Stop pretending racism is confined to Florida

[BainsBane]

I find it astounding that people have decided that Florida alone is responsible for the kind of racism in the American judicial system evident in the Zimmerman case. There is a bizarre myopia happening where too many want to imagine that the factors that led to Trayvon Martin's death and George Zimmerman's acquittal can all be blamed on Florida alone. Racial profiling, gun proliferation, Stand Your Ground laws, and racism in the judicial system exist throughout the country. Black males are pathologized from Alaska to Rhode Island, from California to Minnesota--in each and every one of these United States.

The focus on Florida is an effort to externalize racism, to pretend it is the product of a limited, other location. The fact is racism is all around us. Black men are profiled and killed in every state in this country, and their killers too often get off because many Americans consciously or unconsciously view African Americans as worth less than whites. This is as much about our own towns, cities, and states as it is Florida. If Florida fell off the map tomorrow, we would continue to have more Trayvon Martins and George Zimmermans. Stop looking for easy scapegoats. Racism, gun violence, and unequal justice exist in all of our communities. Pretending otherwise ignores just how serious inequality and injustice really are.

[greytdemocrat]

1. Racism is planet wide

And not limited to blacks.

[Seeking Serenity]

2. Stop over-intellectualizing it!

Stop making me actually think! My emotional catharsis is all that matters! Ever!

[BainsBane]

3. Someone actually said that to me

completely seriously when I first made this point in another thread.

[Seeking Serenity]

5. I know

I read it.

[djean111]

4. Oh, hey, announcing you are boycotting Florida is cheap and easy!

Requires nothing of you!
And likely gives a little useful cardio workout, what with all the little chests puffing out!

[BainsBane]

7. That's about it

It certainly seems like it anyway.

[Puzzledtraveller]

54. Agreed, and they get a high off it

the moral superiority it requires needs an outlet. "I feel good about myself, I'm boycotting racist Florida" for example.

[LisaLynne]

6. Very true.

Excellent point.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

8. So true, I did some research and found

Amadou Bailo Diallo, of 41 shots fame--officers acquitted of all charges, NY
Sean Bell--officers not guilty, NY
Patrick Dorismond--no indictment of officer, NY
Jonny Gammage--officer found not guilty, PA

Rodney King and on and on.

the film Fruitvale Station will chronicle the death of Oscar Grant in California

Blaming one state for a nationwide epidemic makes no sense. We are on a serious downward trajectory with no solution in sight.

[DrDan]

10. or blaming one region, for that matter - none of your examples are in the south

racism is world-wide - and to place the blame on one state is just a knee-jerk reaction

but I guess it does offer some visceral relief to some

[BainsBane]

12. None in the South

Excellent point. I think the most dangerous part of that impulse is that it underestimates the problem by imagining it is unique to one area of the country. It also stops people from reflecting how they themselves might to contributing to it.

[Bonobo]

9. That's a big, Godzilla sized straw man.

Were people pretending THAT?

[BainsBane]

11. Yes

That's exactly what the boycott Florida stuff is about. See the thread about SYG laws all over the country. People are responding by saying they are boycotting the racist state that let the killer of a black teenager go. Like there is only one place that has happened?! It's absurd.

[Bonobo]

16. Gotta start somewhere

And Florida was the first to make that abomination a law.
Their governor proudly defends it and it IS where the Trayvon Martin case happened so it is a perfect place to launch an action.
A social movement needs to start somewhere, so why NOT Florida? It is possible to understand that racism is endemic and STILL hold that a boycott of FLA is a good action in the service of change.

[BainsBane]

21. It's ridiculous

It displays an absolutely refusal to engage in thoughtful analysis about SYG, racism, or the justice system. It's part of how people deny their own role in perpetuating racism.
It won't change anything, and it shows how little people actually think. When this is what passes for activism by the left, that explains why nothing ever changes.

[BainsBane]

25. People could work to mount legal challenges to SYG

they could work for gun control. They could inform engage with the Office for Civil Right in its examination of SYG laws in their own states--since those laws are in most states in this country--and pressure their own state representatives to repeal those laws, but all of that would take actual thought, education, and work. So obviously that is out of the question. People who were never going to go to FL anyway will make a big deal about not going and blow hot air. They'll pretend they have nothing to do with racism because they don't want to confront the ways each and every one of us is imbued with racist imagery and ideas. That, however, would require actual self reflection. It's so much easier to mindlessly blame another state for a system of inequality and injustice we all form part of, and that we all share responsibility for dismantling.

[Iggo]

13. Stop pretending because it exists elsewhere, that makes it okay.

Oh, you weren't doing that, either?

[BainsBane]

14. Did you read the OP?

It certainly doesn't seem like it.

[Iggo]

15. Yes.

[BainsBane]

19. The point is not that it doesn't matter.

Rather than focusing exclusively on Florida or the South underestimates how serious racism is. It seeks to externalize the problem, to pretend it isn't part of us. It is part of us. It's part of our communities, our culture, and our psyche, and it's up to each and everyone of us to combat it.

[Iggo]

37. Obvious strawman is obvious.

You set up yours. I set up mine.

And now I'm done explaining the obvious.

[BainsBane]

47. So you prefer not to have a substantive discussion

or think about the issue. That really is the point. The whole focus on Florida willfully ignores the larger problem in favor of feeling good about doing nothing.

[Iggo]

55. You started it, buddy

[Paladin]

17. Looking forward to the same discernment and tolerance being exhibited toward Texas.

Just because brain-dead region and state bashing is allowed on DU, doesn't make it right---Florida, Texas, the South, wherever.....

[BainsBane]

18. It's not even the region bashing that bothers me

It's underestimating the scope of the problem by fixating on a particular state or region.

[Paladin]

23. Your point is valid and I certainly agree with it.....

...but I suspect that region-bashing would bother you a great deal, if you and every citizen of Minnesota were constantly and viciously blamed for inflicting Michelle Bachmann on the world. DU'ers from Florida are getting a taste of what we Texas DU'ers have been putting up with for years.

[BainsBane]

26. I hear you

I used to live in both Texas and Florida.

[Niceguy1]

40. California

Is no different than Florida, and it is a blue state.

[Scurrilous]

49. ...

[HiPointDem]

20. stop throwing up straw men

[RevStPatrick]

22. My wife cancelled her trip to Florida this weekend...

She was going to some kind of reunion, and decided to stay home.
Overall it cost her about $300 to cancel, and she is fine with that.

The last time she was there was a month or so after the shooting happened, and she got into a couple of very uncomfortable conversations with people. She has been upset about the whole thing, and the verdict just made her never want to step foot in the state that she grew up in ever again. She said that one conversation with one person who is a "Zimmerman supporter" (which is likely to happen) will ruin whatever fun she has the rest of the time.

It's a visceral thing. Kinda like my mom, who was arrested and jailed during the 1968 Chicago convention, has never been back to Chicago. In fact a couple of years ago, we were traveling somewhere together, and had to make a connecting flight at O'Hare. She realized that that was the first time she had been anywhere near Chi-town in about 40 years. It brought back a flood of negative memories, and she said "c'mon, let's find our gate and get out of here."

It's a visceral thing. Humans do that. Sweetie and I live in NYC and know young men who've had to deal with Stop and Frisk their entire lives. We know damn well that our home has some terrible racial problems, and that no place is immune to racism.

It's a visceral thing, exactly like what you are doing with this OP. It's a way of venting like how you are venting. And I think that's OK. And I think it's OK to say "let's pick one place as a symbol and try to do something about it." Start in one place and maybe other places will follow.

Personally, I don't think that a "boycott" of Florida is going to affect a single thing in the short run. Maybe it will in the long run, maybe not. Maybe like with Arizona and immigration, it will get the conversation moving along more, maybe it won't make a damn bit of difference.

This country is pretty fucked up right now, and I don't think there are too many people who are "blaming it on Florida alone." Yes, it's an easy target at the moment and a scapegoat. It's a symbol. Sometimes people need symbols. Sometimes symbols become icons, and icons beget change. At some point, the focus will move elsewhere. Maybe the next incident will be the thing that finally gets things moving in the right direction. Maybe it will be the incident after that.

Maybe never...

[BainsBane]

43. I understand the viseral reaction

but imagine if everyone had stopped going to NY after Amadou Diallo was killed?

[RevStPatrick]

50. Maybe they should have?

Maybe things would have changed if they had?

[BainsBane]

53. The Martin case is a protest against a jury verdict

Not the police. How is a boycott going to change juries?

[davidpdx]

24. I agree with you

While the Martin case in Florida is upsetting, it certainly isn't the only state with racism or SYG laws for that matter. It is possible that the same thing could happen in any number of other states.

[BainsBane]

27. Not only could

but has. California and New York have some famous cases, but I bet all of us could find examples from our own states if we bothered to investigate.

[CatWoman]

28. Fuck Florida

[Boom Sound 416]

62. Fuck cats

[HappyMe]

29. I don't think that Florida is the

only place that racism exists. Nor do I think that it's responsible for all the ills of the US. The only reason people are focusing on FL now is because of Zimmy.

[BainsBane]

30. What bothers me is pretending a boycott of Florida will accomplish

anything related to the Z./Martin case. If the goal is to repeal SYG, why not work on SYG in their own states? Those laws exist in most states in this country. Black men are killed in every state and whites get away with it in every state.

[HappyMe]

32. People are very upset about the verdict.

It's that feeling of helplessness that drives people to think that they have to do something, anything to make themselves heard. I'm sure that individual state governments will be hearing from residents about their SYG laws, if they have them.
If people want to boycott FL, there isn't much anybody can do to stop it.

[Bettie]

31. I don't think that anyone has ever said that racism is confined to Florida

But, recently, there have been several cases that highlight it in the justice system in Florida.

So, people are talking about Florida. Talking about these cases and referencing, say, Wisconsin's justice system wouldn't be all that productive.

Right now, it is Florida. I'm sure that some other state will fall under the microscope before too long.

[BainsBane]

33. So why boycott Florida?

When SYG laws exist in most states, when black men are killed by whites who get off scott free in every single state? Then we have threads blaming racism on the South. I understand that ethos. I grew up in Minnesota being taught that racism was something that existed only in the South. I figured out that was bullshit, however.

[Bettie]

59. I'm not boycotting Florida

In fact, we have a vacation booked there in September.

However, that doesn't change the fact that recently, there have been some very serious questions raised about the legal system in Florida. They really don't, for lack of a better phrase, have their act together at all.

Your governor is also a douche, but so is mine, here in Iowa.

[BainsBane]

60. He's not my governor

I'm in Minnesota. Shall I blame you for that nut job Steve King?
There are calls for a boycott and posts about Florida. That's what this thread is about, not you personally.

[Bettie]

61. Steve King is not my rep...I'm in Bruce Braley's district

I don't know what kind of mental illness is running amok in his district.

But, I know that there are calls to boycott Florida. I also know that there seem to be very serious issues in the legal system there.

I don't necessarily agree with the boycott, but I also understand the reasons why people would go that direction.

From your comments, I figured you were from there.

[BainsBane]

64. You don't think there are serious issues in the legal system in the other 49 states?

I don't have to be from Florida to consider racism in the justice system a serious matter.

[Bettie]

65. But there have been several cases in Florida which highlighted these issues

I am working to keep SYG out of my state, in what ways I can (by writing letters to my reps), but people comment on the cases that are better known.

I also see that there is racism in the justice system all over. It isn't limited to Florida.

Florida is, right now, the illustration of the larger problem.

Wait a month or two and I'm sure another state will provide an illustration as well.

What do you want?

Do you expect people to say there isn't a problem in Florida because there are problems elsewhere?

If you live in Minnesota, why are you so invested in what people think about Florida?

[BainsBane]

66. No, I want people to acknowledge the broader problem

and do what you are doing on a local level.

You keep thinking this is about Florida. You misunderstand the point. This is about the endemic racism that persists in American society and the justice system. By limiting the discussion to Florida, people ignore just how serious the problem really is.

[Bettie]

70. When people feel helpless, they look for something they can do

A boycott is a thing to do, to try to exert economic pressure to improve a situation.

Whether it works or not depends on a lot of factors.

Did you start this post just to harangue people? Because I'm not understanding the point here.

No one has said that racial issues are limited to Florida. No. One.

[BainsBane]

71. harangue people?

I started it in an effort to get people to think about racism and the justice system. I'm sorry you find that so objectionable.

[Hugabear]

34. No, but it is more widespread and institutionalized in the South

Racism exists everywhere, but it's much more prevalent and institutionalized throughout the south.

To deny otherwise is to ignore reality.

[BainsBane]

36. It manifests itself differently in the North and South

SYG laws aren't limited to the South, nor are murders of unarmed African Americans. Here are some examples. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023319668#post8

In what ways do you think it remains more institutionalized in the South?

[kwassa]

63. Here is one way racism is institutionalized in the South

Twenty states still allow schools to administer corporal punishment and some don’t require parental consent or notification. Some have “teacher immunity laws” to protect employees from criminal or civil action. The practice is most prevalent in southern states such as Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee, Florida and Texas.

“Texas is the leading state and that’s why we’re here,” Flowe said. “They report more than 80,000 cases a year. The school superintendent said there’s more, but they don’t want to look bad. Number one is black boys, then black girls, Latinos, Native Americans and children with special needs. Twenty percent are autistic, mentally retarded or physically challenged. That’s just the reported cases, and reporting isn’t mandatory.”

http://thegrio.com/2010/12/03/black-students-bear-brunt-of-corporal-punishment-in-schools/

Corporal punishment in public schools.

http://www.corpun.com/counuss.htm

[BainsBane]

72. I wasn't aware of that

Thanks for the link. That truly is awful.

[snooper2]

35. No, the rest of the country is perfect, just Florida is fucked up...

It messes up the shape of the United States as well, I say we cut it off and give it to Cuba as a play thing. They can keep the people too

[alc]

38. stop pretending "anything" about racism

It's not confined geographically. It's not one-way. It doesn't explain everything that anyone does that someone doesn't like.

There's a lot of pretending on both (all?) sides.

"racism" and "racist" are used to stop lots of discussions where nobody has brought up race but "we all know the true intent". Actually we don't all know the true intent and that use stops those discussions while at the same time diminishing the value of charges of "racism". The person who's shut down for an honest non-race-based opinion on one topic is not likely to participate in the next discussion on how to fix racism. He/she's already seen personally how "racism" is not as bad as it's made out to be. Even if "not as bad" is only by one person in one discussion that one person knows it to be the case (and arguing that they have a subconscious racist attitude that they aren't aware of won't usually change their mind so that's probably not a useful approach to ending racism).

Some people dislike Obama's economic policy or gitmo policy or drug policy or whatever because they dislike the policy, not because they dislike having a black man as president.

Unequal justice is worse for blacks (I'm white and don't have experience but I'll accept that.) But it also applies to ANY poor person vs a wealthy person doing the same thing or charged with the same crime. Why all the focus on the racial component rather than trying to level the field for everyone?

My wife grew up on food stamps and section 8 housing (she's white). It's not a single-race issue. But the loudest attacks when someone tries to cut those programs is often about how they are racist not about what a society should do for anyone in need.

[BainsBane]

39. All the focus on race is a matter of fact

It is not just a question of poverty. Statistics make that very clear. Blacks are arrested for the same crimes at a higher rate than whites. They are convicted at a higher rate and sentenced to longer prison terms. They are also sentenced to the death penalty more frequently. In fact, the single greatest factor in determining if someone gets the death penalty is the race of the victim. Those who kill African Americans are sentenced to death at FAR lower rates than those who kill whites. Clearly juries view black life as having less value.

To pretend racism is not endemic to the judicial system and American society more generally is to deny reality. When one refuses to admit a problem exists, he actively participates in perpetrating it. It's not a questioning of calling someone "racist." It's examining honestly the role of race in the judicial system. It's a matter of examining how each of us is influenced by cultural stereotypes and whether we choose to confront or perpetuate them.

[treestar]

41. Other states haven't produced such an infamous verdict

though they may have stand your ground laws. None of their juries are proven to allow such a case to allow the perpetrator to walk.

[BainsBane]

42. Not true

That you aren't aware of it doesn't mean other states haven't produced those verdicts. You are factually wrong. Here are some examples. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023319668#post8

[treestar]

44. What were the facts on those cases

That would matter. The facts in the Martin case were especially egregious. Zimmerman declares he does not want someone to get away, and then approaches against police advice, when he did not have to. Yet he's defending himself.

[BainsBane]

46. You need to look them up yourself

Rodney King's beating was caught on video. Amado Diallo was riddled with hundreds of bullets. Oscar Grant was killed on a subway train. I would say most of them were far more egregious than the Martin case since there was clear evidence that these young men were murdered without provocation. Many of those are well known cases you should familiarize yourself with by googling them.

[treestar]

48. Rodney King had been speeding on the freeway

and cops had to chase him down. They should not have beaten him. But he was not just walking down the street. He had been speeding in his car and the officers were OK to have stopped him for that. He was an adult. The cops are supposed to stop speeders, whereas Zimmerman had no reason to encounter Trayvon at all.

Diallo again involved cops and they at least thought he was pulling out a gun - they were wrong, but they thought he looked like a suspect they were looking for - they didn't suspect him of generally wrong based on nothing, like Zimmerman did.

The jury in Grant decided it was an accident and he was convicted on involuntary manslaughter which was at least something - Zimmerman should have been convicted of manslaughter at least. Also involved cops and a claim at least of resisting arrest.

The Martin case is far more egregious than all of those - Zimmerman was not a cop yet he profiled someone for walking in the street and then evidenced a determination that he not get away.

[BainsBane]

51. All were terrible injustices

and show the low value our justice system placed on the lives of black men. There is currently a thread in GD of a black teenage boy killed in NC where a man was sentenced to only 1 year in jail. This stuff happens frequently.

[lpbk2713]

45. Dog piling at its finest.

I have to wonder how well thought out some of the posts are.
Or if any thought went into them at all.

[rrneck]

52. Racism is everywhere.

So is classism. And consumerism.

Isms Isms everywhere
and nere a stop to think.

[William769]

56. People are inferring that I am a racist because if what I think of the so called Florida boycott.

Fools every last one of them. I have said it before and I will say it again the so called Florida boycott is is nothing but a joke and is being driven my emotion and nothing else (feel free to take a dump on this post also).

I have a damn good idea what discrimination is and racism is no different. This needs to be addressed nationally period. And until people here inferring that I am a racist want to address this sad state of affair, I'm done with this. I will still work to help eliminate racism but only with people that want to eliminate it and not just lash out at everything that doesn't fit their mold.

[BainsBane]

57. I understand an initial angry reaction

but if the point is to effect change, an amorphous boycott of Florida is not going to do it. I think it needs to be addressed at both the federal, state, and local level--not for just Florida but for all of our communities. SYG is the law in most states in this country. We can have greater influence over our own states because we elect representatives.

[William769]

58. I couldn't agree more.

[CatWoman]

67. no one is remotely saying that

[BainsBane]

69. I have seen people say pretty much that

In the thread about how SYG laws have spread throughout the US, someone responded that they were boycotting "racist state" that let a white man get away with killing a young black man. Like there is just one?! Like the justice system isn't racist throughout the country?!

People have mistaken my OP to be some sort of defense of FL. It is not. I don't live in FL. I used to live there but didn't like it. I live in deep blue Minneapolis (which happens to have one of the most racist and corrupt police forces in America). What concerns me is by focusing so much on Florida people are underestimating just how widespread and serious the problem is.

[Egalitarian Thug]

68. Nobody is thinking or pretending that. Racism is everywhere, Floriduh made itself a target

by being so profoundly open about its particular brand.