Internet sleuths nailed Malaysian MH17 as a missile attack hours before anyone else...

[ReverendDeuce]

This is fascinating stuff... While CNN was prattling on about "this doesn't fit a missile strike", the Internet sleuths actually had this one completely wrapped up. I've been watching Reddit all day, and so far they are 100% with the course of events.

1. Terrorists from DNR possess BUK (nato SA-11 Gadfly) SAM-missile complex (as reported by Russian media):

"DNR militia took control over military air defence facility № А-1402 with SAM rocket complex BUK"
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1287030 29 june 2014

"Donetsk air is protected by SAM BUK"
http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1741703

"Flash: clean sky above donetsk - spetsnaz DNR captured military air defence base and captured BUK S.A.M." http://rusvesna.su/news/1404041521

2. Self-claimed confirmation of Strelkov-Girkin DNR terrorists leader today, 17.07.2014. Place and time perfectly matches boeing crash site. Screenshot (was erased from their group later):


Girkin claims that they hit AN-24 Ukrainian supply ship you can see clearly, that they attached videos from Boeing crash site there. Early 17th of July, Life News confirmed this as well: http://lifenews.ru/news/136801

See the videos:

3. Kurginyan revelations. He approved that pro-Russian DNR terrorists possess BUK:

4. Tweets from local citizens (hours before the tragedy!):
https://twitter.com/MOR2537/status/489709431467171841
https://twitter.com/WowihaY/status/489698009148837888
:large

5. Historical context.

For a few days before the Boeing tragedy, Ukraine officials stated that DNR terrorists now possess new SAM weapon, capable of hitting vessels at high altitudes:
http://censor.net.ua/news/294220/v_snbo_zayavlyayut_chto_u_terroristov_est_voennaya_tehnika_sposobnaya_sbivat_samolety_na_bolshih_vysotah

6. First video of BUK from DNR urgently leaving the crime scene:

http://censor.net.ua/video_news/294260/v_seti_poyavilis_kadry_gde_vidno_kak_kompleks_buk_pokidaet_mesto_prestupleniya_video

7. Ukrainian security service on their official channel intercepted terrorist Bezler phone which confirms Boeing hit:

Translation:

0:20: A: Just now, just now, "Minera" group downed an airplane. It fell on Yenakivo.
0:26: B: Pilots? Where are the pilots?
0:29: A: We're going now to search and take photos of the wreckage.
0:33: B: How long ago?
0:34: A: About 30 minutes.
[At this point, video skips ahead to a different conversation, apparently some time later and between two different people]
0:44: C: Yes, "Major"
0:45: D: From Chernuhino, they downed the plane.
0:48: C: Who?
0:49: C: From Chernuhino post, cossacks that are stationed at Chernukino.
0:56: C: The plane broke up in mid-air, near Petropavlosk mine. First 200 (ed: ?). Found first 200 (ed: ?). Civilian.
1:12: D: So what's going on?
1:15: C: Stupid civilian plane.
1:18: D: Understood. Are there many people?
1:20: C: FUBAR. Wreckage falling right in peoples yards.
1:24: D: What model?
1:26: C: I haven't figured it out yet. Haven't yet gotten to the main debris. I'm still where the first bodies fell.
1:31: C: There's wreckage of internal containers, seats, bodies.
1:35: D: Understood. Are there any weapons?
1:37: C: Nothing at all. Civilian stuff, medical supplies, towels, toilet paper.
1:43: D: Any documents?
1:45: C: Yes. Indonesian student. From Thompson university.
[Another cut, several more people]
1:52: About that plane shot down near Snezhnovo Torez. It turned out to be a passenger plane. Fell near Grabovo, there's lots of bodies, women and children. Right now the cossacks are inspecting it.
2:03: On TV they are saying AN-26, Ukrainian transport, but are saying it's labeled Malaysian Airlines.
2:12: What was it doing in Ukrainian territory?
2:16: Maybe it was transporting spies. Who knows. It's war.

[Uncle Joe]

1. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, ReverendDeuce.

[GeorgeGist]

2. Do you think it's better than their Boston Marathon Bomber investigation?

[ReverendDeuce]

3. Yeah, that was terrible...

This one has videos and intercepted phone calls.

Plus, the pro-Russian separatists bragged about it on Facebook and Twitter then scrubbed it all when they realized what they had done. LOL!

[JI7]

4. it's not that simple, people on the internet don't have to worry about credibility, news orgs most

likely have similar info but they can't (or at least shouldn't) just report it based on wanting to be the first one to do it.

remember CNN spouting all the shit that the internet people were going on about during Boston bombing ?

MSNBC did really well then. they were never the first, but they were accurate .

just look at today with MSNBC getting that howard Stern person on air .

[ReverendDeuce]

6. I get it, my aim was more at those who ALWAYS roll their eyes about Internet sleuthing... n/t

n/t

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

7. Bwahahahah.

I'm guessing you haven't watched the news for the last decade or so? News orgs gave up on trying to maintain credibility a long time ago.

[JI7]

9. that's why i said "should"

[Capt. Obvious]

37. News orgs worried about credibility?

LOL!

[GusBob]

5. big time kick and rec

FUBAR IS RIGHT YOU COSSACK FUCKERS

[WillyT]

8. K & R !!!

[littlemissmartypants]

10. Internet sleuthing rocks.

Thanks for your post. Love, Peace and Shelter.

[reorg]

11. about your vocabulary

Here is a short video from a rally of the "terrorists" in Donetsk:

so you can take a look before drones are sent in to destroy them.

While prattling on about the acumen of "internet sleuths", you cite three official Russian sources. I hate to break it to you, but had I posted these articles in LBN they'd have been deleted immediately due to their origin, deemed unreliable on this here internet sleuth territory.

Then you proceed to post some YouTube videos and Twitter messages that don't appear to prove anything, and conclude with something that was posted by the Kyiv Post and may or may not be authentic.

So, if we take your apparent conclusion, that militants of the "Donetsk People's Republic" may have made an error and caused this horrible accident when they attempted to shoot down a military supply plane - what does this prove, what exactly did the sleuths get nailed?

What should have been known all along, and for this you didn't need Internet sleuths, Russian news agencies or even CNN: that fighting was going on in this area, that planes had already been shot down and that it was highly irresponsible for airlines not divert their planes in order to protect their passengers and crews. I don't get this. They flew in a straight line right over a war area:

[ReverendDeuce]

17. I have a feeling that someone is mad they didn't post it first...

Just sayin'.

[reorg]

24. huh? n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. 'Hours'? No.

Here's the timeline used in the OP for the DU LBN thread on this - all times are BST, ie GMT+1, or EDT-5, so 16:15 is 11:15 Washington DC time:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html

16.15 Interfax news agency are claiming that a Malaysian passenger plane has crashed in Ukraine, near the Russian border.
...
16.34 Interfax are saying that the plane was shot down.
...
16.50 Reports suggest that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile called a BUK.

Colin Freeman explains:

The BUK is a self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missile systems in the Soviet era and designed to engage cruise missiles, smart bombs, aircraf and and unmanned aerial vehicles. Modern versions can reach up to 80,000 feet.

So a mainstream media source was talking about the BUK system by 11:50 East Coast time.

[ReverendDeuce]

16. CNN was still refusing to say "shot down" until early afternoon...

Others were saying "supposedly" but with armies of paid guests citing the separatists denials.

Meanwhile, the Internet caught them completely red handed within an hour or two, fetching their tweets from the depths, their Facebook posts, etc.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. You appear to be confusing CNN with 'anyone other than internet "sleuths"'

People saying "supposedly" could be people acknowledging that things weren't certain. Internet 'sleuths' don't have to do that; they can just repeat what the media is saying without the qualifications.

"the Internet caught them completely red handed within an hour or two"? Caught who 'red-handed'? The rebels? As we've seen, the mainstream media was talking about the 'Bok' system within half an hour of the initial reports. An hour or two would indicate "the internet" was just repeated the general media analysis.

[pinboy3niner]

29. Thanks. And CNN definitely was reporting a lot of this stuff very early on.

CNN aired early reports that a BOK system was seen in the area before the shootdown; claims of Ukrainian officials that the plane had been shot down; and the claim by a self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk official around the time the plane was lost that their forces had just shot down a Ukrainian military plane. All of those things were reported very early by CNN.

CNN aired various shootdown reports without confirming that that was the case because there was no confirmation for a long time. Malaysia Airlines wasn't even acknowledging a crash for a long time--confirming only that they had "lost contact" with the aircraft.

[countryjake]

13. I'll just add this link to the Google Cache of that Strelkov Tweet

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256

And the translation:

Report from Strelkov, Igor' Ivanovich ("Commendant" of rebel forces based in Donets'k)
17 JUL 2014 17:50. Communique from the insurgency.


In the Torez region we (or "they&quot just shot down an An-26 plane, it's someplace past the "Progress" mine.
We (or "they&quot warned them not to fly in "our sky."
And here's video confirmation about the next "bird fall".
The bird fell behind a pit heap, residential area wasn't struck.
Civilians did not suffer.

And there is also information about a second downed plane, probably an Su."

Thanks for thread, ReverendDeuce.

[Agschmid]

15. It was interesting to watch how everything happened online.

Social media "nailed it"... There was a Nova episode about this recently and the Boston bombing. I think social media will continue to have an impact on how stories evolve.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. If you remember, social media was also spreading many false rumours as facts, for Boston

It was a feeding frenzy of conjecture and misinformation.

[Agschmid]

23. Absolutely, the Nova episode addresses that...

And to this day I still have the photo of the guy in the blue track suit in my mind, turned out he had nothing to do with it. But think about the availability of images, and video to help track down the real perpetrators.

In this case reddit was "correct" most of the day.

[freshwest]

18. WOW! It's all over LBN and national media! Thanks for showing us the background!

[ReverendDeuce]

21. I have been impressed by Erin Burnett tonight...

She actually has covered all the bases without throwing in the bullshit "other side" for a fake sense of "balance". Even RT is having a hard time whitewashing this. This has got to be rattling Putin big time!

[freshwest]

30. Where's Sarah Palin on this? We already heard from Bomb, bomb, bomb McCain. This is so horrible...

Now people see just how bad it is over there. I'm referring your thread to others so people can get these details. Thanks for posting this. As far as Puting goes, this is scarcely the triumph that he expected, I'm guessing. I believe Russia has denied any wrongdoing so far. It's a fine line there, but this won't be forgotten any time soon.

[SidDithers]

20. DU rec...

Very convincing.

Sid

[rhett o rick]

25. Help me out here. When the Russians reported that the Ukrainians shot the

plane down, the anti-Conspiracy Theory Posse were quick to alert both against the SOP and CS, and they got a hide. Now when the speculation is that it was Russian sympathizers that shot the plan down, the anti-Conspiracy Theory Posse are silent?

I assume there is an explanation.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. The separatists claimed to shoot down a Ukrainian cargo plane today at that location

As reported by Russian media:

Donetsk People’s Republic militia downs another Ukraine’s An-26 plane — eyewitnesses

DONETSK, July 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Militiamen of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) brought down a military transport Antonov-26 (An-26) plane of the Ukrainian Air Force on the outskirts of the town of Torez, eyewitnesses said.

A missile hit the An-26, it fell on the ground and caught blaze, they said.

On July 14, militiamen of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic downed another An-26 of the Ukrainian Air Force.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741164

So the only 'theory' needed here is that some 'militiamen' mistook the civilian plane for a military one. They have so far not produced any An-26 wreckage as far as I know, which lends a lot of weight to the theory that the only plane they shot down at Torez today was the Malaysian airliner, which has definitely been found there.

[rhett o rick]

27. I dont have a bias in this fight but when a Russian source said that Ukrainians shot down a plane

about the same time as a plane carrying Putin was flying over. The anit-CT Posse was all over it claiming the Russian source was suspect. Aren't we basing this story on a Russian source?

[JI7]

32. there is more evidence on one side than the other

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. Claims about your own side are more credible than ones about your opponents

As far as I'm aware, someone (Russians?) said it could have been Ukrainians who wanted to shoot down Putin. It was just a suggestion of a motive, rather than any claim that the Ukrainians had said they had shot down any plane, or that there was any evidence that the Ukrainians had shot down a plane (and the Russian government itself then said Putin hadn't overflown Ukraine in months). The source was just speculating without evidence (of, say, Putin's plane being in the area), trying to put their opponents in a bad light.

This, however, is a Russian news source reporting, as fact, a claim by the local militiamen that they had shot down a Ukrainian aircraft. Reporting a claim like that, from people you are sympathetic to, has a lot more credibility.

[rhett o rick]

36. My point is that it seems that some here believe Russian news sources when it suits them and try

to hide/lock OP's based on Russian news sources when it suits them.

The last I heard, who actually shot the plane down is still speculation. There might be more evidence on one side, but my complaint is the attempts to stifle opposing views instead of arguing against them.

This is intended to be a liberal message board and locking/hiding of stories because someone doesn't like the source is wrong. Let us decide for ourselves. These comments are not aimed at you but those that think they need to save us from the potential damage of reading a different perspective.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. You use the same sloppy tactics. People take issue with Russia Today in specific, you rephrase that

as 'Russian news sources'. Then you argue that point, which you made up. Russia Today is government owned and run propaganda. Not all Russian journalism is RT, which is not made for Russians, but for consumption in other countries. RT is not 'Russian Media' in that Russians do not watch it.

[rhett o rick]

42. Some would argue that Tass News Agency is Russian propaganda.

Those that are so quick to lock and hide OP's, seem to do so in a manner that promotes their own world view. I like to make up my own mind. By the way, CNN is a propaganda tool IMO.

[zappaman]

43. But no one would argue that RT is just a mouthpiece for Putin.

Or would you argue that, Rick?

[rhett o rick]

44. "But no one would argue that RT is just a mouthpiece for Putin." Really? No one??

Are you speaking for everyone?

I don't like someone deciding what articles from what news sources I can or can not read. This is a politically liberal message board and I think we can handle reading articles from RT. If you don't like it, trash it.

[zappaman]

45. Do you disagree?

Do you NOT think RT is a mouthpiece for Putin?
If so, why not?
I am speaking for the reality-based community.
You?

[rhett o rick]

46. The very fact that you think you speak for the "reality based community" proves you know

little about reality, especially the liberal version of reality. I don't like censorship, especially when used to push a certain POV.

[zappaman]

47. Bwhahaha.

Censorship.
Yeah right.
Try again, Rick.

[zappaman]

28. Help me out here

Where in the links does it say "Was President Putin's plane the intended target over eastern Ukraine?"

Big difference.
And it was a jury hide.
So I guess the jury was stacked with "the anti-Conspiracy Theory Posse"?
How do you think they managed to stack the jury, Rick?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025252653

[rhett o rick]

31. LOL. You can't be series. Why was it alerted on? Why was it more conspiratorial than

this OP?

[ReverendDeuce]

34. There is no conspiracy. This is what happened!

There's no conspiracy to report on. This is all fact based. I saw the rebel's tweet before it was scrubbed. They were bragging about it then realized they fucked up and went into panic clean-up mode.

The Putin sympathizers are out of control! This is DU, not Infowars for crying out loud...

[rhett o rick]

35. It's never a conspiracy when it favors your world view.

Sorry but I am skeptical of any propaganda that looks like it's pushing war. The Neocons won't be happy until we are at war with Russia.

[Bobbie Jo]

40. Help me out here too....

Is the "anti-Conspiracy Theory Posse" an extension of "The Group," or are they totally unrelated?

[zappaman]

41. At least GD hosting will be somewhat improved in the next few days!

[cbdo2007]

38. Lol - CNN speculates like web users, everyone gets mad, CNN waits to confirm, everyone is still mad