are. I read most of them. Most slaves were treated like shit. You don't sell or rape or beat your family.
Squinch
(51,083 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)I call bs on that. Being a slave while being a human being always has been and always will be a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION. It was a gross injustice. The things you see on DU these days. SMH
eta: I think you are either not quite truthful or your instructor greatly misinformed you. Enjoy your stay however short that may be
Squinch
(51,083 posts)I said I didnt condone slavery, I just questioned the mistreatment of slaves as a whole.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Squinch
(51,083 posts)life under a rock that you are unaware that slavery is a bad thing?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And I suppose you think we just picknicked with the Native Americans, too? Internment camps were like boy scout camp? Jim Crow was not as bad as it sounds? Wow. Um? Maybe you just have blinders on. It was worse that 12 years a slave. From the middle passage on..
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)your hard-working brain doesn't get? Is being a 'slave' some condition you'd live in happily or would'nt your hard-working brain assume that being a 'slave' to begin with was mistreatment of your human rights?
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Did you need a match, or do you need to barrow Ken Burns ' Civil War ' or is that Hollywood ?
CatWoman
(79,302 posts)brush
(53,971 posts)person that wondered unto DU and thought this crap would fly here.
fishwax
(29,150 posts)Do you not think slavery itself is mistreatment?
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Squinch
(51,083 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I hope the wiseass jurors who left this racist tripe are proud of themselves.
Doubt they will be in here "teaching."
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert
On Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:43 AM you sent an alert on the following post:
Just saw 12 years a slave
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025363454
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
YOUR COMMENTS
Racist bullshit.
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:50 AM, and voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT ALONE.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Some slaves were treated as family.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Ignorant through design or circumstance needs education not ridicule. Without hate, teach.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Although it is full of ignorance, there is nothing here that actually comes off as racist. Just pure ignorance and thus does not warrant hiding but rather, should stand where others can provide an education to the poor poster who appears to be totally ignorant and has missed a history lesson or two along the way.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: the post is moronic, but Im sure the comments below the O.P. will "educate" this idiot.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Opinions are like assholes, I guess.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Just saw this post and was repelled by it. It is racist tripe.
Thank you.
Squinch
(51,083 posts)like the trolls outnumber the liberals.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)All who left it should be banned, imo.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Iggo
(47,591 posts)I don't even wanna know which ones of us voted to leave that shit up.
elleng
(131,370 posts)and had I been on the jury, I would have been another juror 'leaving,' to educate the poster. I agree with Jurors #3, 4 & 5.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Some of us didn't sign up for Stormfront talking points.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)elleng
(131,370 posts)The OP asked for a discussion and to be informed, and instead has received a huge amount of 'negative' (nice word) responses. Not at all in the DU or Dem Party spirit.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)wherever it rears its ugly head.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)of the history of slavery in America would never make. The OP claims to have been told this by an African-American professor to add credence to the claim. A class in African-American studies, and the OP came away with the impression that it wasn't so bad being a slave if you had the right master? That's bullshit. Period.
Holding no quarter for FAUX news-like twisting of the facts? That's totally in the old DU and the Democratic party spirit.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)I am no longer astounded.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I didn't remember anything about being nice about racism.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)brush
(53,971 posts)BainsBane
(53,127 posts)Someone hates blacks, no problem. Let them voice 19th century pro-slavery ideology. Why pretend this is a site of 21st century humans let alone liberals.
elleng
(131,370 posts)no one hating blacks, or pro-slavery ideology, in the OP.
I see failures to pay attention to what others have posted here, and LOTS of jumping to conclusions.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)and uninformed about history. What the OP articulates is precisely the ideology 19th century slaveholders used to justify slavery, and they most certainly were racists.
Read this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5364802
Anyone who argues slavery was benevolent is a racist. It's not that tough to figure out.
elleng
(131,370 posts)because in your view the OP articulates a 19th century ideology, and that I am uninformed about that ideology.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)It is a factual statement. Those are 19th century pro-slavery arguments. Not in my view, in reality.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)He banned the OP this morning for being a slavery and Nazi apologist. FYI.
tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Claiming slavery was benign or benolevent is a racist lie.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)The points the OP advances are all memes from racist websites and philosophies.
It's the utter depths of white chauvinism to make the paternalistic claim over and over, in the face of others providing feedback, including posters of color, that the bigoted opinions one is advancing are actual fact.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)who cares if you can't see it. your inability to see it has nothing to do with its existence.
you could fail to see that the earth isn't flat. big deal.
that says more about you than the thing you're talking about.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Same shit as this OP. You've been trolled.
Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #21)
Post removed
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)have come forward and identified themselves and taken it upon themselves to "teach" this heaping pile of racist ignorance.
It is cruel and bestial. If people want to go argue with racists on the internet, there are plenty of other places.
elleng
(131,370 posts)HAD I been a juror, I would have agreed with those voting to KEEP, and inform.
The posters here calling posters who seek EDUCATION and to KEEP, racist are NOT, imo, doing so in the DU, and Democratic Party spirit.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Are you going to get started then? I've been at this for hours dealing with the dirty diaper the others jurors left me with. I'd appreciate a break.
elleng
(131,370 posts)and am going out for a while, will look at the Full Moon, and hope that the lunacy here will end.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the OP has had 6 hidden posts so far because he's been posting things seek to minimize the harm of slavery and also, bonus, Nazis.
the poster is a troll.
the idea that you're castigating a member in good standing for questioning a jury that didn't hide racist statements about slavery not being so bad shows that you not only are your priorities misplaced, your judgement is sorely lacking.
elleng
(131,370 posts)didn't study his/her 'history.'
I 'castigated' someone? 'Sorry' you don't appreciate my judgment.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)the ones I can argue with, the ones I know are good Democrats but perhaps have a lack of understanding in one issue. These are the ones who can educate me and I can reciprocate.
The other's are just plain idiots who ended up on the wrong forum. Not worth anymore time than to have a little dance.
tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)And no, I don't care if this will be my second ever hide. This thread is turning my stomach, and anyone who let it stand do likewise.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Hopefully EarlG will review the tapes and put this poster out of our misery.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Most likely we'll be told to "educate" the jackass, but to that I say, you can try to teach a pig to sing, but it'll waste your time and annoy the pig. Very tellingly, the OP refuses to listen to the arguments put forth in this thread, so let's hope sunlight will cause him to turn to stone - a tombstone!
Squinch
(51,083 posts)that he is a troll whose aim is to waste our time. I would say asking if slavery is bad is one of those subjects. If a poster asked to be educated on whether murder was bad because he heard differently, I would think the same thing.
Under what rock does he need to be living to not know that slavery is a bad thing? And how much tolerance do we owe such trolls? To not allow people like this to waste our time is not an undemocratic act.
If the topic were something more likely to be the subject of confusion, I would agree with you, but I don't agree with you here.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)They're just happy to watch the trainwreck on a lazy Sunday. Sad.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Seriously. I won't hold my breath though.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)Because we'd suffocate while they're still out there with a sign that reads: "I CAN TYPING!!11!!!"
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)At least the OP racked up enough for another time-out though.
kcr
(15,326 posts)But no equal consideration for anyone who calls out bigotry. That needs to be smacked down, pronto! That's just trolling right there
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)BainsBane
(53,127 posts)The post above. 19th century pro-slavery ideology is deemed acceptable, but calling it out is not.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Because we're not being nice and "teaching" the OP.
Well, where I teach, the OP would be suspended and probably expelled for racism if he dropped this tripe in the classroom.
I'm not obliged (or even allowed) in real life to accept my students violating the civil rights of others in my classes, but evidently the bar is much lower here at DU.
liberalhistorian
(20,822 posts)post, and I am in disbelief that it was not only hidden, while the unbelievably ignorant, bigoted OP was allowed to stand, but that the vote was, incredibly, 2 to five to hide it. Sometimes I don't recognize this place anymore, and after eleven years here that's pretty sad. And I'm beginning to wonder if this is 1914 and not 2014. I simply cannot believe we're still having to educate about the horrors of slavery at this late date, 150 years after it finally, mercifully, ended. This has long been settled history.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)That's about the time frame of the argument in the OP. Honestly, this is all too much for me to take. I can't imagine anyone would think such ideas acceptable, let alone a place that is supposed to be liberal.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)It amazes me that we could ever elect a man like Andrew Jackson as president.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)to include unpropertied white men and was a war hero. You say genocidal racist like that was considered a bad thing at the time.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)Let the disinfecting begin! LOL
Beartracks
(12,835 posts)Squinch
(51,083 posts)aware that slavery is bad. This is trollery and an attempt to waste our time. Which, because the OP wasn't hidden, was successful.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)I feel we can't know the actual intent behind the OP.
Some people are just that deeply misinformed. Some people have been told, all their lives, that slave owners were kind to their slaves. They have been told that slaves were happy to be enslaved, contrary to all the evidence.
Squinch
(51,083 posts)a site called Democratic Underground to ask his questions. Especially not using the argument, "I went to a better college than you could get into, and a black professor told me that slavery wasn't bad, so I'm just asking because I don't know." This is patently not genuine.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Beartracks
(12,835 posts)Alerting and hiding posts like the OP denies the rest of us the benefit of the discussion that ensues.
I don't know about you all, but I derive value at DU by the discussions that take place, not by the discussions that don't.
=========================
zappaman
(20,606 posts)About whether or not slavery was a good thing is better suited for other sites.
Squinch
(51,083 posts)And can't we accept that a person suggesting otherwise is a troll and a waste of time?
Beartracks
(12,835 posts)But all *I* was saying is that, inevitably, in threads like this one, there are links to informative sites or books that I didn't know existed. And THAT is where I find value in such discussions.
=========================
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)reasonable CAN NOT DISAGREE on whether slaves were mistreated or not.
slaves were mistreated. full stop.
this is just like those who want to discuss whether the holocaust really happened. IT DID.
there is no giving equal footing to a lie.
that's why it should be hidden.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)He won't be posting until the beginning of September:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=215393&sub=trans
kcr
(15,326 posts)But he won't because that would be admitting that DU3 and the jury system is a huge pile of fail.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)sometimes I just have no words........
onecent
(6,096 posts)on your 5th...LOL Nice knowing ya.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)I have never had a post hidden.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I can't believe people are taking this OP seriously, some of the worst RWing drivel I've ever seen on this site. Looks like something straight out of Cliven Bundy's mouth.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)I am deeply offended slavery was inhumane regardless of the opinion of hate filled people and their revisionist history.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)NOW, you have 6 and cannot post until September 8.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=215393&sub=trans
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:21 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=215393A member since 2008, but only saw his posts recently and thought he wouldn't last very long...
onecent
(6,096 posts)femmocrat
(28,394 posts)Read the book. It will open your eyes and your mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Years_a_Slave
I have not seen the movie yet, so I do not know how true it is to the book, but the trailers I have seen look pretty close to it.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and don't think it isn't obvious what game you're playing.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)I hope the admins are paying attention to the jurors who decided this was worthy of an OP on DU.
Response to sufrommich (Reply #41)
Courtesy Flush This message was self-deleted by its author.
malaise
(269,278 posts)spare us.
coljam
(188 posts)fact we can discuss issues in a civilized manner. People should be able to share opinions without being pilloried for them
Without this we are no better then those we disagree with.
Squinch
(51,083 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Squinch
(51,083 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)1. the act of spouting accusations while cowardly hiding behind the claim of "just asking questions."
2. asking questions and ignoring the answers. "He said he was going to present evidence, but instead he was just JAQing off..."
"Just asking questions" takes over when the answers are already well known, where the question embodies a point refuted a thousand times, or where the questioner exhibits willful ignorance.
In some cases, it also helps hide the nebulousness or absurdity of the questioner's own views...
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions
IOW, some use JAQing, or the Just Asking Questions method about things that everyone either knows or can quickly google to find the answers or solutions.
Because they are not looking for facts and never respond to them and turn clearly disruptive, roundly abusing the person giving them facts. They want to garner reaction only.
This poster turned abusive and is blocked from this thread after his reply to Starry Messenger:
coljam
This message was hidden by Jury decision.
222. Sorry you couldnt get into the college I went to.
A member from 2008, who's reached the age of 59 as his Profile claims, is not ignorant about slavery.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Dude, do you like, live near Cliven Bundy? Seems like he may have been teaching classes in your schools on Slavery.
you read the post again to see what I said.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)There is no need to read it twice your message was loud and clear.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You need to reread it. It sounded like a fairy tale.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)you spend 12 as a slave and get back to the rest of us on your experience. Make sure your owners and the society you dwell in view you as only 3/5ths human, too.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)were treated well? That's Stormfront shit.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)of your egregious error. It is amazing that your OP was not hidden by that jury. Please don't attempt to justify slavery on DU because it "wasn't so bad." You got lucky this time. Don't expect that luck again. That's my advice.
boston bean
(36,225 posts)Or at least there was a time, this racist tripe bullshit would have earned the banhammer in about 3 seconds after posting.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)does that trouble you?
would you like DU to have long discussions about the idea that maybe perhaps slaves were treated kindly by their masters (owners)?
well that would explain a lot if that's your wish.
ecstatic
(32,782 posts)The type of ignorance (trolling?) displayed in the OP is beyond the scope of DU discussion. People joining this site should be familiar with and supportive of liberal/progressive/democratic ideology and have basic common sense. Let him/her/it get educated elsewhere. Go to Yahoo answers or something.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)I take great offense to your post. He and his wife were treated less than human and had to be married by a judge who was involved in the abolition movement. Not long after their marriage the Civil War ended. They had very few friends people burnt their barn down harassed their kids and made life miserable for them.
Squinch
(51,083 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Has to be next.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)He claims to be a Zionist Jew
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025304474
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)For instance, the system of placage in New Orleans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placage
The sugar plantations were brutal. So many died around the tremendous heat needed to boil the cane that a constant flow of slaves was needed from Africa. Not to mention the disease in such a tropical climate. This was in contrast to a crop like indigo.
House slaves were better off than field slaves. Lighter skinned had it easier than darker skinned. Children and concubines of the master had it relatively easiest of all.
From one autobiography I read, some masters were sadistic monsters. Others, like Ben Franklin I suppose, retained their humanity and saw slavery for what it was.
12 Years a Slave was a really good movie, BTW, and probably accurate in depicting the lives of many who endured under slavery. Saying "treated like members of the family" isn't the way I'd describe hanging a slave through the ribs by a meat hook.
GirlinContempt
(16,987 posts)Was pretty horrible, actually.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)since Little Blue has said he doesn't bother to read my posts. I nonetheless feel compelled to correct some of this so as not to allow false information to stand unchecked in case anyone comes across his post and decides to take it as fact.
Slave masters certainly did vary considerably as individuals, that is true. Many slave narratives, like that of Frederick Douglass, show a change were a slave started with a reasonable master but was later sold or hired out to a particularly cruel one. To argue that treatment depended on the type of crop produced, however, is not accurate. Certainly some work was harder than others, but the treatment depended on the mores in the particular region as well as the character of the planter. There were literally hundreds of different occupations on sugar plantations. English lacks a word to describe the sugar plantation complex, known as ingenios in Spanish and engenhos in Portuguese. Many slaves worked as field laborers and others operating some of the highly skilled functions necessary to construct, maintain, and operate the sugar mill, or trapiche. See Manuel Moreno Fraginals, The Sugarmill on sugar ingenios in Cuba. He lists the huge variety of slave occupations necessary to keep the sugar plantation complex going.
Historians debated for years where treatment was harsher in the US or in Catholic countries in Latin America. There was no resolution to the debate. Some aspects, like whippings, were more severe in places like Brazil (the country that received the overwhelming majority of African slaves), but they also had greater protection under the law and greater opportunities for manumission. The bottom line is that slavery was incredibly oppressive wherever it existed, though aspects of the institution did vary from region to region and country to country.
While house slaves did not do arduous labor in the fields, they remained under the master's, and mistress's, gaze all the time. To survive, they had to wear a mask of compliance that belied their real feelings (referred to by historians as the "Sambo mask" . They were not "treated like family." Planters told themselves they treated their slaves like family, but one does not own family members or sell off their children. As union troops approached during the war, those household slaves that masters believed were "like family" were often the first to flee. (See Leon Litwack, Been in the Storm so Long). That demonstrated that they certainly did not see their owners as family.
To argue that slave women had it "easiest" is patently false and ignores the reality of life in the Big House. Women working in households were regularly raped, though field slaves were also raped. Masters, however, had easier access to female house slaves. Read, for example, the testimonial by a former slave and abolitionist. Harriet Jacobs, Incidents in a life of a Slave Girl. There is not a single testimonial of a slave woman that does not speak about her rape by a master, overseer, or member of the master's family. It was not uncommon for slave girls to bear their master's children. Plantation mistresses often took their frustrations over their husbands infidelity out on slave girls by inflicting particularly brutal punishments. (See Elizabeth Fox-Genovese, Within the Plantation Household).
To argue that female household slaves were "concubines" who had it easiest is a completely false and offensive statement. It ignores the fact those women were owned, regularly beaten by masters, slaves, and overseers, and that they were repeatedly raped and lived under the close surveillance of the master's family. How "easy" would your life be if you were raped on a continual basis? That reality has led historians to write about slave women's double-exploitation, as both forced laborers and sex slaves. See Deborah Gray-White, Ar'n't I a Woman?: Female Slaves in the Plantation South. I also found this article on double-exploitation online through Jstor, which allows limited free access.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4030682?uid=3739736&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104576137323
I can't help but observe this discussion over slave women "having it easy" dovetails with recent discussions on prostitution and human trafficking. The fact that a slave is owned and has no right to choose her sexual partners, one would think, should be obvious to anyone. Little wonder some think human trafficking not worth concerning themselves with, while others insist that underage girls as young as 9, as one poster insisted, willingly "choose the profession" of prostitution. People give lip service to notions of consenting adults and ignore that a great deal of the sex trade is anything but. Whether now or in the Antebellum era, slaves do not consent to sex. They are forced into it because they are owned. Children and young teens cannot consent to sex because they are under age. These are basic concepts that one would think anyone would understand. Sadly that is not the case.
coljam
(188 posts)at the age of 9 ,I walked in Greenville Miss. for voting rights
onecent
(6,096 posts)what you were doing there except throwing candy to parade watchers...ROFL
coljam
(188 posts)I wonder what my detractors have done other then whine?
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)We have probably done more things than you. At nine a parent would have brought you anyway I don't see that as a great plus. I think you knew what kind of response you would get here and are seeking attention. Didn't your parents teach you positive attention is always better than negative attention?
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)marched and went to jail at the age of 15 for the crime of demanding voting rights for my parents.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)How does that make this post better?
Squinch
(51,083 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)My thoughts exactly
tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Obviously not. Your OP is offensive and ignorant.
Coventina
(27,223 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:22 PM - Edit history (1)
The Benedict Cumberbatch character shows this.
He tries to do "the right thing" but in doing so causes more problems, because he's buying into a corrupt system.
Maybe you should watch the movie again.
on edit: typo
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)bought a woman and had to tear her away from her children.
Coventina
(27,223 posts)The idea that there were "good" slave owners is a fallacy the South tells itself to salve its conscience.
It's a bunch of bull-pucky.
Iggo
(47,591 posts)Or, you know, once.
unblock
(52,489 posts)if you have someone in your family who is under house arrest and who can't leave without a vicious posse hunting them down, beating them up and dragging them (quite possibly literally) back to their "owner".
that knowledge is enough to make any pretense of a nice, cordial, or even friendly relationship a joke. it's more than enough to turn "consensual" sex into rape.
yes, some masters were less brutal than others, i suppose perhaps some masters never inflicted any physical punishment at all (beyond the harsh working conditions themselves). but they quite likely did so because the slaves knew better than to give them any trouble. the threat of violence was always there, because it was encoded into the law.
*everything* slaves did was under duress.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)You see......slavery wasn't that bad!
coljam
(188 posts)Raine1967
(11,589 posts)and here you are in this thread actually agreeing with what you were taught.
You are a Shyster, IMO.
Ohio Joe
(21,776 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)I almost suspect it's posted merely to provoke.
And yes, despite your denial, you are indeed defending slavery.
Squinch
(51,083 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Lint Head
(15,064 posts)packed into one phrase. It's just amazing.
1. They are "slaves". That is mistreatment from the very get go.
2. There "family" is the family they were born into not the one that enslaved them.
3. It's a fact the slaves were rarely sold as a complete family but were broken up and sold based on their particular strength and skills.
4. It's also a fact that they were punished, usually flogging, if they ran away and were caught or simply broke rules of the plantation.
5. They were humiliated into be subservient to a master.
Rex
(65,616 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)171 posts in 4 years,hmmmmm.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Not calling the OP a liar...oh wait, yeah I am.
shanti
(21,675 posts)and more than half of his 172 posts were in the last 90 days. agenda much?
Iggo
(47,591 posts)But that's enough Meta outa me.
raccoon
(31,131 posts)You say that like it's a fact, just because you said so.
I think you're a shameless troll and some on that jury were idiots and/or trolls.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)as a matter of fact woeful ignorance and trolling appear to go hand in hand
coljam
(188 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)All of it. Even when you call your captives Aunt and Uncle, before you send them to their shack to make themselves some ashcakes in the fire before settling into their cold rags for the night, dreaming about the children you sold away from them.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)How can it be any different from masturbating with a plastic vagina? Perhaps I should put rape in scare quotes - how can you rape a thing?
And after all, you are treating her like family (like your wife, who doesn't have the right to refuse sex either) and she may very well be your sister!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The nicer term is 'bedwarming'. See, sounds 'not that bad'.
Squinch
(51,083 posts)mucifer
(23,609 posts)coljam
(188 posts)you have to indict 90% of the US. population as evil. Abolitionists made up a very small % of the population. Many great Americans accepted slavery for what it was as apposed to changing things, for some time this included Lincoln.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:25 PM - Edit history (1)
Even at the dawn of the Civil War many Americans had already condemned slavery as totally evil. The ones who weren't doing so were disproportionately those who owned or directly benefited from the ownership of other humans.
They were wrong and thankfully they didn't prevail in the Civil War.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Go for it. You can report back and tell us how awesome your life is.
coljam
(188 posts)I never said it was good or preferable, its easy to argue with straw men.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)So go for it. There is much slavery still in existence. Go be enslaved by one of those nice little families and tell us how great you have it. You'll be just like one of the family, like a little pet.
How nice for you.
coljam
(188 posts)there you can argue with all the strawmen you can construct.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)You just don't like having your argument applied to you.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I do not believe you studied this in college at all. You would know that slaves were not owned by 90 percent of the population. Lincoln was a product of his times and as such was a white supremacist. He still did what he had to do. He pried those slaves out of some cold dead hands.
Rex
(65,616 posts)WOW.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It's just an asshole summer.
Rex
(65,616 posts)This one must have come straight from the Bundy Ranch...pretty much the exact same thing Bundy said.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I asked if maybe he was the one teaching the 'classes'.
Rex
(65,616 posts)BUT said poster is here only for honest and sincere reasons...no doubt.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)A gathering of lofty folks who dabble in whitewashing history to sooth our modern palettes. This guy is unreal. Reminds me of somebody, dunno who though.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Donald Sterling was the Principal.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)The students were future tea party members. Their diplomas were Klan cards
bravenak
(34,648 posts)With funny hats.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)sheshe2
(84,057 posts)coljam
(188 posts)but to say all masters mistreated or harmed their slaves is to condemn the whole country. By the way it was no picnic to be a Black freeman in the North., and before you go off and say I said it was not better to be free read what I said.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It was stupid. Like Cliven Bundy 'wondering' if maybe we were happier picking cotton. That kinda stupid.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)catbyte
(34,534 posts)people did to my people was vile & evil too.
Grow up.
mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)well, that's a true statement.
But if you are trying to argue that slavery wasn't enforced through
extremely brutal methods, then you need to do some more research.
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)and their descendants weren't considered Americans, since they were only 3/5ths human. I am quite certain that those Black Americans who were treated as 3/5 of a human, believed that things should change.
Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)You are actually positing on a progressive site that slavery was anything other than totally evil???
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)Your post, though, is offensive on many levels. I cannot believe your apology for slavery was left to stand by a jury. Disgusting.
coljam
(188 posts)I feel compelled to turn the other cheek. I feel that if one does not share your opinion they are not entitled to their own or as you said
Thou dost protest too much.
You feel picked on? You are too much!! Nobody forced you to type this nonsense into your internet machine.
You completely whitewashed slavery and you wonder why you're getting schooled by MM. I'm gonna be watching you too. I found this to be a bit unsettling.
coljam
(188 posts)where those who dont have the same opinions ,are brought to juries with self appionted thought police. WAtch me all you want if I cant have my own opinions that might differ from the mainstream I dont want to be in your little club.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Once you release them, they're fair game for criticism. You're not in my club. That's why I need to watch you a bit. Anybody that minimizes the impact of centuries of degradation, abuse, rape, familial separation by force for profit of others, loss of culture, family structures, theft of generational wealth, beatings, lack of freedom of movement, racism, lynchings, millions of deaths aboard ships in the middle passage, and suggests that calling somebody Aunt or Uncle and maybe, maybe, being kinda nice to some of them makes it 'not so bad' needs correction and schooling. Especially if they say they went to college.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Squinch
(51,083 posts)MineralMan
(146,350 posts)If you post stuff that smacks of racism, though, you can count on me to speak up. And apologies for slavery as "not so bad" is about the worst sort of apology for racism.
I do not turn the other cheek in such cases, and will not in the future.
catbyte
(34,534 posts)BTW, were you ignored as a child? Seriously.
Rex
(65,616 posts)The OP is exactly what one would expect from the Bundy Ranch.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)when someone writes an apology for slavery. I will never do that. It is simply completely unacceptable on DU or anywhere, as far as I am concerned. Racism is something I confront whenever it occurs.
Rex
(65,616 posts)The OP KNOWS they made a very offensive thread and now seems to be wallowing in the attention it gained. Sad really.
coljam
(188 posts)I was commenting on the institution of slavery as an economic force not as a racial issue .I am sure the masters didn't hurt thee slaves because they were black. Look at slavery through the eyes of someone born in the 1850s this might give you another opinion.By the way ,many slave owners were black.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)States righters focus on 'the economic institution of slavery'. They are idiots. There are even some black ones! And so what if some slave owners were black? Most were not. And the slaves were not white.
And yes. The masters DID hurt slaves because they were black. They wouldn't have been able to do those horrible things to white people. American slavery was based on race. Period. You cannot separate them. Whitewasher!!!!!
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)issue. To enslave someone means that you consider that person less than a human being. Slavery, as it was in the US, is as racist as it gets. Only black people were slaves here.
I look at slavery from a human perspective. It is and always was simply wrong. Period.
You keep doubling down on this. It's going to catch up with you soon if you continue.
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)I often look at slavery through the eyes of my ancestors who were born in the 1850s as well as before 1850. Most of them were enslaved. Some escaped before the War. At least one of my ancestors was interviewed by the Freedmans Bureau. His wife helped him escape before he could be killed. He was born c.1843.
There were black slave owners in Louisiana. Greed and evil knows no color.
Mira
(22,381 posts)the man who the story is about who describes what happened to him. In beautiful stilted English. He wrote it about 1842, after the ordeal was over and he was saved.
The film follows the book almost to the letter.
so, YES, this is what happened to Salomon Northup (hope I remember the name correctly)
coljam
(188 posts)I just do not believe you can indict a whole society on the experience of one man.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)who are OK with being bought and sold as slaves? So some slaves "acted" happy? I would act happy too if it kept me from torture or death or having my children sold. Cripes.
Slavery was wrong I never said any different.What I did say was humans are not that bad as to mistreat a whole class of people for race. While I have no doubt some mistreated their slaves ,I can not believe human beings are so evil as to mistreat a whole class of people.
Dont look at this post through 2014 eyes put yourself back in the 1850s.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Or were the Jews happy there too, for the most part?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This is bullshit.
Response to arcane1 (Reply #139)
Post removed
arcane1
(38,613 posts)You do realize there are other options between "nobody knew about it" and "everyone was responsible", right?
coljam
(188 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Period.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)Sets of people
Americans during slavery:
All Americans
Americans who owned slaves
Slave owners who mistreated slaves
Germans during the holocause:
All Germans
Germans who participated in the holocaust
Germans who participated in the holocaust who mistreated Jews
What you keep repeating is that you can't believe all masters mistreated their slaves - that is equivalent to saying you can't believe that all Germans who participated in the holocaust mistreated Jews. Which is NOT the equivalent of asking whether one indicts all Americans for what the slave owners who mistreated slaves did.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Juror #6 had an "interesting" take that I would like to refute:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/17/johnezard
The mass of ordinary Germans did know about the evolving terror of Hitler's Holocaust, according to a new research study. They knew concentration camps were full of Jewish people who were stigmatised as sub-human and race-defilers. They knew that these, like other groups and minorities, were being killed out of hand.
They knew that Adolf Hitler had repeatedly forecast the extermination of every Jew on German soil. They knew these details because they had read about them. They knew because the camps and the measures which led up to them had been prominently and proudly reported step by step in thousands of officially-inspired German media articles and posters according to the study, which is due to be published simultaneously in Britain and the US early next month and which was described as ground-breaking by Oxford University Press yesterday and already hailed by other historians.
The reports, in newspapers and magazines all over the country were phases in a public process of "desensitisation" which worked all too well, culminating in the killing of 6m Jews, says Robert Gellately. His book, Backing Hitler, is based on the first systematic analysis by a historian of surviving German newspaper and magazine archives since 1933, the year Hitler became chancellor. The survey took hundreds of hours and yielded dozens of folders of photocopies, many of them from the 24 main newspapers and magazines of the period.
YOUR COMMENTS
So we have posts from this poster stating that "slaves were treated as members of the family' and now a post stating that only a small percentage of Germans knew what the Nazi's were up to. Come on, folk losing property, with stars on their chests, being marched off and only a small percentage of Germans noticed. please consider what the posting of apologies/ rationalizations of human atrocities means to DU. This poster does not appear to be interested in learning anything.
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:49 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I have to agree - the postings when put together don't pass the smell test.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: troll
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I happen to agree with the comment that the atrocities were not widely known to the German people.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Germans knew of Holocaust horror about death camps
Details of deaths of Jews and other groups in concentration camps were well publicised
John Ezard
The Guardian, Friday 16 February 2001 21.09 EST
The mass of ordinary Germans did know about the evolving terror of Hitler's Holocaust, according to a new research study. They knew concentration camps were full of Jewish people who were stigmatised as sub-human and race-defilers. They knew that these, like other groups and minorities, were being killed out of hand.
They knew that Adolf Hitler had repeatedly forecast the extermination of every Jew on German soil. They knew these details because they had read about them. They knew because the camps and the measures which led up to them had been prominently and proudly reported step by step in thousands of officially-inspired German media articles and posters according to the study, which is due to be published simultaneously in Britain and the US early next month and which was described as ground-breaking by Oxford University Press yesterday and already hailed by other historians.
The reports, in newspapers and magazines all over the country were phases in a public process of "desensitisation" which worked all too well, culminating in the killing of 6m Jews, says Robert Gellately. His book, Backing Hitler, is based on the first systematic analysis by a historian of surviving German newspaper and magazine archives since 1933, the year Hitler became chancellor. The survey took hundreds of hours and yielded dozens of folders of photocopies, many of them from the 24 main newspapers and magazines of the period.
Landmark
Its results, Professor Gellately says, destroy the claim - generally made by Germans after Berlin fell in 1945 and accepted by most historians - that they did not know about camp atrocities. He concludes by indicating that the only thing many Germans may not have known about was the use of industrial-scale gas chambers because, unusually, no media reports were allowed of this "final solution". However, by the end of the war camps were all over the country and many Germans worked in them.
Fascism and slavery are evil, and societies that perpetuate them are evil. That's why we went to war to end both.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #159)
Post removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)That is a very intelligent poster!! Un poco de consejo, no? You could self delete and end this trainwreck. Many posters have used this little know trick to end the pain of a rotten thread. Just saying.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Gwen Fortune taught at Loyola University in Chicago. They have a 91% acceptance rate. So pretty much anyone could get in there.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Couldn't get into my university, indeed. We have a prevaricator in our midst.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)Guess what our acceptance rate is?
Seriously, though, I recall her being a respected instructor so I have a hard time believing Coljam got the lesson straight.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)This post gets hidden, but pro-slavery, not so much...
.............
On Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:19 PM you sent an alert on the following post:
Sorry
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5364880
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
YOUR COMMENTS
OTT personal insult, unnecessary, insensitive, rude.
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:30 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This troll is doubling down on his ridiculous OP, and now he's insulting another DUer. Maybe a hidden post will get his attention, or MIRT's.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is a train wreck in progress.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Probably true.lol.Not all of us got into Harvard
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Meh.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Indeed, and no other redeeming value in the post.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The jury system is a mystery. No! Don't explain it. I prefer the mystery of it all.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Juries, man.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)Might be a permanent exit.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)5.17% of his posts have been hidden.
alp227
(32,075 posts)I think it should be easy to escort this user. Just look at that user's hidden posts!
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)When things are reviewed by the Admins around here, the right thing almost always happens.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts).... are posts that were allowed to stand (such as the OP)
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)for not knowing what "thou doth protest too much" means.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)You would have been hooted out of mine. I went to a nice college in the middle of Oakland, CA. If you'd tried to soft-pedal and minimize the role of racism in slavery, I guarantee you'd have been rated, at best, a rather slow fellow.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)Do tell.
ETA: I don't expect an answer. The post I was replying to was hidden and coljam is now unable to post for some time, since his/her transparency page is now visible.
Thanks to the alerter and the jury!
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Book gave me the CREEPs...but is a must read if you are
interested in how an entire culture can become complicit in atrocity.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)You mean like buying whole classes of humans as a commodity? That's not something you consider evil?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Or did they just let the 'saunas' get too hot a 'few' times?
If I remember correctly, one set of people nearly exterminated another set of people. Based on race and lies. You are whitewashing history and it's stupid.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Apparently, the Holocaust was real ... the German people just weren't aware of what was going on ....?????
Clearly no one can be this stupid, the level of idiocy this poster has reached takes some practice
Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Duh. It got indicted by the US government and there was a war prosecuted and won. So yes, we can indict a slave based economy as evil. I feel like Dani Targaryan.
Response to coljam (Reply #101)
mnhtnbb This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)story and author. The OP very clearly questions his story 'how much of this is true' you ask. Not only ignorant but also mendacious and dishonest.
Mira
(22,381 posts)I understand your words and find them simplistic. It cramps my gut to think that after seeing that film, and knowing it was a true story of the lives of many as he describes what he lived, you would think paternalistic treatment of a person who is your slave could be OK.
Many Germans shied away from facing up to what their country did in the Holocaust (the Third Reich lasted 12 years)
and soft pedaled what they heard without trying to really educate themselves about it.
Fear of the truth makes many shallow, i. e. those who continue to watch the Fox channel even after hearing they are being lied to.
Many Americans are doing the same thing about slavery (which lasted about 200 years)
and think that the patronization, head patting that some house slaves received was "good treatment".
They were all not free and all owned like chattel and like livestock, and that's the bottom line.
There is a lot of good literature that could help you expand your knowledge. The one I recently read was about the Great Migration, why and how it happened, "The Warmth of other suns" by Isabel Wilkerson.
mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)in January 1853. He had been in bondage for 12 years when he was rescued.
Copies of the memoir are available on Amazon. I have one.
Brother Buzz
(36,498 posts)The book was dutifully fact-checked back in the day, and the ensuing trial was even covered by the New York Times.
Oh, that beautiful stilted English was an extremely typical style in use in 1853, in both the press and literature.
hlthe2b
(102,509 posts)would somehow consider this "property" to be members of the family in MOST cases. The very fact of "owning" another human being sets forth a division--they become the "other"...
I'm sure some slaveholders were more compassionate than others in how they treated their slaves, some of the "house slaves" earned some endearment in the famly, and certainly not all beat and violently abused them. But, the exceptions very likely do not make the rule. Having lived in the deep South during much of my "formative" years, I heard this assertion that "slaves were members of the family" over and over and over again. I think it is largely an excuse for the inexcusable acts of their ancestors.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Their fathers and husbands considered them part of the family too, albeit with no rights over their children or owning property or inheritance rights. And most husbands probably didn't beat their wives even though women were considered their personal property and they had the legal right to beat them.
Well, except for the very few men who did beat their wives.
Also, only the rich Southern white men who had plantations and large farms owned slaves. There wasn't one in every household.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)The Norman/Celtic South was a military culture. In a military culture:
- Land Owners are in charge.
- Warriors are revered.
- Craftsmen are respected as long as they know their place.
- Workers are the lowest form of life on the planet. Only a completely worthless piece of garbage with no sense of self worth would ever willingly submit to work for another.
You need help around the (small) farm? You buy a slave. Most small farms did not need regular help. But from time to time that is going to be necessary.
The quote on this subject is too short. It should be, "most southerners did not own a slave at any given moment". But pretty much everybody owned a slave at one time or another. For my family it appears we owned a slave or two roughly every other census.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I hate this post!! Booo!! Angry unrec!!! Spittle flying!! Delete post!! Roar!!
Rex
(65,616 posts)What is sad, is that a jury let this one stand!
coljam
(188 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Seriously enjoy your stay!
Squinch
(51,083 posts)but in this context, it makes no sense whatsoever. Is that how they used it in that college you went to?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)If the poster was better known people would see the idiocy better. I am optimistic that it will be deleted or the poster will get it handed to him until he breaks.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)You are thicker than the earth's crust if you actually believe the crap you are typing.
coljam
(188 posts)where you are the self appointed thought POLICE. think about it.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)The KKK. Go you!
You do live in my society, the one where I get to tell you what I think of your thoughts. Yay us!
You're the one who took a KKK sized dump on this forum, be proud of that son!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Now would we? You gave us more work to do. For free. Hmmm. Maybe I can see why YOU don't think it was that bad. You wouldn't be working for free.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)It is not okay to repeat arguments from 19th century slaveholders as fact. She characterized your posts perfectly.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Raine1967
(11,589 posts)jeebus h crispy creme!
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Next time I'll use small words and diagrams for the jury, I guess.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)napkinz
(17,199 posts)nt
d_r
(6,907 posts)called "song of the south" and all the black folks got together and sang songs and this really nice black man named Uncle Remus told the white children all these happy stories about rabbits and tar babies. So I think it was really more like that.
Oh yeah, one other thing. Cool story, bro.
mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)there would undoubtedly be more memoirs like Solomon's. As it is, I'm sure
there are plenty of stories that have been verbally handed down in black
families.
To look at the history from the view of white women with personal knowledge of slavery, you might find it interesting
to read the experience of the abolitionist sisters, Angelina and Sarah Grimke, from Charleston, SC, who were
legends in their own time.
http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/essays/angelina-and-sarah-grimke-abolitionist-sisters
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Born in Slavery: Slave Narratives from the Federal Writers' Project, 1936-1938 contains more than 2,300 first-person accounts of slavery and 500 black-and-white photographs of former slaves. These narratives were collected in the 1930s as part of the Federal Writers' Project of the Works Progress Administration (WPA) and assembled and microfilmed in 1941 as the seventeen-volume Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States from Interviews with Former Slaves. This online collection is a joint presentation of the Manuscript and Prints and Photographs Divisions of the Library of Congress and includes more than 200 photographs from the Prints and Photographs Division that are now made available to the public for the first time.
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/snhtml/
mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)but didn't remember it.
Interesting that it was compiled during a Dem Administration--during the Great Depression--by out of
work writers.
And yet what do we have as a tribute to the south from the Depression era?
Gone With the Wind.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Freddie
(9,279 posts)It's free or .99 for Kindle, public domain
The movie sticks to the book pretty much 100%.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)the plantation owners and their families (all of them without exception) needed to hang in public for their crimes.
linuxman
(2,337 posts)What else should be a capital offense for the children and wives of the perpetrators?
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)all your friends are black. If so, ask them.
I do think you're on the wrong forum, though. There's a definition we have here for what you do. But still you're on the wrong forum.
but one of my sons is.I can talk about race with him very openly.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)with you taking him into slavery, doing all the slavery work chores 'n stuff, picking a bit of cotton here and there for outdoor-activities (very healthy!) and call him a beloved son, ya know, like totally family-wise. Make him go to sleep at 11 p. m. and then wake him up at 4 a. m. Every frackin' day.
That'll be a great social experiment. I'm sure your son's friend would happily obey to be part of this enthralling exercise. I also guess that you never talked with your white son about race, but, since it's sooo obvious, had to ask his African-American friend all the questions, because, woohoo!
That's even worse. Your stand is idiotic. Don't get your brain overworked here.
tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)A nice demonstration to the OP of researching history.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)makes me really want to be a slave. Shelter, food, work (ya know, doing something that supports the community,) eating white cake at family dinners, being protected by my master if I'd be sick or hurt. Heaven.
It's a bit like 'Fifty Shades Of Grey,' I come to believe?
bigtree
(86,016 posts). . . movement, legal and other rights non-slaves took for granted, as a consequence of their slavery. Essentially prisoners of these people who held them; prisoners of the laws which allowed it to exist and persist.
You know nothing about the 'human condition.'
Delete this crap.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Epic jury fail imo.
mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)I think this is not a real person, but a made up identity to come mess with DU.
Rex
(65,616 posts)No doubt we are all misunderstanding him.
mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)Laffy Kat
(16,392 posts)Come back when you are educated. Damn.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)All Americans should be taught to read"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025364737
I barely missed out on being able to post before the lock:
"That's like Sarah Palin saying all Americans should be taught to speak English good."
Darn! Missed it by thaaaat much.
Response to coljam (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)The "aunts", "uncles", "good servants", etc...walked away from slavery and/or demanded payment for their service whatever they're "titles"might be.
Read some of the slaveholders diaries and letters after the war and see how "shocked" they were by the "disloyalty" of Aunt Sarah or Uncle Hercules after Master and Mistress had been so kind to them.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Just basic history from JHS. The OP is purposely pretending to know history and then acts self-righteous when everyone on this forum points out how wrong they are.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Of course the slaves looked "happy" for Master. And, looked "sad" when he died. Despite the complaints of the whites that slaves were "stupid", they were smart enough to know that displeasing they're "kindly" masters could land them with more work, beatings, being sold "down the river" to the cane-fields in Louisiana, or, simply killed.
Rex
(65,616 posts)is just simple trolling...like I said upthread.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)or something close.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Denmark?
Rex
(65,616 posts)But kids do know stinky when they smell it.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)Paternalism was an ideology that planters created to convince themselves that slavery was just. I suspect the Professor did not teach what you claim but rather you misunderstood her, very badly. She likely was talking about an argument by a historian named Eugene Genovese, and you mangled the thing until you came away believing the slaverholder's view of the institution of slavery.
Genovese applied Antonio Gramsci's theory of cultural hegemony to the slave South. He placed paternalism at the center of the master-slave relationship. Both masters and slaves embraced paternalism, though for different reasons and with varying notions of what paternalism meant. For the slaveowners, paternalism allowed them to think of themselves as benevolent and to justify their appropriation of their slaves' labor. Paternalist ideology, they believed, also gave the institution of slavery a more benign face and helped deflate the increasingly strong abolitionist critique of the institution. Slaves, on the other hand, recognized that paternalist ideology could be twisted to suit their own ends, by providing them with improved living and working conditions. Slaves struggled mightily to convert the benevolent "gifts" or "privileges" bestowed upon them by their masters into customary rights which masters would not violate. The reciprocity of paternalism could work to the slaves' advantage by allowing them to demand more humane treatment from their masters. Religion was an important theme in Roll, Jordan, Roll and other studies. Genovese noted that Evangelicals recognized slavery as the root of Southern ills and sought some reforms, but from the early decades of the early nineteenth century, they abandoned arguing for abolition or substantial change of the system. Genovese's contention was that after 1830, southern Christianity became part of social control of the slaves. He also argued that the slaves' religion was not conducive to millenarianism or a revolutionary political tradition. Rather, it helped them survive and resist.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Genovese
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)the different temperament of different masters. I think your professor soft-pedaled it.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)You should probably just stop right there.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)roody
(10,849 posts)from those who experienced it. The human condition is that evil.
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)the black professor.
I only know about experiences that were handed down through my family and extended family. There were no positive stories handed down.
I would guess IF good slave owners existed, they were indeed the exception. Yet, I cannot fathom anyone who considered themselves to be a "good" person would enslave others.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)This guy lasted a long time posting all kinds of crap here.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,415 posts)I really wonder whether this guy is who he says he is, a made up identity, or just
someone with liberal leaning tendencies, but having issues with being able to think
through concepts.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Jesus - that's funny!
herding cats
(19,569 posts)I'd say we're the ones enjoying a vacation.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)This is really quite insulting.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)and: http://sistahvegan.com/tag/gwen-fortune/
and: http://gyfortune.com
Are all of these the same person?
This is your point of reference regarding African American studies?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Wow.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Squinch
(51,083 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)but yours might be an exception
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)I swear. Two hundred years from now there will be these people trying to claim that slaves had it better under slavery. And the Christians of Rome were warmer in the lions' stomachs.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)His profile says he is from Chicago.
Assholery and being a moron know no region.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)American slave.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Skittles
(153,298 posts)she sure didn't teach me that most of them had a swell time
Iggo
(47,591 posts)(EDIT: Never mind. I can see you're on your way out the door. )
Response to coljam (Original post)
Hissyspit This message was self-deleted by its author.
MerryBlooms
(11,776 posts)Disgusting.
I get there are some who think they can 'educate' trolls...
Derp.
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)Response to Tom Ripley (Reply #289)
Hissyspit This message was self-deleted by its author.
stage left
(2,967 posts)And I doubly can't believe that anybody recced it. Shameful!
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Hekate
(91,003 posts)Jesus Christ on a Trailer Hitch.
Cairycat
(1,711 posts)after seeing the movie, in the lobby and in the restroom. Wrong-headed though it is, this attitude is probably pretty common among an awful lot of (white) people. Minimizing something horrific is a natural human inclination, but it is wrong. Slavery was an abomination, and if it was less harsh for some than others, that doesn't make it any less horrible.
fujiyama
(15,185 posts)You're either a tool, a troll, or just plain naive. I'm assuming the former two.
Go read a few fucking books. A little history wouldn't hurt. Then get back to everyone about "slaves treated like family". Where did you get this shit from? I heard this clap trap from the curator at the Confederate History Museum I once visited. And it's clear this "jury" system is a wreck. Why are we allowing slavery revisionism bullshit to stand on these forums? Maybe holocaust denial is next? Maybe the Jews weren't treated all that bad after all, eh?
I really need to get the hell away from this site. It is eating away too much of the little precious free time I have.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)Hambly notes that the awful thing about slavery was that you were totally at the mercy of your master.
He might be relatively kind or a brute, but if he was a brute, there was nothing you could do about it. You were property, and the law was on his side, no matter what he did to you: torture, rape, mutilation. It was all OK. One doctor practiced surgical techniques on his slaves--before the days of anesthesia. There was nothing they could do about it.
If he wanted to sell you away from your family, there was nothing you could do about it.
If he wanted to sell you to anyone, there was nothing you could do about it.
No matter how hard you worked, it was almost certain that you would always be a slave. Worse still, since slavery lasted nearly over 250 years (i.e. slavery was legal for more years than it has been illegal), you worked with the knowledge that your children and grandchildren would be slaves, too.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Well you are hopelessly naive.
What don't you understand about being owned and being subject to any and every whim by your owner?
Sexual abuse and rape was common by slave owners.
Maybe you don't consider that mistreatment. Maybe the master was kindly passing on some superior genetic material.
I think you might want to reconsider DU. Maybe it isn't the place for you.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)is demonstrating, at best, breathtaking, oblivious and offensive ignorance. I do think that the lack of a jury hide of the OP may have been a good thing, in this case, if it allowed the OP to be educated of this.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)readings she required for the class that would support what you're claiming she taught, which
was: I learned that for the most part the slaves were not mistreated...
Fortune, Dr. Gwendoliney (Gwen Y Fortune)
Writer, educator. Personal: Born in Houston, TX; daughter of W Hermon Young and Mittie McCain; divorced; children: Frederic, Phillip & Roger. Educ: JC Smith Univ, BS, 1948; SC State Col, MS, 1951; Roosevelt Univ, MPh, 1972; Nova Univ, EdD, 1979. Career: Chicago Pub Schs, teacher, 1954-66; Dist 68 Skokie Ill, team coord, 1964-70; Oakton Community Col, prof ethnic studies coord, 1970-84; Consultant Discovery, dir 1984-; poems & articles: Dancing as Fast as We Can; Inner Scan; Novels: Growing Up Nigger Rich, 2002; Family Lines, 2003.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/article-1G2-2509906214/fortune-dr-gwendoliney-gwen.html
I am very curious about academic teaching that would promote such a thing, if in fact that
was her objective.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Don't thank me--it's my pleasure, I assure you!©
(Copyright pinboy Seuss, 2014.)
applegrove
(118,900 posts)Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Huh.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)than the film portrayed ... just stirring shit up I presume. Good luck in life.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)How does this OP have ANY recs??
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)Troll level: obvious.
RL
Strelnikov_
(7,772 posts)Iron Man
(183 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)No words. What the hell is your problem?
MatthewStLouis
(904 posts)A slave is a slave.
Wow, are you lost?
spanone
(135,924 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Six Flags Over Georgia.
spanone
(135,924 posts)1monster
(11,012 posts)Olaudah Equiano... The link to the entire book is below.
I don't know what college course you took, but either it was seriously lacking, or you just didn't put into the necessary effort to learn how things really were.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15399/15399-h/15399-h.htm
THE INTERESTING NARRATIVE OF THE LIFE OF OLAUDAH EQUIANO, OR GUSTAVUS VASSA, THE AFRICAN. WRITTEN BY HIMSELF.
tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)MIR Team (Skinner) banned coljam
Reason:
Slavery apologist, nazi apologist, troll.
http://www.democraticunderground.com?com=profile&uid=215393&sub=trans
Real name:
DU Member for: 6 years, 5 months, 23 days
Posts: 188
Recommendations: 5
Star member: No
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Left his account quiet but active and knew to wait until he had a few posts under his belt before he went too far.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'm glad the reasons for coljam's banning are on the record there too.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the heat that rightly goes with us taking the recommendation at face value.
lpbk2713
(42,774 posts)Went out for pizza. Not expected back any time soon.
Orrex
(63,263 posts)doxydad
(1,363 posts)..is channeling George Wallace??
LWolf
(46,179 posts)is to believe that slavery can be excused in any way.
In any system of slavery, some slaves will be treated better than others. That's not "family." That's property. Treating other humans as property is evil.
As to "the human condition?" Humans have shown themselves, over and over and over, to be an aggressive, self-destructive species. The number of atrocities humans have committed upon other humans throughout history and to the present day across the globe are legion.
That's the whole battle: will we focus on our capacity for empathy and evolve into a more enlightened species, or will we continue to feed our propensity for aggression, competition, and violence?
Iggo
(47,591 posts)Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,512 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)is some DUers rec for "discussion value". Personally, I don't do that. If an OP sucks, I don't rec it.
Iggo
(47,591 posts)I call it a Train Rec.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)What the hell, right?
We've done away with the poster, but we don't have a problem with the four members who recommended.
Do you have a problem with them?
I am prevented from speaking further about this set of behaviors.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)shouldn't you?
i'd like to remind you that you're giving me a harder time when you didn't make a peep about the person who made the statement and other similar statements on DU.
so perhaps it's you that has a problem with me.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)If you want to join me, head due West until you hit the ocean, then South for some distance.
I already had some pool time, after about twenty minutes in the ocean. Shit, it's cold but I guess it always was! Nice to have it right outside but also nice to have a heated pool to warm up in, post-ocean swim!
Come on over, call ahead, I'll let you in!
As I type this I see the last bits of color over the ocean, there were dolphins this morning, and particularly close in!
Whales have been sighted of late, but I'm just happy for the view-- that lasts all day and night!
And the waves crashing--- Oddly enough, last night I thought the sounds might be trees breaking or something else, I was concerned, it takes some getting used to!
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you're lucky not to need a wetsuit this summer, so enjoy it, it's a rarity to have ocean temperatures in the 60's this time of year.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Dolphins. I've been coming here and to other points along the coast from Arena Point to Cambria to Pismo, and never have seen daily dolphins!
And, almost better but less reliable, the sound of seals barking, arf arf!
Thanks, CD. I mean it.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and why are four DUers recommending such bullshit?
LexVegas
(6,121 posts)Mr Dixon
(1,185 posts)No slavery was all sing a longs and rainbows, to include the kind treatment of Indians you know more rainbows and equity.
SMH
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Who would tell you such utter fucking whitewashed nonsense. How many of your 'family members' do you own? How many have you breed and sold? Family my ass.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Read some slave narratives. Read anything. Clearly you are not well-informed about american history or the slave trade. Like many Americans. It is shameful...this rampant, self-serving ignorance.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)How do these obvious trolls last so long?
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)It was against custom to refer to an African-American as "Mr." or "Mrs." or "Miss," because those were titles reserved for white folk.
In the pre-civil rights era South, newspapers would refer to black people as ANYTHING but those titles: Farmer Jones, Preacher Brown, Mammy Smith. if the person was older, then it was "Aunt Jemima Johnson" or "Uncle Ben Wilson."
I've noticed, at least among older African-American entertainers, if they introduce another African-American on TV, it's always with a title: Mr. James Earl Jones or Miss Oprah Winfrey. White entertainers introducing the next guess rarely do this.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Thanks, Google search tool!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)so the "unity poll" is...
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I chose not to. For my participation in discussion I was accused of several things.
Not surprising, right?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)He's a funny guy.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Human trafficking, domestic servitude, prostitution, child abuse.
To member's oversimplification of the concept to a binary poll is actually an insult to the intellect.
But it's funny, sometimes in nature we have to look at all organisms, bacteria, parasites, pests, decomposers and the rest as all are great indicators of the health of the ecosystem.
So we have that!
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)seems like you posted an accusation before anyone said a word to you there.
but in this thread and in mine your problem is not with coljam's OP, it's with me.
priorities. maybe if we had more coljams and less me's you'd be happier here.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Seriously, less than an hour away from you!
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)Who allowed you to register on here or are you ten years old?
First of all, they were not slaves, they were people and had a homeland but due to greed, people from that Coast were abducted into slavery to pick cotton. You ever tried to read the history of slavery? guess not and you come here with your bullshit lecture. Please just go away! Read first and tell me what you know about gibbetting a slave, bet you have no idea!