2016 Postmortem
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CaliforniaPeggy
(149,639 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)GoldenThunder
(300 posts)I guess he flew right off the end of the scale.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)He may not know nothing, but, boy, can he talk!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)they gave him a 5.1C, placing him right of Kaisich and left of Rubio.
I chose this because these ratings are composites of the candidates personal records in the past, donation histories, etc., not graphs of how they're viewed by the public, but these positions don't necessarily reflect current behaviors. The left is okay, although most other graphs put Hillary a bit farther left.
On the right though, Marco Rubio moves wherever is best for him and is rated as the relative moderate he pretended to be for some time, but most observers now consider him way over toward Cruz. Kaisich is also posturing as a moderate, but after reading about his record I see him as a smarter, more experienced Scott Walker.
All things are "relative," of course, but the GOP had moved to what had been considered the extreme right by the end of the 1980s, and there are no moderate con candidates in this field when looking from a longer view.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Does that source publish anything on where each candidate ranks in their policies or histories?
Both Democratic candidates have visited Flint to learn from residents about the water crisis. Bernie Sanders called for the resignation of Gov. Rick Snyder, I believe on Jan. 16.
Economic Inequality is Much Worse Than Most Americans Believe
According to a recent study, most of us severely underestimate just how bad the gap between the rich and the rest of us have gotten.
BY DAVID SIROTA
In These Times, Oct. 3, 2014
EXCERPT...
Early in the 2014 election cycle, Democrats seemed poised to make economic inequality a central focus of their campaigns, following the high-profile election victories of economic populists like Sen. Elizabeth Warren and New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio.
But as the Washington Post reported, internal Democratic Party polling found that talking about income inequality does not register strongly with the American public and risks accusations of class warfare. Recent polling from the Pew Research Center found while a large majority of Americans acknowledge the growing gap between rich and poor and see it as a problem, there is little public consensus on the cause ofor proper counter tothat trend.
That lack of consensus, coupled with a lack of understanding of the enormity of the pay gap, has complicated Democrats' efforts to make inequality a rallying point. In an interview with the Washington Post, Democratic pollster Geoff Garin said another obstacle is the belief that inequality has no concrete ramifications for voters' daily lives.
It doesnt have a personal immediacy and there are lot of other things that speak to income inequality that are much more immediate and much more tangible and much more real to people, he told the newspaper.
CONTINUED...
http://inthesetimes.com/article/17217/economic_inequality_is_much_worse_than_most_americans_believe
I'll say income inequality has everything to do with what happened in Flint, Michigan.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)metrics, but I don't find a scale just for that. Here's their issues page. Their info is set up to help people decide what they believe, since so many really have little idea ("Just keep your big-government hands off my Social Security!" https://www.crowdpac.com/issues
You can also see such things as their evaluations of people running for federal, state, and local offices in the various states.
A lot of good stuff won't copy, but here are the five most pro-Sanders zips codes in the country.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)than she is to Bernie or Elizabeth.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)positions shift a bit depending on the data used. Almost all others put her somewhat farther left, but still well short of Bernie. Webb's a smart guy but a Republican cross-over and more than a bit of a dick, as we saw in the debates.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)They have all swallowed hook line and sinker a redefinition of what constitutes right and left based on the incredibly rightwardly skewed political landscape of the United States.
I mean FFS, Sanders is just a guy advocating some increased regulation of a still pretty much free market capitalist economy and some expanded public sector involvement in a few key areas like education and health care. And he's pegged out at the far end of the left spectrum like he's a raving communist advocating that the state nationalize all means of production.
In the view of people who have not had those particular blinders applied the graph looks more like this:
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)You know, it's disgusting to see this stuff brought to DU and truly amazing that you think any intelligent DUer wouldn't "make" it at first glance.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)So you're saying you think Bernie is *extreme* left on the political spectrum? Right out on the end? Almost nowhere for him to go?
Where would you put a communist? Just a scooch to the outside of him (considering according to your graph there's nowhere else to put anyone)? Because I'd personally call THAT propaganda.
What exactly about a realistic assessment of where candidates fall on the full spectrum of political philosophies as opposed to the blinkered reduced realm of possibilities Republicans try to convince everyone is normal do you find "disgusting"? What exactly is "disgusting" about it?
Do you have some substance to your reaction, or are you going purely on emotion here?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)left of Bernie. When they bother to find them and chart them, which is usually not. Some American analysts just toss the entire left wing, anarchists to...Jim Webb under one label and leave it at that. They're seemingly mainly just interested in the big mainstream group and don't have funding or inclination to differentiate. Maybe that's a change Bernie and you guys will have made already. It would help explain why they weren't asking the right questions.
Anyone remember this Political Happy Hour graph from 2014? Guessing political orientation by the beer and wine preferences. That's likelihood of voting on the vertical axis and liberal to conservative on the horizontal, obligingly colored blue to red. Of course, what's "in" with some groups will no doubt have changed. What I notice is that, as expected, we on the left are more adventurous and varied in what we drink.
src=&w=1484
Perhaps unsurprisingly, beers you might expect to find someone drinking while watching a football game Miller Lite, Coors Light, basically anything that bills itself as a low-calorie beer leans Republican. Rolling Rock, Milwaukees Best and Miller High Life, on the other hand, are hipster beers. They lean Democratic. So do microbrews (Boy, the stereotype jokes practically write themselves, dont they?). Heavier beers like Miller Genuine Draft and Budweiser lean Democratic more than their lighter counterparts.
But beer drinkers are far less likely to show up to the polls than wine drinkers are. Oenophiles who prefer Cabernet Sauvignon are more likely to vote Republican, while Sauvignon blanc drinkers are overwhelmingly Democratic voters. And heres another interesting distinction to draw: Those who drink brown liquors tend to vote Republican, but the type of whiskey one prefers says something about how likely one is to vote. Someone who enjoys a nice single-malt scotch is more likely to cast a ballot than someone who prefers Canadian whiskey, and Bourbon drinkers turn out with the least frequency.
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)It appears to have vanished since nothing you just said in any way disputed the conclusions in my post.
Or did I completely misread your post and you were actually saying YOUR earlier graphic was the disgusting propaganda?
(I have no idea what purpose you think your fun with alcohol graph is is serving...)
1. All honest political analysts evaluate Hillary Clinton, based on looking at her and her 30 years in public service, as liberal, typically moderate, although some dig deeper and feel she is strongly liberal on some social issues and less so on some others that are affected by her Methodist upbringing. On an intellectual level, it is clear that any graph that sticks her over with conservatives is literally designed to deceive.
2. I am a strong liberal socially and economically but can also vary from strong to moderate liberal on some economic and military issues that might need answers right away. I have always have tested out as a strong liberal, what conservatives used to call a radical liberal Democrat -- as an insult. I struggle not to despise what conservatives have become these days and to remember to search for the good points almost everyone has. On a personal level, I of course recognize immediately that any graph that depicts me as conservative is phony and, btw, on this board usually also intended to insult.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...and that the center falls where it does, then Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, Bobby Jindal and Mike Huckabee are all more moderate than Hillary Clinton... closer to political centrism than she is.
Do you believe this statement, or does this statement strike you as undeniable bullshit?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Thank you for grokking, CaliforniaPeggy!
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Darn it, she picked the wrong primary again, that is why she never wins the white house!
Bernie is right where he belongs, perhaps he is even the last of the New Deal, Great Society Democrats left in politics.
He has my vote!!!!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)for the last 40 has been looting the 99%. While the Establishment Repubs would love Clinton, the grassroots that are supporting Idiot Trump are trying to wake up their Elite Party leaders just like Sanders supporters.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)The Republicans are looking for an anti-Establishment candidate but not the Democrats. As Vox reported yesterday, exit polls on Super Tuesday show that a whopping 80% of Democrats prefer a candidate with experience while just a small 16% prefer an outside candidate. You may choose to ignore this reality but this reality won't ignore the election.
http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11143506/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-experience
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)That equals "lack of experience"? Um, OK.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)that both parties are rejecting the Establishment candidates. On the Democrat side, that simply is not true. OK ?
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Super Tuesday exit polling found that 80% of Democrats feel experience is the most important attribute for a candidate while only 16% felt that an anti-Establishment candidate was important.
Here, read this Vox article;
http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11143506/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-experience
peacebird
(14,195 posts)As is her honesty, & integrity.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)far. Sanders and The People are fighting an up hill battle against the Big Money Establishment as good Democrats should. We have to fight against a Media that is totally owned and controlled by the Big Money Establishment. Your capitalism is not sustainable. In the meantime how many poor Americans die because the Big Money Establishment is sucking up all our resources.
This is a class war between The People and the Big Money Establishment that some seem to worship.
bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)their influence lives on in the HRC campaign
Below are their pages from The Center for Media and Democracy
Dick Morris
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Dick_Morris
John Rendon
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_Rendon
And a special dance request dedicated just to you-rhett o rick (otherwise it might get BAND here)
Octafish
(55,745 posts)The peaceful exploration of space was the best thing to happen to jobs in history. At its peak, 400,000 Americans were employed in the Apollo Project.
Imagine if President Kennedy had lived, where the nation would be today? I believe, if we could figure out how to the moon and back, we could face any problem on earth and solve it -- from ending hunger, poverty and ignorance to creating a lasting peace.
Problems today's GOP considers intractable (see Poppy Bush inaugural "More will than Wallet" such as joblessness, poverty, crime, would be tackled, instead of ignored, like they've done with public education. And the treasures accumulated since would be used to make life better for everybody on earth instead of sitting in a secret Swiss bank account.
But, no. The conservatives killed the New Deal after LBJ and the Great Society. For the space program, it started with Nixon. Instead, they gave the store away to War Inc, who sank the national treasure into the "Money trumps peace" crowd.
Thank you for grokking, Dragonfli. We need Democratic Action to get out of the situation imposed by the richest and most powerful people the world has ever known, thank you Scalia.
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Which is as stupid, if you want to talk about Democratic politics, as saying that "Money Is Speech" because when only those with money can be heard, it ain't Democracy.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)erlewyne
(1,115 posts)Undo the Reagan (Bush) Revolution! Vote New Deal Bernie!
Reagan really sucked and Bush outdid him!
Hey, I was drafted and served my two years.
I went in gung-ho in 1967 and came out a hippie.
GO BERNIE !!!
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Pruneface wanted to ban the Department of Education and classify ketchup as a vegetable. Hmm. Which is better?
Here's why Reagan and the gummint ever since has worked to piratize public education and destroy the parts they can't monetize:
Not just a cheapskate, but the scum of the earth, a guy happy to take food out of the mouths of hungry children, which is Satanic, let alone one of the most un-democratic people ever "elected" president.
Ketchup Is a Vegetable & Other Republican Myths - Remember Reagan
by H Scott Prosterman
Daily Kos, SUN FEB 06, 2011
Mainstream Republicans argue that the Tea Party is disgracing Reagan's legacy. But they're forgetting how Reagan created the template and blueprint for them.
Reagan was the first president to brazenly place foxes in charge of the henhouses at the Cabinet level. Reagan Attorneys General Edwin Meese and William French Smith viciously attacked the very civil rights and equal protection laws they were charged with upholding.
Reagan made a deal with the regime of Ayatollah Khomeini in advance of the 1980 Election, in order to ensure that the American hostages would remain in captivity until after the election.
Under Reagan, the US went from being the world's largest creditor to being the largest debtor nation. Until Reagan, a balanced budget was a sacred cow of the Republican philosophy.
CONTINUED...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/06/941664/-Ketchup-Is-a-Vegetable-Other-Republican-Myths-Remember-Reagan#
They want to keep We the People the opposite of "Educated," which is "Ignorant" in order to get away with murder and all the rest. I gotta speak now before more people have to "hold their peace" from the grave.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)From the guy who helped put Iceland's banksters behind bars for a looooong and cold time, William K. Black, who explains about a guy who had the Fed print-out dough for everyone from the Pentagon to Wall Street, except Flint and Detroit and people "like That":
by William K. Black
Oct. 28, 2010
I passed up the obvious title: "Heckuva Job Larry!" That was the moment of President Obama's appearance on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart that set all Americans cringing. Yes, he really said that Summers "did a heckuva job." The candidate that was gifted the opportunity to run against the legacy of one of the worst presidents in U.S. history has, as president, used Bush as his role model to continue many disastrous policies. It was strangely fitting that he would channel Bush's infamous praise ("Heckuva job Brownie" for the FEMA chief who failed New Orleans so badly in the hurricane.
President Obama understandably wishes to focus attention on the economic disaster he inherited from President Bush. But Jon Stewart's question to him, which led to the president's gaffe, correctly asked about the message that Summers' appointment sent about the administration's commitment to fundamental change.
Summers had financial red ink on his hands at the time he was appointed. He was Rubin's chief minion in the successful effort to defeat effective financial regulation and supervision. (Yes, the effort was bipartisan and the Republican leadership shares in the guilt.) [font color="green"]Summers was not simply wrong, but also arrogant and brutal, in blocking effective regulation at the SEC and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Summers was made rich by Wall Street in one of those sordid consulting arrangements designed to buy influence and reward past and future favors.[/font color]
President Obama's appointment of Summers as his chief economic advisor made the administration's overall response to the crisis predictable. (Robert Kuttner gives a detailed explanation of the policies that Rubin's protégés championed in his new book, A Presidency in Peril.) The response would follow the disastrous Japanese model that has harmed their economy and damaged their integrity. The dominant characteristics can be summarized quickly: [font color="green"](1) the government would act for the benefit of the largest financial firms and their CEOs, even when they directed massive frauds, by (2) engineering a cover up of the banks' losses and the CEO's misconduct; (3) the administration would use the fictional reports generated to conduct the cover up to declare victory (due to their brilliance); and (4) the same strategy would impair the recovery.[/font color] (For more on the cover up, see here and here.)
CONTINUED w/links...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/no-mr-president-larry-sum_b_775307.html
William K. Black is a forensic economist who, as a government investigator, helped send many white collar criminals to prison during the S&L crisis. For some reason, the last two administrations have ignored his expertise and services.
amborin
(16,631 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Going along with the Wall Street-on-the-Potomac same old, same old isn't getting it done for me, either. These are the wealthiest times in human history. We should live in a country that reflects that.
Instead, the Jet Set sets records for good times and greed.
Wealth of richest 400 Americans surges to $2.29 trillion
By Andre Damon
World Socialist Web Site, 6 October 2014
The wealthiest 400 people in the United States had their combined net worth grow thirteen percent to $2.29 trillion this year, amidst a surging stock market and record corporate profits. The figures come from the Forbes 400 list of the wealthiest Americans, compiled every year since 1982 by the American business magazine of the same name.
As Forbes noted last week, the net worth of these 400 individuals is about the same as the gross domestic product of Brazil, a country of 200 million people. The average net worth of the Forbes 400 hit $5.7 billion, up by $700 million over the past year.
The new figures of wealth in America were generally buried in the media. Neither the New York Times nor the Wall Street Journal published an article. Nor has it been a topic in political campaigns, one month before the midterm elections. Neither big-business party has an interest in calling attention to the extraordinary levels of social inequality in the US, with endless claims that there is no money for basic social services.
Last week marked the sixth anniversary of the signing of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, which established the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, better known as the bank bailout. Since then, the wealth of the richest sections of society has soared while the annual income of the typical household has fallen by five percent.
SNIP...
[font color="green"]* Bill Gates, co-founder of Microsoft and the richest man in the US for 21 years in a row, had his wealth increase $9 billion in one year, to $81 billion. Gates wealth has increased by a staggering $31 billion in the past five years. To put this figure in perspective, since 2009 Gates wealth has increased by nearly 30 times the annual budget of the city of Detroit, currently in bankruptcy.[/font color]
CONTINUED...
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/10/06/forb-o06.html
So, while on paper these are the greatest boom times in history, most of the boom in terms of hard cash has landed in the pockets of Haves and the Have-Mores.
Personally, I believe Ms. Clinton is superior to any Republican. She may even be the smartest person in Washington. The thing is: I favor open-government, non-spying on citizens and allies, civil rights respecting, peace and prosperity for all, better days are ahead, we can all get it done if we all work together team, a Democratic team that runs on Democratic principles a nation of laws, not an Empire to enrich the few.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Sales of super-yachts rose 40% last year despite number of millionaires and ultra rich falling, according to wealth report
by Julia Kollewe
The Guardian, March 1, 2016
The global super rich continued to splash out on super-yachts and luxury goods last year, despite a decline in their overall wealth in the wake of financial market turmoil.
According to the latest wealth report from estate agents Knight Frank, published on Wednesday, sales of super-yachts boats longer than 24 metres soared 40% in 2015, with the rich roaring off to ever more far-flung destinations, such as the Antarctic and outposts in Asia, rather than their traditional ports of call in the Mediterranean and the Caribbean.
The number of ultra rich people with $30m (£22m) or more in assets fell 3% last year. There are now 187,500 with assets in excess of that benchmark, down from from 193,100 in 2014. This was the first decline since the financial crisis. Between them, they controlled $19.3tn in assets, down from $22tn the year before. This reflected the rollercoaster global stock markets, the slump in commodity prices and slowing economic growth in China and other countries.
The number of dollar millionaires around the globe also fell from 13.6 million in 2014 to 13.3 million last year. Together, they hold assets worth $66tn more than the value of all global shares added together.
But the report believes that the decline in the number of millionaires is just a blip, and predicts that by 2025, there will be more than 18 million of them.
So-called investments of passion such as art, cars, stamps and jewellery remain popular among the super rich. Knight Franks art index rose by a muted 4% last year, but a number of records were set in the worlds auction houses.
Pablo Picassos Les Femmes dAlger notched up a new record for a painting sold at auction after fetching more than $179m, while Reclining Nude by Amedeo Modigliani went under the hammer for $170m to a buyer from Shanghai.
CONTINUED...
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/02/global-super-rich-luxury-goods-yachts-wealth-report-knight-frank
I don't deny people their yachts, WillyT, but I do deny them my Essence.
Just kidding. Wish everybody could enjoy boating.
Chicago1980
(1,968 posts)Hillary Clinton is no republican just because she isn't as left as a Sanders supporter.
It's diatribe by fans of both candidates that's beyond irritating and insulting.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)The post is detailing what is essentially the status quo. A status quo Clinton has provided no reason to believe she will act to seriously challenge.
Will she govern to the left of a Republican? Sure.
How *far* to the left? Well... those of us paying attention have a pretty good idea:
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)Thanks for posting that!!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)The neocons love her. Big business love her. The NSA/CIA Black Security State love her. Those that want to exploit the environment love her. In my mind, just the D behind her name don't make her a real Democrat.
bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)... so, I'll enthusiastically support whoever the Democratic nominee may be.
chillfactor
(7,576 posts)I will support whomever is the nominee...unlike many Bernie supporters who say they will not vote for Hillary..they are the voters who should have an "R" after their names as they are not Democrats.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)so I'd say you're spot on.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)And the country sure needs an FDR right now.
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)And rec
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)and "Peace".
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)I should be so narrow-minded to say that if my candidate doesn't win then I refuse to support the eventual primary winner.
I remember Nader supporters telling us that perhaps our country needed to suffer in order to get better candidates nominated. And 8 years later our country was almost ripped to shreds thanks to George W. Bush.
Looking at the GOP candidates running today - they would almost make me wish Bush was the GOP option. Not that I would vote for him, but Bush doesn't even come close to what these assholes want to do with our country.
I don't care who a person supports for in our Democratic Primary. After Joe Biden said 'No', I decided to stay completely neutral when it comes to the democratic primaries. I live in a small state with a late primary so more than likely the choice will be made by the time I get to vote.
But I refuse to allow anyone to say that it would be better to vote 3rd Party or Not vote should someone's preferred democratic candidate does not win the election. Because as I see it - Voting for a 3rd Party progressive candidate in the general election or Not Voting pretty much is akin to helping the GOP win.
On Hillary Clinton's or Bernie Sander's absolutely worst day ever (and I respect some may feel one can get alot worse than the other), both of these candidates are a far cry better then having a President who wants to take away our civil rights, and create a new generation of Jim Crow laws in this country.
great white snark
(2,646 posts)Thank you well said.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)XRubicon
(2,212 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)The OP was over the top in the other direction?
Because it really really wasn't. The state of affairs it describes is simply, essentially, the status quo. And Clinton has given zero indication she intends to put any serious effort into upending that status quo.
Do you seriously not get that?
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Do you seriously not get that?
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...is that the economic and political environment we currently enjoy is still to large degree a product of Reagan era policy implementations which have never been undone.
Do you disagree?
I also seriously believe Clinton has expressed no interest in upending that situation or doing or advocating anything beyond minor incremental tweaks. If she has and I missed it by all means, point.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)But living under Clinton will not be the same as living under Reagan and I find the comparison of the two frankly pretty shitty.