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GumboYaYa

(5,941 posts)
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:13 AM Oct 2012

Did Romney cheat to win the debate? Videtape evidence shows tha he did.....o

"The rules of the presidential debates are clear about not bringing outside notes and presidents and aspirants have followed the rule for decades.

Video of the first eleven seconds of the debate available on YouTube shows Mitt Romney reaching into his pocket at the moment he is out of view of those in front of him, he used the lectern as a shield, and removing what appears to be folded papers from his pocket."



http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/10/05/upon-further-review-mitt-romney-may-have-cheated-to-win-the-debate/

Dirty, lying, cheating scoundrel is generous to Mitt. It is kind of not fair to the dirty, lying, cheating scoundrels of the world.

Video proof here:

&sns=tw
40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Did Romney cheat to win the debate? Videtape evidence shows tha he did.....o (Original Post) GumboYaYa Oct 2012 OP
Any video proof of this? Nancy Waterman Oct 2012 #1
Sorry, I was trying to get the link in my post and failed GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #3
we'll need proof bluestateguy Oct 2012 #2
Here is the video GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #4
That's not going to be enough bluestateguy Oct 2012 #6
Canditaes are supplied paer and pen to take notes...I beleive that they are explicitly prohibited GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #7
I think the candidates can supply the paper and pen/pencil of their choice. hexola Oct 2012 #13
he picked them up at the end 2pooped2pop Oct 2012 #24
fumbled papers and 2 dawnec1957 Oct 2012 #34
I need to watch the whole thing again. 2pooped2pop Oct 2012 #39
What do you mean blind alley? cilla4progress Oct 2012 #30
Starting to hit M$M I see - good! Let them ask if Mitt cheated and/or explain nc4bo Oct 2012 #5
Problem is both candidates had paper to take notes on. It is not surprising that yellowcanine Oct 2012 #9
The Comission staff places the paper and pens - not sure they are supposed to retrieve them also. hexola Oct 2012 #11
Let Mitt & Co. answer for it then ~or~ lie about it. nc4bo Oct 2012 #12
Did the networks stay with the stage feed - or just CSPAN? hexola Oct 2012 #14
I don't know hexola - CSPAN almost always had complete coverage on the boring stuff before and after nc4bo Oct 2012 #17
Im be sure CSPAN stayed with it while they took phone calls. hexola Oct 2012 #18
I'm hoping someone has different angles on this. n/t gkhouston Oct 2012 #22
And we never saw him Politicalboi Oct 2012 #28
Has msnbc covered this yet? polichick Oct 2012 #25
It is not like he followed any of the rules of the debate, hollysmom Oct 2012 #8
Liar and cheater are two sides of the same coin GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #10
That's totally folded paper ... not a handkerchief!! Myrina Oct 2012 #15
Honestly, toddwv Oct 2012 #16
There's no way in hell they would've been dumb enough to take that size of a piece of PAPER up patrice Oct 2012 #35
There's a bunch of photographers on the right - there must be some solid HD evidence. hexola Oct 2012 #19
Why the hell would he need a cheat sheet... NightOwwl Oct 2012 #20
Maybe he was trying to keep the lies consistent for a few hours aletier_v Oct 2012 #27
STOP THIS SHIT PLEASE!!! smorkingapple Oct 2012 #21
Two things can be tru at the same time and there is no reason to get angry about it. GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #23
begone, R&RoboTroll aletier_v Oct 2012 #26
Margins consist of people who know one whole hell of a lot less about it than you do. Put yourself patrice Oct 2012 #31
I say again: GOPers don't care if he's a cheater: other voters do! /nt MatthewStLouis Oct 2012 #40
Would a pathological liar be too ethical to cheat? Cleita Oct 2012 #29
Bain actively promoted a culture of lying about the competition and Rongny was known to patrice Oct 2012 #32
I noticed it as it happened. marezdotes Oct 2012 #33
Even if it was a hankie, you can write on silk quite nicely, especially with certain fabric finishes patrice Oct 2012 #36
and then he... dawnec1957 Oct 2012 #37
Sorry DUers. This is a non-starter. longship Oct 2012 #38

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
2. we'll need proof
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:16 AM
Oct 2012

The bulge in Bush's jacket in his first debate in 2004 turned out to be a blind alley. So evidence is needed.

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
6. That's not going to be enough
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:20 AM
Oct 2012

Candidates are allowed to use blank paper to take notes in the debate. We would need to see that there was stuff written on that paper beforehand.

GumboYaYa

(5,941 posts)
7. Canditaes are supplied paer and pen to take notes...I beleive that they are explicitly prohibited
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:25 AM
Oct 2012

from bringing in their own paper.

 

hexola

(4,835 posts)
13. I think the candidates can supply the paper and pen/pencil of their choice.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:50 AM
Oct 2012

But it has to be given to the commission staff in advance - and placed at the podium by the staff...

I would make sense that the commission would be just as fussy about picking it up?

Were there any notes left at Mitts podium?

The 2004 rules prohibit "tangible objects" - so even the hanky is a violation.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
24. he picked them up at the end
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:01 PM
Oct 2012

First he fumbled with them trying to get them packed up but didn't have enough time, so you can see him slide them under the other paper.

Then later when the Obama's are leaving, you can see him go mess with them some more and it looked like he was putting the cheats inside another paper. Then he tried twice to get it in his own pocket before handing it off to his son. Ann could not keep her eyes off the paper and you can see her mouth "we need to get off the stage"

Check up the close ups on the other thread. Whatever is on his podium has been folded and has words on it. It is not the hankie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=119479

dawnec1957

(2 posts)
34. fumbled papers and 2
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:25 PM
Oct 2012

Did you notice in the very first part of the clip that Romney tosses the papers on the podium after taking them out of if right pants pocket, but just two to three seconds later you can see him (well his arm) putting something back into his left jacket pocket. A cheater covers the notes with hanky, removes the notes as debate host talks, then tucks the hanky back in pocket.......Later, if you go frame bu frame, you can see him looking down at his notes (this is before he takes any notes himself)

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
39. I need to watch the whole thing again.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:58 PM
Oct 2012

I did notice he seemed to be reading and only once did I see him maybe write stuff and that was when he was listing about 6 things that Obama had said that he wanted to go over one by one. Other than that I don't remember seeing him write anything but he sure did appear to be reading something.

The fact that the Romney camp has responded may be quite telling. If there was nothing to see, they might have just ignored the speculation but they seem to want to put a stop to it. lol

We need to see if we can find out if he did put that hankie back in his pocket. I don't know if we can see where he pulled it from when he mopped his lip with it.

good catch on the putting hankie back in pocket.

cilla4progress

(24,554 posts)
30. What do you mean blind alley?
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:14 PM
Oct 2012

Because MSM wouldn't pursue? Or turned out to be something innocuous? If so, what was it? Dying to know!

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
5. Starting to hit M$M I see - good! Let them ask if Mitt cheated and/or explain
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:18 AM
Oct 2012

his hand to pocket to podium action and the fast collection and pass off of the papers to his son after the debate and Ann's lips saying "get off the stage".

We've got a huge thread going about this

yellowcanine

(35,690 posts)
9. Problem is both candidates had paper to take notes on. It is not surprising that
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:41 AM
Oct 2012

Mitt would retrieve any notes he took during the debate. Without unambiguous evidence that he what he removed from his pocket was a paper with notes on it I think this is a nonstarter. Even then, do we know each candidate wasn't allowed a crib sheet? I am doubtful there is anything here.

 

hexola

(4,835 posts)
11. The Comission staff places the paper and pens - not sure they are supposed to retrieve them also.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:45 AM
Oct 2012

I dont recall seeing this addressed in the 2004 rules.

I agree - retrieving notes seems normal.

But - its also the moment he was counting on to make it easy to hide evidence.

Has anyone pinpointed what Obama did? Did he leave his notes?

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
12. Let Mitt & Co. answer for it then ~or~ lie about it.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:47 AM
Oct 2012

He took something out of his pocket and put it on the podium then fumbled around with it once it was there. He then stopped mingling with the crew and went back to pick it up, carefully folding it then hot potatoed it to his son who then stashed it.

Obama did no such thing.

I'm remaining objective but I want Mitt to explain what we just saw on tape.

 

hexola

(4,835 posts)
14. Did the networks stay with the stage feed - or just CSPAN?
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:53 AM
Oct 2012

I dont have cable - just curious if Mitt thought he was "off"

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
17. I don't know hexola - CSPAN almost always had complete coverage on the boring stuff before and after
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:56 AM
Oct 2012

where the networks won't waste their time on mic checks and meet n greets after the event is over.

I'd like to know this myself.

 

hexola

(4,835 posts)
18. Im be sure CSPAN stayed with it while they took phone calls.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:59 AM
Oct 2012

But the networks might be in a hurry to get the talking heads on...

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
28. And we never saw him
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:11 PM
Oct 2012

Fold up his hankie and put it back in his pocket. I guess that would require watching the whole video again, and even then you don't always see what Rmoney's doing. I find the way Rmoney was looking at Jim as he was pulling his cheat sheet out to be strange. Rmoney looked guilty.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
15. That's totally folded paper ... not a handkerchief!!
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:54 AM
Oct 2012

Not that I'm all psyched that we get on the Faux-like whiner train "waaah waaah, the other guy cheated!" but its just more evidence in a long list that Rmoney is completely convinced that he's better than the rest of us & doesn't need to play by the rules that apply to the 47%. He's such a Smarmy Elitist Asshole.

toddwv

(2,830 posts)
16. Honestly,
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:55 AM
Oct 2012

The weight and behavior of the object is more consistent with a handkerchief than a piece of paper.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
35. There's no way in hell they would've been dumb enough to take that size of a piece of PAPER up
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:26 PM
Oct 2012

there and have him so obviously, in full view of the President himself, reach into his pocket and take it out even behind the podium where they surely knew there were cameras too, but it is also true that you can write on silk, especially with certain fabric finishes, quite nicely. People have been doing that for centuries.

 

NightOwwl

(5,453 posts)
20. Why the hell would he need a cheat sheet...
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:12 PM
Oct 2012

when all he did was pull lies out of his ass?

It was a hankie, but that doesn't make him any less of a sleazebag.

smorkingapple

(827 posts)
21. STOP THIS SHIT PLEASE!!!
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:12 PM
Oct 2012

I don't give 45 fucks if he had every single RW blogger mic'ed into his ear and a screen of what to say scrolling across his podium.

I could have demolished Romney with a blindfold, one ear plugged and off 1 hour of sleep even with those advantages for him.

Obama missed layups and softballs that were tailor-made to be rebutted with ease. No excuses for it.

We know they cheat and lie. In breaking news 2+2=4 and the sun rises in the east.

This is why you come to debates ready to destroy and piss on ashes, not the lackluster, let me not try to damage my likeability shit Obama was on.

GumboYaYa

(5,941 posts)
23. Two things can be tru at the same time and there is no reason to get angry about it.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:39 PM
Oct 2012

Obama can be lackluster and suck in the debate. But that doesn't change the fact that Romney may have cheated too.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
31. Margins consist of people who know one whole hell of a lot less about it than you do. Put yourself
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:15 PM
Oct 2012

in their shoes and tune in to two guys talking, two guys whom you may never have ever actually listened to directly before (you always listen to someone else giving you at best 2nd hand, but often 3rd hand or worst, interpretations of what these guys are saying). So you're listening and watching for practically the first sustained exposure you've had and one guy is saying things and the other guy says nothing but, TTE, "That's a lie" or "That's not true". You barely really know either one of them or the issues at all, so you don't know lies when you hear them, which means that you don't know that EVERY word out of Rongny's mouth is a lie AND (because Rongny says nothing but lies that you don't know are lies) Obama says practically nothing but, TTE, "That's false". Which fellow would you regard as more informative, the one who appears to be giving you information (even though you don't know that information is a lie), or the guy who appears incapable of saying anything but an attack in one form or another on everything that the other guy is telling you?

patrice

(47,992 posts)
32. Bain actively promoted a culture of lying about the competition and Rongny was known to
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:19 PM
Oct 2012

support that tactic by allusion, a.k.a. plausible deniability.

marezdotes

(110 posts)
33. I noticed it as it happened.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:20 PM
Oct 2012

He actually slipped paper out of his pants pocket and slid it on to his podium but he did it in such a weirdly sneaky way that it kind of creeped me out and I didn't get why he would be so slight of hand about it. I didn't know till now about the rule.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
36. Even if it was a hankie, you can write on silk quite nicely, especially with certain fabric finishes
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:36 PM
Oct 2012

dawnec1957

(2 posts)
37. and then he...
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:38 PM
Oct 2012

after Romney slipped the notes out of his right side pants pocket, (it could have been in a handkerchief as a cover) he seems to slip something back into his left jacket pocket 2-3 seconds later. Watch his left arm motion.

longship

(40,416 posts)
38. Sorry DUers. This is a non-starter.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:55 PM
Oct 2012

For one, the evidence is dodgy. One sees what one wants to see. And blowing up the video doesn't help. This is just mystery mongering, searching for anomalies that support a preconceived notion that Mitt had notes.

And the argument that people do not put hankies in their pants pockets is utterly lame.

Let this one go. It isn't worth it. There isn't enough data to determine whether Mitt had notes or not. All anybody has is a video from an awkward angle which is anything but definitive.

Plus, there's the big issue that he lied like a rug throughout the debate. And the Big Bird shit. And the overt dismissal of the decorum and disrespect of Jim Lehrer. These things are far worse than a fuzzy amplified video that maybe shows a piece of paper from Mitt's pocket.

Let it go. It isn't that important because nothing will ever come of it and we'll look like fools to keep bringing it up.

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