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coljam

(188 posts)
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:39 AM Aug 2014

Just saw 12 years a slave

I was wondering how much was fact and how much was fiction? While in college I took an African American studies class under Dr. Gwen Fortune a black professor in which I learned that for the most part the slaves were not mistreated many were treated as family members and given titles as aunt and uncle.
I do not condone slavery but for the most part I believe that most whites treated their slaves as part of the family. I do not believe that the human condition is that evil.

This is not to say that some are evil , but that was the exception rather then the rule.

433 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Just saw 12 years a slave (Original Post) coljam Aug 2014 OP
Slaves were property. I'm sure some people took better care of their property than others. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #1
Yes, uncle and auntie would still be hunted down with dogs if they walked away,whipped, sold, Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #63
Sounds like a winger OP. Ed Suspicious Aug 2014 #213
I don't believe this G_j Aug 2014 #2
I don't believe the poster believes it either. Squinch Aug 2014 #10
The phrase "cool story" comes to mind n/t arcane1 Aug 2014 #141
Exactly. The underground railroad didn't lead JaneyVee Aug 2014 #268
The slaves treated as members of the family were those who worked in the house. MohRokTah Aug 2014 #3
And usually were actually members of the family through the male owners. nt kelliekat44 Aug 2014 #125
I have one very small bone to pick with your assessment.. whathehell Aug 2014 #226
The female (as well as some males) house slaves NOLALady Aug 2014 #237
I believe the number of slaves were higher. In the census report a slave was 3/5 of a free man LiberalArkie Aug 2014 #271
Good point! eom MohRokTah Aug 2014 #276
Yes..The slave schedules have the actual count. JimDandy Aug 2014 #363
The above chart from 1860 seems to have actual counts of slaves in the population columns Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #396
Really? one_voice Aug 2014 #4
Pat Buchanan, is that you? Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #5
And Frederick Douglass gave us an example of how far 'kindness' could go: freshwest Aug 2014 #267
Perfect. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #275
If only one slave was whipped one time that would be too fucking many for me CBGLuthier Aug 2014 #6
You need to read some slave narratives on amazon. bravenak Aug 2014 #7
I think you are in the wrong place. Peddle this swill somewhere else. Squinch Aug 2014 #8
There goes that slaves were treated well meme rbrnmw Aug 2014 #9
I'm not buying the wide eyed, "I heard that..." crap, either. Squinch Aug 2014 #12
Read the post coljam Aug 2014 #15
which in my black history books is total bullshit rbrnmw Aug 2014 #16
You don't condone slavery, but you are pretty sure slavery was not that bad. Have you lived your Squinch Aug 2014 #23
Question the mistreatment of slaves? bravenak Aug 2014 #33
What in the definition of 'slave' Call Me Wesley Aug 2014 #151
Who are you ? and the newbie that started this thread ? orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #214
why don't you read for yourself what some of them had to say about it? CatWoman Aug 2014 #300
You're either a RW troll or a totally naive and uniformed, unread . . . brush Aug 2014 #346
you question the mistreatment of slaves as a whole? fishwax Aug 2014 #354
when a slave grew too old to work, the vet was called. they were put to death like an old dog Liberal_in_LA Aug 2014 #11
they were treated like the family member you get to rape, beat and kill at will Liberal_in_LA Aug 2014 #13
Someone else beat me to the alert, and this crap OP was left by a jury. DU has jumped the shark. Squinch Aug 2014 #14
I was the alerter. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #21
That is a seriously disgusting jury summary. Some corner has been turned and it feels Squinch Aug 2014 #25
I alerted on the results. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #27
it turns my stomach rbrnmw Aug 2014 #31
Wow! Good thing jurors are anonymous. Iggo Aug 2014 #290
Good result, imo, elleng Aug 2014 #115
Well, I guess we'd better tell Skinner to change the name of this forum then. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #118
Hiding the post is an instant lesson. n/t Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #171
yep and shown the door too rbrnmw Aug 2014 #176
It is not a lesson at all, its like a school teacher who is unable to discuss serious matters. elleng Aug 2014 #178
I totally disagree racism should receive negative responses rbrnmw Aug 2014 #193
The OP made an absurd assertion, one that anyone with even a rudimentary understanding Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #198
Excellent answer to utter BS etherealtruth Aug 2014 #221
I did think I'd missed some plank in the Democratic Party platform. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #251
Or any CPAC talking points, either! Must be in the *shadow* Democratic Party platform. freshwest Aug 2014 #277
The OP must have read some 'good reads'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #338
Are you serious? You think that post was some naive student and not a RW troll? nt brush Aug 2014 #348
I guess bigotry is just another point of view BainsBane Aug 2014 #333
I see no bigotry, elleng Aug 2014 #336
You are simply wrong BainsBane Aug 2014 #339
It is your OPINION that I am wrong, elleng Aug 2014 #341
It is not an opinion BainsBane Aug 2014 #382
Skinner's opinion too. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #388
Too late to educate "a 59 year old hippie from the Chicago area" tenderfoot Aug 2014 #391
no it is not tough noiretextatique Aug 2014 #408
Seriously? zappaman Aug 2014 #340
IKR!? Rex Aug 2014 #350
There is plenty of information in this thread that prove the racism and bigotry. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #342
who cares what you don't see? CreekDog Aug 2014 #403
would you also want to educate people who argue rape or murder is "not always so bad"? bettyellen Aug 2014 #385
Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #140
And of course, none of the activist jurors who demand "education" for the OP Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #153
As I said, elleng Aug 2014 #160
That's nice. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #162
Have done, elleng Aug 2014 #169
the OP was not seeking education CreekDog Aug 2014 #409
Fortunately for ME, I didn't follow the OP around, elleng Aug 2014 #412
his transparency page was showing, one didn't have to follow him around CreekDog Aug 2014 #415
There are two posters, Call Me Wesley Aug 2014 #180
So why aren't you EDUCATING the OP? tenderfoot Aug 2014 #194
Evidently we're all too "abominable" for someone's beautiful mind. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #299
How very Barbara Bush of her. KitSileya Aug 2014 #311
I'm glad the "People's Jury" on this thread have caused the OP to have a month-long vacation. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #315
I'm afraid I don't have as much faith as you. KitSileya Aug 2014 #319
There are some subjects where, if the poster is asking for "education," there is no question Squinch Aug 2014 #257
Agreed. Call Me Wesley Aug 2014 #163
I hope some will get their juror privs removed. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #174
I won't hold it either. Call Me Wesley Aug 2014 #182
Argh, sorry you got a hide up there. This place. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #245
Well, see, the bigots need educating because hiding a post is just so mean! kcr Aug 2014 #400
It's always interesting to see whose opinions get rated as worth hearing, isn't it? Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #401
Look what does get hidden BainsBane Aug 2014 #334
Yep. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #337
I was on the jury for that liberalhistorian Aug 2014 #349
Try 1834 BainsBane Aug 2014 #351
Speaking of 1834, our president at the time was a genocidal racist. StevieM Aug 2014 #414
He also expanded the vote BainsBane Aug 2014 #416
I wasn't on the jury, but this type of ignorance needs some sunlight. femmocrat Aug 2014 #24
Yes - You can't expose ignorance by hiding it away! Beartracks Aug 2014 #250
This isn't ignorance. This poster is fully aware that slavery is bad. Because everyone is fully Squinch Aug 2014 #302
You could very well be correct. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #324
But if this were someone who was brainwashed all his life about slavery, he would not be seeking out Squinch Aug 2014 #326
You make a convincing argument. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #329
Why alert and hide an offensively wrong post? Beartracks Aug 2014 #248
I think a discussion zappaman Aug 2014 #253
You need a discussion about whether slavery was bad? Really? Can't we just accept that as a given? Squinch Aug 2014 #305
We can accept that as a given. Duh. Beartracks Aug 2014 #327
because it makes it sound like reasonable people can disagree on whether slaves were mistreated CreekDog Aug 2014 #410
That's okay, the OP now has five hides. MohRokTah Aug 2014 #249
Skinner should ban the OP and everyone on that jury who voted to leave it kcr Aug 2014 #365
face palm riverwalker Aug 2014 #17
4 posts hidden in 90 days, you're workin' onecent Aug 2014 #18
Only 3 coljam Aug 2014 #37
WOW only 3 with 171 posts rbrnmw Aug 2014 #62
No it is 4...the OP cannot be honest even when the obvious is obvious. Rex Aug 2014 #81
wish he' d just go to his Klan meeting and leave us alone rbrnmw Aug 2014 #138
No, you HAD 4, that is vieable by anybody when looking at an explanation of your % Jury. MohRokTah Aug 2014 #263
It's up to 6 now: freshwest Aug 2014 #287
good work freshwest.....lol onecent Aug 2014 #343
Did you know the movie is based on the autobiography of Solomon Northrup? femmocrat Aug 2014 #19
This is the most bullshitty post I've ever seen here gollygee Aug 2014 #20
Agreed. nt laundry_queen Aug 2014 #29
And yet a jury let it stand. Puke. sufrommich Aug 2014 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author Courtesy Flush Aug 2014 #306
Oh FFS malaise Aug 2014 #22
What sets us apart from the GOP is the coljam Aug 2014 #26
Sorry, buddy. There is nothing that sets you apart from the worst elements of the GOP. Squinch Aug 2014 #30
this person belongs over there with the freepers. rbrnmw Aug 2014 #34
I feel certain that he already is over there. Squinch Aug 2014 #35
we need unrec back and a better jury system rbrnmw Aug 2014 #39
Some OPs use the 'JAQing off' methodolgy. freshwest Aug 2014 #297
We ARE better, because we are not stupid enough to think slavery was pleasant. bravenak Aug 2014 #38
I suggest coljam Aug 2014 #46
I about puked the first time I read it. rbrnmw Aug 2014 #53
You made it sound like a nice thing. bravenak Aug 2014 #59
I suggest abelenkpe Aug 2014 #136
Your opinion that humans who were bought by other humans sufrommich Aug 2014 #43
If you spew apologies for slavery, you will be informed MineralMan Aug 2014 #90
Yes. elleng Aug 2014 #116
No what sets us apart, usually, is that we aren't racist. boston bean Aug 2014 #150
Attempts to rewrite history will be pilloried. eom MohRokTah Aug 2014 #261
Evidently, it doesn't set us apart. n/t Skip Intro Aug 2014 #360
are you upset that we can't discuss whether or not slaves were mistreated Skippy? CreekDog Aug 2014 #411
You're setting very low standards ecstatic Aug 2014 #424
My great great great grandfather was African-American he escaped slavery rbrnmw Aug 2014 #28
Bracing for your wide-eyed holocaust denial OP. And the shitty jury that lets that stand, too. Squinch Aug 2014 #32
Me too. bravenak Aug 2014 #40
Oh you know it. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #44
Won't happen. Check his postings. mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #207
From what I've read, it depended on region, master, crop and duties of the slave LittleBlue Aug 2014 #36
Ben Franklin GirlinContempt Aug 2014 #294
Corrections (for outside readers) BainsBane Aug 2014 #357
Before hurling a racist tag at me coljam Aug 2014 #42
At the age of 9 the kids call it a "PARADE".....you dip You didn't know onecent Aug 2014 #45
I did something to make the world a better place coljam Aug 2014 #50
We aren't whining buddy. rbrnmw Aug 2014 #58
This detractor NOLALady Aug 2014 #264
sure didn't learn much rbrnmw Aug 2014 #48
What a pantload. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #52
So what? bravenak Aug 2014 #61
I bet you have a black friend, too. Squinch Aug 2014 #131
^^^^^ this^^^^^ rbrnmw Aug 2014 #143
Cool story. Like your OP tenderfoot Aug 2014 #192
Cool story, bro. eom MohRokTah Aug 2014 #265
have you read any books since then? noiretextatique Aug 2014 #407
One thing the movie shows is that there was no such thing as "good" slave owners. Coventina Aug 2014 #47
Note that the Benedict Cumberbatch character Lydia Leftcoast Aug 2014 #314
Exactly. He feels "bad" about it, but not bad enough to change his behavior. Coventina Aug 2014 #335
"Maybe you should watch the movie again." Iggo Aug 2014 #369
i suppose some slaves were indeed treated like family members unblock Aug 2014 #49
Welcome to neo-DU, ladies and gentleman..... Cali_Democrat Aug 2014 #51
I never said that read the post coljam Aug 2014 #56
You said you were taught that. Raine1967 Aug 2014 #246
Right wing racist drivel makes DU suck... Ohio Joe Aug 2014 #54
I find it hard to wrap my head around your kind of thinking. 99Forever Aug 2014 #55
99, you and I are agreeing! Which says something about this poster. Squinch Aug 2014 #307
A nice plus. 99Forever Aug 2014 #309
'Treating your slaves well'? 'Treat them as family'? Wow. So much hypocrisy and irony Lint Head Aug 2014 #57
Enjoy your stay! Rex Aug 2014 #60
He's been here for 4 years. sufrommich Aug 2014 #65
Well with OPs like that, I don't think he/she will be here long. Rex Aug 2014 #69
make that 6 shanti Aug 2014 #70
113 of them in the last 90 days. Iggo Aug 2014 #321
Either you are woefully ignorant, or you are a troll stirring up crap. raccoon Aug 2014 #64
I vote for both. gollygee Aug 2014 #109
not mutually exclusive etherealtruth Aug 2014 #223
I do not believe the human condition is evil. coljam Aug 2014 #66
Slavery is though. bravenak Aug 2014 #68
And before you rape their daughter - after all, she is property KitSileya Aug 2014 #313
Can't call it rape I guess. bravenak Aug 2014 #345
When I see people stirring denialist shit like this, though, I do tend to wonder. Squinch Aug 2014 #133
Read The Book Here For Free it's an Autobiograpy Public Domain mucifer Aug 2014 #67
to accept slavery as totally evil coljam Aug 2014 #71
Check out that 1860 census table above. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #72
So sell yourself into slavery. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #73
Read the post coljam Aug 2014 #74
I read exactly what you meant. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #75
Go to the land of OZ coljam Aug 2014 #77
You're the one talking it up dude. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #79
90 percent of the population did not own slaves. bravenak Aug 2014 #76
The OP is obvious trolling, I cannot believe people think the OP is sincere. Rex Aug 2014 #78
I don't think anybody is actually buying this bullshit. bravenak Aug 2014 #80
True...gonna be a hot hot summer. Rex Aug 2014 #82
I asked about that. bravenak Aug 2014 #84
Well just one more hide to go...161 posts and 4 hides already Rex Aug 2014 #91
Yes, yes, high minded discussions only. bravenak Aug 2014 #96
I'll take Cliven Bundy for $200 Alex rbrnmw Aug 2014 #155
The man taught classes at this person's school. bravenak Aug 2014 #156
Yes and David Duke was also a teacher rbrnmw Aug 2014 #172
Graduation robes were all white. bravenak Aug 2014 #186
exactly rbrnmw Aug 2014 #189
Make that 6 now... sheshe2 Aug 2014 #356
I agree most people did not own slaves coljam Aug 2014 #85
You read it. bravenak Aug 2014 #86
Slavery is totally evil. IT just is. MineralMan Aug 2014 #102
What 90% of Americans did at the time was evil. Face it. I am Ojibwe, and what white catbyte Aug 2014 #175
If you are trying to argue that good people turned a blind eye to slavery, mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #220
Evidently the Africans NOLALady Aug 2014 #270
"to accept slavery as totally evil" Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #285
It's autobiographical, you see. MineralMan Aug 2014 #83
While you keep going after my posts coljam Aug 2014 #88
Whoa!! bravenak Aug 2014 #93
As I said before I am glad I dont live in a society coljam Aug 2014 #119
Thoughts are in your head. bravenak Aug 2014 #122
so leave we won't miss you or your drivel rbrnmw Aug 2014 #135
Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. Squinch Aug 2014 #308
I reply to posts. I have no idea who you are. MineralMan Aug 2014 #95
Self righteousness & self pity are not very sexy, coljam. catbyte Aug 2014 #181
Same here, I hope the admins are looking at this poster closely. Rex Aug 2014 #89
It's a deeply offensive post. I cannot sit quietly by MineralMan Aug 2014 #97
Good for you, I do too. Rex Aug 2014 #99
Well their no racism in any of my posts coljam Aug 2014 #126
Slavery WAS a racial issue. bravenak Aug 2014 #134
Slavery is not just an economic issue at all. It is a human rights MineralMan Aug 2014 #230
I am a genealogist. NOLALady Aug 2014 #320
Read the book. It's written by Mira Aug 2014 #87
I am not questioning what happened to Solomen coljam Aug 2014 #101
Do you honestly believe there were or are people sufrommich Aug 2014 #112
No coljam Aug 2014 #137
Humans are not that bad? Try Germany in the 1940's. arcane1 Aug 2014 #139
That's what I wanna know. bravenak Aug 2014 #142
Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #152
Nowhere did I indict anyone. What percentage do you think were aware of the holocaust? arcane1 Aug 2014 #154
Only if you can agree that not all masters mistreated their slaves coljam Aug 2014 #164
Owning somebody IS mistreating them. bravenak Aug 2014 #166
We're negotiating history now? News-flash: slavery is in itself mistreatment. Forced labor. arcane1 Aug 2014 #168
You're really bad at analogies. Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #291
The jury did hide the "the German's didn't know post" etherealtruth Aug 2014 #293
Wrong again. What college did you go to, Bob Jones? Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #159
They went to David Duke University rbrnmw Aug 2014 #187
+1 Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #191
Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #222
Awww c'mon! bravenak Aug 2014 #225
Just did a little research tammywammy Aug 2014 #231
Figures. bravenak Aug 2014 #239
She also taught at our community college. I remember her. Gidney N Cloyd Aug 2014 #355
RESULTS: A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #238
That's crazy! bravenak Aug 2014 #241
Too bad about the OP, but this hide puts the poster on forced vacation, at least. cyberswede Aug 2014 #244
It's his fifth hide. No posting until September 1. MohRokTah Aug 2014 #254
And now a sixth. A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #258
As of now on a timeout until September 8 MohRokTah Aug 2014 #260
because of getting two hides in one day coljam is flagged for review. alp227 Aug 2014 #278
Good point. MohRokTah Aug 2014 #280
More startling than his/her hidden posts ... etherealtruth Aug 2014 #296
And Skinner brings out the ban hammer MohRokTah Aug 2014 #386
Nice shooting, Tex. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #269
He should have gotten a couple more hides A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #272
Lame, even by your abysmal standards. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #229
Really? What college was that, coljam? MineralMan Aug 2014 #236
One where they didn't assign THIS book, apparently... PassingFair Aug 2014 #331
"I can not believe human beings are so evil as to mistreat a whole class of people" sufrommich Aug 2014 #145
Do you believe the Holocaust was real? bravenak Aug 2014 #149
Post #152 etherealtruth Aug 2014 #317
Treating a human being as a piece or property IS mistreatment. Period. Ms. Toad Aug 2014 #273
You can if it's based on Slavery. bravenak Aug 2014 #113
This message was self-deleted by its author mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #121
That's self serving bullshit, your OP is nothing but a questioning of the trutfulness of the book's Bluenorthwest Aug 2014 #123
He was not just "one man" Mira Aug 2014 #129
Solomon Northup's memoir--Twelve Years a Slave--was written after he was rescued mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #111
The book is Salomon Northup's narrative as told to David Wilson Brother Buzz Aug 2014 #128
It is a bit hard for me to think that those who bought/sold and "owned" slaves... hlthe2b Aug 2014 #92
Until women were given the right to vote lunatica Aug 2014 #94
My family did not have plantations or large farms. We occasionally owned slaves. ieoeja Aug 2014 #390
There's no such thing as stupid answers, only stupid questions/nt DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #98
Booo!! bravenak Aug 2014 #100
RWing talking points have no place on DU imo. Rex Aug 2014 #103
Thou dost protest too much coljam Aug 2014 #105
Nah I just like calling out trolling when I see it. Rex Aug 2014 #108
The stock answer for those who have lost the argument and can't admit it. And don't look now Squinch Aug 2014 #266
This normally would have been hidden i think. bravenak Aug 2014 #106
This entire OP and all of your replies, and the jury who left it are pure distilled idiocy. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #104
I am glad I dont live in your society coljam Aug 2014 #110
Look who else agrees with you: Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #114
We wouldn't need to police you if you kept your 'thoughts' to 'yourself'. bravenak Aug 2014 #117
It's called a basic understanding of history BainsBane Aug 2014 #228
Cute. Hissyspit Aug 2014 #283
This was allowed to stand? Raine1967 Aug 2014 #227
Yeah, I was the alerter. I thought the intentions of the OP were clear as glass, but he got a 2-5 Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #232
Unbelievable etherealtruth Aug 2014 #259
OK, who sent ya? napkinz Aug 2014 #107
I saw this movie once d_r Aug 2014 #120
If it hadn't been illegal for slaves to learn to read and write mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #124
The WPA Oral History Project Bluenorthwest Aug 2014 #165
Ha. A real treasure trove. I think I've heard about this, mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #177
Great post!!! zappaman Aug 2014 #127
Read the book Freddie Aug 2014 #130
After the civil war ended Dawson Leery Aug 2014 #132
Seriously? linuxman Aug 2014 #167
Since you asked, you can give your opinion! akbacchus_BC Aug 2014 #432
enjoy your stay. eom PowerToThePeople Aug 2014 #144
I hope you enjoy your pizza Marrah_G Aug 2014 #146
Next thing you tell me that Call Me Wesley Aug 2014 #147
No coljam Aug 2014 #157
Then ask him if he'd be okay Call Me Wesley Aug 2014 #173
Wow! What a heaping pile of bullshit! tenderfoot Aug 2014 #148
OP's first PRO-SLAVERY attempt Failed with Jury: A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #158
Clears things right up! bravenak Aug 2014 #170
Yes it does! Rex Aug 2014 #185
Good find. mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #183
Awwww, Call Me Wesley Aug 2014 #188
they were enslaved, not anything like family. They were imprisoned and denied freedom of choice bigtree Aug 2014 #161
The OP is proud of their thread. They are pro-slavery and gloating now. Rex Aug 2014 #190
Go read the profile of the OP. mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #195
Agree 100%. Rex Aug 2014 #197
Kind of amazing the guy has lasted this long. mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #199
Oh my, coljam. Laffy Kat Aug 2014 #179
His latest OP was just locked by hosts pinboy3niner Aug 2014 #206
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #184
The obvious flaw in that argument is what happened after they were freed. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2014 #196
Anyone that knows what the middle passage is, knows the OP is full of it. Rex Aug 2014 #200
The argument is absurd on the face of it. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2014 #205
Yes and to pretend the rest of us that do know history are wrong Rex Aug 2014 #208
Calling... zappaman Aug 2014 #201
It is as if the Bundy Ranch finally found the WWW and DU Rex Aug 2014 #204
Could the poster be from... zappaman Aug 2014 #209
Not even Denmark would make that smell. Rex Aug 2014 #211
You learned wrong BainsBane Aug 2014 #202
No...Just No. BlueJazz Aug 2014 #203
maybe you can explain further to everyone how you came to this curious point of view. Voice for Peace Aug 2014 #210
In the movie you saw I'm sure you noticed Ed Suspicious Aug 2014 #212
" soft pedaled " for sure. orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #215
Anytime you find yourself writing "I don't condone slavery but..." DanTex Aug 2014 #216
Good advice. Ed Suspicious Aug 2014 #217
but orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #219
Ask Cornel West about the exaggeration ? orpupilofnature57 Aug 2014 #218
Please do more research. You can find primary sources roody Aug 2014 #224
I don't know anything about Dr Fortune, NOLALady Aug 2014 #233
Have a nice VACATION! A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #234
Thank goodness! mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #243
6 Years a Troll. A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #247
Must be some kind of record. mnhtnbb Aug 2014 #252
His human light is flickering low. A-Schwarzenegger Aug 2014 #256
! cyberswede Aug 2014 #332
We get a month reprieve from their posts. herding cats Aug 2014 #304
Please self delete your post. Raine1967 Aug 2014 #235
THIS is your professor? …: Raine1967 Aug 2014 #240
Wow... Cliven Bundy has arrived to DU!!! cui bono Aug 2014 #242
This has Recs? zappaman Aug 2014 #255
I noticed that too. rbrnmw Aug 2014 #274
I am really hoping those are the "you guys have to see this troll in action" variety of recs. Squinch Aug 2014 #310
Wow, I never alert on threads, cwydro Aug 2014 #262
The South is just never gonna give up on this one, is it? McCamy Taylor Aug 2014 #279
Don't put this asshat in the South. cwydro Aug 2014 #301
Oh for fuck's sake... Hissyspit Aug 2014 #281
I bet that was character building. Enthusiast Aug 2014 #328
I took an African American studies class taught by Tom Morello's mom Skittles Aug 2014 #282
Are you fucking kidding? Iggo Aug 2014 #284
This message was self-deleted by its author Hissyspit Aug 2014 #286
I can't believe this racist bullshit survived a jury. MerryBlooms Aug 2014 #288
Fuck that noise Tom Ripley Aug 2014 #289
This message was self-deleted by its author Hissyspit Aug 2014 #292
I cannot believe that this post was allowed to stand. stage left Aug 2014 #295
I think you made a wrong turn in Albuquerque. nt awoke_in_2003 Aug 2014 #298
This OP is nauseating and disingenuous to the point of trollery. No answer will "educate" the poster Hekate Aug 2014 #303
My husband and son overheard a lot of comments like this OP Cairycat Aug 2014 #312
"I do not believe that the human condition is evil" fujiyama Aug 2014 #316
In the author's note to one of Barbara Hambly's Benjamin January novels Lydia Leftcoast Aug 2014 #318
You do not believe that the human condition is that evil? Enthusiast Aug 2014 #322
Anyone who sees slavery as anything other than a hideous abomination Nye Bevan Aug 2014 #323
Is this your professor, here? Dr. Gwen Fortune. Can you please name at least one of her suggested Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #325
Slavery is so cool! I hereby volunteer you! pinboy3niner Aug 2014 #330
It was all evil. Didn't you read the slave narratives in history class? Slavery is evil. applegrove Aug 2014 #344
Buying and selling someone isn't mistreating them? Brickbat Aug 2014 #347
OMG, now I know why this has so few recs, it was actually much worse for many people ... slipslidingaway Aug 2014 #352
Bigger OMG Bobbie Jo Aug 2014 #370
Seriously???? RetroLounge Aug 2014 #353
Hmm . . . n/t Strelnikov_ Aug 2014 #358
Is this a serious post? Iron Man Aug 2014 #359
No. Hissyspit Aug 2014 #367
Wow BlindTiresias Aug 2014 #361
The myth of the benevolent master is a rationalization device. MatthewStLouis Aug 2014 #362
took 'em to disneyworld too. they loved 'it's a small world' sure did spanone Aug 2014 #364
Nope, it was Hissyspit Aug 2014 #368
my bad.... spanone Aug 2014 #374
You might want to read The Intesting Narrative of the Lif of 1monster Aug 2014 #366
or they may want to read some George Washington Cable... tenderfoot Aug 2014 #371
MIR Team (Skinner) banned coljam hrmjustin Aug 2014 #372
Yay gollygee Aug 2014 #376
Let the joyous news be spread... N/t. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #377
Good riddance. n/t tammywammy Aug 2014 #378
+1. n/t Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #379
Thank you, Skinner. Starry Messenger Aug 2014 #380
yes, and why are 4 DUers recommending that crap? CreekDog Aug 2014 #395
I think 2 might be mistakes. Also some rec to be able to find it later. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #398
if they want to recommend it, they can take the heat for recommending crap CreekDog Aug 2014 #404
Coljam has left the building. lpbk2713 Aug 2014 #373
I miss him already. Orrex Aug 2014 #387
Methinks the OP.. doxydad Aug 2014 #375
What's evil LWolf Aug 2014 #381
Aaaaaand...Scene! Iggo Aug 2014 #383
See you in a few, dickhead! .nt Guy Whitey Corngood Aug 2014 #384
Horrible right wing OP, just had to add my $0.02 nt steve2470 Aug 2014 #389
4 DUers recommended it CreekDog Aug 2014 #394
what I've read in the past.... steve2470 Aug 2014 #397
I've rec'd threads like this for the rubber-necking value. Iggo Aug 2014 #399
I think you should start an entirely new OP, would have been locked on DU2, but hey... NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #423
If the recommenders agree with the OP, yes I have a problem with that CreekDog Aug 2014 #425
Well, I finally found the post that prompted your poll, yay. I heading down to the pool. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #426
Ocean's actually several degrees warmer than normal this summer CreekDog Aug 2014 #429
I fully agree. It must be that as we age, it feels colder, but I'm undeterred! NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #430
why are you posting bullshit that slaves were treated well? CreekDog Aug 2014 #392
Slavery apologist, nazi apologist, troll. LexVegas Aug 2014 #393
AYFKM Mr Dixon Aug 2014 #402
liar...there is no African american professor noiretextatique Aug 2014 #405
you need education noiretextatique Aug 2014 #406
Finally this guy was banned LittleBlue Aug 2014 #413
"Aunt" and "Uncle" were not terms of respect Lydia Leftcoast Aug 2014 #417
Oh, now I understand the "unity poll" posted after this OP. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #418
The OP has been PPRed pintobean Aug 2014 #419
LOL. I was tempted to vote in the poll.... NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #420
Yeah, I saw that. pintobean Aug 2014 #421
I think it's a sad waste of energy. Slavery exists today in different forms. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #422
this was your first post in that thread CreekDog Aug 2014 #427
you really pay a lot of attention to this stuff, see my last post to you, lets go swimmin! NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #428
You kidding, right! Slaves were treated humanely. akbacchus_BC Aug 2014 #431
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME!! NT UMTerp01 Jul 2016 #433

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
1. Slaves were property. I'm sure some people took better care of their property than others.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:42 AM
Aug 2014

But property has no rights so slaves were at the mercy of their owners, as the movie adequately depicted.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
63. Yes, uncle and auntie would still be hunted down with dogs if they walked away,whipped, sold,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:43 PM
Aug 2014

and separated from family members if their owners changed their mind about them, or had a debt to settle.

I can't believe this bullshit OP was allowed to stand by a jury. I also don't believe that Gwendolyne Fortune ever said most slaves were treated well.

G_j

(40,367 posts)
2. I don't believe this
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:43 AM
Aug 2014

you've been taught a lie, it was by no means "most" who were treated as family.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
3. The slaves treated as members of the family were those who worked in the house.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:44 AM
Aug 2014

"Uncle" and "Aunt" were pejorative terms for elderly black people in the South for a century after the Civil War.

Field slaves were treated like the horses, mules, and other animals who worked in the fields.

The vast majority of slaves were chattel condemned to a life of working in the fields. The cotton gin exploded the slave trade.

At one point slaves in two states outnumbered the free whites. Here's the census from 1860:

whathehell

(29,067 posts)
226. I have one very small bone to pick with your assessment..
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:17 PM
Aug 2014

and that is that the terms "uncle" and "aunt" for elderly black people

in the South were not meant as pejoratives by those using them, they

were meant as terms of respect within the admittedly messed up mores of the time.

Apart from that, I would call your characterization correct.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
396. The above chart from 1860 seems to have actual counts of slaves in the population columns
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 12:26 PM
Aug 2014

and it's only in the Congressional apportionment that they get reduced to 3/5s of a person.
I compared the numbers for Mississippi and Missouri to the slave counts by age charts in the 1860 census and the numbers are similar (off by less than a hundred.)

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
5. Pat Buchanan, is that you?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:46 AM
Aug 2014

The film was based on an autobiography. So yes, the treatment of black people was abominable.

Start with Aptheker if you actually want to learn how great slavery was.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
267. And Frederick Douglass gave us an example of how far 'kindness' could go:
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:05 PM
Aug 2014

Last edited Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:35 PM - Edit history (1)



Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave was written in 1845 shortly after he escaped from his generous master:

I have said my master found religious sanction for his cruelty. As an example, I will state one of many facts going to prove the charge. I have seen him tie up a lame young woman, and whip her with a heavy cow skin upon her naked shoulders, causing the warm red blood to drip; and, in justification of the bloody deed, he would quote this passage of Scripture--"He that knoweth his master's will, and doeth it not, shall be beaten with many stripes."

Master would keep this lacerated young, woman tied up in this horrid situation four or five hours at a time. I have known him to tie her up early in the morning, and whip her before breakfast; leave her, go to his store, return at dinner, and whip her again, cutting her in the places already made raw with his cruel lash.

The secret of master's cruelty toward "Henny" is found in the fact of her being almost helpless. When quite a child, she fell into the fire, and burned herself horribly. Her hands were so burnt, that she never got the use of them. She could do very little but bear heavy burdens. She was to master a bill of expense; and as he was a mean man, she was a constant offence to him.

He seemed desirous of getting the poor girl out of existence. He gave her away once to his sister; but, being a poor gift, she was not disposed to keep her. Finally, my benevolent master, to use his own words, "set her adrift to take care of herself."

Here was a recently-converted man, holding on upon the mother, and at the same time turning out her helpless child, to starve and die! Master Thomas was one of the many pious slaveholders who hold slaves for the very charitable purpose of taking care of them.


Living at the whim or beck and call of another can never be a good thing. The slaves brought here were neither refugees or volunteers. The image above of an older Douglass still shows what his eyes have seen. There is no excuse for slavery, it is the worst form of theft.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
275. Perfect.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:17 PM
Aug 2014

I was thinking of the large number of slave revolts too. If things were so great, people wouldn't have been trying to get away, at great and terrible risk to their lives.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/did-african-american-slaves-rebel/



<snip>

So, did African-American slaves rebel? Of course they did. As early as 1934, our old friend Joel A. Rogers identified 33 slave revolts, including Nat Turner’s, in his 100 Amazing Facts. And nine years later, the historian Herbert Aptheker published his pioneering study, American Negro Slave Revolts, to set the record straight. Aptheker defined a slave revolt as an action involving 10 or more slaves, with “freedom as the apparent aim [and] contemporary references labeling the event as an uprising, plot, insurrection, or the equivalent of these.” In all, Aptheker says, he “has found records of approximately two hundred and fifty revolts and conspiracies in the history of American Negro slavery.” Other scholars have found as many as 313.

<snip>



CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
6. If only one slave was whipped one time that would be too fucking many for me
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:46 AM
Aug 2014

What is your threshold for beating human beings and owning them like property?

Fucking troll.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
7. You need to read some slave narratives on amazon.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:46 AM
Aug 2014

They are first person accounts and they are free. Well some are. I read most of them. Most slaves were treated like shit. You don't sell or rape or beat your family.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
9. There goes that slaves were treated well meme
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:47 AM
Aug 2014

I call bs on that. Being a slave while being a human being always has been and always will be a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION. It was a gross injustice. The things you see on DU these days. SMH

eta: I think you are either not quite truthful or your instructor greatly misinformed you. Enjoy your stay however short that may be

 

coljam

(188 posts)
15. Read the post
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:55 AM
Aug 2014

I said I didnt condone slavery, I just questioned the mistreatment of slaves as a whole.

Squinch

(50,950 posts)
23. You don't condone slavery, but you are pretty sure slavery was not that bad. Have you lived your
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:01 PM
Aug 2014

life under a rock that you are unaware that slavery is a bad thing?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
33. Question the mistreatment of slaves?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:11 PM
Aug 2014

And I suppose you think we just picknicked with the Native Americans, too? Internment camps were like boy scout camp? Jim Crow was not as bad as it sounds? Wow. Um? Maybe you just have blinders on. It was worse that 12 years a slave. From the middle passage on..

Call Me Wesley

(38,187 posts)
151. What in the definition of 'slave'
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:50 PM
Aug 2014

your hard-working brain doesn't get? Is being a 'slave' some condition you'd live in happily or would'nt your hard-working brain assume that being a 'slave' to begin with was mistreatment of your human rights?

 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
214. Who are you ? and the newbie that started this thread ?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:03 PM
Aug 2014

Did you need a match, or do you need to barrow Ken Burns ' Civil War ' or is that Hollywood ?

brush

(53,784 posts)
346. You're either a RW troll or a totally naive and uniformed, unread . . .
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 09:32 PM
Aug 2014

person that wondered unto DU and thought this crap would fly here.

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
354. you question the mistreatment of slaves as a whole?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 10:05 PM
Aug 2014


Do you not think slavery itself is mistreatment?

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
21. I was the alerter.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:00 PM
Aug 2014

I hope the wiseass jurors who left this racist tripe are proud of themselves.

Doubt they will be in here "teaching."

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert
On Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:43 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

Just saw 12 years a slave
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025363454

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Racist bullshit.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:50 AM, and voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Some slaves were treated as family.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Ignorant through design or circumstance needs education not ridicule. Without hate, teach.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Although it is full of ignorance, there is nothing here that actually comes off as racist. Just pure ignorance and thus does not warrant hiding but rather, should stand where others can provide an education to the poor poster who appears to be totally ignorant and has missed a history lesson or two along the way.


Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: the post is moronic, but Im sure the comments below the O.P. will "educate" this idiot.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Opinions are like assholes, I guess.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Just saw this post and was repelled by it. It is racist tripe.

Thank you.

Squinch

(50,950 posts)
25. That is a seriously disgusting jury summary. Some corner has been turned and it feels
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:03 PM
Aug 2014

like the trolls outnumber the liberals.

Iggo

(47,558 posts)
290. Wow! Good thing jurors are anonymous.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:53 PM
Aug 2014

I don't even wanna know which ones of us voted to leave that shit up.

elleng

(130,952 posts)
115. Good result, imo,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:56 PM
Aug 2014

and had I been on the jury, I would have been another juror 'leaving,' to educate the poster. I agree with Jurors #3, 4 & 5.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
118. Well, I guess we'd better tell Skinner to change the name of this forum then.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:00 PM
Aug 2014

Some of us didn't sign up for Stormfront talking points.

elleng

(130,952 posts)
178. It is not a lesson at all, its like a school teacher who is unable to discuss serious matters.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:20 PM
Aug 2014

The OP asked for a discussion and to be informed, and instead has received a huge amount of 'negative' (nice word) responses. Not at all in the DU or Dem Party spirit.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
198. The OP made an absurd assertion, one that anyone with even a rudimentary understanding
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:50 PM
Aug 2014

of the history of slavery in America would never make. The OP claims to have been told this by an African-American professor to add credence to the claim. A class in African-American studies, and the OP came away with the impression that it wasn't so bad being a slave if you had the right master? That's bullshit. Period.

Holding no quarter for FAUX news-like twisting of the facts? That's totally in the old DU and the Democratic party spirit.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
251. I did think I'd missed some plank in the Democratic Party platform.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:45 PM
Aug 2014

I didn't remember anything about being nice about racism.

BainsBane

(53,034 posts)
333. I guess bigotry is just another point of view
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:35 PM
Aug 2014

Someone hates blacks, no problem. Let them voice 19th century pro-slavery ideology. Why pretend this is a site of 21st century humans let alone liberals.

elleng

(130,952 posts)
336. I see no bigotry,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:44 PM
Aug 2014

no one hating blacks, or pro-slavery ideology, in the OP.

I see failures to pay attention to what others have posted here, and LOTS of jumping to conclusions.

BainsBane

(53,034 posts)
339. You are simply wrong
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:54 PM
Aug 2014

and uninformed about history. What the OP articulates is precisely the ideology 19th century slaveholders used to justify slavery, and they most certainly were racists.
Read this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5364802

Anyone who argues slavery was benevolent is a racist. It's not that tough to figure out.



elleng

(130,952 posts)
341. It is your OPINION that I am wrong,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 09:00 PM
Aug 2014

because in your view the OP articulates a 19th century ideology, and that I am uninformed about that ideology.

BainsBane

(53,034 posts)
382. It is not an opinion
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 10:04 AM
Aug 2014

It is a factual statement. Those are 19th century pro-slavery arguments. Not in my view, in reality.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
342. There is plenty of information in this thread that prove the racism and bigotry.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 09:04 PM
Aug 2014


The points the OP advances are all memes from racist websites and philosophies.

It's the utter depths of white chauvinism to make the paternalistic claim over and over, in the face of others providing feedback, including posters of color, that the bigoted opinions one is advancing are actual fact.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
403. who cares what you don't see?
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 12:59 PM
Aug 2014

who cares if you can't see it. your inability to see it has nothing to do with its existence.

you could fail to see that the earth isn't flat. big deal.

that says more about you than the thing you're talking about.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
385. would you also want to educate people who argue rape or murder is "not always so bad"?
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 11:13 AM
Aug 2014

Same shit as this OP. You've been trolled.

Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #21)

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
153. And of course, none of the activist jurors who demand "education" for the OP
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:53 PM
Aug 2014

have come forward and identified themselves and taken it upon themselves to "teach" this heaping pile of racist ignorance.

It is cruel and bestial. If people want to go argue with racists on the internet, there are plenty of other places.

elleng

(130,952 posts)
160. As I said,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:06 PM
Aug 2014

HAD I been a juror, I would have agreed with those voting to KEEP, and inform.

The posters here calling posters who seek EDUCATION and to KEEP, racist are NOT, imo, doing so in the DU, and Democratic Party spirit.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
162. That's nice.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:08 PM
Aug 2014

Are you going to get started then? I've been at this for hours dealing with the dirty diaper the others jurors left me with. I'd appreciate a break.

elleng

(130,952 posts)
169. Have done,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:15 PM
Aug 2014

and am going out for a while, will look at the Full Moon, and hope that the lunacy here will end.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
409. the OP was not seeking education
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 05:22 PM
Aug 2014

the OP has had 6 hidden posts so far because he's been posting things seek to minimize the harm of slavery and also, bonus, Nazis.

the poster is a troll.

the idea that you're castigating a member in good standing for questioning a jury that didn't hide racist statements about slavery not being so bad shows that you not only are your priorities misplaced, your judgement is sorely lacking.

elleng

(130,952 posts)
412. Fortunately for ME, I didn't follow the OP around,
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 05:31 PM
Aug 2014

didn't study his/her 'history.'

I 'castigated' someone? 'Sorry' you don't appreciate my judgment.

Call Me Wesley

(38,187 posts)
180. There are two posters,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:21 PM
Aug 2014

the ones I can argue with, the ones I know are good Democrats but perhaps have a lack of understanding in one issue. These are the ones who can educate me and I can reciprocate.

The other's are just plain idiots who ended up on the wrong forum. Not worth anymore time than to have a little dance.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
311. How very Barbara Bush of her.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:54 PM
Aug 2014

And no, I don't care if this will be my second ever hide. This thread is turning my stomach, and anyone who let it stand do likewise.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
315. I'm glad the "People's Jury" on this thread have caused the OP to have a month-long vacation.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:05 PM
Aug 2014

Hopefully EarlG will review the tapes and put this poster out of our misery.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
319. I'm afraid I don't have as much faith as you.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:18 PM
Aug 2014

Most likely we'll be told to "educate" the jackass, but to that I say, you can try to teach a pig to sing, but it'll waste your time and annoy the pig. Very tellingly, the OP refuses to listen to the arguments put forth in this thread, so let's hope sunlight will cause him to turn to stone - a tombstone!

Squinch

(50,950 posts)
257. There are some subjects where, if the poster is asking for "education," there is no question
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:50 PM
Aug 2014

that he is a troll whose aim is to waste our time. I would say asking if slavery is bad is one of those subjects. If a poster asked to be educated on whether murder was bad because he heard differently, I would think the same thing.

Under what rock does he need to be living to not know that slavery is a bad thing? And how much tolerance do we owe such trolls? To not allow people like this to waste our time is not an undemocratic act.

If the topic were something more likely to be the subject of confusion, I would agree with you, but I don't agree with you here.

Call Me Wesley

(38,187 posts)
182. I won't hold it either.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:23 PM
Aug 2014

Because we'd suffocate while they're still out there with a sign that reads: "I CAN TYPING!!11!!!"

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
245. Argh, sorry you got a hide up there. This place.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:40 PM
Aug 2014

At least the OP racked up enough for another time-out though.

kcr

(15,317 posts)
400. Well, see, the bigots need educating because hiding a post is just so mean!
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 12:35 PM
Aug 2014

But no equal consideration for anyone who calls out bigotry. That needs to be smacked down, pronto! That's just trolling right there

BainsBane

(53,034 posts)
334. Look what does get hidden
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:38 PM
Aug 2014

The post above. 19th century pro-slavery ideology is deemed acceptable, but calling it out is not.


Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
337. Yep.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:45 PM
Aug 2014

Because we're not being nice and "teaching" the OP.

Well, where I teach, the OP would be suspended and probably expelled for racism if he dropped this tripe in the classroom.

I'm not obliged (or even allowed) in real life to accept my students violating the civil rights of others in my classes, but evidently the bar is much lower here at DU.

liberalhistorian

(20,818 posts)
349. I was on the jury for that
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 09:42 PM
Aug 2014

post, and I am in disbelief that it was not only hidden, while the unbelievably ignorant, bigoted OP was allowed to stand, but that the vote was, incredibly, 2 to five to hide it. Sometimes I don't recognize this place anymore, and after eleven years here that's pretty sad. And I'm beginning to wonder if this is 1914 and not 2014. I simply cannot believe we're still having to educate about the horrors of slavery at this late date, 150 years after it finally, mercifully, ended. This has long been settled history.

BainsBane

(53,034 posts)
351. Try 1834
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 09:44 PM
Aug 2014

That's about the time frame of the argument in the OP. Honestly, this is all too much for me to take. I can't imagine anyone would think such ideas acceptable, let alone a place that is supposed to be liberal.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
414. Speaking of 1834, our president at the time was a genocidal racist.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 06:04 PM
Aug 2014

It amazes me that we could ever elect a man like Andrew Jackson as president.

BainsBane

(53,034 posts)
416. He also expanded the vote
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 07:23 PM
Aug 2014

to include unpropertied white men and was a war hero. You say genocidal racist like that was considered a bad thing at the time.

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
24. I wasn't on the jury, but this type of ignorance needs some sunlight.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:01 PM
Aug 2014

Let the disinfecting begin! LOL

Squinch

(50,950 posts)
302. This isn't ignorance. This poster is fully aware that slavery is bad. Because everyone is fully
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:33 PM
Aug 2014

aware that slavery is bad. This is trollery and an attempt to waste our time. Which, because the OP wasn't hidden, was successful.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
324. You could very well be correct.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:57 PM
Aug 2014

I feel we can't know the actual intent behind the OP.

Some people are just that deeply misinformed. Some people have been told, all their lives, that slave owners were kind to their slaves. They have been told that slaves were happy to be enslaved, contrary to all the evidence.

Squinch

(50,950 posts)
326. But if this were someone who was brainwashed all his life about slavery, he would not be seeking out
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:05 PM
Aug 2014

a site called Democratic Underground to ask his questions. Especially not using the argument, "I went to a better college than you could get into, and a black professor told me that slavery wasn't bad, so I'm just asking because I don't know." This is patently not genuine.

Beartracks

(12,814 posts)
248. Why alert and hide an offensively wrong post?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:43 PM
Aug 2014

Alerting and hiding posts like the OP denies the rest of us the benefit of the discussion that ensues.

I don't know about you all, but I derive value at DU by the discussions that take place, not by the discussions that don't.

=========================

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
253. I think a discussion
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:47 PM
Aug 2014

About whether or not slavery was a good thing is better suited for other sites.

Squinch

(50,950 posts)
305. You need a discussion about whether slavery was bad? Really? Can't we just accept that as a given?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:36 PM
Aug 2014

And can't we accept that a person suggesting otherwise is a troll and a waste of time?


Beartracks

(12,814 posts)
327. We can accept that as a given. Duh.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:05 PM
Aug 2014

But all *I* was saying is that, inevitably, in threads like this one, there are links to informative sites or books that I didn't know existed. And THAT is where I find value in such discussions.

=========================

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
410. because it makes it sound like reasonable people can disagree on whether slaves were mistreated
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 05:26 PM
Aug 2014

reasonable CAN NOT DISAGREE on whether slaves were mistreated or not.

slaves were mistreated. full stop.

this is just like those who want to discuss whether the holocaust really happened. IT DID.

there is no giving equal footing to a lie.

that's why it should be hidden.

kcr

(15,317 posts)
365. Skinner should ban the OP and everyone on that jury who voted to leave it
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 12:35 AM
Aug 2014

But he won't because that would be admitting that DU3 and the jury system is a huge pile of fail.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
81. No it is 4...the OP cannot be honest even when the obvious is obvious.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:27 PM
Aug 2014

I can't believe people are taking this OP seriously, some of the worst RWing drivel I've ever seen on this site. Looks like something straight out of Cliven Bundy's mouth.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
138. wish he' d just go to his Klan meeting and leave us alone
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:38 PM
Aug 2014

I am deeply offended slavery was inhumane regardless of the opinion of hate filled people and their revisionist history.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
263. No, you HAD 4, that is vieable by anybody when looking at an explanation of your % Jury.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:57 PM
Aug 2014

NOW, you have 6 and cannot post until September 8.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=215393&sub=trans

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
287. It's up to 6 now:
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:44 PM
Aug 2014

Last edited Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:21 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=215393

A member since 2008, but only saw his posts recently and thought he wouldn't last very long...

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
19. Did you know the movie is based on the autobiography of Solomon Northrup?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 11:59 AM
Aug 2014

Read the book. It will open your eyes and your mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Years_a_Slave

I have not seen the movie yet, so I do not know how true it is to the book, but the trailers I have seen look pretty close to it.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
20. This is the most bullshitty post I've ever seen here
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:00 PM
Aug 2014

and don't think it isn't obvious what game you're playing.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
41. And yet a jury let it stand. Puke.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:17 PM
Aug 2014

I hope the admins are paying attention to the jurors who decided this was worthy of an OP on DU.

Response to sufrommich (Reply #41)

 

coljam

(188 posts)
26. What sets us apart from the GOP is the
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:05 PM
Aug 2014

fact we can discuss issues in a civilized manner. People should be able to share opinions without being pilloried for them

Without this we are no better then those we disagree with.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
297. Some OPs use the 'JAQing off' methodolgy.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:19 PM
Aug 2014
JAQing off -

1. the act of spouting accusations while cowardly hiding behind the claim of "just asking questions."

2. asking questions and ignoring the answers. "He said he was going to present evidence, but instead he was just JAQing off..."

"Just asking questions" takes over when the answers are already well known, where the question embodies a point refuted a thousand times, or where the questioner exhibits willful ignorance.

In some cases, it also helps hide the nebulousness or absurdity of the questioner's own views...


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

IOW, some use JAQing, or the Just Asking Questions method about things that everyone either knows or can quickly google to find the answers or solutions.

Because they are not looking for facts and never respond to them and turn clearly disruptive, roundly abusing the person giving them facts. They want to garner reaction only.

This poster turned abusive and is blocked from this thread after his reply to Starry Messenger:

coljam

This message was hidden by Jury decision.

222. Sorry you couldnt get into the college I went to.

A member from 2008, who's reached the age of 59 as his Profile claims, is not ignorant about slavery.
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
38. We ARE better, because we are not stupid enough to think slavery was pleasant.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:13 PM
Aug 2014

Dude, do you like, live near Cliven Bundy? Seems like he may have been teaching classes in your schools on Slavery.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
53. I about puked the first time I read it.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:28 PM
Aug 2014

There is no need to read it twice your message was loud and clear.

abelenkpe

(9,933 posts)
136. I suggest
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:35 PM
Aug 2014

you spend 12 as a slave and get back to the rest of us on your experience. Make sure your owners and the society you dwell in view you as only 3/5ths human, too.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
43. Your opinion that humans who were bought by other humans
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:19 PM
Aug 2014

were treated well? That's Stormfront shit.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
90. If you spew apologies for slavery, you will be informed
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:37 PM
Aug 2014

of your egregious error. It is amazing that your OP was not hidden by that jury. Please don't attempt to justify slavery on DU because it "wasn't so bad." You got lucky this time. Don't expect that luck again. That's my advice.

boston bean

(36,221 posts)
150. No what sets us apart, usually, is that we aren't racist.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:50 PM
Aug 2014

Or at least there was a time, this racist tripe bullshit would have earned the banhammer in about 3 seconds after posting.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
411. are you upset that we can't discuss whether or not slaves were mistreated Skippy?
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 05:30 PM
Aug 2014

does that trouble you?

would you like DU to have long discussions about the idea that maybe perhaps slaves were treated kindly by their masters (owners)?

well that would explain a lot if that's your wish.

ecstatic

(32,705 posts)
424. You're setting very low standards
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:58 PM
Aug 2014

The type of ignorance (trolling?) displayed in the OP is beyond the scope of DU discussion. People joining this site should be familiar with and supportive of liberal/progressive/democratic ideology and have basic common sense. Let him/her/it get educated elsewhere. Go to Yahoo answers or something.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
28. My great great great grandfather was African-American he escaped slavery
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:05 PM
Aug 2014

I take great offense to your post. He and his wife were treated less than human and had to be married by a judge who was involved in the abolition movement. Not long after their marriage the Civil War ended. They had very few friends people burnt their barn down harassed their kids and made life miserable for them.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
36. From what I've read, it depended on region, master, crop and duties of the slave
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:12 PM
Aug 2014

For instance, the system of placage in New Orleans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placage

The sugar plantations were brutal. So many died around the tremendous heat needed to boil the cane that a constant flow of slaves was needed from Africa. Not to mention the disease in such a tropical climate. This was in contrast to a crop like indigo.

House slaves were better off than field slaves. Lighter skinned had it easier than darker skinned. Children and concubines of the master had it relatively easiest of all.

From one autobiography I read, some masters were sadistic monsters. Others, like Ben Franklin I suppose, retained their humanity and saw slavery for what it was.

12 Years a Slave was a really good movie, BTW, and probably accurate in depicting the lives of many who endured under slavery. Saying "treated like members of the family" isn't the way I'd describe hanging a slave through the ribs by a meat hook.

BainsBane

(53,034 posts)
357. Corrections (for outside readers)
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 10:33 PM
Aug 2014

since Little Blue has said he doesn't bother to read my posts. I nonetheless feel compelled to correct some of this so as not to allow false information to stand unchecked in case anyone comes across his post and decides to take it as fact.

Slave masters certainly did vary considerably as individuals, that is true. Many slave narratives, like that of Frederick Douglass, show a change were a slave started with a reasonable master but was later sold or hired out to a particularly cruel one. To argue that treatment depended on the type of crop produced, however, is not accurate. Certainly some work was harder than others, but the treatment depended on the mores in the particular region as well as the character of the planter. There were literally hundreds of different occupations on sugar plantations. English lacks a word to describe the sugar plantation complex, known as ingenios in Spanish and engenhos in Portuguese. Many slaves worked as field laborers and others operating some of the highly skilled functions necessary to construct, maintain, and operate the sugar mill, or trapiche. See Manuel Moreno Fraginals, The Sugarmill on sugar ingenios in Cuba. He lists the huge variety of slave occupations necessary to keep the sugar plantation complex going.

Historians debated for years where treatment was harsher in the US or in Catholic countries in Latin America. There was no resolution to the debate. Some aspects, like whippings, were more severe in places like Brazil (the country that received the overwhelming majority of African slaves), but they also had greater protection under the law and greater opportunities for manumission. The bottom line is that slavery was incredibly oppressive wherever it existed, though aspects of the institution did vary from region to region and country to country.

While house slaves did not do arduous labor in the fields, they remained under the master's, and mistress's, gaze all the time. To survive, they had to wear a mask of compliance that belied their real feelings (referred to by historians as the "Sambo mask&quot . They were not "treated like family." Planters told themselves they treated their slaves like family, but one does not own family members or sell off their children. As union troops approached during the war, those household slaves that masters believed were "like family" were often the first to flee. (See Leon Litwack, Been in the Storm so Long). That demonstrated that they certainly did not see their owners as family.

To argue that slave women had it "easiest" is patently false and ignores the reality of life in the Big House. Women working in households were regularly raped, though field slaves were also raped. Masters, however, had easier access to female house slaves. Read, for example, the testimonial by a former slave and abolitionist. Harriet Jacobs, Incidents in a life of a Slave Girl. There is not a single testimonial of a slave woman that does not speak about her rape by a master, overseer, or member of the master's family. It was not uncommon for slave girls to bear their master's children. Plantation mistresses often took their frustrations over their husbands infidelity out on slave girls by inflicting particularly brutal punishments. (See Elizabeth Fox-Genovese, Within the Plantation Household).

To argue that female household slaves were "concubines" who had it easiest is a completely false and offensive statement. It ignores the fact those women were owned, regularly beaten by masters, slaves, and overseers, and that they were repeatedly raped and lived under the close surveillance of the master's family. How "easy" would your life be if you were raped on a continual basis? That reality has led historians to write about slave women's double-exploitation, as both forced laborers and sex slaves. See Deborah Gray-White, Ar'n't I a Woman?: Female Slaves in the Plantation South. I also found this article on double-exploitation online through Jstor, which allows limited free access.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4030682?uid=3739736&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104576137323

I can't help but observe this discussion over slave women "having it easy" dovetails with recent discussions on prostitution and human trafficking. The fact that a slave is owned and has no right to choose her sexual partners, one would think, should be obvious to anyone. Little wonder some think human trafficking not worth concerning themselves with, while others insist that underage girls as young as 9, as one poster insisted, willingly "choose the profession" of prostitution. People give lip service to notions of consenting adults and ignore that a great deal of the sex trade is anything but. Whether now or in the Antebellum era, slaves do not consent to sex. They are forced into it because they are owned. Children and young teens cannot consent to sex because they are under age. These are basic concepts that one would think anyone would understand. Sadly that is not the case.

onecent

(6,096 posts)
45. At the age of 9 the kids call it a "PARADE".....you dip You didn't know
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:20 PM
Aug 2014

what you were doing there except throwing candy to parade watchers...ROFL

 

coljam

(188 posts)
50. I did something to make the world a better place
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:24 PM
Aug 2014

I wonder what my detractors have done other then whine?

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
58. We aren't whining buddy.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:35 PM
Aug 2014

We have probably done more things than you. At nine a parent would have brought you anyway I don't see that as a great plus. I think you knew what kind of response you would get here and are seeking attention. Didn't your parents teach you positive attention is always better than negative attention?

NOLALady

(4,003 posts)
264. This detractor
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:59 PM
Aug 2014

marched and went to jail at the age of 15 for the crime of demanding voting rights for my parents.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
47. One thing the movie shows is that there was no such thing as "good" slave owners.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:22 PM
Aug 2014

Last edited Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:22 PM - Edit history (1)

The Benedict Cumberbatch character shows this.

He tries to do "the right thing" but in doing so causes more problems, because he's buying into a corrupt system.

Maybe you should watch the movie again.

on edit: typo

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
314. Note that the Benedict Cumberbatch character
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:04 PM
Aug 2014

bought a woman and had to tear her away from her children.

Coventina

(27,120 posts)
335. Exactly. He feels "bad" about it, but not bad enough to change his behavior.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:42 PM
Aug 2014

The idea that there were "good" slave owners is a fallacy the South tells itself to salve its conscience.

It's a bunch of bull-pucky.

unblock

(52,243 posts)
49. i suppose some slaves were indeed treated like family members
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:23 PM
Aug 2014

if you have someone in your family who is under house arrest and who can't leave without a vicious posse hunting them down, beating them up and dragging them (quite possibly literally) back to their "owner".

that knowledge is enough to make any pretense of a nice, cordial, or even friendly relationship a joke. it's more than enough to turn "consensual" sex into rape.

yes, some masters were less brutal than others, i suppose perhaps some masters never inflicted any physical punishment at all (beyond the harsh working conditions themselves). but they quite likely did so because the slaves knew better than to give them any trouble. the threat of violence was always there, because it was encoded into the law.

*everything* slaves did was under duress.

Raine1967

(11,589 posts)
246. You said you were taught that.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:41 PM
Aug 2014

and here you are in this thread actually agreeing with what you were taught.

You are a Shyster, IMO.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
55. I find it hard to wrap my head around your kind of thinking.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:29 PM
Aug 2014

I almost suspect it's posted merely to provoke.

And yes, despite your denial, you are indeed defending slavery.

Lint Head

(15,064 posts)
57. 'Treating your slaves well'? 'Treat them as family'? Wow. So much hypocrisy and irony
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:33 PM
Aug 2014

packed into one phrase. It's just amazing.

1. They are "slaves". That is mistreatment from the very get go.
2. There "family" is the family they were born into not the one that enslaved them.
3. It's a fact the slaves were rarely sold as a complete family but were broken up and sold based on their particular strength and skills.
4. It's also a fact that they were punished, usually flogging, if they ran away and were caught or simply broke rules of the plantation.
5. They were humiliated into be subservient to a master.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
69. Well with OPs like that, I don't think he/she will be here long.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:56 PM
Aug 2014

Not calling the OP a liar...oh wait, yeah I am.

raccoon

(31,111 posts)
64. Either you are woefully ignorant, or you are a troll stirring up crap.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:44 PM
Aug 2014
This is not to say that some are evil , but that was the exception rather then the rule.


You say that like it's a fact, just because you said so.

I think you're a shameless troll and some on that jury were idiots and/or trolls.


 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
68. Slavery is though.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:56 PM
Aug 2014

All of it. Even when you call your captives Aunt and Uncle, before you send them to their shack to make themselves some ashcakes in the fire before settling into their cold rags for the night, dreaming about the children you sold away from them.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
313. And before you rape their daughter - after all, she is property
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:02 PM
Aug 2014

How can it be any different from masturbating with a plastic vagina? Perhaps I should put rape in scare quotes - how can you rape a thing?

And after all, you are treating her like family (like your wife, who doesn't have the right to refuse sex either) and she may very well be your sister!

 

coljam

(188 posts)
71. to accept slavery as totally evil
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:06 PM
Aug 2014

you have to indict 90% of the US. population as evil. Abolitionists made up a very small % of the population. Many great Americans accepted slavery for what it was as apposed to changing things, for some time this included Lincoln.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
72. Check out that 1860 census table above.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:11 PM
Aug 2014

Last edited Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Even at the dawn of the Civil War many Americans had already condemned slavery as totally evil. The ones who weren't doing so were disproportionately those who owned or directly benefited from the ownership of other humans.

They were wrong and thankfully they didn't prevail in the Civil War.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
75. I read exactly what you meant.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:20 PM
Aug 2014

So go for it. There is much slavery still in existence. Go be enslaved by one of those nice little families and tell us how great you have it. You'll be just like one of the family, like a little pet.

How nice for you.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
76. 90 percent of the population did not own slaves.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:22 PM
Aug 2014

I do not believe you studied this in college at all. You would know that slaves were not owned by 90 percent of the population. Lincoln was a product of his times and as such was a white supremacist. He still did what he had to do. He pried those slaves out of some cold dead hands.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
82. True...gonna be a hot hot summer.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:28 PM
Aug 2014

This one must have come straight from the Bundy Ranch...pretty much the exact same thing Bundy said.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
91. Well just one more hide to go...161 posts and 4 hides already
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:37 PM
Aug 2014

BUT said poster is here only for honest and sincere reasons...no doubt.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
96. Yes, yes, high minded discussions only.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:40 PM
Aug 2014

A gathering of lofty folks who dabble in whitewashing history to sooth our modern palettes. This guy is unreal. Reminds me of somebody, dunno who though.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
172. Yes and David Duke was also a teacher
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:17 PM
Aug 2014

The students were future tea party members. Their diplomas were Klan cards

 

coljam

(188 posts)
85. I agree most people did not own slaves
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:29 PM
Aug 2014

but to say all masters mistreated or harmed their slaves is to condemn the whole country. By the way it was no picnic to be a Black freeman in the North., and before you go off and say I said it was not better to be free read what I said.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
86. You read it.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:31 PM
Aug 2014

It was stupid. Like Cliven Bundy 'wondering' if maybe we were happier picking cotton. That kinda stupid.

catbyte

(34,393 posts)
175. What 90% of Americans did at the time was evil. Face it. I am Ojibwe, and what white
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:20 PM
Aug 2014

people did to my people was vile & evil too.

Grow up.

mnhtnbb

(31,391 posts)
220. If you are trying to argue that good people turned a blind eye to slavery,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:10 PM
Aug 2014

well, that's a true statement.

But if you are trying to argue that slavery wasn't enforced through
extremely brutal methods, then you need to do some more research.

NOLALady

(4,003 posts)
270. Evidently the Africans
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:08 PM
Aug 2014

and their descendants weren't considered Americans, since they were only 3/5ths human. I am quite certain that those Black Americans who were treated as 3/5 of a human, believed that things should change.

Ms. Toad

(34,074 posts)
285. "to accept slavery as totally evil"
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:42 PM
Aug 2014

You are actually positing on a progressive site that slavery was anything other than totally evil???

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
83. It's autobiographical, you see.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:28 PM
Aug 2014

Your post, though, is offensive on many levels. I cannot believe your apology for slavery was left to stand by a jury. Disgusting.

 

coljam

(188 posts)
88. While you keep going after my posts
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:33 PM
Aug 2014

I feel compelled to turn the other cheek. I feel that if one does not share your opinion they are not entitled to their own or as you said
Thou dost protest too much.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
93. Whoa!!
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:37 PM
Aug 2014

You feel picked on? You are too much!! Nobody forced you to type this nonsense into your internet machine.

You completely whitewashed slavery and you wonder why you're getting schooled by MM. I'm gonna be watching you too. I found this to be a bit unsettling.

 

coljam

(188 posts)
119. As I said before I am glad I dont live in a society
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:00 PM
Aug 2014

where those who dont have the same opinions ,are brought to juries with self appionted thought police. WAtch me all you want if I cant have my own opinions that might differ from the mainstream I dont want to be in your little club.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
122. Thoughts are in your head.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:06 PM
Aug 2014

Once you release them, they're fair game for criticism. You're not in my club. That's why I need to watch you a bit. Anybody that minimizes the impact of centuries of degradation, abuse, rape, familial separation by force for profit of others, loss of culture, family structures, theft of generational wealth, beatings, lack of freedom of movement, racism, lynchings, millions of deaths aboard ships in the middle passage, and suggests that calling somebody Aunt or Uncle and maybe, maybe, being kinda nice to some of them makes it 'not so bad' needs correction and schooling. Especially if they say they went to college.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
95. I reply to posts. I have no idea who you are.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:39 PM
Aug 2014

If you post stuff that smacks of racism, though, you can count on me to speak up. And apologies for slavery as "not so bad" is about the worst sort of apology for racism.

I do not turn the other cheek in such cases, and will not in the future.

catbyte

(34,393 posts)
181. Self righteousness & self pity are not very sexy, coljam.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:23 PM
Aug 2014

BTW, were you ignored as a child? Seriously.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
89. Same here, I hope the admins are looking at this poster closely.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:34 PM
Aug 2014

The OP is exactly what one would expect from the Bundy Ranch.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
97. It's a deeply offensive post. I cannot sit quietly by
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:41 PM
Aug 2014

when someone writes an apology for slavery. I will never do that. It is simply completely unacceptable on DU or anywhere, as far as I am concerned. Racism is something I confront whenever it occurs.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
99. Good for you, I do too.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:43 PM
Aug 2014

The OP KNOWS they made a very offensive thread and now seems to be wallowing in the attention it gained. Sad really.

 

coljam

(188 posts)
126. Well their no racism in any of my posts
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:14 PM
Aug 2014

I was commenting on the institution of slavery as an economic force not as a racial issue .I am sure the masters didn't hurt thee slaves because they were black. Look at slavery through the eyes of someone born in the 1850s this might give you another opinion.By the way ,many slave owners were black.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
134. Slavery WAS a racial issue.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:33 PM
Aug 2014

States righters focus on 'the economic institution of slavery'. They are idiots. There are even some black ones! And so what if some slave owners were black? Most were not. And the slaves were not white.

And yes. The masters DID hurt slaves because they were black. They wouldn't have been able to do those horrible things to white people. American slavery was based on race. Period. You cannot separate them. Whitewasher!!!!!

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
230. Slavery is not just an economic issue at all. It is a human rights
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:26 PM
Aug 2014

issue. To enslave someone means that you consider that person less than a human being. Slavery, as it was in the US, is as racist as it gets. Only black people were slaves here.

I look at slavery from a human perspective. It is and always was simply wrong. Period.

You keep doubling down on this. It's going to catch up with you soon if you continue.

NOLALady

(4,003 posts)
320. I am a genealogist.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:41 PM
Aug 2014

I often look at slavery through the eyes of my ancestors who were born in the 1850s as well as before 1850. Most of them were enslaved. Some escaped before the War. At least one of my ancestors was interviewed by the Freedmans Bureau. His wife helped him escape before he could be killed. He was born c.1843.

There were black slave owners in Louisiana. Greed and evil knows no color.

Mira

(22,380 posts)
87. Read the book. It's written by
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:31 PM
Aug 2014

the man who the story is about who describes what happened to him. In beautiful stilted English. He wrote it about 1842, after the ordeal was over and he was saved.
The film follows the book almost to the letter.
so, YES, this is what happened to Salomon Northup (hope I remember the name correctly)

 

coljam

(188 posts)
101. I am not questioning what happened to Solomen
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:45 PM
Aug 2014

I just do not believe you can indict a whole society on the experience of one man.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
112. Do you honestly believe there were or are people
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:53 PM
Aug 2014

who are OK with being bought and sold as slaves? So some slaves "acted" happy? I would act happy too if it kept me from torture or death or having my children sold. Cripes.

 

coljam

(188 posts)
137. No
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:35 PM
Aug 2014

Slavery was wrong I never said any different.What I did say was humans are not that bad as to mistreat a whole class of people for race. While I have no doubt some mistreated their slaves ,I can not believe human beings are so evil as to mistreat a whole class of people.
Dont look at this post through 2014 eyes put yourself back in the 1850s.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
139. Humans are not that bad? Try Germany in the 1940's.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:40 PM
Aug 2014

Or were the Jews happy there too, for the most part?

Response to arcane1 (Reply #139)

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
154. Nowhere did I indict anyone. What percentage do you think were aware of the holocaust?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:53 PM
Aug 2014

You do realize there are other options between "nobody knew about it" and "everyone was responsible", right?

Ms. Toad

(34,074 posts)
291. You're really bad at analogies.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:55 PM
Aug 2014

Sets of people

Americans during slavery:

All Americans
Americans who owned slaves
Slave owners who mistreated slaves


Germans during the holocause:

All Germans
Germans who participated in the holocaust
Germans who participated in the holocaust who mistreated Jews

What you keep repeating is that you can't believe all masters mistreated their slaves - that is equivalent to saying you can't believe that all Germans who participated in the holocaust mistreated Jews. Which is NOT the equivalent of asking whether one indicts all Americans for what the slave owners who mistreated slaves did.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
293. The jury did hide the "the German's didn't know post"
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:06 PM
Aug 2014

Juror #6 had an "interesting" take that I would like to refute:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/17/johnezard

The mass of ordinary Germans did know about the evolving terror of Hitler's Holocaust, according to a new research study. They knew concentration camps were full of Jewish people who were stigmatised as sub-human and race-defilers. They knew that these, like other groups and minorities, were being killed out of hand.

They knew that Adolf Hitler had repeatedly forecast the extermination of every Jew on German soil. They knew these details because they had read about them. They knew because the camps and the measures which led up to them had been prominently and proudly reported step by step in thousands of officially-inspired German media articles and posters according to the study, which is due to be published simultaneously in Britain and the US early next month and which was described as ground-breaking by Oxford University Press yesterday and already hailed by other historians.

The reports, in newspapers and magazines all over the country were phases in a public process of "desensitisation" which worked all too well, culminating in the killing of 6m Jews, says Robert Gellately. His book, Backing Hitler, is based on the first systematic analysis by a historian of surviving German newspaper and magazine archives since 1933, the year Hitler became chancellor. The survey took hundreds of hours and yielded dozens of folders of photocopies, many of them from the 24 main newspapers and magazines of the period.



YOUR COMMENTS

So we have posts from this poster stating that "slaves were treated as members of the family' and now a post stating that only a small percentage of Germans knew what the Nazi's were up to. Come on, folk losing property, with stars on their chests, being marched off and only a small percentage of Germans noticed. please consider what the posting of apologies/ rationalizations of human atrocities means to DU. This poster does not appear to be interested in learning anything.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:49 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I have to agree - the postings when put together don't pass the smell test.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: troll
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I happen to agree with the comment that the atrocities were not widely known to the German people.

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
159. Wrong again. What college did you go to, Bob Jones?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:05 PM
Aug 2014
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/17/johnezard

Germans knew of Holocaust horror about death camps




Details of deaths of Jews and other groups in concentration camps were well publicised

John Ezard
The Guardian, Friday 16 February 2001 21.09 EST
The mass of ordinary Germans did know about the evolving terror of Hitler's Holocaust, according to a new research study. They knew concentration camps were full of Jewish people who were stigmatised as sub-human and race-defilers. They knew that these, like other groups and minorities, were being killed out of hand.

They knew that Adolf Hitler had repeatedly forecast the extermination of every Jew on German soil. They knew these details because they had read about them. They knew because the camps and the measures which led up to them had been prominently and proudly reported step by step in thousands of officially-inspired German media articles and posters according to the study, which is due to be published simultaneously in Britain and the US early next month and which was described as ground-breaking by Oxford University Press yesterday and already hailed by other historians.

The reports, in newspapers and magazines all over the country were phases in a public process of "desensitisation" which worked all too well, culminating in the killing of 6m Jews, says Robert Gellately. His book, Backing Hitler, is based on the first systematic analysis by a historian of surviving German newspaper and magazine archives since 1933, the year Hitler became chancellor. The survey took hundreds of hours and yielded dozens of folders of photocopies, many of them from the 24 main newspapers and magazines of the period.

Landmark

Its results, Professor Gellately says, destroy the claim - generally made by Germans after Berlin fell in 1945 and accepted by most historians - that they did not know about camp atrocities. He concludes by indicating that the only thing many Germans may not have known about was the use of industrial-scale gas chambers because, unusually, no media reports were allowed of this "final solution". However, by the end of the war camps were all over the country and many Germans worked in them.



Fascism and slavery are evil, and societies that perpetuate them are evil. That's why we went to war to end both.

Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #159)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
225. Awww c'mon!
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:16 PM
Aug 2014

That is a very intelligent poster!! Un poco de consejo, no? You could self delete and end this trainwreck. Many posters have used this little know trick to end the pain of a rotten thread. Just saying.

tammywammy

(26,582 posts)
231. Just did a little research
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:28 PM
Aug 2014

Gwen Fortune taught at Loyola University in Chicago. They have a 91% acceptance rate. So pretty much anyone could get in there.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,838 posts)
355. She also taught at our community college. I remember her.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 10:06 PM
Aug 2014

Guess what our acceptance rate is?
Seriously, though, I recall her being a respected instructor so I have a hard time believing Coljam got the lesson straight.

A-Schwarzenegger

(15,596 posts)
238. RESULTS:
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:35 PM
Aug 2014

This post gets hidden, but pro-slavery, not so much...

.............

On Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:19 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Sorry
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5364880

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

OTT personal insult, unnecessary, insensitive, rude.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:30 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This troll is doubling down on his ridiculous OP, and now he's insulting another DUer. Maybe a hidden post will get his attention, or MIRT's.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is a train wreck in progress.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Probably true.lol.Not all of us got into Harvard
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Meh.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Indeed, and no other redeeming value in the post.

alp227

(32,026 posts)
278. because of getting two hides in one day coljam is flagged for review.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:32 PM
Aug 2014

I think it should be easy to escort this user. Just look at that user's hidden posts!

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
280. Good point.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:34 PM
Aug 2014

When things are reviewed by the Admins around here, the right thing almost always happens.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
296. More startling than his/her hidden posts ...
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:15 PM
Aug 2014

.... are posts that were allowed to stand (such as the OP)

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
229. Lame, even by your abysmal standards.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:25 PM
Aug 2014

You would have been hooted out of mine. I went to a nice college in the middle of Oakland, CA. If you'd tried to soft-pedal and minimize the role of racism in slavery, I guarantee you'd have been rated, at best, a rather slow fellow.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
236. Really? What college was that, coljam?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:33 PM
Aug 2014

Do tell.

ETA: I don't expect an answer. The post I was replying to was hidden and coljam is now unable to post for some time, since his/her transparency page is now visible.

Thanks to the alerter and the jury!

PassingFair

(22,434 posts)
331. One where they didn't assign THIS book, apparently...
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:24 PM
Aug 2014


Book gave me the CREEPs...but is a must read if you are
interested in how an entire culture can become complicit in atrocity.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
145. "I can not believe human beings are so evil as to mistreat a whole class of people"
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:46 PM
Aug 2014

You mean like buying whole classes of humans as a commodity? That's not something you consider evil?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
149. Do you believe the Holocaust was real?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:48 PM
Aug 2014

Or did they just let the 'saunas' get too hot a 'few' times?

If I remember correctly, one set of people nearly exterminated another set of people. Based on race and lies. You are whitewashing history and it's stupid.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
317. Post #152
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:10 PM
Aug 2014

Apparently, the Holocaust was real ... the German people just weren't aware of what was going on ....?????

Clearly no one can be this stupid, the level of idiocy this poster has reached takes some practice

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
113. You can if it's based on Slavery.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:56 PM
Aug 2014

Duh. It got indicted by the US government and there was a war prosecuted and won. So yes, we can indict a slave based economy as evil. I feel like Dani Targaryan.

Response to coljam (Reply #101)

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
123. That's self serving bullshit, your OP is nothing but a questioning of the trutfulness of the book's
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:11 PM
Aug 2014

story and author. The OP very clearly questions his story 'how much of this is true' you ask. Not only ignorant but also mendacious and dishonest.

Mira

(22,380 posts)
129. He was not just "one man"
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:23 PM
Aug 2014

I understand your words and find them simplistic. It cramps my gut to think that after seeing that film, and knowing it was a true story of the lives of many as he describes what he lived, you would think paternalistic treatment of a person who is your slave could be OK.

Many Germans shied away from facing up to what their country did in the Holocaust (the Third Reich lasted 12 years)
and soft pedaled what they heard without trying to really educate themselves about it.
Fear of the truth makes many shallow, i. e. those who continue to watch the Fox channel even after hearing they are being lied to.

Many Americans are doing the same thing about slavery (which lasted about 200 years)
and think that the patronization, head patting that some house slaves received was "good treatment".
They were all not free and all owned like chattel and like livestock, and that's the bottom line.

There is a lot of good literature that could help you expand your knowledge. The one I recently read was about the Great Migration, why and how it happened, "The Warmth of other suns" by Isabel Wilkerson.

mnhtnbb

(31,391 posts)
111. Solomon Northup's memoir--Twelve Years a Slave--was written after he was rescued
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:53 PM
Aug 2014

in January 1853. He had been in bondage for 12 years when he was rescued.

Copies of the memoir are available on Amazon. I have one.

Brother Buzz

(36,440 posts)
128. The book is Salomon Northup's narrative as told to David Wilson
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:20 PM
Aug 2014

The book was dutifully fact-checked back in the day, and the ensuing trial was even covered by the New York Times.

Oh, that beautiful stilted English was an extremely typical style in use in 1853, in both the press and literature.

hlthe2b

(102,283 posts)
92. It is a bit hard for me to think that those who bought/sold and "owned" slaves...
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:37 PM
Aug 2014

would somehow consider this "property" to be members of the family in MOST cases. The very fact of "owning" another human being sets forth a division--they become the "other"...

I'm sure some slaveholders were more compassionate than others in how they treated their slaves, some of the "house slaves" earned some endearment in the famly, and certainly not all beat and violently abused them. But, the exceptions very likely do not make the rule. Having lived in the deep South during much of my "formative" years, I heard this assertion that "slaves were members of the family" over and over and over again. I think it is largely an excuse for the inexcusable acts of their ancestors.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
94. Until women were given the right to vote
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:38 PM
Aug 2014

Their fathers and husbands considered them part of the family too, albeit with no rights over their children or owning property or inheritance rights. And most husbands probably didn't beat their wives even though women were considered their personal property and they had the legal right to beat them.

Well, except for the very few men who did beat their wives.

Also, only the rich Southern white men who had plantations and large farms owned slaves. There wasn't one in every household.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
390. My family did not have plantations or large farms. We occasionally owned slaves.
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 11:25 AM
Aug 2014

The Norman/Celtic South was a military culture. In a military culture:

- Land Owners are in charge.
- Warriors are revered.
- Craftsmen are respected as long as they know their place.
- Workers are the lowest form of life on the planet. Only a completely worthless piece of garbage with no sense of self worth would ever willingly submit to work for another.

You need help around the (small) farm? You buy a slave. Most small farms did not need regular help. But from time to time that is going to be necessary.

The quote on this subject is too short. It should be, "most southerners did not own a slave at any given moment". But pretty much everybody owned a slave at one time or another. For my family it appears we owned a slave or two roughly every other census.


 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
103. RWing talking points have no place on DU imo.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:47 PM
Aug 2014

What is sad, is that a jury let this one stand!

Squinch

(50,950 posts)
266. The stock answer for those who have lost the argument and can't admit it. And don't look now
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:04 PM
Aug 2014

but in this context, it makes no sense whatsoever. Is that how they used it in that college you went to?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
106. This normally would have been hidden i think.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:50 PM
Aug 2014

If the poster was better known people would see the idiocy better. I am optimistic that it will be deleted or the poster will get it handed to him until he breaks.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
104. This entire OP and all of your replies, and the jury who left it are pure distilled idiocy.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:49 PM
Aug 2014

You are thicker than the earth's crust if you actually believe the crap you are typing.

 

coljam

(188 posts)
110. I am glad I dont live in your society
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:53 PM
Aug 2014

where you are the self appointed thought POLICE. think about it.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
114. Look who else agrees with you:
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:56 PM
Aug 2014

The KKK. Go you!



You do live in my society, the one where I get to tell you what I think of your thoughts. Yay us!

You're the one who took a KKK sized dump on this forum, be proud of that son!

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
117. We wouldn't need to police you if you kept your 'thoughts' to 'yourself'.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 01:59 PM
Aug 2014

Now would we? You gave us more work to do. For free. Hmmm. Maybe I can see why YOU don't think it was that bad. You wouldn't be working for free.

BainsBane

(53,034 posts)
228. It's called a basic understanding of history
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:25 PM
Aug 2014

It is not okay to repeat arguments from 19th century slaveholders as fact. She characterized your posts perfectly.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
232. Yeah, I was the alerter. I thought the intentions of the OP were clear as glass, but he got a 2-5
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:29 PM
Aug 2014

Next time I'll use small words and diagrams for the jury, I guess.

d_r

(6,907 posts)
120. I saw this movie once
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:01 PM
Aug 2014

called "song of the south" and all the black folks got together and sang songs and this really nice black man named Uncle Remus told the white children all these happy stories about rabbits and tar babies. So I think it was really more like that.

Oh yeah, one other thing. Cool story, bro.

mnhtnbb

(31,391 posts)
124. If it hadn't been illegal for slaves to learn to read and write
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:13 PM
Aug 2014

there would undoubtedly be more memoirs like Solomon's. As it is, I'm sure
there are plenty of stories that have been verbally handed down in black
families.

To look at the history from the view of white women with personal knowledge of slavery, you might find it interesting
to read the experience of the abolitionist sisters, Angelina and Sarah Grimke, from Charleston, SC, who were
legends in their own time.

http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/essays/angelina-and-sarah-grimke-abolitionist-sisters

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
165. The WPA Oral History Project
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:09 PM
Aug 2014

Born in Slavery: Slave Narratives from the Federal Writers' Project, 1936-1938 contains more than 2,300 first-person accounts of slavery and 500 black-and-white photographs of former slaves. These narratives were collected in the 1930s as part of the Federal Writers' Project of the Works Progress Administration (WPA) and assembled and microfilmed in 1941 as the seventeen-volume Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States from Interviews with Former Slaves. This online collection is a joint presentation of the Manuscript and Prints and Photographs Divisions of the Library of Congress and includes more than 200 photographs from the Prints and Photographs Division that are now made available to the public for the first time.
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/snhtml/

mnhtnbb

(31,391 posts)
177. Ha. A real treasure trove. I think I've heard about this,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:20 PM
Aug 2014

but didn't remember it.

Interesting that it was compiled during a Dem Administration--during the Great Depression--by out of
work writers.

And yet what do we have as a tribute to the south from the Depression era?

Gone With the Wind.

Freddie

(9,267 posts)
130. Read the book
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:24 PM
Aug 2014

It's free or .99 for Kindle, public domain
The movie sticks to the book pretty much 100%.

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
132. After the civil war ended
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:27 PM
Aug 2014

the plantation owners and their families (all of them without exception) needed to hang in public for their crimes.

Call Me Wesley

(38,187 posts)
147. Next thing you tell me that
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 02:47 PM
Aug 2014

all your friends are black. If so, ask them.

I do think you're on the wrong forum, though. There's a definition we have here for what you do. But still you're on the wrong forum.

Call Me Wesley

(38,187 posts)
173. Then ask him if he'd be okay
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:17 PM
Aug 2014

with you taking him into slavery, doing all the slavery work chores 'n stuff, picking a bit of cotton here and there for outdoor-activities (very healthy!) and call him a beloved son, ya know, like totally family-wise. Make him go to sleep at 11 p. m. and then wake him up at 4 a. m. Every frackin' day.

That'll be a great social experiment. I'm sure your son's friend would happily obey to be part of this enthralling exercise. I also guess that you never talked with your white son about race, but, since it's sooo obvious, had to ask his African-American friend all the questions, because, woohoo!

That's even worse. Your stand is idiotic. Don't get your brain overworked here.

Call Me Wesley

(38,187 posts)
188. Awwww,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:30 PM
Aug 2014

makes me really want to be a slave. Shelter, food, work (ya know, doing something that supports the community,) eating white cake at family dinners, being protected by my master if I'd be sick or hurt. Heaven.

It's a bit like 'Fifty Shades Of Grey,' I come to believe?

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
161. they were enslaved, not anything like family. They were imprisoned and denied freedom of choice
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:07 PM
Aug 2014

. . . movement, legal and other rights non-slaves took for granted, as a consequence of their slavery. Essentially prisoners of these people who held them; prisoners of the laws which allowed it to exist and persist.

You know nothing about the 'human condition.'

Delete this crap.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
190. The OP is proud of their thread. They are pro-slavery and gloating now.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:33 PM
Aug 2014

Epic jury fail imo.

mnhtnbb

(31,391 posts)
195. Go read the profile of the OP.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:45 PM
Aug 2014

I think this is not a real person, but a made up identity to come mess with DU.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
206. His latest OP was just locked by hosts
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:58 PM
Aug 2014
"To my fans:
All Americans should be taught to read"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025364737

I barely missed out on being able to post before the lock:

"That's like Sarah Palin saying all Americans should be taught to speak English good."

Darn! Missed it by thaaaat much.

Response to coljam (Original post)

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
196. The obvious flaw in that argument is what happened after they were freed.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:46 PM
Aug 2014

The "aunts", "uncles", "good servants", etc...walked away from slavery and/or demanded payment for their service whatever they're "titles"might be.

Read some of the slaveholders diaries and letters after the war and see how "shocked" they were by the "disloyalty" of Aunt Sarah or Uncle Hercules after Master and Mistress had been so kind to them.


 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
200. Anyone that knows what the middle passage is, knows the OP is full of it.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:52 PM
Aug 2014

Just basic history from JHS. The OP is purposely pretending to know history and then acts self-righteous when everyone on this forum points out how wrong they are.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
205. The argument is absurd on the face of it.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:58 PM
Aug 2014

Of course the slaves looked "happy" for Master. And, looked "sad" when he died. Despite the complaints of the whites that slaves were "stupid", they were smart enough to know that displeasing they're "kindly" masters could land them with more work, beatings, being sold "down the river" to the cane-fields in Louisiana, or, simply killed.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
208. Yes and to pretend the rest of us that do know history are wrong
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:00 PM
Aug 2014

is just simple trolling...like I said upthread.

BainsBane

(53,034 posts)
202. You learned wrong
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 03:55 PM
Aug 2014

Paternalism was an ideology that planters created to convince themselves that slavery was just. I suspect the Professor did not teach what you claim but rather you misunderstood her, very badly. She likely was talking about an argument by a historian named Eugene Genovese, and you mangled the thing until you came away believing the slaverholder's view of the institution of slavery.


In his best-known book, Roll, Jordan, Roll: The World the Slaves Made (1974), Genovese examined the society of the slaves. This book won the national Bancroft Prize in History. Genovese viewed the antebellum South as a closed and organically united paternalist society that exploited and attempted to dehumanize the slaves. Genovese paid close attention to the role of religion as a form of resistance in the daily life of the slaves, because slaves used it to claim a sense of humanity. He redefined resistance to slavery as all efforts by which slaves rejected their status as slaves, including their religion, music, and the culture they built, as well as work slowdowns, periodic disappearances, and escapes and open rebellions.

Genovese applied Antonio Gramsci's theory of cultural hegemony to the slave South. He placed paternalism at the center of the master-slave relationship. Both masters and slaves embraced paternalism, though for different reasons and with varying notions of what paternalism meant. For the slaveowners, paternalism allowed them to think of themselves as benevolent and to justify their appropriation of their slaves' labor. Paternalist ideology, they believed, also gave the institution of slavery a more benign face and helped deflate the increasingly strong abolitionist critique of the institution. Slaves, on the other hand, recognized that paternalist ideology could be twisted to suit their own ends, by providing them with improved living and working conditions. Slaves struggled mightily to convert the benevolent "gifts" or "privileges" bestowed upon them by their masters into customary rights which masters would not violate. The reciprocity of paternalism could work to the slaves' advantage by allowing them to demand more humane treatment from their masters. Religion was an important theme in Roll, Jordan, Roll and other studies. Genovese noted that Evangelicals recognized slavery as the root of Southern ills and sought some reforms, but from the early decades of the early nineteenth century, they abandoned arguing for abolition or substantial change of the system. Genovese's contention was that after 1830, southern Christianity became part of social control of the slaves. He also argued that the slaves' religion was not conducive to millenarianism or a revolutionary political tradition. Rather, it helped them survive and resist.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Genovese

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
212. In the movie you saw I'm sure you noticed
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:01 PM
Aug 2014

the different temperament of different masters. I think your professor soft-pedaled it.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
216. Anytime you find yourself writing "I don't condone slavery but..."
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:06 PM
Aug 2014

You should probably just stop right there.

roody

(10,849 posts)
224. Please do more research. You can find primary sources
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:16 PM
Aug 2014

from those who experienced it. The human condition is that evil.

NOLALady

(4,003 posts)
233. I don't know anything about Dr Fortune,
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:31 PM
Aug 2014

the black professor.

I only know about experiences that were handed down through my family and extended family. There were no positive stories handed down.

I would guess IF good slave owners existed, they were indeed the exception. Yet, I cannot fathom anyone who considered themselves to be a "good" person would enslave others.

mnhtnbb

(31,391 posts)
252. Must be some kind of record.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 04:46 PM
Aug 2014

I really wonder whether this guy is who he says he is, a made up identity, or just
someone with liberal leaning tendencies, but having issues with being able to think
through concepts.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
279. The South is just never gonna give up on this one, is it?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:33 PM
Aug 2014

I swear. Two hundred years from now there will be these people trying to claim that slaves had it better under slavery. And the Christians of Rome were warmer in the lions' stomachs.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
301. Don't put this asshat in the South.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:29 PM
Aug 2014

His profile says he is from Chicago.

Assholery and being a moron know no region.

Skittles

(153,164 posts)
282. I took an African American studies class taught by Tom Morello's mom
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:40 PM
Aug 2014

she sure didn't teach me that most of them had a swell time

Response to coljam (Original post)

MerryBlooms

(11,770 posts)
288. I can't believe this racist bullshit survived a jury.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 05:46 PM
Aug 2014

Disgusting.
I get there are some who think they can 'educate' trolls...
Derp.

Response to Tom Ripley (Reply #289)

stage left

(2,962 posts)
295. I cannot believe that this post was allowed to stand.
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:14 PM
Aug 2014

And I doubly can't believe that anybody recced it. Shameful!

Hekate

(90,708 posts)
303. This OP is nauseating and disingenuous to the point of trollery. No answer will "educate" the poster
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:33 PM
Aug 2014

Jesus Christ on a Trailer Hitch.

Cairycat

(1,706 posts)
312. My husband and son overheard a lot of comments like this OP
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 06:55 PM
Aug 2014

after seeing the movie, in the lobby and in the restroom. Wrong-headed though it is, this attitude is probably pretty common among an awful lot of (white) people. Minimizing something horrific is a natural human inclination, but it is wrong. Slavery was an abomination, and if it was less harsh for some than others, that doesn't make it any less horrible.

fujiyama

(15,185 posts)
316. "I do not believe that the human condition is evil"
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:06 PM
Aug 2014

You're either a tool, a troll, or just plain naive. I'm assuming the former two.

Go read a few fucking books. A little history wouldn't hurt. Then get back to everyone about "slaves treated like family". Where did you get this shit from? I heard this clap trap from the curator at the Confederate History Museum I once visited. And it's clear this "jury" system is a wreck. Why are we allowing slavery revisionism bullshit to stand on these forums? Maybe holocaust denial is next? Maybe the Jews weren't treated all that bad after all, eh?

I really need to get the hell away from this site. It is eating away too much of the little precious free time I have.

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
318. In the author's note to one of Barbara Hambly's Benjamin January novels
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:11 PM
Aug 2014

Hambly notes that the awful thing about slavery was that you were totally at the mercy of your master.

He might be relatively kind or a brute, but if he was a brute, there was nothing you could do about it. You were property, and the law was on his side, no matter what he did to you: torture, rape, mutilation. It was all OK. One doctor practiced surgical techniques on his slaves--before the days of anesthesia. There was nothing they could do about it.

If he wanted to sell you away from your family, there was nothing you could do about it.

If he wanted to sell you to anyone, there was nothing you could do about it.

No matter how hard you worked, it was almost certain that you would always be a slave. Worse still, since slavery lasted nearly over 250 years (i.e. slavery was legal for more years than it has been illegal), you worked with the knowledge that your children and grandchildren would be slaves, too.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
322. You do not believe that the human condition is that evil?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:46 PM
Aug 2014

Well you are hopelessly naive.

What don't you understand about being owned and being subject to any and every whim by your owner?

Sexual abuse and rape was common by slave owners.

Maybe you don't consider that mistreatment. Maybe the master was kindly passing on some superior genetic material.

I think you might want to reconsider DU. Maybe it isn't the place for you.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
323. Anyone who sees slavery as anything other than a hideous abomination
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 07:51 PM
Aug 2014

is demonstrating, at best, breathtaking, oblivious and offensive ignorance. I do think that the lack of a jury hide of the OP may have been a good thing, in this case, if it allowed the OP to be educated of this.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
325. Is this your professor, here? Dr. Gwen Fortune. Can you please name at least one of her suggested
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:00 PM
Aug 2014

readings she required for the class that would support what you're claiming she taught, which
was: I learned that for the most part the slaves were not mistreated...

Fortune, Dr. Gwendoliney (Gwen Y Fortune)

Writer, educator. Personal: Born in Houston, TX; daughter of W Hermon Young and Mittie McCain; divorced; children: Frederic, Phillip & Roger. Educ: JC Smith Univ, BS, 1948; SC State Col, MS, 1951; Roosevelt Univ, MPh, 1972; Nova Univ, EdD, 1979. Career: Chicago Pub Schs, teacher, 1954-66; Dist 68 Skokie Ill, team coord, 1964-70; Oakton Community Col, prof ethnic studies coord, 1970-84; Consultant “Discovery”, dir 1984-; poems & articles: “Dancing as Fast as We Can”; “Inner Scan”; Novels: Growing Up Nigger Rich, 2002; Family Lines, 2003. …

http://www.encyclopedia.com/article-1G2-2509906214/fortune-dr-gwendoliney-gwen.html

I am very curious about academic teaching that would promote such a thing, if in fact that
was her objective.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
330. Slavery is so cool! I hereby volunteer you!
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 08:22 PM
Aug 2014

Don't thank me--it's my pleasure, I assure you!©

(Copyright pinboy Seuss, 2014.)

slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
352. OMG, now I know why this has so few recs, it was actually much worse for many people ...
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 09:48 PM
Aug 2014

than the film portrayed ... just stirring shit up I presume. Good luck in life.





1monster

(11,012 posts)
366. You might want to read The Intesting Narrative of the Lif of
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 12:42 AM
Aug 2014

Olaudah Equiano... The link to the entire book is below.

I don't know what college course you took, but either it was seriously lacking, or you just didn't put into the necessary effort to learn how things really were.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15399/15399-h/15399-h.htm


THE INTERESTING NARRATIVE OF THE LIFE OF OLAUDAH EQUIANO, OR GUSTAVUS VASSA, THE AFRICAN. WRITTEN BY HIMSELF.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
372. MIR Team (Skinner) banned coljam
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 09:10 AM
Aug 2014

MIR Team (Skinner) banned coljam
Reason:
Slavery apologist, nazi apologist, troll.

http://www.democraticunderground.com?com=profile&uid=215393&sub=trans

Real name:
DU Member for: 6 years, 5 months, 23 days
Posts: 188
Recommendations: 5
Star member: No

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
376. Yay
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 09:45 AM
Aug 2014

Left his account quiet but active and knew to wait until he had a few posts under his belt before he went too far.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
404. if they want to recommend it, they can take the heat for recommending crap
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 01:07 PM
Aug 2014

the heat that rightly goes with us taking the recommendation at face value.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
381. What's evil
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 10:03 AM
Aug 2014

is to believe that slavery can be excused in any way.

In any system of slavery, some slaves will be treated better than others. That's not "family." That's property. Treating other humans as property is evil.

As to "the human condition?" Humans have shown themselves, over and over and over, to be an aggressive, self-destructive species. The number of atrocities humans have committed upon other humans throughout history and to the present day across the globe are legion.

That's the whole battle: will we focus on our capacity for empathy and evolve into a more enlightened species, or will we continue to feed our propensity for aggression, competition, and violence?

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
397. what I've read in the past....
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 12:31 PM
Aug 2014

is some DUers rec for "discussion value". Personally, I don't do that. If an OP sucks, I don't rec it.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
423. I think you should start an entirely new OP, would have been locked on DU2, but hey...
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:44 PM
Aug 2014

What the hell, right?

We've done away with the poster, but we don't have a problem with the four members who recommended.

Do you have a problem with them?


I am prevented from speaking further about this set of behaviors.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
425. If the recommenders agree with the OP, yes I have a problem with that
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:33 PM
Aug 2014

shouldn't you?

i'd like to remind you that you're giving me a harder time when you didn't make a peep about the person who made the statement and other similar statements on DU.

so perhaps it's you that has a problem with me.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
426. Well, I finally found the post that prompted your poll, yay. I heading down to the pool.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:42 PM
Aug 2014

If you want to join me, head due West until you hit the ocean, then South for some distance.

I already had some pool time, after about twenty minutes in the ocean. Shit, it's cold but I guess it always was! Nice to have it right outside but also nice to have a heated pool to warm up in, post-ocean swim!

Come on over, call ahead, I'll let you in!

As I type this I see the last bits of color over the ocean, there were dolphins this morning, and particularly close in!

Whales have been sighted of late, but I'm just happy for the view-- that lasts all day and night!

And the waves crashing--- Oddly enough, last night I thought the sounds might be trees breaking or something else, I was concerned, it takes some getting used to!

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
429. Ocean's actually several degrees warmer than normal this summer
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:53 PM
Aug 2014

you're lucky not to need a wetsuit this summer, so enjoy it, it's a rarity to have ocean temperatures in the 60's this time of year.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
430. I fully agree. It must be that as we age, it feels colder, but I'm undeterred!
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:06 AM
Aug 2014

Dolphins. I've been coming here and to other points along the coast from Arena Point to Cambria to Pismo, and never have seen daily dolphins!

And, almost better but less reliable, the sound of seals barking, arf arf!

Thanks, CD. I mean it.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
392. why are you posting bullshit that slaves were treated well?
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 12:21 PM
Aug 2014

and why are four DUers recommending such bullshit?

Mr Dixon

(1,185 posts)
402. AYFKM
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 12:55 PM
Aug 2014

No slavery was all sing a longs and rainbows, to include the kind treatment of Indians you know more rainbows and equity.

SMH

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
405. liar...there is no African american professor
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 03:44 PM
Aug 2014

Who would tell you such utter fucking whitewashed nonsense. How many of your 'family members' do you own? How many have you breed and sold? Family my ass.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
406. you need education
Mon Aug 11, 2014, 03:49 PM
Aug 2014

Read some slave narratives. Read anything. Clearly you are not well-informed about american history or the slave trade. Like many Americans. It is shameful...this rampant, self-serving ignorance.

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
417. "Aunt" and "Uncle" were not terms of respect
Tue Aug 12, 2014, 08:39 PM
Aug 2014

It was against custom to refer to an African-American as "Mr." or "Mrs." or "Miss," because those were titles reserved for white folk.

In the pre-civil rights era South, newspapers would refer to black people as ANYTHING but those titles: Farmer Jones, Preacher Brown, Mammy Smith. if the person was older, then it was "Aunt Jemima Johnson" or "Uncle Ben Wilson."

I've noticed, at least among older African-American entertainers, if they introduce another African-American on TV, it's always with a title: Mr. James Earl Jones or Miss Oprah Winfrey. White entertainers introducing the next guess rarely do this.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
420. LOL. I was tempted to vote in the poll....
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:12 PM
Aug 2014

I chose not to. For my participation in discussion I was accused of several things.

Not surprising, right?

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
422. I think it's a sad waste of energy. Slavery exists today in different forms.
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:23 PM
Aug 2014

Human trafficking, domestic servitude, prostitution, child abuse.

To member's oversimplification of the concept to a binary poll is actually an insult to the intellect.

But it's funny, sometimes in nature we have to look at all organisms, bacteria, parasites, pests, decomposers and the rest as all are great indicators of the health of the ecosystem.

So we have that!

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
427. this was your first post in that thread
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:43 PM
Aug 2014

seems like you posted an accusation before anyone said a word to you there.

but in this thread and in mine your problem is not with coljam's OP, it's with me.

priorities. maybe if we had more coljams and less me's you'd be happier here.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
428. you really pay a lot of attention to this stuff, see my last post to you, lets go swimmin!
Wed Aug 13, 2014, 11:46 PM
Aug 2014

Seriously, less than an hour away from you!

akbacchus_BC

(5,704 posts)
431. You kidding, right! Slaves were treated humanely.
Thu Aug 14, 2014, 12:29 AM
Aug 2014

Who allowed you to register on here or are you ten years old?

First of all, they were not slaves, they were people and had a homeland but due to greed, people from that Coast were abducted into slavery to pick cotton. You ever tried to read the history of slavery? guess not and you come here with your bullshit lecture. Please just go away! Read first and tell me what you know about gibbetting a slave, bet you have no idea!

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