Did Romney bring cheat notes into the debate?

[cleduc]

My sister called and pointed this out.

She tells me the debaters are provided with paper and a pen.

You can see the paper on each of the debaters podiums at the start of the video.

They're not supposed to bring notes into the debate.

It happens in the first 11 second of the video linked below

Watch Romney's right hand.

What's up with that?

I tried to check the rules to link them and couldn't find them on the site (they're probably there somewhere). Here's the link to the debates site:
http://www.debates.org/

Thoughts?

[fleur-de-lisa]

1. Ha ha ha . . . looks like he did!

I bet he wasn't counting on there being cameras at the rear of the stage to catch him pulling his cheat sheet out of his pocket! What a piece of sMitt!

[Life Long Dem]

227. He checked out who was looking

at the rear when he sneaked his notes out.

[bushisanidiot]

2. You're right! He brought a cheat sheet!

not surprised!

[Coyotl]

217. He brought his bird hunting gun for sure

Save Big Bird!

[MgtPA]

3. Either some notes, or that handkerchief he mopped his face with later.

[KurtNYC]

189. How far in is the face wipe?

Can't find it.

[MgtPA]

190. It's pretty far in, towards the end of the debate I think.

I remember watching it live when it happened. I haven't gone looking for it on the CSpan video yet.

[C_U_L8R]

4. He definitely slipped something out of his pocket

Can't imagine he'd be dumb enough to cheat with all the cameras on him.
But narcissists kind of roll that way.

[pnwest]

6. precisely! the rules are for everyone else, not them.

[underthematrix]

106. sociopaths also roll the same way

I'm sorry this video made me laugh because sometimes, I know it's not nice but I laugh at crazy people.

[valerief]

5. OMG, he did pull out paper from his pocket! What a sleazeball. nt

[MatthewStLouis]

7. Wow you got it! He was cheating. Brought his crib sheet and dropped it on the podium.

I say: wow! How could it be a handkerchief. I'd only pull that out when I needed it and then put it back in my pocket.

I suppose this is how spoiled rich kids get by in school as well as life. BY CHEATING.

FUCKING CHEATING!

[hexola]

8. 30 seconds after shaking hands with the President of the United States...

He cheats...

[rwork]

9. This

needs to go to Rachael or Lawrence.

[MADem]

10. He took something out of his pocket and put it on the dais. nt

[Jennicut]

11. Watched it several times.

Looks like folded up paper, not a hankerchief. But I could be wrong.
Not going to be surprised if Romney cheated.

[nc4bo]

12. ohoh - well that can't be good. Certainly not fair unless POTUS also had a cheat sheet.

What a weasel.

[nc4bo]

15. MSNBC just highlighted that it was a hankie - made a joke about keeping the powder dry or

some such.

Then said oh he didn't need it - well yea he did. He wiped his upper lip with it.

How soon M$M forgets what's on the tape.

Journalism FAIL proudly on display.

[2pooped2pop]

22. maybe a hankie or maybe cheat notes in a hankie. Take a look

It looks like he is unfolding it here in the beginning. But look at the end of this tape, he is messing with it again but looks like he kind of hides it.

Earlier this am, hubby told me that he saw at the very end, Rmoney going to the podium, getting a paper and then seemed to not know what the hell to do with it. Started to put it in his pocket a couple of times, but decided not to. Eventually gave it to his son, who quickly put it in his pocket. Hubby says he was nervous as hell. This was before he knew of this post.

We need to find the tape that has the entire ending on it, after the Obama's leave.

[nc4bo]

27. Oh yes - I completely missed the end. Honestly, I wouldn't put ANYTHING past Romney

We already know what he's capable of and what he's willing to do.

Why would you hand a used hankie to your son?

We need some high definition, enlarged photos that's what we really need.

Thanks for dropping even more info on this!

[bushisanidiot]

29. Excellent catch!

I want to see video of the ending, which now looks to be more damning than seeing him put the cheat sheet on the podium.

[bushisanidiot]

32. At 1:32:39 he goes back to the podium to get his cheat sheet

[link:http://www.c-span.org/Debates/Events/Presidential-Debate-on-Domestic-Policy/10737434292/|

[nc4bo]

34. Oh dear! Now why would he pick those papers up, POTUS did not at least not that I noticed.

And, what's up with the hot potato treatment of those papers?

Not Cool Mittie.

[hamsterjill]

58. And....he first tries to put them in his suit jacket pocket.

See my earlier post below about men and handkerchiefs in pants pockets.

At the point near the end of the video, when Romney goes back and picks up the papers off of the podium, you see him TWICE try to put the papers in his suit jacket almost instinctively, before he finally hands them off to his son (I guess that's who it is).

My guess is that these papers cannot go into his suit pocket because that's where the now used handkerchief already is - - -where most men would normally keep a handkerchief.

But at the beginning of the video, he takes something out of his trouser pocket. If that's where he routinely keeps a handkerchief (i.e., his trouser pocket) wouldn't he put it back in the same place?

So IF the handkerchief is what is keeping him from putting the papers into his suit pocket, I think this is more damning evidence that what he took out of his pants pocket at the beginning of the video was not the handkerchief.

Sorry...this sounds like a "who's on first" thing. But am I making any sense?

[nc4bo]

110. It makes sense......**attempting to remain objective**

The man has no problem lying just for the sake of lying. Lyin' for the Lord....pathological liar WHAT...EVER. Romney doing something like this hide-in-plain sight thing is so totally not out of the question. For someone like Mitt, it makes absolutely perfect sense.

I just want to know. Did he? Didn't he?

[gkhouston]

62. Well, if he spent the debate writing ugly things about the President, he wouldn't want to leave

that out. I haven't watched the clip, so I have no opinion on whether or not he brought notes; I'm just saying that he might have written shit down that he didn't want circulated, which is still bad.

[nc4bo]

64. If that were the case, I'm sure it wasn't a simple "DRAT" "DANG" or "dingleberry" scribbled on there

Not the way he was holding that grin most of the night.

Good explanation.

[2pooped2pop]

65. not good explanation at all

Look at the video. The paper is folded. The paper he was given to write notes on would be blank and unfolded.

He spent his time reading, not writing.

The paper looks like it might even be a typed print on it

and he obviously is hiding it both in getting it out there to use and in getting it gone in the end.

He folds it into what is probably his given sheet before attempting to put it in his pocket.

Those are not notes he took during the debates. Those are his cheat sheets.

[nc4bo]

66. Damn it.

I am doing my best to be objective, attempting to accept any and all logical explanations before kneejerking like I'm prone to do.

My mind is screaming FOUL through all the explanations.

I'm trying hard here!!

[2pooped2pop]

70. lol

We may still be proven wrong, but I'm thinking not.

[underthematrix]

108. If mittnocchio was grinning

we all know what he was writing on that piece of paper and ummm . . . that would kill any chances he has of ever holding public office. Probably should seek counsel from rick opps! perry

[TheDonkey]

156. Please watch the video if you want to make public your opinion of the video

Come on now. Once you watch it I think you will be surprised. I was thinking this was too bizarre to be true but you cannot possibly know if you don't even look for yourself.

[gkhouston]

159. If you'll finish reading the thread, I'll think you'll realize that I watched it hours ago

and that I think he carried away something stiff, like folded paper. The most recently posted slo-mo videos make it clear (to me, at least) that he also brought those papers with him. I guess when you change 95% of your positions at the last minute, it's hard to remember the details of which position you're supporting at the moment.

[Samantha]

236. I looked at the CSPAN link, and there does not seem to be any question that was folded paper

Last edited Fri Oct 5, 2012, 06:54 PM - Edit history (2)

Mitt Romney tried to put them into the inside pocket of his suit. When he could not make them fit, he did hand them to his son, who did not even look down to see what it was, it appeared the son didn't have to look because he knew, he kept his gaze where it had been before his hand accepted the papers, and he quickly slid them into his inside pocket. His eyes never even glanced down briefly to see what he was putting into the inside pocket of his suit. That indicates he knew he was holding a hot potato and could not get it out of sight quickly enough.

It seems cut and dry to me. Also explains why Mitt talked so fast.

Sam

[polly7]

243. Wow. I just watched that full screen.

Watch all of their faces ..... they did know, and he WAS trying to use Lehrer for cover. Watch Ann Romney's face as he's trying to keep Lehrer there and put the papers away .... she's staring at the papers like they're kryptonite.

[gkhouston]

244. I find myself wondering why he went back to the podium so quickly.

The shuffling at the end before he comes out to shake the President's hand would have given him enough time to cover pre-written notes with anything he'd written during the debate, or even with blank paper. So what's the rush? I don't see anyone making their way to his podium. He could have waited or sent one of his sons to collect his papers. It's like he wanted to have the papers still visible when talking to Lehrer, so he could get a charge out of putting one over on them.

[polly7]

247. I think the President was too quick over to shake his hand and Romney couldn't get the cheat notes

folded and hidden on his person, so he rushed out from behind the podium before Obama got there to him. And then, knew he had to get back to them before the debate aides, or whoever, came to pick them up. But yes, that's strange that he did seem to not care if Lehrer saw them when he'd been trying to stash them before. Maybe he had time to stash the cheats and fold up the paper that was provided, as cover ... I bet you're right.

(Of course, we both, all be wrong ... but I don't think so!)

[polly7]

278. This has absolutely not a single thing to do with Obama.

If a man cheats and lies, do you trust him for anything at all?

SUN SEP 23, 2012 AT 07:40 AM PDT
Craig Romney: My Dad Cheats & "That's What We Need in the White House."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/23/1135444/-Craig-Romney-My-Dad-Cheats-That-s-What-We-Need-in-the-White-House

In January 2012, Mitt and Craig Romney did a small rally in Plymouth, Iowa. At that rally, Mitt Romney admitted he tripped his daughter-in-law, who had just given birth, in order to win a family race.

CRAIG ROMNEY: ...And it was down to my wife and my dad over here.
ROMNEY: I tripped her.

CRAIG ROMNEY: And it was kind of in the home stretch in the run there. And she had a slight lead on him. And he said that in that moment, he decided he was going to win that race or he was going to die trying. And you see this fight to the finish, and he went for this -- he gave it everything he had. He gave it a good kick and he beat her in the end. And he did almost die trying, by the way.

He passed out in a lawn chair and we didn't see him the rest of the day. He barely made lot of life. But it's that type of hard work, it's that type of determination, I think, that we need in the White House.

The Atlantic Wire , January 31, 2012


Obviously, cheating is something that's not new to him.

[2pooped2pop]

38. He is hiding a paper within another paper.

The cheat sheet is folded into the other sheet.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4006759

[alvitar]

180. Mitt-ster Roboto

Has anyone noticed how stiff he is, both at the beginning just before he drops his cheat sheet on the podium, and at the end when he goes back to fetch it? He seems rather nervous to me. I can understand being nervous at the beginning, but why at the end?

[Why Syzygy]

237. The look on his face

as he faces the audience right after throwing his cheat notes on the podium SHOWS that he thinks he just got away with something.

[2pooped2pop]

33. not only that, we need to watch the entire thing

to watch him more closely. There may be other signs.

[DearHeart]

295. I hope this isn't stupid...

but take a look at Romney's pants. When both he and Obama are waving to the audience, Romney first raises his left hand and his suit coat raises with his arm going up...there are no creases on the left side of his pants. When he raises his right arm, and the suit coat raises up, you can see at least 2 fairly big wrinkles on the right side where his pocket might be strained a little due to having a small, square notepad of paper in it.

Watch it on You Tube and full screen...it could also be, I don't know, breath mints??

[ESDU]

303. Crease in pants

I noticed it too, but thought it would seem desperate to post it. Glad you did.

[DearHeart]

305. well, when one side is creased and the other isn't...

just seems strange to me. I don't know how anyone can sit and have creases only on one side of their pants.

Guess I am desperate...don't want Romney or his minions to get anywhere near the White House.

[bushisanidiot]

53. My guess is that MSNBC had an initial "safe" reaction

Last edited Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:14 PM - Edit history (1)

and tried to give romney the benefit of the doubt.

however, since there is ample video evidence that it was clearly a piece of paper, i would guess more will be made out of this story as more people start asking what was on the piece of paper.

[MgtPA]

13. If he did cheat, it wouldn't be the 1st time... from 2008:

[polly7]

77. Wow. Why would they let him get away with that?

Once a cheater ....

[Amimnoch]

14. Mittens wouldn't need cheat sheets,

Frankenstein looking freak probably has cochlear implants, and was having his buddies give him his talking points the entire time.

Really, for all the bullshit the right gives President Obama about using teleprompters, Mittens used a debating style he's never used before, and spoke in ways that is not normal to his pontificating character.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if he had a secret team feeding him each and every line.

[hexola]

16. There must be some high res photos out there - probably better fodder for speculation.

Right?

[hexola]

17. Iphone?

That new thinner Iphone 5 would make a great crib source...

[hexola]

18. Decent photo here

[nc4bo]

23. Doesn't look like any hankie I've ever seen - wish there was an overhead view! nm

[hexola]

24. we need to source the hankie!

When did he break that out and where did it come from?

[2pooped2pop]

30. enlarge that pic. There is much writing on it.

not clear to see but not the notes he was taking. In fact, Mitt does not appear to be writing anything, but reading , throughout the debate.

In addition, when you enlarge this photo, you can see the hankie corner that he probably hid it in.

Now to find that tape of what he did with it after the Obama's left the stage.

See this paper is prefolded. If it were a paper he had been given to take notes on, it would not have already been folded.

[hexola]

35. Here ya go

Not enough resolution to say...but this isolated it a bit..

[2pooped2pop]

39. yeah, see it is already folded.

Not like a sheet that he was given to take notes on would be.

[bushisanidiot]

43. Yes. There are creases both lengthwise and widthwise that were obviously there before.

it was a cheat sheet.

[2pooped2pop]

44. Not sure but that may be typing on that too.

I did not see him bring in a computer or printer, so I am thinking it might be a cheat sheet.

[cleduc]

91. Here's the thing with that photo above.

I see three white things:
1. the paper Romney was given to make notes
2. let's for now call it "the handkerchief" to the right of the paper (that may have something written on it)
3. Above the paper, towards the microphone, it looks like a white corner of something. I doubt that's a base for the goose neck microphone because they're usually screwed down to minimize vibration issues and to help the goose neck function from a sturdy base. Maybe it's a piece of his official note paper discarded and pushed up.

Hard to tell for sure but to me, worthy of a closer look if we can find a better view.

[gkhouston]

96. The behavior at the end of the debate is more suspicious than that still.

Yeah, perhaps the still photo is of a handkerchief, but watch the clip elsewhere at the end of this thread from after the debate. Romney tries folding something white about the size of a legal envelope and then stuffing it into an inner breast pocket. He gives up and hands it off to one of his sons. Look how stiff the white thing is. No one would wipe their nose with something that stiff, not even if you bought your hankies for cheap at Walmart.

on edit: I'd like to see detailed video from when Romney wiped his upper lip during the debate. Where'd the hanky come from and where did it go?

[polly7]

99. Yes, and did you see the look the son who took them gave to his brother?

And how Ann was looking at ... whatever it was, when Mitt was shaking hands? Something was strange, there.

[bushisanidiot]

184. Yep. Once Ann saw mitt had the notes in his hand she couldn't stop looking at it

And the very creepy stare the son had toward his mom when he slid the paper into his coat pocket made me think Ann and the sons knew exactly what that paper was.

[Maine-ah]

103. to me it looks like a small notebook to the right of the paper

a small ringed notebook could have fit in his pocket quite easily and resemble note cards - and that's what it looked like he was pulling out of his pocket in the beginning as well.

[cleduc]

19. I reported the question about this to the Obama Truth team

I did mention, in fairness so I wouldn't lead them astray, the possibility of it being a handkerchief. You don't want them hopping on something like this if it could turn out to be something easily proved wrong and then embarrasses the campaign - doing more damage to their cause.

The truth on this is what matters. Too bad Romney never applies that to the things he tells the American people. I was upset and appalled by all his dishonesty in that debate last night - even though I've been aware for some time that's his modus operandi.

Once again, I'm also disappointed in the media for that and have been for years. It's a pretty simple concept - the media should arbitrate for the truth. For example, Andrea Mitchell's fact checking said that 54+ seniors would lose nothing under Romney's Medicare - ignoring the $600 in drugs, annual wellness checkup, pre-screening for cancer, heart disease, etc and some therapy for chronic conditions like diabetes.

I have the utmost confidence that if the American people are provided with accurate facts and the truth, they'll make the right decision 100% of the time. I can cut any candidate a little slack for putting the best face on something with some spin but Romney constantly crosses that line and did again last night and the President does not.

I have looked very closely at these issues for this. In my opinion, Romney lied frequently to the American people last night but the media overlooks that and rewards him with a big win. There's something terribly, terribly wrong with that. America deserves better.

[2pooped2pop]

40. I hope you also pointed out his hiding it at the end.

This needs to go far and wide. Let others decide what it is too.

[SoapBox]

20. It looked like paper...not fabric.

But hey, if MSNBC says it was a hanky, I'll go with them.

[JohnnyBoots]

21. He went back and got the notes after the final

debate handshake and family meet and greet. C-Span has the film and I think I still have it on the DVR...

Is this written in the rules of the debate to not have any outside notes? If so Mitt needs to answer for this or at least provide an explanation. W was wired for a debate and the media did nothing so I doubt this becomes an issue or is addressed. Same old, same old sadly enough.

[bushisanidiot]

25. Footage of him going back to get it would be great to see!

post it if you can!

[2pooped2pop]

45. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4006759

[MatthewStLouis]

47. Amazing! Alot of folding and fussing of a mere notebook. What a cheater.

Here's a click-able link:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4006759

[hexola]

52. So, clearly he has no inner lapel pockets.

That lends credence to the hanky theory, unfortunately.

[2pooped2pop]

54. not a hanky.

Did you watch? Not a hanky.

[Faux pas]

204. I was looking really hard for that hankie

never saw it.

[tarheelsunc]

51. This is beyond suspicious

He obviously did not want anyone involved with organizing the stage to see that and he was so desperate to hide it away. To keep from having to deal with it personally, he just handed it to one of his sons.

[joshcryer]

122. Man, that's really fucked up. That's definite evidence he had something to hide.

The sheet should've been simply pick-up-able, no need to stand there folding and messing around.

[newuser9]

186. He hands it to son and says "Hide This"...check the audio

[TalkingDog]

196. Your ears are better than mine. All I heard was background noise.

Why don't you do that CSI thing and suppress all the chatter so we can hear what he really says?


Or maybe you can get an expert lip reader to give it a once over.

[CoffeeCat]

221. Also, when Mitt walks over with the papers...

...Ann looks at the papers--and does a double take.

She realizes what she's seeing--typed words.

Then, she says something that looks like---"We've got to get off the stage."

Then, she says something to her other son about...needing to go now.

She sees what Mitt just brought over.

She looks panicked.

[mwblueyarn]

248. Ann's response

Yup, she clearly looks alarmed and says something about "off the stage."
What a bunch.

[anneboleyn]

74. Shouldn't this be pointed out? (We should email the Obama camp)

[2pooped2pop]

297. it appears that all of the media has done it's most excellent job

yet again. They have looked at only the beginning where he takes it out, and since he did use a hankie at one time during the debate, it must be a hankie, to hell with those pictures of a folded, written on, piece of paper.

No one in the media, not even the left ,looked at the whole thing. They just brushed it aside as a hankie and now all are scrubbing their sites of any info except that it was a hankie.

Baghdad Bob news media. Even the left played Baghdad Bob's on this one.

I wish we had real media.

[2pooped2pop]

26. Read my post #22 There is more. n/t

[hexola]

28. Check out this "Memorandum of Understanding" from Bush-Kerry 04 debate...very specific.

www.c-span.org/pdf/memounderstanding.pdf

"No props, charts, diagrams or other writings, or tangible things may be brought into the debate"

[hexola]

31. More from 2004 rules - very specific about what goes on the podium and who puts it there

"Each candidate must submit to the staff of the commission prior to the debate all such paper and any pens or pencils and the staff of the commission will place such paper pens and pencils on the podium"

www.c-span.org/pdf/memounderstanding.pdf

[nc4bo]

113. There must be a list of rules somewhere for this debate.

**My personal promise remains in effect; to retain objectivity - no knee jerk reactions**

[hamsterjill]

36. How many men keep their handerchiefs in their PANTS pockets?

Seriously...something to consider. And I'm not sure that this is NOT a handkerchief that Romney takes out. But from his pants pocket? Most men that I know, when wearing a suit jacket,would have the handkerchief in the jacket pocket.

Am I wrong????? I am (seriously) just asking...

[bushisanidiot]

42. That's true. and how many men keep notes in their pants pocket instead of in their coat pocket.

i think they would keep such notes in their pants pocket if they are afraid of someone getting their hands on them.

[gkhouston]

63. When they've got a suit jacket available? None I know.

They either use the inside breast pocket or the outside pocket next to their dominant hand.

[louis-t]

202. I always keep a hanky in my pants pocket.

Even while wearing a suit. That's where my father kept his, too.

[Petrushka]

260. My husband always kept his handkerchief in his pants pocket, but NOT in a front pocket!

Handkerchief in left-rear pocket, wallet in right-rear pocket, keys in right-front pocket, loose change in left-front pocket.

[pacopete]

37. Romney's Typed Notes

Check the end of the debate (after the families go onto the stage). You will clearly see Romney return to his lecturn to retrieve some typed notes. He tries to place them in his coat pocket, but cannot. He then passes the notes to his son who places them in his coat pocket.

[renate]

114. thank you, and welcome to DU!

[tarheelsunc]

41. Obama needs to be equipped with a signal jammer for future debates

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Romney was being fed answers in a wireless device, so Obama should come in with a signal jammer, that would take care of that if it is an issue.

And that was definitely a piece of paper. Why would he keep his handkerchief on the podium on top of the provided notepad? If it was a handkerchief, he wouldn't have been so discreet in removing it from his pocket, which he only did when he was fully behind the podium. He was trying to be sneaky and got caught by the back camera.

[Amimnoch]

55. See Reply 14 above. I suspect much the same thing.

That was more than just being "prepared" and "well coached".

His responses definitely looked like they were being given to him live. Watch any primary debate with him against Newt, RP, Santorum and the others. His gestures are different. The way he transitions between his sentences. All very different.

[Politicalboi]

87. And make it echo back

So everyone knows, and it hurts Rmoney's ears.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

95. If Obama brought a signal jammer,

wouldn't that interfere with all the radio and TV apparatus?

[we can do it]

46. Here's my question. Why would a multi-millionaire worry about leaving a used handkerchief behind?

[TalkingDog]

195. P.O.E. Precious bodily fluids and all that.

Which, frankly, could be used if there was mucus in the cloth, to ascertain drugs in the system

Not as good as blood or sweat, but ....

[Digit]

250. DNA would reveal he is a lizard alien?

At least not human....

[verdin2]

48. Spam deleted by Behind the Aegis (MIR Team)

[MgtPA]

49. Rather off topic

[2pooped2pop]

50. k&r

lets get this out there. Let others help decide.

[stranger81]

56. This should be cross posted to GD.

Everyone who visits the site today should see this OP.

[2pooped2pop]

73. Go ahead and cross post it for us.

Last edited Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:01 PM - Edit history (1)

I agree it needs exposure. I went ahead and posted a new post to general with a link to this thread.

[whistler162]

299. Only if tinfoil hats are being passed out!

[nc4bo]

57. Made a clip of the end of the debate using C-SPAN's cool clip maker.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4006904

[bushisanidiot]

60. Well done!

and notice how Ann can't seem to take her eyes off of the piece of paper until she realizes leher is right there then she pretends be interested in him. also notice how ann says "we need to get off the stage". it's very easy to read her lips.

[nc4bo]

61. Do you have a program that can save the clip? I do not and wouldn't

mind if the clip was stored elsewhere.

You just never know if some server will fail and something gets "disappeared", you know?!

[bushisanidiot]

67. I don't know how to make clips and edit video

but what i think would be great, if someone could do it is this:

clip the beginning where the candidates shake hands slow motion the video to where mitt takes out his cheat sheet

then, at regular speed add the clip where he gets his cheat sheet from the podium after he finishes talking to the obamas.
in slow motion, show him walking back to his family and folding the paper up.
regular speed until leher leaves the stage.
slow motion while romney fumbles with cheat sheet and both of his sons try to take it from him.

[lillypaddle]

59. Whoa!

He sure did, that fucking cheater! We need to get this word out.

[KamaAina]

68. There was one point early on where I was sure he had the Bush earpiece

I forget exactly when, but he responded to something Obama said quickly -- too quickly.

[Bill USA]

69. looks like he tosses a folded piece of paper on the lecturn between 9 to 10 seconds into the tape.

don't most people pull a hankerchief out of their breast-pocket when needed? Would you toss a hankerchief onto the lecturn at beginning of debate just in case you needed it later??

[mnhtnbb]

71. Lying, cheating sack of shit. I hope this is reviewed by debate rules-keepers.

[bushisanidiot]

72. Pic of podium cheat sheets

at 0:09:47 from the original poster's video. i'm sure there are more screen shots to be made, but this is the first good view.

[IMG][/IMG]

[NYC_SKP]

85. KKKKKKKKKKKKRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!

[polly7]

88. There's definitely a piece of folded paper there, imo.

[IMG][/IMG]

[bushisanidiot]

94. agreed

i havent looked at the whole video. i stopped at this point and got the screen shot..i will look more tomorrow..im sure those pieces of paper are more visible in other shots.

[Hutzpa]

198. *whistles*

now this is much more convincing, there is definitely something there.

[nebenaube]

242. that

Is an iphone partially covered by a sheet of paper, you can see light reflecting off the screen.

[Tx4obama]

75. Yes! And then he unfolded it. n/t

[arcane1]

76. K&R for later!

:kick:

[ananda]

78. Yes, I saw it!

He sure did cheat.

[elleng]

79. Yes, no doubt,

unless it was a handkerchief, which more likely would have been in an upper jacket pocket.

[NRaleighLiberal]

80. clearly reaches in at the 9 second mark. no mistaking it.

[Hamlette]

81. it was a hankie, he used it to wipe his upper lip before closing statements

I think its an old fashioned guy thing. My dad always had one, I remember my mom ironing (how quaint). Don't see them much anymore except at funerals.

[Tx4obama]

84. It can NOT be a hankie. Because he UNFOLDS the paper. And the hanky he used later was folded.

When he wiped his upper lip he used a folded up hanky.

And the hanky wipe might have been just a ploy in case someone said something about the cheat sheet he tossed onto the podium.

[Dan]

82. hahhaha....no reason for that

liars never need to bring cheat sheets.... good liars can lie on the fly... while an honest man is trying to come to terms with the first lie, the liar has already got another lie ready to cover the initial lie...

Harsh as it seems, you must confront the liar or not deal with him/her...

[MrSlayer]

83. He pulled what looked to be a stack of index cards wrapped with a rubber band out of his pocket.

I noticed this last night when I watched the replay on MSNBC. You can't really see it in the video provided but I saw it last night.

[trayfoot]

86. It was a handkerchief

Mention was made of that by the commentators after the debate.

[2pooped2pop]

93. watch the beginning and the end of the vids

A hankie was involved but it was only to transport the cheat, I do believe.

[gkhouston]

97. +1. Particularly watch the end. It's hard to tell how stiff the white object is before the debate,

but afterwards? That's not just fabric, IMO.

[progressivebydesign]

104. why couldn't he get a hankie back in is pocket? And hand it to his son? weird. nt

[SamHarris2012]

118. That's one stiff handkerchief

Looks too stiff to just be a hanky.

[glinda]

206. Where did the hanky go? And if it was with the papers why

would you give your son a dirty hanky?

[BainsBane]

89. That kind of cheating doesn't help much

Even if it isn't a hanky, the advantage of that kind of thing is limited. It's like having notes in an essay exam. It may give you some details but doesn't help your performance overall. I don't think we need to make the kind of excuses that right-wingers always do. It wasn't Obama's night, but it's not the end of the world. We still have two more debates, and he does have a lead in the polls.

[bushisanidiot]

100. The larger point here is that Romney cheated

Which makes him look even more unpresidential than lying does.

[2pooped2pop]

105. It's not even about how much cheat sheets would help him.

It's more about whether he would be low enough to cheat and what that would say about a man who wants to be our president.

I am not looking at this as an excuse for Mitten's performance but as yet another example of the character of the man.

However, now that you mention it, I guess having a sheet full of numerical stats would have been really helpful in a debate that was so filled with numbers. Thanks for pointing it out for me.

[BainsBane]

123. Oh, he's a lying sac of Fox excrement

To be sure. You'll get no arguments from me on that point.

[lunatica]

181. Actually it's well know and no secret that they practice for hours and days on the debates

They come very well prepared. If you see the movie Game Changer about Sarah Palin it shows how they practiced with her and why she was vaunted as winning the debate. It's common. Everything they do and say during the debate is rehearsed until it becomes quite natural.

The same thing happens for soldiers. They rehearse a hell of a lot so when they go into battle their training takes over. I've heard lots of soldiers say that. They don't even have to think about what they're doing because their bodies just take over.

[Th1onein]

254. EXCUSES? For what?

The guy CHEATED, do you not understand that? This is the SECOND time the Repugs have CHEATED during a presidential debate. We don't need excuses, and we don't make them. But cheating is cheating, and should be called out.

[BainsBane]

255. Put your energy into turning out the vote.

Did you see Rachel Maddow skewer this conspiracy theory on her show? Romney lied his pants off, but Obama didn't call him on it. He seemed disconnected. It was not the Presidents best night. None of this complaining about cheating does Any good. Put your energy into turning the vote out.

[Th1onein]

256. I will put my energy where I see fit, not where YOU see fit.

I don't care what Rachel Maddow says. She can skewer what she wants to skewer. I saw the box and the lead to the earpiece W. used in the 2004 debates and NONE of the mainstream media bothered to report on that. None of them. I'm not going to rely on them this time, to report on Mitt's cheating, either.

This has NOTHING to do with the President having a good or a bad night at the debate. NOTHING. It has to do with the character of the man running opposite him for the highest office in this land. OUR LAND.

For you to characterize that as making excuses for our president, is just bullshit.

[BainsBane]

257. Okay, don't

Stay mad rather than helping the President win reelection. I don't see the point, but that's your concern. I see no evidence that he had anything but a hanky. But as I said, even if he did it wouldn't have helped much.

[Th1onein]

259. Listen closely: You do not determine for everyone, or ANYONE else, how they help

or don't help, the president win the election. Just because you don't see the evidence doesn't mean that scores of other people don't see it, either. We've seen this guy, and W. cheat in the debates. This isn't the first time, or the second time, it's the THIRD time.

There are reasons that they have rules in these debates--so that one candidate doesn't have an unfair advantage over the other candidate. When you bring a cheat sheet, or have an feed in your ear, it's cheating, and it gives an unfair advantage to one candidate over the other candidate. This doesn't mean that we are making "excuses" for our candidate. That is not the point. The POINT is that a candidate for the highest office in the land CHEATS and that says something about his character. The American people have the right to know about his character since he often holds our lives, literally, in his hands.

What this means is that we speak up about something when we see it. And it is not up to you, or to anyone else, to tell us not to speak up. This is a democracy, and we all participate in that democracy in ways that each one of us determines.

[2pooped2pop]

298. This has nothing to do with Obama's performance

and I'm pretty sick of people telling us what we need to put our time and energy into. I think we will decide that on our own and I think that we can handle more than one single topic.

If, and I think he did, rRmoney cheated, it shows the character of the man who says "trust me, Just vote me in with no facts, then trust me that I will do what is best for you"

Bull fucking shit. If you have to pull a junior high school style trick and cheat at the debate for the Presidency of The United States, then you are not fit for that position. Period.

No one is saying that Obama failed to perform to our expectations because Mitt cheated. We are saying "did that mother fucker cheat?" and we have the right to know.

[ohheckyeah]

90. Is there a CSPAN video

that will show where he got the hankie from when he wiped his face?

[Sedona]

92. What's to stop him from hiding notes in the hanky

PS I pointed this out last night as soon as it happend and all I got was crickets and a naughty unfunny joke.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251117061

[HuckleB]

98. kick.

[AzDar]

101. Lie , cheat, and steal...

The Republican way.

[trailmonkee]

102. he was super sneaky about it too

[tavalon]

107. OMG

He did throw something on the lectern. That weasel cheated!

[southern_belle]

109. that man makes me sick!

I hope he's caught!

[Kablooie]

111. It was a package containing Sarah Palin's hand.

[gkhouston]

121. Thread win! n/t

[Generic Other]

112. Needs to go viral folks

Who do we write to complain about it? Commission on Presidential Debates? Anyone know how to contact?

[nc4bo]

115. I'd love to see a set of rules for the candidates...

if there were/are any.

Been going through the CPD and not having much luck. Mostly general information and my eyes have gotten tired.

Rules would help here. This may be nothing or something.

I don't like mysteries.

[hexola]

128. Apparently, the rules are confidential. The 2004 MOU (Rules) was leaked and is online.

Some of the 2008 might exist also - but I havent seen it yet.

Link to 2004 rules is upthread...

[hexola]

129. Under the 2004 rules, even the hanky would be a breech.

"No tangible objects"

[nc4bo]

132. Thank you for the explanation hexola!!

I had no idea and you saved me from searching endlessly for something that doesn't exist for us!

[renate]

116. hmm. in the small version, it sure does look like index cards or a densely folded bunch of notes

When he tossed it onto the lectern at the 0:11 mark, it fell like it had some heft. And I was all

But when I watched it full-screen, it looked like a handkerchief to me. Just my opinion of course. But the regular and full-screen views do look pretty different.

[SamHarris2012]

117. That's one stiff handkerchief

If it is a handkerchief, its super starched or has something stiff in it.

[animalcrackers]

119. Playing devils advocate

But maybe he doesnt have breast pockets sewn into this jacket? Just a thought

[jberryhill]

172. That would explain the behavior at his end

And the reason not to have pockets is to avoid putting things there that would detract from the impression that he's always just been starched and ironed.

[glinda]

211. That would be convenient as is to hand off the evidence.

[sunflowerseed]

120. Has anyone sent this to Rachel?

[MgtPA]

125. I did this afternoon

[We People]

165. Thank you for doing that!

I noticed this when I saw the clip of them coming onstage on the rerun of Rachel's show about an hour ago.

Mitt and his party will do anything to cheat and win, won't they... and they're barely hiding it. I think it gives them some kind of sick thrill not just to win, but to get away with it.

[hrmjustin]

124. It can never be proven, or to be more accurate the media will not try to prove it.

[ywcachieve]

126. Yes, he did slyly pull out a paper from his right pocket and slyly place it on the podium.

and he opened it up, slyly of course. Did he not know there are cameras trained on the rear of the podiums?!...LOL

[hexola]

127. One problem - it looks like the entire right half of the audience could see this clearly.

So - not as covert as it may seem from this view...

[gkhouston]

166. I disagree, after having seen the slo-mo version. Romney doesn't dig into his pocket until he's up

to the podium. If someone in the audience had been looking for it, they might have seen it, but I doubt many were focusing on his hands. Even if they'd noticed something, they might have not known that bringing notes isn't allowed.

[ywcachieve]

240. Exactly.

[byronius]

130. After reading this post, I must say that I am inordinately proud to be part of this place.

Goddamn. People paying ATTENTION.

That fucker! What a slimy dickhead! Pardon my French!

[litbrit]

131. A Cheater Exposed in 8 Frames

I took screen-grabs from the video and made an eight-frame montage of Romney as he approaches the podium with his back to the audience (but the smile still frozen on his face), reaches into his pants pocket, casually tosses his folded paper onto the podium on top of the supplied paper, and proceeds to unfold it. While watching the video, I noticed that President Obama, at that point, was still looking up and out at the audience, his hands clearly visible in front of him and his podium containing only the sheet(s) of paper.

Please feel free to share anywhere, if you're so inclined.

Click to enlarge:

[blue neen]

133. Whoa!

For some reason I'm not able to enlarge the pictures. I'd love to see this in a larger format.

Is there something special I need to click on? Thanks!

Oh, and welcome to DU!

[litbrit]

138. How do I upload a photo?

HELP! It's actually much bigger, but I just used the Picasa URL and it came out small. I've only posted here a few times before. It's a great graphic--you can get it at my twitter profile @litbrit.

[nc4bo]

139. Try this.........link.

http://tinypic.com/

[SamHarris2012]

136. I can't click to enlarge either.

So I copied it and tried to enlarge it. That no worky either. It gets all fuzzy.

[SamHarris2012]

134. Take it from a sneak but Romney looked sneaky as heck...

Everything about this "handkerchief" was sneaky as heck.

How he slyly pulled it out.

How he slyly tucked it away right before he left the podium to greet his family.

How he slyly retrieved it.

How he slyly handed it off to his son. Even that looked like he did that 1000's of times before. His son acted like it was situation normal, hide the evidence. Look at that dudes face when Mitt hands him those papers. He didn't even look at it. Just grabbed it and quickly tucked it away

[nc4bo]

135. Multiple passes, slow motion vid capture. What say you DU?

[SamHarris2012]

137. Best evidence yet!

That is no handkerchief! Look at the edges. Its paper folded into four squares. How the heck does a hankie stay folded like that in someone's pocket? He had it deep in his pocket. No hankie stays that flat and that straight deep inside a man's pocket.

[animalcrackers]

145. Errr, anyone having problems watching this?

Says I need to DL flashplayer and yet I can watch other YT vids....

[gkhouston]

153. That flopped down like a piece of folded paper, not a hanky.

Can you do the end of the debate, when he goes back to collect it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

276. Exactly.

That is a piece of paper.

[Cracklin Charlie]

162. this video nails the cheat to the wall!

[2pooped2pop]

177. this is great

Can u do one for the end when he retrieves the paper and tries to put it in his pocket before handing it off to his son?

[nc4bo]

187. Sorry 2p2p, not my video......was trolling Google links and lucked out!

Hopefully there will be more finer tuned vids coming out!

**I'm still in full objective, non-knee jerking status but it's getting real hard to maintain yall!**

[Richard D]

213. Check 1:19

There's something very weird about the back of his jacket as well. A horizontal line. Almost looks like a box under his jaclet.

[litbrit]

141. Mitt the Cheat, in 8 Frames (3rd attempt, hope this works!)

[nc4bo]

142. Looking at all your series of stills then check out the photo upthread and see the paper w/something

written on it on Mitt's podium - those papers aren't blank white sheets of paper like the ones on BObama's podium. It actually looks like he has multiple sheets spread out neatly in front of him.

We could really use an overhead camera right now!

[glinda]

208. Definitely something folded. Why is his Podium so full of stuff?

[Rhiannon12866]

143. Great job!

Thanks for posting this and a belated welcome to DU!

[nc4bo]

144. Yes yes - forgive my rudeness!!! Jumping in under Rhiannon to say Welcome

and wonderful job putting that together!!

[blue neen]

146. Amazing.

Mitt the Magician and his sleight of hand.

Thank you so much for posting this!

[litbrit]

147. My pleasure

...and thank you for the warm welcome, everyone.

[TroyD]

169. Get the word out!

I have sent your screencaps out to friends who have posted them on Twitter and on other political boards around the Net.

Make sure the story gets out into the mainstream media and that the Obama campaign draws the general public's attention to it as well.

If Mitt was cheating, it needs to be EXPOSED!

[bushisanidiot]

183. The last screen shot

Looks like he is putting something under the paper that was on the podium. My guess is that he slid the paper out when he needed it and kept it hidden from view the rest of the time.

[MgtPA]

151. No one here is lying

[Indpndnt]

160. Handkerchief is a big word. Good for you!

Enjoy your very brief stay here in the land of reality.

[JTFrog]

193. LOL

How did that get hidden but MIRT not show them the door?

Someone forgot to check TOS.

[MgtPA]

149. Daily Kos has picked up on this too

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/04/1140213/-Did-Romney-Cheat-Vid-You-Decide

[Cha]

164. Thanks, MgtPA

341 say mitt brought notes to the debate.. way ahead of a hankie.

[SEMOVoter]

150. Okay, when Cheater-Gate hits the mainstream, what excuses can we expect to see on Letterman?

Okay, when dirty debate Cheater-Gate hits the mainstream, what creative explanations can we expect to see on Letterman for this?

Top Ten Things that Mitt Romney Most Likely Was Hiding on the Podium During the 1st Presidential Debate:

10.) It's a sam'mich, delicious flat panini sam'mich because of low blood sugar.
9.) Pokemon trading cards, a good luck gift from Herman Cain
8.) Business cards of investors that will bail on further campaign contributions if Mitt "doesn't ring the bell" during the debate.
7.) Dirty playing cards. All the hearts are missing, because reasons.
6.) Inspirational quotes from Ann. Now scented with victory, rude interruptions and aggression.
5.) Cell phone wrapped in a kerchief so Paul Ryan can listen in.
4.) A package of flattened zingers. Raspberry is very good, but Little Debbie is always a fav in the heartland.
3.) A teeny-tiny copy of 10 years of tax returns.
2.) Neatly folded amended return that corrects contributions and overpayment of taxes in 2011.

and the number one thing that Mitt Romeny most likely was hiding on the podium.....

1.) A chick fil a job application for Big Bird.

[gkhouston]

155. LOL!

Welcome to DU!

[SEMOVoter]

158. Thank you! Glad to read everyone's comments.

I hope that didn't offend. When this cheater-gate thing hits, and OH how I want it to so badly. I hope Mitt gets mocked in the socks for it.

[Indpndnt]

163. Omg.

[TheDonkey]

167. Bravo! nt

[aquart]

231. Excellent.

Although the phone might be because he thought he could call for outside help on a tough question.

[SEMOVoter]

246. LOL, good point

"Hello, this is Mitt, the guy on the top of the ticket...."

[litbrit]

152. Looks like the paper/notecard-stack has rings

With the photo sharpened, you can see rings, as one would use with notecards, or perhaps a small notebook. It's a bit smaller than his jacket pocket (which gives scale), and I think it was wrapped in a hanky, which he unwrapped in frames 7 and 8 of my montage, where it looks like he's unfolding a paper. He *was* unfolding something...the hanky, which concealed the notecards/notebook. Look:

[TheDonkey]

154. This makes me sick to my stomach. He threw a "cheat sheet" on the podium with shit eating grin

Not only does he throw out these notes and awkwardly unfolds them immediately after but also he scurries back to the podium to collect all his notes, fold them, and pass them off to his son.

Where these mementos? Because the final is coming up tomorrow? It looks very bad for Romney. I hope MSM look into this as well as the Presidential Debate Commission.

[hexola]

157. Doesn't it seem like he goes to his other pocket once behind the podium?

Look at his left arm...that really looks like a move to the other pocket.

[We People]

161. Why are we not surprised??

[tblue37]

168. I think it's his hanky--for his flop sweat. nt

[Cha]

170. Here's pics of mitt #1 through #8 doing something at the podium..

Someone commented that it reminded her of when he was Gov..scrubbing all those hard drives.

http://theobamadiary.com/2012/10/04/chat-away-67/#comments

[Tinksrival]

171. I sent my feed back with links

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/letters.html

PBS might be afraid to accuse Romney in light of Mitt's threats to Big Bird. (Can't believe I just typed that! How ridiculous!)

Put in your feedback....Maybe somebody cares Maybe Jim Lehrer cares about being played a fool by that rich brat.

[jrr3005]

173. an electronic device

Yes, he is a cheat and a liar. I work in electronics, I think he was being fed his lines/lies. His handkerchief could have easily contained an electronic device.

[ArkilokusJames]

174. Immediately after the debate, Romney fumbles with the papers on his podium before stepping out...

...to shake Obama's hand.

Watch from 1:31:14 to 1:31:20.

http://www.c-span.org/Debates/Events/Presidential-Debate-on-Domestic-Policy/10737434292/

Not a smoking gun, it is another rather suspicious circumstance. Why would he be so eager to get those papers out of sight unless he had something to hide?

[ArkilokusJames]

175. Here's a clip

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4007887&newclip

As soon as the debate is over, it looks like Romney tries to put something away, realizes he won't have time, then steps out to shake hands with Obama.

[2pooped2pop]

178. can we isolate any ot those pics?

It looks like quite a little bit of stuff he is messing with there but I don't know how to go through frame by frame to get the best pic.

[glinda]

210. Look at his hand gestures. What is he bundling up?

[bushisanidiot]

280. some pics of romney leaving lecturn then going back

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

Ann tries to take notes
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

[Waiting For Everyman]

294. In 2 pics it looks like HEAVILY TYPEWRITTEN PAGES -- I didn't see that before.

It's the 2 pics after the debate where Romney returns back to the podium and Michelle (blue dress) is standing in front of him. What he's picking up is definitely papers, and they look like close-spaced typing. Plus, the type pattern is different in each pic, which had to be different pages.

What I can't understand though is, how did he read them? And he didn't look down much?

[ESDU]

304. He did look down and refer to his notes!!!

Romney did look down and refer to his supposedly blank hanky several times - before each bullet point in the beginning. I'm sure much more but I would need to go through the whole video again. That's the type of president I want, someone who needs to consult his hanky before speaking.

[2pooped2pop]

308. I thought he did look down as if reading pretty frequently

But haven't rewatched to see for sure.

[2pooped2pop]

309. In the pics where he retrieves his papers

He has two papers in hand, which appear typed or he took some very precise notes, there is yet another white item down on the podium. If lets say that those two papers actually are the ones he was given to take notes on (and a big if, I think) then what is still on the podium that is white? His hankie? So he put his hankie into the folded papers? I don't think so.

thanks for posting these.

[FrenchieCat]

179. This guy is not just a serial liar.....

but he's a fucking cheater too!

[Sunlei]

182. ask him (& the son) directly what he took out of his pocket before and handed to his son after n/t

[marlakay]

281. The question is if hanky

Why would you give a dirty hanky to your son? Even that says a lot to me.

[ben8jam]

185. Romney cheat notes zoomed in a slow mo!

[Native]

188. is that his left hand moving to open the hanky after his right hand throws it on the lectern?

[hexola]

201. Or is he getting something out of that pocket?

Maybe that's when the actual hanky comes out...

[glinda]

212. That has a funny "middle" bounce to the object.

Appears as though the edges fall after the middle part.

[a2Dem]

233. You can hear something bouncing

The microphone on the podium clearly picks up the sound of this object landing. No way is this just a handkerchief

[Berlum]

191. Moderator Jim Leher needs to make a public statement about this

Romney needs be be called out publicly for cheating and breaking the rules he agreed to abide by.

Shamefully low Republican "values" - as usual.

[nc4bo]

192. Good - it's beginning to hit M$M. Now they can ask Romney what it was he was doing before and

after the debate!!!

Good that M$M and Mitt realize that every damn thing they do is being watched!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251121638

[Texin]

194. Whoa!

I had watched the other video clip (the slomo one) and it was harder in that one to tell what he did. But this one clearly shows him unfolding that handkerchief and moving something out of it and folding it back up. At least it appears that way to me. Since he made a point about using the handkerchief in the debate he would be able to have some plausible deniability if asked about what he removed from his pocket. And it would be pretty easy to just push those notecards (because they do look like they could be 3x5 cards) into a sheaf of "notes" that he supposedly could take during the course of the debate, fold them back up and put them into his pocket.

I know that men who carry handkerchiefs usually put them in their trouser pockets - but guys that wear suits usually put them in one of the inside pockets of their coats - and it would have been quite obvious to viewers that he was pulling something from the inside of his coat. He didn't do that. He pulled whatever this was from the front pocket of his trousers - which kept his hand movement behind and below the lectern and wouldn't have been seen by anyone in the audience or the viewers. Too bad he didn't seem to realize that a camera might be place behind the lectern....

[upanddowny]

197. The Romney campaign says it was a handkerchief

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/10/05/no-mitt-romney-did-not-bring-cheat-notes-to-the-debate

[nc4bo]

199. I bet they do and of course they would.

Romney has told many people to just simply "trust me". Well we don't and won't just take your word.

Prove it then I'll be satisfied.

[uppityperson]

200. Of course they do. Look at this vid where he retrieves it. Awfully stiff for a hanky.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/4006759

[Indpndnt]

203. And he had his son take it and hide it in his pocket at the end?

That's what they're going with?

[gkhouston]

224. Once you become uber-rich it's important to maintain the illusion...

that your shit doesn't stink and you have no boogers.

[w8liftinglady]

205. It's now on the Opinion Page of the dallas morning News

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/10/ryan-forecast-a-debate-about-choice-and-romney-delivered.html/?fb_comment_id=fbc_422261424502393_4186890_422572867804582#f3ca17ce39bb114

[bushisanidiot]

223. It's also here - chicago cbslocal

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/10/05/upon-further-review-mitt-romney-may-have-cheated-to-win-the-debate/

[Old and In the Way]

207. 32,360 thread views.....

Can you say....going viral!?

Congrats and welcome to DU!

[NightOwwl]

209. I love DU

but hate when it sounds like the left-wing version of Drudge.

It was a hankie. Nothing more, nothing less.

[madmax]

214. A hankie

perhaps. One can write on fabric. In high school back in the day, I cheated by writing answers on my thigh.

[Coyotl]

215. CAUTION: This thread is being propped by first posters

Statistical anomaly or red herring promotion?

[CoffeeCat]

222. I'm wondering the same thing too...

I think everyone is quite concerned about what is happening here.

You know damn well that Karl Rove would love to have a repeat of Bush's/AWOL Dan Rather situation. We would look like
sour-grapes losers.

Seriously...someone needs to take a look at the raw footage that rolled the entire time during the debate. Then frames need to be zoomed in on, to see if that was a paper (and not a hankie) and if the paper had writing on it.

With our technology, we can surely zoom in to ascertain whether or not it was paper/hankie--and whether or not the paper had writing or typing on it.

Also--Romney's actions and behavior when he is first at the podium is important. Is he seen unfolding that paper??? The raw footage that was rolling behind him would show this.

Also, I'd like a lip reader to examine what was being said at the end of the video. Could the sound be enhanced? I saw Romney come over to his family at the end of the debate. Ann looked at what was in his hand. She clearly did a double take. She said something like, "We've got to get off this stage" and she seemed panicked. She said something else to her other son...about going now. The sound needs to be enhanced.

Surely--with all of the technology we have out there today--those things can be done. Until that happens, we don't know what we have, although it surely does not look good for Romney.

However, we have to be careful--because going down this road opens up the potential for the general public to view Obama supporters as sore losers who are grasping at straws. I sure as hell don't think that. However, if you can't prove this, you leave yourself wide open for a variety of bad spins.

I can't wait for this to be resolved, and I am betting with our technology and with the publicity surrounding this--we will have a very clear answer before the day is over.

[Coyotl]

226. Don't let this be the backlash trick that makes Mitt's lies fade into obscurity.

If this is a trick, it is designed to overcome the damage caused by Mitt's lying, to try to make LIAR accusations seem like unfounded sour grapes.

[2pooped2pop]

300. yes we should all sit in fear of the republicans and what they think of us

Bull fucking shit. The dems just now for the first time in ten years grew some balls. I think time for worrying about what the mother fucking republicans who want to destroy the country, thinks of us is long past.

Fuck them all.

[Coyotl]

302. Critical reasoning is a cerebral function

not a crotch function

[2pooped2pop]

306. well, they have sure been blowing it out their ass for years.

Must have confused me.

[SamHarris2012]

225. I signed up last night...

Because I never thought someone needed to cheat to win a debate. Plus, DU was the only ones talking about it. I wanted to talk about it also.

Probably the same for most first timers here.

[cleduc]

232. I started the thread while on the phone with my sister

literally typing as she spoke because I was busy with work.

I figured folks here could help sort it out - it would be of interest and bring my sister some peace of mind that it would get looked at.

This morning, she emailed that someone at Daily Kos had linked to this thread.

This afternoon, she reported that the Daily Kos thread had over 10,000 shares. This thread has over 1400 tweets. I also saw the thread linked to a news story. So I guess that's how it attracted some visitors.

I checked on google earlier today and this thread popped up near the top of a search for "Romney debate cheat note" so some folks may have been attracted that way.

There's nothing sinister going on that I can see. My sister saw something. I started the thread to ask a question on her behalf. And further down in this thread, I encouraged caution in reaching conclusions without proof so we didn't embarrass the Obama campaign (that my family and I have absolutely nothing to do with).

Hopefully, that helps explain some of what has gone on.

Regardless of how the question ultimately gets answered, in light of how things looked on that video, I think it was fair to ask the question.

[politicaljack78]

216. My mom just told me...that Ann Romney had a pre-debate interview

on CNN with a reporter named Gloria, the first lady was also interviewed at the time by a Jessica...Ann Romney had indicated that her husband had taken some notes on what he wanted to say during the debate, not saying this is a smoking gun, but it would be interesting to take a closer look into this. Anyone handy in finding the pre-debate Ann Romney interview.

[cleduc]

235. I have not re-listened to it ye but below is the link

[Digit]

251. Can someone with a stronger stomach listen to this for the ones of us who get nauseous?

I only made it to 4 seconds.

Thanks, I owe ya!

[politicaljack78]

253. I love my mom, but that was a wild goose chase

Now excuse while I take acid reflux medication. Sadly, she as a spouse does not realize that myth does not care about 47% of the people because of his business experience. He will downsize the middle class to maximize profits for his cronies. The man has an elevator for his cars in one of his homes. She also mentioned briefly that he is destined to lead...scary and that his father would be proud of him. His dad was honest, Myth is anything buy.

[politicaljack78]

252. thank you so much. n/t

[ESDU]

293. Bullet Points of what transpired.

Here's my take:
1. Pre-meditated cheating. Ann prepared us by giving us his ritual of writing DAD on a note card and removing the watch. She did this in the event someone saw something weird that it could be explained by her pre-video.
2. Staff also was in on it as they said it was a handkerchief and low and behold Romney did appear to pat his face with one at the end of the debate so as if to say, "see - only a hankie folks!"
3. Staff 's account differs with Ann and the DAD note - oops.
4. Object was wrapped in a handkerchief. I thought it might have been an open planner laid out on the podium early on, but not 100% sure. Although the clearer pictures are pushing me back into that possibility.
5. He even appeared to unwrap it - who would unwrap a hankie?
6. Shortly after they began their debate Romney appeared to fidget around with his left arm - perhaps, to take the watch off? Again, another distraction move?
7. End of debate Romney was frantically trying to re-wrap the notes.
8. Family was panic-stricken when they realized Romney was holding the cheat notes in plain sight.
9. Romney even tried to keep Lehrer in front of him to hide the papers.
10. Then the most bizarre "get off the stage" cry from Ann.
WHY would Romney need to look down at his notes before spewing 'each' bullet point? Afte rall, the only thing that should have been on his podium was a blank notepad.
WHY is there such a big pushback against this? That alone speaks volumes. Don't give up on MSM.

[Paddy Ryan]

218. Not shocking that a liar would also cheat to win.

[madmax]

220. Welcome to DU n/t

[dogindia]

219. kick and Rec...twitter: #hankygate

l
m

[Life Long Dem]

228. Let him try to explain this one

[riverwalker]

229. here he spends 5-6 seconds

fiddling (hiding) something before stepping out from the forum to shake the Presidents hand. It's at about 1:00 on the video. The video says he is hiding papers in his left sleeve, I am not sure about that, it's not clear what he is doing. However, what could he possible be fiddling with for 5 seconds? Folding his used hanky?

[cleduc]

239. In fairness, I think he was putting his watch back on

at the end of that video (as opposed to slipping something up his sleeve)

[gkhouston]

245. That would make a lot more sense. I've seen countless people take their watches off when

they give talks.

[a2Dem]

230. Listen - you can hear

the notes landing on the podium. Go to post #185 and play it. A handkerchief doesn't make a sound like this.

[riverwalker]

234. hmmm quite a thud for a hanky

interesting

[polichick]

238. Has msnbc covered this yet?

[dogindia]

241. the daily beast on BeastTV has both clips both the begin and at end of debate

http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2012/10/05/did-romney-cheat-at-the-debate.html

[MFM008]

249. he probably had both notes and hankie to cover

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151271841048487.518790.520033486&type=3

showing how one of my dads old cloth hankies folds over when you take it out.

[marciasw]

258. All these pieces need to be neatly presented together

In order to get the full impact, or to make any conclusions, these film sequences need to be presented together:

1: The opening film sequence where he takes the item out of his pocket and places it on the lectern (with enhanced sound).

2: At the end of the debate, while he's still at his lectern...fussing with his papers...and perhaps stuffing something up his sleeve, and then scurries to get away from the lectern to shake Obama's hand.

3: Then when he goes back to the lectern and fusses for an unnatural amount of time to pick up the papers...folds them...tries to stuff them in his jacket pockets, and finally the handoff to the son...while Ann watches intently.

The footage CANNOT come from CSPAN because they have that blue bar at the bottom of their screen, blocking the view of the papers when he is folding them up. I DVR'd the debate on CBS, and the view is fullscreen, without the CSPAN type bar. I do not know if anyone besides CSPAN has the debate for download online though?

AND then, the STILL frames need to be presented, as those stills of the items on the lectern are the most conclusive evidence there is! Those stills are paramount, as there should be NOTHING that is folded on the lectern. There was a stack of blank white new paper already there. There would be no point, no reason to do any folding before or during the debate. Those still images SHOW in more detail that there were additional items on that lectern besides the original stack of plain white paper, and those stills clearly show fold marks, or some sort of break in the surface of the page, like a small, open notebook would. This is in addition to a hanky placed there.

ALSO, on the DVR'd version of the debate, it shows at the very end, when Obama's aide came back to his podium and grabbed his papers. It took ONE second. No fuss. He was grabbing a short stack of plain white papers with the President's scribbled notes. How long does it take to grab a short stack of flat paper when you have nothing to hide? Watch Obama's aid...it takes ONE second. Compare that with how long it took Romney to fuss TWICE at his lectern to get his papers folded up and clear his space.

All of that needs to be presented TOGETHER. PLEASE...someone with the tech savvy to do that, it's what needs to be done!

[nc4bo]

261. Rachel Maddow show called it.......meh

territory. I didn't see any of it but other DUers did.

I remain an objective skeptic but that's my prerogative. Mitties demeanor and actions look way too suspicious to just blow off to me.

Who knows, like Bush's earpiece, we may learn more in the coming months or years.

[polichick]

264. Unfortunately Rachel took a cheap shot because she wanted cover...

...to go after the jobbers thing.

She didn't even bother to cover Romney's behavior after the debate.

Usually love Rachel but she did shoddy work with this seemingly because it worked for her lead story.

[OllieLotte]

262. Are you kidding me?

President Obama lost the debate, big time. Stop making excuses for him. He'll do a lot better in the next one.

[allrevvedup]

263. Breaking the rules = cheating = fail. Romney flunked out.

Romney repeatedly broke the rules they'd both agreed to, not just by bringing notes if he did (and I think he did), but also by flagrantly ignoring explicit time limits and interfering with the moderator's attempts guide the discussion. And like any smart-ass acting up in an important oral exam, he failed.

So Obama won by default. And if you listened to what was being said, he also won on substance.

[polichick]

265. The OP doesn't conflate the two - interesting that you do.

[nc4bo]

267. LMAO - this is the newest RW response to the cheat. Can't address it so they deflect.

Not one person discussing cheat-gate has used it as an excuse for O's debate performance.

They tell on themselves so easily and don't even realize it

[polichick]

269. Even Rachel took that tack last night...

...when she used this issue as an intro to the jobbers conspiracy. She's usually much better than that.

[gkhouston]

283. I expect the MSM will, at the very most, report that there is speculation about "the hanky"

unless and until something a lot clearer and more damning turns up. Which might happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

[helpisontheway]

266. Come on..let's drop it!

It hurts me to say it but President Obama lost the debate. He allowed Romney to walk all over him. President Obama understands that that was the wrong strategy. Perhaps he will step up his game the next time around. I just hope it is not too late.

[nc4bo]

268. For the 5000th time, O's debate performance has absolutely NOTHING to do with this.

Where do you see anyone putting the two together?

[OllieLotte]

270. It's a polite way of ignoring the silly notion that Romney had notes.

I like sports and unfortunately never competed at a level that I would have liked to. I have learned how to win and how to lose. I respect people when they...or their sports team...are soundly beaten and can admit to it. No crying about field conditions, weather or the refs. Suck it up, admit you were beaten and try to do better next time. Having to listen to people blaming the loss on notes or Denver's altitude is embarrassing.

[allrevvedup]

271. Nevertheless, if you cheat, you lose the medals.

If it's later determined that you broke doping rules, for example, you lose the wins, as Lance Armstrong recently did:

Lance Armstrong stripped of 7 Tour de France titles, banned from sport
Published: Friday, August 24, 2012, 10:46 AM
http://www.oregonlive.com/tour-de-france/index.ssf/2012/08/lance_armstrong_stripped_of_7.html

In my view Obama won the debate on substance anyway, but who won or lost is a separate issue issue from investigating whether one of the players cheated.

[nc4bo]

272. You also choose to ignore what this is about. We are questioning Romney's character or lack of it.

It fits with Romney's whole personae.

Why is this such a difficult concept for some to understand?

Pretty basic stuff.

[polichick]

274. You're missing the point completely. This issue has nothing to do with winning...

...or losing. Like the 47% video, it shows who the real Romney is.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

279. It shows that he is sneaky

[2pooped2pop]

296. we watched as bush cheated and nothing was done

Bush is a mother fucker who never should have held any office. Now we see the same shit again. So fuck the idea that we are blaming Obama's failure to perform on Mitt's cheating. It is separate issues.

They cheating goes with the lying. And all of it goes to show the character of the asshole who wants into the White House.

We do not chose to shut the fuck up and sit down.

We do not care if republicans laugh, cry or fucking die for that matter.

We suspect that we have been snookered yet again and are fucking tired of it. We suspect that they will lie cheat and steal their way into the White House to finish off this country.

Oh, but let's just let everything they do drop. Let's all hold the high ground and accept what they feed us.

Bull fucking shit.

[gkhouston]

282. I see the two being connected by people who don't want us to speculate about the "hanky".

Don't think anyone else has mentioned the President's performance at all. And, as others have pointed out, this is about the sliminess of Romney, not about who won the debate.

[hexola]

273. I do not beleive he was trying to be secretive with the hanky toss - and why a toss?

I think - from the cameras - and audience angle, that he didn't have much of a chance of secretly depositing the note-laden hanky.
I dont think the back stage view video is a good frame of reference...looking from that angle makes it seem more like he was trying to be secret. He knows there are cameras there.

He (body/hands) would be more hidden once behind the podium - so why didn't he wait till he was behind?

I think he wanted the hanky to be seen. So it would be accounted for. And then he used it. Ok - yep its a hanky. This is all part of "the sell."

But why the toss? That is an odd maneuver. Wouldn't one simply take it out of their pocket and set it on the podium? Maybe part of some "taking the gloves off" swagger? Its odd.

But his behavior after the debate is what makes all of this pre-debate stuff seem so suspicious.

Remember - even if it was just a hanky - and he wasn't cheating...Under the 2004 Rules - "tangible objects" are not allowed.

A hanky is a tangible object.

Romney flaunted the rules...or "cheated" if you will.

I know it might seem petty to call the guy on hanky - but there is a reason there are rules for these debates.

And this is prime example of what can happen if you don't follow these rules.

I think if some more definitive evidence doesn't come forward in the next 48 hours - this theory will be done.

There has to be a good high-res photo or better camera angle out there.

[allrevvedup]

275. Not openly, but it was sly. Nonchalant in a studied way.

I get the impression that this is a guy who's cheated a lot, and given a lot of thought to the best way to give himself plausible deniability, and that's to a) hope no one notices, and b) if they do, have a plausible cover story, or in this case, cover hanky.

[jenmito]

284. Rachel Maddow covered this and said it was a handkerchief which she showed him using. Not to

mention-he lied confidently, changed his positions and avoided specifics easily, and sadly, Obama didn't call him on 99% of his lies. Obama also looked tired, nodding while Romney was lying and accusing him of things, and so Romney won the battle. But he'll lose the war once all of his lies are revealed.

[allrevvedup]

285. So what's to stop Romney from doing it again, with similar results?

Or Ryan? If Romney gets to bring notes and Obama doesn't, that puts Obama and Biden at a distinct disadvantage. As for Rachel, she's entitled to her opinion but at the end of the day she works for MSNBC. Here's a closeup of Romney's "handkerchief," posted by Polly7 in #88 above:



That doesn't look like a handkerchief to me, it looks like a collection of notes, lots of them. But did you see Romney scribbling during the debate to produce all this stuff? No, that was Obama who had to keep his head down and take notes, which we're told was a sign of failure. It wasn't, but if we give Romney a pass on this, he'll just do the same thing next time, and we'll hear the same damn criticisms of Obama's performance.

So it's important to get this straightened out before the next debate, which is on Thursday.

[marciasw]

286. This is not whining about Obama's performance at the debate

CLEARLY, this is NOT a photo of a handkerchief and a short stack of plain white papers (that were provided). This is NOT about Obama's performance, or Romney's performance at the debate. It is about the integrity and character, or lack there of, of a man wanting to be the leader of our country.

[jenmito]

287. I don't think he did it in the first place. They both had papers that they wrote on.

I saw Romney scribbling notes when Obama said certain things, but I saw Obama keeping his head down, nodding, etc. He lost the debate because he didn't call Romney on his lies, he didn't bring things up that he should've when given the perfect chance (like his overseas accounts, not releasing tax returns, etc.), and not looking Romney in the eye. I HATED to see that, but that's what happened.

Next debate is town hall format, and I bet Obama will do MUCH better. I just don't think it had anything to do with a handkerchief (or cheating).

[allrevvedup]

288. Okay. But he did something.

Personally I thought Obama won hands down, on style as well as substance, even though he followed the rules and let Lehrer change the subject. Romney on the other hand hopped in and gave himself lengthy last words that Obama couldn't rebut. But Obama kept his cool and carried on and won anyway. Picking on his head position is frankly dumb.

The pundits were going to give Romney the victory no matter what he did, that was clear in advance, but letting him get away with cheating -- and he cheated by breaking the procedural rules he'd agreed to, whether or not he smuggled in notes -- is a guarantee that pundits will sing the exact same song after Ryan/Romney pull similar flagrant stunts for the next three debates.

[jenmito]

289. I disagree.

I think Obama won on honesty, but that doesn't seem to matter, sadly, since many people don't bother to look up "fact-checking" sites to see Romney's lies. Romney became a whole new person Wed. night and Obama didn't call him on nearly any of his lies except for the $5 trillion in tax cuts, mostly for the wealthy.

Obama keeping his head down, not looking at Romney, and even seeming to nod in agreement often was a big deal. It made him look weak. The pundits, at least on MSNBC, were as disappointed with Obama as I was and many other Dems. were. I felt like Chris Matthews, Ed Schultz, and Rachel Maddow did. I still don't think Romney cheated. But he LIED repeatedly and wasn't called on it. Next time, hopefully, he WILL be.

[allrevvedup]

291. I understand. I watched it on C-SPAN

so I didn't get distracted by MSNBC commentators, who may have made it less easy to spot the fact that Romney repeatedly and flagrantly disregarded Lehrer's instructions, while Obama did not, which made a perceptual difference because it left a bunch of Romney's lies hanging that Obama didn't rebut simply because Lehrer wanted to move onto another topic, so when Obama SHOULD have had the last word, Romney would jump in with a bunch of lies, and Lehrer wouldn't let Obama refute them. Thus the unanswered lies.

All in all I was impressed with Obama's performance and disguested by Romney's. I expected rude but not that rude.

[jenmito]

292. Well...

they showed the debate uninterrupted on MSNBC. It's AFTER the debate that those I mentioned expressed their disappointment (which I felt, too). I think you're right on the point that Romney kept jumping in and interrupting Leher, and I heard quite a few women say THEY noticed it, too, and didn't like it. But the majority of those watching seemed impressed with him and his (new-found) positions.

[allrevvedup]

301. A better word might be "gaming."

By the standards of any high school or college debate, Romney would have been disqualified the first time he ignored the moderator. The second time he did it Lehrer would have called the debate. If he'd been caught with notes, and he would have been, he wouldn't have made it to the podium. And simply by playing by the rules Obama would have coasted to an easy early victory -- which, in my view and maybe his, he did.

But these AREN'T real debates, they're TV performances, and Team Wingnut games every weakness -- single moderator, unclear rules, no judges, perceptions controlled by pundits -- to figure out how to manufacture an appearance of "victory" that they can count on their media and polling affiliates to publicize. All very business like. So what's the point of crying about it, you may ask? Well, if nothing else to warn you that the same damn thing is likely to happen in the next three debates, as they've probably got similar ambushes carefully mapped out for each encounter, and you might as well be ready for them. But let's hope Team O outgames the gamers.

[nc4bo]

290. First time I've seen this particular close-up view of the hankie that really wasn't just a hankie.

He cheated the rules; he cheated the American People.

Mitt Romney has no ethics; lacks character; lacks a moral compass; lacks all the outstanding qualities it takes to become POTUS.

He is unqualified to be POTUS.

[GallopingGhost]

307. Romney's ideas deserve to have snot blown all over them. n/t