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Baitball Blogger

(46,703 posts)
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 09:46 AM Oct 2019

The way Trump is squawking about Hunter Biden, we may be witnessing

another case of defensive protectionism. That's how Republicans strategize. If there is an area where they are vulnerable, they will project it onto their opponent.

Maybe Trump is doing this to Biden because Trump's family members have crossed that line on several occasions? So Trump is trying to create a "both sides do it" false equivalence? One that will cement in the minds of his followers -- and that's all he needs.

So what family member is most vulnerable? After reading this DU thread, I am going to say Kushner. The thread discusses a potential quid pro quo with Saudi Arabia over the Khashoggi murder.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212544312

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The way Trump is squawking about Hunter Biden, we may be witnessing (Original Post) Baitball Blogger Oct 2019 OP
Ivanka just got 5 more True Blue American Oct 2019 #1
+1 Baitball Blogger Oct 2019 #6
I keep say the Democrats should put Ivanka under investigation. Hit Trump where it hurts. usaf-vet Oct 2019 #14
I Disagree RobinA Oct 2019 #16
Agree with you, leave Ivanka alone at this time Perseus Oct 2019 #20
She IS getting rich on her fathers coat tails. Trump keeps trying to find dirt on Joe Biden for..... usaf-vet Oct 2019 #29
A bribe is a bribe is a bribe empedocles Oct 2019 #28
This is about Joe Biden more than Hunter. This is about polls showing Joe Biden beating Trump highplainsdem Oct 2019 #2
Of course. Biden is a threat, which is why Trump is trying to diffuse his popularity. Baitball Blogger Oct 2019 #3
Of course, Trump is True Blue American Oct 2019 #9
And BTW, I' m sure Trump knows more about the energy business than anyone else... maddiemom Oct 2019 #15
I have to assume you are being sarcastic about the creature knowing anything, right? Perseus Oct 2019 #21
Right. I agree with the idea that this isn't about Hunter, though. maddiemom Oct 2019 #35
Hunter Biden should sue Trump for libel and slander because his intentions are clear uponit7771 Oct 2019 #4
And he hasn't been a public figure. mahina Oct 2019 #30
I would laugh so hard if China opted to instead release tons of dirt on the Trumps. tanyev Oct 2019 #5
Oh Nelly! So true. Baitball Blogger Oct 2019 #8
China already announced they were not ging to intefere True Blue American Oct 2019 #22
"Turd Blossom " California_Republic Oct 2019 #7
Karl Rove? FakeNoose Oct 2019 #36
Yup California_Republic Oct 2019 #37
After studying Trump's speeches... Newest Reality Oct 2019 #10
You described well how we got into this environment. Baitball Blogger Oct 2019 #12
I am going to add. Logic True Blue American Oct 2019 #25
+1 Baitball Blogger Oct 2019 #27
Good hunch! kentuck Oct 2019 #11
Assuming he actually cares about his children Nictuku Oct 2019 #13
Posted about another 'sweet deal" for Jared from S.A. earlier this week. sinkingfeeling Oct 2019 #17
Good read. Baitball Blogger Oct 2019 #19
This is also Reflexive Control WhiteTara Oct 2019 #18
Why does it seem like it only matters or sticks when it's a smear against a Democrat? Pepsidog Oct 2019 #23
I think it's because Dems don't like to play the smear game, so they Baitball Blogger Oct 2019 #26
Trump cares about Ivanka and Don Jr. Because of the brand. It seems. librechik Oct 2019 #24
Of course projection is part of it, but Trump also needs way more help to win this time Freethinker65 Oct 2019 #31
Good points! And maybe the crooked deal Kushner worked with Ilsa Oct 2019 #32
****THIS**** karynnj Oct 2019 #38
Where's the DOJ on this? nt Ilsa Oct 2019 #39
Kushner put in charge of WH impeachment strategy Generic Other Oct 2019 #40
FLAW: I don't think Trump would deliberately make himself impeachable for ANYONE Maru Kitteh Oct 2019 #33
Yes - he could never manage a hugely complex long con like that FakeNoose Oct 2019 #41
Bingo randr Oct 2019 #34

RobinA

(9,888 posts)
16. I Disagree
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 12:19 PM
Oct 2019

I don't think the country out there gives a flying crap about Ivanka's patents. Even your average Dem. Why should they? Nowhere near close enough to home.

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
20. Agree with you, leave Ivanka alone at this time
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 12:41 PM
Oct 2019

After the creature is in jail then all his kids should be investigated.

Also, if the creature had any sense he would understand that going after Biden's son opens the door for people to go after his kids.

One more thing, I hope people understand that Hunter Biden's life so far has had a lot of interesting turns, some of them not very good and maybe that is why the repubs feel they can find something shady about him if they continue to turn stones around him. And...I feel Biden should have had a better sense and advise his son to not take that job, he should have known it would come back to him.

When you are in politics and you are a Democrat, before you make a move it is required that you study your future action from every possible angle, and if there is an angle where republicans can/will come after you? then either make the required changes to close that angle, or don't do it. In the case of Hunter Biden taking that job should have studied much closer.

usaf-vet

(6,181 posts)
29. She IS getting rich on her fathers coat tails. Trump keeps trying to find dirt on Joe Biden for.....
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 01:25 PM
Oct 2019

helping his son. Why are the two cases different?

highplainsdem

(48,975 posts)
2. This is about Joe Biden more than Hunter. This is about polls showing Joe Biden beating Trump
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 09:54 AM
Oct 2019

by double digits.

This is about Trump and the RNC wanting to hurt the Democratic candidate they fear the most.

True Blue American

(17,984 posts)
9. Of course, Trump is
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 10:16 AM
Oct 2019

Trying to smear him.

Just got a clarification on Ukraine. They are going to investigate the company, not Hunter.

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
15. And BTW, I' m sure Trump knows more about the energy business than anyone else...
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 12:14 PM
Oct 2019

BUT, then he must know that many lawyers are officers or on the boards of energy companies. He complains that Hunter Biden knows nothing about the energy business because he's a lawyer. You don't have to be an engineer in an energy related field (which I'm sure Trumps all about, also) to be involved with that business. Donald, with HIS business brilliance, surely knows that major industries are more complicated than that.

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
21. I have to assume you are being sarcastic about the creature knowing anything, right?
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 12:44 PM
Oct 2019

It actually helps a lawyer to know the industry where he will be providing his services, that is why there are specialties in the law profession. Not sure to what capacity Hunter Biden was going to serve in that company, and maybe we should find out.

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
35. Right. I agree with the idea that this isn't about Hunter, though.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 03:16 PM
Oct 2019

I'd assume he and Joe are not really pillaging Ukraine through that company, as Trump is now claiming. BUT, it's a little reassuring to imagine that Trump cares about the natural resources there. Oh wait, could he be referring to pillaging monetary resources? Surely not.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
10. After studying Trump's speeches...
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 10:37 AM
Oct 2019

After some analysis of them, he, (as well as the GOP in general) relies heavily on utilizing fallacies over facts. In Trump's case, they can be delivered one after the other and in composed packages based on his habitual forms of distortion.

While you can overdo the analysis, Trump speaks in what I would call "anti-logic". While this is not such an uncommon, rhetorical and political strategy, in this case, it really emphasizes deflection from knowledge, supported facts, discovering the truth, etc. The reason this is crucial now is that we see that we are really getting diffused, (not just divided) and straying farther and farther away from any kind of cohesive, cultural engagement. The Internet has its value, but this is may be a result of its detrimental aspects.

Where is the fault, though, really here? I don't think it would be a form of "blaming the victim" if we contend that it is the capacity of the population to recognize the uses of fallacies, (as if second nature) and not accept them as beliefs or by way of emotional reactions that is a problem. Perhaps the overuse of them will be a schooling by way of repetition?

I wouldn't expect that everyone has to become a logician or philosopher in order to be invulnerable, but if our body politic were more focused on the process, (the how rather than merely what, where, when and why) of what is presented, then that would provide a shield or antidote to the various forms of manipulation, propaganda and chicanery that goes on. It would also force debate towards a more pragmatic focus on what is actually going on and what really needs to be done about it rather than all the subterfuge, drama and diversion that pollutes the political and social sphere.

That would also assist us finding our potential to find more unity and some form of common ground as a society because, well, that is what a society is. That abstraction represents the some total of its members and the cohesiveness of their relationships in general.

Yeah, I know, dream on. Each of us can step up to that in our own way and model it, though. Each step in that direction could matter. How else does one not fall for it all or react emotively which is like taking the bait and engaging in a rhetorical trap? When we understand that, we start to gather the conceptual tools to build a framework and we can also dig ourselves, collectively, out of this thickening morass of muck and mire; this widening whirlpool of confusion. We can wake up from the delusions and, knowing that is the start.

I think the future of the country depends on understanding that.

Baitball Blogger

(46,703 posts)
12. You described well how we got into this environment.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 10:50 AM
Oct 2019

It's a rabbit hole. His supporters will never listen to facts that might suggest they're wrong. Which gives them an altogether different lexicon. Anti-logic. I like it.

The first step we need to do is dry up their support system. We shouldn't be feeding the environments that allow them to continue this twisted logic. And where do you find much of this "conservative" think well? The military is one place. Our tax dollars pay for the kind of "obey and do not question" mentality that we're fighting against. They're taught that obedience is equal to patriotism.

There is also a huge patronage system that allows them to maintain a society parallel to the one that we live in. So, I suggest we expose this privileged world, where we can.

True Blue American

(17,984 posts)
25. I am going to add. Logic
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 12:56 PM
Oct 2019

And plain old common sense. If you do not have that, frget it.

Some of the most highly educated peoplein the world lack common sense. President Obama and Michelle had both. Hillary has it. So does Bill Clinton in most areas.

WhiteTara

(29,705 posts)
18. This is also Reflexive Control
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 12:34 PM
Oct 2019

Look at this - don't look at this
Most of the pressure had to do with Donbas and Russian troops. Look there

Baitball Blogger

(46,703 posts)
26. I think it's because Dems don't like to play the smear game, so they
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 12:57 PM
Oct 2019

are slow in responding in kind. And truthfully, it's not even "in kind" since there is plenty that the Trumps do in the open. No debate that what his kids are doing is deep and swampy.

librechik

(30,674 posts)
24. Trump cares about Ivanka and Don Jr. Because of the brand. It seems.
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 12:54 PM
Oct 2019

The Kush doesn't understand--he will be the sacrificial lamb, for many reasons. He knows all the secrets and has no alibi. Trump secretly hates Jews (just guessing) envies Kush Sr, doesn't want him having sex with his sweet baby Ivanka.

But I am just rambling. So much to suspect with this family .

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
32. Good points! And maybe the crooked deal Kushner worked with
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 01:40 PM
Oct 2019

Qatar to get their money for 666 Park Ave is tied in with the whole middle east dealings, too.

karynnj

(59,503 posts)
38. ****THIS****
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 03:58 PM
Oct 2019

Unlike anything Hunter did where there could be an appearance of conflict of interest to the Ukrainians, if Kushner really did push the embargo of Qatar when they were not giving him a loan ... and then helped end the embargo when they did help him refinance at very very favorable terms, he actually created US policy to get what he wanted. Adding the US has their largest base in qatar.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
40. Kushner put in charge of WH impeachment strategy
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 04:29 PM
Oct 2019

If he comes before Congress, first question from Schiff: Mr. Kushner, do you or have you ever had a security clearance?

Maru Kitteh

(28,340 posts)
33. FLAW: I don't think Trump would deliberately make himself impeachable for ANYONE
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 01:47 PM
Oct 2019

not even Princess Smiley Face.

Other flaw: He would have had to start planning this . . . how long ago? And kept to the plan? Coherently?

It would have to have required a too large number of people to be in on it: Pompeo, The Ghoul, a couple of ambassadors, a sizable number of staff, a number of career NSA officers, the Vice President, the Vice President's national security advisor, many of the Vice President's staff and probably dozens more I'm not thinking of this moment.

And, under this theory, it would have also required THE WHISTLEBLOWER to be in on it too, A very disciplined whistleblower, facing great peril and even death along with their family, following every letter of the law, hiring a top-notch attorney no less.

Do we really think Trump came up with (and executed successfully) this elaborate, convoluted scheme to get himself impeached, just to save Prince Charmin Ultra Soft?

Occam's razor folks!

What looks like a corrupt, stupid, self-obsessed, infantile little man scared shitless impulsively bubbling his way out of the only job that could keep him safe from jail IS in fact a corrupt, stupid, self-obsessed, infantile little man scared shitless impulsively bubbling his way out of the only job that could keep him safe from jail.

WYSIWYG.



FakeNoose

(32,634 posts)
41. Yes - he could never manage a hugely complex long con like that
Fri Oct 4, 2019, 04:37 PM
Oct 2019

He'd blow it with his first lie to the media, and every day after that.


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