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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCalls Grow For Dick Cheney and George W. Bush To Be Prosecuted For Torture
http://www.politicususa.com/2014/12/09/calls-grow-dick-cheney-george-w-bush-prosecuted-torture.htmlCalls Grow For Dick Cheney and George W. Bush To Be Prosecuted For Torture
By: Jason Easley
Tuesday, December, 9th, 2014, 8:43 pm
A top international official is calling for the criminal prosecution of top members of the Bush administration for torture and other war crimes.
United Nations Special Rapporteur on counter terrorism and human rights, Ben Emmerson called for prosecutions of former Bush administration officials at the highest levels,
The fact that the policies revealed in this report were authorised at a high level within the US Government provides no excuse whatsoever. Indeed, it reinforces the need for criminal accountability.
International law prohibits the granting of immunities to public officials who have engaged in acts of torture. This applies not only to the actual perpetrators but also to those senior officials within the US Government who devised, planned and authorised these crimes.
As a matter of international law, the US is legally obliged to bring those responsible to justice. The UN Convention Against Torture and the UN Convention on Enforced Disappearances require States to prosecute acts of torture and enforced disappearance where there is sufficient evidence to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction. States are not free to maintain or permit impunity for these grave crimes.
It is no defence for a public official to claim that they were acting on superior orders. CIA officers who physically committed acts of torture therefore bear individual criminal responsibility for their conduct, and cannot hide behind the authorisation they were given by their superiors.
snip//
The odds of the Bush administration officials being turned over for prosecution are zero, but those who have referred to the Bush administration as war criminals have new justifications for their claims.
They also have the agreement of the international community that what George W. Bush and Dick Cheney engaged in was criminal, and officials in their administration deserve to be prosecuted.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)There is no halfway on this. There is right and there is wrong. Which side will our President stand with?
CincyDem
(6,357 posts)Hekate
(90,681 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)And yes, the POTUS is also guilty, though in a somewhat smaller degree.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)malaise
(268,993 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)The same BHO that strengthened the Patriot Act and the NSA/CIA Security state. The same BHO that tried to stonewall this very report.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Willful ignorance or deliberate omission.
Either way, the agenda is transparent and tiresome.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)babylonsister
(171,065 posts)this thread is about- go start your own. Thanks!
blm
(113,059 posts).
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)We already knew the Bush Crime Family was a bunch of war criminals. The question is whether they'll be turned over for prosecution. If not Obama, who else would do it, Joe Arpaio?
Not to be a jerk or hijack the thread...
MynameisBlarney
(2,979 posts)And the CIA going absolutely insane with power.
calimary
(81,261 posts)duhneece
(4,112 posts)I was flummoxed for words
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)I think he will.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)of Chelsea Manning and the force feeding of Guantanamo hunger strikers to be torture.
The Obama administration was also under obligation to the UN treaty on torture to prosecute torturers, not "look forward."
Before you were making excuses for the administration's refusal to prosecute bankers, and now you're apologizing for accessories to torture.
Interesting.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Just direct evidence to disprove your claim that Obama ended the illegality.
The torture continued under the Obama administration, while Eric Holder failed to prosecute the Bush administration.
Carry on with your support for fraudulent bankers and torturers.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Too easy.
Frankly, I've become bored with you. Your posts offer nothing but to indicate the depths of your ignorance (deep.) Enough time wasted here, I'm out.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)But he can change that. His move.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Sopkoviak
(357 posts)For the last several weeks, a hunger strike has been spreading throughout Guantanamo, as detainees refuse to accept food what is now widely understood as a protest of their indefinite detention. In response, the military has begun force-feeding several of the inmates through a nasal tube to keep them alive. According to AFP, the United Nations main human rights office has taken notice:
If its perceived as torture or inhuman treatment and its the case, its painful then it is prohibited by international law, Rupert Coville, spokesman for the UN high commissioner for human rights, told AFP.
A bipartisan task force on detainees assembled by the Constitution Project earlier this month condemned force-feeding and one member also suggested that it could be torture. The World Medical Association and international officials have clearly identified that process as cruel, in human and degrading treatment, said Dr. Gerald Thomson. And given the level of brutality could extend to torture.
So are we ready to have president Obama prosecuted too based on what some guy at the UN says?
Well are we?
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/05/01/1946641/un-gitmo-torture/
okaawhatever
(9,461 posts)have been cleared to leave (almost all of them) but their home countries won't take them back and we can't find other countries willing to take them. Uruguay just took 6 and Qatar took a few, but no other country wants to take them.
I hardly think force feeding is torture. Either that or I don't have the same definition of torture as the UN.
niyad
(113,302 posts)or you could not make that statement.
what the UN says:
. . .
The UN Human Rights Commission said it regards force-feeding at Guantanamo as a form of torture and the World Medical Association specifically prohibited force-feeding in its Declaration of Tokyo.
. . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_force_feeding
from alice paul, about her forced feeding in holloway jail
I practiced a hunger strike until November 11th. After that date they fed me twice a day by force, except on one day when I was too ill to be touched. I have no complaints against the Holloway officials. I spent the whole time in bed, because I refused to wear prison clothes. Each day I was wrapped in blankets and taken to another cell to be fed, the food being injected through my nostrils.
During this operation the largest wardress in Holloway sat astride my knees, holding my shoulders down to keep me from bending forward. Two other wardresses sat on either side and held my arms. Then a towel was placed around my throat and one doctor from behind forced my head back, while another doctor put a tube in my nostril. When it reached my throat my head was pushed forward.
Twice the tube came through my mouth and I got it between my teeth. My mouth was then pried open with an instrument. Sometimes they tied me to a chair with sheets. Once I managed to get my hands loose and snatched the tube, tearing it with my teeth. I also broke a jug, but I didnt give in.
or, you could watch "iron-jawed angels" for a very graphic example of what forced feeding is, and then get back to us.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)BobbyBoring
(1,965 posts)Try an oatmeal enema!
daleanime
(17,796 posts)too much chance he'll enjoy it, just let him be force feed once.
tblue
(16,350 posts)Pls Google some info & pics of it. I would do it for you but I am honestly too squeamish. It's as nasty as could be. I doubt you'd want it done to your loved ones.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)louis-t
(23,292 posts)Sopkoviak
(357 posts)As to what constitutes torture I'd guess you'd have to take that up with them.
Overseas
(12,121 posts)Old Codger
(4,205 posts)As a country and Obama's sole chance to prove he means it when he says we a re a nation of laws and in the process live up to his oath of office is to turn the justice department loose on cheney,bush,rice and rumsfeldt... if there remains even a vestigal of respect for this country(which I doubt) this is our only chance to reaffirm our countries origin and goals.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)had knowledge of these atrocities and went along willingly after 911, I guess they were afraid of being smeared as weak on TERRA...
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)0rganism
(23,952 posts)the GOP dominates the news media, and for the next 2 years they'll dominate the federal gov't. they have an incredibly powerful messaging machine that's increasingly effective in the midwest.
i'll be surprised if, by 2016, they haven't found a way to pin the whole mess on Obama.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)SylviaD
(721 posts)aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)rurallib
(62,414 posts)isn't that one of the very basic tenets of our democracy? Be he (or she) a King or a pauper all should be treated equally before the law.
Saying that they "did not know torture was illegal" is pure crap. Could I get away with saying I did not know that paying taxes was a law?
tblue
(16,350 posts)niyad
(113,302 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 10, 2014, 12:30 AM - Edit history (1)
... sign the United States up to the ICC (International Criminal Court) and let International Law take it's course. Period. If our elected officials can't do what needs to be done, then let the ICC handle it. The only reason we aren't signed up to it is so we, the United States of America, can get away with murder, domestically and globally. Period.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)The Rome Statute that established the ICC is a treaty. The United States actually signed the treaty in 2000. https://treaties.un.org/pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XVIII-10&chapter=18&lang=en
Treaties need to be ratified by the Senate. The Rome Statute never was. If you think that it ever will be ratified under President Barack Obama, think again, given the results of the 2014 elections.
The US, however, has gone even further than that in actually rejecting the Rome Statute. Under BushCo (the loathsome John Bolton), the US notified the UN Secretary-General in 2002 that it no longer intends to become a state party to the Statute and, as such, has no legal obligations arising from Bill Clinton's signature of the Statute. http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2002/9968.htm
But it is true that if we cannot do something about war criminals in our own "justice" system, then they should be treated as international criminals, whether we are signatory parties to the treaty or not, and brought to account for their crimes. After all, if we fail to do anything about them in our own "justice" system, then we have absolutely NO business telling any other country what it needs to do.
We are hardly a role model for justice in any way - when actual criminals can continue leading the high life and be treated as if they are honorable individuals.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)You're saying nothing can be done? Until the war criminals from the previous adm. and those inside of our government today are dealt with, either by the USA or by the World, this issue is NOT over. If we don't deal with it, the World community will find a way.
It would be best if we do it ourselves, as all this above-the-law behavior by our intelligence agencies is trickling down to our society, where our LE community is behaving in the same way. Did you see all the Med school students and faculty (70 campuses) all over this country lay down in protest today over the injustice in our LE system?
Injustice will be dealt with, in one way or another.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)apart from my comment where I responded to your saying that President Obama should sign the US up to the ICC, we are in agreement.
I hardly think that I said that nothing can be done by other means. It's just that President Obama alone can't do it. The treaty is already officially signed by the US. Where I fault President Obama - and Dems generally - is that none of them apparently considered its ratification important enough to press for when Dems had a majority in the Senate. Bringing lying warmongers and torturers to justice was always "off the table" in favor of "looking forward."
John Bolton, as important as he thinks he is, cannot simply repudiate a treaty already signed by a US President in a single letter. But a treaty that remains unratified remains NA generally.
I, like you, applaud that many are indeed beginning to protest the wholesale injustice that exists in the US "justice" system. To the extent that I can, I myself protest and support those who do.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... I should have checked out last night before I read one thread. I misspoke in another thread and had to apologize to him too. It's just so frustrating to me when common sense can't be the alternative in these big issues. There's always a road block. And in this instance, come to find out, it's a Democratic roadblock.
Peace to you and yours this Christmas.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)passionate about these issues - as am I.
And when Ds keep on letting Rs get away with the most reprehensible behavior possible, it is difficult not to despair.
retired rooster
(114 posts)...they would leave a note of apology to the world, stick the barrel of a gun in their lying mouths, and blow their troubles away. Evil, lying bastards they are.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Yes they should've been prosecuted. But like Clinton did for Bush Sr crimes, Obama excused everyone involved when he took office as I'm sure he was instructed to do. And things have been delayed so long I'm sure that has limited opportunities. You know there are horrible sexual assaults probably not even covered in the report too. Yeah Cheney is whining now as expected along with all the other usual suspects to cover their own asses. One thing is for certain...this country cannot elect Jeb Bush unless we are asking for serious trouble.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)*NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS*
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Look forward. Sorry I like to keep an eye on my back.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)Volaris
(10,270 posts)If he says it the right way, the morans will not only eat it up, they will scream about the liburl "gotcha" media trying to be mean to a Republican again, same way they did with little ole Sara.
I don't want to think Jeb can be elected either, but I'm not counting my chickens what with the Haters out in Full Force the next 2 years. I think the ONLY way Jeb FOR SURE can't get elected, is if he ends up being the Brother of an convicted War Criminal.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Because we can't run on the anti-nepotism advantage if Hillary "Goldman Sachs" Clinton runs.
tblue
(16,350 posts)Pains me to no end, but I know it. I've read that the Bush family is the most powerful in the world. They are quietly putting their well-oiled ducks in a row. Notice how they're keeping him on a low flame, just quietly biding their time while the front runners burn out one by one. Then they will MAKE him president just like they did his big bro. Remember how W got the presidency. They have no intention of losing.
Jeb will be the nominee and then the POTUS unless something, and I can't imagine what but, some miracle derails it somehow. We really do need that miracle. I am truly terrified.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)Hekate
(90,681 posts)dflprincess
(28,075 posts)"This was awful. Our bad."
And, except for some whining from the right about even going this "far", the rest of the world is expected to act as though the U.S. admitting its leaders committed war crimes is enough.
Miigwech
(3,741 posts)Yes, bring the bastards to trial. Do it in the International Court .... just like anyone else that is accused of War Crimes. Bush/Cheney broke our laws, broke our treaty laws, broke international laws .... so what is Obama waiting for? If it has to tear this country apart then so be it ...... do it for the true morality that our Founding Fathers fought for !!
doc03
(35,332 posts)goes for the bankers that should have been prosecuted. The only one that went to jail was Martha Stewart.
MoreGOPoop
(417 posts)Make it a twofer and grab the kochroaches for their
crimes against the nation. Just in time for Christmas!
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)Like Rumsefeld, John Yoo, etc., etc., etc.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)rdking647
(5,113 posts)if they ever leave the country arrest them and try them in the hague
if they dont let them always be looking over their shoulder
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)and our only hope they ever get any kind of, at least, inconvenience for their crimes. They wont' get punished, not by the international community and especially not by TPTB in America, but to at least see them inconvenienced by Anonymous for a little while is our best and only hope, sadly. I just hope Anonymous can keep from being caught by TPTB in America if they do it.
harun
(11,348 posts)I think if they get the whole report out we could get prosecutions.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)I want both to get some "rectal rehydration".
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:25 AM - Edit history (1)
from the ACLU they do not think that is going to happen. He suggested that if they are not put on trial then they should be pardoned because it would clearly be a statement of their guilt. No one is pardoned if there is no crime and no one is pardoned unless they are guilty of that crime. So pardon them. He said it would be like putting a huge C (for criminal) on their chest.
Volaris
(10,270 posts)Pardons have to be ACCEPTED by the criminals as a tacit admission of guilt. Since none of them would ever cop to actually being guilty of a crime, the idea of NEEDING a pardon is flat laughable to them.
I give the ACLU props for trying to think their way OUT of this particular (legal) Paper Bag, but that ain't gonna cut it. Indictments and TRIALS UNDER OATH are the only way now.
And yeah, it's a good thing criminals have Rights and freedom from Cruel and Unusual Punishment (well, not those we TORTURED, OBVIOUSLY) because <I> want BLOOD for this.
DrBulldog
(841 posts)... is not the horrendous crimes of torture committed by our own government finally being reported but the cowardly and inhumane refusal of my own nation to hold those responsible to the fullest extent of the law. What a gawd-awful fraudulent country we have become. We have joined the rottenest of human society on this world.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I'm not feeling patriotic at all. I see the corruption. Once you see the widespread cross party corruption, unseeing it is impossible. Sometimes, I WISH they would give me whatever they are on that keeps them from seeing through it all, just to dull my senses, but no, I cannot unsee it. I cannot unknow it either. It would take a complete lobotomy to unknow and unsee it and even then, I'm not sure I could keep from seeing and knowing it all over again.
47of74
(18,470 posts)There's nothing to celebrate about it anymore.
radhika
(1,008 posts)Not in politics.
Not in banks and Wall Street
Not in mega corporations
Not even in itty-bitty local police departments.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)It's kind of pathetic to dream of justice being done these days.
Sure, it's a wonderful escape, but it's a fantasy.
We all know that nothing will be done to bring Bush, Cheney, and their cabal to justice.
In fact, in a week or so we'll have moved on to the next breathless topic.
I'd be thrilled to be wrong, but I really don't think I am.
Cha
(297,205 posts)BelgianMadCow
(5,379 posts)calls for prosecution being reported here as well, but also that Obama is "holding off the boat".
deutsey
(20,166 posts)as their compadre Pinochet found out when he was busted in England.
DLevine
(1,788 posts)marble falls
(57,081 posts)rock
(13,218 posts)Prosecute Dick Cheney and George W. Bush for torture or rub more shit on The Constitution.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Oh, that's right. They probably were never trained to flush. It probably took everything their mother's had to train them to wipe at all.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)Tony the English Poodle. He helped!
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)serious 'splainin' to to do also, IIRC.
duhneece
(4,112 posts)for crimes against humanity...but would be prefer Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfie, Rice was beside him.
But Cheney is the most horrible of all. The most evil of all.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)maybe the rest will squeal for a deal.
duhneece
(4,112 posts)They are all so evil and bad, but I have a perhaps irrational extra disgust at Cheney
When he shoots his own pals in the face, they have to apologize to HIM, so we know he'll be happy to throw everyone he knows under the bus.
albino65
(484 posts)It might have to come to this:
sammy750
(165 posts)allow other nations to capture and charge Bush, Cheney and hundreds of others and send them to the Hague for war crimes. It is time the USA stands up to what it stands for, no matter who the criminals are.
The real issue is that the GOP is about to take over the nation again, and they could continue torturing if Pres. Obama does not take immediate action.
The GOP thinks they are above the rule of laws in the USA, that is why we have so many criminal GOP members. R.Scott, Gov. of FL, rapist in state offices, The GOP gets away with crimes and the conservatives elect them, thumbing their noses at the American people.
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)ffr
(22,669 posts)He may not know what it means, but I think it's time to speak out and make sure the rule applies to all, including him and his administration.
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)Lets see if Bush will Travel to Canada again, lets see if the other criminal crew will travel overseas now that this "Summary" has been released.
If I were them I would be extremely worried about the possibility of trials
Which would be great because, 4600 Americans died on a lie, thousands of innocents were murdered based on a justification of war and over 200 were tortured in an American facilities owned and operated under the CIA here an abroad.
And now they have placed all innocent Americans in harms way if they travel overseas, just great.
Gman
(24,780 posts)It would at least be significant if the international courts issued warrants for their arrests.
tclambert
(11,085 posts)In 2009, President Obama takes the oath of office, begins his inaugural speech, says, "America will not tolerate torture. It is a war crime. And in America, no one is above the law." Then he signals to FBI agents who move in and handcuff Bush and Cheney. THAT would have got me on my feet cheering.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)hue
(4,949 posts)samsingh
(17,598 posts)Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
DrBulldog
(841 posts)They now expect NOTHING from their leaders. Welcome to the club, America!
moondust
(19,981 posts)seen around the world by friend and foe alike will be enough to convince a lot of people that the U.S. actually stands by its pledge of "liberty and justice for all."
AnnieBW
(10,426 posts)As well as John Yoo, Paul Wolfowitz, and the rest of the Bush gang.
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)is that we stood strong against mistreatment of prisoners in WW2.
There were instances of torture and murder by American armed forces in WW2, but these were very isolated incidents and were NOT official policy. As a matter of fact, reading numerous accounts of WW2 interrogators, violence was NEVER used. The interrogators got more out of coffee, beer, conversation and cigarettes.
I had a lot of family members fight in WW2, Korea and Vietnam and this shames their sacrifices and service. I will never shut up about it until something is done to prosecute it.
babylonsister
(171,065 posts)it better again. Or at least let everyone know torture is not the only option, and shouldn't be one.
sammy750
(165 posts)Nazi war criminals in the USA and sent them to their deaths.
NO wonder our police forces across this nation are so bad and corrupt, the Justice Dept leads the way.
Where is our President, he is giving in to the Republicans.
Kablooie
(18,634 posts)Even if they were prosecuted, they would be found innocent of any wrong doing.
If we can't convict cops that blatantly murder people we certainly aren't going to convict these guys.
This isn't the 1970's when justice could occasionally occur.
This is the 2000's where crimes by the top 1% are to be allowed and celebrated.
There has to be a major shift in popular culture and law before any justice could conceivably be contemplated and that's not going to happen any time in the near, or far, future.
JEB
(4,748 posts)War criminals and killer cops getting off Scot free will destroy what is left of our nation and our society.
Blue Idaho
(5,049 posts)And shoved up George Bush's ass.
Joey Liberal
(5,526 posts)And they will be the majority? We are so screwed.
napkinz
(17,199 posts)nt