To the older members of DU

[Harmony Blue]

I have the utmost respect and gratitude towards giving us younger generations integral knowledge so we can survive the current and future problems that will be ahead. Sure there are not many of us working or employed currently compared to those that will be retiring soon given the population dynamics in countries with birth rates so low. But we, in the younger generations, witnessed the 2008 collapse wipe out most of the baby boomer savings. As a result you all are holding on longer with your jobs so you can eventually lead a decent humane retirement with dignity. Us younger generations have time to recover and build on resources and wealth from the 2008 collapse, so we understand your precarious situation. We also understand that the stock market isn't a sound investment when you will have to pull money to be able to lead a decent life in retirement. So we are adapting with this new reality and willing to work with the boomers. We are not going to leave you behind or create a world like in Brave New World or The Giver. We are all in this together and we will find a way to make it work out.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. My old fogey suggestion....

Elect more socialists.

And I think communes need to make a return, wherein small groups of friends live together and contribute resources and skills to the wellbeing of the group.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

19. I agree with electing socialists,also buying local.

Here's what is happening in our area on the southern Oregon coast in a town of 1200 persons.
This makes me all the more grateful for the area that we live in. Just a few miles north of us cattle are grazing on thousands of acres of green grass covered hills, with mixed forest.
We haven’t bought any beef from the market for six months, we bought a side of organic grass raised beef from a farmer fifteen miles from our home. We know who, how and where it was raised. even the color. The total cost including butchering, wrapping and labeling to our specifications, was about $3.75 a pound.
Our chicken is raised cage free and can be locally sourced as well. All the eggs we buy are local organic cage free and bought from the people that we know who raised them.
We shop at our new co-op as much as possible and buy organic fruits and vegetables from the people that grew them at farmers markets or at their farms. All of this is priced far cheaper than at the regular market.
All of our seafood production at our port is sustainable fished
This is fast becoming a movement in the area from Northern CA to Washington and may be the wave of the future, and yes I’m aware of all the problems this model would have in large cities.

Click on the video, look at the awards on the left side of the home page.

http://www.oceanresourceteam.org/

[grasswire]

2. The culprit is not boomers.

The culprit is Wall Street and the 1 percent.

And the ultimate "culprit" is greed.

Taxing the hoarding of wealth would fix all of our problems. Not fair to balance it on the backs of the young, not fair to keep cutting programs for the elders.

No more wealth hoarding!

[Enthusiast]

24. You are so right on!

Especially considering social security remains the single largest creditor to the United States government including China. Never hear that on the TV channel do we? That is something they hope we do not recognize.

Most of all we need to stamp out the meme, "Social security won't be there for me when I retire." They have been pushing that meme since at least the early 1970s. We need to preserve social security for everyone in the future because we know the alternatives do nothing but enrich the already wealthy greed mongers at the expense of the working class. Look how they have ripped off pension plans all over the nation! And don't get me started on the 401K.

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. This ...

Most of all we need to stamp out the meme, "Social security won't be there for me when I retire."

It is what made/allowed Mr. and Ms. Working Class to seek "more stable" investments, especially when hyper-return was not their goal.

[jwirr]

55. If we accept this meme then it will definitely NOT be there. We need to fight for the future and

that includes saving social security to for your generation. The cost of living is going up and shows no signs of stopping for various reasons including greed and climate change. We were not able to save much for retirement. And I do not see that you are going to be any different. Social Security is what is saving us. Fight with all you have to protect it for yourselves.

The young adults in my family range in political interest from "I don't give a shit" to my granddaughter who is going around the country to the reservations to help them register and set up ACA for the Obama team. But they all do one thing - they all vote.

One way we got them interested was my severely disabled daughter - they watched the government help her as they grew up and knew that it was important to support them.

[RKP5637]

51. Quite true. Many seniors live in poverty! Many/most seniors are not even remotely close to the 1%.

Seniors are targets to bash for many, much like gays and racial minorities.

[calimary]

67. That's exactly what they are. Hoarders.

High-priced hoarders. Hoarding money when they should be promoting and stimulating the economy and actually creating jobs like they deceitfully claim they do. All they're doing is sitting on their wealth, or hiding it in tax shelters and offshore financial mirages.

[madfloridian]

3. Seniors also lost lots of money in 2008. We paid for our Social Security, pay monthly for Medicare.

So don't be fooled by the right wingers who want to divide the generations by making the elderly seem greedy.

[Cleita]

9. Amen.

I only had two legs of the three-legged stool to begin with and knocking out one of them only leaves me with one leg.

[Live and Learn]

4. Yes, the ridiculousness of attempting to blame certain generations

for another generations misery is just another attempt to divide and conquer us. They throw out anything to divide us and hope it sticks. Don't fall for any of it.

BTW, the same applies to the older generations. We need to stick up for the younger generations and not let them buy us off by letting us keep our "entitlements" but taking them away for the future generations.

[Louisiana1976]

28. +1000

[Uben]

5. No worries

When I finally recovered most (not all) of what I lost in the market, I took it all out. They'll never have the opportunity to screw me again! That's what we should all do. Can you imagine the fear those bastards would have if they had nobody's money to get rich on?

[Live and Learn]

6. +1 But they are ensuring that everyone must play their game

by taking away any other way to save for the future.

[Uben]

10. I know..

.....banks want to use our money for free, too. We once got a small pittance of interest for letting them rape us. Now, it's like 1 or 2 %.
I invested the safest way I could come up with, real estate. Its still a risk, but at least I make the decisions and it has historically returned around 8% annually, which is much better than any bank or stocks these days!

[phylny]

46. Where did you put it when you took it out? n/t

[Half-Century Man]

7. I must have missed the age schism....

The only time I remember I'm old is when I look in the mirror (or eat rare steak, or run, or moving furniture, or.....well never mind). The point isn't how many times we rode our rock around the sun, but the fact we are on the same rock.

I, at 54, bring insight, experience dealing with RWers, the ability to make good coffee, and I know where a lot of the skeletons in the RW closet are.
Those younger than I, bring an enthusiasm which is lost sometimes gaining experience, a heightened sense of outrage of injustice (a cleared view of right and wrong, one not muddied by constant exposure to injustice), and can easily move the office furniture.

We complement each other.

[madfloridian]

8. Third Way president started the generation divide in the 90s. Greedy seniors.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/7856

Dear Grandma and Grandpa:

We write to ask for your help. We're in a financial mess, and unless everyone in our family gets together to fix the problem, we're heading for "economic and fiscal catastrophe." That's not a phrase we picked up on MTV-it's from a recent U.S. government report on the budget deficit.

This year alone America's budget deficit will be nearly $300 billion, which means we're spending $300 billion more than we take in. That's $300 billion on top of the $4.2 trillion debt we've already built up, enough to pay basketball star Michael Jordan's salary for almost a million and a half years.

The truth is, today's retirees get their benefits directly out of the paychecks of working Americans, the majority of whom are less affluent than those they support. True, you paid into the system. But so do we. And right now, we're paying FICA taxes at rates 20 times (inflation adjusted) what you paid as a young worker.

And there's no end in sight.

And here's the real kicker:

We are not ungrateful. We respect and value the sacrifices you've made for our country and have no desire to take money away from those in need. But our generation is in trouble. We were educated in a collapsing school system. Our incomes and skill levels are lower than any previous generation-by the year 2000 over one-third of younger Americans will be living in poverty. And we will be the first Americans to inherit a lower standard of living than our parents. We're not asking that your generation solve all our problems. And there certainly are many other programs that also must be cut to get the deficit under control. But Social Security must be considered, just like everything else in the budget.

Really. Jon Cowan is now prez of the Third Way, and he's still a jerk.

[sabrina 1]

37. So that's where all this started. He's not so young himself anymore, is he? And where is he now I

wonder?

What a moron. Today's retiree's are getting their checks because they supported the generation before AND behind them.

But is it even worth responding to such drivel?

The sad thing is this is what infiltrated the Dem Party and got us the Third Way 'thinking', if one could even call it that.

His face and words should be constantly posted as a reminder of why the Dem Party lost touch with the working class.

[Submariner]

11. Lost almost half my nest egg in 2008

a year away from retirement age. Stay away from the 401K scam. The Wall Streeters suck you in for years then pounce and take it away with gimmicks like derivatives that only they understand and do it without penalty...they even got bonuses for crashing the system.

Another problem is that the Wall Street 401K system financial advisers are predominantly republicans who are inherently dishonest people out for themselves, the rest of the population be damned.

[goldent]

14. I have some different advice for people

If you are within 5 years of retirement, get out of the market now - it is at a record high and so a very good time to pull out. The problem is people see the balances increasing, and greed sets in, and they stay in the market too close to retirement. This is what happened in 2008 because of the big market run-up leading to the crash.

401k is good if your plan has reasonable investment options. There are well known, very simple strategies on how to manage 401k accounts.

[laundry_queen]

20. Also

be very wary of your investment advisors. Some investment professionals will screw you. My parents had this issue. They had a verbal conversation with their investment guy about a year before the '08 crash and told him they were less than 8 years away from retirement, so they wanted to be out of high risk investments and out of the market. The guy never did pull their stuff out of high risk. Thankfully they didn't have most of their money with him, but they still lost a huge chunk of their retirement savings.

Recently there was a bit done on the news here in Canada about the lack of regulations surrounding investment people...they can screw you and the only way you can get your money back is a lengthy court case, because the regulatory bodies cannot make binding decisions on the companies involved. So apparently make sure you check your statements to make sure your money is going where you tell them to put it. That program on tv was a total WTF moment for me. I think I'll be doing my investing myself (nearly done my business degree so no excuse here).

[renate]

29. thanks for that good advice

It's so unfortunate that people who think they're doing the right thing--making their money work for them instead of storing it in a mattress--and trust professionals' advice might fall into the clutches of someone who doesn't really have their interests at heart. I'm sure the vast majority of financial advisers are honest (I'm serious... of course I'm not talking about Wall Street people but advisers who try to balance their clients' portfolios, reduce risk, etc), but what a shame it is that it's hard to tell the good people from the bad if you aren't an expert in financial management in the first place.

Thanks for that advice and that warning!

[goldent]

34. I agree about advisers

And what bugs me is that even "honest" advisers take too much of a cut (in my opinion). I think most people could have a very simple investment plan that would take very little work and not require advisers.

[WinkyDink]

23. And do what? Put it under the mattress?

[goldent]

35. Put it in very safe investments

like CDs. It will be hard to swallow returns of <1% after the market returns of 20% over the last couple years, but this is what you have to do.

If there is some money you won't need for >5 or so years, you could still leave a portion of that in the market.

[sabrina 1]

39. Yes, the market is a big casino. Too bad so many who lost everything DIDN'T put it all under a

mattress. We wouldn't be seeing people in their seventies working the night shift cleaning airports if they had.

It breaks my heart to see people who should be home in bed enjoying their retirement, out late at night trying to earn enough to feed themselves.

I know of no one who didn't lose part of their 'investment' over the past decade or more.

[WinkyDink]

42. No 70-yr-old cleaning airports at night was invested in stocks. And no-one who was invested

in stocks was so 100%, unless they were complete naïfs.

[Eleanors38]

45. Saw the financial toilet backing up in '07, and was out

of the markets totally by '10 without losses. Kept an IRA intact, pulled SS early (63 yoa), and kept my house off market. My situation is still precarious, but I really feel for the younger folks. No surprise, I saw how "work and career" would be ravaged like slop hounds on a dead hog, but it was still bad to see the end of middle class America.

[Cleita]

12. The only advice I can give is never vote for a Republican.

Maybe they might be moderate and more likable than the Democratic opponent. They will always caucus with their party and their party is only interested in big business's interests. Until we get something like instant run off voting, never vote for a third party candidate either. It takes votes from the Democrat.

I hope we get campaign finance reform in the future for your sakes and your future.

[SheilaT]

13. We Boomers are not the problem.

Probably the chief problem is military spending. And all the off-budget or so-called black budget spending. Vastly reduce the military spending and eliminate the black budget stuff and things would be much better.

Every time someone trying to take away any part of the social net goes on and on piously about families who balance their budgets, ask them what family allows someone to spend as much as they want without ever having to account for it?

And I'm beginning to be not quite so sure that Boomers are hanging on to their jobs in such great numbers. Six months ago I would have told you I'd keep on working another three or four years at least, and two months ago I decided I could afford to retire and so I did. I have any number of similarly aged friends who have done exactly that.

If there are not jobs for younger people it's more because corporations are determined not to hire, to try to get as many employees as possible to work off the clock, do what they used to hire two or three workers for, and not care how burned out anyone gets.

We also need laws that have teeth in them to reduce how much those at the top get paid, not try to incite inter-generational warfare.

[Curmudgeoness]

15. Thank you, Harmony Blue.

Your post had me a little teary. It is so good to hear that all the younger generation doesn't hate us for living too long, or working too long. I would love to give my job to someone younger, if I was able to retire yet. But it is coming. A few more years, and I will open it up to a younger person. So will a lot of us, because we just can't keep working forever, even if we want to.

I will say, though, that a lot of my investments in the stock market have come back, so I really didn't lose anything that wasn't on paper. I did not panic and I did not get out of any investments, I held on to them and they have done fine lately---although I was very concerned and don't know if my heart can stand another round of recession. What I am telling you is that for some savings, it is not a bad thing to be in the market, as long as you don't panic. The last thing you want to do is buy high when the market looks great, and sell low when you are afraid you will lose it all.

[MannyGoldstein]

16. Great!

We are all %^&*ed together.

Let's get started on fixing things. What do you suggest?

(I'm exactly on the baby boom/Gen X cusp, in one or the other depending on whose definition is used.)

[Thinkingabout]

17. Some advice to our younger members is to vote for candidates who loves the middle class.

Vote for the candidates who knows unions helped the middle class to rise to maintain Ng decent wages and benefits.

For those who thinks current FICA contribution sustain the money distributed today, at one time the Social Security trust fund was separate from the general fund but was joined together..There have been people paying into FICA who never collected a dime and some who have collected more than they paid in or the earnings.

There are a few things paid for in our years of working which benefit citizens of the US like our interstate system, a product Eisenhower administration brought.

We enjoy turning on lights which has not always been the normal. The older generations provided the labor to install the grids which in turn gives us electricity.

I do not have anything against our younger world but we do not intend to strip the niceties away and I hope in the future more development make more convenient to you and to the future generations.

There was lots of babies born after WW II and the birthrate has dropped, don't know where it will go in the future. I hope we have paved some roads in which many can one day say thank you. Good luck in your lives for you will surely need it.

[JDPriestly]

18. Thank you, Harmony Blue.

I am retired. My children and grandchildren are my great joy. In my family, we stick together through good and bad times.

Our whole nation needs to do the same.

Once you retire, you need far less than you do while you are working. That is why seniors can get by on Social Security and their modest (sometimes no) savings.

Here are some areas in which we need to work together.

A lot of people are worried about how the smaller younger generation will support the older generation, but that will take care of itself. The big challenge is keeping pharmaceutical and other medical costs as low as possible while still providing good care.

We need to all keep healthy all our lives so that we can live long and enjoy life. And let's try to work together to protect the environment for future generations.

Let's also work together to get the very wealthy and corporations to pay the taxes they should owe.

Thanks again.

[WinkyDink]

25. "Once you retire, you need far less than you do while you are working": How do you figure? TAXES,

food, water/sewerage (not using the workplace bathrooms!), medical expenses, car/gas, TV/cable/internet, electricity/gas, lawncare for homeowners, telephone, garbage..

NONE of that is necessarily reduced by retiring---or wasn't, for me. Indeed, my healthcare payments went from $0 (fully covered) to $638/month (partial former employer-covered). My electricity gets more of a work-out with me home.

[noiretextatique]

48. commuting to work is taking more and more of my income

I actually do better on unemployment without commuting costs.

[Enthusiast]

26. +1 again.

[Le Taz Hot]

21. Well, it's nice to know that SOMEBODY

on this board doesn't wish us death. Cheeerist! I went to those threads. Holy cow was that some ugly shit! It's hard to believe that a jury let something like that stand.

[BainsBane]

56. i went back and reread her post

after seeing this to make sure I hadn't missed something. She did not wish anyone death. She commented on a demographic reality that people of color will become the majority, not just of the Democratic Party but of the nation.

After you old guys are gone the rest of us will make up the new majority.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025060206#post41

Death is inevitable. No one is immortal. She didn't wish death upon anyone. Your post is a blatant distortion.

[Le Taz Hot]

57. A WHOLE lot of people were disturbed by that post

so don't EVEN try to make it out that it's just me. Hell, people PMed me about it. I'm not going to sit here and argue about it. You choose to interpret it as sunshine and roses, a whole lot of other people interpreted just exactly the way it was meant -- a vicious attack on older people. Little girl got a time out yesterday because of some of those posts, didn't she? Doesn't matter, she's on Ignore. Buh bye now.

[BainsBane]

59. I'm not interpreting anything

I quoted it, which is more than you did.

[Le Taz Hot]

60. I noticed you didn't quote from the ones

that were hidden by jury decision. I've seen 'em come and I've seen 'em go on DU enough to recognize a future flameout when I see it. Give it time. It'll happen.

[BainsBane]

61. I thought it was the age comment you were offended by

You insisted she wished death upon people. Now it's something else? Bravenak isn't going anywhere. She isn't flaming out. She posted a point of view that you find objectionable. Deal with it or keep her on ignore, but these witchhunting threads are beyond the pale.

[Le Taz Hot]

64. Witchhunting?

Now I'm witchhunting? Poor little picked on baby. So persecuted surrounded by all these racists and stuff. Truly a tragedy.

[NYC_SKP]

68. Jury results: unanimous to leave.

[Le Taz Hot]

69. And sometimes the jury gets it wrong.

[WinkyDink]

22. If the Stock Mkt "isn't a sound investment," nothing else is, at less than 1% interest.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. I invest in durable goods.

Furniture I'll buy once, and it will survive longer than I do. Heavy duty clothes and shoes with 'lifetime replacement' warranties. Few electronics any more, open source for my software needs whenever possible. Learning skills to help me be more self-sufficient.

Seems like a better use of my money than gambling or letting it rot in a bank.

[Frustratedlady]

31. When Bush was in office, I got a sick feeling on how the economy was going.

I opened up DU one morning and there was all kinds of fuss going on about the stock market and shenanigans that were happening. Not being real familiar with DU but concerned, I called my life insurance agent and asked him what he thought.

He said a lot of his older clients were pulling their funds out of the market because they were depending on that money to be there if they needed a nursing home or had major expenses and didn't feel confident enough to take the risk...particularly, due to Bush. He gave me several options and I ended up pulling my funds out of the market and putting it into a guaranteed savings with 3-4% interest, which was much better than other investments at that time. It remained in that account until Bush was gone so I didn't get hurt with the drop.

Slow and steady felt better than taking a chance with the market. I don't trust them. I have taken some of the interest and invested in the market to ride it to the place it is today. Now, I'm wondering about pulling it back and putting it back in that guaranteed savings.

[WinkyDink]

43. I'd like to know what has that % savings, seriously. Something that is insured, as opposed to muni-

cipal bonds.

[Baclava]

30. I retired after divorcing my 2nd wife and got a horse ranch in Idaho, + my house on the beach in FL.

Ask me anything ... they got the big house and cars

yes, I loved all my wives most dearly

[LoisB]

32. That is very nice, thank you. There are already too many divisions in society, we

don't need to add generational. We came out of school with no debt, and no doubt about getting a job in our chosen field. At least that was my experience.

From a retired boomer with two grandchildren who just graduated college and are looking at internships rather than careers. That evidently is the new normal - work in your field for free or work at MacDonald's for minimum wage.

[Jake2413]

33. Thank you

But this would be better directed to Wall Street, the corporatists and the Republicans who were in charge at the time everything tanked.

[OldHippieChick]

36. Thanks, I guess

I've worked my entire adult life, including a short stint when I was a stay-at-home Mom for my son. Both my husbands bled me dry and I have no pension or retirement. I will work until I can no longer work or am dead. I have no choice. Social Security won't begin to pay my bills despite how hard I am trying to reduce my expenses. How does anyone expect to live on $24,000 per year? That doesn't even pay my mortgage, so I tried to refinance, but don't qualify because I don't make enough and have too much debt. Imagine that? Can't sell my house because of the same problem.

So, thanks for saying you're there for us, but not sure there are enough of you to take care of us. I am not alone in my position. I am a professional, but cannot get full time employment because of my age. I can only get contract work and it is sporadic at best.

Enough of my pity-party. We appreciate your sentiment. Just not sure there's much you can really do.

[Crunchy Frog]

38. Get offa my lawn! n/t

[Generic Brad]

40. Define older

I know people in their 70's who refer to me as a kid and I'm in my 50's.

Actually, I have encountered people my age who are less mature than many 20 somethings. We all have a unique life journey and I don't find age to be an indicator of an individuals level of maturity.

[Uncle Joe]

41. Older is when you wake up and realize

you injured yourself while sleeping.

[Samantha]

44. Baby Boomers pre-paid for the retirement of their generation as well as for the one ahead

This was the a result of the agreement made in 80s due to the huge number of retirees expected when Boomers left the work force. It was said at that time due to the massive numbers set to apply for Social Security, a severe drain on the system would result. That compromise resulted in a substantial increase in the FICA tax which did in fact pre-pay our retirement as well as finance the retirement of the generation before us.

So when you read Boomers are retiring on the dime of the generation behind us, that is simply not true. What is true is that Uncle Sam "borrowed" the funds we accrued in our Trust Fund to finance our golden years. And now that the time has come for Boomers to retire, Uncle Sam cannot repay that which he borrowed. Oops!

How to explain it? That is the conundrum.

And so the blame is placed on the Boomers for the problem, and the generation behind us has been brainwashed into believing we are the problem. We are not, we have done more than our fair share to finance our Social Security. The problem is the Big Lie spread by the right which wants to privatize the system for the benefit of the financial community and to the detriment of Social Security participants. And part of that plan is to turn the generation behind us against us.

In order for Uncle Sam to make a withdrawal against the Social Security Trust fund, a like amount of Treasury Bonds equivalent to the withdrawal must be sold. In this economy, that is not so easy to do. Geithner himself publicly admitted this in a televised interview.

It was and still is a simply a political ploy as a plank in the plan of the Right to restructure the Plan for the benefit of the financial community while easing the burden of the Federal Government to repay its debt to Boomers.

Sam

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. Young wolves, show us your teeth. John Steinbeck

[Tuesday Afternoon]

63. One good quote deserves another ...

On Children
Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

65. That quote is keeper.

I've read a lot of Steinbeck but I don't recall that one.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

66. It was from a lecture he was giving young Russian writers in the early '60s.

In the Soviet Union. It might have been late '50s.

[YoungDemCA]

49. Wow

"We're all in this together", says one of the most virulently anti-feminist posters here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4831601

http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4915069

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=153423

Stay classy.

[bettyellen]

50. Yeah, I noticed that too.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

52. yes, it did not go unnoticed by me, either.

the word pandering comes to mind.

[bravenak]

53. Not to mention this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4953402

[Tuesday Afternoon]

62. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that one.

[Autumn]

58. Recommended and thank you.