Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:27 PM

That was pretty goddamned incoherent, frankly.

I found that address to be an eloquently delivered ball of fundamental incoherence.

The rub: Gas sucks, dead children are terrible, so I want to attack, but we're working on a diplomatic solution, yet if you're on the right and love the military, or if you're on the left and love human rights, you totally have to look at the dead kids on YouTube and get behind me on attacking Syria even though I've asked Congress to suspend the vote and we're pursuing diplomacy so there won't be an attack, or something.

Gobldeygook. Tell me I'm wrong.

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536 replies	Author	Time	Post
That was pretty goddamned incoherent, frankly. (Original post)	WilliamPitt	Sep 2013	OP
It was disorienting to say the least...	PrestonLocke	Sep 2013	#1
I'm cutting him a lot of slack - he has to play all sides right now	reformist2	Sep 2013	#372
"We won't be sure of his true intentions until all this is over"	MNBrewer	Sep 2013	#385
You sir, are correct. I mean you are not wrong.	Safetykitten	Sep 2013	#2
Summary: "Assad, I'm not bluffing. Take the deal."	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#3
Exactly.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#18
And the less obvious sub point ... there for those paying attention ...	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#27
Yeah, that was pretty impressive, too.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#37
Obama expected the American people to back him.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#50
I don't think so.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#63
After the Shit that W pulled,	Mr.Bill	Sep 2013	#92
+1	davidwparker	Sep 2013	#288
Five years between Vietnam and Reagan's election "to make America strong again"	bananas	Sep 2013	#369
The correct position?	former9thward	Sep 2013	#97
That is a bold faced lie. 90% is destroyed.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#108
I expect you will be making excuses in 2023.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#121
We have 365 tons of Sarin + VX and 500 tons of mustard gas.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#143
You are an apologist for American bullying.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#210
They have to build facilities.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#214
So they built facilities for 90% of it	former9thward	Sep 2013	#423
Bush cut the funding for 8 years!	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#510
US on the right side of this issue?	former9thward	Sep 2013	#520
Rachel was just talking about this. The US HAS destroyed nearly all its stockpiles.	Hekate	Sep 2013	#237
Ohh and that building is going to take at least 10 years to build.....	former9thward	Sep 2013	#420
go ahead. tell me I'm an apologist for American bullying.	cali	Sep 2013	#394
Ignorance is bliss	heaven05	Sep 2013	#411
some people are so mad at the country for various things they'll be in denial about stuff like this.	dionysus	Sep 2013	#422
And some people have facts.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#425
^ proves my point	dionysus	Sep 2013	#427
not something in your possession in this case. n/t	cali	Sep 2013	#435
Another chemical weapon expert on DU!	former9thward	Sep 2013	#424
Please Read this Article on the Storage of Chemical Weapons.	CherokeeDem	Sep 2013	#405
So a MIC jobs program!	former9thward	Sep 2013	#426
I suspect....	CherokeeDem	Sep 2013	#439
Please explain why it was not complex to destroy 90% of the stockpile...	former9thward	Sep 2013	#443
Although I am a scientist by education...	CherokeeDem	Sep 2013	#451
Thank you for your comments.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#456
I take nothing at face value...	CherokeeDem	Sep 2013	#462
Good Article	Gothmog	Sep 2013	#449
Wow this is good to hear.	felix_numinous	Sep 2013	#499
Interesting, this aspect.	Smarmie Doofus	Sep 2013	#138
Not the UN, it's a separate entity cooperating with the UN.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#153
I agree with you.	Cheviteau	Sep 2013	#403
So what's the shelf life of some of these chemical weapons?	YOHABLO	Sep 2013	#232
Sarin, mixed, very short. Mustard gas, very long.	HooptieWagon	Sep 2013	#249
The stuff we gave Saddam had a maximum shelf life of 8 to 10 years.	RC	Sep 2013	#252
Yeah, Saddam buried his stuff.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#272
He also did destroy most of it.	RC	Sep 2013	#280
If I remember correctly, he agreed to allow the UN inspectors back in...	Blanks	Sep 2013	#389
Actually, the decision was made well before that.	RC	Sep 2013	#407
Of course you're right on the timeline...	Blanks	Sep 2013	#438
PNAC also targeted Syria.	bvar22	Sep 2013	#452
check this out	Skittles	Sep 2013	#344
Seen it.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#345
what were they saying about Putin when Snowden.....	Skittles	Sep 2013	#346
I state only facts.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#347
hey, I hear you	Skittles	Sep 2013	#348
Oh, OK, Russia is already against a UN plan:	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#349
the plot thickens	Skittles	Sep 2013	#350
+1,000 nt	MADem	Sep 2013	#442
"I state only facts," you say, just before blaming Russia for all of Syria's dead.	Comrade Grumpy	Sep 2013	#460
Had Assad gone the Bahrain route there would be no civil war.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#509
In that case	RainDog	Sep 2013	#80
Why would he expect that? Explain that arguement please.	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#86
He said so.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#104
I asked WHY he would expect the American people to support it.	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#117
He was bluffing.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#128
Congress has a lower approval than VD....	MADem	Sep 2013	#445
He also said he needs Congressional backing.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#122
He never said that at the beginning.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#136
And he never said he doesn't have the power to act unilaterally.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#162
So how is that a rejection of the Unitary Executive doctrine? nt	Llewlladdwr	Sep 2013	#178
Because he said he'll listen to Congress.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#185
Sorry joshcryer but I'm just not seeing it.	Llewlladdwr	Sep 2013	#197
No President would ever do that.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#200
I agree with you that no president would do that.	Llewlladdwr	Sep 2013	#216
The NFL?	mimi85	Sep 2013	#269
You cannot be serious...	VanillaRhapsody	Sep 2013	#106
Yet another person who does not follow the news.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#191
I don't?	VanillaRhapsody	Sep 2013	#198
So you are saying the American people backed him?	former9thward	Sep 2013	#204
No...did I say that?	VanillaRhapsody	Sep 2013	#207
Every post you make, makes a little less sense.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#212
I think Vanilla Rhapsody	mimi85	Sep 2013	#279
There is generally a good precedent that you let them know that all options are on the table	CAG	Sep 2013	#192
And Obama is the "everything's on the table" President.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#195
Yes, funny thing is........	George II	Sep 2013	#231
I think it is very strange that...	Ferretherder	Sep 2013	#294
^ THIS ^	mac56	Sep 2013	#410
Thank you, my friend...	Ferretherder	Sep 2013	#504
During a GOP Presidential Debate,	cynzke	Sep 2013	#458
EXACTLY!	Ferretherder	Sep 2013	#505
I love you	LukeFL	Sep 2013	#43
Oh puke!!!	U4ikLefty	Sep 2013	#66
Lol!	Jamastiene	Sep 2013	#170
A little too obvious with that one...	WorseBeforeBetter	Sep 2013	#413
What I can't agree with my fellow DUer?	LukeFL	Sep 2013	#519
You noticed the Unitary Executive thing, too? He was directly referencing the Youngstown decision,	msanthrope	Sep 2013	#76
Bingo. nt	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#96
That it went right over the head of the OP is understandable, but regrettable. He did something	msanthrope	Sep 2013	#101
WTF?	Llewlladdwr	Sep 2013	#87
You are unfamiliar with the Youngstown decision? nt	msanthrope	Sep 2013	#111
No, I'm familiar with Youngstown.	Llewlladdwr	Sep 2013	#139
When he said that he had the authority to act, but believed that this authority was	msanthrope	Sep 2013	#149
I disagree.	Llewlladdwr	Sep 2013	#156
We will have to agree to disagree. nnt	msanthrope	Sep 2013	#164
Agreed!	Llewlladdwr	Sep 2013	#169
That's the second time I've heard that from his lips: Unitary Executive, GOP wetdream since Nixon...	Hekate	Sep 2013	#234
Yes, it's so important to read between the lines to really understand this president.	gtar100	Sep 2013	#365
Exactly	LukeFL	Sep 2013	#35
Obama needs this deal as much as al-Assad.	Hell Hath No Fury	Sep 2013	#42
Assad needs it WAY more.	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#58
al-Assad could have taken the military hit.	Hell Hath No Fury	Sep 2013	#114
He lost on the strike. TWICE. Obama's stuck.	DirkGently	Sep 2013	#160
And ONLY to public pressure.	Beer Swiller	Sep 2013	#227
"dick-waving macho "don't call me a wus, Bill Clinton," crap?"	brush	Sep 2013	#395
Exactly.	somethingshiny	Sep 2013	#415
Pootie desperately needs the situation to be status quo ante bellum or he's out a small fortune.	MADem	Sep 2013	#213
Obama's in a box now. But he's handling it.	DirkGently	Sep 2013	#118
I think everyone will be happy -	Hell Hath No Fury	Sep 2013	#152
My thoughts also	brush	Sep 2013	#391
That's it. Pretty clear to me, too. Not at all "incoherent." nt	MADem	Sep 2013	#64
When he started talking about 'pinpricks'	AgingAmerican	Sep 2013	#475
He didn't lose me. There was a method and a reason in every word he uttered.	MADem	Sep 2013	#477
He needs to stop reacting to their idiocy	AgingAmerican	Sep 2013	#485
He's not reacting, he's just acknowledging their existence.	MADem	Sep 2013	#521
He is reacting to their idiotic statements	AgingAmerican	Sep 2013	#522
How do you legitimize stupidity?	MADem	Sep 2013	#523
By reacting to it as if it is legitimate	AgingAmerican	Sep 2013	#524
There was no drama in Obama's brief remark. You're trying to create some, though, and I'm	MADem	Sep 2013	#525
That is rediculous	AgingAmerican	Sep 2013	#527
It is not "ridiculous."	MADem	Sep 2013	#528
You are claiming that the Tea Party are Obamas constituents?	AgingAmerican	Sep 2013	#529
I hate to tell you this, but even the KKK and those Stormfront nuts are Obama's constituents.	MADem	Sep 2013	#530
Oh, so they have his ear too?	AgingAmerican	Sep 2013	#532
Now you're just being combative, obtuse, and offensive.	MADem	Sep 2013	#533
I'm stating fact	AgingAmerican	Sep 2013	#534
You apparently don't understand, won't grasp what I am saying, and I'm tired of arguing with you.	MADem	Sep 2013	#535
I know exactly what you are saying	AgingAmerican	Sep 2013	#536
That's what I thought!	graywarrior	Sep 2013	#109
That's what I heard.	mountain grammy	Sep 2013	#133
I heard that too: Not bluffing, but giving peace a chance.	Hekate	Sep 2013	#229
You really believe this deal was Obama's idea.	Beer Swiller	Sep 2013	#262
Touché!	Carolina	Sep 2013	#296
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Sep 2013	#490
Awesome post! +1	beerandjesus	Sep 2013	#390
So Putin gave Snowden asylum as a way to give the finger to the US	Number23	Sep 2013	#432
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Sep 2013	#489
I take great comfort in the knowledge that the number of people that think that Putin	Number23	Sep 2013	#495
I agree with everything you said...until the very last line.	arewenotdemo	Sep 2013	#440
Assad, I'm not bluffing, you know how much money we'll make off WWIII :)	grahamhgreen	Sep 2013	#270
I need some ketchup for my crow. nt	awoke_in_2003	Sep 2013	#466
Military strikes in national security interest of the US. Make my children safer.	The Link	Sep 2013	#4
This message was self-deleted by its author	Awknid	Sep 2013	#48
Dubya explained all this some years back. We gotta kill them	truedelphi	Sep 2013	#243
It reflects the confused situation of today	quinnox	Sep 2013	#5
Not only was it incoherent, I had the impression that the President knew it.	winter is coming	Sep 2013	#6
100% correct Mr. Pitt	Crimson76	Sep 2013	#7
tell you you're wrong? I THINK YOU ARE WRONG.	trueblue2007	Sep 2013	#8
Like the ones killled by our own drones?	Hell Hath No Fury	Sep 2013	#45
Yes. In Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and Libya. Now we need to	Luminous Animal	Sep 2013	#46
I liked his speech too but,	Politicalboi	Sep 2013	#69
The children we kill won't be wreathing in pain	golfguru	Sep 2013	#266
I hope you are kidding. nt	Democracyinkind	Sep 2013	#363
Yes, and I hope you noticed my sarcasm tag. n/t	golfguru	Sep 2013	#448
Flying body parts are better than asphyxiation.	jsr	Sep 2013	#293
The haters are mad there will be no US attack on Syria	Cali_Democrat	Sep 2013	#9
He was supposed to announce that SHOCK and AWE #2 had started.	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#34
No confusion.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#61
Then why would Russia try to help with some deal?	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#72
Russia looks like a peacemaker to the world.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#98
Except no one in the world believes that, no one.	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#127
You are not the world.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#132
Only America haters think that	dbackjon	Sep 2013	#258
Yeah, America love it or leave it!!!	former9thward	Sep 2013	#418
+1,000 nt	MADem	Sep 2013	#159
I am ONE - maybe the only one? "America looks like a warmonger" . . . damm straight.	ConcernedCanuk	Sep 2013	#357
Considering Russia is arming Assad	mythology	Sep 2013	#242
Pootie doesn't want the USA to target any piers in Tartus, that's the real bottom line.	MADem	Sep 2013	#267
America has lost the "long game" and the world knows it.	former9thward	Sep 2013	#417
Maybe	Eko	Sep 2013	#103
Because Russia knew Obama was not bluffing.	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#130
To keep Assad in power, which blocks the pipeline Russia doesnt want	DJ13	Sep 2013	#115
Strikes weren't intend to remove him from power.	JoePhilly	Sep 2013	#125
Mission creep began to mention regime change	DJ13	Sep 2013	#173
Um.....McCain isn't President nor does he speak for President Obama	Proud Liberal Dem	Sep 2013	#201
Go ahead	DJ13	Sep 2013	#206
The key words being:	Proud Liberal Dem	Sep 2013	#377
If there's not to be any attack on Syria...	Llewlladdwr	Sep 2013	#39
PRESSURE!	LukeFL	Sep 2013	#49
If the President wants to apply pressure...	Llewlladdwr	Sep 2013	#59
Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!	LukeFL	Sep 2013	#67
Well, I'm having a hard time understanding because frankly, it makes no sense.	Llewlladdwr	Sep 2013	#102
Shhh, they're too busy looking into his dreamy eyes	U4ikLefty	Sep 2013	#77
Gee--I thought his detractors were too busy critiquing his eyebrows ....	MADem	Sep 2013	#189
Bwahaha! Still trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory! How many lost on popcorn stock?	freshwest	Sep 2013	#455
I don't think a lot of the detractors on this thread are going to like the home page today either...	MADem	Sep 2013	#457
Woot! Let me go take a peek and be back. Thanks, MADem!	freshwest	Sep 2013	#459
Actually no	iandhr	Sep 2013	#93
Applause!	LukeFL	Sep 2013	#180
PBO asked Congress in May. Guess what the focus was at DU then?	freshwest	Sep 2013	#479
Please get off that kick. It is asinine.	Jackpine Radical	Sep 2013	#54
+1,000 jackpine	suffragette	Sep 2013	#90
+1	sarcasmo	Sep 2013	#268
How far from reality must you be to even conceive of such a thing?	Cal Carpenter	Sep 2013	#140
Well said. Thank you. -The Sane	DisgustipatedinCA	Sep 2013	#292
That's pretty much what I was thinking. nt	laundry_queen	Sep 2013	#326
it's a sick suggestion and that indicates what kind of a brain comes up	cali	Sep 2013	#396
Oh stop that.	NuclearDem	Sep 2013	#182
Excellent	Carolina	Sep 2013	#264
^^^This post is right on target^^^	DisgustipatedinCA	Sep 2013	#297
You have learned something	CountAllVotes	Sep 2013	#433
+1000	burnsei sensei	Sep 2013	#484
I don't need anything related to Syria to bash Obama.	Tiredofthesame	Sep 2013	#211
People who feared Persian Gulf War III (if not WW III) are "haters"?	Peace Patriot	Sep 2013	#218
"It's a TINDERBOX."	arewenotdemo	Sep 2013	#450
Right-Wing Media's Love Affair With Putin Continues Over Syria Weapons Proposal	freshwest	Sep 2013	#290
This is a complete non sequitor but I truly needed	snagglepuss	Sep 2013	#441
You're welcome. Apply liberally as needed!	freshwest	Sep 2013	#470
If you start with "The haters..." you have conceded you have no argument.	morningfog	Sep 2013	#313
What about if someone calls me a cultist?	Cali_Democrat	Sep 2013	#327
What an assholish comment.	beerandjesus	Sep 2013	#393
that's the most insane thing i've read here in a long while	noiretextatique	Sep 2013	#488
No, you're not wrong. You pretty much summed it up.	forestpath	Sep 2013	#10
I dont think he even really neede to give the speech..unless we were bombing tomorrow	NightWatcher	Sep 2013	#11
It was scheduled on the eve of the Senate vote, and I believe it was originally intended	winter is coming	Sep 2013	#60
I missed it, but assumed it would be	whatchamacallit	Sep 2013	#12
Yep, that would be my call too.	truedelphi	Sep 2013	#245
I'm with you	tom_kelly	Sep 2013	#13
It was an awful speech that focused more on bombing than diplomacy	Bjorn Against	Sep 2013	#14
It was pretty damn simple, actually.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#15
The whole world was watching or listening. Every word was deliberate and had purpose.	NYC_SKP	Sep 2013	#16
Well said. But still, some miss 'the beloved pair' running the country:	freshwest	Sep 2013	#472
Transcript, for those inclined to read it	struggle4progress	Sep 2013	#17
Words. Me. Am. Not. Able. To. Read.	joshcryer	Sep 2013	#23
Yeah, that's about right. n/t	cigsandcoffee	Sep 2013	#19
Chris Hayes nailed the fundamental contradiction.	DirkGently	Sep 2013	#20
Yes, he did nail it, as usual.	winter is coming	Sep 2013	#26
Best way I've ever heard it put.	1awake	Sep 2013	#123
I give you permission to quote Chris Hayes!	DirkGently	Sep 2013	#135
ha... yea i know, but you caught it not me so... thanks! n/t	1awake	Sep 2013	#150
This needs to be its own post! Thanks! n-t	Logical	Sep 2013	#220
+1,00000000000000000000000	grahamhgreen	Sep 2013	#273
Excellent description.	jsr	Sep 2013	#304
THAT as the BIG one.	avaistheone1	Sep 2013	#319
Bang on.	snagglepuss	Sep 2013	#444
I think he is setting up the 'diplomacy' for failure	merbex	Sep 2013	#21
No, actually he is setting up Assad and Congress	quaker bill	Sep 2013	#166
Pul-eeze...He nailed it !!	jessie04	Sep 2013	#22
Can You Cram A Few More Cliches In Your Post?	HangOnKids	Sep 2013	#311
You aren't wrong, Will.	In_The_Wind	Sep 2013	#24
That's pretty much what I heard, too.	Arkansas Granny	Sep 2013	#25
I heard the man ask for some time to continue to pursue a diplomatic solution to completion.	Skidmore	Sep 2013	#28
don't talk about balls, Will. nor incoherence.	Whisp	Sep 2013	#29
The glory days are no more, and peace is bor-ring. Speaking of the rule of balls:	freshwest	Sep 2013	#474
Betty White has something to say about 'balls'.	Whisp	Sep 2013	#476
Yes, you are totally correct.	RebelOne	Sep 2013	#30
I think you're wrong.	Avalux	Sep 2013	#31
But he certainly reminded us he can take action if he choses.	snappyturtle	Sep 2013	#53
You're embarrassing yourself at this point.	DevonRex	Sep 2013	#32
This message was self-deleted by its author	DisgustipatedinCA	Sep 2013	#305
Yeah, I apologize for that.	DevonRex	Sep 2013	#310
Thanks.	DisgustipatedinCA	Sep 2013	#316
You're welcome.	DevonRex	Sep 2013	#322
+1	tallahasseedem	Sep 2013	#421
You are wrong.	Motown_Johnny	Sep 2013	#33
Some posters on this site know only one gear. And they crank that gear right into a tree. nt	bluestate10	Sep 2013	#506
It made perfect sense	johnd83	Sep 2013	#36
I agree. I understood what the President was doing. Diplomacy with a big stick at the ready	bluestate10	Sep 2013	#507
Can't believe you don't know him yet	LukeFL	Sep 2013	#38
cut and paste rewrite....	Junkdrawer	Sep 2013	#40
OK: YOU'RE WRONG.	jazzimov	Sep 2013	#41
It was perfectly clear to me.	phleshdef	Sep 2013	#44
It was perfectly clear if you didnt have your fingers in your ears going	VanillaRhapsody	Sep 2013	#190
-1,000,000	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2013	#511
Looks like one of the la la la group has chimed in	VanillaRhapsody	Sep 2013	#512
Ha...looks like the one who almost got blocked today who people say is rude ALL	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2013	#513
blocked?	VanillaRhapsody	Sep 2013	#517
Thanks for the summary version. I wasn't about to sit through the whole thing.	BlueStreak	Sep 2013	#47
Of course not...	VanillaRhapsody	Sep 2013	#193
I give him credit for the good things that he has done.	BlueStreak	Sep 2013	#221
that made me laugh out loud...	VanillaRhapsody	Sep 2013	#223
I flipped through the first 15, and all of them	BlueStreak	Sep 2013	#238
No you didn't say...you said NOTHING.	VanillaRhapsody	Sep 2013	#244
I said "I give him credit for the good things that he has done."	BlueStreak	Sep 2013	#257
No it has NOT.... where the hell do you people get this stuff?	VanillaRhapsody	Sep 2013	#263
so good to hear someone acknowledge that.	bigtree	Sep 2013	#51
Sorry, but you're wrong. It was pretty succinct to me. n/t	Darkhawk32	Sep 2013	#52
1745 Dimensional Chess	NoOneMan	Sep 2013	#55
....	davidpdx	Sep 2013	#158
He's an embarrassment	Shampoobra	Sep 2013	#56
Freshly Painted Eyebrows?	otohara	Sep 2013	#94
Sorry, that wasn't very clear	Shampoobra	Sep 2013	#199
Black POTUS Has Always Had Black Eyebrows	otohara	Sep 2013	#224
Your links show that they weren't, as I had thought, "freshly painted"	Shampoobra	Sep 2013	#255
Very weird observation. Reagan dyed his whole head at 80+ and PBO is going gray at 50-something	Hekate	Sep 2013	#228
It's That Bad Here At DU	otohara	Sep 2013	#265
I was feeling low down after reading all the fighting	Enthusiast	Sep 2013	#341
What's most disheartening is we are wasting so much time and effort on this	Snake Plissken	Sep 2013	#57
+1000	forestpath	Sep 2013	#75
+1000!!! This endless bullshit in the middle east decade	RKP5637	Sep 2013	#202
Oil and Israel, it is what's for dinner... forever.	harun	Sep 2013	#217
We have become the Middle East's	CountAllVotes	Sep 2013	#431
Well, I think you're wrong, but you're looking for approval here, so I'll leave it at that.	MADem	Sep 2013	#62
LOL! n/t	ProSense	Sep 2013	#68
I couldn't help myself....	MADem	Sep 2013	#112
"He never said 'I want to attack.' You should listen more closely."	WilliamPitt	Sep 2013	#79
Not the same as "I WANT TO ATTACK" ..... genius.	MADem	Sep 2013	#119
"There is a contingent who love to see him fail and hate to see him win."	ProSense	Sep 2013	#157
I saw that utter mess....and I just walked away.	MADem	Sep 2013	#171
I don't think Pitt has hair...	Whisp	Sep 2013	#253
Here he is begging for money..........	4bucksagallon	Sep 2013	#331
This video	Summer Hathaway	Sep 2013	#353
Someone said he had no hair......	4bucksagallon	Sep 2013	#356
My "beef"	Summer Hathaway	Sep 2013	#358
So you and a maybe a couple hundred others are members of his "fan club" big deal.	4bucksagallon	Sep 2013	#366
Summer hathaway is right: you ought to delete this.	Raine1967	Sep 2013	#388
Your reading comprehension	Summer Hathaway	Sep 2013	#482
That's pretty asinine. Those of us calling you out all disagree with the OP....	Hekate	Sep 2013	#531
+ a million, Summer. I 100% agree with MADem that this OP is nothing but a Will Pitt "look at me!!"	Number23	Sep 2013	#434
I'm with you and MADem on the OP	Summer Hathaway	Sep 2013	#483
Naw, he nailed it.	bravenak	Sep 2013	#65
Help me out here, what exactly is 'it'?	Snake Plissken	Sep 2013	#81
Making the case against chemical weapons.	bravenak	Sep 2013	#126
We are going to buy Assad's cooperation, just like we always do and call it a 'diplomatic solution'	Snake Plissken	Sep 2013	#161
I don't remember him saying that.	bravenak	Sep 2013	#179
Russia is nothing but the broker of this deal,	Snake Plissken	Sep 2013	#196
No they aren't. They have a direct and DIRE interest in averting missile strikes.	MADem	Sep 2013	#256
That is a tiny port not capable of handling aircraft carriers, it's basically a re-supply depot	Snake Plissken	Sep 2013	#274
Excuse me? You need to KEEP UP with the latest, there, Snake....	MADem	Sep 2013	#286
Yes, Russia had a lot to lose. So they put the squeeze on Assad. What's so hard to understand?	freshwest	Sep 2013	#518
you are wrong. I'll tell you now instead of you waiting	Whisp	Sep 2013	#70
OUCH.	MADem	Sep 2013	#124
lol	orenbus	Sep 2013	#155
Jeez. Who the hell are you and what is that thing?	Hekate	Sep 2013	#278
That's Palpatine	Dash87	Sep 2013	#409
That's hilarious! n/t	DisgustipatedinCA	Sep 2013	#308
Could care less about this argument, but that picture made me LOL	Dash87	Sep 2013	#408
It's a malady of the those who have intelligence without wisdom: a tendency to jump to their	alcibiades_mystery	Sep 2013	#284
so...were we supposed to "do something" now?	nashville_brook	Sep 2013	#71
His eyes got a bit of a "glint" mentioning we don't do "Pinprick Strikes."	KoKo	Sep 2013	#73
Kindly explain this 'glint' you see in his eyes. I'm fascinated by this. nt	msanthrope	Sep 2013	#83
No you're not.	U4ikLefty	Sep 2013	#88
Yes--I am. On a batshit insane thread, I find the poster who sees a 'glint' in the President's	msanthrope	Sep 2013	#95
LOL! Glint Easwood talks to empty headed 101st Chairbornes.	Whisp	Sep 2013	#146
The we "don't do pinprick strikes" thing obviously refers to the fact that America has such an	arewenotdemo	Sep 2013	#454
I had no problem, following it at all.	quaker bill	Sep 2013	#74
I wish I could rec your post.	Avalux	Sep 2013	#89
What friggin' complexity?	truedelphi	Sep 2013	#240
^^^^THIS post makes this trainwreck of an OP worthwhile. I wish I could rec this post of yours.^^^^^	MADem	Sep 2013	#145
I just do what I can, when I can..	quaker bill	Sep 2013	#181
Thank you for this post.	JohnnyLib2	Sep 2013	#154
Best post of the thread. Craploads better than the OP. nt	msanthrope	Sep 2013	#205
Agreed. QB should make it an OP. n/t	FSogol	Sep 2013	#376
+1, Quaker Bill. See, all you people who wished you could Rec this, I just did! :-) nt	Hekate	Sep 2013	#271
Magnificent reply. Thanks for that.	Number23	Sep 2013	#436
I understood it perfectly	iandhr	Sep 2013	#78
I didn't listen to it myself	bhikkhu	Sep 2013	#82
The President has never taken the position we must act immediately	struggle4progress	Sep 2013	#131
Oh thank god.	noamnety	Sep 2013	#84
"he had no shame in explicitly identifying and defending American exceptionalism"	winter is coming	Sep 2013	#137
Did he actually mention American exceptionalism by name?	truedelphi	Sep 2013	#248
He ended by saying America is "exceptional."	noamnety	Sep 2013	#370
Ew-w-w.	truedelphi	Sep 2013	#493
..the exact word I was thinking of earlier today after reading....	Tikki	Sep 2013	#85
Sorry I disagree	Beaverhausen	Sep 2013	#91
"And a failure to stand against the use of chemical weapons would... embolden Iran" - Obama	grahamhgreen	Sep 2013	#99
I thought it was a short speech without much substance.	Mr.Bill	Sep 2013	#100
Hey, we want you to stop using chemical weapons while	tsuki	Sep 2013	#105
Gobbledygook is what I heard also but.......	Little Star	Sep 2013	#107
Yeah, cuz you expected, what, exactly?	Old and In the Way	Sep 2013	#110
+1,000 nt	MADem	Sep 2013	#184
I felt like it was Bush talking and I really hated that feeling	Generic Other	Sep 2013	#113
Bush talking? Hell, it wasn't that incoherent.	winter is coming	Sep 2013	#142
LOL. True enough	Generic Other	Sep 2013	#188
Agree with you	Carolina	Sep 2013	#287
You are wrong.	rury	Sep 2013	#116
I think it reflects the fuzziness of the situation.	BlueCheese	Sep 2013	#120
As it was put up thread...	1awake	Sep 2013	#129
The one thing the President got wrong was suggesting that the 'Right' support our military	Snake Plissken	Sep 2013	#134
The POTUS IS CONFUSED.	rsmith6621	Sep 2013	#141
he is not conused at all	quaker bill	Sep 2013	#194
He is in no way, shape, or form confused.	Tiredofthesame	Sep 2013	#226
"Tell me I'm wrong". Okay you're wrong. nt	4bucksagallon	Sep 2013	#144
Oh my...indeed! eom	Purveyor	Sep 2013	#147
Was a little mixed . . .	another_liberal	Sep 2013	#148
He wants to attack them, but his buddy, Putin,	Jamastiene	Sep 2013	#151
Obama got himself suckered into a schoolyard standoff	King_Klonopin	Sep 2013	#359
He doesn't have a clue	LittleBlue	Sep 2013	#163
And let's not forget the reason he is 200 votes short in the House - 72% of all American voters	truedelphi	Sep 2013	#254
Exactly	LittleBlue	Sep 2013	#260
frankly william.....	chillfactor	Sep 2013	#165
It is this way from forcing the facts to agree with the narrative.	Rain Mcloud	Sep 2013	#167
Yeah	erpowers	Sep 2013	#168
I've sat through it twice, and it was poorly done.	Savannahmann	Sep 2013	#172
Thank you.	GeorgeGist	Sep 2013	#208
Thank you.	woo me with science	Sep 2013	#219
"vile propaganda cherry on top"	arewenotdemo	Sep 2013	#461
I read and re-read your post 3 times. Well done and thanks.	russspeakeasy	Sep 2013	#235
K&R	Carolina	Sep 2013	#291
Thanks You...	haikugal	Sep 2013	#330
Good post. nt	laundry_queen	Sep 2013	#337
That was very eloquent. Thank you. And it had totally	truedelphi	Sep 2013	#352
An anecdote about land mines...	Maedhros	Sep 2013	#486
May I offer you a friendly hump day	truedelphi	Sep 2013	#492
Thank you!	Maedhros	Sep 2013	#494
Spot on.	Celefin	Sep 2013	#361
Well said, thank you!	beerandjesus	Sep 2013	#397
marvellous, thoughtful post	Supersedeas	Sep 2013	#464
Thank you Savannahmann.	sibelian	Sep 2013	#481
I didn't watch,	crim son	Sep 2013	#174
+1	newfie11	Sep 2013	#175
No, it wasn't.	madamesilverspurs	Sep 2013	#176
I find	Whisp	Sep 2013	#177
That was campaign Obama	Marrah_G	Sep 2013	#183
Cue the hyperbole.	JaneyVee	Sep 2013	#186
They Call the Wind Maria	Whisp	Sep 2013	#187
LOL.	arewenotdemo	Sep 2013	#463
Why do you invite people	Summer Hathaway	Sep 2013	#203
Gobldeygook (aside from being hard to spell)	fadedrose	Sep 2013	#209
Ha. It's incoherent to understand the desire to stop a dictator from gassing people? GEEZ nt	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2013	#215
Exactly what the Bush fan club said about Saddam	Doctor_J	Sep 2013	#225
Are you serious? Hardly the same. Bush and Cheney were lying and making shit	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2013	#282
Thats why they said it..	iamthebandfanman	Sep 2013	#355
And what about Kerry's claim that Syria's chemical weapons are a threat to the US?	Doctor_J	Sep 2013	#381
Why yes--coming from the head of a country that is the chief weapons supplier to the world	eridani	Sep 2013	#360
circumstances required an entire new speech and he seemed to keep half of the old one	carolinayellowdog	Sep 2013	#222
The situation is pretty fluid	LuckyTheDog	Sep 2013	#230
You have been so exactly right on the mark.	dkf	Sep 2013	#233
Did Obama write this speech?	kentuck	Sep 2013	#236
You Are a Fool	mrchips	Sep 2013	#239
+1 n/t	wisteria	Sep 2013	#247
Oh whatever.	truedelphi	Sep 2013	#261
Check The Profile	HangOnKids	Sep 2013	#317
Holocausts. Nazis. Must. Kill. Hitler.	jsr	Sep 2013	#301
Will is one of the "cool kids" who will lose his street cred if he ever admits he was wrong	scheming daemons	Sep 2013	#314
What is with the constant name calling? Other poster calls Will a fool, then you	Bluenorthwest	Sep 2013	#416
I know who you are	Skittles	Sep 2013	#324
By that metric, I know of some Holocausts that you're ignoring... nt	Democracyinkind	Sep 2013	#364
I don't think it was as incoherent as all that. I think you're wrong on this one. nt	Hekate	Sep 2013	#241
One thing was clear...	The Midway Rebel	Sep 2013	#246
Yeah, it's clear we should watch them.	arewenotdemo	Sep 2013	#467
His worst speech that I can remember (n/t)	Ocelot	Sep 2013	#250
I had no problem following and understanding it.	wisteria	Sep 2013	#251
You are wrong	dbackjon	Sep 2013	#259
Barack rarely fails to kill it.	KamaAina	Sep 2013	#275
YOu aren't wrong, but we have to be less wrong than the republicans. Is this the way?	Mellow Drama	Sep 2013	#276
This train is never late.	cliffordu	Sep 2013	#277
I love the part where Assad is a threat, but	obxhead	Sep 2013	#281
Yes. Just like the US military "does not do pinpricks,"	woo me with science	Sep 2013	#298
pinprick < unbelievably small < Iraq	arewenotdemo	Sep 2013	#471
When the wall came down and the cold war ended I thought this world police shit would stop.	L0oniX	Sep 2013	#283
I stopped watching it after about 4 minutes.	davidwparker	Sep 2013	#285
You need to watch the whole thing.	Darkhawk32	Sep 2013	#300
It was muddled and pointless.	jsr	Sep 2013	#289
I didn't listen to it; I read it. And it seems coherent enough to me.	pnwmom	Sep 2013	#295
Yes Sir! You are wrong.	zwyziec	Sep 2013	#299
couldn't you just make an Obama is a poopy-head salad for the same results?	sigmasix	Sep 2013	#302
Just listened to it again	nadinbrzezinski	Sep 2013	#303
And for those promulgating the Master Chess Player Theory . . .	markpkessinger	Sep 2013	#306
Ahem.	Summer Hathaway	Sep 2013	#325
A point made in another thread . . .	markpkessinger	Sep 2013	#328
How did Obama	Summer Hathaway	Sep 2013	#332
OMG -- the delusion in this -- there are no words n/t	markpkessinger	Sep 2013	#333
If you are seriously suggesting . . .	markpkessinger	Sep 2013	#334
you might want to rephrase ... n/t	Summer Hathaway	Sep 2013	#335
Indeed -- done. Thank you. n/t	markpkessinger	Sep 2013	#336
No prob.	Summer Hathaway	Sep 2013	#340
Well, why don't you walk me through this	Summer Hathaway	Sep 2013	#339
"You know an enemy is committed when they move ammunition"	adirondacker	Sep 2013	#329
Hahaha, yes!	beerandjesus	Sep 2013	#398
Can't weigh in... had my own meeting...	MrMickeysMom	Sep 2013	#307
Aw, poop on that. You should read the transcript.	TwilightGardener	Sep 2013	#309
I have, it is just as bad.	avaistheone1	Sep 2013	#318
It was coherent to anyone with a triple digit IQ and no anti-Obama agenda	scheming daemons	Sep 2013	#312
No. He might not have said what you wanted to hear,	Waiting For Everyman	Sep 2013	#315
My fellow Americans, I need some some new speechwriters. Or at least a copyeditor to make sure part	avaistheone1	Sep 2013	#320
Hey Will, I think your Rec count is down a little	BootinUp	Sep 2013	#321
gobblygook	kardonb	Sep 2013	#323
And George Bush and his criminal administration are still not in damn jail!	Lint Head	Sep 2013	#338
K&R. Sounds like they're covering all the bases.	polly7	Sep 2013	#342
You're wrong.	Bolo Boffin	Sep 2013	#343
Your title sounds like something Newt Gingrich would say, with that "frankly" tick.	SunSeeker	Sep 2013	#351
No one expected it to please you, Will.	iamthebandfanman	Sep 2013	#354
His comment about his "friends on the left" was a real insult to us.	gtar100	Sep 2013	#362
yep	G_j	Sep 2013	#379
Like I've said before. we know who's really running the media and the gov't in this country	Roland99	Sep 2013	#387
Yet	TomClash	Sep 2013	#367
He should've led with the deal.	rucky	Sep 2013	#368
This message was self-deleted by its author	michigandem58	Sep 2013	#371
Only to those who have a brainlock that Obama is a warmonger.	DCBob	Sep 2013	#373
Yep! "Obey international norms, or we'll violate an international norm and blow your shit up."	backscatter712	Sep 2013	#374
If Obama farts it doesn't sound or smell right.	6000eliot	Sep 2013	#375
Ive been here a long time WP and this is the first time I disagree with you	Nightjock	Sep 2013	#378
He sounded a lot like somebody who had the opponent inside his loop and can't adjust	Lee-Lee	Sep 2013	#380
Worst speech of his Presidency.	99Forever	Sep 2013	#382
He should've had Bill Clinton write that speech for him -	TBF	Sep 2013	#383
interesting the level of discomfort	Nitram	Sep 2013	#384
You just don't understand 11-dimensional chess	Roland99	Sep 2013	#386
Here's where you're wrong.	Fuddnik	Sep 2013	#392
Please support this effort for peace. Donate now.	jsr	Sep 2013	#402
Really?	rtracey	Sep 2013	#399
First thing I said to my wife when it was over: "I don't really know what he just said!"	beerandjesus	Sep 2013	#400
He don't have any friends on the left anymore.	Fuddnik	Sep 2013	#401
You are not wrong.	LWolf	Sep 2013	#404
RE: Splicing some stuff about diplomacy into an already prepared pro-war speech at the last minute.	No DUplicitous DUpe	Sep 2013	#480
fear hate	stonecutter357	Sep 2013	#406
Hey stonecutter357, Librarian's are awesome people. They do have that nasty habit of saying shhh	Autumn	Sep 2013	#412
Just good ol fashion Dyslexia!	stonecutter357	Sep 2013	#465
It's all good. I found it funny, in 2nd grade our Librarian	Autumn	Sep 2013	#468
The President Makes The Case	ProSense	Sep 2013	#414
So what is your end game, WilliamPitt? What is the purpose of this post?	randome	Sep 2013	#419
you're wrong. you heard what you wanted to hear Will.	dionysus	Sep 2013	#428
nope	goatmilker	Sep 2013	#429
Yup	CountAllVotes	Sep 2013	#430
It was a perfectly coherent expression of hypocritical policies...	Orsino	Sep 2013	#437
Hear Hear. You absolutely nail it. nt	snagglepuss	Sep 2013	#446
He's got a better delivery than Bush.	Jester Messiah	Sep 2013	#447
I guess President Obama has never seen the photos of the DEAD BABIES...	bvar22	Sep 2013	#453
Or burns from the White Phosphorus we used in Fallujah	FiveGoodMen	Sep 2013	#473
Should have used the time to say: Syria looks like we can find a sollution.. so let me use this	glowing	Sep 2013	#469
Pretty god-damned incoherent RW gibberish always suck mightily	indepat	Sep 2013	#478
Pity you aren't President, eh?	MineralMan	Sep 2013	#487
Sad but true.	marble falls	Sep 2013	#491
Poll: 69% of Americans Viewed Obama’s Syria Speech Positively, 61% Favor His Approach	Tx4obama	Sep 2013	#496
I just watched it (I am always a day late)	Skittles	Sep 2013	#497
It reminded me of a Jerry Lewis	sulphurdunn	Sep 2013	#498
Noam Chomsky's commentary on Obama's Syria speech is important to hear	Catherina	Sep 2013	#500
"All things to all people."	malthaussen	Sep 2013	#501
I wish I could tell you that you were wrong...	kentuck	Sep 2013	#502
Thanks Kentuck	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2013	#515
Your hate runneth over n/t	michigandem58	Sep 2013	#503
I don't think he'll be showing his face here again.	Whisp	Sep 2013	#508
Amen to the Nth degree !! thanks MD58	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2013	#514
Wrong about Rove. Wrong about Ritter.	gulliver	Sep 2013	#516
You are wrong.	Rex	Sep 2013	#526

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:28 PM

PrestonLocke (217 posts)

1. It was disorienting to say the least...

Maybe we take his gas and bomb him anyways?

Reply to this post

Response to PrestonLocke (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:32 AM

reformist2 (9,841 posts)

372. I'm cutting him a lot of slack - he has to play all sides right now

We won't be sure of his true intentions until all this is over, but every day there is no bombing, no invasion, is a good day.

Reply to this post

Response to reformist2 (Reply #372)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:10 AM

MNBrewer (8,462 posts)

385. "We won't be sure of his true intentions until all this is over"

That's starting to sound like "loose cannon"

Reply to this post

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:29 PM

Safetykitten (5,162 posts)

One can't be too bothered by those troubled by the speech, they always expect the worst. So many failed predictions by Obama detractors it's hard to take them seriously.

Reply to this post

Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:43 PM

former9thward (23,884 posts)

50. Obama expected the American people to back him.

They didn't, big time. It is hard to take those seriously who can (or more probably won't) see that.

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #50)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:47 PM

joshcryer (61,774 posts)

The US DOES have to build a special building on site to finish it off, and that building is under way.

Reply to this post

Response to Hekate (Reply #237)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:30 AM

former9thward (23,884 posts)

420. Ohh and that building is going to take at least 10 years to build.....

The things people post on DU expecting people to believe it.

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #210)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:47 AM

cali (114,904 posts)

394. go ahead. tell me I'm an apologist for American bullying.

that would be amusing. I double dog dare you.

Josh is correct re U.S. chemical stores. We hardly deserve an award for it, but he's right and you're demonstrating your ignorance.

Reply to this post

Response to cali (Reply #394)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:47 AM

heaven05 (18,124 posts)

411. Ignorance is bliss

Reply to this post

Response to cali (Reply #394)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:34 AM

dionysus (26,467 posts)

422. some people are so mad at the country for various things they'll be in denial about stuff like this.

Reply to this post

Response to dionysus (Reply #422)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:37 AM

former9thward (23,884 posts)

425. And some people have facts.

That others turn their heads away from.

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #425)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:40 AM

dionysus (26,467 posts)

427. ^ proves my point

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #425)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:11 AM

cali (114,904 posts)

435. not something in your possession in this case. n/t

Reply to this post

Response to cali (Reply #394)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:36 AM

former9thward (23,884 posts)

424. Another chemical weapon expert on DU!

Who knew the intellectual riches we have!

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #210)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:23 AM

CherokeeDem (3,685 posts)

405. Please Read this Article on the Storage of Chemical Weapons.

However, I do know the track record of the Depot and the community on this particular cache of weapons. Is the military telling us everything? Only a fool would believe every thing they hear from the military or the government, since it's all about spin. Are all the members of the community working for the betterment and protection of the community? I seriously doubt it... some may have agendas, especially the business community who wants to keep the jobs and the revenue in their area.

The fact is nothing is perfect, including me. I apoligize for missing the fact you said 'claims.'

Reply to this post

Response to CherokeeDem (Reply #405)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:07 PM

Gothmog (95,429 posts)

449. Good Article

Thank you for posting. The destruction of chemical weapons is difficult enough to begin with and these weapons are attached to explosives. This is from the article

Blue Grass Army Depot will be the last of nine sites to destroy its chemical weapons. The task is harder there because, unlike other sites, the chemicals are loaded in explosive M55 rockets and corroding projectiles that were meant to be shot out of cannons. The plant under construction will make heavy use of robots and other automated assemblies to separate the explosives and metal from the chemicals. Even with that automation, it will employ about 1,000 people.

The Army plans to heat the VX and sarin in chemical reactors to destroy them. The resulting hydrolysate will contain no detectable toxins. (While no final decision has been made, the mustard agent might be destroyed in a different process.)

Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2013/09/09/2812927/chemicals-allegedly-used-in-syria.html#storylink=cpy

Reply to this post

Response to CherokeeDem (Reply #405)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:26 PM

felix_numinous (5,198 posts)

499. Wow this is good to hear.

Could use a bit of good news about now.

Thankyou CherokeeDem,

Reply to this post

Response to joshcryer (Reply #108)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:09 PM

Smarmie Doofus (14,498 posts)

138. Interesting, this aspect.

Do you have a link handy?

Also... how do we *know* 90% is destroyed. I mean does the UN send inspectors to Nevada, or wherever?

Reply to this post

Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #138)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:15 PM

joshcryer (61,774 posts)

153. Not the UN, it's a separate entity cooperating with the UN.

OPCW: http://www.opcw.org/

CMA controls the destruction of our chemical weapons (and yes the OPCW inspects our sites and reports to the UN): http://www.cma.army.mil/

The reason the deadline got pushed up is because Bush delayed funding for the program: http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/us-chemical-weapons-disposal-slippage-no-surprise-expert-says/

Reply to this post

Response to joshcryer (Reply #153)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:09 AM

Cheviteau (378 posts)

403. I agree with you.

But best of all I like your tag line.

Reply to this post

Response to joshcryer (Reply #108)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:11 PM

YOHABLO (7,358 posts)

Just shortly before we attacked.

What kind of a moron would brag about having destroyed all of their weapons - when they have hostile neighbors?

He was railroaded, there wasn't anything Saddam Hussein could do. The decision to attack Iraq was made when the Supreme Court ruled that Dubya won in 2000.

Reply to this post

Response to Blanks (Reply #389)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:34 AM

RC (25,592 posts)

407. Actually, the decision was made well before that.

William Jefferson Clinton winning the Presidency, messed up their plans. One of the reason the Saddam's WMD were out dated and useless, by the time the Neocons got their chance again, eight years later.
You are correct Saddam was railroaded. We helped put Saddam in power to maintain stability in the region. Of that he did do a good job. Baghdad was safe at night. Women could drive, teach in the universities, hold high positions in both government and private enterprise. Saddam suffered terrorists poorly. There were no terrorist in the areas Saddam controlled. Baghdad was the medical center of the Middle East. Their hospitals were the best in that part of the world. You didn't need insurance either. And don't forget the World Class Museum, housing artifacts tens of thousands of years old. They were either destroyed or reside in private collections or rich people, around the world now. Our invading army stood by and watched as the museum was being looted. However, we did guard the Oil Ministry building, to prevent any damage to it or it's contents.
Why the Raa, Raa, Raa, USA, USA,USA! by some, is beyond me.

Reply to this post

Response to RC (Reply #407)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:24 AM

Blanks (4,797 posts)

438. Of course you're right on the timeline...

...and they (the neo-cons) were very transparent about their intentions in the Middle East. Dubya talked about attacking Iraq during the 2000 debates.

I wonder how many (if any) of the people who were so insistent that we attack Iraq still believe it was necessary and a good idea. I'm amazed that my 'friends' on Facebook think that Dubya was a good president. I would have thought, on the twelfth anniversary of the attack on the World Trade Center - that his pure unadulterated buffoonery was evident to everyone.

Reply to this post

Response to Blanks (Reply #438)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:22 PM

bvar22 (39,909 posts)

452. PNAC also targeted Syria.

Several original signers of the PNAC letter, Will Marshall for one,
were also the original founders of the conservative Democratic Leadership Council using Koch Brothers money.

Reply to this post

Response to joshcryer (Reply #63)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:25 AM

Skittles (135,540 posts)

344. check this out

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/10/putin-chemical-weapons-united-nations-obama/2794529/

Reply to this post

Response to Skittles (Reply #344)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:30 AM

joshcryer (61,774 posts)

345. Seen it.

Putin should be so lucky that the US allowed them back to the table. They're the ones causing the issue to begin with, delaying action for years.

Reply to this post

Response to joshcryer (Reply #345)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:31 AM

Skittles (135,540 posts)

346. what were they saying about Putin when Snowden.....

aw never mind.....not EVEN worth it

See how that works? He still maintains he doesn't need Congress even though he's going through Congress.

Reply to this post

Response to joshcryer (Reply #162)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:24 PM

Llewlladdwr (2,165 posts)

You somehow compare the NFL season vs an attack on Syria? Do men ever grow up?

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #50)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:00 PM

VanillaRhapsody (21,115 posts)

Reply to this post

Response to CAG (Reply #192)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:33 PM

joshcryer (61,774 posts)

Reply to this post

Response to mac56 (Reply #410)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:34 PM

Ferretherder (1,417 posts)

504. Thank you, my friend...

...for your recommendation.

Reply to this post

Response to Ferretherder (Reply #294)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:35 PM

cynzke (1,254 posts)

458. During a GOP Presidential Debate,

Paul Ryan stated that if Assad crossed the line and used chemical weapons we should respond with a military strike. Not boots on the ground, but a military strike none the less. Now he and GOP cohorts who would be cheer leading Romney on are against military action.

Reply to this post

Response to cynzke (Reply #458)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:36 PM

Ferretherder (1,417 posts)

505. EXACTLY!

You are so right!

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #27)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:41 PM

LukeFL (594 posts)

43. I love you

You and I speak HIS LANGUAGE

Reply to this post

Response to LukeFL (Reply #43)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:48 PM

U4ikLefty (4,012 posts)

66. Oh puke!!!

Reply to this post

Response to U4ikLefty (Reply #66)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:21 PM

Jamastiene (38,096 posts)

170. Lol!

My sentiments exactly. Reading some posts is like reading Tiger Beat.

Reply to this post

Response to LukeFL (Reply #43)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:00 AM

WorseBeforeBetter (11,441 posts)

413. A little too obvious with that one...

dontchathink?

Reply to this post

Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #413)

Thu Sep 12, 2013, 12:30 AM

LukeFL (594 posts)

519. What I can't agree with my fellow DUer?

I got from the president speech exactly what he did.

All of you amateurs should just sit back and my president use his " bick stick"

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #27)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:50 PM

msanthrope (37,549 posts)

76. You noticed the Unitary Executive thing, too? He was directly referencing the Youngstown decision,

and I have a feeling that Lindsey Graham heard that and went a little green. John McCain heard it, and will go green when someone explains it to him.

That was a pretty masterful and deft way of invoking those responsible for Article 1 to actually be responsible.

Reply to this post

Response to msanthrope (Reply #76)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:55 PM

JoePhilly (27,787 posts)

Reply to this post

Response to msanthrope (Reply #111)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:09 PM

Llewlladdwr (2,165 posts)

139. No, I'm familiar with Youngstown.

I just don't see where this speech was a rejection of the Unitary Executive doctrine.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #139)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:12 PM

msanthrope (37,549 posts)

149. When he said that he had the authority to act, but believed that this authority was

best expressed with the concurrence of Congress, that was a direct rejection of the Unitary Executive doctrine.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #149)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:16 PM

Llewlladdwr (2,165 posts)

156. I disagree.

Had the President rejected taking action without the approval of Congress I would agree with you, but he didn't go that far.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #156)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:19 PM

msanthrope (37,549 posts)

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:40 PM

Hell Hath No Fury (16,327 posts)

42. Obama needs this deal as much as al-Assad.

I have never thought O wanted to strike Syria.

I think the chem attack forced him into a corner and he sees the new proposal as a way -- a very good way, I might add -- out. The punt to Congress was also a search for a way out/buy for time, IMO.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #42)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:46 PM

JoePhilly (27,787 posts)

58. Assad needs it WAY more.

Also ... do you actually think the US diplomatic corps have not been working on Syria's Chemical weapons LONG before Assad used them? You don't think, at a minimum, after the "red-line" question a year ago, they didn't engage counter parts around the globe on exactly that issue? What do you think those folks do all day.

As for Congress ... Obama didn't punt. He's forcing this do nothing congress to take an actual position, not shout from the sidelines, but actually take a position.

Tonight, in his speech, Obama knocked some of the elements of the Unitary Executive theory off the table. Very smart. Needed to be done.

Obama could have performed limited strikes, and he's be fine. Assad on the other hand, might be dead.

Assad needed a deal far more urgently.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #58)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:02 PM

Hell Hath No Fury (16,327 posts)

114. al-Assad could have taken the military hit.

And been back in the bombing business fairly quickly with the help of his good friends, Vlad. Plus, he could have gotten a lot of mileage out of the Standing Up To The Great Satan thing.

Considering that chem weapons have been used repeatedly in Syria by both sides during the conflict, it appears there wasn't a great deal of urgency to put a stop to it. The latest attack was just too big to continue to be ignored.

If O had ordered strikes on Syria without the OK of the Congress he would be looking at never getting another thing done for the rest of his term. He's not that stupid.

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #58)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:17 PM

DirkGently (12,151 posts)

160. He lost on the strike. TWICE. Obama's stuck.

What's he going to threaten now -- to strike after failing to get the support of the public or Congress?

This wasn't sabre rattling. It was an attempt to draw the sword, and the sword broke.

Assad's still got reason to compromise -- chemical weapons are of little use, and international pressure is building.

But we wouldn't be here if America had answered the call to be the World Police again.

Kudos to the administration to recognize it needed an immediate course correction to save face though. They're doing to right thing, thanks to the public pressure.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #160)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:06 PM

Beer Swiller (44 posts)

227. And ONLY to public pressure.

Maybe military as well. After all, who wants to risk Americans potentially shooting at Russians and vice-versa, as could happen if this dick-waving macho "don't call me a wus, Bill Clinton," crap continues? Think either the American or Russian military wants to risk THAT?

Don't get me wrong; I fundamentally agree with you. And the sword started breaking when the Brits said, "Not this time, mate."

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Response to Beer Swiller (Reply #227)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:50 AM

brush (35,704 posts)

395. "dick-waving macho "don't call me a wus, Bill Clinton," crap?"

Don't you mean dick-waving macho "he tried to kill my daddy, Bush/Cheney," crap?

That would be much more accurate a comparison if that was what O is about. But IMHO it's not.

He never wanted to intervene at all, thus the flipping of script by throwing it to Congress, plus the behind the scenes talks with Putin at the 2012 G20 (that info just came to light) and the talks with Putin at the most recent G20.

Kerry's mention of it in his presser was no accident (it just seemed that way to many, even some in the press).

The Russians and Syrians jumped at the chance to negotiate a surrender of the chem weapons.

Another way of putting it is "they blinked."

And not a small part of that blinking was how O handled Bin Laden. You can bet that was in the back of Assad's mind.

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Response to brush (Reply #395)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:14 AM

somethingshiny (28 posts)

415. Exactly.

Agreed 100%. It surprises me how few seem to be able to grasp this. And I believe that Kerry's description of a strike being "unbelievably small" was a veiled warning to Assad that he could personally be our "unbelievably small" target.

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #58)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:46 PM

MADem (135,425 posts)

213. Pootie desperately needs the situation to be status quo ante bellum or he's out a small fortune.

And he's strategically fucked when it comes to blue water power projection!

Never mind the billions of debt he "forgave" al Assad in exchange for a Gitmo-like deal to use the port of Tartus.....

Never mind that, without Assad, there's no Tartus for Pootie...

And without Tartus, there's no homeport for a Russian carrier in the MED, no resupply/berthing for submarines and other vessels....and no blue water glory for Pootie Poot!!!!

Never mind the fact that Syria is one of the countries that keeps the Russian weapons manufacturing business, the Pootie-MIC, humming, either....

Pootie doesn't want to lose a customer! For all these reasons...and more!

Here's the tune he's singing:

Reply to this post

Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #42)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:03 PM

DirkGently (12,151 posts)

118. Obama's in a box now. But he's handling it.

The public doesn't back a strike.

Congress isn't backing a strike.

Can't strike unilaterally, or he'll look like a maniac and the Dems will get beaten with the Unwanted War.

In fairness, though, backing the hell down was exactly the right thing to do.

Reply to this post

Response to DirkGently (Reply #118)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:13 PM

Hell Hath No Fury (16,327 posts)

152. I think everyone will be happy -

if this is pulled off. I know I will.

O isn't forced into a strike and al-Assad stays in power. Win win win for the US, al-Assad, and Russia.

I think it's the best that we can hope for.

Reply to this post

Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #42)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:37 AM

brush (35,704 posts)

391. My thoughts also

He flipped the script on all the MIC, their congressional puppets (the neo du), and the war drumming corporate media by sending it to Congress.

And just the restrained way he handled Libya and Egypt should tip everyone off that he didn't want to intervene, as should the fact that the surrender of the Syrian chem weapons has been being discussed since the 2012 G20, not just the most recent G20.

But the way he handled Bin Laden also tips off Assad and Putin that "he ain't playing around" if it comes down to it.

They basically blinked and jumped at Kerry's "accidental" mention of a negotiated surrender of the weapons.

IMHO the President, Kerry and Rice have all understood that they had to appear to be all in on the intervention in order to get the Syrians to the negotiating table on the chem weapons.

It worked, it was well played, and the Obama bashers have to quiet down a bit — although there are still some who refused to understand that this president is not W Bush being pushed by Cheney. This president actually things thinks out, considers many options and appears to use game theory in his decision making.

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:47 PM

MADem (135,425 posts)

Obama is the President of all Americans.

When he goes abroad, when he speaks to the nation, when he appears at national events, he represents everyone, not just Democrats, not just those who voted for him.

If you believe otherwise, there's nothing really more to say. We are very far apart.

Reply to this post

Response to MADem (Reply #528)

Thu Sep 12, 2013, 09:55 PM

AgingAmerican (12,958 posts)

529. You are claiming that the Tea Party are Obamas constituents?

Obama represents the Tea Party? You must have him mixed up with Ted Cruz, Michelle Bachmann, Louis Gohmert and Steven King. Those people represent the Tea Party, not a Democratic president.

Oh wait, you must be referring to the 'halfpublican' Third Way nonsense.....

And you are wrong. Democratic politicians are elected to implement Democratic policies and quash damaging RW policies, not adopt them.

A good example of this is Obama offering up damaging budget cuts to the GOP in spite of the fact that economists say they will only damage the economy. That is third way adoption of RW policies. Including the cancer as part of the cure. It is madness, and many are unfortunately blinded by it.

I liken it to Stockholm Syndrome where torture victims begin identifying with their tormentors. It has been sad to watch it unfold and it has pretty much ruined the Democratic party.

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:00 PM

graywarrior (59,440 posts)

109. That's what I thought!

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:08 PM

mountain grammy (23,101 posts)

133. That's what I heard.

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:08 PM

Hekate (68,971 posts)

229. I heard that too: Not bluffing, but giving peace a chance.

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:31 PM

Beer Swiller (44 posts)

262. You really believe this deal was Obama's idea.

Wow. Just wow. Well, take comfort in your fantasy.

My take, and you'll never agree with it, is that Obama wanted a war of his very own. Very badly. As a distraction from the NSA scandal, from the declining standard of living of most Americans(of whom I'm sure you are not one of, or you wouldn't be saying what you do on a daily basis), from the impending cut in Food Stamps effective October 1, from the growing realization that the lack of cost-controls in the Affordable Care Act is nothing but a mandatory bonanza for the health insurance corporations, from the impending bursting of the student loan bubble, and gods know what else. There's a whole lot going really, really wrong with our economy, you know. And Obama has done absolutely nothing to make it better. Nah, even if you know it, you'll never admit it. Too bad.

And you back this guy because he has the Democratic Party label. If he were Republican, I doubt you would be saying the same things; oh, yes, I doubt that very much. But you have to cheer for your Blue Team.

Well, cheer away. Vladimir Putin just gave Barack Obama the chance to save his political life from his own unnecessary and foolish Red Line, not because Putin likes Obama, but because Putin doesn't want to risk a nuclear war with America, old KGB colonel that he is. And somebody in Washington told Obama that he'd better take that deal, or else.

This wasn't umptidimensional chess. This whole thing about attacking Syria was sheer stupidity on the Obama Administration's part. Not to mention completely unnecessary, dangerous, and foolish.

If I were you, I'd send Vladimir a Christmas card. I know I will. And I don't even like the SOB.

Reply to this post

Response to Beer Swiller (Reply #262)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:11 AM

Carolina (6,960 posts)

296. Touché!

Welcome to DU and thanks for your excellent response to some of the real 'swill' that is littering this thread.

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Response to Carolina (Reply #296)

Name removed Message auto-removed

Response to Beer Swiller (Reply #262)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:35 AM

beerandjesus (1,301 posts)

390. Awesome post! +1

Although I really don't believe Obama's motivations were quite as craven as you make them out to be....

Reply to this post

Response to Beer Swiller (Reply #262)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:02 AM

Number23 (24,544 posts)

432. So Putin gave Snowden asylum as a way to give the finger to the US

but according to you, Putin decided to give Obama an out for reasons of pure goodness and benevolence and to "avoid a nuclear war?"

What in the world?

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Response to Number23 (Reply #432)

Name removed Message auto-removed

Response to Name removed (Reply #489)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 05:31 PM

Number23 (24,544 posts)

495. I take great comfort in the knowledge that the number of people that think that Putin

"outmaneuvered" the President on this issue are few, small and dwell primarily in this forum.

Your assessment of Putin's behavior on Snowden makes a lot more sense.

Reply to this post

Response to Beer Swiller (Reply #262)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:41 AM

arewenotdemo (2,364 posts)

440. I agree with everything you said...until the very last line.

I love the mother.

Also, let's not forget Libya. But Obama wasn't content with overthrowing the Libyan regime and killing Qaddafi, he was on the move again. He's been waging a covert war against Syria and Assad for the last two years. He's been exceedingly reckless when one considers the volatility of the Middle East and the fact that he's been targeting Russian allies.....sorry, client states.

And when it gets down to it, we have the American people and, largely, Republican Congressional representatives to thank for putting the brakes on his foolish rush to yet another war.

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:38 PM

grahamhgreen (15,741 posts)

270. Assad, I'm not bluffing, you know how much money we'll make off WWIII :)

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:06 PM

awoke_in_2003 (34,582 posts)

466. I need some ketchup for my crow. nt

Reply to this post

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:30 PM

The Link (757 posts)

4. Military strikes in national security interest of the US. Make my children safer.

Huh?

Reply to this post

Response to The Link (Reply #4)

Awknid This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to The Link (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:20 PM

truedelphi (32,324 posts)

243. Dubya explained all this some years back. We gotta kill them

Over there, so they don't kill us over here!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:30 PM

quinnox (20,600 posts)

5. It reflects the confused situation of today

I think it was a pretty good speech, all in all. But things are in flux right now, so that was reflected in the speech, good or bad.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:31 PM

winter is coming (11,785 posts)

6. Not only was it incoherent, I had the impression that the President knew it.

It was a turd-polishing attempt to appear on top of what's happening.

Reply to this post

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:31 PM

Crimson76 (79 posts)

7. 100% correct Mr. Pitt

Reply to this post

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:31 PM

trueblue2007 (13,897 posts)

8. tell you you're wrong? I THINK YOU ARE WRONG.

IT WAS A GOOD SPEECH.

i am still thinking of the hundreds of children - women - men writhing in pain and then dying horrible death.

Reply to this post

Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:42 PM

Hell Hath No Fury (16,327 posts)

45. Like the ones killled by our own drones?

Are you ready to get a war on over them??

Reply to this post

Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:42 PM

Luminous Animal (27,310 posts)

46. Yes. In Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and Libya. Now we need to

kill Syrians to stop Syrians from killing Syrians.

Reply to this post

Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:48 PM

Politicalboi (15,189 posts)

69. I liked his speech too but,

What about the children we kill? I guess those children are just too bloody to show on TV. How can the US EVER talk about the killing of children. Like somehow a gas death is worse than a bombing death. I'm glad we are going to wait and see for now. I hope and believe by his talk about specific targets, we WON'T have ANY children killed or ANY innocent people killed.

I want to trust our President, but hypocrisy doesn't suit him well.

Reply to this post

Response to Politicalboi (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:34 PM

golfguru (4,987 posts)

266. The children we kill won't be wreathing in pain

The chemical poisons deliver painful death lasting hours.
Our Cruise missiles will decapitate the children instantly. They will not know what hit them! /Sarc

I was at first for punishing Assad with missile strikes, but now I have made a 180 deg turn. I think we are better off not attacking Syria, no matter how small the strike. It results in no gain and much pain.

Reply to this post

Response to golfguru (Reply #266)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:39 AM

Democracyinkind (4,015 posts)

363. I hope you are kidding. nt

Reply to this post

Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #363)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:00 PM

golfguru (4,987 posts)

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #127)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:08 PM

former9thward (23,884 posts)

132. You are not the world.

Even though you think you are.

Reply to this post

Response to former9thward (Reply #132)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:29 PM

dbackjon (6,578 posts)

258. Only America haters think that

Reply to this post

Response to dbackjon (Reply #258)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:28 AM

former9thward (23,884 posts)

418. Yeah, America love it or leave it!!!

Where have I heard that before????

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #127)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:16 PM

MADem (135,425 posts)

Russia was trying to save Assad.

Reply to this post

Response to Eko (Reply #103)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:07 PM

JoePhilly (27,787 posts)

130. Because Russia knew Obama was not bluffing.

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #72)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:03 PM

DJ13 (23,671 posts)

115. To keep Assad in power, which blocks the pipeline Russia doesnt want

Reply to this post

Response to DJ13 (Reply #115)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:06 PM

JoePhilly (27,787 posts)

125. Strikes weren't intend to remove him from power.

Reply to this post

Response to JoePhilly (Reply #125)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:21 PM

DJ13 (23,671 posts)

173. Mission creep began to mention regime change

McCain included it in the Senate resolution that passed.

Reply to this post

Response to DJ13 (Reply #173)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:35 PM

Proud Liberal Dem (20,966 posts)

201. Um.....McCain isn't President nor does he speak for President Obama

They're upset because we won't be bombing Syria and everyone will follow international law. What, no WW3? Bor-ring!!!

'What about my furrows of worry? I have a lot invested in this! It just has to be real!'

Oh, no, please, don't give credit to diplomacy!

Singing 'give peace a chance' my ass! And all the while spewing hate and everything but love.

Gotta keep that energy going! Peace doesn't sell books and airtime!

Reply to this post

Response to freshwest (Reply #455)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:35 PM

MADem (135,425 posts)

457. I don't think a lot of the detractors on this thread are going to like the home page today either...

http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/1017144684

The waiter in this place serves up one helluva meal!

Reply to this post

Response to MADem (Reply #457)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:38 PM

freshwest (53,661 posts)

459. Woot! Let me go take a peek and be back. Thanks, MADem!

EDIT: The Earl sure does! And I love the name of that server, 'Betterment.'

Reply to this post

Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #59)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:55 PM

iandhr (6,852 posts)

93. Actually no

Last edited Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:14 PM - Edit history (2)

If diplomacy fails the President can come back to congress and the American people and say.

"The United States has made a good faith effort to resolve the situation diplomatically. Unfortunately these efforts have come up short. I now ask congress to authorize the use of force"

If that happened I think many Americans who are currently against would change their minds.

Reply to this post

Response to iandhr (Reply #93)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:26 PM

LukeFL (594 posts)

Reply to this post

Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #54)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:35 PM

sarcasmo (20,797 posts)

268. +1

Reply to this post

Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:10 PM

Cal Carpenter (4,958 posts)

140. How far from reality must you be to even conceive of such a thing?

What the fuck.

You think people desperately want innocent civilians halfway across the planet to be killed by US bombs just so they can complain about the president?

How the fuck does your brain come up with shit like that?

What does that say about *you*?

Reply to this post

Response to Cal Carpenter (Reply #140)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:09 AM

DisgustipatedinCA (12,530 posts)

Reply to this post

Response to NuclearDem (Reply #182)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:09 AM

CountAllVotes (19,451 posts)

433. You have learned something

It is called Power to the People.

When the people act as a unit and in a way that demands attention, attention is had.

I wrote to my senators and the message was simple.

NO WAR IN SYRIA NO WAR IN SYRIA NO WAR IN SYTRIA

Understand?

Maybe they don't understand but they didn't cross that line with the American people that want nothing at all do with another damned war to add to other damned wars that are already going on around the world and such wars are being paid for by you and me already. Enough already a long long time ago!

Peace!

Reply to this post

Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #433)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:42 PM

burnsei sensei (1,820 posts)

to see that lolcat in you post. Nothing sums up better the frame of mind I am in. Thanks for the much need laugh.

Reply to this post

Response to snagglepuss (Reply #441)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:29 PM

freshwest (53,661 posts)

470. You're welcome. Apply liberally as needed!

Reply to this post

Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:37 AM

morningfog (18,115 posts)

313. If you start with "The haters..." you have conceded you have no argument.

The rest simply verifies that.

Reply to this post

Response to morningfog (Reply #313)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:24 AM

Cali_Democrat (30,439 posts)

327. What about if someone calls me a cultist?

Does that mean they have conceded they have no argument?

Reply to this post

Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:43 AM

beerandjesus (1,301 posts)

393. What an assholish comment.

Worthy of a teabagger.

Reply to this post

Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:56 PM

noiretextatique (27,238 posts)

488. that's the most insane thing i've read here in a long while

seriously.

Reply to this post

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:31 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

10. No, you're not wrong. You pretty much summed it up.

Reply to this post

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:32 PM

NightWatcher (38,553 posts)

11. I dont think he even really neede to give the speech..unless we were bombing tomorrow

It was pretty vague and since they are going to try the diplomatic route the speech seemed kinda awkward.

and No, I'm not going to watch all the videos. Sure kids died, but kids will just as sure die in any war, or strike, or conflict...

Nothing was really accomplished by talking for a few minutes to the US tonight. No news broke, nothing was determined.

Reply to this post

Response to NightWatcher (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:46 PM

winter is coming (11,785 posts)

60. It was scheduled on the eve of the Senate vote, and I believe it was originally intended

to sell the country on intervention, to put pressure on Congress. Apparently, it was decided that re-purposing the speech would be a better idea than canceling it, so we got this strange amalgamation of "Syria bad... must bomb" and "diplomacy".

Reply to this post

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:32 PM

whatchamacallit (15,558 posts)

12. I missed it, but assumed it would be

10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag.

Reply to this post

Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:21 PM

truedelphi (32,324 posts)

Where it was coherent, it was deliberately so.

He was speaking to different constituencies AND to Russia and the Syrians.

Obama provided a few solid points, like his commitment to have Congress involved, amid a palate of shadows and tones, leaving it to the viewer to read between the lines when needed.

He's not going to paint himself into a corner, show his entire hand.

This is how it's done.

Reply to this post

Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #16)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:34 PM

freshwest (53,661 posts)

472. Well said. But still, some miss 'the beloved pair' running the country:

Those were the days of glory for some here. For me, not so much. I welcome the change in leadership.

Reply to this post

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:33 PM

struggle4progress (112,287 posts)

17. Transcript, for those inclined to read it

President Obama’s Sept. 10 speech on Syria

Reply to this post

Response to struggle4progress (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:36 PM

joshcryer (61,774 posts)

23. Words. Me. Am. Not. Able. To. Read.

So. Confusing!

Reply to this post

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:35 PM

cigsandcoffee (2,300 posts)

19. Yeah, that's about right. n/t

Reply to this post

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:35 PM

DirkGently (12,151 posts)

20. Chris Hayes nailed the fundamental contradiction.

An appeal to upholding "international norms" by a unilateral act that is illegal under the same international norms.

Essentially: American exceptionalism entitles America to be the World Police, when and where it chooses.

Reply to this post

Response to DirkGently (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:37 PM

winter is coming (11,785 posts)

26. Yes, he did nail it, as usual.

I guess we're supposed to believe It's Okay If You're An American.

Reply to this post

Response to DirkGently (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:05 PM

1awake (1,494 posts)

123. Best way I've ever heard it put.

gonna borrow that if it's okay.

Reply to this post

Response to 1awake (Reply #123)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:08 PM

DirkGently (12,151 posts)

135. I give you permission to quote Chris Hayes!

Reply to this post

Response to DirkGently (Reply #135)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:12 PM

1awake (1,494 posts)

150. ha... yea i know, but you caught it not me so... thanks! n/t

Reply to this post

Response to DirkGently (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:57 PM

Logical (22,457 posts)

220. This needs to be its own post! Thanks! n-t

Reply to this post

Response to DirkGently (Reply #20)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:40 PM

grahamhgreen (15,741 posts)

273. +1,00000000000000000000000

Reply to this post

Response to DirkGently (Reply #20)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:24 AM

jsr (7,712 posts)

304. Excellent description.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #20)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:55 AM

avaistheone1 (14,626 posts)

319. THAT as the BIG one.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #20)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:48 AM

snagglepuss (12,704 posts)

I thought I must have missed something, but maybe not.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:37 PM

Skidmore (37,364 posts)

28. I heard the man ask for some time to continue to pursue a diplomatic solution to completion.

I also didn't get the impression that this is open-ended either and I do think that he was asking for people to come together to give thought and support to a reasonable solution to the problem of chemical weapon stockpiled in Syria. AND when I see those dead kids, I understand that, had the Iran-Iraq war gotten more lopsided back in the 80s and similar weapons used on the western edge of Iran made it to Tehran, those could have been my kids. We all need to give a tinker's dam about reducing this type of weaponry in the world and we definitely should care about those they have been used against. There were more than dead kids from that attack, there were survivors too who will live with the injury and disability brought on by a ruthless man's disregard for part of his people whose existence had become inconvenient for him. I really find it intensely disturbing to hear these deaths dismissed as a nuisance to be acknowledged.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:37 PM

Whisp (24,096 posts)

29. don't talk about balls, Will. nor incoherence.

o man. you wrong. you wrong and you mad bro.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:42 PM

freshwest (53,661 posts)

474. The glory days are no more, and peace is bor-ring. Speaking of the rule of balls:

I don't miss 'the beloved pair.'

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Response to freshwest (Reply #474)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:01 PM

Whisp (24,096 posts)

476. Betty White has something to say about 'balls'.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:38 PM

RebelOne (30,947 posts)

Maybe study the Cold War in depth. Really study. Game theory.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #32)

DisgustipatedinCA This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #305)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:36 AM

DevonRex (22,541 posts)

310. Yeah, I apologize for that.

I should never have acted that way.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #310)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:47 AM

DisgustipatedinCA (12,530 posts)

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:43 PM

Darkhawk32 (2,099 posts)

when there are so many more important issues which need to be addressed.

I'm so sick of our country being the Middle East's little lap dog.

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Response to Snake Plissken (Reply #57)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:50 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

75. +1000

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Response to Snake Plissken (Reply #57)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:36 PM

RKP5637 (61,059 posts)

202. +1000!!! This endless bullshit in the middle east decade

after decade is sucking the life blood out of the US. Eventually, there will be great unrest in this country as we expend all of our resources, money and energy running around the world. Obama says we are not the policemen of the world, but I'll be damn, that's all I've seen my whole long life starting with the Vietnam war where many of my friends died.

Meanwhile, the US sinks lower and lower on the world stage, while other countries take their money, resources and energy to improve the lot of life for their citizenry, while we wage war, and they sit back.

Our foreign policy has always sucked, always!