Is Air America down in Chicago?

[LoZoccolo]

I tune in to 950 AM and it's in spanish. Did they shut down after only two weeks?

[Paulie]

1. Contractual problems with the owners

I was listening, and at 7am, there was about 4 minutes of dead air, then an announcer came on and said there was a contractual dispute with the owners and air america, and they went spanish.

[Edgewater_Joe]

3. Contractual problems?

I missed that part of the announcement.

Time to pelt Air America and get them to respond on the web site, I guess ...

[K8-EEE]

11. "Add An Inch To Your Penis" Commercial in Spanish?

WTF???

[TankerKC]

40. Wouldn't that be "Add An 2.54cm To Your Penis"?

They are metric, you know.

[RobertSeattle]

57. True story

I was in Honduras once and saw a sign, in English "No Smoking within 100 Feet", and in Spanish, "Nu Fumar a 100 Meters".

So you get to take your pick.

[damnraddem]

138. When I was in Panama, I'd ask for the ice cream 'pinta suave,' and ...

they'd ask what size pint.

But it was a Tastee Freeze, and a pint or 'pinta' is not a metric measure of volume.

[K8-EEE]

163. Nope, "Pulgada" = "Inch"

It's Spanish LANGUAGE radio, origating from here apparently, which is why they enlarge their penises in inches rather in meters.

I listened to the tearful goodbyes of the old DJs of the other station -- this is something different, like they are plugging into a feed some National show, not a new show....

Later on in the car I had 1580 on and it was JESUS stuff in Spanish!

[radwriter0555]

38. HELLO DRUDGE READERS, WELCOME TO THE REAL AMERICA!

we tell the truth here, so pull up a chair and read away...

Relax, enjoy, learn the truth about the idiots who run your gubment!

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xultar]

200. Call that guy Liu and tell him he can't eff with AAR!

NY - 212/966.1059
CA - 626/844-8882


CALL
CALL
CALL

Let them know that Content is more important than distributership. If he gets bombarded...and it makes the news....then maybe they can get picked up in more places!!!

[Edgewater_Joe]

2. Wouldn't It Be Nice If We Could Talk To Them?

No phone numbers, a generic form on the Air America web site, no responses to any e-mails -- I called the general phone line and it rang for about five minutes and cut off.

Very Bush-like.

Very angering and disappointing.

[Cocoa]

4. at least put something on the website

seems like a no-brainer to me.

[ronnykmarshall]

7. I smell a rat.

Something is VERY fishy about this.

[mee]

45. hmmm....

Has anyone check to see if Halliburton has any projects in Chicago or LA. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they did!

[mee]

88. Get the T-shirt

http://www.mercuryradioarts.com/site/product?pid=10026

[salin]

96. hehe from that site

self promo book for Glenn Beck (who is that?) who is touted (by self, probably) as "As one of the most listened to nationally syndicated radio talk-show hosts and the driving force behind the Rallies for America, Glenn Beck entertains, inspires, and informs millions of listeners." hehe - this "heartlander" doesn't share the one-dimensional and rather simplistic view of the world portrayed in his book blurb, nor has ever heard of him. Different views of wisdom here in the heartland. Absolutely find it hilarious when one tries to promote "heartland" (or "midwest") values as a monolith. Too funny.

[apnu]

189. I think your right...

Yeah I picked this early post for a good reason, take a look at the number of low posters here and the reporter.

The math on this is rather strange.

1. AAR is turned off in two locations

2. DU is suddenly flooded with freepers

3. DU (sorry admins) is strangely plagued with mysterious bandwidth issues.

Sounds fishy to me... One thing I do know... generally in law (and business) you can't just lock someone out of their office (or radio booth) without a good legal backing and for warning of the parties being "evicted" as it appears in this case.

I do believe this is a coordinated assault on our ability to speak out against the right wing loonies running this country into the ground.

Perhaps our message is being heard a bit too much?

[LoZoccolo]

190. Nah. Look at the time of my post.

The station had actually been off for a while according to some of the follow-up posts, and I really was just wondering why I woke up to a spanish-language broadcast this morning so I got on here. I was surprised that no one else posted about this, so I went ahead and posted it myself.

I do think it's weird that this post ended up on Drudge, but seeing as it was I believe the first one here on the topic, it may have been one of the first reports on the web that something was awry - I didn't even see anything on Take Back The Media when I looked. I don't think the network itself even announced anything until Franken was on - a few hours after this post. So really, I can't really think of anywhere else Drudge would link to that would carry this story as it happened. I certainly don't think the person at the office monitoring the feed would have called him up. If he really wanted to mess with us, he would have left the link to the post up all day. And I'm pretty sure the Drudge link was the culprit because I was following this thread and noticed right after someone mentioned it was on Drudge, DU got flooded. As a matter of fact, that first reply I put below where I post the link to the negative Drudge article, I wasn't sure got posted when I posted it because I hit the "Post Message" button and the response I got was an error.

[apnu]

192. you miss understand me

I read and thought about the "I smell a rat" thing all morning @ work, and now I'm finally home I checked in with this thread to see what happened. I actually had to hit the Alert button (first time I've had to do that here) this morning when the freepers flooded into this thread.

I picked an early post in a hooded attempt to show come credence to "I smell a rat"

I've never seen so many freepers in one thread on this board ever. (I've lurked here for the past 2 years) The reporter from the Tribune took the cake. Did you read the Trib brief? I don't think they bothered to get a decent comment from AAR, typical Trib goofiness.

I do honestly believe that there's something going on, the timing of DU's bandwidth problems, AAR being knocked off the air in the 2nd and 3rd markets, and freepers descending on the board (I've seen an unusual number of them in other threads)

I believe the RW nutters can't take it on the chin and they want us shut down. I'm reminded of the old school yard taunt "Don't dish it if you can't take it"

But, hey! Look on the bright side, you made Drudge! That's great! How many people can say that Drudge called attention to them! Good Job!

[LoZoccolo]

193. Well yeah, I think Drudge is the whole explanation.

A lot of people saw DU for the first time because of that, and that's why this post is a FReeper magnet. Also, I imagine a lot of journalists check Drudge too, which is probably why one showed up here. Plus the bandwidth problems, I think, could be easily verified just by looking at the logs if they keep track of referring links (as I've seen some servers do - it is part of the HTTP request). I don't think there's a need to believe there is any conspiracy because it seems pretty simple.

[apnu]

195. That has a high possibility of being true...

... but I have a bit of a tin-foil hat... can you blame me?

But DU's bandwidth problems have been ongoing this week, which pre-dates AAR being off, but coincides with the flood of freepers in other threads I've seen.

[K8-EEE]

12. Their Phone Must Be Ringing Off The Hook....

But they need to update the website NOW!

[TankerKC]

13. Ringing off the hook?

They'd need listeners for that to happen.

[Robbien]

49. The GOP has asked their followers to say that

Hoping to convince people AA is not popular. Wonder why you are spreading a GOP talking point.

[ronnykmarshall]

5. Same in LA!!

1580 is back to being a spanish station. What the hell is up?

[meti57b]

14. yes, down in Los Angeles. I just did a search to find this thread ......

to see if it was just me.

[KharmaTrain]

6. Ooops...I Had A Feeling

For those who saw my posts previously, the bill collector may have cometh.

Hopefully a temporary glitch, kids.

Yes, Spanish on 950 in Chicago, but I am able to hear their Real Audio feed just fine.

Damn...I have to drive around the city today!

[alcuno]

8. That's it?

Gone after two weeks? And one day live?

[pearl]

9. Keep this going

It sounds to me like George W knows the owners.
This is disgusting.

[qb]

10. It can't be the bill collector

They said they have enough $ to keep AA going for 2 years without ad revenue.

[JimT]

15. this blows!

I was planning on listening all day while in my car. Even after only two weeks I got used to having Air America around.

[Lindsey]

16. Who can we call? Who can we talk to?

n/t

[MetaTrope]

17. The purchase of Radio Unica assets by MultiCultural Radio Broadcasting

was secured by General Electric. Could that have anything to do with it?

[AnlaShok]

19. I used to work for GE.

They are a bunch of ultra-conservative incompetent idiots over there. They must survive by sheer size and political connections, because the management couldn't find their asses with both hands and a map.

[bobthedrummer]

31. Yes, GE culture is RW, always has been dominated by fascists imo

and experience with them as a vendor. They profit with war and the war president.
Post-War Contractors Ranked by Total Contract Value in Iraq and Afghanistan
http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/resources.aspx?act=t...

Campaign Contributions of Post-War Contractors
http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/resources.aspx?act=c...

[LoZoccolo]

22. 950 WNTD in Chicago is a Radio Unica station.

I think you're on to something there.

Here's an article from the pre-Air America days when the deals were being made - there's no definite date to the article as far as what I can see:

http://www.radioink.com/HeadlineEntry.asp?hid=118059

[Th1onein]

123. General Electric is a major munitions manufacturer

[AnlaShok]

18. I emailed them,

but no reply yet.

[apnu]

20. i emailed them too...

does anybody know the email addresses of the different shows?

[JimT]

21. Al Franken said...

Al just said on air that they are having problems in Chicago and L.A. but supplied no details.

[JimT]

23. duplicate post

n/t

[linazelle]

24. OMG...These people hate the truth---they will stop at nothing to avoid it

It is no accident these stations are down simultaneously. God help America.

[Freddie Stubbs]

60. Who do you suspect? Rove? Chaney? Ann Coulter?

It must be one of them.

[salin]

76. Nah... it's Ken Lay... he had to find something to keep himself busy

[Section One]

82. Oh, yes. Of course...

it had to be one of them. It couldn't possibly be true that the brains behind AA lacked the business acumen to put together a measely little network of 6 stations!

[salin]

86. not good at detecting

sarcasm, eh? As if in seriousness anyone would suspect someone like Ann Coulter would have the power to pull off a conspiratorial pulling off the airwaves.

[linazelle]

25. OMG...These people hate the truth---they will stop at anything to avoid it

It is no accident these stations are down simultaneously. God help America.

[linazelle]

26. OMG...These people hate the truth---they will do anything to avoid it

It is no accident these stations are down simultaneously. God help America.

[KharmaTrain]

27. Updatish...

Sounds like a bunch of contracts and bankruptcies all over the place. Chicago and LA are stations that are in bankruptcy by the former owners, Radio Unica, and supposedly they had no right to enter into an agreement with Air America to either rent or buy those facilities. Sounds like someone at AA needs to make some green materialize in someone's lawyer's office.

This is part of the problem of setting up a network of this type on such short notice...and with limited finances and resources. This wasn't going to happen overnight, and I can tell you, very well, how difficult the job they're trying to do is.

For those who have realaudio, I get a direct feed from here:

http://play.rbn.com/?url=airam/airam/live/live.rm

In today's corporate radio landscape, this venture faces overwhelming odds as control of most major radio signals are in the hands of a handful of companies...keeping property values very high. AA has done some things to hurt their cause as well, but overall has done very well to this point, now to see if this situation clears up.

I'd have more to say on the matter, but always best left for the company of select friends.

Cheers!

[Jim From Dallas]

41. Contracts? Bankruptcies?

Can you say "due dilligence"? Why didn't AA's lawyers have this problem solved before anyone opened the first microphone? Radio stations are bought, sold and reformatted every week in this country. The idea that a venture that claims to have sufficient capital to operate for years without additional revenue doesn't have sufficient resources to ensure they are heard in two of the largest markets (becuase they did business with bankrupts?!! What is this, dollar-store closeout broadcasting?) is infuriating. It's this kind of sloppiness that goes directly to the network's credibility. How is anyone supposed to take this seriously now?

I hope someone straightens this out and spends some of the money they say they have on attorneys that can exercise some real due dilligence going forward.

[LoZoccolo]

79. Shark sandwich.

How is anyone supposed to take this seriously now?

Easy. The hosts have almost nothing to do with the people handling getting the air time.

See?

[Jim From Dallas]

215. See?

I see there's still no signal into LA and Chicago. If the people handling the airwaves don't get their job done it doesn't matter what the hosts do because no one will hear them do it.

I'm a fan of the AA project and I feel like we've been let down because some lawyer somewhere wanted to do something the easy way and everything wasn't straight.

[LoZoccolo]

217. Nice save. Not.

The idea you were putting forward was supposed to be that the network was not credible because of this - presumably the content was not credible. You forget that we liberals are so smart that they call us "elitists", and can spot a tenuous connection like that pretty easily.

[wicket]

28. Drudge is linking to this thread

"CONFUSION AFTER 'AIR AMERICA' PULLED IN CHICAGO..."

[VolcanoJen]

55. Well, no wonder we have so many little visitors to this thread.

Doubt they could have found it without a heads-up from Drudge.

[Lex]

56. I thought I smelled something.

Yuck. To be linked by Drudge. Quick, I need a shower now.

[Jim Sagle]

29. Apparently the Spanish-language switch was made in Los Angeles as well.

But New York is still Air America. Here's a Table Talk link: http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?[e-mail]5vajfpcMG.0@.7...

[supernova]

30. Yes, Al just announced problems in Chicago

He didn't say specifically why. But did say, streaming is the way to go if you're in the affected audience.

I'm listening to WLIB in NYC. Allow popups if you have a blocker.

http://www.wlib.com/new_lib/indexf2.html

[hamsterhuey]

32. Since Drudge is linking to this thread

Might as well make this an anti Drudge thread:

From Sidney Blumenthal:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918...

The defamation, the media amplification through the conservative network, the British blowback was all well-rehearsed. Drudge initially gained his celebrity by libelling me on the day I began work in the Clinton White House in August 1997, reporting as fact that I was hiding police records of domestic violence. Within hours, conservative media were spreading the story like wildfire. Drudge admitted that Republican operatives had given him the story and that he had been used. It is his usual method.

"Screw journalism! The whole thing's a fraud anyway," Drudge once proclaimed. Though he calls himself an "information anarchist", he is anything but independent. He is a reliable submissive to his partisan "sources". One independent study of his "exclusive" stories determined that only one-third were true. His latest "intern" revelation is the sound of his master's voice at the beginning of a campaign Republicans fear losing.

[LoZoccolo]

33. Well HELLO DRUDGE and DRUDGE READERS!

DU has an article about Drudge from a few weeks back:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/03/24_...

[markus]

68. You mean there are actually people who can read who visit Drudge?

I thought those folks got it off the AM band and Fox "News".

[dencentral]

36. Drudge with a Grudge posts NO REAL CANADIAN NEWS SOURCES

I am fairly new to reading Drudge, referred by a friend calling it the "digest with the straight goods". Although the site hasn't exactly treated GWB with kid gloves, I very quickly noticed the dirt it seems to pick up on the Dems.

Further I couldn't help notice that The Drudge Report's extensive list of international news links includes only one laughable link from Canada: MuchMusic, our version of MTV. No CBC, no CTV, no CP, no Globe and Mail, no Maclean's – some of the world's most respected news organizations.

All this at a time when Americans have justifiably come to distrust the concentrated corporate mouthpieces that pass for "news", tuning in to "The National" on CBC and visiting Maclean's magazine <http://www.macleans.ca /> and the Globe and Mail newspaper online in droves <http://globeandmail.com />.

Is it possible that Matt Drudge doesn't want inquisitive Americans to stray too far from the Bush junta's Orwellian control?

[DBoon]

59. Welcome to DU!!

I'd include one of those smiley waving avatars if I could figure it out

[Memekiller]

42. ***WORLD EXCLUSIVE! DRUDGE A LYING SACK OF SHIT!***

***WORLD EXCLUSIVE! DRUDGE A LYING SACK OF SHIT... ***

Developing...



There’s an old saying, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” If that’s true, then the people who should be ashamed about the media frenzy that resulted from Matt Drudge’s cut and paste job of Clark’s prior testimony before the Armed Services Committee is the press. Drudge’s creative editing of transcripts is routine, but the media’s reporting of these hack jobs is also routine. Yet like the good little masochists they are, they keep begging for another flogging. “Thank you, daddy, may I please have another?”

[dmr]

145. Well, then, maybe Drudge can tell us this story about Bush*:

"The reason I hit it big is because I got lucky with the president," Drudge says. "But all that Lewinsky stuff, I was doing great stories on science, TV -- all of it. The Lewinsky stuff was getting big headlines, so that's how I became defined." He notes that he's never shied away from a good story on George W. Bush. "I had a great headline a year and a half ago -- Bush: Whites Only -- about a racial covenant on a house Bush had sold so no blacks could move into it."

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/2001-06-28/feature....

This is from a 5 page Miami New Times article, originally published June 28, 2001. The quote above is near the top of page 3.

So, Drudge, we're all ears.

[KharmaTrain]

34. Updatish...

Sounds like a bunch of contracts and bankruptcies all over the place. Chicago and LA are stations that are in bankruptcy by the former owners, Radio Unica, and supposedly they had no right to enter into an agreement with Air America to either rent or buy those facilities. Sounds like someone at AA needs to make some green materialize in someone's lawyer's office.

This is part of the problem of setting up a network of this type on such short notice...and with limited finances and resources. This wasn't going to happen overnight, and I can tell you, very well, how difficult the job they're trying to do is.

For those who have realaudio, I get a direct feed from here:

http://play.rbn.com/?url=airam/airam/live/live.rm

In today's corporate radio landscape, this venture faces overwhelming odds as control of most major radio signals are in the hands of a handful of companies...keeping property values very high. AA has done some things to hurt their cause as well, but overall has done very well to this point, now to see if this situation clears up.

I'd have more to say on the matter, but always best left for the company of select friends.

Cheers!

[SoCalDem]

173. I tried to get KBLA, but all I come up with is a Korean station

I have tried several times since the roll-out and have never once been able to get it..

[oceanpoetry]

179. SoCalDem

it isn't a very strong signal in OC - I have been able to get AAR when I am in my car (but not when I am at home in Newport Beach).

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[parkening]

37. Welcome to DU JB

Hope you are enjoying your membership! I suspect it will be very short-lived.

[mhr]

39. We Must Be Having An Impact Or You Would Not Feel The Need To Post

It's nice being a burr in your saddle.

Chaff Baby, Chaff!

[shivanet]

44. This is Kerry's chance to be inclusive.

Just like Fritz Mondale chose Geraldine Farraro in what was obviously a losing cause, this is John Karry's chance to choose a minority candidate for VP for what is again an obvious losing cause. We've got to keep the inclusivity upperhand.

As much as I hate dubya, I think that short of murdering someone in the Oval Office, he can't possibly screw the pooch because most Americans feel as if they'd be changing horses in mid-stream if he isn't re-elected. That being said, unless we want the first minority vice presidential candidate to be Condoleeza Rice in 2008, John Kerry needs to find a member of the minority community to be his running mate NOW. It was Nixon who created the EPA and got us out of Vietnam. The first black NSA advisor and the first black Secretary of State are Republicans. This trend has to stop.

[VolcanoJen]

51. What the hell are you talking about?

Did you click on the wrong thread, or are you just randomly spreading your musings, whereever you see fit?

[salin]

65. interesting set of nonsequitors

not related to the thread.

"Karry" needs to be the first to nominate a minority VEEP candidate BECAUSE the dems are going to lose anyway. (what the heck? suggesting that a qualified inclusive candidate should only be nominated when you deem it impossible for that person to actually take office? odd sorta logic there.)

nixon started the epa (wtheck does this have to do with the nonsequitor topic at hand).

Look how inclusive Bush is (yea bush!) But with a really odd statement that almost reads as if the appointments "this has to stop"

Not to mention the missing the Cabinet level and other high appointees of Clinton including in Agriculture, HUD to name a few areas...

Now this may just be a result of thinking while typing so the implications to the reader are not what is meant to be conveyed... but it is very interesting...

[bobbyboucher]

70. When the Repubes elect ONE congresperson who is black,

get back to me. Appointed Toms are just window dressing.

[smada]

74. Ahem, actually

They already did years ago. J.C. Watts.

[smada]

77. oops (ignore)

[Sandpiper]

128. 39 of the House Democrats are black

How many Repubs? Umm...ZERO.

[smada]

174. Yeah I know

But look at the title of the post: "When the Repubes elect ONE congresperson who is black"

They have. That's my only point.

[SidDithers]

43. Buh bye...nt

Sid

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sandpiper]

61. We just don't enjoy trolls

Whose only purpose is to come in and flame. Like yourself.

[LoZoccolo]

62. We do what our ideological leader Barbra Streisand tells us.

In your case, it is to delete your posts!

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

71. But of course!

Everything that we liberals do is a big plot to control people - haven't you read None Dare Call It Conspiracy?!

If tyranny comes, it won't be in the form of imperial foreign policy, the USA PATRIOT act, scripted press conferences, lies from the government, or fabricated external threats - no, it will come in the form of UNIVERSAL HEALTH COVERAGE!

[Chuckster]

191. "But of course!"

"If tyranny comes, .....it will come in the form of UNIVERSAL HEALTH COVERAGE!"

Well, If I am forced through involuntary taxation to pay for some idiot's triple bypass because they sat on their butt and lived on a diet of prime rib and eggs for forty years, I 'd call that "Tyranny" all right.

"Let them eat (carrot) cake!"

[Dark]

218. So would you rather your taxes go to fund:

-putting innocent children from Palestine/Nicaragua/Guatemala/(insert another 3rd world country recieving aid which goes to weapons to fight communism/terrorism) into hospitals when they're wounded by American weapons?

-paying for an extra vacation for some fat cat executives of Halliburton, which was found to have cheated the government out of a significant amount of money in contracts in Iraq?

-another bank account for the billionaire who just recieved an enormous tax break while millions of Americans don't even have any health coverage?

-paying for advertisements to discourage skyrocketing divorce rates? ("Oh, yeah, counseling failed, but the second I heard Dubya's sexy voice telling us we have to be together because it's moral, then I could forgive my hubby's gambling, alcohol, and drug addiction as well as his obsession with not talking to me. Thank you, Dumbyass.")

-paying to send another man to the moon and later to Mars when we have people in the United States whose family can't even afford to send them to college?

-paying to rebuild Iraq and then later paying extreme prices for oil that those Iraqis, who were formerly shooting at us, are now gouging us at the pump?

-paying for another set of stealth fighters and bombers which will sit in their hangars until the day they're scrapped or sold to some Montana reactionary militia from an Army surplus store who plan to use them to bomb abortion clinics, even though none of them can fly?

Yea, all those sound ALOT better than paying for a homeless child who needs a tumor removed. (Average age of homeless people: 9)

[LoZoccolo]

222. Think about what you just said.

Well, If I am forced through involuntary taxation to pay for some idiot's triple bypass because they sat on their butt and lived on a diet of prime rib and eggs for forty years, I 'd call that "Tyranny" all right.

Realize that if you have private health insurance, you're paying for the same kind of thing anyways. Insurance is just capitalism's answer to socialism to begin with! Except that you're also paying profit to a couple middlemen - which is cool with me if you want to do that; I don't think a universal coverage plan should get rid of having that choice if you want.

[GreenPartyVoter]

64. We're against censorship in general, but flaming is not allowed

It's a fine line to walk, and it's up to the mods to decide what posts stay or go. I don't envy them their job.

[Rationality]

220. Well, this is the DU

If you are here to pimp the Republicans, the Greens, or otherwise the anti-Dem, you're not going to last long here. Let's be honest.

[salin]

67. hint #1

read the Board rules before posting (private boards do often have rules)

hint #2 when trying to start discussions on a political board... phraseology that reads like "You People..." (the words "bringing people to their side" convey that tone)... generally do not engender one to the overall board - as it makes the comments seem suspect (of trolling behavior).

[BullwinkleJMoose]

72. Just visiting

"This is a "big tent" message board. We welcome a wide range of progressive opinion. You will likely encounter many points of view here that you disagree with."

"... if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals... you will likely be banned."

Not sure that the quotes above really jibe with the way most folks understand the term "big tent", but we'll see how it goes.

I doubt very much that AirAmerica is in trouble over funding. They've been cooking this up for too long to make completely goof this up over something as readily predictable as financing.

I think AirAmerica has ZERO chance of falling off the dial prior to the election. There is certainly enough interest and backing to prop it up till November. I just think the pacing is so incredibly similar to that of NPR that I need coffee to stay awake. I tried to listen objectively for about a week, but I really think they are going to crash. The pacing is abysmally slow, and having a co-host reeks of using training wheels.

That Randi Rhoades gal is like listening to fingernails on a chalkboard, but she does come across as the most professionally prepared. But FOUR hours? She'll burn up. That's just too much time for any human (liberal or conservative) to spin plates without blowing a gasket in short order.

This will be very interesting. I'm always suspicious of conspiracies so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the shut down in two major markets is not some kind of plot. Not the type DUer's might envision (with big bad corp conservatives behind the deed) but one by AirAmerica itself - Such a horrifically unfair shutting down of their big affiliates could rally liberals to a fever pitch or get AirAmerica some headlines.

BJM

[salin]

83. A couple of points

not all would see a conspiracy if things get a bit screwy, or after given time if it doesn't succeed everywhere. We have a lot of folks who own, and/manage businesses and nonprofits here and some common sense. Just tends to be easy these days in the era of extreme hardball politics ala Grover Norquist, Tom DeLay, and Karl Rove of not ever even so briefly going down that thought path. They have pulled some pretty stunning (and successful) power plays in recent years. But just briefly going there doesn't mean buying it.

Per the long term success - and comparisons to NPR... NPR often covers multiple venues in a single market - and is funded primarily by "customers" so the pacing must have some market. However I don't find the formats (or pacing) similar at all. It all depends on the listeners, their reactions, and whether folks on the left and in the middle are as prone to be regular listeners to a talk radio format at all. Very different audiences than those for Hannity, Ingrams and the like (who I find quite tedious to listen to as well.) Jury is out.

[bobbyboucher]

73. Pull your head out sonny boy,

can you hear yourself? Consider suicide.

[Robbien]

93. AA must be a real threat. Just look at all the disruption in this thread.

And it is puzzling why these new people would come to DU and try to convince us that AA is bad radio. Since that behavior makes no sense, the reason must be that AA is getting under their skin.

[mee]

104. Threat?

They'd have to be in my market for me to have an opinion on that. If they were, then as Hannity has said "Come on in, the water is fine!"

BTW, I have certainly enjoyed posting here. Thought you were interested in discussion of events. Why are new people so disrupting?

[Robbien]

130. We love discussion but don't want to waste time arguing BushCo propaganda

If you want to talk about how much you agree with Bush&Co, this is not the place for you. Here we listen to and discuss the truth, not argue the GOP propaganda.

[smada]

47. Air America press release

Air America has posted this press release on its website:

http://www.airamericaradio.com/main.cfm?actionId=global...

Statement Regarding WNTD in Chicago and KBLA in Los Angeles

Statement of Evan Cohen, Chairman of Air America Radio:

"Air America Radio is temporarily unable to be heard on WNTD in Chicago and KBLA in Los Angeles, but Chicago and Los Angeles listeners can still hear our broadcast on the web at airamericaradio.com and on XM Satellite Radio (channel 167).

"MultiCultural Radio Broadcasting's conduct in this matter has been disgraceful. To shut off a broadcast that listeners rely on without warning and in the middle of discussions is the height of irresponsibility and a slap in the face of the media industry. In addition, it is a clear violation of their contractual obligations, and we are seeking legal remedies against them in court."

[GreenPartyVoter]

52. WoW!

They would not have made this statement without having the law on their side, or they'd have risked slander. This is serious stuff!

[Lex]

58. I hope they spank that a$$

and it's been done before.

Franken spanked O'Really and Fox in court!

[ronnykmarshall]

69. I wonder when they'll be back on.

Sounds like it's gonna be ugly.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jasonjay]

53. don't visit drudge, he's only posted one side

FoShoFlash.com is covering this story, he has posted both sides of the dispute... He actully posted this story before drudge and seems to have a better handle on whats happening.

[GreenPartyVoter]

54. Laugh it up, funny boy.

Air America is still on the air in other places. And it's still planning on opening up new stations elsewhere. And the breach of contract by the stations in Chicago and L.A.. will be addressed.

[KamaAina]

66. Funny how this happens the day after Bush*'s speech

You just know AA is gonna be all over that like white on rice.

And the No. 2 and 3 cities just happen to go down. And GE, owner of three right-wing propaganda networks, just happens to be involved in the ownership situation of these two stations...

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[salin]

78. as opposed to O'Rielly paying stations to carry his radio show

when he kicked it off. But that wouldn't be right wing propoganda... now... would it?

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[salin]

87. gotcha

and I think that the business plan involved growing the market to the point of sustainability (which meant having the initial capital and a timeline and projections as to where the sustainability point is met.)

Why would you think that folks here are anticapitalist?

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[salin]

105. Am a dem - from a long line of dems

and we believe in capitalism. Do believe that completely unfettered capitalism can work counter to the principles and promise of capitalism (along the lines of Adam Smith - not a radical idea). But that is true of any institution that becomes either a) monopolistic (or works as a monopoly in the case of collusionary price fixing) or b) is able to wield protective powers and benefits from government for some companies at the expense of overall competition in the market place. Some of our current policies (not just Bush.. going back a ways) give uneven subsidies to the largest of businesses putting midsized and smaller business at a distinct - and manufactured - disadvantage. I think that is bad for capitalism, and counter to capitalism (where the market forces move progress forward.)

Broad brush generalizations are most often incorrect.

Also - the way "liberals" are portrayed on talk radio - is funny as hell - generally based on a series of misrepresentations - and given the most absurd "intentions" (the supposed "whys" of how liberals believe and are motivated.) If that has played into your characterization - I suggest you get out and talk to more liberals - and believe it or not... you will find a number of business owners/capitalists who are... *gasp* liberal.

[LoZoccolo]

107. Yes, we believe in capitalism. Matter fact I invest a bit on the side.

We do not believe in acting like "assholes" and "paranoid shitbricks" and "other fucks" that "get off on putting people down a hole", though.

[salin]

109. that last comment

sort of lost me... clarification?

[LoZoccolo]

117. Oh I wasn't talking about you, sorry.

I know a few people who I've thought of as "vanitycons", these people that are Republicans because they want to seem like they are one of the bad-asses on the top or something. The real aggressive capitalists that are flippant about things like social welfare and stuff, some of which like to pretend they're rich enough not to care about that kind of stuff. That's kind of what I'm talking about - contrasting liberal capitalists with those types.

[salin]

126. got it (wasn't sure of the phrasing)

I consider those the "I got mine" folks who tend to not see how systems have worked to help them (be it subsidized education, etc.) who feel that even the most destitute child has the same "ability" to "bootstrap up" and therefor needs no assistance whatsoever, and when that person is an adult if they haven't been successful - it is due to personal failure/weakness.

[joe_sixpack]

187. I'm looking for investment advice,...

on what "side" do you invest in?

[LoZoccolo]

188. Uh, this is like, a long-term investment in one company.

I don't try to make a living swing trading or anything.

[LoZoccolo]

89. Anti-capitalists?

I don't think you'll find that many on a liberal board.

[mac1000a]

85. And don't forget Dennis Miller

paying people to actually sit in his audience for his show. No one would actually put themselves through that torture unless they were appropriately awarded for it. Hey Mee, bet you anything that Air America will come out on top in this dispute. We actually love it because we love the truth and intelligence. Nobody has to pay us to sit there and listen.

[smada]

80. From Drudge

A Chicago source familiar with the situation said a Multicultural representative showed up at WNTD's offices Wednesday morning, kicked out Air America's lone staffer overseeing the network's feed to the station from New York, switched over to a Spanish-language feed, and changed the locks on the doors...

Air America filed a complaint Wednesday in New York state Supreme Court charging Multicultural with breaching their contract and seeking an injunction to force Multicultural to restore the Air America broadcast on both stations, the TRIBUNE has learned... Developing...

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Galley_Queen]

99. This Just In...

"Small time shake down" according to a guy on Randi Rhodes show. "Bounced checks not true." He is saying they sent checks on time and the checks were in his hand when they found out Mr. Lew (sp?) had stolen money from AA. AA said he can't cash the checks until he fesses up (this is in LA).

In Chicago, AA is saying that Arthur Lew (Multicultural Broadcasting) was charging two stations for the same signal. They are paid in full in Chicago but they want Lew to come clean.

So instead of Lew handling this, he simply shut down LA and Chicago.

AA is saying that their "litigators are filing paperwork as we speak. Making copies of every check...every contract...every single letter...it's all there."

AA is saying they will not be shaken down and they will not shut up.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

90. randy is addressing this now, i think.

[truebrit71]

92. Yes she is...

n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

97. LA station owner ripped off Air America

[LittleApple81]

94. They are explaining it now on Randi Rhodes (3:25 ET) n/t

[Stephanie]

95. They are announcing right now that the owner of the stations stole money

He stole money from Air America, so they told him he couldn't cash the checks. Arthu Lew - owner of multicultural broadcasting.

[Lex]

98. He was taking money from 2 companies for same air time?

Is that right?

[Dookus]

100. That's what the lawyer said

he said he's ready go to court right now with copies of all the checks.

Lew was double-dipping with another company.

[CynicalOne]

108. I believe AAR's version of events. No matter what.

I mean, sure we are only hearing AAR's version of events on
their station, but what the heck. Their lawyer simply MUST be
telling the truth, right? 

I want people to imagine the following:

General Electric sues XYZ corporation. NBC (owned by GE)
starts reporting on the suit, only interviews GE people and
attorneys and only speak about how XYZ is horrible and how GE
is saintly.

Now, you'd be screaming about "corporation media"
and "bias" and "not getting the whole
story". You'd also not believe a lick of it.

But AAR's version of events? Swallowed whole, no critical
thought, not analysis, no "Hey, maybe they are just
accentuating their own case and glossing over any part of
this that might make them look bad."

I'm not saying AAR's 100% full of it, I'm not saying this Leu
(sp?) guy is spotless and pure as snow. I am saying that it is
really ironic that people who listen to AAR claim the are sick
of monolithic, biased media giving only one side of the
story....and the proceed to listen one side of the story and
decided "This is fact, anything to the contrary being a
lie."

[salin]

111. or perhaps

some are reading it as an unfolding situation. First the one side (didn't pay), then the other (funny business), and then another piece of information that hasn't been placed into the context (per the stations being in bankruptcy... and til more confirms that item it seems to be in the "is it live/real or is it memorex" category.)

[CynicalOne]

115. Unfolding? Some have already decided

I've run through this thread. People aren't waiting for "unfolding". There's been numerous posts saying (in effect) AAR's version is right, what is Leu's motivation, why is he doing this, AAR's being screwed, etc.

They've already decided. THAT is the level of sheepishness I thought AAR was suppose to be against.

Lib sheep and con sheep have more in common than either would case to admit.

Now, that does not mean all libs are sheep or all cons are sheep, but there are those among both that are.

As I said: if GE owned NBC only broadcast GE's version of events, you wouldn't believe it, or much of it, and RIGHTLY SO.

AAR is only broadcasting AAR's version of events. I don't believe it, or much of it.

[salin]

124. I say unfolding - because per this thread the info

seemed to come chronologically - first from the Drudge site - with NOT the AAR perspective... and then with the AAR reports.

And as much as some jump to one side or the other (and not all have) there have been a number of visitors doing the exact opposite.

I think it is more likely a "snafu" with folks bickering and a heck of a lot of miscommunication. I also am guessing that it is rather complicated (as these situations often are). What is curious is that while you deride folks for taking the AAR side of it (and I reacted at the characterization as if ALL were doing so, which isn't the case)... is that you are automatically discounting the AAR description. Do you think it is incomplete? Do you think that the Drudge report is more accurate? Or that there is likely a third explanation?

[CynicalOne]

129. Never attribute to animosity what can be explained by stupidity

>> I think it is more likely a "snafu" with folks bickering and a heck of a lot of miscommunication.

Same here.

Someone once said "Never attribute to animosity what can be explained by stupidity". I think that is the case.

But I just find it telling that the some of the same people who complain about sheep cons (not all cons, sheep cons) believing EVERY word Rush says UNQUESTIONINGLY are now believing EVERY word AAR says UNQUESTIONINGLY.

[salin]

134. Great quote

imo that explains quite abit of some of the current admins policies.

I would attribute it more to a lack of information all together. A couple of blurbs out from both sources. Isn't much to go on. But these days we (as a general public) have become so binary and polarized in how things are interpreted that more and more folks (on both sides) get pulled into viewing things that way. The point of judgement, imo, is when there is more information - how it gets processed/analyzed/read.

[CynicalOne]

137. You believe the LAWYERS. The LAWYERS??!?!?!?

Let's face it. AAR's attorney coming out and saying AAR's innocent? That is as credible as your mother vouching for you. Of COURSE AAR's own lawyer will give it the best light.

Let me repeat: Liu may be scum. AAR may have screwed the pooch. Both may be true. I'm just kinda shocked at the irony here that we see people utterly convinced AAR must be right.

Sheep are sheep, whether they are lib or con.

[salin]

140. huh?

where did I say anything about lawyers or believing lawyers or lock stock and barrell believing AAR's side (or not). Friend - you just put a whole lot of words into my mouth - something I have worked hard not to do to you. I would appreciate some reciprocity on that front.

The only place on any of these threads I mention lawyers - has to do with both sides - and that it would appear that both sides would want a quick resolution ($$ reasons) and that sometimes bringing in the lawyers can quickly cut through the confusion and get to resolution - while also mentioning that this can backfire as sometimes it makes a contentious situation even more adversarial.

So with that being my only mention of lawyers... what the heck are you talking about?

[LoZoccolo]

149. Sheep are sheep?

And tombstones are tombstones!

[CynicalOne]

133. Automatically discounting AAR? Hardly.

>>> is that you are automatically discounting the AAR description.

Did I?

"I'm not saying AAR's 100% full of it, I'm not saying this Leu
(sp?) guy is spotless and pure as snow. "

I didn't discount AAR automatically. I'm saying I am waiting and that I am suspect of anyone tooting their own case on the air. Of COURSE they are ONLY going to give that which shows their side in the right.

[salin]

136. pulled that conclusion from this statement

AAR is only broadcasting AAR's version of events. I don't believe it, or much of it.

But rather than assuming you were going in the opposite direction - I asked which scenario you were leaning. Didn't want to jump further in putting words in your mouth. Turns out - we both view it the same (the snafu /complicated/needs sorting out explanation.)

But your words did indicate... dismissing it.

In my view of disputes - often each side initially actually views things through their lens as being correct (not necessarily being intentionally duplicitous) - with both sides having a completely different reality. Especially the more complex the dispute (and I would bet that the sale of these stations is exceptionally complex) it is the sorting out of the details before a joint reality/understanding is reached and resolved. Just how I read things, for what it is worth.

[theoceansnerves]

118. yeah.

nice try.

[sendero]

119. We don't have to imagine...

>>I want people to imagine the following:
>>
>>General Electric sues XYZ corporation. NBC (owned by GE)
>>starts reporting on the suit, only interviews GE people and
>>attorneys and only speak about how XYZ is horrible and how GE
>>is saintly.

We don't have to imagine it. It happens every day. Where the fuk have you been?

[CynicalOne]

122. Only listeing to AAR's side of it. ONLY.

>>We don't have to imagine it. It happens every day. Where the fuk >>have you been?

And I bet you hate when NBC does stories on GE and gives a heavy weighth to GE's side of events, right?

Now, why is it ok then to ONLY listen to AAR's side of events on its station and think you are getting the whole story?

[sendero]

156. What makes you think...

... I've reached any conclusion about this situation? Unlike stupid people, the kind that mostly populates this great country, I don't believe jack squat I read anywhere until I've read multiple corroborating reports from diverse sources.

I was merely making a point that we get lied (generally by omission) to every single day in every single way by our "free press".

[mac1000a]

120. Let's just say

we liberals have a long history of dealing with harassment like this, and this has all the earmarks of it. From Franken being sued by Fox News to Take Back the Media being sued by Michael Weiner (a.k.a. Savage) to Michael Moore's "Stupid White Men" almost not being published.

It doesn't strike me as very plausible that an upstart network in a controversial field with more than $30 million dollars in funds would be so careless as to bounce a check. The people running this operation know that the conservatives would looooovvveee to humiliate the network and shut it down, so they can all go, "Hahahahahahah!"

It is for these reasons that I tend to believe AAR version of events. When you really think about what Drudge is saying, AAR would have to be really stupid and careless to give their enemies such ammo. But they're not stupid. They know the law, and they know they have to be very careful in following the law because there's countless people out there waiting to crucify them.

This is just another example of a liberal voice being silenced. Well, just so you know, they're not going to win this time! We're going to get our voice out, whether you like it or not!

[CynicalOne]

125. Listening to one side only. And thats....ok

So any story about AAR being reported on AAR must be gospel. Their lawyer wouldn't only push his side, oh no.

Yet I am sure if ABC ran a story about a Disney suit, you'd immediately say "It is full of garbage". AND RIGHTLY SO.

Thus, you'll understand if I am more than a little cynical when AAR gives AAR's version of events on AAR.

[mac1000a]

135. In the words of Brit Hume

GET OVER IT. You keep putting words into our mouths about what we would automatically say in the event of "if this network did this or that network did that." I have a degree in journalism and have worked in media before. I know how it works. I base all my judgments on media on a case by case basis.

The reason why me and a lot of others on this board dismiss much of what is on corporate media is because it is easily dismiss able if you just spend the slightest bit of thought on it. By spending the slightest bit of this particular case, I find it easily dismiss able that the CEO's of Air America would be so stupid as to do what Drudge is saying they did. I base this more on the circumstances of the case rather than what Air America is saying.

I am a trained media analyst. I don't take anything for granted.

[Imperialism Inc.]

165. What "sides"? New facts , not new sides.

Or are you saying that you think AAR is lying about asking for an injunction? They are in fact doing so. That was not in the original story. Facts don't have sides.

[Stephanie]

101. Something like that. So they asked him to come clean, and he took them off

So he took Air America off the air on both stations. AA is asking for a temporary restraining order.

[Lex]

102. AirAmerica is applying for a Temporary Restraining Order.

The AAR guy says he has copies of all the checks, all the letters they've sent. The radio station was stealing from AAR.

IMHO, this is good free publicity for AAR and AAR will kick their ass.

Matt Drudge is a dolt.

[No2W2004]

103. here it is

AA Lawyer:

we have someone trying a to do a small time shakedown.....

bounced checks? Not true

we sent checks when they were supposed to

Authur lew(sp?) stole some money from AA...AA won't let him cash LA chex
(charged two companies for the same signal)

Chicago is paid up but lew(sp?) owns it as well (MultiCultural)

Thought they had negotiated a deal....didn't find out till this
morning that MC had took AA off the air

AA is filing suit agains MC showing that they have paid for temp. restraining order.

[Columbia]

106. Where's the motive?

Did some research on this guy (Arthur Liu) and he's been in the business for a long time and has no reason to pull a small-time scam like this that is seemingly so easily uncoverable. I think there's more to this story that both sides aren't telling.

[jasonjay]

110. new to his site but...

the guy over at http://www.foshoflash.com seems to be down the middle on all news stories so far... I've only been visiting his site for about 3-4 weeks but i was looking for a drudge alternative and i found it. He's not liberal site at all, but he isn't a right winger either, thats all i was looking for. I suggest you check it out.

[salin]

114. thanks

I saw you put that link up on the other thread - helped get to the two emerging sides more quickly.

Welcome to DU!

[salin]

112. Probably a bit of confusion

miscommunication and a lot of finger pointing to be worked through before the full story emerges.

[Columbia]

113. I think so too

[salin]

116. Funny but in some cases

the best thing to do is to get the lawyers involved as the sorting through can happen much more quickly (and it sounds as though for both parties resolving this is to their advantage.)

Of course other times the involvement of lawyers turns a contentious situation into something even more adversarial...

Hope this one gets sorted out and solved quickly.

[Edgewater_Joe]

127. You'd Think Liu Would Want To Wrap Things Up Quickly

Yesterday he was getting three payments for two stations -- he's now getting none for two and isn't likely to get stations that'll be that much better ratings wise, so why would he want nothing on the network?

What I don't get is why he'd do something so brazen as to change the locks on the doors at the two stations just so he'd get some more coin.

A shame it has to play out in public like this.

[salin]

132. I would think there is incentive to both sides to work this out quickly.

at least one item included information about the two stations being in bankruptcy... and perhaps that the current stations didn't have the authority to "sell" to AAR? Only read that one place and no verification so that could be BS - but it would point to there possibly being some more complications in the overall arrangements that perhaps have fallen apart.

[No2W2004]

121. what it could be

AAR hears that Liu is still charging the previous owners' for the LA signal, so they tell Liu that AAR has stopped payment on the check for LA until Liu "fixes" the problem. Liu, who owns the stations that AAR is on in LA and Chicago then takes AAR off for non-payment (although AAR says Chicago is paid up). Both sides think they have done nothing wrong.

[Raoul Mowatt]

131. Interviews sought

I'm a reporter for the Chicago Tribune looking to write about Air America and I'm looking for regular listeners who would like to comment on it. If you are interested, would you please e-mail me your name and phone number to [e-mail] ? Thanks!

[AWhitneyBrown]

139. Not Surprised

I worked at AirAmerica Radio from December 15 until a couple of weeks ago, and I'm not surprised at all to hear this. My concern is that people will draw the wrong lesson; that liberal radio is unviable. The right lesson, in my opinion, has to do with working for people who used to run dotcoms.

[salin]

141. If you would care to share

I, for one, would be very interested. Was around a whole lot of dotcomers (some made it huge in the mid/late nineties) but am in a completely unrelated field. How would that have played into this confusion/situation?

Welcome to DU!

[LoZoccolo]

148. Working for people who used to run dotcoms?

The right lesson, in my opinion, has to do with working for people who used to run dotcoms.

I don't understand.

[AWhitneyBrown]

142. Okay...

I'm not claiming any inside knowledge of this particular chapter in the ongoing trainwreck of Air America Radio, only a general knowledge of the character of the people who run it, from having worked for them.
But let's examine AAR's story. They are paying for the LA station, and after they send in their check, they find out that the landlord is also charging the previous tenant, so they stop payment on their check.

What is wrong with this story? First, how does Multicultural charging a previous tenant exempt AAR from paying it's rent? In fact, what does it have to do with AAR at all? It would seem to me like the one with the bitch is the one paying who is not on the air. Where is this guy? How come he's not pitching a bitch? He's the one who should be stopping payment. The story doesn't add up.

[salin]

144. that part I found curious

as they would not be the ones being cheated.

I definitely am in the camp that this whole situation is a little more complex and convoluted than appears at first blush.

I do hope that the problems being had are resolveable. And that the challenges you imply are addressable. I would hate to see the venture fall apart.

[trapper914]

147. It doesn't add up...

...unless the party who paid and isn't on the air in LA started legal action against Air America. I don't know how much the station situation in LA is to New York, but in the Big Apple, there was some consternation that Air America replaced a Spanish-language station. Those cries of "stifling the minority voice" always get attention. Could be the same thing in LA, although I'm only hypothesizing here.

[AWhitneyBrown]

151. Not exactly

WLIB in NYC was a Caribbean station, not Spanish. Very much a part of the Island culture here, indeed of all the Black community. A lot of people were upset, but the excuse given was that it hadn't made money for many years. In the media business, I don't have any idea what that really means, however. A lot of very profitable things, like baseball teams, and movies never make money.

I notice that at Smoking Gun they have the AAR filing from this morning. Essentially what it says is that because of dispute in the Santa Monica (LA) station, the owner (of both Chi and LA) also pulled the plug in Chicago. They say that was unfair, but make absolutely no mention of what the original dispute was in LA. They do make mention that the LA dispute should be solved by arbitration. That doesn't sound like a very strong case, to me.

[Chomskyite]

143. This little fracas could be GOOD news for AA

Remember how O'Reilly's lawsuit propelled Al Franken's book to #1 on amazon in one day last year?

Think of the free publicity Air America will get out of this one.

[AWhitneyBrown]

146. Don't expect..

Any good news for Air America Radio. The list of bad decisions they have made would fill a lengthy magazine piece, and I only hope, as I said, the wrong lesson is not drawn from their failure.

[mac1000a]

150. Would you care to list

some of the bad decisions AAR has made? I'm amazed you seem to know so much, since I can't even find their streaming numbers.

[Lex]

152. Yeah, I'm wondering that myself.

Having read the injunction filed (on thesmokinggun.com) I think this Liu fellow has really screwed up. The injunction states they have a dispute about the Santa Monica station and Liu locks the doors and pulls AAR off the air in Chicago?

AAR says about 5 times in that injunction petition that all sums have been paid in full.

Hmmmm.

[AWhitneyBrown]

154. Don't be...

amazed. I worked for AAR at the NYC office until two weeks ago. By the way, they did claim 2 million streams on the first day, but I think it worth keeping in mind that RealNetworks, which provide the streaming, and presumably the numbers, is on record as being a major investor. I would take the streaming numbers with that in mind before I put any money into AAR. You know, due diligence and all that.

[mac1000a]

159. You still didn't

list any of the bad decisions that the station has made.

[AWhitneyBrown]

160. I'd prefer to pass on that for now.

I still have a lot friends who are working there.

[salin]

170. Maybe they can help

turn potential problems around - I really hope that this succeeds.

[CarlWoodward]

167. so ...

... you're a disgruntled ex-employee, then? Don't take it personally when I take your comments with a grain of salt.

[AWhitneyBrown]

181. Take them however you like.

Or not, it's a free country.

[robbedvoter]

211. Disgruntle much?

[BullwinkleJMoose]

162. Free ride

If the folks at AirAmericaRadio's story holds water it would seem they are viewing someone else's prepayment for airtime as one might treat a parking meter with time left on it.

The previous renter of airwave time may well have been required to pay their bill regardless of whether they filled it with programming or not. How many times have you agreed to rent a car for 2 days, and turned it in after only 42 hours (for any number of reasons). Sure, you don't get a refund or any prepaid gas back, but you also don't have to incur additional costs or lost time circling the block until your 48 hours is up.

Maybe AirAmerica got into your rental car and noticed that you still had 6 hours left, and presumed that it was just like finding time on a meter. Thinking they were the beneficialries of a freebie, they saw no reason to "feed the meter early".

If that's the case these guys are hosed. There is no such thing as a free lunch or free airtime. Based on my listening, I've heard no advertisers except public service announcements and a spot for that play by Tim Robbins that is bombing so horribly on off-broadway. So I suspect the giant sucking sound being heard is the cash being sucked out of AirAmerica with no revenues coming in.

Unlike most syndicated shows which are offered for "sale" to radio networks and affiliated stations, AAR's programming involves renting airtime that will (hopefully) become sponsored by ad revenues to offset those costs. It's not a bad approach if you are cash poor but have eager and willing advertisers and a hot product. Even Bill O'Reilly's payola-like method of essentially bribing stations to carry him would have failed if his show sucked and advertisers balked thanks to low listenership.

Webcasting ain't gonna cut it for advertisers - an established show could pull that off but a rookie, untried commodity is not a place where advertisers are going to gamble. They need arbitron ratings from real listeners in drivetime before coughing up cash. Crying about censorship and how "the man" is going to keep lib-radio down, rings hollow. If a show is interesting and draws an audience, somebody will pay to sell stuff to those listeners - it's that simple. No conspiracy, no black helicopters.

BJM

[Lex]

155. Knowing Al Franken, he'll get on all the late night shows

and turn it all into a good, funny story and the listenership will increase by tenfold.

That's how he played O'Really/Fox's pathetic lawsuit and his book sales went through the roof.

[American liberal]

168. the thing is...

so far, no media, except a pitiful little mostly lopsided story in the Chicago Tribune, is picking it up! AAR's 2nd and 3rd largest markets were yanked off the air and no one's talking! there's a piddly press release on AAR's website--nothing in the NYT, on the major networks, LA Times, the other market hit, recycled the Chicago Tribune story. I mean, there's more coverage of who's going to win "The Apprentice" than AAR in the media right now. And I have just spent the past two hours poking around on the Web trying to get more info. It's pitiful!

And for the person who argued that we (DU members) are going to listen to one side of the debate only--pshaw* Go back and hang out with your *freeper* friends. I, for one of many, never accept anything at face value. Let me hear many sides of the truth and then I will make up my own mind. You good people can speculate all you want on this thread, which is a perfectly normal thing to do. But until a credible Journalist (I'm NOT talking about ANYTHING off of Drudge or FoShoFlash.com) can produce a story that fairly takes an accounting from both sides (including their attorneys) as well as some probing of their own, I RESERVE JUDGMENT.

If it's true that GE does, in fact, own these subsidiary stations, I would not put it past the MIC member to try to stifle free speech.

As for AAR itself, whatever your opinion about the format, the guests, the topics, its level of professionalism, I believe it is an important voice in our current climate of corporate-controlled everything and that we should be united in our efforts to keep it alive. I've actually heard some really compelling voices, and I think the woman with the rather loud, obnoxious manner who is on for four hours in the late afternoon (her name escapes me right now) sometimes nails point after point after point and keeps it fairly clean and honest. But AAR is no NPR, not by ANY stretch of the imagination. AAR is much more raw, much less technologically savvy. (You certainly wouldn't hear disconnect after disconnect on Talk of the Nation, now would you?) Much younger and inexperienced. Franken never did talk radio before this venture. TV and radio are two entirely different disciplines. I give him a lot of credit for trying.

I suggest you look at the big picture of the First Amendment before you knock what AAR is trying to accomplish. I mean, what have YOU done to advance your values and beliefs today other than vent your opinions (just like me) on a message board? eh?

If anybody gets more updated info. on AAR getting shut down, could you please post it here? Thanks!

Concerned Citizen

[Gabysan]

153. Off The Air

I am a lifelong Democrat and an Air America listener since it went on the air. I am a supporter of John F Kerry. If this venture fails it will be for one reason, and one reason only. The shows are boring. They drone on and on without much substance or humor. As Democrats we can do much better. Being killed by an outside force is bad enough. What is happening to AA now is a form of suicide.

[LoZoccolo]

157. It doesn't matter if it's boring.

It is the medium chosen by our ideological leader, Barbra Streisand, for delivery of the liberal agenda for the day.

Now go do what you have to.

[Gabysan]

161. Huh?

It seems you may doubt my sincerity. I want our ideas to win in the marketplace. Talk radio is a great forum to do just that. However, make it fun and entertaining to listen to.

[robbedvoter]

194. Inside joke - we use Streisand istead of "Ditto" - a liberal thang

[ronnykmarshall]

209. Streisand

[LoZoccolo]

212. Plus he'd get it if he listened to...

...Morning Sedition towards the end of the show.

[Armstead]

No substance?

I'm not always wild about everything I hear on AA, but overall I think they're doing a good job on-air for a new medium. In some cases a great job.

They get into things that have never seen the light of day except for little enclaves like DU. And they have a variety of flavors of liberal and progressive.

I'm not sure what you expect. It's a tough balance to find. If it's all substance, people will say it's dry. If it's too irreverant, people will say it's too frivolous.

[Lex]

158. As a lifelong Republican, I'm an AirAmerica listener

and I love the show! I can't listen to Rush's lies anymore and think AirAmerica has GREAT programming.

Rush won't be around long if myself, and other lifelong Republicans, continue to listen to AirAmerica.

:: cough ::

[Gabysan]

164. Maybe I'm Just Slow But,,,

Are you serious?

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[doni_georgia]

166. I totally disagree

I enjoy Air America - I listen to Randi and to Majority Report online. I just remember back during the Clinton years - all the right wingers moans and screams of conspiracies to silence them - but never once were any of those hateful lying repug talk shows shut down. Rush Limbaugh spewed his hatred daily as did Hannity and Boortz. With the possible exception of Boortz - not one minute of entertainment or humor on those assholes' shows (Boortz can be funny if for no other reason than he contradicts himself so much that it is humorous, and he gives the religious right far more hell than most liberals). I think the new owners of the LA and Chicago stations are not happy with the liberal programming. Face it, in this age of corporate media there's not much chance for free speech.

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lex]

171. I doubt you have a job where you have to convey

a point.

You too must've beeen to the George W. Bush school of clarity.

[Name removed]

177. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[salin]

172. lol little bit of performance art this evening.. eh?

lets see... stifling debate... with folks whose entire post such as this is dripping with condescending tone...

lets see... all liberals hate capitalists... and all liberals don't work they just protest...

wow that is some meaningful debate and conversation. wow! I don't think I could hear that distorted point of view anywhere else like... oh... Rush or Sean or Niel or Savage or ORielly or....

you mean a private discussion board that sets up a place free of that kind of drivel shouldn't be around? not that some of the real conservative boards are so welcoming of liberal thought and expression or anything...

[mac1000a]

175. Grow up

Debate here is always welcomed. What isn't isn't whiny, flaming, or vicious attacks. All of us here have jobs or have had jobs and you just make yourself sound petty when you resort to such tired cliches.

[American liberal]

176. dude...

I couldn't even sign ON to freerepublic (I tried to sign on as Peaceful American--they never even responded)let alone voice my opinion on that board, so you can take your high and mightily ignorant assitude and hightail it right back over to freeperland.
See ya', wouldn't wanna BE ya'

[LoZoccolo]

178. See the little gold star by my name?

It means I've paid the site to operate. When I and other liberals pay for a website, we get to use it how we want, and we don't want to sift through tons of disinformation to get the information we came here for. You'll find - should you decide to stick around after you're tombstoned - that there's actually a pretty wide range of opinion here. But if you are almost totally decidedly anti-liberal, yes, you shouldn't be here wasting our time. The web site exists for the benefit of it's members, and we don't want it clogged with distractions. Read the hate mailbag if you want to see some of the stuff that might be right here for us to sift through if we didn't filter out people with common interests.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/mail/index.html

Does Sean Hannity allow us to come on and take over half his radio show? Oh, then he must not believe in free speech and dissent.

Does Free Republic let us on? Oh.

[Danorama]

184. A stranger in a strange land...

Let me start with full disclosure: I got here because of the Drudge link and I'm generally not what you'd call a supporter of Kerry.

That being said, I'm always interested in hearing other points of view because, if nothing else, it stretches my brain.

From an outsider position, here's my question (and I don't mean to be offensive about this...)

Do the people who are posting things to the effect of 'Halliburton must be at fault', 'Bush's buddies are covertly working to get AA off the air', etc. really believe those things, or is it just a statement of frustration?

I mean, truthfully, most of the Conservative folks I know (and those I've heard) aren't 'trying to do everything in their power to get AA off the air'. It's a radio network of something like 6 stations, right?

In my opinion, it's getting a whole lot more coverage than it really deserves (probably because of the personalities / celebrities involved). If I were a Bush-drone, minority hater, Haliburton stooge, wouldn't I be worrying more about, say, getting the significant Latino networks off the air (since we're talking about it)?

I know I'm probably a terrible person for asking the questions, so we can skip the abuse.

I'm honestly interested in understanding the mindset here.

[Lex]

185. Can you kindly point me in the direction

of where it it alledged on this site the following:

Your quote: "I mean, truthfully, most of the Conservative folks I know (and those I've heard) aren't 'trying to do everything in their power to get AA off the air'."

I don't think think that most of the right wingers/conservatives are "trying to do everything in their power to get AA off the air."

And I never saw such a thing alleged. In fact I would venture that "most conservatives" have never even heard AirAmerica.

Thanks in advance for posting the link to the allegation you describe.

[mac1000a]

196. I don't think

most people here think your average conservative is trying to get AAR off the air. We are instead referring to the extreme element of the Republican Party, the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage and so forth. As I stated in one of my above posts, these extremists have a long history of trying to silence liberal voices, from Bill O'Reilly trying to sue Al Franken to Michael Savage trying to sue Take Back the Media to Harpers trying to censor Michael Moore's book to the RNC trying to block groups like Moveon.org from advertising.

What has been learned is that the man responsible for pulling the plug on AAR is a donator to Republican politicians and so is his wife. Given the history to intimidation by these people, it makes some of us very suspicious.

[Danorama]

203. Response from the Alien

First of all, I'm just assuming that I'm the "freeper" in reference earlier. For what it's worth, I think the freepers are nuts, too.

As far as *believing* Drudge, I didn't say that. I'm on Drudge's RSS because most of the things that he posts are actually links to stories done by other people (NY Times, WSJ, etc., etc.) That's exactly how I arrived here. He just linked to the story.

As to the lawyer-wrangling, I sort-of agree. It's ridiculous for everyone to sue each other over such inconsequential stuff. That being said, I think Al Franken probably prayed for a lawsuit. Whether or not he had to change the title of his book, it meant a publicity windfall.

What I don't understand is why one side's lawsuits are any better than the others:

From the right, FOX was trying to protect their tradmark. From the left, Al Franken isn't going to be confused with the FOX network any time soon.

From the right, MoveOn.org / George Soros & company have done their own lawsuit brigade to try to get conservative voices to go away. From the left, they are just trying to tell a different side of the story and what's wrong with that?

How about we all agree to stop weilding laws / lawyers like weapons and let anyone say and believe anything they want to? We just need to change the libel laws to apply to political speech, as well, so that neither side's politicians can lie about the others.

And as an aside to the last comment I read, if the man responsible for pulling the plug on AAR is a Republican stooge, then that must mean the man responsible for putting them on the air in LA and Chicago is also a Republican stooge. Doesn't make sense, does it?

Again, just trying to understand. I haven't been abusive to anyone (nor do I plan on it).

[LoZoccolo]

205. You've got it backwards.

From the right, MoveOn.org / George Soros & company have done their own lawsuit brigade to try to get conservative voices to go away.

I've never heard of this.

From the left, they are just trying to tell a different side of the story and what's wrong with that?

The Republicans are trying to prevent MoveOn.org from airing anti-Bush ads through campaign finance laws by alleging that their actions are coordinated with the Kerry campaign.

[mac1000a]

213. Fox News was trying to protect their trademark?

Please. There's a reason they got laughed out of court when they tried to use that excuse. The phrase "fair and balanced" is about as old in journalism as you can get. Fox News has no more legitimate claim to that then anyone else. And even if they did, you might want to look up a little law called the Fair Use Doctrine. It states that citizens have the right to use copyrighted material in small portions for the purposes of education, comment, analysis, criticism, or satire. Franken's book definitely fell under that.

As for Moveon.org attempting to silence right wing groups from advertising, ah I'm sure not aware of anything like that. The only right wing groups that I've heard complain about being silenced are the ones like the NRA or Operation Rescue, and they're afraid that it's the Republican campaign against Moveon that's going to do it for them. The whole Republican complaint against Moveon is that they can't advertise because they're endorsing a political candidate, which isn't true. Moveon has never endorsed a candidate, which is why what they're doing is perfectly legal. They criticize the president, but they have never endorsed John Kerry. It's groups like the NRA that are afraid that if the Republicans succeed against Moveon, then they're going to be silenced too because they do the same thing. And they actually do endorse candidates. They send lists on who to vote for to all of their members.

As for the man putting them on the air being a Republican stooge, I don't know all the details about how Air America got on. That's known only to Air America and everyone else involved. The situation now is that Air America is said to have $30 million in funds to carry them over for the next few years. They didn't expect to make a profit for a long time, and they have plenty of money to support them while they didn't. So suddenly, the owner comes out saying that Air America bounced a check? This just sounds like such bullshit for so many reasons. Air America has plenty of money for one. And they also know that there are a lot of Republicans who love to see them fail just so they can go, "See, no one wants to listen to liberal radio." So they'd have to be pretty stupid to do something to give them ammo like that. And then, they get taken off the day after Bush's speech, by a man with known ties to the Republican Party. As I said, I don't know all the details that went on behind closed doors, but there's the pieces to the puzzle, make of them what you will.

[Beau Tacques]

180. Ummm....they bounced a check.

That will get your business relationship terminated quicker than anything else short of an actual lawsuit.

Now they have new bumper music.

[Lex]

182. Drudge is a liar. And if you believe him

you're a stone-cold sucker for believing anything he says.

One born every minute.

[LoZoccolo]

183. Hahahaha I get it.

Boing.

[ronnykmarshall]

186. WRONG!!!

http://www.airamericaradio.com/pub/resNews.htm

Get a life Freeper asshole!

[SideshowScott]

197. Well all you Air America haters can gloat now..

Cause I think Air America will win if it goes to court..I find it odd how AA was taken off the air after Bush speech and without warning or anything. Thats just bad business on the part of the station owner if you ask me. The more I hear about it the more I think the owner was paid more to take it off the air. After all Nazis only want one voice, one way of thinking, follow party line blindly and want to rule the airwaves with propaganda with no competion..Oh did I say Nazi's? I meant GOP..I don't know HOW I got the two connected..
We knew its was going to be a fight Friends, and this does not surprise me at all that there was going to be some dirty tricks to get Air America off the air. Notice how Drudge broke the story..You can always tell when something smells when Drudge gets it first.
We will get it back in Chicago and L.A. and more stations im sure of it..You cant keep a good thing down.
And thinking about it more Air America has XM and Sirus so who needs the airwaves when satellite radio is the future?.. Enjoy it now lurking rightys, your glee will be short lived.
Am I the only one who is thinking thats not the real A Whitney Brown thats posting? If so any dirt on the Daily Show Whitney? I really think its beneath him to come here just to air out dirty laundry cause he did not like his job. ANY starting company will have bugs to work out.
Scott

[smada]

198. Good story coverage from Miami Herald

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/national/...

This article lays out the dipute very well. It sounds like both sides acted hastily and irrationally, contrary to what reasonable business people would normally do.

In the end, I think AAR, by taking the action they did, did more damage to themselves than good. Going off the air in two of their biggest markets is a huge blow for a startup network.

Why did they decide to withhold payment instead of come to agreement over the dispute while ensuring they stayed on the air?

[rman]

199. sounds different then AA's story;

http://www.airamericaradio.com/pub/resNews.htm

<snip>
"This Liu-ser was ripping off our boss Evan Cohen big time (he can’t do that, that’s our job). Evan found out about it and he stopped payment on a check to keep Liu-cifer from ripping him off even more. You can touch Evan for the occasional meal or drinks but a million bucks is crossing the line."

(so much for "bouncing a check")

<snip>

So now everyone’s saying we’re going down the dumper in Chicago and Los Angeles, but what they don’t tell you is that we’re still on in Portland. And we OWN Portland. And let’s not forget Riverside and Plattsburgh. And New York. And streaming on the internet. And XM. And Sirius. Actually we’re fine.

"So cool your jets. Air America Radio isn’t dead, we’re in court and we’re going to slam Liu’s head in a car door. Another metaphor. We hope to be back on the air tomorrow or the next day in those markets."
<snip>

[xultar]

201. It isn't different, he was ripping him off...AAR paid for time in LA

and instead of keeping AIR the time blank, Liu leased it to someone else.

That is not right...It is like your landlord leasing your apartment while you go on a 2 week vacation.

So the guy pulled them off the air in LA and Chicago.

Chicago has nothing to do with it and he pulled them off there for leverage.

It is bullshit.

So, help AAR out and call Liu

212/966.1059
626/844.8882

[BullwinkleJMoose]

202. In Liu of a real press release

The AA press release, while modestly funny, shows an even worse sense of good business than bouncing a check.

They took the time to make all kinds of references to slamming Liu's head in a car door, etc., dish up his home/office phone numbers, and a link to his website, but missed a huge opportunity to demonstrate professionalism, the question of which is at the heart of this issue.

That press release would have been a perfect place to include copies of documentation such as images of cancelled checks and the agreement and spelling out all the details. Instead they spouted vaguely stated claims of being "ripped off" and shouted about how badly they were going to kick the guy's ass.

Maybe Liu is wrong. Maybe AAR is wrong. Probably it's somewhere in the middle. But when trying to make a case to the public, shouting loudly, posting links to encourage harassment, and cracking jokes are poor substitutes for facts and documentation.

Which makes me suspicious that such documentation as is surely accessible to them may not be all that supportive of their claim. When the facts are on your side argue the law, when they aren't shout about fairness. My guess based on their press release is that they are screwed.

Before folks cry about the lack of press coverage on this, keep in mind that AirAmerica (and it's poster child Al Franken) have gotten a hugely disproportionate amount of press coverage from the get go, compared to any number of other startup ventures. I don't recall seeing O'Reilly, Rush, or Hannity's mug on the major morning talkshows in the months PRIOR to their shows' launchings. And with all their successes in the radio and book markets I doubt those three combinedb have as many hours on the major morning TV talk shows in the past 3 years as Al Franken has in the last 3 months.

Be careful what you wish for regarding coverage. If it turns out AA screwed the pooch on this you might be grateful the big network news cats are looking the other way.

BJM

[rman]

204. but , it's not "both sides acted hastily and irrationally",

as it is allegedly presented by the Miami Herald.
AA doesn't seem to present its story like that.

[robbedvoter]

206. You are aware Ted Olson old firm is defending Liu, right?

So much for free market!
Write him:
[e-mail]

[BullwinkleJMoose]

207. It's all clear now here are the facts as I know 'em

Air America Radio contracted with Multicultural Radio Broadcasting to rent airtime in Chicago on WNTD 950AM (of about 168 hours/week) for a term from February 1, 2004 through January 31, 2005 (and presumably a similar deal for MRB's station in Los Angeles).

AAR did not have programming ready to go fill the air time, so MRB filled it with other alternative programming (in preference to transmitting dead air) until AAR started broadcasting. AAR feels that since MRB was getting compensated for the alternative programming, AAR should get a break on what it paid. Whether they bounced a check, put a stop payment on it, or simply asked MRB to hold off on cashing it until they worked out a deal (presuming a deal could or should be reached) is unclear, but MRB felt they were getting stiffed and locked the doors.

The correct thing for AAR to have done was to continue to keep it's account current and then seek arbitration to get a credit for the resold airtime that AAR believes they may be entitled to.

By playing hardball (attempting to withhold payments in whatever way this was attempted) AAR upped the ante and forced MRB's hand into taking drastic measures that will no doubt bite them both in the @ss. Only the lawyers will come out ahead on this one.

This is not a good harbring of the direction AAR is headed. Welcome to the big leagues.

BJM

[Logansquare]

208. I have to agree--I'm uneasy with the way this was handled

Make sure you stay on the air first, and *then* go to court.

[robbedvoter]

210. They ARE on the air. Going to court is to stay on the air in more markets

It's an injunction - urgent measure to put them on the air pronto. Everything else goes to arbitration as per contract. before bitching, read.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0414043air1.html
page 4, p 12

[BullwinkleJMoose]

214. Too true Logan

The world is littered with tombstones that read "But I was right!"

The only cardinal sin of broadcasting is dead air. For AAR guys to muck things up (REGARDLESS of whether they will ultimately proved to have been in the right) such that they got locked out shows an immaturity in a business that eats it's young daily.

I think there is a degree of arrogance about operating in radio being childsplay from both a programming and operations perspective for AAR and that arrogance is probably the "Achilles tendon" that will prove to be their fatal flaw.

[gemlake]

216. Reminds me of when

publishers refused to print Michael Moore's book following 9/11, because "no one wants to read a book critical of bush." The book was eventually published and became a runaway bestseller. Your dire predictions about ARR are laughable. AAR will do just fine. At least none of the AAR host are drug addicts, like Rush.

[BullwinkleJMoose]

219. Brilliant response BoreDem

Funny, I don't recall hearing that Rush Limbaugh's drug problem or Michael Moore's difficulty in acquiring a publisher was a factor in AAR's lemonade-stand-like management of a problem that managed to get them yanked from their two of the three largest markets.

I'm not denying there is a market for liberally biased commentative radio, I'm just saying the guys running AAR are ultimately responsible for losing the signal. The buck stops there.

I'm conservative but gave AAR an ear to hear if it was funny, entertaining, or informative. It is all of the above but in fits and spurts and I don't see much sign of improvement. I am kind of rooting for Lib-radio because if it proves to be a challenger... it will raise the bar for quality (as healthy competition always does).

I've posted several times and feel my logic, facts and opinions were pretty straightforward and well supported, but I don't see a lot of similar posts addressing the issue, just whining about the travesty of it all along with implications of mysterious conspiracies and misdirection. In any event I don't see the substance of my posts being challenged on their merits and your rant was no exception.

I conclude that Al Franken is terribly miscast as the host )just as Dennis Miller has been on the other side of the coin). They both make great guests, are a barrel of laughs, have quick wits and deep thoughts that make me want to tune in, but you can only take it in small doses - not as a main course. They can't keep the sustainable pace required to capture and retain an incredibly fickle audience.

BJM

[gemlake]

221. If you spend a couple of days

listening to AAR and then come to DU to trash the network, what do you expect? You have failed to present any cogent argument against AAR, other than a meritless slam on their business practices based on unsubstantiated rumors. See ya.

[apnu]

223. a couple of points

1) The Internet is 80% whine 20% content. Wanna prove it? Look at the bitching here and then look at the bitching the freepers do and you'll see the same ratio of bitching vs content.

2) Logic and opinion can never, logically, co-exist. So stick to one or the other... Logic or opinion.

3) You don't know the details of AAR's and MC's deals, so calling AAR's management a "lemon stand" is hardly supportable. And them loosing the signal as their fault is also something you don't know. Unless you are a board member of AAR of MC I don't believe you are qualified to make a judgment of whose fault it is.

4) Al Franken is not AAR. Why don't conservatives understand that? He's just currently in the big time slot against Rush. That's it. There are many on DU that don't like him and many that do. If you don't like Franken, then give the station a skip during the show. You can listen to Chuck D, Garofalo, Rhodes, and in a few weeks a whole new weekend line up.

5) DU is a place where commonly aligned ideologues collect (the liberals). This place is designed and supported as a haven for liberals. This is not the place to bait or debate with opposite ideologues (you the conservative). You have freeperland as your conservative haven, and if you wish to have a debate with liberals then go to neutral territory and have that debate! There are tons of boards out there to hijack, try CNN, Yahoo, MSNBC and play your liberal baiting game there. Continuing this charade of a reasonable discourse you're lamely proposing will only get your account banned on DU.

[oc2002]

224. BullwinkleJMoose? Freeper? Post count of 8?

um..looks like Bullwinkle is looking forward to AAR downfall, or is he pretending otherwise?

[mac1000a]

225. Breaking News

Randi just announced that Chicago is going back on the air. The judge ruled that Air America was right and ruled in their favor. All they have to do is get in the door. The asshole Liu changed the locks.

Los Angeles was not part of this injunction but Randi says they are pursuing this as well.

Take that you stupid, arrogant, numbskull freepers!

[LoZoccolo]

226. WOO HOO!

Someone I know in a local chat room was saying that AAR was out of money and would go off the air completely on Friday, and even after I told him that there was a stop-payment on the check it didn't really bounce, he said it didn't matter because it was done for lack of funds. Of course, I already knew that AAR could run for two years without making any money, but when they come back on he'll see! Bahahahaha!

Anyone know where the station is located? Maybe some of us Chicago DUers could form a welcoming committee to cheer on the lone staffer when they make their return! It's a nice day to be outside anyways.

[wicket]

227. Alright!!!!

kick!

[oc2002]

230. Is there a press release on that?

or a link to one.

Thanks.

[gemlake]

228. Anyone in Chicago?

Is AAR back on in Chicago yet?

[LoZoccolo]

229. Uh...well...no.

I have a feeling someone's locked out of the building.