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sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:30 PM Jun 2014

Let's Try It This Way...Under What Instances, Is It Okay To Praise The President On DU ???

D= Democratic Underground.

Perhaps when he gave us Obamacare? Sure many feel angry that we didn't get single payer, yet spin it any way you want. The votes were not there.

However Children can now stay on their parents policies until 26. That is a lifeline for youth in low paying minimum wage jobs and those coming out of college with large debt. We no longer can be denied healthcare for preexisting conditions. Let's be frank here, how many of you do not have one? Did you know that a victim of spousal abuse was a preexisting condition? People are no longer tied to their jobs due to health care benefits, they can pursue their dreams and get affordable healthcare.

Many of the uninsured were women, 19 million of them. And guess what, they will no longer be charged more for coverage than men. Imagine that! Yeah equality!


We have DODT and Doma. Rights! They have rights now in many states to marry who they want when they want and receive spousal benefits. They can now legally be at the bedside of a loved one when they are sick. That is a human right. Yes, I know the popular response is, he only went for it only when Biden brought it up. You always sell this President short. Change can be slow, painfully slow, yet we are getting there.

This President stands for equality for all, voting rights women's rights, equal rights.


There is more so much more, yet you know that, right? Well maybe not, because here on DU it is only Progressive to bash the President over the head day after day. Well you get the best of the best rec's and soar to the top of the page when you show how loathsome and disappointing this President is. All the while you claim that you voted for him at least twice, yet he has sorely disappointed you.

Bashing the party that is really at fault, the GOP and Baggers sadly don't bring the much needed rec's. So yahoo! Let's jump on Obama! It's so much fun and sadly popular on DU.

Never once, never once do you praise his successes. This goes way beyond "holding his feet to the fire." Way beyond.

He is a man, one man, and no not perfect. I for one never believed he was, nor expected him to be. It must be rather lonely at the top. This is how I see it. You do not vote for someone that you believe will make some much needed changes then turn your back on them. You don't leave them adrift. Obama stated more than once that he can't do it alone.

Our destiny is written by us. When we join together for a common cause, there is nothing we can't do ~ Barak Obama

393 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Let's Try It This Way...Under What Instances, Is It Okay To Praise The President On DU ??? (Original Post) sheshe2 Jun 2014 OP
this just doesn't read well and it comes off as whining. cali Jun 2014 #1
Irony alert KittyWampus Jun 2014 #21
really? how so? cali Jun 2014 #56
... sheshe2 Jun 2014 #78
I kinda definitely think the poster was referring a moi. My name is not Willy. cali Jun 2014 #167
Thought the same thing as I skimmed it DrDan Jun 2014 #233
Good post. Andy823 Jun 2014 #2
This ^ ^ ^ Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2014 #3
I thank you Andy! sheshe2 Jun 2014 #4
Um, when you're in the BOG. theaocp Jun 2014 #5
That's you answer for a Democratic board. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #16
If you want to call someone racist, have the courage to make the accusation directly. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #48
Oh please Hekate Jun 2014 #81
I only visited dis twice... sheshe2 Jun 2014 #101
That's it, she.. the Beautiful BOG that drive a few people insane.. Cha Jun 2014 #347
What a beautiful link! sheshe2 Jun 2014 #348
Yeah, The Barack Obama Group.. Cha Jun 2014 #349
There is indeed! sheshe2 Jun 2014 #351
Nice, I love that gif! The Week Ahead(More to Come..) Cha Jun 2014 #354
Oh no! sheshe2 Jun 2014 #355
Serious? They do that? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #102
I read it more than once, and it was let to stand Hekate Jun 2014 #127
"It is what is IS"- What does that even mean? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #104
the Ta-nehisi Coates article really exposed a lot, i'm sure the biggest racist zimmerman supporters JI7 Jun 2014 #124
What is Dis? theaocp Jun 2014 #232
It's "The Discussionist", the new site that DU admin have set up muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #243
It's the go-to comeback Doctor_J Jun 2014 #332
Did I miss something? theaocp Jun 2014 #231
We need to enter the BOG Dragonfli Jun 2014 #352
This message was self-deleted by its author struggle4progress Jun 2014 #6
Easy Peasy... When One Agrees... One Promotes... When One Disagrees... One Denotes... WillyT Jun 2014 #7
it's short and it rhymes! Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #117
Waste Of Time billhicks76 Jun 2014 #326
it should always be ok , it's a Democratic Board JI7 Jun 2014 #8
problem (with your expectation) is bigtree Jun 2014 #9
I will agree Andy823 Jun 2014 #15
I'd say there's definitely some over-zealousness on all sides bigtree Jun 2014 #24
Its Democratic Underground....its ABOUT the Democratic Party....AND the Democratic Party VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #107
heh . . . it's about what we make it about bigtree Jun 2014 #140
Here....we are SUPPOSED to be zealous! But to come here....its like stepping through the looking VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #144
I'm sorry that's been your experience bigtree Jun 2014 #149
I lurked here for years...came to be informed....and then suddenly it started reading like FR VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #152
I know it's hard to wade through the BS bigtree Jun 2014 #154
That 'bogscum' comment was (is?) used on The Discussionist, not DU muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #193
And was it regulars to DU that used the term? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #250
You don't have to be from DU to know of the Barack Obama Group muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #261
Apparently you just contradicted yourself. As the 2 that used the term are or were former VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #264
I couldn't see that you had a point - you didn't know who was using it muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #266
Interesting perspective. So it's about the Democratic Party, not Democratic policies? Scuba Jun 2014 #201
+1 a whole fucking bunch. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #300
Well said, Scuba MissDeeds Jun 2014 #304
well said NRaleighLiberal Jun 2014 #308
Thanks for the affirmation Fairgo Jun 2014 #342
Excellent post, Scuba! nt City Lights Jun 2014 #365
From the DU "About Us" page: "...we have no affiliation with the Democratic Party." scarletwoman Jun 2014 #213
It's about "politically liberal" people who VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS, though. MADem Jun 2014 #278
But Obama is not a candidate. grasswire Jun 2014 #290
I can't believe you said this: MADem Jun 2014 #292
go read the thread... grasswire Jun 2014 #294
What Joan of Arc reference? MADem Jun 2014 #373
Makes perfect sense to me. Defending right-wing policies and appointments is harmful .... Scuba Jun 2014 #360
No, that's crap. MADem Jun 2014 #374
So you think right-wing policies can only come from Republicans? Scuba Jun 2014 #375
"So you think" the POTUS is a right winger? MADem Jun 2014 #377
Wow, I'm amazed that a longtime DU member would defend that stuff. Scuba Jun 2014 #378
That line of attack is getting stale, too. MADem Jun 2014 #379
Excellent subthread, MADem. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #387
Well, I gotta say.... MADem Jun 2014 #388
A refreshingly even-handed comment Armstead Jun 2014 #24
Bigtree, I have no problem with people speaking out their concerns. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #47
I know some folks just like to aggravate bigtree Jun 2014 #55
I give Obama good grades on drug policy, although that will elicit some howls. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2014 #10
You were referring to this babylonsister Jun 2014 #11
Yes it was what I was referring to, bsis. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #18
Never would I have expected Jamaal510 Jun 2014 #34
I believe i read last night that the reason some can't give him any credit is because....... bravenak Jun 2014 #12
I agree with the part about older people dominating DU. This is anecdotal but I totodeinhere Jun 2014 #26
"where is a forum for young people?" Jamaal510 Jun 2014 #37
We do need a forum for the under 35's. bravenak Jun 2014 #42
Well would you allow me to post there once in awhile if we get one? sheshe2 Jun 2014 #51
Of course anyone should be allowed to post regardless of age but the totodeinhere Jun 2014 #64
Well thanks, totodeinhere sheshe2 Jun 2014 #73
And the alternative is that you never get there. madfloridian Jun 2014 #82
Hopefully our spirit and outlook will remain young and optimistic. totodeinhere Jun 2014 #247
It's what I was referring to also. madfloridian Jun 2014 #248
I never exclude anyone. And you in particular can go anywhere with me. bravenak Jun 2014 #70
Well I know you would not exclude me... sheshe2 Jun 2014 #115
I saw that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #239
I'd like to see a group for college students as well davidpdx Jun 2014 #206
Why you young whippersnapper Hekate Jun 2014 #76
"most posters are older and many are really old." madfloridian Jun 2014 #108
age is just a number icarusxat Jun 2014 #121
I understand what you are saying, but in our society we are often categorized by our age totodeinhere Jun 2014 #249
True and older people are more critical of everything treestar Jun 2014 #215
Oh my Godz Hissyspit Jun 2014 #361
Thank you! scarletwoman Jun 2014 #363
It was damaged already treestar Jun 2014 #372
I am pissed off at the Democratic Partyv because it has become too cozy with... Armstead Jun 2014 #32
After you old guys are gone the rest of us will make up the new majority. bravenak Jun 2014 #41
Ha! Armstead Jun 2014 #52
Immature high horse. You sound so old. bravenak Jun 2014 #60
I believe your insults toward older people here are something quite new. madfloridian Jun 2014 #113
They are not insults. bravenak Jun 2014 #125
You think the issues are mostly with the elderly? madfloridian Jun 2014 #131
Mostly men and mostly older. bravenak Jun 2014 #132
The jury agrees with you. Which carries bad connotations even for us white women. madfloridian Jun 2014 #135
I am sorry for that truly. bravenak Jun 2014 #139
Didn't you just note to another poster that there are "alternatives" to getting old? Number23 Jun 2014 #179
Worth looking at actual voting figures before using your broad brush muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #194
I was really speaking of the proportion of demographic to how they voted. bravenak Jun 2014 #195
This is the first time you've mentioned percentages or proportions muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #202
If you add women to minorities and younger voters you get a majority of dems. bravenak Jun 2014 #203
This JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #358
I am getting old...but I wouldn't have said that to all young people Armstead Jun 2014 #238
You are missing the point I'm afraid Dragonfli Jun 2014 #321
Excellent post! Well said! scarletwoman Jun 2014 #346
Great post, Dragonfli. historylovr Jun 2014 #364
Great post! Those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it, and those ignorant of present reality Zorra Jun 2014 #366
.... 840high Jun 2014 #85
" After you old guys are gone the rest of us will make up the new majority." madfloridian Jun 2014 #80
You should read the whole thing. bravenak Jun 2014 #94
You are saying we all sound alike? Like Republicans? Well You won the jury poll.... madfloridian Jun 2014 #95
I can see that this upsets you. bravenak Jun 2014 #105
Oh, yes it does upset me. I never use the n word, never have. madfloridian Jun 2014 #114
It's been an issue since before i joined. bravenak Jun 2014 #134
Please continue. madfloridian Jun 2014 #137
Okay. bravenak Jun 2014 #141
sad state of things here. PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #245
I think every older DUer should read what you just posted. Every word of it. madfloridian Jun 2014 #98
I agree. bravenak Jun 2014 #116
Who here trashes the black community? Name the older people here at DU who do that? madfloridian Jun 2014 #119
I just told you. bravenak Jun 2014 #130
What is AA? madfloridian Jun 2014 #133
African American. bravenak Jun 2014 #136
Regarding this exchange, I want to draw your attention to something.... msanthrope Jun 2014 #197
Thank you. bravenak Jun 2014 #199
Want clearer? msanthrope Jun 2014 #200
That was pretty bad. bravenak Jun 2014 #219
Probably true davidpdx Jun 2014 #207
Feel free to visit us when we have a thread going. bravenak Jun 2014 #209
There are many here that trash the black community here madfloridian sheshe2 Jun 2014 #145
The only groups I use are Computer Help, Education, and What's for Dinner. madfloridian Jun 2014 #146
I never thought it was racism that you did not know about the group. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #153
They don't have to put down the elderly to "take up the mantle". madfloridian Jun 2014 #157
I don't know where you are getting all that. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #170
I think you are not reading some of the posts carefully. madfloridian Jun 2014 #189
I agree with you Andy823 Jun 2014 #316
Like you, I'm over 60. greatauntoftriplets Jun 2014 #253
what dominates politics in the US is talk radio certainot Jun 2014 #150
We know what they are doing and the people who listen to that talk radio are.... bravenak Jun 2014 #160
we don't have time to wait for it to die out certainot Jun 2014 #166
LOL!! bravenak Jun 2014 #171
i hope you're right, but it needs to happen really soon. they're getting ready to divide up certainot Jun 2014 #285
PS, the OJ trial was maddening. it was a great eg of how effective rw radio was for certainot Jun 2014 #288
I can tell you the problem isn't exclusive to the US davidpdx Jun 2014 #208
I figured the problem was widespread. bravenak Jun 2014 #212
In terms of both voting and issue positions, older white men are a strongly GOP constituency overall YoungDemCA Jun 2014 #280
The younger generation in this thread just denigrated the "old people" here at DU. madfloridian Jun 2014 #284
I'm with you, madfloridian. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #301
Agreed MissDeeds Jun 2014 #305
Well well, one juror agreed that "Yes, old white men in the way of progress. Exactly that." madfloridian Jun 2014 #84
Did you really alert my post? :( bravenak Jun 2014 #96
I think you get a copy. madfloridian Jun 2014 #99
Not if the alert fails i don't. bravenak Jun 2014 #109
Well, you seem to be quite prejudiced against old people. The jury agrees with you. madfloridian Jun 2014 #111
Really, that is your take away that she is prejudiced against OLD people? randys1 Jun 2014 #277
So now the battle is against "privileged white people"? Not just old people at DU? madfloridian Jun 2014 #281
Jury results pintobean Jun 2014 #362
For your inquiring mind: chervilant Jun 2014 #338
Well, good luck with that. Blue_In_AK Jun 2014 #147
In 45 years from now...... bravenak Jun 2014 #151
Well, as I said, good luck with that. Blue_In_AK Jun 2014 #176
I'm a discontent idealist. bravenak Jun 2014 #180
I love your optimism and fierceness lovemydog Jun 2014 #260
Without whining and moaning, the wealthy and powerful and the politicians who are their puppets.... Armstead Jun 2014 #268
The wealthy and powerful and politicians who are their puppets lovemydog Jun 2014 #273
Many people I know..... Armstead Jun 2014 #296
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. lovemydog Jun 2014 #337
and furthermore, your ideal doesn't match reality Armstead Jun 2014 #270
"Liberal on "social issues" if one is apathetic/supportive of the status quo of concentrated... scarletwoman Jun 2014 #53
Perfectly well said. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #302
You are correct of course, unfortunately, many think that only social issues should be liberal Dragonfli Jun 2014 #325
The people who control the wealth and power are happy to throw us the occasional bone totodeinhere Jun 2014 #69
Please don't take this wrong; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #246
I can't speak for everyone but... Armstead Jun 2014 #267
"I don't know many people who have basically progressive leanings who support the status quo" YoungDemCA Jun 2014 #282
yes, and I point to ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #287
Oh you did indeed read about it last night... sheshe2 Jun 2014 #36
Many disrupters. bravenak Jun 2014 #44
I'm old and white (though not male) and I totally agree with you frazzled Jun 2014 #148
This was such a good post. bravenak Jun 2014 #155
You make a very important point about the focus only on class disparity frazzled Jun 2014 #241
Fabulous post. In the AA forum we bust guts laughing at the "warriors" for legalizing marijuana Number23 Jun 2014 #184
I agree lovemydog Jun 2014 #263
Yeah ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #252
Great post! greatauntoftriplets Jun 2014 #256
Excellent post YoungDemCA Jun 2014 #283
Excellent post. redqueen Jun 2014 #318
Got it. freshwest Jun 2014 #368
Wait.. what? Someone actually POSTED for everyone to see that he is critical of the Pres just to Number23 Jun 2014 #177
Oh, did you miss that one? bravenak Jun 2014 #181
Good Lord... Number23 Jun 2014 #185
He has a way with words. bravenak Jun 2014 #186
Well, folks are apparently revealing themselves all over the place lately Number23 Jun 2014 #187
You said it!! bravenak Jun 2014 #190
No, nothing you've said is controversial. NOTHING you've said is new Number23 Jun 2014 #329
Blame the victim. You are a piece of work. PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #220
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #225
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #226
BS PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #227
Bullshit. Our society caters to the older white male. bravenak Jun 2014 #228
That's funny PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #229
So this is the not all men thing? bravenak Jun 2014 #234
I do not PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #236
It's a reference to ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #259
Well that true ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #257
Read and understand ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #255
I certainly do not agree with his/her statement PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #291
Perhaps it's noteworthy to point out ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #311
please explain PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #313
re - read her post and your response. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #315
Still don't see it PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #317
Okay. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #319
That is some ugly fucking shit you just wrote. Le Taz Hot Jun 2014 #320
Oh, bullshit. Hissyspit Jun 2014 #323
DU is not representative of the Democratic Party Cali_Democrat Jun 2014 #328
And you are not representative of the Democratic Party. Hissyspit Jun 2014 #356
Classic example of what bravenak is talking about: Cali_Democrat Jun 2014 #357
I never said it wasn't a bubble. Hissyspit Jun 2014 #359
Please link to a post at a republican board that complains the president is too conservative Doctor_J Jun 2014 #333
I've got your back... Earth_First Jun 2014 #13
LOL~ Thank you Earth_First! nt sheshe2 Jun 2014 #172
I don't understand your question. scarletwoman Jun 2014 #14
I agree that's the way it babylonsister Jun 2014 #43
Right after at least 7 OPs slamming him, but before the next 12 OPs slamming him LadyHawkAZ Jun 2014 #17
Good start, but we can do better. Savannahmann Jun 2014 #19
+1 bigtree Jun 2014 #27
He is an elected official. Not your prom date. And not all things are the GOPs fault. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #20
"prom date". Damn, that's insulting. And in the Reality Based Community- KittyWampus Jun 2014 #23
Criticize all you wish. That is not the issue. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #61
When you preface the apology for a political leader with the idea that he is just a man, imperfect Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #110
"prom date": insulting...and accurate. Shemp Howard Jun 2014 #68
You are indeed a dreamer! sheshe2 Jun 2014 #163
I've been pondering your accusation of sexism... Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #343
Yep, you are a dreamer ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #262
One thing that will be better when HRC is president Doctor_J Jun 2014 #334
There is not a single doubt in my mind that the creepy adoration will continue. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #344
No. totodeinhere Jun 2014 #22
when Obama does something that I agree with, praise. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #28
K&R! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2014 #49
It's on him to do more things that deserve praise, Maedhros Jun 2014 #50
Not a comparison but I even praised George W. Bush once think Jun 2014 #29
I did once too. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #79
... Gman Jun 2014 #30
When Obama does something praise worthy, I'll let ya know quinnox Jun 2014 #31
Way back madamesilverspurs Jun 2014 #33
Absolutely. nt okaawhatever Jun 2014 #57
When he deserves it. AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #35
If his supporters didn't smear his critics so much it would be easier to priase him. Vattel Jun 2014 #38
+1000 navarth Jun 2014 #122
+1 nt laundry_queen Jun 2014 #126
yes grasswire Jun 2014 #159
And that is the point that this group completely misses. Puglover Jun 2014 #237
You are free to praise him whenever you want. City Lights Jun 2014 #39
+100 840high Jun 2014 #58
the poor thangs Skittles Jun 2014 #128
I know...some here jump all over when I mention their idols talk more like Libertarians. Tikki Jun 2014 #188
guess what? even Libertarians are right sometimes Skittles Jun 2014 #191
You just caused a huge amount of cognitive dissonance among the black or white mindsets quinnox Jun 2014 #272
That's pretty much the entire gist of it right there. Doctor_J Jun 2014 #336
I'll praise Obama but I don't see his performane very rosily on the big things Armstead Jun 2014 #40
Obama never ran on a public option. Obama never once in the entire time he was campaigning for okaawhatever Jun 2014 #62
He did not run on what he ultimately supported Armstead Jun 2014 #244
Either you are lying, or this guy in the video is lying, because he said Obama did! Dragonfli Jun 2014 #330
And apparently Jamaal510 Jun 2014 #45
+100 nt okaawhatever Jun 2014 #65
+2000 bravenak Jun 2014 #77
Well said, Jamaal! sheshe2 Jun 2014 #275
Praise him all you want. But people who are less impressed get to say how they feel too. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #46
R#18 & K for, haha and thanks!1 n/t UTUSN Jun 2014 #54
Do what is necessary Android3.14 Jun 2014 #59
K&R baldguy Jun 2014 #63
I agree! NancyDL Jun 2014 #66
Big time K & R SheShe. nt okaawhatever Jun 2014 #67
K & R Very good post sheshe2 Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #71
Good post, she, good post. Hope you've got your baking soda handy for the acid replies. Hekate Jun 2014 #72
Baking soda. Check! sheshe2 Jun 2014 #74
Ha! Now some of you guys are going after the old folks here? We are in the way? madfloridian Jun 2014 #75
No, its how they roll Iliyah Jun 2014 #90
Well, this thread was hijacked from Sheshe by those being insulting to seniors. madfloridian Jun 2014 #93
Who's stopping you from praising? 840high Jun 2014 #83
What do you call prejudice against old people as shown in this forum... madfloridian Jun 2014 #86
ageism m-lekktor Jun 2014 #87
sure I can help you: Obama Hates Old People! Whisp Jun 2014 #91
Obama played the age card early on when speaking of SS ... slipslidingaway Jun 2014 #162
When he stands up and does what is right just as in the instances your post describes. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #88
K&R and thankyou sheshe. Whisp Jun 2014 #89
When they do something right because it is the right thing to do on point Jun 2014 #92
Like bringing home Bowe B Iliyah Jun 2014 #103
First of all, I didn't expect much from him, so I am not disappointed. Hoppy Jun 2014 #97
When he sends Dubya and Cheney to the Hague. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #100
D does not equal Obama underground. that's what the BOG is for nt msongs Jun 2014 #106
K & R Iliyah Jun 2014 #112
bit of a double standard there shaayecanaan Jun 2014 #118
If pragmatism is ones thing then President Obama is hands down the best POTUS ever. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #120
Posting while elderly. Should we continue? madfloridian Jun 2014 #123
I do believe you are serious crim son Jun 2014 #129
I was one of those smallcat88 Jun 2014 #138
When he does something that I think is good for the country. Rex Jun 2014 #142
how can anyone evaluate obama or any rep if they have no clue? certainot Jun 2014 #143
The color of one's skin Never Ever entered my mind ... slipslidingaway Jun 2014 #158
bullshit. the entire left spectrum had no fucking clue and as long as certainot Jun 2014 #164
Sorry but that is just BS, many of us were not buying into to BS from the right ... slipslidingaway Jun 2014 #169
there's an example right in front of us. friday night PBS political pundits repeating certainot Jun 2014 #269
You nailed it. The American subconscious tells all that hating Obama is natural. freshwest Jun 2014 #174
actually re reptilian, i think there's a behavioral reason for much of the irrationality certainot Jun 2014 #265
I'm fairly new here gwheezie Jun 2014 #156
When he does something good, of course MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #161
Not a good time to piss off the "old" folks. madfloridian Jun 2014 #165
Unfortunately Obama began the old vs younger crowd war a long time ago ... slipslidingaway Jun 2014 #182
For what it's worth, Blue_In_AK Jun 2014 #183
k&r... spanone Jun 2014 #168
When he leads instead of follows. He is the weakest president since Gerald Ford. Luminous Animal Jun 2014 #173
+1000. Obama has been way too accomodating to right wing ideas and his reaching out quinnox Jun 2014 #175
And we are left with a pittance instead of a pound. Luminous Animal Jun 2014 #178
I praise (or criticize) policies, not people n/t eridani Jun 2014 #192
When he does something praiseworthy. hobbit709 Jun 2014 #196
I lulz'd. KG Jun 2014 #198
DU rec... SidDithers Jun 2014 #204
When he does something good/right/consistent with traditional democratic values and issues. vi5 Jun 2014 #205
It is never OK, we have to hold his feet to the fire at all times treestar Jun 2014 #210
Shit, by this time his feet should be black! randome Jun 2014 #217
You can say what you like in praise of the President here. bemildred Jun 2014 #211
He's the President 99% of us voted for. He deserves the benefit of a doubt. randome Jun 2014 #214
When he creates utopia for everybody. tabasco Jun 2014 #216
Plus a million to that. And it is happening here. freshwest Jun 2014 #369
A very revealing thread. madfloridian Jun 2014 #218
Some of it derives simply from the usual 'anonymous Internet' aspect. randome Jun 2014 #223
She never implyed that you were racist, that is not true at all. bravenak Jun 2014 #224
You have NEVER seen me post stuff like that. madfloridian Jun 2014 #230
Not all men! bravenak Jun 2014 #235
I'll let Teddy Roosevelt answer your question Martin Eden Jun 2014 #221
Thank you. This should be posted daily. 840high Jun 2014 #279
Great Quote Thanks! raindaddy Jun 2014 #297
It is impossible to speak about the President without praising him AngryAmish Jun 2014 #222
Okay. woo me with science Jun 2014 #298
Very true! Also all liberals agree! Dragonfli Jun 2014 #335
Puts on my Jack Benny pose whistler162 Jun 2014 #240
I have a lot of Jack Benny old time radio shows on my iPod. randome Jun 2014 #242
Under any circumstances you choose. MineralMan Jun 2014 #251
That's an easy one. Whenever he acts like a member of the Democratic Party instead of a member of Zorra Jun 2014 #254
Whenever you want to, LWolf Jun 2014 #258
Never. He's not a pet dog looking for a treat. He's a politician. rug Jun 2014 #271
The Shell Game colsohlibgal Jun 2014 #274
Under any instance you want. NCTraveler Jun 2014 #276
I dont mind at all if praise is given to the president for the things he has accomplished, and rhett o rick Jun 2014 #286
Unfortunately, this is not as much of a Democratic board as thought YoungDemCA Jun 2014 #289
You're not listening then Armstead Jun 2014 #295
"Never once, never once do you praise his successes." A bullshit exaggeration. corkhead Jun 2014 #293
You should change your name from corkhead to poophead with an attitude like that. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #303
When the President says, Enthusiast Jun 2014 #299
Apparently, it's never "okay" here at the New Green Libertarian Underground. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #306
President Obama has Best 4 Months JOB CREATION since BILL CLINTON Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2014 #307
On the rare occasion that he does something a Democrat would be proud of...... bowens43 Jun 2014 #309
Bologna quakerboy Jun 2014 #310
When deserved just as always Fearless Jun 2014 #312
Who would have thought... albino65 Jun 2014 #314
I gotta agree with you on this. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #322
Huh? Iggo Jun 2014 #324
Apparently, those who want to attack him... liberalmuse Jun 2014 #327
Excellent post. Andy823 Jun 2014 #331
Well said Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #353
Great idea but will never happen Jake2413 Jun 2014 #339
hail to the chief barbtries Jun 2014 #340
I don't know how to loooooovvvvve himmmmm... WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #341
Not through works, but by grace alone shall we be saved Dragonfli Jun 2014 #350
Evidently so. WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #367
The entire site is now vanity threads, call-outs, misplaced BOG posts, and feminists posts Doctor_J Jun 2014 #370
True. WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #371
"anyone not supporting Puckett is a GOP infiltrator and Eastasian spy who hates Elizabeth Warren!" MisterP Jun 2014 #389
This question is really silly. Jim Lane Jun 2014 #345
I've seen posters singled out and mocked because their posts were "too favorable" to Obama. MADem Jun 2014 #376
You're illustrating the point I made. Jim Lane Jun 2014 #380
No, you're deliberately misconstruing what I am saying to try to prove your "point." MADem Jun 2014 #381
Are you implying that there is never any rational basis for progressive criticism of Obama? Jim Lane Jun 2014 #382
I'm not "implying" anything. I am coming straight out and saying what I just said. MADem Jun 2014 #383
Do you see ANY fault at all from pro-Obama posters? Jim Lane Jun 2014 #384
I don't see "fault" in opinions. They're just points of view. MADem Jun 2014 #385
OK, we're no longer communicating usefully. Jim Lane Jun 2014 #390
Says the guy who calls arguments he doesn't like 'silly.' MADem Jun 2014 #391
It's best to just complain about everything all the time IronLionZion Jun 2014 #386
K&R. It's sad that your OP is necessary... but it is. nt stevenleser Jun 2014 #392
Thanks Steven! sheshe2 Jun 2014 #393

Andy823

(11,502 posts)
2. Good post.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:36 PM
Jun 2014

Sadly some here believe that their is NO instance that is OK to praise or support the president, and when some of us do praise him or voice support, well it isn't long before that crowd shows up and does their best to change the subject and bring out all the negative things they can about him. It's really sad that some just can't admit he has done any good at all since he took office.

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
16. That's you answer for a Democratic board.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:55 PM
Jun 2014

Our sitting first African American President can only get praise for his accomplishments in a protected group. Really? On DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND he can only be praised in a protective group! Sorry if I repeat myself yet your answer just blows me away.

You want to segregate this President and those that praise his accomplishments! WTF!

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
48. If you want to call someone racist, have the courage to make the accusation directly.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:38 PM
Jun 2014

Your response is one of the most egregious misappropriations of symbolism I've ever seen on this website.

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
101. I only visited dis twice...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:00 AM
Jun 2014

not for me. So I/We are "Bogscum" there. Nice.

Cha posted me a picture of a BOG,

Can't seem to find it but this is close...it might be it~



This doesn't look like scum to me. Thank you my dear Hekate.

Cha

(300,368 posts)
347. That's it, she.. the Beautiful BOG that drive a few people insane..
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:57 PM
Jun 2014
Wetlands Gardens & Bog Gardens


"Are you unfortunate enough to have part of your property on a bog or marsh or to have a swampy ditch or large area of standing water? If your answer is yes, then your biggest landscaping challenge is going to be to change your perspective. Bogs, marshes, and swamps are all vibrant ecosystems that serve an essential environmental function, and you have become a custodian one of these treassures.

Besides being home and breeding grounds to many species of birds, fish, insects, mammals, and rare plants - bogs, marshes, and swamps are one of nature's primary water filters, removing pollutants and excess nutrients, and controling errosion. The quality of many lakes and some streams is heavily influenced by the quality of the bogs and swamps that feed them"


Delightful BOG

BOG

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
348. What a beautiful link!
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:09 PM
Jun 2014

I thought that was the picture that you posted me, but couldn't find the link~ so... Cha.

the Beautiful BOG that drive a few people insane..


We do have a way of doing that don't we~

BOG!

Cha

(300,368 posts)
354. Nice, I love that gif! The Week Ahead(More to Come..)
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:51 PM
Jun 2014


Wednesday



For instance Wednesday!.. The President will travel to Worcester, Massachusetts to deliver the commencement address at the Worcester Technical High School graduation ceremony.

He will also attend a DSCC event in the Boston area.

Monday Tuesday Thursday Friday and Saturday, too..
TOD

Lucky you, she! BOG

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
355. Oh no!
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:57 PM
Jun 2014

I am off Mon Tues and Thurs...not Wed!

Thanks for the heads up anyway...I will be watching. Thanks Cha.

Hekate

(92,322 posts)
127. I read it more than once, and it was let to stand
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:21 AM
Jun 2014

I have posted now and again, but on the whole have no interest in the rampant hostility.

JI7

(89,591 posts)
124. the Ta-nehisi Coates article really exposed a lot, i'm sure the biggest racist zimmerman supporters
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:19 AM
Jun 2014

on dis are regulars on DU .

muriel_volestrangler

(101,759 posts)
243. It's "The Discussionist", the new site that DU admin have set up
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:29 AM
Jun 2014

and where right wingers are allowed. It's not relevant to this thread, but has been brought in anyway.

theaocp

(4,283 posts)
231. Did I miss something?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:51 AM
Jun 2014

I thought you wanted to know "under what circumstances". That seemed pretty clear. What's with the bold terminology? What are you implying?

Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
326. Waste Of Time
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:12 PM
Jun 2014

Really who cares? If they are more concerned with cheerleading and being yes people then they are in the wrong business. Representation is about results...not "feeling good" or expecting others to. We get it. They support the president and want us to more than the policies themselves. If they spent as much energy trying to change things Obama said he expects us to vanguard instead of worrying about who is kissing whose butt then we would get more done. Obama turned out to be way more corporate, way more intrusive and way more willing to give away our advantage to the even more corporate republicans. If we keep moving the center to the right them the next thing they will pull off is forcing us to just be happy we got Jeb Bush instead of Ted Cruz. Well played Bush Crime Family Cabal and your lackeys.

bigtree

(87,404 posts)
9. problem (with your expectation) is
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:49 PM
Jun 2014

. . . there are just too many folks compelled to speak out who have real and pressing concerns (and needs) that sometimes can't bear praise for some unrelated issue or action associated with the President.

Not all good from the WH is going to outweigh every concern out here. It seems like this is a static audience that graces this board, but the membership is so diverse that there are always going to be folks whose life experience and perspective is unable settle for gains made by this administration.

We should be sensitive to those unmet needs and expectations, if we expect any acknowledgment of those things we feel satisfied with.

Andy823

(11,502 posts)
15. I will agree
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:55 PM
Jun 2014

People have concerns, and they should be able to voice them, but some here seem to never admit that he has done "any" good, only bad, and that's just plain wrong, period. Even if they are not happy do they really have to try and hijack threads that are about things many of us find to be worth praise?

bigtree

(87,404 posts)
24. I'd say there's definitely some over-zealousness on all sides
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:04 PM
Jun 2014

. . . I think that's understandable, in most cases. Folks want to feel like they're being heard.

I do think some folks like to stir up trouble and some work to divide the community among ourselves. Still, I think it would be a tragedy if this board only focused on the things we like and didn't find room and understanding of those expressions of dissent and dissatisfaction.

It's not pleasant or comfortable to experience all of that (especially if you don't share those views), but I think it should be understood that there are many folks who can't countenance having their concerns overshadowed by a focus on things that someone else might think are going swimmingly. In most cases, that passionate and determined advocacy is a precious and beautiful thing.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
107. Its Democratic Underground....its ABOUT the Democratic Party....AND the Democratic Party
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:05 AM
Jun 2014

currently owns the Senate and the Executive....and we have a slight chance to take back the House....but what do we hear "overzealousness on all sides".

bigtree

(87,404 posts)
140. heh . . . it's about what we make it about
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:32 AM
Jun 2014

. . . since I came here in 2003, it's been a forum for folks to express concerns as well as a forum to express agreement with the party. It's well-positioned to provide a platform for both sentiments. It's not surprising to find that folks who feel compelled to post here are avid in those expressions; whatever is advocated.

It's the nature of advocacy that dissent or disagreement is amplified more than sentiment which expresses contentment with something or the other.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
144. Here....we are SUPPOSED to be zealous! But to come here....its like stepping through the looking
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:56 AM
Jun 2014

glass....

This shouldn't be a place that treats Democrats like those at Free Republic treats Democrats. For crying out loud....No good deed shall go unpunished....even here. The criticism is not occasional....its constant....exactly like it is visiting one of those sites...and if terms like "Blogscum" are being bandied about towards those that support the Democratic President and others.....How is it any different than trying to hang out at Freeperville?

It certainly doesn't make us look very sure of ourselves and our positions!

bigtree

(87,404 posts)
149. I'm sorry that's been your experience
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:11 AM
Jun 2014

. . . it what it is here, and I'm not sure that anything I say to try and explain why is going to suffice for you.

Try and understand DU this way . . . it began as a voice against the worst of the Bush era abuses and assaults on democracy, dissent, and our constitution. Even though we elected a Democratic president, many of those issues which inspired this forum haven't been resolved, and many of those concerns have actually been exacerbated and deepened; even with the election of and advancement of Democrats.

Moreover, I think it's a mistake to view this forum as some static or cohesive community of concerns. There is a myriad of opinion and interest here - much like the country as a whole - which is never going to be completely assuaged by the balance of power in Washington. To me, that's a refreshing and reassuring dynamic which ensures the vigilance and commitment that is necessary to effect progressive change.

I am sorry that a few folks are working overtime to pluck at your last nerve.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
152. I lurked here for years...came to be informed....and then suddenly it started reading like FR
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:27 AM
Jun 2014

and I decided that people need to push back on that noise....be heard. This place should be the one place Democrats should be expect to be able to see Democrats being respected...and I can hear the reply already "they have to earn respect"....the problem is....nothing is EVER good enough. Its stick stick stick all the time....rarely any carrot. And those that actually try to use the carrot....are called "Bogscum"? How's that for ironic!

bigtree

(87,404 posts)
154. I know it's hard to wade through the BS
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:30 AM
Jun 2014

. . . and I certainly appreciate the efforts, like your own, to present what you believe is good about and proper for our party. More power to you, VanillaRhapsody!

muriel_volestrangler

(101,759 posts)
193. That 'bogscum' comment was (is?) used on The Discussionist, not DU
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 05:30 AM
Jun 2014

Which I now find some people above have shortened to "the Dis" or "dis". It will help keep this thread clear if we keep the 2 sites separate.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
250. And was it regulars to DU that used the term?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:52 AM
Jun 2014

because that is the impression that I got. And is the Dis going to be the another yet another Blog where members of DU are going to be brought up and "discussed"? I note that they seem to know about the BOG....so obviously it WAS people FROM DU...

muriel_volestrangler

(101,759 posts)
261. You don't have to be from DU to know of the Barack Obama Group
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:37 AM
Jun 2014

Cavers know about it, for instance, and they've been attracted here. I can find 2 people using it on The Discussionist; one says they used to post here, but don't any more (which may include that they were banned); the other appears to be someone who is currently suspended from here for have 5 hides in the past 90 days.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
264. Apparently you just contradicted yourself. As the 2 that used the term are or were former
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:41 AM
Jun 2014

members....

And guess what....if you google Bogscum....you get links to Free Republic....

My point stands!

muriel_volestrangler

(101,759 posts)
266. I couldn't see that you had a point - you didn't know who was using it
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:10 AM
Jun 2014

and I found out for you. I pointed out that you don't have to be a DUer of know of the 'BOG'.

So what was your point? And what are the contradictions you think you've seen?

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
201. Interesting perspective. So it's about the Democratic Party, not Democratic policies?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:26 AM
Jun 2014

See, to me, without those traditional Democratic Party policies, the Democratic Party is just the Republican Party in drag. Take a look at Mary Burke, Democratic candidate for Governor in Wisconsin. She's as Republican as they come, policy-wise. Should we support her anyway?

Seems like having a "Democrat" in the governor's mansion who is pushing Scott Walker's policies down our throats is actually worse than having Scott Walker do it. We'll still all get shit on, and Democrats will take the blame.

Fairgo

(1,571 posts)
342. Thanks for the affirmation
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:32 PM
Jun 2014

I thought it referred to democratic policies and the values of democracy, forced underground by its social antithesis. This implies resistance to antidemocratic ideas wherever they are found, even in your own home...especially in your own home.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
213. From the DU "About Us" page: "...we have no affiliation with the Democratic Party."
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:14 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus

The DU Mission Statement in full:
Democratic Underground is an online community where politically liberal people can do their part to effect political and social change by:
• Interacting with friendly, like-minded people;
• Sharing news and information, free from the corporate media filter;
• Participating in lively, thought-provoking discussions;
• Helping elect more Democrats to political office at all levels of American government; and
• Having fun!

After more than a decade online, Democratic Underground still hosts the most active liberal discussion board on the Internet. We are an independent website funded by member subscriptions and advertising, and we have no affiliation with the Democratic Party. Democratic Underground is a truly grassroots community where regular members drive the discussion and set the standards. There is no other website quite like it anywhere on the Internet.

We are always looking for friendly, liberal people who appreciate good discussions and who understand the importance of electing more Democrats to office.

DU is a board for liberals. Beyond agreeing to help "elect more Democrats to political office", DUers are not required to be Democratic Party members, are not required to be Democratic Party partisans, are not required to hold any particular viewpoint with regard to the Democratic Party - and, in particular, are not required to either believe or vow, Democratic Party, right or wrong.

DU is NOT "ABOUT the Democratic Party" - it's about politically liberal people discussing issues. It's a "grassroots community" - that's the Underground part.

You are free to be a diehard Democratic Party partisan here, but it is not a requirement.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
278. It's about "politically liberal" people who VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS, though.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:17 PM
Jun 2014

So to some extent it IS about the Democratic Party. From the TOS:


Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.


Now, sure, we can get away with a lot outside of "election season," but by our words we are known--both to other DUers and the admins.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
290. But Obama is not a candidate.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:50 PM
Jun 2014

Therefore, the TOS you quoted just above does not apply to criticisms of him.

Furthermore, it could be argued that the defense of Obama here interferes with the process of getting Democrats elected to offices in 2014 and 2016. The defense of Obama bogs and clogs up the message board.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
292. I can't believe you said this:
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:07 PM
Jun 2014

".... the defense of Obama here interferes with the process of getting Democrats elected to offices in 2014 and 2016. The defense of Obama bogs and clogs up the message board."

I think that is probably one of the most bizarre comments I've ever seen on this board.


grasswire

(50,130 posts)
294. go read the thread...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:21 PM
Jun 2014

....where multiple members have posted their sense of offense at the vicious attacks here by defenders of Obama.

And I suppose you think the Joan of Arc reference to me is an insult? Duly noted.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
360. Makes perfect sense to me. Defending right-wing policies and appointments is harmful ....
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 04:13 AM
Jun 2014

... to our party as it alienates the base.

I have difficulty fathoming why liberals would defend right-wing policies, and even more difficulty understanding why other liberals can't see this harms our cause.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
374. No, that's crap.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 12:21 AM
Jun 2014

Right wing policies are those touted by Boehner, Cantor, et. al.

Frankly, I'd like, so long as we're talking about bullshit policies, to get rid of all the Paulbot shit, dressed up in liberal affectations, infesting this board like a horde of termites.

There's nothing liberal about those assholes--the attitudes on pot are just coincidental.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
375. So you think right-wing policies can only come from Republicans?
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:05 AM
Jun 2014

Do you believe drone strikes, spying on citizens, chained CPI, too-big-to-fail-or-jail, secret trade agreements and similar policies are consistent with Democratic Party principles?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
377. "So you think" the POTUS is a right winger?
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:46 AM
Jun 2014

You know, those "So you think..." arguments are stale as last week's toast.

I guess all the help those terrible Democrats did in helping Liz Warren win her Senate seat, and vaulting her as a newcomer to the banking committee means nothing?

And when, pray tell, has "chained CPI" been IMPLEMENTED? Not tossed out like a crumb to get assholes to the table, but IMPLEMENTED?

And what "secret trade agreements?" Getting mad because you aren't "in" on the discussions that predate any actual agreements doesn't cut it. Did you want a seat at the table for the Berghdahl negotiations, too? Because it's your "right?"

As for "spying on citizens" you might have crabbed and cried about that a decade--or three--ago...and make sure you yell at your supermarket, drugstore, airline, and remember that every time you give up information to facebook, twitter, and every contest entry, that you are part of the problem. Get rid of that smart phone, too--it can track you, and that's no good (unless you're at the bottom of a ravine). Only drive an old car, the new ones have that ONSTAR thing in 'em that can be activated even if you don't pay for it (Obama didn't invent ONSTAR, either, just so you know). Oh, and let's take down every camera that records the average person a dozen or more times a day--in some urban environments, hundreds of times a day--yeah, that'll happen because you say so.

And, so long as we're complaining, let's tell the Russians, the Chinese, the Brits, the French, the Romanians, the Israelis, and every other nation with skin in the monitoring game to just STOP because we don't LIKE it! That'll convince 'em!

You know, Chicken Little learned that insisting that the sky is falling will persuade people to disregard you after a time. It's a good lesson.

The horse has left the barn. If you think you're going to stop surveillance with a foot stomp and a "That's outrageous" you'd better think again.

It's too late, baby! Even if we don't do it, someone else will. Welcome to the new world--if you don't want to be surveilled, you will have to take active measures to avoid it. Go on--start by getting off the net, and getting rid of that smartphone...it's the only way to be "sure" that no one sees what you're doing!

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
378. Wow, I'm amazed that a longtime DU member would defend that stuff.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 10:14 AM
Jun 2014

"... chained CPI ... tossed out like a crumb to get assholes to the table..."

Yes, the basis for the starting position in any negotiation should be to adopt the opposition's positions as your own. At least if you want to give away the store.

A non-right-wing starting point would be lowering the eligibility age for SS, increasing the benefit and lifting the cap, not "a crumb" of capitulation. Unless you're trying to make things better rather than worse.

And it's not "a crumb" to SS recipients. It's food on the table.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
379. That line of attack is getting stale, too.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 11:36 AM
Jun 2014

Why don't you try, for a change, to see the world as it is?

Instead of pretending that you're "Shocked, SHOCKED!!!!" and "Outraged, I tell you...OUTRAGED!!!!!" at what has been going on for many decades, now?

So, tell me--has the "Chained CPI" thing happened? Hmmmm? No? Anyone? Beuhler?

So stow your faux drama about "crumbs," do. No changes have been made, so stop crying like they have been. The sky is NOT falling.

With people living and working longer, and remaining healthier into old age (and thanks to that Obamacare that some so-called lefties were crabbing about on this message board, they'll be healthier still as time goes by) you're not going to see the age for SS lowered. Holding it will be a massive victory. And since the GOP won't negotiate with the melanin-enhanced POTUS, they won't be able to make any changes. That's a win in my book.

Still and all, Obama can legitimately say he tried to get them to talk to him, though they refused.

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
387. Excellent subthread, MADem.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:19 PM
Jun 2014

Thank you so much for such an entertaining episode. Well done.

I especially liked Alice through the looking glass!

MADem

(135,425 posts)
388. Well, I gotta say....
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:55 PM
Jun 2014

When Alice was mistaken for Joan of Arc I felt like I'd just gone through that doggone looking glass, myself!

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
47. Bigtree, I have no problem with people speaking out their concerns.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:36 PM
Jun 2014

And have compassion to many that do.

However, have you noticed that many here that bash this President daily never express a positive? Never. He is called a POS and that stands on DU and is applauded by many.

Change my title, omit Praise and substitute Criticize. That is part of an OP from last night. They admitted that they do it for the rec's.

bigtree

(87,404 posts)
55. I know some folks just like to aggravate
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:54 PM
Jun 2014

. . . and I know you have no problem with dissent, sheshe2.

Thing is, I don't believe most folks seek out a place called Democratic Underground to express satisfaction, even during a Democratic presidency. Contented people seem to be less likely to speak out than those who believe their voices aren't being heard, who believe their concerns and needs aren't getting enough attention and focus. It seems natural and understandable, to me, that discontent and disagreement would attract more support and attention than those things we feel have been resolved.

Yeah, the internet is a malcontent's haven. I just happen to think the reality of that is a motivating and energizing catalyst in our necessarily perpetual and vigilant advocacy.

Try to not take that dissent personally, and maybe take some comfort in how integral the instinct to agitation is to our efforts to effect progressive change.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
10. I give Obama good grades on drug policy, although that will elicit some howls.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:50 PM
Jun 2014

He and Holder have been very good on sentencing reform, especially around the hideous crack/powder cocaine sentencing disparity, which affects almost exclusively black people. And now, they're actually asking drug war prisoners to apply for clemency.

The Obama administration has not threatened other countries that are enacting or contemplating drug reforms. That's a first.

And they're dealing with medical marijuana and marijuana legalization in a relatively enlightened way. Yeah, there have been raids on medical marijuana people and some of them are rotting in federal prison, but that seems to have lessened in the past couple of years--partly because people know what the Justice Department is going to go after, and partly because Justice has largely limited itself to people who violate its guidelines.

But Obama is basically allowing state-level legalization to take place. They could have fought it in various ways, but they haven't.

babylonsister

(171,263 posts)
11. You were referring to this
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:51 PM
Jun 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025055646
So... Since The GOP Has Become Batshit Racist And Crazy... We Are Not Allowed To Criticize The Pres?


Your post is so timely, thank you! Obama has earned and deserves total respect. I am proud of him and not afraid to say so.

But you knew that.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
34. Never would I have expected
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:17 PM
Jun 2014

to see a thread like that on a place that calls itself DemocraticUnderground. Not in a million years. What a weird thing to post on a site like this.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
12. I believe i read last night that the reason some can't give him any credit is because.......
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:51 PM
Jun 2014

Anti Obama posts get more recs. I believe thats was the jist of it.
My best explanation for the lack of support he receives here as opposed to the broad support he receives from the party as a whole is because the make up/demographics of DU is not representative of the party's demographics nationally. The base of the party is women, Blacks, Asians and Latinos/Hispanics along with LGBT and young people. The make up of DU skews heavily older, whiter, and more male than the Democratic party and has a heavy streak of Libertarianism. We have been seeing a bit of a xenophobic attitude lately, a coldness towards AA's, some homophobia and a nice tasty dash of sexism to round out the course. And those posts can go to jury and stand.
Why would anyone who isn't already here who is of the base as i described above want to join and engage with us just to be called a Obamabot or a reverse racist or a screeching feminist or told to speak english or go away by democrats?
Our democratic board has so much in common with republican boards i like to read and compare us to them and sometimes i LOL at the similarities between their posters and ours.
I have read too many times here that we need to try to reach out to... Drumroll please...... WHITE MEN! Not our base, and our voters, but we need to reach out to old white males and not say stuff that might make them anxious. Why? Because the board is full of them and some of them think that the nation is not paying attention to their problems.


That's my tldr explanation of the sickness that we suffer from.

totodeinhere

(13,139 posts)
26. I agree with the part about older people dominating DU. This is anecdotal but I
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:08 PM
Jun 2014

get the impression from reading comments at this site that most posters are older and many are really old. We have the Baby Boomers Forum and the Seniors Forum. But where is a forum for young people? There isn't one. I don't mean to sound ageist, and I realize we all get there one day, but I wish there were more people closer to my age at this forum.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
37. "where is a forum for young people?"
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:21 PM
Jun 2014

That's actually not a bad idea. I remember when I was on Datehookup.com, that site had separate forums for all the age groups, and people were allowed to post random stuff.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
42. We do need a forum for the under 35's.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:31 PM
Jun 2014

I only used 35 because i'm 33 and i want to be included.
Somebody needs to start one.

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
51. Well would you allow me to post there once in awhile if we get one?
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:41 PM
Jun 2014

I am almost twice your age, bravenak.

totodeinhere

(13,139 posts)
64. Of course anyone should be allowed to post regardless of age but the
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:07 PM
Jun 2014

focus of the forum would be issues important to a younger age group. And conversely I'm sure that I would be welcome in the seniors forum to discuss issues important to seniors. As I said we all get there one day.

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
73. Well thanks, totodeinhere
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:20 PM
Jun 2014

And LOL, I don't consider myself a senior yet and am not part of that forum. Give me another 15 years or so, maybe I will apply. I feel pretty young. You will to when you get here. You are as young as you feel!

totodeinhere

(13,139 posts)
247. Hopefully our spirit and outlook will remain young and optimistic.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:46 AM
Jun 2014

I was just referring to our chronological ages.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
70. I never exclude anyone. And you in particular can go anywhere with me.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:13 PM
Jun 2014

We would need somebody to talk to instead of just the ten or so of us posting gifs and wondering why it's so quiet and lonely.
Maybe i should send out a PM to ten trusted DUERS and ask what they think.

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
115. Well I know you would not exclude me...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

thanks sweetie!

And I just choked on my wine reading your last line!



davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
206. I'd like to see a group for college students as well
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:56 AM
Jun 2014

It seems like the education group is more for policy than anything (nothing wrong with that, my guess is there are a lot of teachers on DU). I support both ideas.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
108. "most posters are older and many are really old."
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:06 AM
Jun 2014

Well you don't have to get older. There are alternatives.

totodeinhere

(13,139 posts)
249. I understand what you are saying, but in our society we are often categorized by our age
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:50 AM
Jun 2014

whether we like it or not. At my age I am ineligible for Medicare for instance. And in some states older people are required to renew their driver licenses more frequently. We can't escape our ages completely.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
215. True and older people are more critical of everything
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:18 AM
Jun 2014

It was the way it was in school and growing up. Every little mistake could be dwelt on, because there wasn't as much information out there as there is now. You had people who were upset at scores of 99% on tests because it was not 100%. Nobody believed in encouragement as they do today. It was all assuming the worst of you and dwelling on mistakes and paying no attention to successes, taking that for granted.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
363. Thank you!
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 09:09 AM
Jun 2014

I read that post and just thought, "WTF???", and quickly moved on - because I couldn't figure out how to even begin to deal with the unbelievable wtf-ness of it.

I'm so glad you posted your response - it's perfect!

treestar

(82,383 posts)
372. It was damaged already
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 09:31 PM
Jun 2014

What do you not get? If you grew up in the 60s you got a lot of criticism. Because they believed you need that or you'd have too big a head.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
32. I am pissed off at the Democratic Partyv because it has become too cozy with...
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:13 PM
Jun 2014

Wealth and Corporate Power.

That's a problem that affects all of us.

Liberal on "social issues" if one is apathetic/supportive of the status quo of concentrated wealth and power doesn't cut it in my book.

I would hope that women,women, Blacks, Asians and Latinos/Hispanics along with LGBT and young people would also be critical of that, because it is oppressing you too. After us "old white guys" are gone, you will have to live under the stifling weight of an entrenched Oligarchy and Monopoly Capitalism unless we all push the party back to economic progressive populism and liberalism.



 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
41. After you old guys are gone the rest of us will make up the new majority.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:29 PM
Jun 2014

I think it will take much less time than the estimates project. I have two children, he has four, i expect to have two more and that will still mean i will have the least amount of children for a Lady in my family. My grandmother had ten. Most of my friends have several already and are continuing to procreate. Many of my white friends are in mixed marriages and have several children who identify as asian or black or hispanic not white. Minorities are not cozy with wall street for the most part, and women especially single one are less likely to vote Republican. So in twenty years we will not have 2 Parties run by Old white Dudes who service the rich. We will be voting ourselves a right good part of their money, praise R'hllor.

You got to realize that power is shifting towards a more liberal society and that it is the old white men who are standing in the way of progress, passing shit laws and fighting against womens rights. The kids growing up see their congressmen screeching about illegals, urban youths, thugs, wetbacks and more. They will not be voting for Republicans. And Democrats better get our shit together and start bringing in the next generation quickly before Republicans decide to get smart, steal our platform, and out voters. Because sorry to tell you, the youth is not interested in the NSA all day everyday, they post every private thought they have on Tumblr, facebook, etc.

They will kill wall street when they get their time. I'll be right here helping them find the means. And we need their help to do it because the old party bosses still control the legislature, for now.
The only way to get the votes is to get the voters engaged. And horror stories about how much you hate Obama is not a good lure when you are fishing in a pond of Obama supporters, and the youth , women, lgbt's, and minorities are supporters of this President. You are driving them away and losing us votes.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
52. Ha!
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:43 PM
Jun 2014

Rather then referring to old white men you ought to get off your immature high horse and start looking at issues in terms of issues and realize that you're playing the same game as the Republicans in terms of stereotypes.

A lot of old white guys were championing civil rights equality, etc. long before the next generation was even a glimmer of possibility.

And if you're biding your time until you get a chance to "kill wall street" I'd say you're blowing it if you ignore the continuing entrenchment of the power of the Gilded Age Oligarchs -- a lot of us old white people have been sounding the alarm about that for years. . And you also a bit blind if you ignore the fact that many of your contemporaries are contributing to that process in their professional lives even as they champion social issues.

What is behind the dislike of much of what Obama does is not because he is liberal on some social issues, or is an African American, or any of that. It's because he is contributing to a wrong turn towards increasing Corporate Power and decimation of the economic safety net for average people. Ad so many democrats have done, they package Republican economic policies in a more appealing social package.

That's the problem. Some old white guys conribute to the probkem, but so does anyone who gives them a pass and says it's okay to do things like sell out the Internet and pass secret right-wing trade agreements



 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
60. Immature high horse. You sound so old.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:02 PM
Jun 2014

I just laid out the world as seen from my view down here in the gutter and my telling you that the vicious of the attacks against the president is not winning voters to our side. It is not helping to engage the youth or women or minorities. You know, the people who make up the bulk of our party.
Those low minded liberals who try to accomplish what they can and move us toward a more perfect union are not the ones who will receive the wrath of the future voters.
And talking down to younger voters and blaming my contemporaries for not fixing the problems caused during YOUR time, during the reagan revolution is silly and disingenuous.

We had two choices for president and we choses the best candidate both times by electing Barack Obama, i am Proud of my choice and i would fill in that bubble for him over McCain or Romney any day. There were no other candidates that appealed to a majority of voters.

If you have problems with the amount of power corporations have you need to look to the legislature and the supreme courts. Blaming everything that has gone wrong in this nation on one man majes you all sound....... Like republicans.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
113. I believe your insults toward older people here are something quite new.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:10 AM
Jun 2014

I don't remember ever seeing it happen here.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
125. They are not insults.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:20 AM
Jun 2014

This is my view of the issue. Sometimes the truth hurts us the most when we are unaware that there was even a problem.
Would you prefer i not give my opinion? The older people in the party need to start reaching out to the next generation of voters, be more inclusive, and notice when there are no minorities in the conversation.
And when we speak out, instead of getting pissed and feeling oppressed, realize that you are not the oppressed, we are. And we are asking to be included in the discussions and sometimes we get offended when our politicians that we support are denigrated by the party. We would like for you to support us a bit more and we will return the favor in the future. Our votes matter and our voices too often get shut out by the cacophony of wailing and the gnashing if teeth.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
139. I am sorry for that truly.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:32 AM
Jun 2014

I am sorry you are hurt by my words and i want you to know that i have never seen you post anything harmful or hurtful to me. We all suffer the sins of others in our nation.
The woman's burden. It's a shame really, white women just barely got the right to vote and own themselves and now we lump them in with their former oppressors. I do feel bad that i hurt you.
I just cannot think of another way to express what i see.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
179. Didn't you just note to another poster that there are "alternatives" to getting old?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:14 AM
Jun 2014

For simply daring to note the obvious -- that many DUers are out of touch with the Dem party and for wanting to have a forum for members close to his age?

For sure, that is something I know I don't remember seeing here before.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,759 posts)
194. Worth looking at actual voting figures before using your broad brush
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:08 AM
Jun 2014

2012 exit poll: http://elections.nbcnews.com/ns/politics/2012/all/president/#exitPoll

Look at the 'Age by Race' category. because 'white 45-64' is by far the largest category, it's also the largest category for 'voted for Obama'. Here's where the Obama vote came from:
White 45-64 11.02
White 30-44 6.84
White 65+ 5.46
White 18-29 4.84
Black 30-44 3.76
Black 45-64 3.72
All other 3.35
Latino 18-29 2.96
Black 18-29 2.73
Latino 30-44 2.13
Latino 45-64 2.04
Black 65+ 0.93
Latino 65+ 0.65

You are right that women are the majority of Democratic voters (29.15% to 21.15% men). The median age for an Obama voter is about 44 (see the figures for the 1st "in which age group are you?" question). If you regard "under 45" as 'youth', then you can say youth make up the bulk of the Democratic party, but most people would use a younger age than that.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
195. I was really speaking of the proportion of demographic to how they voted.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:46 AM
Jun 2014

Blacks vote democratic whether they are male or female, a higher percentage of us vote for democratic candidates than any other group. Hispanics are a growing population demographic and we vote democratic also, a high percentage of us vote dem. Millenials are a large group also and skew left, young minority millenials vote dem in high percentage with white millenials voting dem less than their minority counterparts. As you go up the age demographic the votes for republican candidates go up with minorities skewing left and the majority skewing right. This is not a broadbrush, this is just how the votes go and the political views lay of Americans.

I wasn't saying youth make up the party, i was saying that the party is made up of women, minorities, lgbts and younger voters with white males voting in lower percentages for democratic candidates. 18-35 or 40 to me is a young voter since we don't get to start voting until 18. This information is not controversial.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,759 posts)
202. This is the first time you've mentioned percentages or proportions
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:26 AM
Jun 2014

"The base of the party is women, Blacks, Asians and Latinos/Hispanics along with LGBT and young people. "
"the youth or women or minorities. You know, the people who make up the bulk of our party. "

You seemed to think these categories actually described majorities in the party. That's only true for women. And yes, "it is the old white men who are standing in the way of progress, passing shit laws and fighting against womens rights" is a broad brush.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
203. If you add women to minorities and younger voters you get a majority of dems.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:30 AM
Jun 2014

The majority of dems are not older white men. They are women, minorities and younger voters. I am absolutely correct without even using percentages or proportions. And it is old white men standing in the way of my progress. Most of them are republican.
You have not seen restrictive laws against black votong and womens wombs put forwards by young white women. Old white men push those laws and get them passed.

JustAnotherGen

(32,530 posts)
358. This
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 03:17 AM
Jun 2014
And it is old white men standing in the way of my progress. Most of them are republican.
You have not seen restrictive laws against black votong and womens wombs put forwards by young white women. Old white men push those laws and get them passed.


madfloridian posted in an op she's been away for a year. She doesn't have any idea about what we've been reading around here. It's creepy sometimes. But a youth board or nextgen - that sounds cool. GenX and younger. Cut off at issues for those born in 69 or later.

Why? We understand the deck of cards in play and put Bill Clinton in office.
 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
238. I am getting old...but I wouldn't have said that to all young people
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:08 AM
Jun 2014

There are a lot of young people I admire and respect. It has nothing to do with age.

It has everything to do with attitude. There are huge numbers of young people I would not apply the term immature to.

But your dismissiveness of anyone not within your own definitions of demographically acceptable is immature.

Your statements are engaged in the pitting of people against each other is a lot like the mirror image of the GOP and wingnuts. You equating a lot of stuff by age, race, sex, ethnic etc.

I LIKE President Obama, agree with him on much (including the fact that he has a 3D view of racial issues) etc. Etc. Blah.

But on the issues that ultimately drive who gets what, who holds the power, etc. I profoundly disgaree with many of the things he has done...Just as I profoundly disagree with the

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
321. You are missing the point I'm afraid
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 05:14 PM
Jun 2014
"And talking down to younger voters and blaming my contemporaries for not fixing the problems caused during YOUR time, during the reagan revolution is silly and disingenuous."

The problems became entrenched during the "Reagan revolution" and the problems continue due to the influences of the Democrats that decided to absorb the Reagan economic policies into a new branch of "Democrats" (New Democrats), as well as the party that spawned Reagan, and among the New Democrats that have adopted his policies is our current president.

You need to study up on the topic if you wish to discuss Reaganization issues, because in fact those are centrist positions by design and definition.

A quick primer below: (there is much more to know about the 30 year "Reaganization" effort against our party which is responsible for shifted us so far to the right of center regarding all but social issues, but a few key facts should get you started on understanding "Centrists" and how much damage has been done by them).

New Democrats, in the politics of the United States, are an ideologically centrist faction within the Democratic Party that emerged after the victory of Republican George H. W. Bush in the 1988 presidential election. They are identified with centrist social/cultural/pluralist positions and neoliberal fiscal values. They are represented by organizations such as the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the New Democrat Network, and the Senate and House New Democrat Coalitions.

After the landslide electoral losses to Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, a group of prominent Democrats began to believe their party was in need of a radical shift in economic policy and ideas of governance. The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was founded in 1985 by Al From and a group of like-minded politicians and strategists. They advocated a political "Third Way" as a method to achieve the electoral successes of Reaganism by adopting similar economic policies (Reagan Democrats and Moderate Republicans would provide burgeoning new constituencies after adding these new economic policies and politicians to our tent they contended) While hoping to retain, woman, minorities and other social issues allies with long ties to the party. Such would be their new Democratic coalition forged between fiscal right and social left under the "New" Democratic banner.

The term Third Way refers to various political positions which try to reconcile right-wing and left-wing politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies. Third Way was created as a serious re-evaluation of political policies within various centre-left progressive movements in response to international doubt regarding the economic viability of the state; economic interventionist policies that had previously been popularized by Keynesianism and contrasted with the corresponding rise of popularity for neo liberalism and the New Right. In a sense, 80s Moderate Republicans are almost identical to "Third Way" Democrats, one reason I found Obama's statement that he was, policy wise, closest to an 80's Republican refreshingly honest and at the time I gave him kudos for his honesty.


The idea that such sold out Democrats are liberal simply because they champion liberal social issues is the reason they have been so effective in imposing conservative economic policy during those times when the Republicans lacked the power to do so.

I think your youth is partly to blame for thinking Reaganesque policies are liberal because the DLC Democrats support them when in fact liberal economic theory was part of the party from the thirties until the eighties. A time before you were politically active and so you likely do not know that Keynesian economic policy is a Democratic option that is no longer tried (but yet was the most successful for the larger population than Chicago school economics has ever been).

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
346. Excellent post! Well said!
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:48 PM
Jun 2014
The idea that such sold out Democrats are liberal simply because they champion liberal social issues is the reason they have been so effective in imposing conservative economic policy during those times when the Republicans lacked the power to do so.


I'm of a generation when left economic policies were actually the norm. People who became politically aware after Reagan have no idea how this country used to be, what the Democratic Party used to stand for, what life was like in the pre-corporate globalization years when unions were strong, monopolies were broken up, tariffs protected domestic production of goods, and taxes on the upper income brackets were high.

It has long astounded and saddened me that there are so many people willing to accept social liberalism as sufficient, as the benchmark of being "liberal".

historylovr

(1,557 posts)
364. Great post, Dragonfli.
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:00 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:45 AM - Edit history (1)

This is exactly why I don't see the Democratic party becoming more liberal, even after the "old guys are gone." It has less to do with demographics than the political atmosphere of the last thirty or so years and where it's pulled the party.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
366. Great post! Those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it, and those ignorant of present reality
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 12:25 PM
Jun 2014

are all too often the unwitting tools of the 1%.

For those ignorant history and present reality, I post these educational materials for their convenience, in the hope they may get an inkling of the reality of our present situation, and not doom future generations to lives of complete hopelessness by naively aiding and abetting the real enemies of democracy, freedom, and most everything that is good and beautiful in our world.

Please, stop living in the past, and being part of the problem, and become an active part of the solution, and help give yourselves and future generations a shot at a life with a safe environment and real options for a high quality life.











Don't support this:



Support this:


“Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness – and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe.

The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling – their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.

Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”


― Arundhati Roy

lib·er·al

open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.

con·serv·a·tive

holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
80. " After you old guys are gone the rest of us will make up the new majority."
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:28 PM
Jun 2014

What majority would that be, could you clarify? Please?

So now you think old guys are the problem?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
94. You should read the whole thing.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:55 PM
Jun 2014

He said 'once us old guys are gone', so i repeated it and continued with my line of thought.

The new majority as i see it will be, women, single parents, minorities, and LGBT, the older population skews more white and less liberal in their social views and voting patterns. 5,4,3,2 their time is up. It's a song by Jade from the nineties.


Yes. I do think old males are the problem. Yes. Definitely. Older (white)males are more conservative (vote republican-older black males and hispanic males are quite conservative socially but vote liberal)than my generation, Millennials, and vote to keep the power in the hands of the few. Younger white males and females vote more Democratic but not as much as minorities and single white mothers. They are a part of the solution. So are we, the minorities that get ignored and the women who are called screeching feminists. As a black woman here, i have been told by a fellow liberal to 'go watch real housewives of Atlanta', you know, the 'Black' real Housewives. I have also been told that Black Men leave their families and Black women have too many kids and don't know how to use birth control. The first post got deleted but you can find it in my thread in AA called 'you can say anything you want about black people and get way with it'. The second stood a jury and one of the jurors said i should refute it instead of alerting. An all black jury would have seen the racism in that post, but our jury thinks that kinda post belongs on a democratic site. See what i mean.

Older liberals have been waiting for a big block of liberals to come into the party and change the game. We have arrived. And we do not feel wanted and are concerned by the shutting down of conversation about the issues that matter to us in favor of all day every day Obama criticism. The new big block of voters consist of democrats who like the President and are democrats because of him. So am I. I was not even interested until him because i knew my vote did not count for shit in America. Maybe it still doesn't unless i vote for who the 'real' democrats choose. Or i bash Obama.

Now, you have the right to criticize all day every day if you want to, but it's getting quite difficult to tell the difference between an angry old liberal and an angry old republican. You all sound just alike and i read talking points on Red State and them come to DU and read the same thing here. Cannot tell y'all apart by your words, the only difference i can see is the D.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
95. You are saying we all sound alike? Like Republicans? Well You won the jury poll....
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:58 PM
Jun 2014

so I guess you are the winner.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
105. I can see that this upsets you.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:05 AM
Jun 2014

I feel the same way every time a member posts black on black crime stats and black on white crime stats without even thinking about posting the white on white stats or the white on black stats. And when i was called the worst racist on DU in a pm. And the Asian privilege thread. And the he's not white he's half asian thing. And when a poster used the n word and i asked him what it meant and i got alerted on. The gefilte fish post. The chicken threads. The piece of shit thing, turds and shit is a term used by racists to denigrate blacks, i know that for sure, i went to a majority white HS for three years and i got called that in gym class by a neonazi kid everyday until i snapped on him. Poor guy will probably have breathing problems for ever. Yes. I feel like a winner.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
114. Oh, yes it does upset me. I never use the n word, never have.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

Since the jury thinks what you are saying is okay, then fine....you win.

I have just never seen it happen here. It's a shame, really.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
134. It's been an issue since before i joined.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:26 AM
Jun 2014

Really. I am not trying to pick on older people, i hope to be one eventually science and my health permitting.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
98. I think every older DUer should read what you just posted. Every word of it.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:59 PM
Jun 2014

And then they should read it again.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
116. I agree.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

If i can handle the way the black community gets trashed by America, i think they are strong enough to read it and if it doesn't apply let it fly. I deal with hearing black youth horror stories and hearing white politicians look down on our communities since birth and i have survived and i thrive.
It is painful for me and may be painful for you to read, but this is how a young black woman with a bit of intelligence see's the political landscape of our time.

When we speak out people get upset at our words and their guilty feelings and refuse to see the truth in our statements. We get ignored, told to pipe down, and are redirected to issues that are not the issues that we want to work on. What we say does not count, it gets us rejected and shut down.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
119. Who here trashes the black community? Name the older people here at DU who do that?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:15 AM
Jun 2014

When you make such claims you have a responsibility to follow through with sources.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
130. I just told you.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:24 AM
Jun 2014

In AA there are threads galore about the issues colored folks have on DU. I wrote one myself titled ' you can say anything to black people and get away with it.'

LiberalStalwart wrote one recently.

There is also one titled ' Racism, alive and well in the democratic party'

We also have a running list of racist things said to us by fellow duers.

You should go and take a gander at the threads and read a bit and let me know if you want to discuss any of it.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
136. African American.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:27 AM
Jun 2014

Most here don't realize that we exist in a forum. That's where we go when we want to post interesting articles or just vent or get support when we get hurt.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
197. Regarding this exchange, I want to draw your attention to something....
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:51 AM
Jun 2014

This thread, on seniors and the Democratic Party.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x261440


Which references a prior thread that is also worth reading on the seniors/DU issue. Just some background.

TO THE JURY: It is not against the TOS to refer to prior threads. The admin facilitate this by providing a very handy advanced search function.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
200. Want clearer?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:16 AM
Jun 2014

Google my username and "Black Agenda Report." "Cornel West" "Tavis Smiley" and the relevant usernames and you will see some interesting threads.

To The Jury....it is not against the TOS to refer to prior threads...the admin provides advanced search for just that function.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
219. That was pretty bad.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:26 AM
Jun 2014

I hate the BAR. I really do. And Cornell West is never coming to my inaguration when i get elected to high office. That type of thing really bothers him. I'll invite my driver and all of the hotel staff and leave him crying in the lobby. Then he and Tavis Smiley can make money trashing me all over america. Just like they do to Obama since he never invited Cornell West to something or other and now run around trash talking him. What a waste.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
207. Probably true
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:04 AM
Jun 2014

I only know because I wonder into the Asian Group often because it's the closest thing (besides Americans Abroad) that I identify with given I live in Asia.

That's kind of one of the things about DU that disappoints me at times, that there aren't many groups that are interesting to me.

BTW I grew up in a small town in Oregon (wasn't born there) in the 80's and saw how nasty people were toward minorities, AA in general.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
209. Feel free to visit us when we have a thread going.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:11 AM
Jun 2014

I lived in a small town too once. Think it almost has 3000 people now. Terrible exoerience for me as a child, but when i went back i at least still had my mexican friends there and could at least find a place to fit in. Knowing spanish and having a hispanic surname saved me from being ostrasized, but they still have a certain attitude towards us.

I haven't been over to the Asian group yet, maybe one day i'll stop by and take a look. I wonder if we have a Hispanic forum.

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
145. There are many here that trash the black community here madfloridian
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:56 AM
Jun 2014

I have no clue as to the ages of the people that do, yet it happens daily.

As bravenak said, go read AA. Sadly you did not even know what that was. The small African American community that we have left on DU. It is their forum.

I am white and I am female and I sadly, I have to say a senior of sorts, yet I don't feel old. I can still kick ass and run around most of my younger coworkers.

Please go read the posts there. You will understand much if you do.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
146. The only groups I use are Computer Help, Education, and What's for Dinner.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:04 AM
Jun 2014

It is not racism that I did not know that forum is there. It is because I don't think of things that way.

The people saying those things should be handled promptly by a jury.

I don't know who here is white or black. I was really surprised to see the anger toward old white men, and also the slams by two people about the old people here holding back progress.

It should be their forum. Like the Barack Obama forum should belong to those who post there. There should be no room for attacks like that in either forum.

I do not think that the elderly should be attacked though, it doesn't make good sense.

I have not done a search of the forums, only when I am looking for a particular one. It has nothing to do with age or race...

I am sorry some make those attacks. I never have and I never will. It's wrong.

But attacking the elderly because they are old and saying they are in the way of progress is wrong as well.

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
153. I never thought it was racism that you did not know about the group.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:28 AM
Jun 2014

As for the elderly, I don't really see it that way and I am just over 60. Our party is for all age groups and our youth are so very important for our future. IMHO it was not an attack yet a call for our youth to come together. They are our future madfloridian. They are not shoving us aside, they are taking up the mantle to continue the fight.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
157. They don't have to put down the elderly to "take up the mantle".
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:41 AM
Jun 2014

I have never put down youth, so I don't know where the heck that is coming from.

If that is the future of the party, that seniors are said to be holding us back....then count me out.

When the jury flat out says that old white men are holding back progress, and it is said at a Democratic forum where many of the old white men are very liberal...then there are problems.

If they believe this forum is too "old" for them, they can always start up their own.

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
170. I don't know where you are getting all that.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:41 AM
Jun 2014

Seniors and I am one, are not being put down here or out to pasture so to speak. Our youth are still learning from us, yet soon it will be time to pass the mantle. They have an amazingly strong voice and they will be heard, they learned a lot from us after all. The fight has been going on forever. It will continue until it is done.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
189. I think you are not reading some of the posts carefully.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:43 AM
Jun 2014

Those amazingly strong voices in this thread are not showing desire to learn from us, they are wanting to put us out to pasture.

It's like walking on eggshells around here. This is the first thread though in which I have encountered prejudice toward old people here at DU. I think you need to reread some of the comments.

Lately I have been accused of being racist, right wing, and hating Obama. None of those things are true.

Andy823

(11,502 posts)
316. I agree with you
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 04:06 PM
Jun 2014

I am white, I am male and I am "old", over 60, but I did not get the impression that the younger posters were bashing me, nor did I see anything that suggested the wanted to put us all out to pasture and take over. Seems to me that some of the posters on this thread are lacking in reading skills and shouldn't read things into comments that are not there.

I want to see the younger generations get involved, and I think they see things from a different prospective. I also agree with them that bashing the president daily, as some here tend to do, isn't helping to get younger and minorities involved in the party. My son is only 20 and my daughter will be 23 in October. I love to here their view on things, even if I don't agree on everything they may say, we can at least talk about the problems we have in this country and find common ground. An example is infrastructure, my son and I both agree we need to invest in fixing it and in moving forward like Europe has been doing for ages. We have to keep he young involved, and listen to their ideas.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
150. what dominates politics in the US is talk radio
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:21 AM
Jun 2014

the racism is there and always will be but using it for political purposes, whether it's about the brown hordes coming across the border or some obscure news item chosen by a $200,000 a year high IQ sociopath working in a think tank, we're fucked until thinking americans figure out democracy, which can actually fix this, can't work as long as there are 1200 radio stations reaching 50 mil a week with think tank scripted lies all day long.

they put carnival barkers on every corner and stump in the country with GOP KKK-lite and until americans get that figured out and respond, we're fucked.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
160. We know what they are doing and the people who listen to that talk radio are....
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:51 AM
Jun 2014

Well, they are, hmmm how should i put this, not the demographic that is interested in a more liberal society. They are clowns and the only people who do not know it are the listeners. They are not increasing their audience, their audience is dying off. The big influx of new voters in this country are the hispanic/minority voters and young voters and screaming about brown hordes coming across the border is not going to get much play.

It's actually hurting their cause so i don't mind them so much, because they are reaching to their own choir and letting us listen in to their death rattle. I give it about five years until the hosts start dying off and are replaced by Tejano music stations and 70's music. Really. It's just about over.
The GOP died with Reagan. The just didn't know it yet so they had a Tea Party.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
166. we don't have time to wait for it to die out
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:20 AM
Jun 2014

those motherfuckers already cost us 20 years.

that's why we'll spend valuable time on bergdahl

because the left ignored them those radio stations got us into afghanistan and iraq and almost iran, gave us bush thomas alito roberts, one shitload of deregulation, tax breaks for billionaires, and a reagan-was-god history rewrite that may actually hold!

it made the difference the last 25 years and the bergdahl buzzgasm proves it's still going strong- that's what every local and national talk radio blowhard has been pushing the last week- and it always works because the left would rather listen to a scratched barry manilow cd from under the seat than be aware of what's dominating messaging in the US.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
171. LOL!!
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:49 AM
Jun 2014

I just cracked up for a cool minute!
You're right, i do listen to it everyday, i can't help myself. There was a dude on last week blaming the Africans for slavery and blamed JayZ for everything else. It just sounds so stupid i can't believe anyone with a brain could get into it without approaching it like a comedy act.
But the listeners are the same people who were listening 25 year ago. My stepdad started when Rush first got started and he's been dead for years. Suicide. I really do sort of blame talk Radio and the OJ trial a bit. It drove him mad.
Those people are in their seventies now and with voter ID the republicans are thinning their own herd while they thin ours and we have more voters turning 18 every day so the pendulum has swung left and the nation is playing catch up. Next presidential election will be the one where republicans show fear and start scrambling for fresh voters. It wont work because they hate everybody that does not look like them. We may have lost twenty years to their bullshit, but they lost the future with their hate and xenophobia. The Tea party dug their grave.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
285. i hope you're right, but it needs to happen really soon. they're getting ready to divide up
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:36 PM
Jun 2014

the antarctic.

the problem is still this: in most parts of the US there are no free alternatives for political talk while driving or working. so even if their main demographic is considered to be old white men, it's on in the background everywhere, repeating and repeating, coordinated and loud, and for a lot of people those stations are often the only sources for current events before going home to tell the family and friends. and many of those stations are the loudest in their states, working hard for the koch think tanks leading up to elections, and may be the only sources in emergencies.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
288. PS, the OJ trial was maddening. it was a great eg of how effective rw radio was for
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:42 PM
Jun 2014

politicizing racializing spinning and blowing up otherwise 'mundane' events.

with my conspiracy mindedness i even entertained the notion OJ was set up exactly for that purpose. i forgot what the other more important events were at the time, that it was distracting from.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
208. I can tell you the problem isn't exclusive to the US
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:10 AM
Jun 2014

I see the same problem here in Korea. The older generation is very conservative and stern. Generally Korea has become much more multicultural then it was when I got here 10 years ago. I am not a permanent resident and can vote in local elections and I support the same causes whether it is in the US or Korea. I spent the week before the election prodding my students about voting as many of them are voting for the first time.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
212. I figured the problem was widespread.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:13 AM
Jun 2014

We are seeing a backlash against conservative policies now thankfully. They just don't work for everyone ( except the rich) and are not in the best interest of my family.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
280. In terms of both voting and issue positions, older white men are a strongly GOP constituency overall
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:25 PM
Jun 2014

That doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of older white male Democrats and liberals, but they are definitely a minority if you look at the aggregate.

In contrast, the younger generations-which are also more diverse in terms of race, ethnicity, family structure, and social status than the older generations-are much more Democratic and liberal.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
284. The younger generation in this thread just denigrated the "old people" here at DU.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:31 PM
Jun 2014

That doesn't sound very open-minded to me.

I am older, and I have been under the gun for griping about Obama's attacks on public education, and his tendency to want to cut Social Security while calling it something else.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
301. I'm with you, madfloridian.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 02:17 PM
Jun 2014

But you knew that.

I'm just an old white guy. I must be a racist conservative, lol.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
84. Well well, one juror agreed that "Yes, old white men in the way of progress. Exactly that."
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:37 PM
Jun 2014

Okayyy

I am not a man, but I am white, and I guess I am old. Wonder if old white women stand in the way of progress as well???

Inquiring minds.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
96. Did you really alert my post? :(
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:58 PM
Jun 2014

Tisk, tisk, tisk!

I was typing up a detailed answer to your inquiry and i took my time a bit so that you would get to see the world from my pov. Patience is a virtue. I have lots.

Can i see it then since you did the do? The results of the alert?

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
111. Well, you seem to be quite prejudiced against old people. The jury agrees with you.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:07 AM
Jun 2014

So that tells me a lot right there.

May you live a long healthy life, because the other choices are grim.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
277. Really, that is your take away that she is prejudiced against OLD people?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:11 PM
Jun 2014

wow, i have too many jury issues so I wont say anymore

it is getting to the point here where I have to self censor myself so much that I dont think I can say anything anymore

i would want to say that privileged white people seem to have privilege here as well

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
281. So now the battle is against "privileged white people"? Not just old people at DU?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:28 PM
Jun 2014

I am not sure what is going on here, but I know I post stuff that is clean of those issues.

I did get upset at some of the attacks on the old people at DU.

Read post #41, #26, #94

I do not post about stuff like this usually, and I avoid the threads. But the topic of not wanting the older people here at DU was way way out of line....so I got involved.

Now I am seeing a side of DU I never took part in and did not know existed.

But damn, I am painted with the same brush as anyone who ever did post stuff like that.

We are all individuals regardless of skin color. That works more than one way.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
362. Jury results
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 08:45 AM
Jun 2014

I meant to post these last night.

On Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:15 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Well, you seem to be quite prejudiced against old people. The jury agrees with you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5060650

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Accusing a DUer of prejudice where none was intended. and that 'may you live a long life' is a veiled insult.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:29 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: meh
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: These unnecessary alerts are tiresome.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
338. For your inquiring mind:
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:43 PM
Jun 2014

On Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:15 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Well, you seem to be quite prejudiced against old people. The jury agrees with you. http://www.democraticundergroun

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Accusing a DUer of prejudice where none was intended. and that 'may you live a long life' is a veiled insult.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:29 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: No explanation given Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT Explanation: No explanation given Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: meh Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: No explanation given Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: No explanation given Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: No explanation given Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: These unnecessary alerts are tiresome.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I am dismayed by the ever increasing divisiveness and derision on this forum, especially when one of our most admirable activists (you, mad) is a target. (I'm so grateful for your continued participation on this site.)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
151. In 45 years from now......
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:22 AM
Jun 2014

There will no longer be an America that is a white majority nation. I was born at the perfect time to see this nation finally become a majority minority nation. Demographic do not lie, they tell the tale of what is to come. We need to build on what we have now and make it better for those that will come behind us. There will be no conservative revolution coming to save the republican party from being relegated to the dustbin of history. No southern strategy will increase their numbers, no Reagan democrats to vote against their own interests to harm 'Welfare Queens' that never existed, a 'white hands' ad will not get them votes, and screaming about 'Crack baby future Criminals in training' will make them look like the racist assholes they are.

There's a political storm a brewing, and every year more democrats are born, the middle class has shrunk, and we do not realize yet that we have hit rock bottom. If you fear that a majority minority nation will allow some old white billionaires to keep all of the power and continue to disenfranchise brown people, i hope you live long enough to see that your 'Dream of Spring' come to fruition. Please, stay healthy, stay alive, because we are going to rock their world in about ten sweet years, when my kids are grown and half the nation is brown. You will be overjoyed.

And once we have the power, we will vote ourselves and you a right good part of that wall-street money to pay ourselves back for the Great Financial Catastrophe they caused. And the republicans will go the way of the whigs and a new left will be born. I have great intuition for things and you guys just did not have the numbers to do what you wanted to do. You needed us to be born and grow up. And here we are. And there are a whole lot of Millennials, and we are procreating like crazy.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
176. Well, as I said, good luck with that.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:07 AM
Jun 2014

I will not be around in 45 years unless I live to be 112, which is doubtful. I think most of us old fogies here, of whatever race or gender, had high hopes that we could change the world when we were bright-eyed, idealistic youngsters ("We can change the world, it's dying to get better&quot , and we had just as much disdain for our elders. (Famously, "don't trust anyone over 30.&quot

Somehow we were derailed. Human nature being what it is (again, regardless of race or gender), you may be derailed, too. For your sake and the sake of my children and grandchildren, I hope not, but, again, I don't have much faith that an American Utopia will become a reality. I've got to admire your optimism, though.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
180. I'm a discontent idealist.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:14 AM
Jun 2014

I really believe that now that everyone is getting screwed, and the pain is so widespread, we can change the game. Gotta hit rock bottom before we can brush ourselves off and move forward. Poverty is the great equalizer and we are getting poorer and and more pissed. Either they let us make a decent living or i think head are going to roll. Rich heads in particular. Are the rich are afraid. They should be.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
260. I love your optimism and fierceness
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:23 AM
Jun 2014

and I'm right here with you. We live in interesting times. The seriousness of economic matters, the critical importance in reducing inequality and redistributing wealth back to those who deserve it and actually work hard every day and deserve to afford a home and good health care, demands that we all look ourselves in the mirror and consider our words carefully. We've got to significantly raise taxes on the rich, in my opinion. Bring them back to levels over 50% of their income. Raise capital gains taxes over 40%. Remove all corporate tax loopholes. Demand they pay their share. I know for me, I don't sit back and let it slide in real life when I hear self-described leftists whine and moan about the President or the Democratic Party. I basically tell them that I believe in leftist principals and that requires at minimum voting for the most progressive people on the ballot in every election, and also doing what one can to reject overly corporate machinations. For example, that can be as simple as getting rid of corporate credit cards or taking your money out of a megabank and putting into a local bank or better yet a credit union.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
268. Without whining and moaning, the wealthy and powerful and the politicians who are their puppets....
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:17 AM
Jun 2014

...stay in control.

I refuse to give unquestioning uncritical support to any politician or party whose actions help to further embed the forces of economic oppression and who allow the Corporate Dictates determine their political actions. I don't care what color, race, ethnic background, gender or sexual orientation those politicians might have. When they do things that are wrong we should call them on it.



lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
273. The wealthy and powerful and politicians who are their puppets
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:29 AM
Jun 2014

don't hear your whining and moaning.

People who may or may not vote for progressives do.

I'm not saying don't whine and moan occasionally. We probably share many of the same frustrations. What I'm saying is that folks who hear what you say in real life, and to a probably smaller extent read what one posts on a message board - many of them are undecided about whether to get up off their butts to vote.

You can do what you want. Me personally, I try and be very positive around others who may be listening to me or reading what I write - and try and encourage them to vote for the most progressive possible candidates on every ballot in local, state and federal elections.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
296. Many people I know.....
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:42 PM
Jun 2014

are disappointed and frustrated at Obama and the Democratic leaders, but they basically support them. And they sure as hell don't want the GOP to take over, so they'll do what is necessary to work for Democrats.

And in real life when the subject of politics arises with people who are either conservative anti-Obama or fence sitters, I generally speak favorably and do a sales for Democrats and liberalism despite my pissed offedness at them.

What I most objected to in your post is the characterizing of criticism as "whining and moaning."

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
337. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 07:30 PM
Jun 2014

I'm sorry I used that characterization. Enjoy the rest of the weekend!

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
270. and furthermore, your ideal doesn't match reality
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:28 AM
Jun 2014

What is most likely to happen in the decades ahead is that differences of class, race and sexual identity will become less important, as part of the momentum that is continually occurring.

People of all ethnic origins -- or their kids -- will blend into the "melting pot" just as has already happened. The majority of kids of parents who identify with an ethnic group will identify less with that group than their parents did, and will instead will become culturally assimilated. Just as at one time, if you were Irish you were considers a despised minority. Nowadays, except for St. Patricks Day, and a certain natural pride of heritage, Irish is the same as American.

So the distinctions you make are less important to the advancement of true economic and social progress than issues of moral values, ethics, economic polices, tolerance of diversity and the basic functioning of Democracy than your demographic divisiveness.



scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
53. "Liberal on "social issues" if one is apathetic/supportive of the status quo of concentrated...
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:44 PM
Jun 2014
wealth and power doesn't cut it in my book." Exactly.

Social liberalism, while unquestionably a positive move when it comes to cultural issues, does little to challenge the economic status quo and entrenched power. That's why it's actually relatively easy to do. Our Owner Class Overlords couldn't care less if the proles get gay married - cultural fights are simply useful to them as wedge issues to induce certain members of the population to vote against their own economic interests, but that's all it is to them.

Challenge the actual structure of power, and the iron fist shows up. Just ask Occupy.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
325. You are correct of course, unfortunately, many think that only social issues should be liberal
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:10 PM
Jun 2014

Or perhaps could be liberal, I noticed that a young person here did not see economic liberalism as an important factor, blaming our problems on Reagan and the elder generation while failing to see how his economic policies had been absorbed by the portion of the party that person was holding up as liberal.

It occurred to me that a younger person may not even realize that there are (or were) liberal economic policies as well as social ones.

I tried education, but do not know if it will be understood or researched by that person.

Also:

__ __
[font color="red"]__ __[/font]
__ __
__ __
_____
__ __

Six in the fifth place

totodeinhere

(13,139 posts)
69. The people who control the wealth and power are happy to throw us the occasional bone
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:11 PM
Jun 2014

on social issues as long as they keep a tight grip on economic issues, which is what is important to them. In fact, even in the Republican Party the big boys don't really care about social issues either but they exploit those issues just for the votes of social conservatives.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
246. Please don't take this wrong; but ...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:40 AM
Jun 2014
women, Blacks, Asians and Latinos/Hispanics along with LGBT and young people would also be critical of that, because it is oppressing you too. After us "old white guys" are gone, you will have to live under the stifling weight of an entrenched Oligarchy and Monopoly Capitalism unless we all push the party back to economic progressive populism and liberalism.


We are already critical of all that; but "after (you) 'old white guys' are gone", we will have one less struggle ... we could concentrate all of our efforts on the "entrenched Oligarchy and Monopoly Capitalism"; rather than struggling against those on the left that support a racial/gender/LGBTQ status quo, that would still have us behind ... once we conquer the "entrenched Oligarchy and Monopoly Capitalism."
 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
267. I can't speak for everyone but...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jun 2014

I don't know many people who have basically progressive leanings who support a "racial/gender/LGTB status quo."

Priorities of individuals may differ, as do ways that one believes are best ways to make progress, but it is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.







 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
282. "I don't know many people who have basically progressive leanings who support the status quo"
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:30 PM
Jun 2014

You're right, they don't really exist. But many people who support the status quo claim to be progressive and/or Democrats.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
287. yes, and I point to ...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:41 PM
Jun 2014

Those that argue, "it's all about classism" with a side of "individual freedom", as the prime example.

That is NOT" a mere matter of priorities.

sheshe2

(84,932 posts)
36. Oh you did indeed read about it last night...
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:20 PM
Jun 2014

I responded to that very subject. Rec's~

and you said...

The base of the party is women, Blacks, Asians and Latinos/Hispanics along with LGBT and young people.
snip
We have been seeing a bit of a xenophobic attitude lately, a coldness towards AA's, some homophobia and a nice tasty dash of sexism to round out the course.


Yes indeed we are his base, and we are pretty damn strong. Yet there seems to be a huge problem here. We are being told to sit down and shut up! I agree it stems from white males. Sadly that is the GOP handbook when dealing with minorities. Gawd knows they hate women and gays and wish to suppress AA. We are better than that our party is better than that. I believe we have disrupters.

This is not what the Democratic party is all about.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
44. Many disrupters.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:34 PM
Jun 2014

I see more republican talking points here than i see at politico, and you know they love them some GOP.
Sigh.

We will get this straight, i am sure of it. After this next midterms goes to shit, then we will start thinking about supporting Democrats instead of trashing them. And some accounts will go into hibernation for a year or so until it's time to disrupt again.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
148. I'm old and white (though not male) and I totally agree with you
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:07 AM
Jun 2014

And I've put my money where my mouth is on these subjects here numerous times.

We have a preponderance of posters here who think that being liberal means something about "protecting individual freedoms"--that's conservative libertarianism talking. Liberalism is about our collective societal well-being; it's about the ways we attempt to make our government work for the greatest social good--not our personal ability to smoke a joint in public. If you want to talk about the drug laws that for decades and decades have imprisoned young black males disproportionately and ruined lives, I'm with you. But I don't really give a rat's ass (one way or another) about your "individual right" to smoke dope. There are collective rights—like fairness in housing and education—that are critical to a great number of people in this country. And if we want a civil and safe society, yes, we need gun control laws. Your "individual rights" do not trump the common good.

And then we have the group suddenly obsessed with jobs and the economy and income inequality, as if these problems started yesterday. They're suddenly obsessed because for the first time (since the Great Depression) white males have been feeling the pinch. They weren't complaining over the last decades about the income inequality that has existed for women and African Americans and Hispanics since ... forever. And they still don't get it. Because it's only all about them. That's not liberal.

And yes, there's the sexism and xenophobia in spades (women and people from elsewhere are threatening to the white male status; these groups get something, it must be taking away something from them). There are the tough guys, whose only interest is seeing politicians and bankers put in prison (they don't want to figure out the complex legal niceties, they just know somehow these buggers need to be put away, and then everything will right itself). And they always want someone who will "FIGHT." They like fighting and revenge a lot. They like tough. Ooga booga. And they're always disappointed, because our elected officials don't fight enough, and aren't tough enough. How about wishing they could "think" enough.

Sometimes I don't know why I'm here. I'm far from perfect, but I at least try to think ... and not just of protecting my own interests and turf.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
155. This was such a good post.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:36 AM
Jun 2014

I cannot disagree with anything you said.
And the joint thing. Yes! I do not care if you want to smoke drugs i care about the sentence disparities. Yes we need to work on drug policy and lower prison times for non violent offenders, but i also don't want dealers hanging outside my home or anywhere really. There has to be another way to do this without just letting people sell drugs in parks and shoot each other over territory.
Put the money we save by not giving out 25 year sentences into rehabilitation and sober living, cheaper and more effective. Put the dealers into workforce development and trade technical schools and train them in good paying jobs, they do it for the money not for the status. And Jr college should be free up to an AA degree and trade school as well. Save money by training our offenders and making them into tax payers, and prevent more dealers by educating them in fields where they can earn a decent living. They can do Caltrans as punishment and pay a fine as long as no violence is involved. I think that is a better plan than 'Just Legalize all Drugs'.

On gun control. Yes.


You are spot on with the sudden noticing of income inequality. They only want to discuss class disparity, not gender or race inequality. And everything else you said in the last two paragraphs. Yes to all that to, i agree.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
241. You make a very important point about the focus only on class disparity
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:26 AM
Jun 2014

as opposed to gender and race inequality. The populist anger at wealth is not an end in itself: the focus should be on specific policy across many areas that can bring increased equality for traditionally disenfranchised groups. The whole populist thing feels like just another angry white male thing to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's how it comes across.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
184. Fabulous post. In the AA forum we bust guts laughing at the "warriors" for legalizing marijuana
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:24 AM
Jun 2014

because it "disenfranchises black people", but who have NARY A WORD to be said about the million billion other ways that black people are disenfranchised on a daily basis. Actually, black people all over the Internet laugh at folks like that. God, they are obvious. And pathetic.

And yes, there's the sexism and xenophobia in spades (women and people from elsewhere are threatening to the white male status; these groups get something, it must be taking away something from them).

And it's always the "feet to the fire" crew that engage in these behaviors. The ones that never have a decent thing to say about this president or Democrats in general are always the ones downplaying women's issues and telling everyone not American or IN America to shut up (unless they agree with their constant criticism, of course). It's so transparent and so obvious.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
263. I agree
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:41 AM
Jun 2014

As I see it, the stuff your describing is elitist balderdash. Not seeing the forest from the trees. Narcissistic whining over some single issue not relating economic needs. On a more optimistic note, youth is where it's at. I'm delighted so many here are posting that younger people are going to skew more progressive. That's the future, and I look forward to it.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
177. Wait.. what? Someone actually POSTED for everyone to see that he is critical of the Pres just to
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:08 AM
Jun 2014

get recs??

Now, if anyone is actually surprised about that sentiment PM me because I've got a bridge to sell. The ONLY thing that shocks me is that someone here actually fucking ADMITTED what every single person here sees EVERY SINGLE DAY.

I have read too many times here that we need to try to reach out to... Drumroll please...... WHITE MEN! Not our base, and our voters, but we need to reach out to old white males and not say stuff that might make them anxious. Why? Because the board is full of them and some of them think that the nation is not paying attention to their problems.

We've all seen them. And the folks that say this type of idiocy are the same ones that scream and bray like mules when someone (correctly) compares them to the Tea Party.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
181. Oh, did you miss that one?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:17 AM
Jun 2014

It was good and terrible, waxing nostalgic and vague. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5056192

I found myself baffled by the whole thing and i have no idea what it was really about to be sure.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
186. He has a way with words.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:28 AM
Jun 2014

It was nice to see somebody admit to what their motives were. I enjoyed SheShe's response immensely.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
187. Well, folks are apparently revealing themselves all over the place lately
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:37 AM
Jun 2014

Some (as in this thread) are doing it completely unintentionally by revealing what (and who) they think is and is not important.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
190. You said it!!
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:59 AM
Jun 2014

You know what? The responses i have gotten lately have surprised me quite a bit, i really don't think anything i have said is controversial or not common knowledge. I mean, if i say the words white people together in a sentence i seem to get angry responses from the same people who never get upset when someone makes generalized statements about black people. I have really been finding that strange and a bit amusing. Imagine if those same folks were Black and had to hear the shit we hear all the time about Black people. Good god, the crying that would ensue would make enough tears to fill the Grand Canyon. Do they not realize that we go through hearing whats wrong with Black families, and Black youth, and black fathers, and black crime?

I think i need to write an article a week on White crime and White failings just to ease them into everyone else's reality. Help the more sensitive ones develop my Rhinoceros skin.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
329. No, nothing you've said is controversial. NOTHING you've said is new
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:30 PM
Jun 2014

Black people have been making these comments for DECADES. Which makes the responses you get all the more hysterical from this "worldly" group of "liberals."

I am so sorry that you had to endure them. This place is a lost cause. We need to look elsewhere.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
220. Blame the victim. You are a piece of work.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:28 AM
Jun 2014

Obama's issues have ZERO to do with what race/gender I, or anyone, happen to be. They are HIS issues.

They have to do with continued war, drone strikes, suppression of whistle-blowers, Gitmo, mass (likely unconstitutional) surveillance, protection of war criminals from justice, billions to bankers and MIC while the general citizen falls further and further behind. WTF does someone's race and gender have one fucking iota to do with those things!

Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #220)

Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #220)

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
227. BS
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:41 AM
Jun 2014
bravenak
226. By the fucking way....

View profile
Older white men are not fucking victims in our society.



We are ALL, the whole fucking world, victims of continued wars, mass surveillance, and the expansion of capitalist empire.

By the way, your post comes off as very racist.
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
228. Bullshit. Our society caters to the older white male.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:46 AM
Jun 2014

Those same people you call victims vote for those wars, and love the shit out of capatalism. Take a look at the Tea Party, what do you see? Those VICTIMS astroturfing for corporations and voting in politicians who hate Black people, call hispanics wetbacks, want to limit womens rights and hate immigrants. They are NOT victims.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
229. That's funny
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:50 AM
Jun 2014
bravenak (4,267 posts)
228. Bullshit. Our society caters to the older white male.

Those same people you call victims vote for those wars, and love the shit out of capatalism. Take a look at the Tea Party, what do you see? Those VICTIMS astroturfing for corporations and voting in politicians who hate Black people, call hispanics wetbacks, want to limit womens rights and hate immigrants. They are NOT victims.



I happen to be an older white male and I think there are numerous other older white males to be found on an off of this board who have never in their lives done any of what you claim above.
 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
236. I do not
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:58 AM
Jun 2014

understand the meaning of this reply. Can you clarify? All men thing?

bravenak
234. So this is the not all men thing?

View profile
Carry on.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
259. It's a reference to ...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:21 AM
Jun 2014

the defense the dominant group individuals use to ignore what the dominant group as a class do/has done. E.g., "Yes, I know that men are capable of rape; but I've never raped, so women (and men that understand) shouldn't talk about the rape culture."

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
257. Well that true ...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:13 AM
Jun 2014

you are victims ... just not the victims of, and in some cases are supportive of, the concerns of the most reliable segment of the Democratic base.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
291. I certainly do not agree with his/her statement
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:01 PM
Jun 2014

I could be called middle aged white man, even though I do not think I am that old yet. I have been against income inequality and Marxist leaning since the Clinton days. The 99 crash showed me the extent of Corporate corruption and theft of middle class savings by the 1% class without repercussions. Could I have learned the same lesson in the savings and loan crisis of the 80s? Sure, if I had been old enough to understand at the time. I was not.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
311. Perhaps it's noteworthy to point out ...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:56 PM
Jun 2014

That your ignoring 2/3 of her post speaks volumes in proving her point.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
317. Still don't see it
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 04:08 PM
Jun 2014

P1 - libertarianism vs collective rights. I am a Socialist, collective rights trump individual rights.
P2 - Sudden economic obsession. This I addressed specifically with my post.
P3 -3rd way, "forward" looking bs. Criminals and those who have done wrong need to pay the price. No dancing around trying to be nice and PC. Bankers and war criminals need to be held accountable.

Ok, addressed all 3 paragraphs specifically for you.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
320. That is some ugly fucking shit you just wrote.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 05:07 PM
Jun 2014

But then again, I've been reading your diatribe ever since you got here so it shouldn't surprise me. Please, do carry on with your hatefest of all things white and all things "old." I'm intrigued. Well, not really, I can read the same shit on any hate site, just substitute minority/women with old and white and it's the same scapegoating.

You're young. Maybe you'll wise up, maybe you won't. It's entirely up to you.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
328. DU is not representative of the Democratic Party
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:27 PM
Jun 2014

Poll after poll on DU has shown that people here are overwhelmingly white and older.

If you look at the actual makeup of the Democratic Party, there are a large percentage of minorities, women and young people.

On a percentage basis, there are very few African American posters on DU. But if you look at real life, blacks make up a pretty sizable portion of the party and also tend to turn out more on election day.

Nope. Not bullshit at all.

But enjoy your bubble.

Hissyspit

(45,789 posts)
356. And you are not representative of the Democratic Party.
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 12:01 AM
Jun 2014

I didn't say a thing about being representative of the Democratic Party.

Yeah, my bubble.

Full of people who have been right about pretty much everything.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
357. Classic example of what bravenak is talking about:
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 12:25 AM
Jun 2014
And you are not representative of the Democratic Party.

I didn't say a thing about being representative of the Democratic Party.

Yeah, my bubble.

Full of people who have been right about pretty much everything.


You're essentially residing in a bubble made up of older white people are then you proceed to lecture others about what it means to be a Dem and how you're "right about pretty much everything".

It's really quite pathetic.

You were responding to bravenak and you totally missed her point.

DU is indeed a bubble if you look at the facts.

This place is overwhelmingly white and older. It does not represent the Democratic Party as a whole and the numbers bare that out. You may think it does, but it doesn't.

Haven't you wondered why, relatively spe