I don't know what to make about this comment about face masks and COVID-19.

[pnwmom]

Yes, I know they are worried about shortages, and I know some people can mis-use them in ways that put them at greater risk. But it's hard to believe there is zero benefit to wearing them.

And then I read this:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-handle-air-travel-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak-11580828905

“We do not currently recommend the use of face masks for the general American public,” Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said Friday during a telephone news conference. “This virus is not spreading in your communities.”


What about those of us who live in communities where it IS spreading? Where multiple employers have shut down, where 10 people (we know of) have died, and where they're telling all people over age 60 to stay home? Like in King County, Washington?

Are face masks useless for us, too, even though the virus IS spreading here?

[evertonfc]

1. They look ridiculous

I refuse to add such a silly item to my wardrobe.

[pnwmom]

2. Do you live in Kirkland, WA? Is your county health department telling everyone to STAY HOME

if they're over 60, pregnant, have asthma, diabetes, or other health conditions?

My friend had her workplace suddenly shut down yesterday with no explanation to the hundreds of employees. Everyone who can is now working from home till at least the end of the month. And yet, there is the Trump administration telling us the virus isn't spreading.

Maybe tell that to the health department then.

[RockRaven]

3. Well, it's not a foregone conclusion that the facemasks are of zero benefit -- it could be negative.

The line of reasoning goes like this: the general public is untrained in how to use facemasks vis-a-vis droplet precautions, and inexperienced in the same; therefore they mostly will not have properly fitted masks (even if they have the right kind of mask -- which most will not anyhow) and they will also fiddle with them all the time; this increases the amount of touching of the face/mouth/nose/eyes/hair/mask by hands which may have come into contact with surfaces contaminated by gravity- and diffusion-settled droplets thereby transferring the infection quicker even than the inhaling of still-airborne droplets (in the unlikely event that you encounter any).

I'm not interesting in a knock-down brawl over defending this argument, mostly because empirical data on this topic is, AFAIK, not available for these particular characteristics of this particular virus. Rather, I'm just pointing out that some legitimate professionals are going beyond merely saying masks are useless, but that they are possibly worse than useless (for the general public and at this time).

[mr_lebowski]

4. Probably the most useful scenario is if you wear one when you HAVE it already (nt)

[scarletwoman]

5. Bingo! If you are already infected, wearing a face mask will protect OTHERS. (nt)

[pnwmom]

7. What about people over 60 or pregnant who have been urged by the health department

to stay home -- for their own safety -- but sometimes must leave? And can't avoid a crowd in their particular situation?

And why is a Trump health person telling us that masks aren't necessary because the virus isn't spreading in our communities -- but we know the virus IS spreading here?

[scarletwoman]

9. Post #3 has the information I've seen most often. But just do what makes you feel comfortable.

If you're out in public, carrying hand sanitizer and washing your hands vigorously and often is of paramount importance, mask or no mask, imho.

[mr_lebowski]

10. The second part is silly of them to say in that generic fashion of course ...

But there's scant evidence that masks not designed specifically for the purpose of avoiding contamination ... and being used by trained people ... are of any help ... outside of perhaps being helpful in keeping you from inadvertently touching your mouth and nose.

But even then if you end up messing with it, adjusting it, etc ... you can get the virus on the outside of the mask and many masks are designed for dust, not microscopic viruses, so you might make the situation worse by wearing a mask is the way I've heard it explained.

[pat_k]

14. RockRaven makes good points...

... and describes reasons a mask could actually put you at greater risk.

I live in Seattle, am 60, and am on medication for Rheumatoid Arthritis that can suppress the immune system. I live with my 83 yo mom, so it's really important for me to avoid contracting any kind of flu or respiratory illness so I don't put her at risk.

When out and about, I try to keep about six feet away from others whenever I can. When that's not possible -- in a line or at a counter -- I still try to put a little more distance than might be considered normal and avoid touching surfaces.

Most stores have restrooms where you can stop to wash your hands before leaving. I've considered putting on disposable gloves on my way into stores if I'll be handling things (picking avocados, or whatever), and then tossing them on the way out. Haven't done it yet, but it crosses my mind. Don't know if gloves would really be much help, but when I have disposable gloves on to protect my hands from chemicals, they also serve as a reminder not to touch my face.

[pnwmom]

15. I have to go to a govt. office that will be completely jammed -- I know because I was stuck there

for 3 hours last week -- and everyone will be sitting shoulder to shoulder, except for kids, who will be running around. (I don't blame them for being kids, just trying to describe the situation.)

No opportunity for social distancing.

[pat_k]

8. Reasoning sounds solid to me.

I would think it could also give an at risk person a false sense of security that they are protected when in public -- they might feel it's safe to go into busy public spaces they would be better off avoiding if at all possible.

[pnwmom]

11. But sometimes you can't avoid -- no matter what -- going out in public.

My husband has a medical appointment at UW hospital next week. He can't avoid that.

And the next week, I have an appointment with a government office. They won't let me do it online or on the phone -- my only choice is to go in person, and I'm dreading it. The waiting room will be packed and I'll be stuck there for as long as it takes.

Meanwhile, my own health dept. has publicly announced that everyone older or with various health conditions should stay home unless we must go out. It's pretty scary.

[pat_k]

16. A few things about my situation above...

...in this post: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213049732#post14

If it makes you feel more comfortable, wear a mask. Research to make sure you get one that is effective and make sure you are clear about how to use it to avoid pitfalls RockRaven noted.

I'm not naturally a "germaphobe," but since I moved in with 83 yo mom, I've learned to act a bit like a germaphobe. I want to do all I can to avoid bringing anything home that could put her at risk -- much less COVID 19.

I noted some of the things I regularly do in the referenced post. All I would add is that I'm generally more paranoid about my hands than anything else. At home I regularly wipe down light switches, door knobs, fridge door, door frames that tend to get touched, etc.

As far as waiting rooms, there is almost always somewhere you can keep about 6 feet from others, even if it's along the wall away from any seating. If that's not possible, no big deal... just keep distance when possible. Lines can be tricky. It's easy to leave some extra space ahead of you (although you may get looks like "why aren't you moving up?" ). If I feel like someone is crowding me from behind -- or hear them sniffling or something -- I leave the line, go to the end, or pick another line.

At the hospital, I take note of any restrooms and wash hands on the way in and out. I trust hand washing more than those sanitizer stations.

I'm sure this all sounds silly to most people, but these are just habits I've developed over time and don't really think about.

[pnwmom]

17. Honestly, there is no place in this waiting room. We came and left two other times because

it was so incredibly crowded -- so I thought maybe if we came at a different time of the day it would be better. It never was. And the staff confirmed that it is always like that. I asked them if they were short-staffed and she said yes -- Trump has been cutting staff to the office every year.

So then I went online to look at outlying towns, because it would have been better to drive a couple hours than to sit or stand in the waiting room for even longer. They've closed those smaller town offices altogether!

[pat_k]

19. Make America great indeed...

He has successfully destroyed the ability of our government to carry out or enforce the laws already on the books -- he has done it by every means at his disposal.

The destruction that man has wrought on regulatory agencies and other executive branch functions will take a monumental effort to repair. Beginning with purging his cronies and bringing back the capable career, civil servants his cronies sidelined or removed.

And now you are stuck dealing with a piece of the fallout.

I'm so sorry you are being forced into this situation.

It won't help much, but keep in mind that in the current climate in the state, most of the other people there will be feeling a lot like you about their predicament, and will be taking similar precautions.

Go to the rest room and wash your hands as often as you want. If you need to page through a form, DO NOT wet your finger with your tongue to make it easier to page through. Bring your own pens/pencils. Keep your hands in your pockets to remind you not to touch your face, or your mask (if you opt to wear one). If you do opt to wear a mask, get an effective one, know how to use it, and toss it as you leave. In the unlikely event that you actually encountered airborne droplets with some type of virus, they could be on the surface.

Even in a crowded room, the likelihood of exposure to COVID 19 is still minuscule compared to the likelihood of exposure to seasonal flu or the common coronavirus that causes what we generally call "a cold." With some very basic precautions, you can avoid catching the far more prevalent illnesses. The same precautions protect you against COVID 19.

As I said, none of this probably helps much in terms of giving you peace of mind, but it's all I've got.

The only other thing I can think of is to call the coronavirus hotlline at 800-525-0127, tell them your predicament and your concerns, and find out if there is some way you can have the requirement deferred to a later date though a doctor's order or something.

Long shot. They probably won't have a clue, but it can't hurt to try.

[pnwmom]

20. Thanks, a lot of this is good advice. But my risk of flu is as low as I can make it by always

getting flu shots. And I've had multiple pneumonia vaccines, too. But I've had asthma all my life and I've always been susceptible to respiratory illness.

I'm going to be filing a report with my Senator tomorrow, who has shown an interest in the coronavirus situation. I plan to be the squeaky wheel. This office is very likely, sooner or later, to be connected with an outbreak, and they could be doing things right this minute to make it better. Like not making people wait three hours to talk to two separate staffers to FINALLY, at the very end, walk out with an APPOINTMENT to have a "interview" three weeks later. That's ALL our 3 hours of waiting accomplished. Why couldn't I have made an appointment over the phone or online? No reason that I could tell.

[pat_k]

21. I wish..

... the flu vaccine were effective against all the stuff out there, but it is not (certainly not much help with H3N2).

Since you are susceptible to respiratory illness, I'm sure you are well aware, but there are more viral respiratory pathogens than a lot of people realize, many of which "go around" every year... not just influenze, but RSV, Rhinoviruses ("a cold" ), HCoV-229E, HCoV-OC43, and other strains (illness often also called "a cold" ), BK virus, and so on.

The same precautions minimize the chances of contracting any of them when exposed. And those precautions apply to preventing COVID 19.

One thing I think we can say for sure about COVID 19 -- the incidence and chance of exposure at this point in the timeline is still tiny compared to the incidence and chance of exposure to some of the other pathogens "out there."

[pat_k]

22. P.S. I love people willing to be "squeaky wheels"...

.. that's what brings about change.

[dustyscamp]

6. I just use Buffs instead of medical masks

It's probably not as effective, but at least it helps ease my conscience knowing I have some protection. It also blocks small particles and can block uv radiation.

https://buffusa.com/shop-buff/men/multifunctional-headwear-category/coolnet-uv-plus-family.html

[OhioChick]

12. Probably because there's a shortage at hospitals for personnel n/t

[wiggs]

13. helps reduce contact between your hands and face. also keeps nasal system humid and

effective....I've heard. Especially useful on plane flights or other dry conditioned spaces.

I don't have one but if I were walking through an airport and flying for any length of time I would wear it. And IMO, if everyone were wearing masks (not possible) then people who are contagious but don't know it yet wouldn't be getting others sick, at least at the current rate.

[bamagal62]

18. It's not ridiculous.

It’s the reason Hong Kong has been able to contain this virus.