What's with all the libertarians on DU?

[Galraedia]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Hassin Bin Sober (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Last edited Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:57 PM - Edit history (1)

Seriously, it's like a whole shit-load of Paulbots just invaded DU. I haven't seen this much anti-government paranoia since far-right loonytarian Alex Jones started accusing the U.S. government of using weather weapons to create tornadoes.




Update: This thread is not meant to be an attack on people who are against government surveillance and for protecting civil liberties. It's an observation that some people are taking their anti-government paranoia to libertarian levels of stupidity. To give you an example: it's like listening to paranoid pro-gun nuts talking about "the gubmint iz comin with dem black helicopters to take yer gunz". Nobody in their right mind wants to listen to that shit. Tone it down a notch.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Are you whining?

About DU?

[Galraedia]

6. No, libertarians.

[NYC_SKP]

11. Name names, list the usernames.

Call them out while you still can.

We need to know them by their deeds.

Links and names, please!

[pnwmom]

13. We can't. Snowden's got all the lists.

[flamingdem]

23. .

[NYC_SKP]

24. Launch the drones!

[alittlelark]

30. DUzy

[graham4anything]

153. LOL

[cali]

177. want to call me out? go ahead call me a libertarian. do it.

[pnwmom]

218. I don't believe in name-calling here.

[backscatter712]

152. +1! Those accusing DUers of being Paulbots need to name names and provide evidence.

Since I've seen no such evidence, let's just send this to the hosts to lock - "No whining about DU!"

[newthinking]

103. Democratic thought does not always include "blind trust"

This is one place where a two party system struggles. Thre are multiple components of liberal views. A spectrum.

In addition, this divide is less of a disagreement in values on what services the government should provide, but due to the growing "trust divide" with our government.

I think we all agree that our government is not doing everything well these days, and while it does many things well and with the people in mind, there is a genuine problem with responsiveness, transparency, and accountability.

Most Totalitarian governments have social programs. Many Democrats consider good government not just a factor of it's social priorities, but of it's protection of civil liberties as well.

You do a disservice and add a certain ignorance to the discussion by voicing the idea that your fellow Democrats are libertarians. That is simply not the case.

[quinnox]

2. no whining about DU.

There is always hide thread and "ignore", if you see things you disagree with, or find disturbing.

[Whisp]

3. This will be locked as Whining.

You have to find a better way to phrase it, but still mean the same thing. Them's the rules now.

[ram2008]

4. Young people do not take kindly to infringements on privacy and violations of civil liberties...

Predictably, most younger people are Democrats, and also predictably we are pissed off at Obama's continuance of Bush's neocon surveillance state tactics.

[Tarheel_Dem]

7. Speak for yourself. Not all "young people" think as you do.

[ram2008]

15. Hence the usage of the word "most"

Obama's approval rating is declining because he's seen a huge drop off in his approval with the 18-25 demo. To most young people internet freedom/protection/privacy is one of the most important issues.

[Cha]

29. No, President Obama approval rating is not declining.. that's just more bullshit..

Obama Liberals Aren’t Buying the Media’s False Equivalency to Bush

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110211236

"The remarkable consistency of President Obama’s job approval numbers"

New numbers from Pew Research Center tell that story. Forty nine percent of respondents approved of the job President Obama while 43 percent disapproved. Those numbers are remarkably unchanged from where Obama stood in a January Pew poll despite the fact that the past five and a half months have seen the failure of the White House’s attempt to change gun laws, the IRS scandal, evidence of an improving economy, the NSA revelations and plenty of other “major” news events.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/06/19/the-remarkable-consistency-of-president-obamas-job-approval-numbers/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1102&pid=11168

[Tarheel_Dem]

40. Thanks for that Cha. They can't stand it. The prez is recovering, and they're bitter about it.

[Cha]

43. Yeah, when all else fails.. whine about PBO's "declining aprroval ratings" they just

pulled outta their ass.

So bitter.. the Pres Obama venom is touching.. to a reptile.

[Tarheel_Dem]

51. Even the netroots (real activists) dismissed most of the shit we're reading on the DU. It's the....

clash of actual liberals vs. those who play "liberals" on the internet.

[ram2008]

62. Guess it takes a real liberal to defend rampant domestic spying and shady corporatism?

Guess I'm not a real "liberal" then. Have fun with the neo-con party.

[Tarheel_Dem]

79. Have fun at Occupy! Oh wait....

[sabrina 1]

159. When they bring in the 'netroots' a Third Way invention to control Liberals, you know where they are

coming from. Feel complimented by the sources. I know I do.

[Number23]

182. But here's the thing -- THERE IS NO CLASH

It's the clash of actual liberals vs. those who play "liberals" on the internet.

Who besides black people have been Obama's strongest supporters from DAY ONE?? LIBERALS. Which is one of the many, many, MANY reasons that the non-stop caterwauling on DU has NEVER made any sense.

Just like you said, at Netroots, the folks there were as pissed off by the Green Teabaggers as everyone else is. The fringe, in their endless quest to mitigate moderates, have done nothing but put the bulls eye on their own backs.

The OP, you and a bunch of others have got it completely right. This is not about liberals. This is about whatever the hell these endlessly wailing, "leftier than thou" know nothings are around here and a few other places who latch on to any conspiracy, no matter how half-assed or destructive and then bring themselves to "release" by putting everyone who disagrees with them or has another view on ignore. And no one can convince me that these people are liberals with their "we need to burn the world down before we can fix it" mind set. I think the other L word in the OP sums it up more accurately.

[freshwest]

192. Awesome, thank you!!

[graham4anything]

217. +1

[Summer Hathaway]

95. A lot of them just can't help it, Cha

There are people here who actually believe that DU is reflective of the real world.

They see all of the anti-Obama shit posted here, and assume that the rest of the Party thinks/feels the same way.

It's always a shock to the shut-ins, if and when they ever venture out from behind their computers, to realize that DU has nothing to do with reality.

[ram2008]

53. Sure I believe ya...

[img][/img]

[Cha]

64. No, what you're doing is outing yourself as an incompetent

3rd grader.

[ram2008]

71. Coming from the person who has refused to answer any questions without attacking the messenger.

You'd think you'd be able to do that... I mean you have 126,000 posts. What do you post about all day?

[Cha]

105. Sorry, most young people are smarter than "Ron Paul is dreamy" assholes.

Deal with it.

[ram2008]

107. Again you are incapable of having a rational conversation without name calling. Grow up.

No one was talking about Ron Paul. We're talking about NSA/Prism.

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. Can you describe "huge dropoff"? He's back at 50% in Gallup's 3 day rolling average. He's had dips

before, and he's always recovered. I suspect other polls will catch up. People are feeling pretty good about the economy. DOMA was struck down. Prop 8 returned to the lower court ruling. Jobless claims were down again this week. It'll take some time, but I'm sure others polling will soon follow. Having followed the POTUS from early on, I've seen the valleys & the peaks, and he always returns to peak.

I tell you what, why don't we just not vote for him again? How's that?

[ram2008]

48. Gallup was so accurate in the election right? LOL. Here:

I'm going by the aggregate: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

As for the youth dropoff:

According to a CNN/ORC poll released Monday, a mere 48 percent of 18-to-34-year-olds approve of President Obama’s job performance. In May, that number was 63 percent.

In total, the president’s approval dropped 17 points among those under the age of 30, according to CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. Young voters and African-Americans were the two most loyal coalitions to the president in 2008 and 2012.

[Tarheel_Dem]

75. CNN? No other poll show that steep decline, and it was disputed by polling experts.

"In Contrast to CNN poll, Pew Shows Stable Approval Rating for Obama"

A new survey from Pew Research Center released Wednesday indicated that President Barack Obama has largely weathered the controversies that have consumed the country's attention as of late — a far cry from a survey released earlier this week that showed his approval rating had dipped sharply.

The Pew poll showed that 49 percent of Americans approve of the job Obama is doing while 43 percent said they disapproved. Those numbers are virtually identical to Pew's poll in May, when 51 percent said they approved of the President's job performance and 43 percent said they disapproved.

While some pointed to the CNN/ORC numbers as evidence that Obama had been weakened by news of the Internal Revenue Service's targeting of conservative groups and the National Security Agency's sweeping surveillance programs, others such as polling expert Mark Blumenthal cautioned that the survey may have exaggerated the President's actual decline.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/in-contrast-to-cnn-poll-pew-shows-stable

[ram2008]

82. The trend is still downward on both aggregations

I could care less about Obama anyway, he's a puppet. What I would like to see is people speaking out about NSA/PRISM and its gross overreach and disregard for privacy.

[Tarheel_Dem]

93. Don't hurt yourself there! Tough work defending your initial "disinformation". I get it.

[ram2008]

100. There was no initial disinformation

I stated young people value privacy more than old people, especially regarding internet privacy. That is a fact.
I stated young people do not support the NSA/PRISM's actions. That is a fact.
I stated there has been a decline in President Obama'd approval. That is also a fact.
I stated that the decline could be driven by a decline in support among young people. This fact can be disputed but there is some evidence for it.

Some people, like you, feel the compulsive need to defend President Obama from everything. I'm not one of those people.

[Tarheel_Dem]

104. Alrighty then. You take care!

[GoneOffShore]

117. Let's see - I'm 65

I value my privacy a great deal, especially on the internet. When I send email for business and sometimes for pleasure I use an encryption program.
I do not support the NSA in any way, shape or form.

The rest of your utterances are unsupported assertions.

And by the way, I support President Obama - I don't agree with all of his positions, all the time, but I support him.

As we use to say, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[cali]

189. nonsense. Young people are the ones that relinquish their privacy willingly

all over the net. In any case, generalizations, even those based on polls, generally suck.

Are you old enough to remember privacy?

Teens and even young adults have grown up in an environment where sharing information about themselves online is not just encouraged but expected.

Yet there's a disconnect between the attitudes young people express about online privacy and their actual behavior.

A Washington Post-Pew Research Center released on Monday showed Americans ages 18-29 place a higher priority on privacy than any other age group. Among them, 45 percent say it is more important for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats. That view falls to 35 percent among those ages 30-49 and just 27 percent among those ages 50 and older.

But the poll, taken amid last week's revelations of the government tracking of phone calls and Internet activity, also found that just 12 percent of people ages 18-29 are following the story very closely, compared with a majority who aren't paying attention at all.

No matter what they tell pollsters, young people are used to sharing private information online. Still, it may not be the case that they're so markedly different from those who came of age in the 20th century.

<snip>

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/06/10/190433719/when-it-comes-to-online-privacy-a-disconnect-for-the-young

[ram2008]

199. They are choosing what they want to share.

The problem is when things are shared/read by eyes they are not intended for. They do not want their personal pictures/emails/internet trail/private messages read by the public or by government officials without their approval.

[cali]

208. that just makes me laugh.

put out everything about yourself on the net and then complaining about privacy.

And I've been one of the people on DU who has posted most emphatically about the NSA and the exponential growth of the national security state and mass surveillance.

[OilemFirchen]

215. Just so you know...

We here at the NSA have listened to every phone call, read every email, and suffered through every Facebook posting of every young person in this country.

And the overwhelming majority love President Obama. They also hate face mullets, even if they have to sport one to get girls.

That's a fact.

[OilemFirchen]

206. It's a shame there's none of that going on here.

Why, it's been nearly a month and I've not heard a peep about the NSA.

It's eerie, I tell ya.

[Tarheel_Dem]

38. "Obama's Job Approval Easily Outpaces U.S. Satisfaction"

His 50% average job approval thus far in 2013 compares with 26% for satisfaction
http://www.gallup.com/poll/163139/obama-job-approval-easily-outpaces-satisfaction.aspx

He's Teflon, I tells ya!

[Cha]

45. Ignorant Cheap Pot Shot Proof!

[freshwest]

203. What percentage of those use tweeter, facebook, put their life stories and faces out on youtube?

That's not a practical way to guard one's privacy. Anyone of any age knows that.

You can't sign onto to all of that and then truly the rules you agreed to, just like being at DU or getting a internet, cellphone or wireless provider and then cry foul when the agreements didn't guarantee privacy. And by nature of the technology, it's just about impossible, it's above law.

Information is given up to banks, landlords, insurers, DMV, voter registrations, credit cards and it's all shared. It's right there in the small print. The only way to be serious about having no one trace you is to do a John Connor.

Other than that, it's just libertarian 'liberty and freedom' talk and not credible, as its goals is to end laws and regulations in the first place. So one digs their own grave with that strategy. Especially with the libertarian brand, there is ceding of all that information directly to corporate and other sources with no law to stop any of it whatsoever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Hey, some of us are well pretty much your elders

and we don't take kindly to it either.

Though the OP has sort of a point... granted the OP would also call Wyden and Udal Libertarians. She has it half right... CIVIL libertarians... or Constitutionalists.

Did I mention Grayson on that list too?

The problem is that this OP has no clue, like a few of their friends, that Libertarianism goes way back in American history, and the word does not mean what she thinks it does.

[Galraedia]

34. You're right, I don't understand libertaranism...

but that's because I'm not high on whatever disillusion inducing drug it would take me understand it. It's fantasy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. when you throw populist Civil libertarians

into the same boat as Ron Paul, you are right, you don't understand it.

Suffice it to say... this strand of American history starts to show it's head with the Yeoman farmer and the New Canaan... as early as the 16th century. (It actually goes further back to at least Elizabethan England, but that is ugly nasty little history)

So you think Wyden and Udal, and yes Grayson, are Paul Bots? A simple yes or no will suffice.

[Galraedia]

81. Alan Grayson is not a libertarian.

Also, I don't give a sh*t for Wyden. And who the heck is Udal?

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Yes he is dear, a CIVIL Libertarian

and Udal is a Democrat and a sitting US Senator.

So you don't give a shit about a democrat with a small D... got it.

Are you a third way Democrat? I think you doth protest too much.

[limpyhobbler]

110. ^^^^^^ OMG what do you have against Ron Wyden?

[Galraedia]

122. Ron Wyden is nothing more than a Republican posing as a Democrat.

[quinnox]

125. you just showed you know ZERO about Ron Wyden

The ignorance is breath-taking.

[think]

131. My tolerance is growing thin for those who post very strong opinions on a factless basis

[think]

128. WTF?

[nadinbrzezinski]

150. GUFFAWS will break

I gotta say, you just showed a level of ignorance that is EPIC.

Keep digging please

[limpyhobbler]

157. Wait a sec... is this whole thread sarcasm? It might actually make sense that way.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

209. Clueless -

it ain't just a movie.

With that comment you have proven yourself to be so wildly and deeply uninformed that your opinion on the subject is utterly worthless.

[newthinking]

127. Respectfully, I would argue you don't understand traditional democratic values

I have been a Democrat probably longer than you may have been alive, and being a democrat was always about good government, and that includes a government that is accountable, trustworthy, and defends individual liberties.

In fact, I think you need to read up on what "Libertarians", as in Ron Paul Libertarians, believe. They believe in low taxes and almost no government, very different than those who fall more on the spectrum of concern over things like the NSA overreach and protection of civil liberties on this side.

Just because the term "Civil Liberties" shares a word with "Libertarians" does not mean they are the same.

[newthinking]

115. Civil Liberty has always been part of liberal / Progressive values

It is telling that some think that protecting civil liberties is somehow wrong just because some "libertarians" and Republicans may also believe in it.

Totalitarian societies have social programs. Often strong social programs. The Soviet union housed and employed all of it's people. So does North Korea.

"Social programs" do not a Democrat make. Democrats believe not only in a that but also in a Just, transparent, responsive, and accountable government.

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. Exactly

:thumsup:

[Tarheel_Dem]

5. IBTL.

[Galraedia]

8. Injustice By The Law?

[Tarheel_Dem]

10. !!!

Good one!

[Scurrilous]

9. Maybe their websites are down.

Or choked with tumbleweeds.

So they come here where there's more traffic and @#$% with us.

Yay, us!

[Galraedia]

16. Found this on the Paulbot's website:

Take a look on Democratic Underground

They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.

If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.

Lots of traffic on DU.

It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored.

http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138

[Scurrilous]

18. LOL

[baldguy]

25. But if you point out a poster is a Paulbot, your post gets locked.

[flamingdem]

26. ^^ yep

[NightWatcher]

27. Nice, we have people doing Paul's work

In the good ol days this would not have been the way.

[Bobbie Jo]

37. And they're welcomed with open arms.

[Summer Hathaway]

101. Yes, they are.

The anti-Obama crowd actually believe that any enemy of the President is their friend, and that includes Paulbots and RW trolls.

[msanthrope]

179. You Better Believe It! nt

[Number23]

198. And meanwhile actual Democrats leave in disgust by the droves, including lots of black posters

and other minorities.

[Kolesar]

154. [SECRET VIDEO FOOTAGE!] Trucker CONFIRMS underground cites for the elite!

That's what I got when I searched the Paul site on the term "underground"

[Galraedia]

156. Are they planning on going underground?

It would be nice if they would stay there.

[Kolesar]

161. It's good to be an elitist!

Taking advantage of the morlocks and aspiring suffering job creators.

[Scurrilous]

170. And here I thought the elite preferred penthouses.

Nope, they want to live in the basement!

Where the Paulbots live.

[Number23]

191. I'm shocked!1 SHOCKED, I tells ya!1one

[Maximumnegro]

12. HA, an observation is now whining

that says everything.

Would it be considered whining if it charge the opposite? Nope.

[Cha]

14. Maybe 'cause their leader's in Russia now?

INBTL

[Scurrilous]

21. More like their centerfold.

[Cha]

32. Got it.

[flamingdem]

87. +1 he's Haut for a Paultbot

[pnwmom]

17. I asked a young libertarian recently how he felt about Paul's recent comments

that overturning DOMA could lead to marriages with animals. He said that Paul was "just" trying to appeal to religious conservatives. Like that made it okay!

[baldguy]

19. It's become acceptable to accuse a sitting Democratic President of being a murderous fascist.

And unacceptable to criticize that view & expose it's absurdity.

[Cha]

36. Which is too damn bad for those

who profess such unacceptability.

[whatchamacallit]

147. Did you have a problem accusing Bush?

I didn't.

[baldguy]

155. Are you under the impression that Obama and Bush have anything in common?

Other than the chair in the Oval Office, that is?

If so, then you should be here.

[whatchamacallit]

168. So your pants wetting over disrespecting sitting presidents

only extends to democrats?

[baldguy]

180. Do you drool at the chance to spread lies about Obama & carry water for the GOP?

Because that's what you're doing right now.

[whatchamacallit]

184. What lies?

What water?

[baldguy]

196. The lies are pretty much anything Snowden has said.

As for the water:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3115076

[whatchamacallit]

204. Well that's bullshit

but knock yourself out repeating it. As far as the link is concerned, I can't see what that has to do with me.

[baldguy]

220. Pretty much everything you've posted is echoed at that link.

It's not quite "great minds think alike" - nowhere near it actually - but it is an interesting suggestion
of where you're coming from.

[okaawhatever]

22. A few of the normal DU folks who are staunch free speech supporters and many

many trolls you are visiting for the purpose of rabble rousing.

[L0oniX]

28. Epic fail reframe. anti-government = paulbot

[Galraedia]

162. Epic fail. Absurd amount of over the top anti-government paranoia + stupidity = Paulbot

[L0oniX]

167. I'm sure the police, military, NSA, CIA, FBI, the SS and ...Agent Mike would agree.

[elfin]

31. Sneaker trolls from Ayn Rand "book" clubs. Eom

[whatchamacallit]

35. Name names or kindly

STFU!

[ucrdem]

41. This liberty-licious Ron Paul troll got 147 recs on one of several threads

before Skinner finally gave him the bum's rush:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=281180&sub=trans

[ucrdem]

68. 147 and counting:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&address=10023068154&info=1#recs

[burnodo]

102. You say "liberty-licious" like it's a bad thing

You don't like liberty?

[ucrdem]

108. Libertarianism is a very bad thing, yes

unless you're a billionaire. See Rand, Ayn, collected works.

[burnodo]

111. I asked about liberty, not libertarianism

did you purposefully avoid answering the question I gave you?

[ucrdem]

120. The OP asks about libertarianism. nt

[burnodo]

146. shallow evasion

[Squinch]

140. What, you don't like librarians? Or Librans? Or libidinous lipids? Answer! Quit ducking my

really, really clever question in which I try and trip you up on words that sound like other words.

[Cha]

114. For being a "Conspiracy crap, obama hater, troll." by Skinner! HA!

mahalo ucrdem!

[ucrdem]

142. That one deserves a medal.

mahalo Cha!

[Cha]

129. Oh, that asshole got his pizza delivered! Great news! Thanks, ucr.

TakeALeftTurn.. I knew he was junk but it's really nice to have it verified by Skinner.

[ucrdem]

47. Identical thread posted at Infowars and Ron Paul Liberty Forum

on the same day. 147 DU recs and counting, no lock, still going strong:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023068154#post97

[whatchamacallit]

57. You've been riding that corpse for days

Anything else or did you think one name was sufficient to roll out this steaming pile of flame bait?

[ucrdem]

61. I answered your question. You're welcome. nt

[whatchamacallit]

78. As I suspected

you're not on the level.

[ucrdem]

106. Links to identical Infowars and Ron Paul Liberty Forum threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3088002

[cherokeeprogressive]

92. ▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲▲

[whatchamacallit]

97. Is that supposed to be pointing at ucrdem

or me?

[cherokeeprogressive]

121. Big Ups for YOU.

The only person bold enough to name someone picked a DUer whose pizza was delivered the other day. Kinda cowardly.

It's always the same, someone lumps groups of DUers together in a less than complimentary way, but when they're called upon to say exactly who they're talking about, they slink off...

[whatchamacallit]

124. :)

[Galraedia]

39. Libertarian freedom:

[Tarheel_Dem]

44. !!!

I guess, in this case, a cartoon is worth a thousand words.

[bigwillq]

42. Links? Names?

Or do you just like wine?!

[ucrdem]

52. 58 recs for "Obama is a F*****G FRAUD" by a dearly departed Ron Paul Liberty Forum lunatic :

right here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&address=10023080227&info=1#recs

[bigwillq]

59. Ooh, let me go Rec it.

[ucrdem]

74. Make that 59.

[bigwillq]

76. I must be a Libertarian then.

[Tarheel_Dem]

88. I liked Skinner's reason for putting that one away!

[ucrdem]

138. Classic!

[Bobbie Jo]

214. ^^^THIS^^^

Consigned X 58.

[GeorgeGist]

46. You haven't been here long enough ...

to remember BushCo.

[Zorra]

50. Clue: Believing that we have the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness

does not make us libertarians.

Just for your information, that inalienable rights thing is a line from a historical document know as the Declaration of Independence, which is a document primarily concerned with freedom, rights and liberty, and was in large part written by Thomas Jefferson, who is universally considered to be the founder of the Democratic Party.

I strongly suggest that if you want to learn what it means to be a Democrat that you study the Declaration of Independence, as well as the writings of Jefferson. I assume you don't know these things, or you would not have posted such a clueless OP. You see, Democrats, unlike republicans, believe in collective and personal liberty. There is another Party, known as the Third Way, who claim to be Democrats, but, like republicans, do not believe
in the aforementioned inalienable rights, or in individual and collective liberty for all people.

You seem to be coming from a Third Way perspective, because you are clearly confusing Democrats with Libertarians.

I had to assume from your OP that you are unaware of this vital historical information. I have noticed that many conservatives seem to be lacking an education in history these days.

[quinnox]

58. wow

That was an amazing post!

[woo me with science]

65. Excellent slapdown

of a juvenile and ignorant post.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

70. Go figure --

all these years I was under the impression that I was a liberal Democrat since I was 8 years old and watched my first Party conventions.

The idea that opposing unwarranted government surveillance is strictly for folks other than Democrats -- well, I guess we've been set right.

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Point of order

and I embrace it fully. It makes you a CIVIL libertarian and a Constitutionalist.

The fact the OP has no fricking clue that this includes Wyden and Udal, for example (two sitting US Senators)... or for that matter Grayson (a US House Member) is not my, or your fault.

[Art_from_Ark]

83. Zing!

The mark of Zorra!

[graham4anything]

99. Jefferson said ALL MEN created equal. He left out 100% of every woman and minority.

and with the 2nd, all liberties are ended.

80-20 is coming.

and this week proved LBJ is the #1 president of all time.
LBJ got the civil rights acts passed 73-27
5 racist SCOTUS took them away

I will never stand with rand, in fact, I can't stand him.

[magellan]

112. Thank you. n/t

[Apophis]

160. You win the thread.

[quinnox]

166. Indeed, and I think her post should be copied and pasted

to future threads of this ilk as a standard reply!

[Apophis]

169. Indeed.

[L0oniX]

178. K & R ...should be its own op.

[sagat]

54. Midterms next year.

Which is why they're spamming this "Dems are evil, too" BS.

[Galraedia]

55. What's wrong with libertarianism? (Photo)

[Cha]

66. Yeah, they're only sucking the life out of America! go china go russia..

fucking libertarians.

[flamingdem]

85. ^^^ these f*uckers

grrr

[Recursion]

56. Gotta depress the '14 turnout somehow... (nt)

[Douglas Carpenter]

60. oh bull shit!! I have served on MIRT and ALL libertarians and conspiracy nuts are banned immediately

That is the policy. And it is being aggressively enforced every single day

[Logical]

63. Ahhhh.....another whiner about the DU. In other words we disagree with your stance. n-t

[kestrel91316]

67. All on the Koch payroll, I'm assuming, just like the RWers.

[rhett o rick]

69. What's the purpose of this thread? I would like the hosts to consider that

this is not appropriate for GD.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. It is meta

but you know what they say about pigs... right? I am sure the OP has not read Animal Farm either.

[rhett o rick]

91. Meta is correct. nm

[Apophis]

72. So now being against the government spying on its citizens makes one a libertarian?

[zeeland]

73. You don't have to be a

Libertarian to disagree with many of the policies coming from
The Obama Administration, many originating from the bush/Cheney
years and now continued and perfected by Obama and Holder.

I've been a Democrat my entire life, raised by Democratic women in
Chicago. I loved Obama and did everything possible to see him elected
twice. While his accomplishments are many, there is deep concern among
many Democrats over issues I for one hold sacred regarding freedom of
the press, freedom to congregate and protest, our constitutional rights
to privacy. My concern for the party is the only thing holding me back
from a show of public outrage. Many of us are showing great restraint
but our core values will not tolerate much more.

[still_one]

77. How do you know that?

[ucrdem]

90. It's kind of hard to miss.

Ron Paul testimonial thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3079051

[Douglas Carpenter]

94. with a Bobby Kennedy avatar.. Give me a break! It is DU policy ban all libertarians immediately

and it is strictly enforced and everyone knows it.

[ucrdem]

96. Can you give me a link to that ban? Thanks. nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

113. read the DU TOS. Ask anyone on MIRT

[ucrdem]

118. DU TOS doesn't mention libert(arian)(ism) anywhere and I've seen no evidence

of such any such a ban. TOS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

Doesn't sound like a bad idea, though.

[Douglas Carpenter]

123. the MIRT team bans them immediately -ask anyone one MIRT - if they slip through Skinner or EarlG

gets them. That is how it has been for a long time.

[ucrdem]

130. Can you post or link to any evidence of this MIRTpolicy?

Skinner nuked the one I mentioned above, not MIRT.

[Douglas Carpenter]

137. MIRT records are kept separate on a forum only accessible to MIRT members

but -ask any MIRT member - past or present and they will tell you the same that any Pauliite or libertarians or advocates for third parties of any sort are banned immediately

[ucrdem]

139. That would surprise me. nt

[Ms. Toad]

164. Then volunteer for MIRT and find out.

There are days when 30-50% of new signups are PPRd. You don't know about it because most of them are PPRd with only a few posts under their belt and you never see them - and some are gone because they are identified even before their first post.

Frankly - a lot of my time on MIRT was spent reminding people with itchy PPR fingers that we operated by consensus and that meant they need to wait for other MIRT members to check in rather than just doing a PPR on sight.

Here's the TOS (MIRT considers anyone in any of these groups to be malicious intruders): Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

Just because you disagree with people about clandestine surveillance by the government (whether it happens, the extent to which it happens, whether it is good, whether it is constitutional, etc.) doesn't make people on the opposite side of the debate libertarians.

[ucrdem]

174. Happy to. I just checked and I gather the next invitation comes in July.

Barring unforeseen circumstances I'll be very glad to volunteer.

[Ms. Toad]

187. Sounds about right

It is quite an eye opener - I'm actually kind of surprised that we ever integrate any new members. The inclination to PPR anyone new who isn't right down the middle of DU is pretty strong.

[ucrdem]

197. Thanks for the tips.

I think generally I'm on the side of "let's wait and see where this one goes" but everyone has their own zero-tolerance issues I suppose so the consensus approach seems like a good one.

[Bobbie Jo]

133. I think

It's covered....

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).
Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

[ucrdem]

135. Ah. Thanks Bobbie Jo!

That will come in handy.

[Cha]

141. yeah, they're not allowed on DU for a good reason. They're fucking

incompetent. Just Too bad their HOOHA is in Russia now and has so many "ron paul is dreamy" lovers on DU.

thanks Bobbie Jo

[ucrdem]

144. ^ ^ for the win

" their HOOHA is in Russia"

[Tarheel_Dem]

145. "Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers", How did I miss that part of TOS?

Thanks BJ.

[Kolesar]

148. "hard-line communists" would have excluded Alexandr Solzhenitsyn

...had he not died six years ago.

[Douglas Carpenter]

119. say, aren't you the one claims that Amnesty Internatinal is a right-wing Republican group who should

have their tax exempt status pulled?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3099947

[ucrdem]

126. I believe JackRiddler posted that thread, a dupe incidentally. nt

[Dragonfli]

205. Yes he was, and he has become quite the expert on how many long time DUers

Are "sleeper" Paulites here to destroy the POTUS and undermine the entire Democratic party.

He must be far smarter than the rest of us to become an expert on all these racist trolls. Some of us have known these Paul agents for ten years and yet been fooled the whole time. The kid's a fucking prodigy! just born here a member this year and already an expert on just about everything DU and on who should or should not post here. He has uncovered in that short time a very large network of terrorist Paulite cells that appear to be coordinated and mostly racist.

Is there a DU medal for such outstanding brilliance?
I nominate him for it if there is (I should just ask him, he is the DU expert ).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

89. You're confusing "Libertarians" with Civil Libertarians.

You know, think hard, people who believe in Civil Liberties like privacy and the 4th Amendment.

[woo me with science]

185. +1 Deliberately so, it seems.

The choices here are either craven disingenuousness or idiocy.

[limpyhobbler]

98. I believe in liberty, equality and a right to privacy. I don't care how you label that.

PS don't forget to vote.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023112003

[TransitJohn]

109. Want some cheese?

n/t

[fascisthunter]

134. Awesome!

[fascisthunter]

132. OH NO! Now we are being lumped in with Paul Rand

I guess we better shut up folks... don't want to be ostracized by the preppy kids in highschool!

[demmiblue]

136. What's with all the shit-stirrers is the better question. n/t

[frylock]

143. what's with all the dumbfuckery on DU?

for junior high-level bullshit.

[ucrdem]

149. .

[Kolesar]

165. He's still working on Readers Digest: “Towards more picturesque speech" eom

[freshwest]

151. One word per buck to promote the ratfuck, means the Koch Brothers win!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023065177#post237

[backscatter712]

158. What's the matter: Calling DUers racists backfire on you?

[Galraedia]

163. When have I ever called DUers racist?

[whatchamacallit]

171. Apparently the hosts think this OP is just dandy

A fine representation of quality DU discourse...

[hrmjustin]

172. It is being debated.

[whatchamacallit]

175. Ah...

Thanks for hipping me. I probably just extended it's life with my snark. Sorry hosts lol.

[hrmjustin]

181. Don't worry they will live but it may be a few more hours before enough of the gd hosts

chime in before they come to a decision.

[hrmjustin]

195. I should let you know that while this Thread had a large number of SOP alerts, the hosts

might leave it in the end because there are so many responses.

[whatchamacallit]

200. That's fine, the OP mostly got his

ass handed to him.

[hrmjustin]

202. Well it was a rude OP.

I don't like the government spying on me so I am a libertarian. Does not make sense.

[ucrdem]

188. I've seen worse. Much worse. nt

[cali]

173. oh for the love of decency.

accuse people like me and you're accusing people like my Senators Pat Leahy and Bernie Sanders. You're accusing people like Binney and Drake.

Just invaded garbage? I've been here for a decade and so have many of the folks concerned about the ever expanding national security state. You've been here since 2011.

Your post makes me want to vomit in your general direction.

[Harmony Blue]

176. I hope this thread stays up

and serves as a reminder that DU is a wide spectrum of the left represented here.

[ucrdem]

183. Left and right, as it appears.

Very far right.

[Harmony Blue]

201. Just because I believe strongly in the constitution

it doesn't mean I am far right. Civil liberties is one of the cornerstones of the Democratic party. Always has been, and always will be. If you don't like it tough.

[ucrdem]

211. Fine, but appealing to the Constitution is an old GOP campaign trick

going back at least to when Upton Sinclair ran for California governor in 1934. Probably further. It's like appealing to "scripture" in the sense that "the Constitution" has become a short hand term for sundry RW memes.

[RandiFan1290]

186.

[Cha]

190. This is a legitimate question, Galraedia.. Libertarians are not welcome on DU but

of course, they're trying to sneak in. Until they get banned, that is.

Thanks for asking and exposing their presence.

[Number23]

193. I've been here five years and have never understood the wailing, screaming, gnashing

over every step this President takes until I saw your post upthread showing Ron Paul's web site encourages his supporters to join DU.

You struck gold. Because that one link explains 99% of the crap that I've seen in this forum better than anything else. DAMN.

[graham4anything]

213. Plus a million.

Ron and Rand Paul were very happy yesterday with the court ruling on the voting rights
and Ron and Rand were fuming mad over DOMA.

Exact opposite of what should be.

[Cali_Democrat]

194. LOL. This thread was like flypaper to the Paulbot libertarians

[whatchamacallit]

207. Guess that would include you

Something you care to admit?

[think]

210. Yes, the thread starter cleary made this case by claiming Senator Wyden is a

Republican posing as a Democrat....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023114963#post122

[Number23]

212. Yep. Same lame ass names. Same even lamer insults (THIRD WAY!! Rawwk!! THIRD WAY!!))

So much anxiety, so much fear, so much cluelessness over a DEMOCRATIC organization that I only learned about a few weeks ago. These people shit themselves over self-professed DEMOCRATS more than Republicans. Kind of blows your mind, huh??

[SidDithers]

216. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Iliyah]

219. As long as I have my privacy

fuck civil liberties.