Attacks On Civilian Jets Typically ‘Human Error, Overreaction’

[Purveyor]

By BOB KING and ADAM SNIDER | 7/17/14 5:02 PM EDT Updated: 7/17/14 5:17 PM EDT

Thursday’s deadly crash of a Malaysia Airlines jet in Ukraine wouldn’t be the first time a military attack has downed a packed passenger jet, if early reports about a possible missile strike prove true.

The Soviet Union and the U.S. each were responsible for similarly deadly attacks in the 1980s. In September 1983, a Soviet fighter shot down a Korean airliner that had wandered into the USSR’s airspace, killing 269 people including Rep. Larry McDonald (D-Ga.). In 1988, the American military cruiser USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger jet in the Persian Gulf, killing 290 people in what the U.S. called a case of mistaken identity.

In 2001, a Ukrainian missile accidentally shot down a Russian airliner over the Black Sea, killing 78 people.

If such episodes have a central theme, it’s “human error and overreaction,” said Bob van der Linden, an aviation historian who chairs the aeronautics unit at the Smithsonian Institution’s National Air and Space Museum. “It’s usually someone overreacting or just making a mistake.”

And typically, such incidents haven’t brought lasting repercussions. It took eight years for the U.S. to agree to pay $61.8 million to the families of the Iranian victims of the Vincennes’ attack, for instance.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/civilian-airplane-attacks-human-error-109064.html#ixzz37lNNiAVO

[geek tragedy]

1. this one will have lasting repercussions.

this is the first time we have of a non-state shooting down a plane.

States get to apologize. non-states who do this get liquidated.

This will also mean much harsher sanctions on Russia than were in place previously.

[Purveyor]

2. I'll wait for definitive proof it was 'shot down' and by whom. eom

[geek tragedy]

4. Go ahead and hold your breath while Moscow gets to the bottom

of this, after all their stooges stole the blackbox and gave it to Mother Russia.

[TBF]

6. FFS. nt

[geek tragedy]

8. there's really not any doubt at this point

the plane was shot down out of the sky.

the terrorists bragged about shooting down a plane with a missile, and US intelligence has confirmed there was both a radar lock and a missile strike on the aircraft.

[TBF]

11. Where are your links for this information -

and please supply sources NOT owned by Rupert Murdoch or RT. I think both are equally filled with propaganda.

[geek tragedy]

12. for starters

http://mashable.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-russia-rebel/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link

KIEV, Ukraine — As news broke of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 being downed in eastern Ukraine, the separatist’s shadowy commander with a pencil mustache issued a dark warning on social media.
Through his VK.com account, Russia’s version of Facebook, the self-proclaimed defense minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Igor Girkin — who goes by the nom de guerre Igor Strelkov — boasted about shooting down a plane.

"We did warn you — do not fly in our sky," he wrote.

Thinking it was a Ukrainian transport plane, Strelkov added that “a plane has just been downed somewhere around Torez, it lays there behind the 'Progress' mine,” referring to the mining town of some 80,000 people.

“And here is the video proving another 'bird' falling down,” he continued. “The bird went down behind a slagheap, not in a residential district. So no peaceful people were injured,” Strelkov wrote, adding that there is also information about a Ukrainian military plane shot down.

However, Strelkov deleted the post when he found out it was actually a commercial jetliner carrying 295 innocent people — not a military aircraft.

screenshots are all over the internet

[TBF]

13. "Mashable" - I ask for sources and you give me Facebook screen shots?

This is worse than I thought.

[geek tragedy]

14. the story is about a posting on the rebels' social media site.

I suggest you read up on the day's events, you're way, way behind the rest of us.

Strelkin bragged about shooting it down
US intelligence sez one radar lock on and major heat signature near the plane right when it went down

rebels shot down several planes this week, no one else is shooting down planes in the area

etc etc

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025253748

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025253860

[TBF]

15. How do you know what I've been reading -

perhaps I'm simply not interpreting the news the way you are.

Al Jazeera is saying that everyone denies involvement (story updated just an hour ago): http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/17/ukraine-malaysianplane.html

I don't see what Russia gets by doing this. How do they benefit?

More likely Ukraine government or rebel forces in that area ...

[geek tragedy]

16. because you're asking for links of stories that have

been all over the place.

Here's some good old fashioned common sense for you:

Side A has all the airplanes and hasn't shot any airplanes down,

Side B has no airplanes and has been the only one to shoot airplanes down

go ahead and tell the class which side was more likely to have shot down an airplane flying over territory controlled by Side B.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

5. Terrorists shot down two Rhodesian passenger planes in 78 and 79

Air Rhodesia Flights 825 and 827. There were survivors of the shoot-down of 825 who were subsequently murdered by ZIPRA terrorists.

[geek tragedy]

7. Karma was not kind to ZIPRA and its people.

Ironically, at the hand of Mugabe.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

9. There were no good guys in the Bush War

Smith, Mugabe and Nkomo were all insane and none of them legitimate leaders of their respective groups.

[geek tragedy]

10. and somehow a really horrible situation managed

to get worse for decades on end.

let's hope this gets resolved differently

[uppityperson]

3. I've made errors, over reacted yet have never shot down a passenger jet.

I am not living up to my potential

[JHB]

17. That was (yet) another low for Reagan and conservatives

Conservative talk was rife with claims that the Iranians faked the crash, that they put all the bodies out in the Persian Gulf just to make America look bad after foiling an attack on the Vincennes. (So in case you're wondering, they've always had this knee-jerk nuttiness.)

Reagan could have done the right thing, admit a terrible, tragic error, even apologize to the people of Iran (people, not government), and expedite compensation for victims' families.

Instead, Reagan played to the foaming conspiracy-spewers, and strung them along with vague statements that implied it was possible they were right. And kept it up long, long after anyone with an ounce of sense could tell that the "faked it" claim was double-threadbare horseshit.

[Purveyor]

18. Fear not, they and some of 'ours' will be just as creative in placing the blame

for this one.