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cali

(114,904 posts)
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:32 AM May 2016

Yesterday, the Obama administration did something horrifying.

It's difficult not to despair. This is all kinds of wrong. This country has normalized and white washed Kissinger. That's wrong. And dangerous.

This is sick.



On Monday afternoon, at 4 pm Eastern, Secretary of Defense Ash Carter will host an awards ceremony at the Pentagon honoring one of the world's most notorious war criminals.

The criminal in question, Dr. Henry Kissinger, has never been charged. But the evidence that he aided and abetted war crimes during his time in the White House advising Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford is well-established and overwhelming.

While Kissinger deserves real credit for some of America's most important Cold War victories, including Nixon's diplomatic opening to China, he is also responsible for some of its worst atrocities. Carpet-bombing Cambodia, supporting Pakistan's genocide in Bangladesh, greenlighting the Argentinian dictatorship's murderous crackdown on dissidents — all of those were Kissinger initiatives, all pushed in the name of pursuing American national interests and fighting communism.

While the Obama administration might want to pretend that only the first half of his résumé exists, that doesn't change reality. The secretary of defense is handing an award to a man whose actions belie the values Obama administration claims to stand for. It's hardly alone in this: Kissinger has been treated as an elder statesman in polite Washington society for decades. But this is the most recent example, and one of the most high-profile, of polite Washington society rewriting Kissinger's legacy. Let's not forget what it really is.


<snip>

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11640562/kissinger-pentagon-award

289 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Yesterday, the Obama administration did something horrifying. (Original Post) cali May 2016 OP
More: cali May 2016 #1
Don't forget the bombing of Laos. Manifestor_of_Light May 2016 #215
Yes, the extent of the bombing of Laos is truly sickening RufusTFirefly May 2016 #251
That is terrifying to even watch. nt. polly7 May 2016 #258
It's hard to fathom how people can be capable of such barbarism RufusTFirefly May 2016 #259
I just can't comprehend the mentality of anyone who could excuse polly7 May 2016 #260
I hope that neither of us knows that kind of person RufusTFirefly May 2016 #261
Yes, that is frightening. And you are probably right. polly7 May 2016 #262
Thanks Cali. peace13 May 2016 #2
Still waiting for a pardon of Gov. Don Siegleman who has been railroaded by Rove cohorts. bjobotts May 2016 #158
Yup. peace13 May 2016 #247
This is the kind of false fasttense May 2016 #165
Dear mr president, the Nobel people called tularetom May 2016 #3
And Kissinger's, too. Buzz Clik May 2016 #10
Carrying water for Kissinger now? Good grief. merrily May 2016 #76
Pointing out that he did win the Nobe Peace Prize is carrying water for him? FBaggins May 2016 #130
As if that post will simply mentioning, out of the blue, that Kissinger won a Nobel Prize. merrily May 2016 #197
Well, they haven't taken Kissinger's back. thesquanderer May 2016 #70
He never even had a chance to actually, you know, EARN it n/t arcane1 May 2016 #129
Apparently it's earned with drones and bombs.... lagomorph777 May 2016 #159
Is that an America Sux post or just an Obama Sux post? uhnope May 2016 #268
I would just like to try a Democrat for a while. lagomorph777 May 2016 #275
If that's a slapdown to Pres. Obama it is not well placed uhnope May 2016 #269
He got the prize before that, and Syria is a mess n/t arcane1 May 2016 #278
wait what? uhnope May 2016 #279
Once both parties agree to the notion of empire malaise May 2016 #4
I don't think that explains it fully cali May 2016 #5
Were it not so there would be several Western persons in prison malaise May 2016 #7
Keep working on it, cali. You need to get these people in line with the proper talking points. Buzz Clik May 2016 #11
Pitiful, Buzz. cali May 2016 #17
Yeah, my feeling, too. Oh-- you're talking about me? Buzz Clik May 2016 #59
This may be funny to you, but I don't find war crimes.amusing cali May 2016 #60
And here we go with the drama. Buzz Clik May 2016 #65
You seem determined to make yourself look cali May 2016 #68
haha GummyBearz May 2016 #98
Indeed. And making a good job of it. mr blur May 2016 #131
So, you're fine with what kissinger did. We get it. It matters not to you that this is who... ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #95
You have half of it correct: Buzz Clik May 2016 #104
What's beneath contempt is Hillary carousing with war criminals. But you don't care about that. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #108
Carousing? LOL! Buzz Clik May 2016 #110
I bet their cocktail parties are wildly entertaining. "You people"? Who, us real Democrats? nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #112
But that isn't why she looks up to him scscholar May 2016 #227
Henry fucking war-criminal Kissinger. polly7 May 2016 #111
Thank you for posting this geardaddy May 2016 #263
You're welcome! nt. polly7 May 2016 #264
You do realize they are friends, right? angrychair May 2016 #150
yes, they spend Christmas vacation with the Kissingers.. grasswire May 2016 #157
+1 nt Duval May 2016 #91
So, you are an admirer of Kissinger? Bettie May 2016 #72
If Hill loves you, that poster will love you - no matter what you did. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #96
The post wasn't even about Clinton Bettie May 2016 #100
while this action doesn't surprise me at all, it IS sickening Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #6
It sucks for someone pretending to be part of the Uber Democrat Elite to toss Obama under the bus. Buzz Clik May 2016 #12
Um, didn't he toss himself under the bus? Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #18
No, he did not toss himself under the bus. Only a "friend" can do that. Buzz Clik May 2016 #53
what "friend" are you referring to? Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #102
duh Buzz Clik May 2016 #106
Hmmm... I thought maybe you had some point that you wanted to get across Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #117
The point is trolling Gore1FL May 2016 #133
Criticizing this is not about throwing Obama under the.bus. cali May 2016 #19
Read your OP. It doesn't stop at criticism. Buzz Clik May 2016 #54
best to just realize some people are prone to histrionics uhnope May 2016 #273
This is what happens when you treat politicians like reality TV stars. frylock May 2016 #119
K & R Mbrow May 2016 #8
The total demonization of Kissinger is crucial to the Berners. CRITICAL! Buzz Clik May 2016 #9
....... Hotler May 2016 #13
It's no plot -- it's a ritual. Buzz Clik May 2016 #14
Pathetic. This is about celebrating a man responsible for the death and suffering cali May 2016 #23
Pathetic? I avoided using that word in reference to you... Buzz Clik May 2016 #56
Oh poor victim Buzz. Ugh. cali May 2016 #64
Oh fuck no. I know exactly how insulting you are when I respond to you. Eyes wide open. Buzz Clik May 2016 #67
I don't see you as an adversary at all. cali May 2016 #69
Lol, you have to be joking. You are neither! Nt Logical May 2016 #74
Keep digging Buzz LiberalLovinLug May 2016 #137
This has nothing to do with bernie cali May 2016 #16
funny Locrian May 2016 #25
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Try this: google "clinton kissinger site:democraticunderground.com" Buzz Clik May 2016 #57
You sure are butthurt as of late. nt Gore1FL May 2016 #134
All you've done is make a fool of yourself Bradical79 May 2016 #204
Hey ya go, Ace: Buzz Clik May 2016 #221
And right on cue, here it comes: the Hillary's Mentor thread. Buzz Clik May 2016 #92
Are you freaking serious? Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #20
Alas, the poster is serious and represents many Hillary supporters. cali May 2016 #21
that's pretty sad Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #22
It is. And it's an unhealthy p perspective. cali May 2016 #24
He has over 11 hides Ichingcarpenter May 2016 #51
not surprising that some are privileged here. wildbilln864 May 2016 #103
it's definitely a conspiracy. uhnope May 2016 #270
Hillary supporters on DU are super-users, w/unlimited hide allowances, apparently, closeupready May 2016 #175
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #194
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Orrex May 2016 #271
I heard they can make your computer slow down if they want, too uhnope May 2016 #272
Have you even read any history? Ever? A little bit? Jester Messiah May 2016 #27
Kissinger was a war criminal long before Clinton. blackspade May 2016 #29
The "Demonization" of Kissinger is of his own making rpannier May 2016 #31
Nothing is critical here, sulphurdunn May 2016 #33
We are to ignore the death of millions because .... Hillary? bread_and_roses May 2016 #34
Good to see you, even in this thread. cali May 2016 #35
Thanks cali bread_and_roses May 2016 #66
Same here newfie11 May 2016 #52
I believed Kissinger was evil before I ever heard of the Clintons Generic Other May 2016 #36
Wow, now you must defend Kissinger. zeemike May 2016 #37
Hey, hill fans say Bernie is a war criminal just like Kissinger! cali May 2016 #46
Demonizing.... IDemo May 2016 #48
Whatever it takes.....including glorifying a war criminal...... SammyWinstonJack May 2016 #61
What a weird response Scootaloo May 2016 #81
And the reclamation of Kissinger is critical to Hillary. Good luck with that! Doctor_J May 2016 #139
Kissinger was the bad guy since the 60's. Nothing to with Hillary. This is about America harun May 2016 #172
Ok folks, shows over, no way we can top this post Lordquinton May 2016 #195
What the fucking hell? Hissyspit May 2016 #253
recall mtasselin May 2016 #15
Your new 3rd-Way Democratic Party, ladies and gentlemen. Jester Messiah May 2016 #26
+1 chwaliszewski May 2016 #32
+1! KPN May 2016 #101
I'm still blown away by anyone connecting this to the primary election. cali May 2016 #28
You Said It Liberal_Dog May 2016 #85
It is important for us not to feel too sanctimonious. Alkene May 2016 #30
And puffy socks May 2016 #38
Fuck. You really are something else. Ugh. cali May 2016 #39
And TRUE puffy socks May 2016 #41
No. It's a bald and vile lie. You are exhibiting either shocking ignorance or shocking cali May 2016 #44
Post Primary season is going to be a BLAST LOL snooper2 May 2016 #63
So now Kissinger will be off limits? The fux? Kittycat May 2016 #146
Lame and off topic. truebluegreen May 2016 #43
Aw puffy socks May 2016 #47
Fuck knows why I'm going to try. Forget everything but Kissinger for a minute cali May 2016 #50
Cut him some slack. Fuddnik May 2016 #80
Cali, he calls him self "socks" passiveporcupine May 2016 #199
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #58
Kissinger is full of hatred for everyone! Silver_Witch May 2016 #71
If you are one of Brock's army, your work on this thread is not worth your salary karynnj May 2016 #77
Are you friggin kidding me? KPN May 2016 #105
Planet Brock n/t arcane1 May 2016 #128
The deaths due to Bernie votes dont count puffy socks May 2016 #201
You have removed all doubt. Ugh. Particularly putrid big lie. Shame, shame, shame on YOU. cali May 2016 #202
Nobody died in Somalia puffy socks May 2016 #203
You are surpassingly clueless. Your posts in this thread disgusting. Shame, shame shame. cali May 2016 #205
Answer the question.. puffy socks May 2016 #214
Let's see, a member of DU since April 19 (less than 3 weeks)! KPN May 2016 #219
If you refuse to answer the question and ignore it puffy socks May 2016 #226
Yep. That's our puffy. cali May 2016 #248
The question is a lie in itself, inferring that Bernie is uniquely responsible for those deaths cali May 2016 #277
Blood libel nonsense n/t Scootaloo May 2016 #78
What a ridiculous claim ... Trajan May 2016 #87
Well, if the posts in this thread are dgibby May 2016 #167
would you agree that sharing responsibility is very different from being a main driver of Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #115
Member since: Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:16 PM frylock May 2016 #120
Another moronic statement from the mid-April club. arcane1 May 2016 #127
278 posts. Which rock did you reside under before you decided to attack Bernie? nt thereismore May 2016 #141
Yes. Bernie Sanders = Henry Kissinger. Right. Hissyspit May 2016 #254
This is the same President who said we weren't going to prosecute the war crimes of the Bush Admin. Ford_Prefect May 2016 #40
Comparing Bernie to Kissinger is hateful and deranged. It proves the point made in the op. cali May 2016 #42
Who could be so mind-bogglingly stupid to suggest Bernie Sanders and Henry Kissinger are similar? Maedhros May 2016 #121
I think it's more petty spite than stupidity cali May 2016 #122
k&r nationalize the fed May 2016 #45
You are correct pmorlan1 May 2016 #73
What happened to Buzz(whatever's) posts? They were disgusting. mikehiggins May 2016 #49
the party's been boiled down to a cult: Bush/Trump's bad because he's like Kissinger MisterP May 2016 #75
+1000 k and r's if I could!!! 7wo7rees May 2016 #84
not surprising at all,members of the war club honoring each other. wendylaroux May 2016 #55
I really get all kinds of P/O when this kind of ish happens but... Stellar May 2016 #62
Why can't the thread just be about our president honoring a war criminal? Why mucifer May 2016 #79
Because Hillary also considers Kissinger a mentor. alarimer May 2016 #144
There's no words to describe my disgust that anyone would try rehabilitating Kissingers reputation riderinthestorm May 2016 #82
+1 jwirr May 2016 #109
I'm disgusted. zentrum May 2016 #83
Kissinger is scum of the earth. nt JEB May 2016 #86
Washington consensus I Bought the Law May 2016 #88
Interesting thread, should go with this one: malthaussen May 2016 #89
Well, Cali... R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #90
I don't agree, Daneel cali May 2016 #93
A die is a die, Cali. Perhaps killing civillians in the fight R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #118
Nuance in this, is a prerequisite. cali May 2016 #123
Murder is murder. R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #140
I will though. I don't think all acts of murder are on the same plane. cali May 2016 #145
One can't be a little pregnant. R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #148
If we launch a Hellfire missile at a 'terrorist', and we know that innocent people in the vicinity Maedhros May 2016 #281
How would US citizens act if it were Mexico launching R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #285
We would be carpet-bombing within a week.[n/t] Maedhros May 2016 #287
Do you consider killing someone in self defense murder? passiveporcupine May 2016 #282
What we are doing is not self-defence. R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #286
While I agree that it is not the same as direct and imminent self defense, passiveporcupine May 2016 #288
the real thing the obama administration did yesterday was amazing. La Lioness Priyanka May 2016 #94
Excellent point hueymahl May 2016 #97
Yes, that was great. Jarringly at.odds with this. cali May 2016 #113
K & R !!! to the Max... Thespian2 May 2016 #99
appalled, but not surprised. niyad May 2016 #107
Actually, among Kissinger's many war crimes . . FairWinds May 2016 #114
+1,000,000. nt. polly7 May 2016 #132
Not a Kissinger lover myself but radical noodle May 2016 #196
The K man personally knew the war was lost . . FairWinds May 2016 #289
Kissinger, the Dulles boys, Ivy League, Oxford, etc...all really smart boys who played islandmkl May 2016 #116
We forget sometimes because Repubs are so loud and scary--They are really DUMB. n/t librechik May 2016 #125
A murderous psychopath... gregcrawford May 2016 #124
But, but he's a DEMOCRAT!!! Blue No Matter Who!! Democrats can't do bad things!!!11 arcane1 May 2016 #126
did the part where he overlooked all the Bush Inc. war criminals not give you a clue? Skittles May 2016 #135
Obama toasts Poppy Bush: 'We are surely a kinder and gentler nation because of you' Octafish May 2016 #142
Republicans didn't disappear, they took over felix_numinous May 2016 #136
don't think it's a repub. thing or a dem thing,it's a rich thing. Oligarchy is here. wendylaroux May 2016 #151
Those who align with the sociopathic oligarchy felix_numinous May 2016 #153
Kissinger needs to be "normalized" so he can openly advise & mentor Hillary's endless wars. nt 99th_Monkey May 2016 #138
Mr. President, I am changing my avatar of you and Bernie to just Bernie. nt thereismore May 2016 #143
Wow, Hillary's SoS is all scrubbed, fresh, and ready. lagomorph777 May 2016 #147
oh god... what a thought Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #155
Kinda like honoring John Dillinger for his efforts to remove paper and metal from banks. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #149
Dillinger was actually convicted of a crime. Gomez163 May 2016 #180
Unfortunately, Kissinger hasn't been convicted of his many crimes. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #185
A point that should be heeded but is not. Gomez163 May 2016 #186
You've only been here two months passiveporcupine May 2016 #283
Bernie juries. I wuz railroaded Gomez163 May 2016 #284
Couldn't agree more. Utterly repellent but bjo59 May 2016 #152
The nature of the diplomatic world is that you have to associate with scoundrels. Gomez163 May 2016 #154
just stop,no excuse for this.makes you sound awful. wendylaroux May 2016 #160
Awful to a full moon true believer. You cant be in government and be like that. Gomez163 May 2016 #162
This person is a war criminal murderer,looks like you are the full moon true believer. wendylaroux May 2016 #163
You see in this country, you're innocent until proven guilty. Gomez163 May 2016 #170
Absolutely disgusting. nt. polly7 May 2016 #174
I guess things work differently in Canada. Gomez163 May 2016 #177
I'm glad you don't too. polly7 May 2016 #181
You need to be careful. They can sue you for defamation and would win hands down. Gomez163 May 2016 #182
lmfao. polly7 May 2016 #183
Means nothing. If you think he's a crook - call the cops. Gomez163 May 2016 #184
How is that going to help the millions he slaughtered? nt. polly7 May 2016 #191
Calling him names wont help either. Gomez163 May 2016 #192
I call people who've lied and deceived to slaughter millions - evil, ugly, warmongering criminals. polly7 May 2016 #193
And fail miserably cali May 2016 #200
Kissinger is not merely a scoundrel. And celebrating someone is cali May 2016 #164
Associate with "scoundrels" indeed. bjo59 May 2016 #255
Whhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaat? ReRe May 2016 #156
And H is to the right of him! wendylaroux May 2016 #161
Yup... ReRe May 2016 #166
I know,the way things are is hard to bear. wendylaroux May 2016 #168
Hey, that sounds like a good idea... ReRe May 2016 #179
Appalling. It's also appalling to see Kissinger celebrated here, on DU as we'll. myrna minx May 2016 #169
Depressing. cali May 2016 #171
A 92 year old man. Old and feeble. Gomez163 May 2016 #173
You need to think about what you're saying. Age does not exonerate or ameliorate. cali May 2016 #176
He's never been charged with one crime. I'm not defending him. Gomez163 May 2016 #178
Nor has anyone charged Cheney or the Bush family. gordianot May 2016 #187
There is a reason why not. You may not like it. Gomez163 May 2016 #189
They try anyway failing that just shut down the Government. gordianot May 2016 #198
From the National Security Archives cali May 2016 #190
So you're defending him -nt Bradical79 May 2016 #207
Not defending him. I'm just correcting someone using the typical Gomez163 May 2016 #208
Stop defending a war criminal Bradical79 May 2016 #218
Please provide a link to a criminal conviction for Kissinger. Gomez163 May 2016 #220
Aaaaand you're still defending him -nt Bradical79 May 2016 #224
As I would defend anyone not convicted. Gomez163 May 2016 #225
Still would like to know why you're such a big fan of his Bradical79 May 2016 #228
No. I won't let crimes of a war criminal go. That's despicable. myrna minx May 2016 #236
Never been tried. Innocent until proven guilty Gomez163 May 2016 #237
OMG - do you even know who you're defending? I'm embarrassed for you. myrna minx May 2016 #238
The law is the law. You cant just make up charges. You accept as true that Gomez163 May 2016 #239
So this is what "Brocking the record" looks like. myrna minx May 2016 #240
You have no criminal conviction. Thank God he's not the suing type. Gomez163 May 2016 #241
Not falling for this. Im sorry that I took this exchange seriously at first. myrna minx May 2016 #243
Wow. Phlem May 2016 #257
+1 leftstreet May 2016 #211
Such horrible people :-( Bradical79 May 2016 #231
Glad i cannot see a single one of them. Duppers May 2016 #249
Let's see Clinton they think will be President and her buddy is now getting an award. bkkyosemite May 2016 #188
Yeah, absolutely disgusting Bradical79 May 2016 #206
The evidence does not support calling Kissinger a war criminal Progressive dog May 2016 #209
It sure does. That you're ignorant of history is not a rebuttal cali May 2016 #210
It sure doesn't, in the USA people are charged and convicted before Progressive dog May 2016 #216
The evidence is overwhelming. There are many links in this thread cali May 2016 #217
The evidence is overwhelming in your mind, Progressive dog May 2016 #222
No. It's in the National Security Archives. Link upthread cali May 2016 #229
You don't seem to understand what evidence actually is. Progressive dog May 2016 #234
Oh please. You are not refuting a thing. What a joke your posts are cali May 2016 #242
Truth is not about support cited, Progressive dog May 2016 #274
So, you support Kissinger's actions? You think what he did was OK?- nt Bradical79 May 2016 #230
When I'm on Kissinger's jury, Progressive dog May 2016 #233
Remember the rationalization for ignoring Bush & Cheyney era Dark n Stormy Knight May 2016 #212
DURec leftstreet May 2016 #213
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe May 2016 #223
war is not Mutant456 May 2016 #232
That our Democratic president honors those who create and order acts of Genocide is telling of Dont call me Shirley May 2016 #235
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #244
I don't even remotely worship my Senator. And are you so... that you can't understand cali May 2016 #245
Jury results cali May 2016 #246
Heck even ol Bill Cosby had a line on him (when I listened to him. his skits are okay , just he isn' PatrynXX May 2016 #250
Ego Te Absolvo GliderGuider May 2016 #252
I have a few things to say burrowowl May 2016 #256
Sounds like a lifetime achievement award aka Thank you for being at death's door award. nt Xipe Totec May 2016 #265
Kissinger Drew Up Plans to Attack Cuba neverforget May 2016 #266
Well, you know, he also called American torturers "patriots". So... cui bono May 2016 #267
Is Clinton going to be there? Smarmie Doofus May 2016 #276
Wow! Defending that piece of crap. Waiting For Everyman May 2016 #280
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
1. More:
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:35 AM
May 2016

<snip>
Here is the problem with this account of Kissinger: It ignores the fact that he shares responsibility for the deaths of enormous numbers of innocent people. For those who believe American policy should be about more than the naked pursuit of self-interest, the continuing veneration of Kissinger in Washington is appalling.

Most infamously, Kissinger masterminded a Nixon-era plan to carpet-bomb Cambodia. Nominally, the bombing — which indiscriminately hit targets in civilian-populated areas — was supposed to destroy North Vietnamese and Viet Cong bases. In reality, it was designed to improve America's strategic position before a negotiated withdrawal.

During the first stage of the bombing, from 1969 to 1970, Kissinger personally approved all 3,875 bombing raids, according to a contemporary Pentagon report.

"The degree of micro-management revealed in Kissinger's memoirs forbids the idea that anything of importance took place without his knowledge of permission," the late Christopher Hitchens wrote in his book The Trial of Henry Kissinger. "Of nothing is this more true than his own individual involvement in the bombing ... of neutral Cambodia."

American bombs killed between 150,000 and 500,000 people in Cambodia. That created a swell of public support for Pol Pot and his communist Khmer Rouge rebels, who exploited popular anger at the bombings to seize control of the government in 1975. The Khmer Rouge then slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Cambodians and starved even more, ultimately killing at least a million people, about one-seventh of the country's population.

<snip>
http://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11640562/kissinger-pentagon-award

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
215. Don't forget the bombing of Laos.
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:38 PM
May 2016

VICE did a story Friday night about land mine removal efforts in Laos. The reporter said that more pounds of bombs were dropped on Laos (in an undeclared war) than ALL of the Allied Powers dropped on the Axis powers in World War II. It also showed the homemade legs and feet prostheses people had made. People are still being injured every day there. It's probably just as bad in Cambodia and Vietnam.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
259. It's hard to fathom how people can be capable of such barbarism
Tue May 10, 2016, 10:44 PM
May 2016

But clearly, they are.

Even harder to believe that they'd actually be revered even now.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
260. I just can't comprehend the mentality of anyone who could excuse
Tue May 10, 2016, 10:46 PM
May 2016

the horrible suffering of millions ......... and support the evil that caused it. It boggles my mind. I'm very glad not to know this kind or person in real life.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
261. I hope that neither of us knows that kind of person
Tue May 10, 2016, 10:53 PM
May 2016

But we can't be sure.

I don't believe in evil per se. I think that people lose their way and that once they do it gradually becomes easier and easier to engage in steadily more horrific acts and yet somehow (through the grace of cognitive dissonance) find a way to justify them.

There are no monsters. Just people who for some reason behave monstrously.

That's even more frightening when you really think about it.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
262. Yes, that is frightening. And you are probably right.
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:00 PM
May 2016

There should be some kind of test that automatically disqualifies anyone from office or a position of power who shows the ability to cause suffering. The world would definitely be a much different place.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
247. Yup.
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:26 PM
May 2016

It's crazy that even though they 'aren't in power'....they seem to be. I can't believe that Siegleman is still in jail. I wonder if President Obama will pardon him at last call. Hope so!

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
165. This is the kind of false
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:49 PM
May 2016

History and glorifing of officials no matter the horrors they perpetrated that we use to see in the old USSR and Communist China.

FBaggins

(26,754 posts)
130. Pointing out that he did win the Nobe Peace Prize is carrying water for him?
Tue May 10, 2016, 12:35 PM
May 2016

I didn't realize that we had to be so reality-averse.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
197. As if that post will simply mentioning, out of the blue, that Kissinger won a Nobel Prize.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:50 PM
May 2016

Speaking of being reality averse....

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
268. Is that an America Sux post or just an Obama Sux post?
Wed May 11, 2016, 05:34 AM
May 2016

The president made a diplomatic path out of conflict with Iran via the nuclear deal and orchestrated getting chemical weapons out of Syria without firing a shot. Pres. Obama well deserves the Nobel Prize

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
275. I would just like to try a Democrat for a while.
Wed May 11, 2016, 09:12 AM
May 2016

I was excited about Obama until he voted to expand mass surveillance in July 2008. Once in office, he brought the banksters who had just looted and destroyed the global economy into his administration. We need to start repairing the damage caused by decades of conservatism practiced by both parties.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
269. If that's a slapdown to Pres. Obama it is not well placed
Wed May 11, 2016, 05:35 AM
May 2016

Pres. Obama well deserves the Nobel Prize. The president made a diplomatic path out of conflict with Iran via the nuclear deal and orchestrated getting chemical weapons out of Syria without firing a shot.

malaise

(269,114 posts)
4. Once both parties agree to the notion of empire
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:56 AM
May 2016

this is par for the course. International law does not apply to those who dominate the planet.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
11. Keep working on it, cali. You need to get these people in line with the proper talking points.
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:46 AM
May 2016
 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
59. Yeah, my feeling, too. Oh-- you're talking about me?
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:14 AM
May 2016

I guess our reactions to each other are mirror images.

Funny, that.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
60. This may be funny to you, but I don't find war crimes.amusing
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:17 AM
May 2016

And I'm not obsessed by a candidate to the point where I insanely see everything through that lens. I find that grotesque.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
65. And here we go with the drama.
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:23 AM
May 2016



How many decades has it been, cali?

Bernie's key demographic is 18-39. How many were even born when Kissinger left his post as SoS? ZERO. Yeah, you bring them up to speed so that when you show them this picture, they'll know exactly how to react:





 

cali

(114,904 posts)
68. You seem determined to make yourself look
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:27 AM
May 2016

all kind of ugly by scoffing at what Kissinger did and what the ramifications are for whitewashing and embracing him.

 

GummyBearz

(2,931 posts)
98. haha
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:15 AM
May 2016

I don't always agree with your posts, but this one I do 100%. I think you are arguing with a wall though. I'm happy to be on his ignore list for some random comment about something as ridiculous as this

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
95. So, you're fine with what kissinger did. We get it. It matters not to you that this is who...
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:09 AM
May 2016

...Hillary chooses to associate with - a war criminal (as well as other war criminals, like gwb and ghwb). The fact that he's a war criminal means nothing to you.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
104. You have half of it correct:
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:19 AM
May 2016

I do not care who Hillary chooses to associate with. Period.

And not just HRC. Anyone.

Trying to make political inroads with a picture of HRC honoring Kissinger (both former SoS) is beneath contempt. Consistent, however.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
111. Henry fucking war-criminal Kissinger.
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:28 AM
May 2016

Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 09:59 AM - Edit history (2)

“Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people.” Henry Kissinger


Henry Kissinger or CODEPINK: Who’s the "Low Life Scum"?

Published on
Friday, January 30, 2015
by Common Dreams

byMedea Benjamin

?itok=kzPoqrVc
Alli McCracken, a peace activist with CODEPINK, shows former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger a pair of handcuffs during a protest at a Senate hearing on Thursday. If there was justice in this world, argue human rights activist, Kissinger would be in prison for his role in perpetrating war crimes as opposed to sitting before the Senate Armed Services Committee to offer his assessment of world affairs. (Photo: Courtesy of CODEPINK)

A very angry Senator John McCain denounced CODEPINK activists as “low-life scum” for holding up signs reading “Arrest Kissinger for War Crimes” and dangling handcuffs next to Henry Kissinger’s head during a Senate hearing on January 29. McCain called the demonstration “disgraceful, outrageous and despicable,” accused the protesters of “physically intimidating” Kissinger and apologized profusely to his friend for this “deeply troubling incident.”

But if Senator McCain was really concerned about physical intimidation, perhaps he should have conjured up the memory of the gentle Chilean singer/songwriter Victor Jara. After Kissinger facilitated the September 11, 1973 coup against Salvador Allende that brought the ruthless Augusto Pinochet to power, Victor Jara and 5,000 others were rounded up in Chile’s National Stadium. Jara’s hands were smashed and his nails torn off; the sadistic guards then ordered him to play his guitar. Jara was later found dumped on the street, his dead body riddled with gunshot wounds and signs of torture.




Despite warnings by senior US officials that thousands of Chileans were being tortured and slaughtered, then Secretary of State Kissinger told Pinochet, "You did a great service to the West in overthrowing Allende."

Rather than calling peaceful protesters “despicable”, perhaps Senator McCain should have used that term to describe Kissinger’s role in the brutal 1975 Indonesian invasion of East Timor, which took place just hours after Kissinger and President Ford visited Indonesia. They had given the Indonesian strongman the US green light—and the weapons—for an invasion that led to a 25-year occupation in which over 100,000 soldiers and civilians were killed or starved to death. The UN's Commission for Reception, Truth and Reconciliation in East Timor (CAVR) stated that U.S. "political and military support were fundamental to the Indonesian invasion and occupation" of East Timor.

If McCain could stomach it, he could have read the report by the UN Commission on Human Rights describing the horrific consequences of that invasion. It includes gang rape of female detainees following periods of prolonged sexual torture; placing women in tanks of water for prolonged periods, including submerging their heads, before being raped; the use of snakes to instill terror during sexual torture; and the mutilation of women’s sexual organs, including insertion of batteries into vaginas and burning nipples and genitals with cigarettes. Talk about physical intimidation, Senator McCain!


More: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/01/30/henry-kissinger-or-codepink-whos-low-life-scum

Octafish (54,331 posts)
8. ''The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.''



"The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves... l don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist because of the irresponsibility of its own people."

-- Henry Kissinger on the US-backed coup d'etat in Chile.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Octafish/844


The life and death of Victor Jara – a classic feature from the vaults

The Chilean singer Victor Jara was murdered in the country's military coup 40 years ago this week. This classic NME piece from 1975 – taken from Rock's Backpages – tells the tale of his death, and how the coup came to pass

"We entered through a side door. Outside there were crowds of people waiting. They had lists on the door that said Body X, Mass Killing, with a number – this long list and occasionally a name. Then we entered an enormous room in the morgue which, I suppose, was a sort of hall, not the place where bodies are normally kept. And it was absolutely full of hundreds of bodies of people who had died violently. People of all ages. Mostly working people. Some very young. Some with their arms tied behind their backs still. And with terrible wounds.

"And I had to go through all these bodies trying to find Victor's body. And it wasn't there. Then I had to go up afterwards to the second floor of the morgue – which was the offices, the administration. And here also in a long passage there were lines of bodies. And one of these … I found Victor's body.

"I can tell you the state of Victor's body because he'd obviously been tortured. I mean his body was full of bullet wounds and he had a sort of tremendous hole in his right hip.

"His body was distorted and his hands were hanging from his wrists and I have this vision of Victor's hands that somehow they didn't belong to his body.

"At the same time he'd been beaten over the head and his head was all bloodied and full of bruises. But I don't know if it's any value to say that among all the bodies that I saw, all of whom had died violent deaths, Victor's had, even in death, an expression of rage, of defiance.


http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/sep/18/victor-jara-pinochet-chile-rocks-backpages


AMY GOODMAN: Today we look at another September 11th. It was 40 years ago this week, September 11, 1973, that General Augusto Pinochet ousted Chile’s democratically elected president, Salvador Allende, in a U.S.-backed military coup. The coup began a 17-year repressive dictatorship during which more than 3,000 Chileans were killed. Pinochet’s rise to power was backed by then-President Richard Nixon and his secretary of state and national security adviser, Henry Kissinger.

In 1970, the CIA’s deputy director of plans wrote in a secret memo, quote, "It is firm and continuing policy that Allende be overthrown by a coup. ... It is imperative that these actions be implemented clandestinely and securely so that the USG [that’s the U.S. government] and American hand be well hidden," unquote. That same year, President Nixon ordered the CIA to, quote, "make the economy scream" in Chile to, quote, "prevent Allende from coming to power or [to] unseat him."

After the 1973 coup, General Pinochet remained a close U.S. ally. He was defeated in 1988 referendum and left office in 1990. In 1998, Pinochet was arrested in London on torture and genocide charges on a warrant issued by a Spanish judge, Baltasar Garzón. British authorities later released Pinochet after doctors ruled him physically and mentally unfit to stand trial.

AMY GOODMAN: Just last week, the wife and two daughters of the legendary Chilean folk singer Víctor Jara filed a civil lawsuit in U.S. court against the former military officer they say killed Jara almost exactly 40 years ago. Víctor Jara was shot to death in the midst of the 1973 U.S.-backed coup. First his hands were smashed so he could no longer play the guitar, it is believed. Jara’s accused killer, Pedro Barrientos, has lived in the United States for roughly two decades and is now a U.S. citizen. Jara’s family is suing him under federal laws that allow U.S. courts to hear about human rights abuses committed abroad. Last year, Chilean prosecutors charged Barrientos and another officer with Jara’s murder, naming six others as accomplices.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/9/9/40_years_after_chile_coup_family


nationalize the fed (1,910 posts)
24. Which one would Hillary choose?



Hillary Clinton reviews Henry Kissinger’s ‘World Order’

By Hillary Rodham Clinton
Washington Post.com September 4, 2014

When Americans look around the world today, we see one crisis after another. Russian aggression in Ukraine, extremism and chaos in Iraq and Syria, a deadly epidemic in West Africa, escalating territorial tensions in the East and South China seas, a global economy that still isn’t producing enough growth or shared prosperity — the liberal international order that the United States has worked for generations to build and defend seems to be under pressure from every quarter. It’s no wonder so many Americans express uncertainty and even fear about our role and our future in the world.

In his new book, “World Order,” Henry Kissinger explains the historic scope of this challenge. His analysis, despite some differences over specific policies, largely fits with the broad strategy behind the Obama administration’s effort over the past six years to build a global architecture of security and cooperation for the 21st century.

During the Cold War, America’s bipartisan commitment to protecting and expanding a community of nations devoted to freedom, market economies and cooperation eventually proved successful for us and the world. Kissinger’s summary of that vision sounds pertinent today: “an inexorably expanding cooperative order of states observing common rules and norms, embracing liberal economic systems, forswearing territorial conquest, respecting national sovereignty, and adopting participatory and democratic systems of governance.”

This system, advanced by U.S. military and diplomatic power and our alliances with like-minded nations, helped us defeat fascism and communism and brought enormous benefits to Americans and billions of others. Nonetheless, many people around the world today — especially millions of young people — don’t know these success stories, so it becomes our responsibility to show as well as tell what American leadership looks like.

...Kissinger is a friend, and I relied on his counsel when I served as secretary of state. He checked in with me regularly, sharing astute observations about foreign leaders and sending me written reports on his travels. Though we have often seen the world and some of our challenges quite differently, and advocated different responses now and in the past, what comes through clearly in this new book is a conviction that we, and President Obama, share: a belief in the indispensability of continued American leadership in service of a just and liberal order...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hillary-clinton-reviews-henry-kissingers-world-order/2014/09/04/b280c654-31ea-11e4-8f02-03c644b2d7d0_story.html




Should Henry Kissinger Mentor a Presidential Candidate?

Published on
Friday, February 12, 2016
by Common Dreams

byMedea Benjamin

At the February 11 Democratic Debate, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton had a spirited exchange about an unlikely topic: the 92-year old former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. Sanders berated Clinton for saying that she appreciated the foreign policy mentoring she got from Henry Kissinger. “I happen to believe,” said Sanders, “that Henry Kissinger was one of the most destructive secretaries of state in the modern history of this country.”

In one of Sanders’ rare outbursts of enmity, he added, “I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. I will not take advice from Henry Kissinger. And in fact, Kissinger's actions in Cambodia, when the United States bombed that country, overthrew Prince Sihanouk, created the instability for Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge to come in, who then butchered some three million innocent people, was one of the worst genocides in the history of the world. So count me in as somebody who will not be listening to Henry Kissinger.”

Clinton went on to defend Kissinger, using the example of China. “His opening up China and his ongoing relationships with the leaders of China is an incredibly useful relationship for the United States of America,” she insisted.

Sanders responded that Kissinger scared Americans about communist China, then opened up trade so U.S. corporations could dump American workers and hire exploited, repressed Chinese.

Full article: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/02/12/should-henry-kissinger-mentor-presidential-candidate


Emails expose close ties between Hillary Clinton and accused war criminal Henry Kissinger



“I greatly admire the skill and aplomb with which you conduct our foreign policy,” wrote Henry Kissinger in a 2012 letter to “the Honorable Hillary Rodham Clinton.” The compliment was included as a handwritten postscript added to the printed letter.

Kissinger met regularly with Secretary Clinton, and applauded her hawkish foreign policy in a handwritten message

BEN NORTON AND JARED FLANERY

“Kissinger is a friend, and I relied on his counsel when I served as secretary of state,” Clinton revealed in the review. “He checked in with me regularly, sharing astute observations about foreign leaders and sending me written reports on his travels.”


http://www.salon.com/2016/01/12/emails_expose_close_ties_between_hillary_clinton_and_accused_war_criminal_henry_kissinger/


Greece, Cyprus, Sanders and Dignity

By Dimitris Konstantakopoulos
Source: Defend Democracy Press
April 16, 2016

Bernie Sanders represents a great hope for Greece and for the whole world. We do not know if he can win against Clinton in the race for the Democratic nomination. What’s more, we don’t know if he could ever be elected US president or what he would do if he is ever elected. Sanders, unlike our own Greek politicians – those unbelievable hijackers of the values Left has proclaimed and of the heritage of heroic struggles its partisans have given – has repeatedly said that he will not be able to do anything unless the people help him to do it. In fact, only the people can do something, with his help!

But, in any case, the emergence, for the first time in many decades, in the United States, of a strong public opinion current, opposing the omnipotence of the financial capital and the neoliberal economic model, a model already evolving into a kind of “destructive capitalism”, is something that should attract the attention of any thinking person on the planet. This is even truer for Greeks in Greece, in Cyprus and throughout the world, given that we are at the forefront of the attack launched by the forces of the Finance and that our nation’s very existence and dignity are threatened by them. I wonder what we are waiting for, like the Rayahs of our history, before we finally decide to react. Are we going to wait until we become another Syria (in our case, by the use of economic and political methods) or until Greece is totally “squashed” and Cyprus is fully taken apart through a new Annan plan (as they already plan to do right after the Cypriot parliamentary elections)? It will be very late by then.

And yet, here we have, in the most powerful country in the world, a politician who, repeatedly and of his own accord, guided only by his political ideas and beliefs, has defended Greece in a way that no Greek politician has ever done, without expecting anything in return. By exposing the international financial system and the dreadful attack it unleashed against Greece, first directly and then by manipulating, in partnership with the German government, the rest of Europe to follow suit (1). But we, on our part, we remain simply indifferent to what is happening in the States with Sanders. Is there any chance that we will manage to save ourselves in this way? Absolutely no chance!


Henry Kissinger – the “killer” of Cyprus

A particularly ironic and tragic aspect of the story is that Sanders strongly criticised Hillary Clinton for her statement characterising Henry Kissinger as her mentor. Kissinger is one of “the most destructive figures in American history” said Sanders (5).

Kissinger is not just any random person in the history of Cyprus. He is in fact the perpetrator of the crimes committed against Cyprus, the organiser of the coup there in 1974, of the attempted murder of Archbishop Makarios and of the ensuing Turkish invasion which ensued. (4) How could it ever be possible that Greeks would support the self-proclaimed student of Kissinger against the one who criticises him? We are lost for words..


Full article: https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/greece-cyprus-sanders-and-dignity/

Pilger - From Pol Pot to ISIS: The blood never dried

John Pilger

16 November 2015


Following the ISIS outrages in Beirut and Paris, John Pilger updates this prescient essay on the root causes of terrorism and what we can do about it.

As a witness to the human consequences of aerial savagery - including the beheading of victims, their parts festooning trees and fields - I am not surprised by the disregard of memory and history, yet again. A telling example is the rise to power of Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge, who had much in common with today's Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS). They, too, were ruthless medievalists who began as a small sect. They, too, were the product of an American-made apocalypse, this time in Asia.

According to Pol Pot, his movement had consisted of "fewer than 5,000 poorly armed guerrillas uncertain about their strategy, tactics, loyalty and leaders". Once Nixon's and Kissinger's B-52 bombers had gone to work as part of "Operation Menu", the west's ultimate demon could not believe his luck. The Americans dropped the equivalent of five Hiroshimas on rural Cambodia during 1969-73. They leveled village after village, returning to bomb the rubble and corpses. The craters left giant necklaces of carnage, still visible from the air. The terror was unimaginable. A former Khmer Rouge official described how the survivors "froze up and they would wander around mute for three or four days. Terrified and half-crazy, the people were ready to believe what they were told... That was what made it so easy for the Khmer Rouge to win the people over." A Finnish Government Commission of Inquiry estimated that 600,000 Cambodians died in the ensuing civil war and described the bombing as the "first stage in a decade of genocide". What Nixon and Kissinger began, Pol Pot, their beneficiary, completed. Under their bombs, the Khmer Rouge grew to a formidable army of 200,000.

ISIS has a similar past and present. By most scholarly measure, Bush and Blair's invasion of Iraq in 2003 led to the deaths of at least 700,000 people - in a country that had no history of jihadism. The Kurds had done territorial and political deals; Sunni and Shia had class and sectarian differences, but they were at peace; intermarriage was common. Three years before the invasion, I drove the length of Iraq without fear. On the way I met people proud, above all, to be Iraqis, the heirs of a civilization that seemed, for them, a presence.

Bush and Blair blew all this to bits. Iraq is now a nest of jihadism. Al-Qaeda - like Pol Pot's "jihadists" - seized the opportunity provided by the onslaught of 'Shock and Awe' and the civil war that followed. "Rebel" Syria offered even greater rewards, with CIA and Gulf state ratlines of weapons, logistics and money running through Turkey. The arrival of foreign recruits was inevitable. A former British ambassador, Oliver Miles, wrote, "The [Cameron] government seems to be following the example of Tony Blair, who ignored consistent advice from the Foreign Office, MI5 and MI6 that our Middle East policy - and in particular our Middle East


The only effective opponents of ISIS are accredited demons of the west - Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and now Russia. The obstacle is Turkey, an "ally" and a member of Nato, which has conspired with the CIA, MI6 and the Gulf medievalists to channel support to the Syrian "rebels", including those now calling themselves ISIS. Supporting Turkey in its long-held ambition for regional dominance by overthrowing the Assad government beckons a major conventional war and the horrific dismemberment of the most ethnically diverse state in the Middle East.


More than 40 years ago, the Nixon-Kissinger bombing of Cambodia unleashed a torrent of suffering from which that country has never recovered. The same is true of the Blair-Bush crime in Iraq, and the Nato and "coalition" crimes in Libya and Syria. With impeccable timing, Henry Kissinger's latest self-serving tome has been released with its satirical title, "World Order". In one fawning review, Kissinger is described as a "key shaper of a world order that remained stable for a quarter of a century". Tell that to the people of Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Chile, East Timor and all the other victims of his "statecraft". Only when "we" recognise the war criminals in our midst and stop denying ourselves the truth will the blood begin to dry.


Full article: http://johnpilger.com/articles/from-pol-pot-to-isis-the-blood-never-dried


Ken Burch (41,182 posts)

This final message, from one of those affected by Henry Kissinger's "liberal" worldview:



(These are the last words Victor ever wrote, after being arrested for singing truth by the Kissinger imposed military junta that replaced the democratic socialist government led by Salvador Allende in September of 1973-Chile's 9/11.....the poem ends abruptly, as the soldiers take Victor away to beat and torture him to death-a task they spent two days completing. he was also making a tune for the song at the moment the guards lead him off).

(on edit: The words are being read on the recording by Adrian Mitchell, who would later be the Poet Laureate of Britain).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511163652

Ichingcarpenter (36,626 posts)
5. Kissinger, Apartheid, Cuba and Steven Biko

Don't forget Kissinger REVERSED JFK's policies and for that matter LBJ's anti apartheid policies under Nixon

This one is documented too....... talk about a racist asshole.

Kissinger's 'Tar Baby' memo: http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=1215

He also wanted to bomb Cuba for their support in Angola.

BBC : Henry Kissinger 'considered Cuba air strikes' in 1976

http://www.bbc.com/news/29441281

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1163802


America Keeps Honoring One of Its Worst Mass Murderers: Henry Kissinger

Including ten quotes that illustrate his megalomania and indifference to the deaths of untold numbers of civilians.
By Fred Branfman / AlterNet April 16, 2013

Henry Kissinger's quote recently released by Wikileaks,"the illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer", likely brought a smile to his legions of elite media, government, corporate and high society admirers. Oh that Henry! That rapier wit! That trademark insouciance! That naughtiness! It is unlikely, however, that the descendants of his more than 6 million victims in Indochina, and Americans of conscience appalled by his murder of non-Americans, will share in the amusement. For his illegal and unconstitutional actions had real-world consequences: the ruined lives of millions of Indochinese innocents in a new form of secret, automated, amoral U.S. Executive warfare which haunts the world until today.

And his conduct raises even more fundamental questions: to what extent can leaders who act secretly ,illegally and unconstitutionally, lying to their citizenry and legislature as a matter of course, legitimately claim to represent their people? How much allegiance do citizens owe such leaders? And what does it say about America’s elites that they have honored a man with so much innocent blood on his hands for the past 40 years?

Mr. Kissinger's most significant historical act was executing Richard Nixon's orders to conduct the most massive bombing campaign, largely of civilian targets, in world history. He dropped 3.7 million tons of bombs** between January 1969 and January 1973 - nearly twice the two million dropped on all of Europe and the Pacific in World War II. He secretly and illegally devastated villages throughout areas of Cambodia inhabited by a U.S. Embassy-estimated two million people; quadrupled the bombing of Laos and laid waste to the 700-year old civilization on the Plain of Jars; and struck civilian targets throughout North Vietnam - Haiphong harbor, dikes, cities, Bach Mai Hospital - which even Lyndon Johnson had avoided. His aerial slaughter helped kill, wound or make homeless an officially-estimated six million human beings**, mostly civilians who posed no threat whatsoever to U.S. national security and had committed no offense against it.

There is a word for the aerial mass murder that Henry Kissinger committed in Indochina, and that word is “evil”. The figure most identified with this word today is Adolph Hitler, and his evil was so unspeakable that the term is by now identified with him. But that is precisely why it is important to understand the new face of evil and moral depravity that Henry Kissinger represents. For evil not only comes in the form of madmen dreaming of 1000 year Reichs. In fact, in our day, it is more likely to be committed by sane, genial and ordinary careerists waging invisible automated war in far-off lands against people whose screams we never hear, whose faces we never see, and whose deaths go unrecorded and unnoticed. It is critical to understand this new face of evil, for it threatens not only countless foreigners but Americans in coming years. And no one has embodied it more than Henry Kissinger.

The planes he dispatched came by day. They came by night. Remorseless. Pitiless. Relentless. Day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. Most of the people below had no idea where the bombers came from, why their lives had been turned into a living hell. The movie "War of the Worlds", in which Americans are incomprehensibly slaughtered by machines is the closest depiction of what the innocent rice-farmers of Indochina experienced.

Hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam were forced to live in holes and caves, like animals. Many tens of thousands were burned alive by the bombs, slowly dying in agony. Others were buried alive, as they gradually suffocated to death when a 500 pound bomb exploded nearby. Most were victims of antipersonnel bombs designed primarily to maim not kill, many of the survivors carrying the metal, jagged or plastic pellets in their bodies for the rest of their lives.

Fathers like 38-year old Thao Vong were suddenly blinded or crippled for life as they lost an arm or leg, made helpless, unable to support their families, becoming dependent on others just to stay alive. Children were struck, lying out in the open, screaming, villagers unable to come to their aid for fear of being killed themselves. No one was spared - neither sweet, loving grandmothers nor lovely young women, neither laughing, innocent children nor nursing or pregnant mothers, not water buffalo needed to farm not the shrines where people had for centuries honored their ancestors and hoped one day to be honored themselves.


Full article: http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/america-keeps-honoring-one-its-worst-mass-murderers-henry-kissinger


The Trials of Henry Kissinger




Henry Kissinger's Legacy of War Crimes Exposed

angrychair

(8,727 posts)
150. You do realize they are friends, right?
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:23 PM
May 2016

Not just people that share a common experience. She has called him her friend. The Clintons and the Kissingers spend free time, away from public eye, as friends.
The same is true for the Clintons and the Bushs and the tRumps.
WJC and tRump are golfing buddies and the daughters were schoolmates and are friends.

These are the people she chooses to associate with out of the public eye.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
157. yes, they spend Christmas vacation with the Kissingers..
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:33 PM
May 2016

..at the lavish estate of Oscar de la Renta.

Bettie

(16,117 posts)
72. So, you are an admirer of Kissinger?
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:34 AM
May 2016

Do you see him as a role model? Someone to aspire to be like?

I'd really like to know if you think this is how our foreign policy should be modeled going forward, because honoring the man gives tacit approval to all the things he has done.

Bettie

(16,117 posts)
100. The post wasn't even about Clinton
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:16 AM
May 2016

it was about disappointment with Obama for giving this award.

Ah well. I still think we need to stop honoring war criminals and start prosecuting them, but that's just me.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
6. while this action doesn't surprise me at all, it IS sickening
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:07 AM
May 2016

Obama never fails to disappoint when it comes to using and excusing the most vile aspects of the American empire.

On the lighter side, these take downs of Niall Ferguson's cheap biography of Kissinger are pretty amusing and show what a horrible hack Ferguson is:

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/29/i-do-not-care-to-finish-reading-this-mediocre-kissinger-biography-by-niall-ferguson/

https://theintercept.com/2016/05/09/barrett-brown-dean-rusk-also-missing-feared-dead/

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
12. It sucks for someone pretending to be part of the Uber Democrat Elite to toss Obama under the bus.
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:48 AM
May 2016

But, politics is politics. Under he goes.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
273. best to just realize some people are prone to histrionics
Wed May 11, 2016, 06:19 AM
May 2016

and it gets the better of them very often

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
9. The total demonization of Kissinger is crucial to the Berners. CRITICAL!
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:44 AM
May 2016

If we are to be fully revulsed by a picture of HRC with Kissinger, then we must -- absolutely must -- believe that Kissinger is "one of the world's most notorious war criminals." Without that, the "Clinton loves Kissinger" meme is empty.

IS EVERYONE ON BOARD?

===================

Could you be any more transparent? This is so sad.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
14. It's no plot -- it's a ritual.
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:50 AM
May 2016

While you're looking for that perfect laughing smiley, Google it.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
23. Pathetic. This is about celebrating a man responsible for the death and suffering
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:59 AM
May 2016

of over a million civilians.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
56. Pathetic? I avoided using that word in reference to you...
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:09 AM
May 2016

... knowing that my post would be hidden by your fans marching in lockstep.

It fits. I simply chose not to use it.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
67. Oh fuck no. I know exactly how insulting you are when I respond to you. Eyes wide open.
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:26 AM
May 2016

Not a victim -- a willing and eager adversary. But, that doesn't mean I won't point out your desperate insults when they come.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,175 posts)
137. Keep digging Buzz
Tue May 10, 2016, 01:21 PM
May 2016


War criminals are bad.........

....unless Hillary and Obama condone it by agreeing to be a part of a whitewash for him.


seriously? You are embarrassing yourself at best in here.
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
16. This has nothing to do with bernie
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:52 AM
May 2016

As you know, I believe Hillary will be the democratic nominee. This is about the normalization and acceptance of someone who committed some truly awful war crimes.

That you just see it through a political lens and project that lens onto me, is pitiful. And frankly, it paints a clear picture of someone so enthralled by partisan clutter that he can't see the forest.

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
25. funny
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:01 AM
May 2016

Funny he talks about people throwing Obama under the bus. I guess throwing ones integrity under the bus doesn't matter.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
57. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Try this: google "clinton kissinger site:democraticunderground.com"
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:11 AM
May 2016

Over 3,000 hits. None of it complimentary to HRC. 3,000 hits!

Nice try.



Have the last word. I've made my point in spades

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
204. All you've done is make a fool of yourself
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:05 PM
May 2016

You took this thread and made it about Hillary Clinton. Are you some kind of Republican plant? It's like you're going out of your way to drag Hillary Clinton's name into this. That's pretty stupid of you're a Clinton supporter.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
20. Are you freaking serious?
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:55 AM
May 2016

What a cheap and superficial comment. The vast majority of us were repulsed by Kissinger, completely independent of Hillary's association with him. The guy is a clear war criminal.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
270. it's definitely a conspiracy.
Wed May 11, 2016, 05:41 AM
May 2016

the fact that you're being treated badly is definitely a sign of that

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
175. Hillary supporters on DU are super-users, w/unlimited hide allowances, apparently,
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:13 PM
May 2016

given how many of them have active accounts with hides beyond five, and even in the double-digits.

Response to closeupready (Reply #175)

Orrex

(63,219 posts)
271. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Wed May 11, 2016, 05:47 AM
May 2016

Last edited Wed May 11, 2016, 07:03 AM - Edit history (1)

Mail Message
On Wed May 11, 2016, 05:40 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Then the 'LAW' is only for us 99% and not for the rest
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7821704

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Meta-BS from this RW troll, now smearing and insulting the entire site & its founder. WTF?

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed May 11, 2016, 05:50 AM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Changed my vote to leave it for the RW troll crack.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Meta, yes. RW troll, no. Makes good point in title. Rest is over the top and personal attack.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The poster is not a right wing troll, alerter. I think he or she just temporarily lost their cool. It happens. However, I vote to hide due to the call-out in the post.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Someone's cruising for a martyring. I say we indulge them.

Hide it.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
272. I heard they can make your computer slow down if they want, too
Wed May 11, 2016, 05:48 AM
May 2016

Either that or admin announced that no one is getting temp-banned for five hides:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1013&pid=5098

We've also decided to try removing the current "five hides and you're out" restriction, mainly because we suspect that members would be more likely to vote to hide bad behavior if they didn't feel like one of their friends might get canned over it. So while members can still be flagged for review for getting posts hidden too quickly, there's no more five-hide suspension. And anyone who is currently suspended for getting five hides is able to post again as of now. We reserve the right to change this decision if it seems like it's having the opposite effect to what was intended.
 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
27. Have you even read any history? Ever? A little bit?
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:07 AM
May 2016

I mean, good god dude. I know you want your side to win and everything is subordinate to that, but for the sake of all that's good... Kissinger!? Really!?

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
29. Kissinger was a war criminal long before Clinton.
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:12 AM
May 2016

Not everything is about her you know.

You better get back in the basement with the until it all blows over...

rpannier

(24,330 posts)
31. The "Demonization" of Kissinger is of his own making
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:20 AM
May 2016

Kissinger is responsible for several atrocities around the world and to try and paint this as some sort of attack is Clinton is the real distraction
Have you been to Cambodia? I Have
Have you been to the Choeung Ek Genocidal Center? I have
How about Prison S21?
Tuol Sleng?

If you haven't, you should try it. Look at the photographs of the men, women and teenage children that the guards took before being taken out and shot. Look at the blank eyes, the lifeless expressions in their faces and then come back and tell us about the Demonization of Kissinger
Sit and listen to the stories of the people who lived during that time, who survived
The man was and is a demon, a murderer and he should receive no awards from the US government

bread_and_roses

(6,335 posts)
34. We are to ignore the death of millions because .... Hillary?
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:24 AM
May 2016

I am beyond stunned at this post - I have not been signing in here - but this is truly beyond belief.

I am an old white woman. I marched against Vietnam. Believe me, it does not take my opposition to HRC to call up a litany of Kissinger's bloody legacy.

Chile
Indonesia
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia

And that's off the top of my head ....

I seriously can't imagine what kind of mind it takes to put loyalty to a candidate above the lives of millions. I thought nothing could surprise me in terms of exculpatory contortions in support of HRC, but ... Kissinger. Younger people here may think of Rove & Cheney as devils incarnate, but they are pale shadows compared to Kissinger. There is no need to convince anyone with a memory or a conscience that Kissinger is ""one of the world's most notorious war criminals." He is.

bread_and_roses

(6,335 posts)
66. Thanks cali
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:24 AM
May 2016

good to see you too - I signed back in because I forgot to rec the post. I miss some here, but really can't stand the all for Party people anymore .... and LBN - which I used to check in on multiple times a day to see what was happening is a desert these days - the good newshounds must be mostly among the missing. Signing out again.

Be well,
b&r

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
36. I believed Kissinger was evil before I ever heard of the Clintons
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:27 AM
May 2016

Funny how some of us actually have memories.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
37. Wow, now you must defend Kissinger.
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:29 AM
May 2016

Who will be the next big name you have to defend, George Bush?
Sure looks like the right wing is being rehabilitated by the left.

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
48. Demonizing....
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:56 AM
May 2016
Nixon had been elected to end the Vietnam War but, fearful of an adverse reaction from Congress for bombing a neutral nation, Nixon labeled the plan top secret and resorted to deception. He had the B-52 runs over South Vietnam switched to Cambodian targets.

Kissinger directed the sites to be bombed while thoroughly enjoying the role of bombardier. He beamed at reports of huge bomb craters. Dr. K approved 3,875 Cambodia bombing raids in 1969 and 1970.

The U.S. military dropped 6 billion tons of bombs on Southeast Asia by order of “bombardier” Kissinger. His order to blast “anything that flies or everything that moves” was carried out. The Finnish Government Committee of Inquiry put the Cambodian deaths at 600,000.

John Pilger, reporting for Truthout, said “the Nixon-Kissinger bombing of Cambodia unleashed a torrent of suffering from which the country has never recovered”.
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
81. What a weird response
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:58 AM
May 2016

As if progressive distaste for Kissinger is what's new, instead of your apparent admiration of the man.

The sad part is that you actually think we're going to believe that you believe that.

harun

(11,348 posts)
172. Kissinger was the bad guy since the 60's. Nothing to with Hillary. This is about America
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:08 PM
May 2016

moving beyond it's red scare days.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
195. Ok folks, shows over, no way we can top this post
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:38 PM
May 2016

Shut it all down ,Tom Lehrer retired for this very reason. We can all relax knowing that there is no way we can achieve this level of satire. Don't forget to turn off the lights and tip the waitress.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
253. What the fucking hell?
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:08 PM
May 2016

People have been calling out Kissinger for DECADES.

Christ...

Buzz Clik jumps the shark. BIG TIME.

mtasselin

(666 posts)
15. recall
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:52 AM
May 2016

If I recall correctly he was going to be indicted on September 12, 2001, but we all know what happened.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
26. Your new 3rd-Way Democratic Party, ladies and gentlemen.
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:06 AM
May 2016

They ruined the Republican party with their devil's deal with the religious whackjobs, so now they're gonna come to our party and do the exact same thing here.

KPN

(15,647 posts)
101. +1!
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:17 AM
May 2016

They're not going to come, they're already here and have hijacked the D Party. Time to take it back.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
28. I'm still blown away by anyone connecting this to the primary election.
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:11 AM
May 2016

It's grotesque to see it primarily in that light.

Alkene

(752 posts)
30. It is important for us not to feel too sanctimonious.
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:15 AM
May 2016

Last edited Tue May 10, 2016, 08:57 AM - Edit history (1)

Kissinger was working hard under enormous pressure and is a real patriot.
It is important, when we look back, to recall how afraid people were of Communism and the Domino Effect.
We did a whole lot of things that were right, but we murdered some folks.
We did some things that were contrary to our values.
We have to as a country take responsibility for that so hopefully we don’t do it again in the future.



http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-obama-torture-20140801-story.html

 

puffy socks

(1,473 posts)
38. And
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:37 AM
May 2016

yet Bernie's supporters ignore the fact that he shares responsibility for the deaths of enormous numbers of innocent people.



But its ok cuz its Bernie!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
39. Fuck. You really are something else. Ugh.
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:40 AM
May 2016

Comparing Bernie to Kissinger is so sick. Pathetic.

 

puffy socks

(1,473 posts)
41. And TRUE
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:42 AM
May 2016

Bernie voted for military action in several countries
But but only Hillary Clinton and Kissinger and Bish horrible Warhawks

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
44. No. It's a bald and vile lie. You are exhibiting either shocking ignorance or shocking
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:46 AM
May 2016

partisanship. Either way, you are exhibiting shocking callousness.

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
146. So now Kissinger will be off limits? The fux?
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:13 PM
May 2016

I don't think so. Who is next, Bush, Cheney? Bowing down to Rove and Koch maybe?

 

puffy socks

(1,473 posts)
47. Aw
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:52 AM
May 2016

It doesn't fit into your little narrative about how horrible Kissinger is and so Clinton being a friend with him of course is a horrible war hawk thang.
I'm sorry if you wanted to skip out on the truth about Bernie
too bad

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
50. Fuck knows why I'm going to try. Forget everything but Kissinger for a minute
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:02 AM
May 2016

Do you know what he designed and carried out in Cambodia? Do you know what he did in Chile? Do you understand that the term war criminal isn't being casually bandied about vis a vis Kissinger.

To see Kissinger only through Hillary colored glasses is so absurd. To actually say that Bernie is like Kissinger responsible for countless deaths due to war crimes he committed is nothing but rabid frothing.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
199. Cali, he calls him self "socks"
Tue May 10, 2016, 04:20 PM
May 2016

What do you expect?

He is here to cause trouble and get Bernie team to blow up and get hides, and he's doing a good job of it, while staying calm himself so that he doesn't get hides. He's experienced at what he's doing. He probably believes in reincarnation too.

Put him on ignore. It never gets any better. I usually won't hide anyone unless they have the yellow tab...but this one is going on ignore for me.



Response to puffy socks (Reply #47)

 

Silver_Witch

(1,820 posts)
71. Kissinger is full of hatred for everyone!
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:31 AM
May 2016

Have you read what he said about Russian Jews. Goggle it! Really it is a fun read! This has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. It is about a man afraid to leave the country because he knows he will be arrested and tried as a war crimal. He knows it, why don't you?

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
77. If you are one of Brock's army, your work on this thread is not worth your salary
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:52 AM
May 2016

It is not "Cali's little narrative about how horrible Kissinger is" - he did some pretty awful things - even if you JUST consider Cambodia and the overthrow of the Allende government in Chile.

If Clinton simply included Kissinger among the many she would seek foreign policy opinions on, you could make the case that, though he is immoral, he also is a brilliant strategist, which is seen in things like his leading on the opening with China -- and all the realignments that caused. Getting his view, in addition to that of many others, on how some options might play out uses that talent and does not preclude considering the ethics or morality of the choices considered as well. (To be clear, no one in their right mind would even ask Kissinger about whether something is moral.)

I have more problem that they vacation together. I know he was considered charming - and even sexy (!) back in the Nixon years, though like most against the war, that was as mystifying as when the same was said of Rumsfeld in the early years of the Iraq war.

Still, Clinton, should and can be judged on her own record -- which is hawkish and which accepts regime change too easily as a solution.

As to Bernie, I will hazard a guess that the OP knows Bernie far better than you do as a long time constituent in a small state that really does demand that its elected officials be accessable ... and I have no idea what negative "truth" you are speaking of.

KPN

(15,647 posts)
105. Are you friggin kidding me?
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:20 AM
May 2016

Defending Kissinger? Equating him to Bernie??

What planet are you from?

 

puffy socks

(1,473 posts)
203. Nobody died in Somalia
Tue May 10, 2016, 04:57 PM
May 2016

due to his votes for S J Res 45 - Authorization for Use of US Armed Forces? Yugoslavia 1999? Kosovo? Libya?the Gaza strip? and apparently Invading Iraq and liberating Iraq was a great idea in 98 when Bernie voted for HR 4655, the Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998, which expressed that it should be the aim of the United States to remove Saddam Hussein from power.
President George W. Bush later used the Iraqi Liberation Act to provide justification for military action for the 2003 invasion.



He voted in favor of a $1 billion aid package for the coup government Ukraine

He supported Israel's assault on Gaza at a town hall meeting.

He voted HR 2159 - Foreign Operations FY98 Appropriations bill, which included: $3 billion for Israel, including $1.8 billion in military assistance and $1.2 billion in economic assistance; $2.12 billion for Egypt, including $1.3 billion in military assistance and $815 million in economic assistance; $770 million for former Soviet Republics; and $215 million for international narcotics control and law enforcement.

Bernie voted for HR 2465, which provided $4 billion for military construction, and he voted for HR 3196, which provided: $2.16 billion for military and economic assistance to Israel; $760 million for military and economic assistance to Egypt; $300 million for military and economic assistance to Jordan; and $285 million for international narcotics control.

He also voted in favor of HR 2800 - Foreign Operations Appropriations, FY 2004 bill, which granted $1.8 billion in military and economic assistance to Egypt and $2.2 billion for Israeli military assistance.


Bernie Sanders' Troubling History of Supporting US Military Violence Abroad
Why aren't we talking about Sanders' foreign policy more?

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-troubling-history-supporting-us-military-violence-abroad




You were saying?

 

puffy socks

(1,473 posts)
214. Answer the question..
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:34 PM
May 2016

Nobody died in Somalia? Yugoslavia 1999? Kosovo? Libya?the Gaza strip?


Sorry to burst your bubble. But he has more "blood on his hands" than Hillary. That's a fact.

KPN

(15,647 posts)
219. Let's see, a member of DU since April 19 (less than 3 weeks)!
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:43 PM
May 2016

Puffysocks is just another paid Hillary hack.

Don't waste your time Berners. Time to deploy the Ignore button.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
277. The question is a lie in itself, inferring that Bernie is uniquely responsible for those deaths
Wed May 11, 2016, 10:10 AM
May 2016

Bill Clinton ring a.bell, puffums?

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
87. What a ridiculous claim ...
Tue May 10, 2016, 10:35 AM
May 2016

Oh ... It's a sock!

A puffy sock? ... Go ahead - take a deep deep breath ....

There you are, puffy sock ... All Comfy and happy?

CLICK!

Take your b.s. elsewhere ...

dgibby

(9,474 posts)
167. Well, if the posts in this thread are
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:53 PM
May 2016

any indication, I think we know what's causing the sock to be puffy.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
115. would you agree that sharing responsibility is very different from being a main driver of
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:39 AM
May 2016

policies that result in so many deaths?

Ford_Prefect

(7,914 posts)
40. This is the same President who said we weren't going to prosecute the war crimes of the Bush Admin.
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:40 AM
May 2016

I don't even want to imagine what the apologists are going to throw at me now.

As far as I am concerned that was one of the worst things President Obama did. This ranks a close second tied with the ongoing drone war.

I can list a number of rather important best things he also has done as president, but that is not the point. Presidents on the whole are a mixed bag and will do things that some who voted for them did not anticipate or approve of.

The distortion of history to suit the 1% view is disturbing and continues the denial over motivations and actions to promote the War in Vietnam, and other imperial aggressions. Along with anointing one of the key architects of the continuing legacy of empire and exceptionalism, it is an offence not only to our own heritage but to the world as well.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
121. Who could be so mind-bogglingly stupid to suggest Bernie Sanders and Henry Kissinger are similar?
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:55 AM
May 2016

That seems to push the boundaries of our very concept of "stupid."

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
45. k&r
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:46 AM
May 2016

anyone paying attention knows that Henry K hasn't ever left Washington DC





The problem is that very few are actually paying attention

A few billion here and a few billion there- who cares, it's your money

"The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican."- President Barack Obama

mikehiggins

(5,614 posts)
49. What happened to Buzz(whatever's) posts? They were disgusting.
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:59 AM
May 2016

Anyone who can see Killinger as anything other than the monster he was should be banned from DU. I really don't give a shit if this gets me alerted or whatever. Me and lots of others lost lots of friends and peers during that man's time of influence and Clinton's sucking up to him is one of the reasons I would never be able to vote for her. Why not praise Pol Pot or any of his ilk? That this man is not in jail is a screaming disgrace, even more than Iraq.

Fuck him and fuck anyone who even suggests that a bottom feeding slug like him should be given any sort of recognition other than time in Leavenworth.

Obama has no shame and he's doing Clinton no favors with this. He has to be expecting the MSM to totally ignore this, and he's probably right to do so. So fuck them too.

Fuck anyone who supports this and anyone who acts like this is any less reprehensible than honoring Hitler.

I cannot express how horrified and sickened and disgusted this makes me feel.

And if any reader doesn't feel the same way then that person is beyond contempt, like Kissinger himself.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
75. the party's been boiled down to a cult: Bush/Trump's bad because he's like Kissinger
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:46 AM
May 2016

but Kissinger's a-okay

it's stood for nothing but "we're against today's Republicans" and in the process turned itself into the party the Republicans were a few years ago, every year

7wo7rees

(5,128 posts)
84. +1000 k and r's if I could!!!
Tue May 10, 2016, 10:17 AM
May 2016

Cali has been attacked relentlessly in this thread.

Look up Amy Goodman re her time in Indonesia, she was there.

I honestly can't believe this. I can't believe Bernie is being brought into this discussion.

Hillary was 25 in 1973 when Kissinger was orchestrating the destruction of Chili.

Why would I want to vote for someone/anyone that holds Kissinger in high regard or proudly speaks of him being a close friend and MENTOR? Beyound my ability to comprehend. Sorry.

Stellar

(5,644 posts)
62. I really get all kinds of P/O when this kind of ish happens but...
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:18 AM
May 2016

he thinks BLM is not that important and they are supposed to just simmer down? WTF!

mucifer

(23,558 posts)
79. Why can't the thread just be about our president honoring a war criminal? Why
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:54 AM
May 2016

does everything have to be about Hillary and Bernie???

BTW this was posted in general discussion.

(BTW I'm a Bernie voter).

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
144. Because Hillary also considers Kissinger a mentor.
Tue May 10, 2016, 01:57 PM
May 2016

And that is deeply problematic to me.

Not sure how Bernie ties in.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
82. There's no words to describe my disgust that anyone would try rehabilitating Kissingers reputation
Tue May 10, 2016, 10:03 AM
May 2016

As if bestowing awards can make anyone forget what a monster he is....

Even more horrifying are folks here defending him under the guise of protecting Hillary. I didn't even make that leap until her hyper partisans attacked you cali, for posting this.

This place has gone through the looking glass.


zentrum

(9,865 posts)
83. I'm disgusted.
Tue May 10, 2016, 10:15 AM
May 2016

It must be to neutralize the horror and toxicity of Kissinger to give cover to HRC's embrace of him?

Shame on our country.

Let's give an award to Dick Cheney while we're at it.

88. Washington consensus
Tue May 10, 2016, 10:45 AM
May 2016

In the twisted context of DC elite cocktail parties, Kissinger is a statesman. Corporate Democrats tend to agree.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
90. Well, Cali...
Tue May 10, 2016, 10:49 AM
May 2016

That tells you exactly what kind of human our POTUS is.

But do you really feel surprise since our POTUS has blood on his hands as well?
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
93. I don't agree, Daneel
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:03 AM
May 2016

This leaves me pained and perplexed but I don't at all see Obama as a bad person.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
118. A die is a die, Cali. Perhaps killing civillians in the fight
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:45 AM
May 2016

against terrorism is different than killing civilians in the fight against communism.

They're still dead...no matter what admin wants to spin it a a moral victory.

To continue US policies where foreign civilians will knowingly get killed us still murder.

Does it matter if the person ordering the hellfire strike is likable ir not.

Sure, Kissenger is a war criminal in my book, but be careful in rationalizing the deaths that the USA is responsible for...and who orders them.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
123. Nuance in this, is a prerequisite.
Tue May 10, 2016, 12:10 PM
May 2016

This is a really hefty philosophical discussion that I don't feel up to tapping out on a tablet.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
148. One can't be a little pregnant.
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:17 PM
May 2016



There are accidental deaths, but if the same accidents keep on happening it is no longer by accident then.
 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
281. If we launch a Hellfire missile at a 'terrorist', and we know that innocent people in the vicinity
Wed May 11, 2016, 05:58 PM
May 2016

will probably be killed as well (even though we hope they won't), were their deaths really accidental?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
285. How would US citizens act if it were Mexico launching
Wed May 11, 2016, 09:18 PM
May 2016

drone strikes at white supremacists houses: killing kids in the process?
 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
286. What we are doing is not self-defence.
Wed May 11, 2016, 09:21 PM
May 2016

What the USA et al is doing is targeting terrorists, with a Presidential kill order, and wasting civilians in the process.

Oops!

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
288. While I agree that it is not the same as direct and imminent self defense,
Wed May 11, 2016, 10:22 PM
May 2016

the fact that self defense is not murder to you, means you do place qualifications on "killing" and there are degrees.

So "killing" that is not what YOU qualify as self-defense, does not rate a degree of difference for you, but for many others it does. And the reason it does, is because it is done to save lives and is no different than hunting down a serial killer and having to "kill" him/her in the process of capturing him/her.

It's kind of like the question of what do you do, if killing someone innocent now, will save many more lives...like the plane that landed in the field instead of hitting it's target on 9/11. If it hit it's target the people on the plane would also die, but many more would die too...so if we were able to shoot it down to save the lives of the "target", would it be better to do that, knowing we are killing everyone aboard?

Thankfully we didn't have to make that decision. The passengers took it into their own hands and killed themselves to save others.

Sometimes that is necessary.

Killing innocents is never a desired outcome, but there is no such thing as "safe" war or "safe" policing or capturing that guarantees that an innocent person might also be killed.

I wish my life were as black and white as yours, but it isn't. Life would be so much simpler. I wish we weren't doing drone strikes. I also wish ISIS (and other terrorist groups) were not killing people all over the world. I guess we could go after them in a full throated war effort, but if we did, many more would die, including innocent civilians. I'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
94. the real thing the obama administration did yesterday was amazing.
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:08 AM
May 2016

Loretta lynch speaking for and to trans-people in a supportive way and suing the NC government.

what petty award ceremony shit is going on affects literally no body.

hueymahl

(2,507 posts)
97. Excellent point
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:12 AM
May 2016

I'm not detracting from Cali's post - honoring that scumbag is horrible, and it makes you question what the hell is going on.

But in the real world, Obama is getting shit done.

Thespian2

(2,741 posts)
99. K & R !!! to the Max...
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:16 AM
May 2016

This creepy old man should be spending quality time in prison...along with loads of other American political leaders...

Keep pointing out the facts about this murdering criminal...

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
114. Actually, among Kissinger's many war crimes . .
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:32 AM
May 2016

deliberately prolonging the Vietnam War so that Nixon could
be elected has to be toward the top of the list.

Five additional years of war - at least another million Vietnamese
dead, an additional 20,000 Americans dead. And all the maimed bodies . .

All this, just to put Nixon in the White House.

What evil.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/?no-ist

Veterans For Peace (and a Vietnam vet)

radical noodle

(8,010 posts)
196. Not a Kissinger lover myself but
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:46 PM
May 2016

what has this to do with him? This was Nixon and Anna Chennault. Nixon hadn't been elected yet.

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
289. The K man personally knew the war was lost . .
Wed May 11, 2016, 11:51 PM
May 2016

but kept it going anyway.

He did not have to do that.

It was not just about the '68 election (but that is a part),
but also what came after . .

Seven more years of brutal, senseless war.

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
116. Kissinger, the Dulles boys, Ivy League, Oxford, etc...all really smart boys who played
Tue May 10, 2016, 11:41 AM
May 2016

the biggest game on earth...EMPIRE...and, in almost all retrospect, were nearly totally wrong about the outcomes of every maneuver they made to control the course of nations...

of, they were effective, all right...at what price of humanity?...at what price for peace?

overthrown governments, destabilized regions, broken economies, endless war...

and we honor them?

tells as much about the bestower(s) as the honoree....

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)
124. A murderous psychopath...
Tue May 10, 2016, 12:16 PM
May 2016

... who should be rotting in prison. As if we needed more proof of our government's total corruption.

Skittles

(153,171 posts)
135. did the part where he overlooked all the Bush Inc. war criminals not give you a clue?
Tue May 10, 2016, 01:03 PM
May 2016

it IS his values

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
142. Obama toasts Poppy Bush: 'We are surely a kinder and gentler nation because of you'
Tue May 10, 2016, 01:53 PM
May 2016



"You've described for us those thousand points of light -- all the people and organizations spread out all across the country who are like stars brightening the lives of those around them," Obama said at the White House. "But given the humility that's defined your life, I suspect it's harder for you to see something that's clear to everybody else around you, and that's how bright a light you shine."

"On behalf of all of us, let me just say that we are surely a kinder and gentler nation because of you, and we can't thank you enough," Obama added.

SOURCE: http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/15/19487988-obama-toasts-bush-we-are-surely-a-kinder-and-gentler-nation-because-of-you


"A kinder, gentler machine-gun hand." -- Neil Young

felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)
136. Republicans didn't disappear, they took over
Tue May 10, 2016, 01:07 PM
May 2016

the Democratic Party--now cementing and defining the Progressive Movement.

We now know who we are, and what we stand for--this for me is a very defining moment. Just as I have had to learn in my own life, rather than engage with destructive types, I need to recognize when it is time to move on and attend to my own needs. I am hoping that Progressives can go through this process of moving on QUICKLY as time is not on our side.

These New Republicans that call themselves Democrats have no desire whatsoever to be influenced by the left, so it is time to put energy elsewhere, and best if we leave them out of it.

Another lesson for us all--is to NEVER FORGET what sociopaths are capable of, to know what influence they have over others--they inspire cruelty and divisiveness and predatory behavior--all of which can be observed here on this very forum and thread for all to see. We have to learn not to be prey and to turn away to do our work.

Blessings and Peace

felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)
153. Those who align with the sociopathic oligarchy
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:31 PM
May 2016

Last edited Tue May 10, 2016, 07:35 PM - Edit history (1)

need to be discerned from those who support peace and human rights, however it can be done, and the Progressive Movement seems to be a result of this.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
283. You've only been here two months
Wed May 11, 2016, 06:38 PM
May 2016

and already have eleven hides? To the camp of yellow buttons with you.

Bye!

BTW, to everyone who is sick of reading some of the uglier posts here, take a hint from me. If they have a yellow button they go on my ignore list. Now they can prattle all they want and I can't see them. If we all did this, the only ones who would see them are the ones who agree with them.

I think many of them would get bored if they couldn't bother us.

bjo59

(1,166 posts)
152. Couldn't agree more. Utterly repellent but
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:30 PM
May 2016

completely predictable. I can't believe that after 8 years, so many people still don't get Obama. I despair over the ahistoricism, the amorality, the narcissism, and the self confident ignorance that this county is mired in.

 

Gomez163

(2,039 posts)
154. The nature of the diplomatic world is that you have to associate with scoundrels.
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:32 PM
May 2016

Both home and abroad. Kissinger is part of that world. You can't be in the State Dept. and not run across either Kissinger, someone who worked for Kissinger, or someone that is a friend of Kissinger.

wendylaroux

(2,925 posts)
163. This person is a war criminal murderer,looks like you are the full moon true believer.
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:43 PM
May 2016

what is wrong with you people.

 

Gomez163

(2,039 posts)
170. You see in this country, you're innocent until proven guilty.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:07 PM
May 2016

So right off the bat you're ignoring the constitution. How does this make you one whit better than him???

 

Gomez163

(2,039 posts)
177. I guess things work differently in Canada.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:15 PM
May 2016

You can just call people war criminals even though they were never convicted of one crime.

I'm glad I don't live there.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
181. I'm glad you don't too.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:18 PM
May 2016

I call people who are disgusting, murdering, torturing war-criminals exactly what they are. You should do a little studying of history and of all those who've been tortured to death, burned alive, bombed and destroyed to justify his debauchery and hatred of certain groups of human beings.

Your sainted Kissinger is lower than a maggot's belly. He should have been frog-marched to The Hague years ago for crimes against humanity.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
183. lmfao.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:19 PM
May 2016
“Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people.” Henry Kissinger


Henry Kissinger or CODEPINK: Who’s the "Low Life Scum"?

Published on
Friday, January 30, 2015
by Common Dreams

byMedea Benjamin

?itok=kzPoqrVc
Alli McCracken, a peace activist with CODEPINK, shows former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger a pair of handcuffs during a protest at a Senate hearing on Thursday. If there was justice in this world, argue human rights activist, Kissinger would be in prison for his role in perpetrating war crimes as opposed to sitting before the Senate Armed Services Committee to offer his assessment of world affairs. (Photo: Courtesy of CODEPINK)

A very angry Senator John McCain denounced CODEPINK activists as “low-life scum” for holding up signs reading “Arrest Kissinger for War Crimes” and dangling handcuffs next to Henry Kissinger’s head during a Senate hearing on January 29. McCain called the demonstration “disgraceful, outrageous and despicable,” accused the protesters of “physically intimidating” Kissinger and apologized profusely to his friend for this “deeply troubling incident.”

But if Senator McCain was really concerned about physical intimidation, perhaps he should have conjured up the memory of the gentle Chilean singer/songwriter Victor Jara. After Kissinger facilitated the September 11, 1973 coup against Salvador Allende that brought the ruthless Augusto Pinochet to power, Victor Jara and 5,000 others were rounded up in Chile’s National Stadium. Jara’s hands were smashed and his nails torn off; the sadistic guards then ordered him to play his guitar. Jara was later found dumped on the street, his dead body riddled with gunshot wounds and signs of torture.




Despite warnings by senior US officials that thousands of Chileans were being tortured and slaughtered, then Secretary of State Kissinger told Pinochet, "You did a great service to the West in overthrowing Allende."

Rather than calling peaceful protesters “despicable”, perhaps Senator McCain should have used that term to describe Kissinger’s role in the brutal 1975 Indonesian invasion of East Timor, which took place just hours after Kissinger and President Ford visited Indonesia. They had given the Indonesian strongman the US green light—and the weapons—for an invasion that led to a 25-year occupation in which over 100,000 soldiers and civilians were killed or starved to death. The UN's Commission for Reception, Truth and Reconciliation in East Timor (CAVR) stated that U.S. "political and military support were fundamental to the Indonesian invasion and occupation" of East Timor.

If McCain could stomach it, he could have read the report by the UN Commission on Human Rights describing the horrific consequences of that invasion. It includes gang rape of female detainees following periods of prolonged sexual torture; placing women in tanks of water for prolonged periods, including submerging their heads, before being raped; the use of snakes to instill terror during sexual torture; and the mutilation of women’s sexual organs, including insertion of batteries into vaginas and burning nipples and genitals with cigarettes. Talk about physical intimidation, Senator McCain!


More: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/01/30/henry-kissinger-or-codepink-whos-low-life-scum

Octafish (54,331 posts)
8. ''The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.''



"The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves... l don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist because of the irresponsibility of its own people."

-- Henry Kissinger on the US-backed coup d'etat in Chile.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Octafish/844


The life and death of Victor Jara – a classic feature from the vaults

The Chilean singer Victor Jara was murdered in the country's military coup 40 years ago this week. This classic NME piece from 1975 – taken from Rock's Backpages – tells the tale of his death, and how the coup came to pass

"We entered through a side door. Outside there were crowds of people waiting. They had lists on the door that said Body X, Mass Killing, with a number – this long list and occasionally a name. Then we entered an enormous room in the morgue which, I suppose, was a sort of hall, not the place where bodies are normally kept. And it was absolutely full of hundreds of bodies of people who had died violently. People of all ages. Mostly working people. Some very young. Some with their arms tied behind their backs still. And with terrible wounds.

"And I had to go through all these bodies trying to find Victor's body. And it wasn't there. Then I had to go up afterwards to the second floor of the morgue – which was the offices, the administration. And here also in a long passage there were lines of bodies. And one of these … I found Victor's body.

"I can tell you the state of Victor's body because he'd obviously been tortured. I mean his body was full of bullet wounds and he had a sort of tremendous hole in his right hip.

"His body was distorted and his hands were hanging from his wrists and I have this vision of Victor's hands that somehow they didn't belong to his body.

"At the same time he'd been beaten over the head and his head was all bloodied and full of bruises. But I don't know if it's any value to say that among all the bodies that I saw, all of whom had died violent deaths, Victor's had, even in death, an expression of rage, of defiance.


http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/sep/18/victor-jara-pinochet-chile-rocks-backpages


AMY GOODMAN: Today we look at another September 11th. It was 40 years ago this week, September 11, 1973, that General Augusto Pinochet ousted Chile’s democratically elected president, Salvador Allende, in a U.S.-backed military coup. The coup began a 17-year repressive dictatorship during which more than 3,000 Chileans were killed. Pinochet’s rise to power was backed by then-President Richard Nixon and his secretary of state and national security adviser, Henry Kissinger.

In 1970, the CIA’s deputy director of plans wrote in a secret memo, quote, "It is firm and continuing policy that Allende be overthrown by a coup. ... It is imperative that these actions be implemented clandestinely and securely so that the USG [that’s the U.S. government] and American hand be well hidden," unquote. That same year, President Nixon ordered the CIA to, quote, "make the economy scream" in Chile to, quote, "prevent Allende from coming to power or [to] unseat him."

After the 1973 coup, General Pinochet remained a close U.S. ally. He was defeated in 1988 referendum and left office in 1990. In 1998, Pinochet was arrested in London on torture and genocide charges on a warrant issued by a Spanish judge, Baltasar Garzón. British authorities later released Pinochet after doctors ruled him physically and mentally unfit to stand trial.

AMY GOODMAN: Just last week, the wife and two daughters of the legendary Chilean folk singer Víctor Jara filed a civil lawsuit in U.S. court against the former military officer they say killed Jara almost exactly 40 years ago. Víctor Jara was shot to death in the midst of the 1973 U.S.-backed coup. First his hands were smashed so he could no longer play the guitar, it is believed. Jara’s accused killer, Pedro Barrientos, has lived in the United States for roughly two decades and is now a U.S. citizen. Jara’s family is suing him under federal laws that allow U.S. courts to hear about human rights abuses committed abroad. Last year, Chilean prosecutors charged Barrientos and another officer with Jara’s murder, naming six others as accomplices.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/9/9/40_years_after_chile_coup_family


nationalize the fed (1,910 posts)
24. Which one would Hillary choose?



Hillary Clinton reviews Henry Kissinger’s ‘World Order’

By Hillary Rodham Clinton
Washington Post.com September 4, 2014

When Americans look around the world today, we see one crisis after another. Russian aggression in Ukraine, extremism and chaos in Iraq and Syria, a deadly epidemic in West Africa, escalating territorial tensions in the East and South China seas, a global economy that still isn’t producing enough growth or shared prosperity — the liberal international order that the United States has worked for generations to build and defend seems to be under pressure from every quarter. It’s no wonder so many Americans express uncertainty and even fear about our role and our future in the world.

In his new book, “World Order,” Henry Kissinger explains the historic scope of this challenge. His analysis, despite some differences over specific policies, largely fits with the broad strategy behind the Obama administration’s effort over the past six years to build a global architecture of security and cooperation for the 21st century.

During the Cold War, America’s bipartisan commitment to protecting and expanding a community of nations devoted to freedom, market economies and cooperation eventually proved successful for us and the world. Kissinger’s summary of that vision sounds pertinent today: “an inexorably expanding cooperative order of states observing common rules and norms, embracing liberal economic systems, forswearing territorial conquest, respecting national sovereignty, and adopting participatory and democratic systems of governance.”

This system, advanced by U.S. military and diplomatic power and our alliances with like-minded nations, helped us defeat fascism and communism and brought enormous benefits to Americans and billions of others. Nonetheless, many people around the world today — especially millions of young people — don’t know these success stories, so it becomes our responsibility to show as well as tell what American leadership looks like.

...Kissinger is a friend, and I relied on his counsel when I served as secretary of state. He checked in with me regularly, sharing astute observations about foreign leaders and sending me written reports on his travels. Though we have often seen the world and some of our challenges quite differently, and advocated different responses now and in the past, what comes through clearly in this new book is a conviction that we, and President Obama, share: a belief in the indispensability of continued American leadership in service of a just and liberal order...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hillary-clinton-reviews-henry-kissingers-world-order/2014/09/04/b280c654-31ea-11e4-8f02-03c644b2d7d0_story.html




Should Henry Kissinger Mentor a Presidential Candidate?

Published on
Friday, February 12, 2016
by Common Dreams

byMedea Benjamin

At the February 11 Democratic Debate, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton had a spirited exchange about an unlikely topic: the 92-year old former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. Sanders berated Clinton for saying that she appreciated the foreign policy mentoring she got from Henry Kissinger. “I happen to believe,” said Sanders, “that Henry Kissinger was one of the most destructive secretaries of state in the modern history of this country.”

In one of Sanders’ rare outbursts of enmity, he added, “I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. I will not take advice from Henry Kissinger. And in fact, Kissinger's actions in Cambodia, when the United States bombed that country, overthrew Prince Sihanouk, created the instability for Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge to come in, who then butchered some three million innocent people, was one of the worst genocides in the history of the world. So count me in as somebody who will not be listening to Henry Kissinger.”

Clinton went on to defend Kissinger, using the example of China. “His opening up China and his ongoing relationships with the leaders of China is an incredibly useful relationship for the United States of America,” she insisted.

Sanders responded that Kissinger scared Americans about communist China, then opened up trade so U.S. corporations could dump American workers and hire exploited, repressed Chinese.

Full article: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/02/12/should-henry-kissinger-mentor-presidential-candidate


Emails expose close ties between Hillary Clinton and accused war criminal Henry Kissinger



“I greatly admire the skill and aplomb with which you conduct our foreign policy,” wrote Henry Kissinger in a 2012 letter to “the Honorable Hillary Rodham Clinton.” The compliment was included as a handwritten postscript added to the printed letter.

Kissinger met regularly with Secretary Clinton, and applauded her hawkish foreign policy in a handwritten message

BEN NORTON AND JARED FLANERY

“Kissinger is a friend, and I relied on his counsel when I served as secretary of state,” Clinton revealed in the review. “He checked in with me regularly, sharing astute observations about foreign leaders and sending me written reports on his travels.”


http://www.salon.com/2016/01/12/emails_expose_close_ties_between_hillary_clinton_and_accused_war_criminal_henry_kissinger/


Greece, Cyprus, Sanders and Dignity

By Dimitris Konstantakopoulos
Source: Defend Democracy Press
April 16, 2016

Bernie Sanders represents a great hope for Greece and for the whole world. We do not know if he can win against Clinton in the race for the Democratic nomination. What’s more, we don’t know if he could ever be elected US president or what he would do if he is ever elected. Sanders, unlike our own Greek politicians – those unbelievable hijackers of the values Left has proclaimed and of the heritage of heroic struggles its partisans have given – has repeatedly said that he will not be able to do anything unless the people help him to do it. In fact, only the people can do something, with his help!

But, in any case, the emergence, for the first time in many decades, in the United States, of a strong public opinion current, opposing the omnipotence of the financial capital and the neoliberal economic model, a model already evolving into a kind of “destructive capitalism”, is something that should attract the attention of any thinking person on the planet. This is even truer for Greeks in Greece, in Cyprus and throughout the world, given that we are at the forefront of the attack launched by the forces of the Finance and that our nation’s very existence and dignity are threatened by them. I wonder what we are waiting for, like the Rayahs of our history, before we finally decide to react. Are we going to wait until we become another Syria (in our case, by the use of economic and political methods) or until Greece is totally “squashed” and Cyprus is fully taken apart through a new Annan plan (as they already plan to do right after the Cypriot parliamentary elections)? It will be very late by then.

And yet, here we have, in the most powerful country in the world, a politician who, repeatedly and of his own accord, guided only by his political ideas and beliefs, has defended Greece in a way that no Greek politician has ever done, without expecting anything in return. By exposing the international financial system and the dreadful attack it unleashed against Greece, first directly and then by manipulating, in partnership with the German government, the rest of Europe to follow suit (1). But we, on our part, we remain simply indifferent to what is happening in the States with Sanders. Is there any chance that we will manage to save ourselves in this way? Absolutely no chance!


Henry Kissinger – the “killer” of Cyprus

A particularly ironic and tragic aspect of the story is that Sanders strongly criticised Hillary Clinton for her statement characterising Henry Kissinger as her mentor. Kissinger is one of “the most destructive figures in American history” said Sanders (5).

Kissinger is not just any random person in the history of Cyprus. He is in fact the perpetrator of the crimes committed against Cyprus, the organiser of the coup there in 1974, of the attempted murder of Archbishop Makarios and of the ensuing Turkish invasion which ensued. (4) How could it ever be possible that Greeks would support the self-proclaimed student of Kissinger against the one who criticises him? We are lost for words..


Full article: https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/greece-cyprus-sanders-and-dignity/

Pilger - From Pol Pot to ISIS: The blood never dried

John Pilger

16 November 2015


Following the ISIS outrages in Beirut and Paris, John Pilger updates this prescient essay on the root causes of terrorism and what we can do about it.

As a witness to the human consequences of aerial savagery - including the beheading of victims, their parts festooning trees and fields - I am not surprised by the disregard of memory and history, yet again. A telling example is the rise to power of Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge, who had much in common with today's Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS). They, too, were ruthless medievalists who began as a small sect. They, too, were the product of an American-made apocalypse, this time in Asia.

According to Pol Pot, his movement had consisted of "fewer than 5,000 poorly armed guerrillas uncertain about their strategy, tactics, loyalty and leaders". Once Nixon's and Kissinger's B-52 bombers had gone to work as part of "Operation Menu", the west's ultimate demon could not believe his luck. The Americans dropped the equivalent of five Hiroshimas on rural Cambodia during 1969-73. They leveled village after village, returning to bomb the rubble and corpses. The craters left giant necklaces of carnage, still visible from the air. The terror was unimaginable. A former Khmer Rouge official described how the survivors "froze up and they would wander around mute for three or four days. Terrified and half-crazy, the people were ready to believe what they were told... That was what made it so easy for the Khmer Rouge to win the people over." A Finnish Government Commission of Inquiry estimated that 600,000 Cambodians died in the ensuing civil war and described the bombing as the "first stage in a decade of genocide". What Nixon and Kissinger began, Pol Pot, their beneficiary, completed. Under their bombs, the Khmer Rouge grew to a formidable army of 200,000.

ISIS has a similar past and present. By most scholarly measure, Bush and Blair's invasion of Iraq in 2003 led to the deaths of at least 700,000 people - in a country that had no history of jihadism. The Kurds had done territorial and political deals; Sunni and Shia had class and sectarian differences, but they were at peace; intermarriage was common. Three years before the invasion, I drove the length of Iraq without fear. On the way I met people proud, above all, to be Iraqis, the heirs of a civilization that seemed, for them, a presence.

Bush and Blair blew all this to bits. Iraq is now a nest of jihadism. Al-Qaeda - like Pol Pot's "jihadists" - seized the opportunity provided by the onslaught of 'Shock and Awe' and the civil war that followed. "Rebel" Syria offered even greater rewards, with CIA and Gulf state ratlines of weapons, logistics and money running through Turkey. The arrival of foreign recruits was inevitable. A former British ambassador, Oliver Miles, wrote, "The [Cameron] government seems to be following the example of Tony Blair, who ignored consistent advice from the Foreign Office, MI5 and MI6 that our Middle East policy - and in particular our Middle East


The only effective opponents of ISIS are accredited demons of the west - Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and now Russia. The obstacle is Turkey, an "ally" and a member of Nato, which has conspired with the CIA, MI6 and the Gulf medievalists to channel support to the Syrian "rebels", including those now calling themselves ISIS. Supporting Turkey in its long-held ambition for regional dominance by overthrowing the Assad government beckons a major conventional war and the horrific dismemberment of the most ethnically diverse state in the Middle East.


More than 40 years ago, the Nixon-Kissinger bombing of Cambodia unleashed a torrent of suffering from which that country has never recovered. The same is true of the Blair-Bush crime in Iraq, and the Nato and "coalition" crimes in Libya and Syria. With impeccable timing, Henry Kissinger's latest self-serving tome has been released with its satirical title, "World Order". In one fawning review, Kissinger is described as a "key shaper of a world order that remained stable for a quarter of a century". Tell that to the people of Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Chile, East Timor and all the other victims of his "statecraft". Only when "we" recognise the war criminals in our midst and stop denying ourselves the truth will the blood begin to dry.


Full article: http://johnpilger.com/articles/from-pol-pot-to-isis-the-blood-never-dried


Ken Burch (41,182 posts)

This final message, from one of those affected by Henry Kissinger's "liberal" worldview:



(These are the last words Victor ever wrote, after being arrested for singing truth by the Kissinger imposed military junta that replaced the democratic socialist government led by Salvador Allende in September of 1973-Chile's 9/11.....the poem ends abruptly, as the soldiers take Victor away to beat and torture him to death-a task they spent two days completing. he was also making a tune for the song at the moment the guards lead him off).

(on edit: The words are being read on the recording by Adrian Mitchell, who would later be the Poet Laureate of Britain).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511163652

Ichingcarpenter (36,626 posts)
5. Kissinger, Apartheid, Cuba and Steven Biko

Don't forget Kissinger REVERSED JFK's policies and for that matter LBJ's anti apartheid policies under Nixon

This one is documented too....... talk about a racist asshole.

Kissinger's 'Tar Baby' memo: http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=1215

He also wanted to bomb Cuba for their support in Angola.

BBC : Henry Kissinger 'considered Cuba air strikes' in 1976

http://www.bbc.com/news/29441281

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1163802


America Keeps Honoring One of Its Worst Mass Murderers: Henry Kissinger

Including ten quotes that illustrate his megalomania and indifference to the deaths of untold numbers of civilians.
By Fred Branfman / AlterNet April 16, 2013

Henry Kissinger's quote recently released by Wikileaks,"the illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer", likely brought a smile to his legions of elite media, government, corporate and high society admirers. Oh that Henry! That rapier wit! That trademark insouciance! That naughtiness! It is unlikely, however, that the descendants of his more than 6 million victims in Indochina, and Americans of conscience appalled by his murder of non-Americans, will share in the amusement. For his illegal and unconstitutional actions had real-world consequences: the ruined lives of millions of Indochinese innocents in a new form of secret, automated, amoral U.S. Executive warfare which haunts the world until today.

And his conduct raises even more fundamental questions: to what extent can leaders who act secretly ,illegally and unconstitutionally, lying to their citizenry and legislature as a matter of course, legitimately claim to represent their people? How much allegiance do citizens owe such leaders? And what does it say about America’s elites that they have honored a man with so much innocent blood on his hands for the past 40 years?

Mr. Kissinger's most significant historical act was executing Richard Nixon's orders to conduct the most massive bombing campaign, largely of civilian targets, in world history. He dropped 3.7 million tons of bombs** between January 1969 and January 1973 - nearly twice the two million dropped on all of Europe and the Pacific in World War II. He secretly and illegally devastated villages throughout areas of Cambodia inhabited by a U.S. Embassy-estimated two million people; quadrupled the bombing of Laos and laid waste to the 700-year old civilization on the Plain of Jars; and struck civilian targets throughout North Vietnam - Haiphong harbor, dikes, cities, Bach Mai Hospital - which even Lyndon Johnson had avoided. His aerial slaughter helped kill, wound or make homeless an officially-estimated six million human beings**, mostly civilians who posed no threat whatsoever to U.S. national security and had committed no offense against it.

There is a word for the aerial mass murder that Henry Kissinger committed in Indochina, and that word is “evil”. The figure most identified with this word today is Adolph Hitler, and his evil was so unspeakable that the term is by now identified with him. But that is precisely why it is important to understand the new face of evil and moral depravity that Henry Kissinger represents. For evil not only comes in the form of madmen dreaming of 1000 year Reichs. In fact, in our day, it is more likely to be committed by sane, genial and ordinary careerists waging invisible automated war in far-off lands against people whose screams we never hear, whose faces we never see, and whose deaths go unrecorded and unnoticed. It is critical to understand this new face of evil, for it threatens not only countless foreigners but Americans in coming years. And no one has embodied it more than Henry Kissinger.

The planes he dispatched came by day. They came by night. Remorseless. Pitiless. Relentless. Day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. Most of the people below had no idea where the bombers came from, why their lives had been turned into a living hell. The movie "War of the Worlds", in which Americans are incomprehensibly slaughtered by machines is the closest depiction of what the innocent rice-farmers of Indochina experienced.

Hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam were forced to live in holes and caves, like animals. Many tens of thousands were burned alive by the bombs, slowly dying in agony. Others were buried alive, as they gradually suffocated to death when a 500 pound bomb exploded nearby. Most were victims of antipersonnel bombs designed primarily to maim not kill, many of the survivors carrying the metal, jagged or plastic pellets in their bodies for the rest of their lives.

Fathers like 38-year old Thao Vong were suddenly blinded or crippled for life as they lost an arm or leg, made helpless, unable to support their families, becoming dependent on others just to stay alive. Children were struck, lying out in the open, screaming, villagers unable to come to their aid for fear of being killed themselves. No one was spared - neither sweet, loving grandmothers nor lovely young women, neither laughing, innocent children nor nursing or pregnant mothers, not water buffalo needed to farm not the shrines where people had for centuries honored their ancestors and hoped one day to be honored themselves.


Full article: http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/america-keeps-honoring-one-its-worst-mass-murderers-henry-kissinger


The Trials of Henry Kissinger




Henry Kissinger's Legacy of War Crimes Exposed

polly7

(20,582 posts)
193. I call people who've lied and deceived to slaughter millions - evil, ugly, warmongering criminals.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:33 PM
May 2016

If you have a problem with that - call the cops.

bjo59

(1,166 posts)
255. Associate with "scoundrels" indeed.
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:50 PM
May 2016

With Kissinger widely viewed as a war criminal, the term "scoundrel" takes on a new meaning here. But then in "the real world," up means down, left means right, and peace means war. The Obama administration's foreign policy (responsible for millions of dispossessed, maimed, and murdered civilians) reeks of Henry Kissinger's Machiavellian philosophy and it's no surprise that it would merit Kissinger's years of so-called public service worthy of the highest esteem. Can we perhaps even expect a "second coming" of Henry Kissinger in the role of Clinton's Secretary of State should she find herself back in the White House? Forget the State Department, she can't even be on Christmas vacation without running across Kissinger:

**** The Clintons and Kissingers appear to spend a chunk of their quality time together at that de la Renta estate in the Punta Cana resort. Last year, the Associated Press noted that this is where the Clintons take their annual Christmas holiday. And other press reports in the United States and the Dominican Republic have pointed out that the Kissingers are often part of the gang the de la Rentas have hosted each year. When Oscar de la Renta died in 2014, the New York Times obituary reported:

At holidays, the de la Rentas filled their house in Punta Cana with relatives and friends, notably Bill and Hillary Clinton, Nancy and Henry Kissinger, and the art historian John Richardson. The family dogs had the run of the compound, and Mr. de la Renta often sang spontaneously after dinner. First-time visitors, seeking him out in the late afternoon, were surprised to find him in the staff quarters, hellbent on winning at dominoes.

...Last April, the Weekly Standard noted that the Clintons had spent a week around the previous New Year's at Punta Canta and that Secret Service protection for the trip had cost $104,000. It was during this vacation that Hillary Clinton reportedly decided to run for president for the second time.****
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/hillary-clinton-kissinger-vacation-dominican-republic-de-la-renta

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
156. Whhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:32 PM
May 2016


Talk about a head busting wide open. Ouch!

WTF? Did anyone know this was happening YESTERDAY? Vox did, apparently. Were there other media orgs there too? Did anyone see this story anywhere else, last night or today? I have been listening to TV for a bit today, but have not heard anything on the HK story there yet.

Shame on PO. Shame. Looks like kowtowing to someone to me. PO should have left well enough alone. If Ash Carter (or whomever) had asked me to go along with his proposal of honoring (bowing to) Henry Kissinger, I would have slapped him across the face and fired him on the spot!

One step forward, two steps back. I don't like this waltz. It's more like a rumba, right out the back door. And such are our lives. Our lives. Too much bad and not enough good. That's what I think. :banghead For this reason, and for my own safety, I can't read this thread right now. Maybe later this evening when I've settled down some.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
166. Yup...
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:52 PM
May 2016

... that's why my head exploded and the reason I can't read the thread for a while. To me, HK is Satin incarnate. Have thought thus so since Nixon and him was blowing up the effing world. When they awarded him with the effing Nobel Peace Prize, I was ready to sell everything and move to an innocent mountainous area, where no natural resources laid beneath me.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
179. Hey, that sounds like a good idea...
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:17 PM
May 2016

... I've been meaning to bake some banana bread loaves. I buy bananas and they get too ripe. I throw them out and get some more and wait till they get to the ideal state of "just ripeness." I need to get up and do it and let the bad news rest for a while.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
176. You need to think about what you're saying. Age does not exonerate or ameliorate.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:14 PM
May 2016

How dare countries have prosecuted old feeble Concentration Camp guards?

I am simply going to assume you are woefully ignorant rather than callously indifferent. The evidence is overwhelming.

 

Gomez163

(2,039 posts)
178. He's never been charged with one crime. I'm not defending him.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:16 PM
May 2016

But you are leaping to conclusions that have not been ever formally established.

gordianot

(15,242 posts)
187. Nor has anyone charged Cheney or the Bush family.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:25 PM
May 2016

Kissinger like more than a few others watches where they travel.

 

Gomez163

(2,039 posts)
189. There is a reason why not. You may not like it.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:28 PM
May 2016

It would not be a good idea to prosecute your predecessors because when you leave power, your successor may do the same to you.

gordianot

(15,242 posts)
198. They try anyway failing that just shut down the Government.
Tue May 10, 2016, 04:11 PM
May 2016

Call the President a liar in the State of the Union address. Impeach a President (who I really do not like) over a blow job. Kissinger had it coming he does not in the least deserve accolades from any sitting President.

That sounds suspiciously like a defense to me.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
190. From the National Security Archives
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:30 PM
May 2016

Washington, D.C., September 11, 2013 – Henry Kissinger urged President Richard Nixon to overthrow the democratically elected Allende government in Chile because his "'model' effect can be insidious," according to documents posted today by the National Security Archive. The coup against Allende occurred on this date 40 years ago. The posted records spotlight Kissinger's role as the principal policy architect of U.S. efforts to oust the Chilean leader, and assist in the consolidation of the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile.

The documents, which include transcripts of Kissinger's "telcons" — telephone conversations — that were never shown to the special Senate Committee chaired by Senator Frank Church in the mid 1970s, provide key details about the arguments, decisions, and operations Kissinger made and supervised during his tenure as national security adviser and secretary of state.

"These documents provide the verdict of history on Kissinger's singular contribution to the denouement of democracy and rise of dictatorship in Chile," said Peter Kornbluh who directs the Chile Documentation Project at the National Security Archive. "They are the evidence of his accountability for the events of forty years ago."

<snip>
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB437/

Regarding the illegal bombing of Cambodia:

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/10/henry_kissingers_genocidal_legacy_partner/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu

There is so much more.

Shame on you.

 

Gomez163

(2,039 posts)
208. Not defending him. I'm just correcting someone using the typical
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:17 PM
May 2016

Kissinger is a criminal talking point because convictions should mean something and their absence should mean something too.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
218. Stop defending a war criminal
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:41 PM
May 2016

And yes, you did defend him. Such as trying to make his age an issue, and playing semantics. He committed crimes against humanity. Not being convicted does not mean he didn't do the crimes. The evidence is there. You were all for "digging up" dead Joe Paterno to indict him when evidence of his crime came to light. I don't see you running around chastising people for calling other unconvinced criminals like Paterno, Cheney, Bush, and others what they are. Why is Kissinger so special to you? Why have you never felt that precise distinction was important previously?

 

Gomez163

(2,039 posts)
220. Please provide a link to a criminal conviction for Kissinger.
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:44 PM
May 2016

And I was consistent with Paterno. I wanted to try him. Need a body for that.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
228. Still would like to know why you're such a big fan of his
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:56 PM
May 2016

Why this one war criminal is so special to you as to warrant defending.

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
236. No. I won't let crimes of a war criminal go. That's despicable.
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:42 PM
May 2016

Nor will I celebrate him. Ask the good people of Chile all about him.

With attitudes like that, It's no wonder why the neo-cons are now welcomed in the the Democratic Party. I can't wait for the laurels and celebrations of
Dick Cheney and the DNC.

When people excuse and defend war criminals - you've lost ANY moral high ground.

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
238. OMG - do you even know who you're defending? I'm embarrassed for you.
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:46 PM
May 2016

Now I know how people like Cheney get away with their crimes - apologists like this.

 

Gomez163

(2,039 posts)
239. The law is the law. You cant just make up charges. You accept as true that
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:49 PM
May 2016

he is a criminal w/o any proof. You wouldnt like it if someone did it to you

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
240. So this is what "Brocking the record" looks like.
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:52 PM
May 2016

Tragic how history is lost and people defend the indefensible. Kissinger's horrible legacy speaks for itself- regardless of the horrendous and unforgivable attempt "Brock the record".

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
243. Not falling for this. Im sorry that I took this exchange seriously at first.
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:57 PM
May 2016

It least I wasted someone's money tonight.

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
188. Let's see Clinton they think will be President and her buddy is now getting an award.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:26 PM
May 2016

I will not say what I am thinking.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
206. Yeah, absolutely disgusting
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:12 PM
May 2016

At bare minimum I would think we could at least pretend he doesn't exist considering the crimes he committed. Apparently mass murder doesn't even warrant a cold shoulder. Instead we give that old piece of trash an award.

Progressive dog

(6,915 posts)
209. The evidence does not support calling Kissinger a war criminal
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:21 PM
May 2016

The standard of actually requiring evidence beyond a reasonable doubt should apply to all Americans, even those you don't like.

Progressive dog

(6,915 posts)
216. It sure doesn't, in the USA people are charged and convicted before
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:39 PM
May 2016

they are called criminals. Only authoritarians and authoritarian wannabes get to decide based on their reading of "history".

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
217. The evidence is overwhelming. There are many links in this thread
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:41 PM
May 2016

That he wasn't charged is not exculpatory.

Progressive dog

(6,915 posts)
222. The evidence is overwhelming in your mind,
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:49 PM
May 2016

but Kissinger has not been charged by anyone in a position to do so. Since you are not judge or jury ( and we need those in the USA) you don't get to do it. Apparently everyone in authority disagreed with you.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
229. No. It's in the National Security Archives. Link upthread
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:59 PM
May 2016

And much more evidence is linked to in this thread.

Your ignorance of history is not an argument. Nor do you provide links to evidence supporting your position.

Progressive dog

(6,915 posts)
234. You don't seem to understand what evidence actually is.
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:18 PM
May 2016

The archives were not enough for a prosecutor and they were not enough for our President (who is an expert on Constitutional law).

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
242. Oh please. You are not refuting a thing. What a joke your posts are
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:55 PM
May 2016

No links. Nothing that substantiated your defense of Kissinger

Progressive dog

(6,915 posts)
274. Truth is not about support cited,
Wed May 11, 2016, 07:42 AM
May 2016

just like belief is not fact, and accusations are not convictions.

Progressive dog

(6,915 posts)
233. When I'm on Kissinger's jury,
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:14 PM
May 2016

I will worry about his guilt. I believe in the US system of justice, where you are innocent until proven guilty.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,771 posts)
212. Remember the rationalization for ignoring Bush & Cheyney era
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:27 PM
May 2016

war criminals?

During his 2008 campaign for president, Obama repeatedly vowed that, while he opposed "partisan witch-hunts", he would instruct his attorney general to "immediately review" the evidence of criminality in these torture programs because "nobody is above the law." Yet, almost immediately after winning the 2008 election, Obama, before he was even inaugurated, made clear that he was opposed to any such investigations, citing what he called "a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/31/obama-justice-department-immunity-bush-cia-torturer

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
235. That our Democratic president honors those who create and order acts of Genocide is telling of
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:38 PM
May 2016

the seriousness of the sickness and arrogance of imperialistic power-makers. Neither deserve a peace prize of any sort.

Response to cali (Original post)

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
245. I don't even remotely worship my Senator. And are you so... that you can't understand
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:07 PM
May 2016

that this trancends Sanders, Clinton and President Obama? Clearly so.

And without a scrap of respect, Comparing Bernie Sanders to Kissinger is some sick, partisan nonsense. It is contemptible.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
246. Jury results
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:11 PM
May 2016

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert
On Tue May 10, 2016, 07:07 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Cali, you worship a man who has repeatedly praised the Castros, Sandinistas, and Soviets.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7822204

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Cali, you worship a man who has repeatedly praised the Castros, Sandinistas, and Soviets.
With all due respect, you're full of shit.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue May 10, 2016, 07:10 PM, and voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: personal attack. Hint: if you have to put "with all due respect," at the beginning of a sentence, you are pretty much telegraphing that you believe that "all due" = NULL. Please remember your manners.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This entire thread is one insult after another.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Personal attack.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
250. Heck even ol Bill Cosby had a line on him (when I listened to him. his skits are okay , just he isn'
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:04 PM
May 2016

t


Never considered Obama that Liberal. He was supposed to be a bridge to bring Republicans across and he did that by and large , alas the super right wing came to power and negated alot of that. Horrifying yes. Unexpected ? No!

neverforget

(9,436 posts)
266. Kissinger Drew Up Plans to Attack Cuba
Wed May 11, 2016, 01:19 AM
May 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/01/world/americas/kissinger-drew-up-plans-to-attack-cuba-records-show.html

Secretary of State Henry A. Kissinger, with President Gerald R. Ford, was angered by Fidel Castro’s 1975 incursion into Angola

MIAMI — Nearly 40 years ago, Secretary of State Henry A. Kissinger mapped out secret contingency plans to launch airstrikes against Havana and “smash Cuba,” newly disclosed government documents show.

Mr. Kissinger was so irked by Cuba’s military incursion into Angola that in 1976 he convened a top-secret group of senior officials to work out possible retaliatory measures in case Cuba deployed forces to other African nations, according to documents declassified by the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library at the request of the National Security Archive, a research group.

The officials outlined plans to strike ports and military installations in Cuba and to send Marine battalions to the United States Navy base at Guantánamo Bay to “clobber” the Cubans, as Mr. Kissinger put it, according to the records. Mr. Kissinger, the documents show, worried that the United States would look weak if it did not stand up to a country of just eight million people.

“I think sooner or later we are going to have to crack the Cubans,” Mr. Kissinger told President Ford at a meeting in the Oval Office in 1976, according to a transcript.
-------
The plans suggest that Mr. Kissinger was prepared after the 1976 presidential election to recommend an attack on Cuba, but the idea went nowhere because Jimmy Carter won the election, Mr. LeoGrande said.

“These were not plans to put up on a shelf,” Mr. LeoGrande said. “Kissinger is so angry at Castro sending troops to Angola at a moment when he was holding out his hand for normalization that he really wants to, as he said, ‘clobber the pipsqueak.' ”


He sure loved war, just like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of today's neocons

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
267. Well, you know, he also called American torturers "patriots". So...
Wed May 11, 2016, 03:49 AM
May 2016

He's so wrong on so many big things. I remember how elated I was when he got elected and then it was all downhill from there.

.

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
280. Wow! Defending that piece of crap.
Wed May 11, 2016, 05:45 PM
May 2016

I didn't even know about this thread. I had my say the other day on GD-P when the article first appeared:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511931210#post36

Check this out, especially Viet Nam vets:
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason

I wonder what Kerry thinks about this. On second thought, maybe I don't want to know.

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