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redqueen

(115,103 posts)
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:02 PM Feb 2014

Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue : 50 Years of Women's Objectification

Sports Illustrated will be celebrating 50 years of its annual Swimsuit Issue and I think we can all agree now that it is one of the most blatant exemples of women’s objectification in mainstream media.

Over the years, the models on the covers have been wearing less and less fabric ; it’s not even trying to pretend it’s about fashion anymore. It already had nothing to do in a sports’ magazine aimed at men in the first place, now it’s barely feeding off the momentum of each year release and the so-called making of new supermodels.

The very treatment of the women’s image is terrible. The first covers and spreads in the 60s and 70s had a great focus on the landscape and featured some actual fashion. Now the shots are way more focused on the models, which are nearly naked and are featured taking off what is left on their body. We hear all the time how Tyra Banks was the first Black woman to make the cover of the Swimsuit Issue ; well guess what ? She is the only one to date, apart from Beyoncé who appeared on the 2006 covers. And no Asian, no South-Asian, no Native.

Also what’s up with shooting a model in fucking Antarctica ? Kate Upton has commented on how the shoot was horribly hard; she said she experienced eyesight and hearing lost afterwards because her body was freaking shutting down. Worse, the results were so underwhelming : it looked like it was shot in front of a green screen. Not even worth almost killing a model. Oops.

...


http://www.ixdaily.com/drop-your-skirt/sports-illustrated-swimsuit-issue-50-years-womens-objectification


Just thought the other (progressive) side of this issue deserved an OP of its own.

And I fully expect for one of the usual suspects to start posting pics in here to antagonize feminists, so if you do, don't think you're being original or clever. Using images depicting objectification to harass feminists isn't new or intelligent.
260 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue : 50 Years of Women's Objectification (Original Post) redqueen Feb 2014 OP
I never understood the point of the SI swimsuit issue. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #1
As was explained to me last night Scootaloo Feb 2014 #9
no sports ? how about the olympics ? JI7 Feb 2014 #13
Um.. Yeh.. Because the olympics happen every year, right? opiate69 Feb 2014 #35
it happened this year JI7 Feb 2014 #36
And, SI is covering them as well... opiate69 Feb 2014 #43
are you having trouble following the conversation ? JI7 Feb 2014 #47
Yes.. And.. It may seem complicated, but I think you can follow... opiate69 Feb 2014 #56
none of the 4 majors had anything in February -- except the NBA and the NHL fishwax Feb 2014 #236
Are you twelve? MattBaggins Feb 2014 #194
Where do we NOT hear about the Olympics? It is everywhere...I hear a lot about it on my CTyankee Feb 2014 #45
back in the day many seasons were shorter than they are now dsc Feb 2014 #31
My understanding of sports may be limited... Scootaloo Feb 2014 #38
How could there possibly be no sports to report on? Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #39
I know, right? Scootaloo Feb 2014 #42
then, that doesn't really explain it, does it? CTyankee Feb 2014 #41
No sports to cover?? Here is the list of ultrarunning events 1/1/2014 to 2/16/2014... DreamGypsy Feb 2014 #148
Oh, I know Scootaloo Feb 2014 #153
I figured that out... DreamGypsy Feb 2014 #159
I'm not a sports person! Scootaloo Feb 2014 #165
More like if it does not have a ball it is not a sport Drahthaardogs Feb 2014 #175
Somehow I think coverage of ultrarunning would sell fewer magazines than bikini-clad Doctor_J Feb 2014 #176
Sports people care about... Lost_Count Feb 2014 #201
Someone asked the same question last night. redqueen Feb 2014 #15
I understand both your points and LeftymMom's points in that subthread. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #44
I understood the point when I was 14.... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #27
I guess Playgirl objectifies the men yeoman6987 Feb 2014 #40
Well, yes. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #85
Playgirl's subscribers are mostly men, though. redqueen Feb 2014 #88
This man wouldn't mind subscribing to it. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #89
Well at least somebody does, for once treestar Feb 2014 #208
but some men do think women are sport... Whisp Feb 2014 #81
Ugh. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #86
Wow. You just said a mouthful, woman. redqueen Feb 2014 #87
And visa versa AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #128
No, there is not a vice versa. n/t Whisp Feb 2014 #133
OF course not AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #137
false equivalence noiretextatique Feb 2014 #232
Right AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #233
Cash. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2014 #119
It was used as a big subscription driver pre-internet.` Renew Deal Feb 2014 #130
when this started 50 years ago there wasn't between the end of football (around Jan 1) Doctor_J Feb 2014 #163
except for the NBA, the NHL, college basketball ... and, for the record, the Super Bowl was fishwax Feb 2014 #237
It's pretty simple AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #177
make that, Sex as defined by the white, straight men that fill the boardrooms. BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #242
It is about the coming of Spring and Summer after a hard Winter. I understood that as bluestate10 Feb 2014 #181
it's porn-lite, that's all. nt TheFrenchRazor Feb 2014 #243
How wonderful it would be if that cover of models would, instead, feature some of our incredible hlthe2b Feb 2014 #2
Yes, that would be a sign of progress. redqueen Feb 2014 #3
This is the power and strength of a woman athelete. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #50
To be fair, when they (occasionally) show female athletes on the cover, redqueen Feb 2014 #53
Thank you me b zola Feb 2014 #8
How wonderful it would be if I was a multimillionnaire cosmicone Feb 2014 #195
rude.... hlthe2b Feb 2014 #199
See? The problem isn't that the issue is flame bait, it's that you want to pick which flames to bait lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #4
That's not a great argument Scootaloo Feb 2014 #12
I suspect that Kate Upton's definition of "damn near died!" isn't the same as mine. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #16
she was suffering eyesight and hearing loss and her body was shutting down, that is beyond just JI7 Feb 2014 #21
I'd like to see a doctor's note to that effect. n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #24
why ? JI7 Feb 2014 #25
The rest of the Today show quote might be illuminating. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #29
how does any of that change anything ? i'm sure china sweatshop workers are happy to get what they JI7 Feb 2014 #32
"The 21 year old model has an estimated net worth of $4 million" lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #62
once again that does not change anything, you seem resentful of the money she has JI7 Feb 2014 #66
Envy? The class warfare card? Seriously? lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #68
why ? when you consider where she was why is it so hard to believe ? JI7 Feb 2014 #70
Because common sense. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #71
Oh my god.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2014 #78
Oh yeah, I'm sure she's just being hysterical; you know how women can be! Scootaloo Feb 2014 #33
I've had hypothermia. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #48
I suspect your suspicions are based more on the inconveniance this causes for your position Scootaloo Feb 2014 #73
My position? lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #76
Your position that she's a liar about the impact that shoot had on her health Scootaloo Feb 2014 #93
Thank you - nice reply n/t drmeow Feb 2014 #77
Seriously? Soundman Feb 2014 #204
I suspect poor decision-making on her part Scootaloo Feb 2014 #231
actually, i'm not sure she did get paid that much , i think they look to get on the cover JI7 Feb 2014 #14
I wonder if Kate is ever going to disown her teabagger uncle and declare her love Doctor_J Feb 2014 #166
Thanks for the link with all the hot SI covers! flvegan Feb 2014 #5
You do realize your comment is entirely transparent, I hope. Porn is all over the net. redqueen Feb 2014 #6
Sarcasm has always been in my wheelhouse, thanks. flvegan Feb 2014 #7
And yet you characterize objection to the annual celebration of objectification redqueen Feb 2014 #11
Here? Yes, I absolutely do. flvegan Feb 2014 #17
So what now? yeoman6987 Feb 2014 #46
It would be nice to think that Texasgal Feb 2014 #52
Nothing yeoman6987 Feb 2014 #54
Many don't "feel" women are objectified. They ARE and they HAVE BEEN, yes, even 50 years ago. redqueen Feb 2014 #58
Like yeoman6987 Feb 2014 #60
No problem. Texasgal Feb 2014 #63
Interesting that you characterize my criticism of objectification as "getting upset". redqueen Feb 2014 #55
Well my wording might be exaggerated yeoman6987 Feb 2014 #59
I do appreciate your sarcastic post upthread, redqueen Feb 2014 #61
the point is it s sexist garbage and does not belong on a progressive board creating a hostile seabeyond Feb 2014 #57
It's awful to create a hostile environment for fellow members: RiffRandell Feb 2014 #64
Give it rest. Texasgal Feb 2014 #65
Hostile environment? Like when you persisted in using sexist language towards me, laughed about it, msanthrope Feb 2014 #91
K&R me b zola Feb 2014 #10
Kate doesn't sound frigid or bitter in her interview. RiffRandell Feb 2014 #18
LOL... "frigid" and "bitter"? My but you sure have the lingo down pat. redqueen Feb 2014 #19
Totally welcome! nt RiffRandell Feb 2014 #22
wowser. bah hhahaha. probably all i will say in this thread also. but, ya. seabeyond Feb 2014 #26
Yep. redqueen Feb 2014 #28
laughing out loud, really. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #30
And they have no idea they are doing it! Squinch Feb 2014 #37
Link? nt RiffRandell Feb 2014 #34
Oh, I wouldn't bet on that. RiffRandell Feb 2014 #51
Flashback to 2012, DU Sports Group. Ptah Feb 2014 #20
If you have a point to make it would be nice if you could just please make it. redqueen Feb 2014 #23
yeah...WAITING.... CTyankee Feb 2014 #49
I guess it was just a dig at trumad after all. It's nice to be reminded of examples of people redqueen Feb 2014 #67
An honest view, IMO. We simply have to have a LOUD bullhorn to get our message across... CTyankee Feb 2014 #69
Everywhere, really. redqueen Feb 2014 #72
I've called it out in the past. Ptah Feb 2014 #84
Did you do it yesterday in the flamebait OP? redqueen Feb 2014 #96
No, I did not. Ptah Feb 2014 #97
+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Feb 2014 #254
As long as we're digging around in the past pintobean Feb 2014 #75
Oh...the pictures redqueen posted of herself and men she found attractive? Interesting. nt msanthrope Feb 2014 #101
Wanting construction workers to be topless pintobean Feb 2014 #104
Some people have open minds and change over time. Others have closed minds and remain stagnant. n/t seaglass Feb 2014 #144
And some just have double standards. pintobean Feb 2014 #152
Open mind = being open to ideas other than your own. Try it. n/t seaglass Feb 2014 #154
Oh, like hof. pintobean Feb 2014 #157
Yes there are ideas worth exploring in HoF. n/t seaglass Feb 2014 #162
Perhaps for the limited group of posters who aren't banned. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #223
Well I looked through who is banned and of the names I recognize, I also recognize their hostility seaglass Feb 2014 #246
I remember those pics Doctor_J Feb 2014 #167
Heh. +1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #224
^^^ This ^^^ Soundman Feb 2014 #205
Drooling over David Beckham? Whoa..that's an eye opener.. Upton Feb 2014 #212
Oh, looky.. yet ANOTHER random blogger, with indeterminate credentials.. opiate69 Feb 2014 #74
Don't disparage their medical credentials in "almost-getting-frostbite-opathy". lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #79
snork!!! opiate69 Feb 2014 #80
You've made a similar comment in several threads now. MadrasT Feb 2014 #197
Intersting thesis. One I would consider plausible were it not for... opiate69 Feb 2014 #229
Troll much? n/t MrModerate Feb 2014 #82
Only on days that end in "y" opiate69 Feb 2014 #90
Why are you referring to this OP -which offers a progressive feminist take on this issue - trolling? redqueen Feb 2014 #92
I dispute that there is any value in the way you raised this issue . . . MrModerate Feb 2014 #156
so you have no problem with objectification, ergo, raising the issue in any form would be a fail for seabeyond Feb 2014 #161
No, and it's disingenuous of you to suggest that I said anything like that MrModerate Feb 2014 #168
a couple things. seabeyond Feb 2014 #171
Whoops. Misread the ID. Sorry. MrModerate Feb 2014 #172
Right on! Puzzledtraveller Feb 2014 #247
"The vast majority of feminists criticize the objectification of women." Major Nikon Feb 2014 #179
How many identify as liberals? sufrommich Feb 2014 #203
Hardly Major Nikon Feb 2014 #218
Project much? nt laundry_queen Feb 2014 #99
That's not fair Renew Deal Feb 2014 #134
That's as may be . . . MrModerate Feb 2014 #158
Their purpose is to look pleasant to sell magazines... Lost_Count Feb 2014 #83
No, it isn't sex that sells, that's a myth. And yes, objectifying women is very wrong. redqueen Feb 2014 #98
No.. the "myth" is... opiate69 Feb 2014 #106
In the age of the internet shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #121
Certainly debatable... Lost_Count Feb 2014 #146
I suspect that once you've eaten pineapple shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #187
Objectification: cliffordu Feb 2014 #94
Um, no. Denigrating one half the human race by portraying them as sex objects has nothing to do redqueen Feb 2014 #95
Denigrating in your opinion cliffordu Feb 2014 #108
LOL. So in your opinion, objectification is great, redqueen Feb 2014 #114
The pejoratives you employ on my behalf cliffordu Feb 2014 #147
some folks who are males noiretextatique Feb 2014 #234
Thank you! JDPriestly Feb 2014 #100
My pleasure, I assure you! redqueen Feb 2014 #103
And it has nothing to do with sports or illustrating sports. undeterred Feb 2014 #102
No, it doesn't, and that's why it's such a powerful statement. redqueen Feb 2014 #105
Don't like it, don't look at it. NaturalHigh Feb 2014 #107
or... dont like it, speak out. ok... cool. will do. see how easy it is. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #109
Is it also okay for someone who likes it to say so? NaturalHigh Feb 2014 #117
you/others use sin, religion to again, shame and shut women up. it is bullshit. again, speaking out. seabeyond Feb 2014 #120
Where did I attempt to use religion to shame anyone? NaturalHigh Feb 2014 #135
I don't consider it a sin to look at these pictures seabeyond Feb 2014 #141
Again, you have every right to speak out. NaturalHigh Feb 2014 #151
A gross misrepresentation of the opposing argument. Nice try. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #111
Did I call anyone a prude? NaturalHigh Feb 2014 #115
The most effective kind of oppression conceals its mechanisms and intent. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #118
of course. as when he brings in the snide comment of it being a "sin". well, duh. pretty damn seabeyond Feb 2014 #125
I didn't know you were so adept at reading minds. NaturalHigh Feb 2014 #138
"I don't think it's wrong to look at women (or men) whom one finds attractive." nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #249
No complaints here Android3.14 Feb 2014 #110
are you 4th, android? seabeyond Feb 2014 #112
Eh? Android3.14 Feb 2014 #122
uh hu seabeyond Feb 2014 #126
Well that certainly clears things up Android3.14 Feb 2014 #132
She's accusing you of being a sockpuppet. name not needed Feb 2014 #136
I sent Android a link pintobean Feb 2014 #143
Thanks to the kind folks who explained it to me Android3.14 Feb 2014 #150
Ah, yes, the counter argument. There's always something more important to talk about. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #113
It's the outrage of the day, apparently. NaturalHigh Feb 2014 #140
"...complaining about pictures of pretty girls." Gee, another strawman... nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #250
Thank you for this, Redqueen! n/t PasadenaTrudy Feb 2014 #116
It has never been about 'fashion' AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #123
yes. thank you for agreeing. objectifying women is entirely normal in our world to entertain men. seabeyond Feb 2014 #127
Yes, it is AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #129
LOL, wow, are you entertaining. nt Logical Feb 2014 #183
You realize "normal" and "morally upright" are not synonyms, right? Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #131
OK AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #139
To attempt an argument confusing the two is bad form. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #142
There is nothing unethical about a woman in a bikini in a magazine AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #145
The absolutist rhetoric you espouse is an attempt to disambiguate a complex subject... Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #149
It is a simple subject AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #155
Power relations and human sexuality are mind bogglingly complex. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #160
You will never accept that sexuality AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #169
That's what you've deduced from my argument? That sexuality is inherently wrong? Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #170
You seem to believe that lust is dirty AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #174
No, I think you haven't actually considered my argument at all. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #189
What is the source? nt rrneck Feb 2014 #186
The patriarchy. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #188
You're trying to refute an argument that hasn't even been made. We call that a strawman. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #252
"T&A" isn't really the problem. It's making that the centerpiece, to the exclusion of all else. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #251
If there were more Asian, South-Asian, or Native women on the cover The2ndWheel Feb 2014 #124
I wondered that, too. And whether Kate Upton and the other models... WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2014 #185
Works for me. oldhippie Feb 2014 #164
Whatever floats your boat. edbermac Feb 2014 #180
As Chief Joseph of the Nez Pierce tribe once said Vinnie From Indy Feb 2014 #173
Art is, by its nature, somewhat objectifying. nt Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #178
Regarding objectification in art, you should really watch all four parts of this. redqueen Feb 2014 #225
Thank you for this, RedQ! cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #182
My pleasure! redqueen Feb 2014 #222
Males and females AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #184
"Fairly and respectfully indulged" is the kicker though. And holding all women to a narrow standard nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #253
Sexuality is a biological drive, not a social construct designed by the patriarchy davidn3600 Feb 2014 #190
If anything the patriarchy has been about repressing sexuality Major Nikon Feb 2014 #191
There's a good reason why the modern feminist movement is rejecting 3rd wave feminism. n/t MadrasT Feb 2014 #193
From everything I've read, sex-positive feminism IS the mainstream davidn3600 Feb 2014 #196
Sports Illustrated isn't a sex-positive feminist publication... Hippo_Tron Feb 2014 #230
I wasnt saying that it was davidn3600 Feb 2014 #239
I'll make sure I send those three ladies tweets to shame them for their evil ways The Straight Story Feb 2014 #192
Time for a good old fashioned book burn- I mean, magazine burning! quinnox Feb 2014 #198
Except nobody is calling for books to be burned. sufrommich Feb 2014 #202
The SI is like an abortion.. sendero Feb 2014 #200
Wow. Are you fucking seriously comparing a medical procedure that women actually need access to redqueen Feb 2014 #206
I'm saying your desire to abridge the rights of others.. sendero Feb 2014 #235
Do they even at least do a beefcake cover once a year treestar Feb 2014 #207
No, why should they? They can fall back on MRA talking points - e.g. that men are objectified redqueen Feb 2014 #209
Why would they need to make that claim? Android3.14 Feb 2014 #210
Gay men don't like sports? Really? Or wait, is it just that nobody by white straight men matters? redqueen Feb 2014 #211
Lost cause RedQueen ismnotwasm Feb 2014 #214
Of course they do...but it's a matter of readership numbers. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #215
So that's what the ignore button is for... Android3.14 Feb 2014 #217
Women don't like sports? treestar Feb 2014 #240
SI subscribers can opt out of the Swimsuit edition.. Upton Feb 2014 #241
Equal treatment? Upton Feb 2014 #213
I thought that's what all the other SI issues were? nt kjones Feb 2014 #238
These discussions always go the same way. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #216
There are also a handful of women cheering them on, redqueen Feb 2014 #221
yep... BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #244
As if a request for courtesy or discretion is somehow trampling on *their rights*... nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #255
bigtime. BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #256
I can't think of an easy answer, really. There's so much ambiguity, so much "plausible deniability" nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #257
I agree. the malicious behavior is so blatant. BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #258
Like the kid who gets bullied, and then gets in trouble for responding to the bully. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #260
Kick & recommended. William769 Feb 2014 #219
Thank you. redqueen Feb 2014 #226
It was brought to my attention that some intellectual dishonesty was being directed at me personally redqueen Feb 2014 #220
Trust me when I say "such blatantly rightwing tactics are not just directed at you. William769 Feb 2014 #227
Oh yes, you're exactly right. redqueen Feb 2014 #228
I saw the posts. dredge up someone's past behaviors as if it would smear them. BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #245
................... Puzzledtraveller Feb 2014 #248
It's 50 years of marketing success. scarletwoman Feb 2014 #259
 

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)
1. I never understood the point of the SI swimsuit issue.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:06 PM
Feb 2014

It has nothing to do with sports. Why do they even make it (other than for the obvious pubescent titillation)?

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
9. As was explained to me last night
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:18 PM
Feb 2014

It's apparently supposed to be a gap-filler when there's no sports to cover. Which is odd, since I'm pretty sure there's ALWAYS sports going on.

Also, having attractive breasts is equal to having skill in playing a sport. So it's practically the same, I guess?



I must say it's an amusing experience, as a man, to be mansplained towards. I was expecting the question, "do you even lift, bro?" to come up.

JI7

(89,251 posts)
47. are you having trouble following the conversation ?
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:52 PM
Feb 2014

my reply was to the post which said the reason for the swimsuit cover was because of no sports at the time. i was referring to a statement made specifically about the cover.

i didn't say they did not report anything about the olympics.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
56. Yes.. And.. It may seem complicated, but I think you can follow...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:01 PM
Feb 2014

For starters, SI generally only reports on major, professional sports. And, back when the swimsuit issue premiered, all 4 of the major, American pro sports leagues had much shorter seasons than they do now. The result being, none of the 4 majors had anything scheduled in February. Since, in the intervening years, the swimsuit rdition has proven to be particularly popular and, yes, profitable, as well as becoming a major launching pad for the careers of many supermodels, it has evolved beyond it's original incarnation.

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
236. none of the 4 majors had anything in February -- except the NBA and the NHL
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 04:33 PM
Feb 2014

They had shorter seasons then, sure, but the finals still weren't until April. Also, for the record, the first swimsuit issue was in January anyway. It didn't move to February until the late 1970s.

The yarn about it coming about because there wasn't enough sports to cover is oft-repeated, but never really made much sense, in my opinion. The NBA and NHL are both in play, as is college basketball. Besides, the first issue only had a few pages of swimsuits. It isn't like they were really relying on it for content in the midst of a sports-barren landscape. Hell, a lot of the issues in the 1960s and 1970s came out the same weekend as the Super Bowl. So they probably could have found something to write about, had they wanted to.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
45. Where do we NOT hear about the Olympics? It is everywhere...I hear a lot about it on my
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:52 PM
Feb 2014

local TV ABC affiilate in New Haven...

dsc

(52,162 posts)
31. back in the day many seasons were shorter than they are now
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:41 PM
Feb 2014

both basketball and hockey have vastly longer seasons now than they did in the 50's. Football also has a longer season now than it did.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
38. My understanding of sports may be limited...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:45 PM
Feb 2014

I wasn't exacgtly a gym rat in high school... but... there are varieties of competitive athletics besides basketball, hockey, and football, yes? For instance... boxing? Pretty sure that's a year-round thing - it was back when the firs swimsuit issue came out. I know there's lacrosse which I guess counts as a sport

Point is there's really not any reason for there to be a "gap" in sports journalism, because yes, there actually is always something to cover. Somehow the sports pages of newspapers all over the nation manage it.

 

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)
39. How could there possibly be no sports to report on?
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:47 PM
Feb 2014

Sports are on everywhere all the time.

I'm very confused by that.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
42. I know, right?
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:50 PM
Feb 2014

Hell, we could get sports AND treating women as objects this time of year, with a little internationalism.

Meet Finland:

DreamGypsy

(2,252 posts)
148. No sports to cover?? Here is the list of ultrarunning events 1/1/2014 to 2/16/2014...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:23 PM
Feb 2014

...from UltraRunning:

(see Notes below)

04-Jan-2014 Harbison 50K Columbia, SC 50km 3 4 http://www.harbison50k.com
04-Jan-2014 Neusiok Trail Run Havelock, NC 100km 1 3 http://www.neusioktrailrun.com
04-Jan-2014 Neusiok Trail Run Havelock, NC 43 miles 1 3 http://www.neusioktrailrun.com
04-Jan-2014 Watchung Winter Ultra - 50K Mountainside, NJ 50km 3 3 http://njtrailseries.com/watchung
04-Jan-2014 Frozen Sasquatch Trail Race Kanawha State Forest, WV 50km 3 3 http://www.wvmtr.org/events/frozen-sasquatch-trail-50k25k/
04-Jan-2014 2nd Annual Wild Azalea Trail Challenge Woodworth, LA 50miles 2 3
04-Jan-2014 2014 PHUNT 50K Elkton, MD 50km 3 3 http://www.traildawgs.org
04-Jan-2014 The Pistol Ultra Run Alcoa, TN 100miles 1 1 http://www.pistolultra.com
04-Jan-2014 The Pistol Ultra Run Alcoa, TN 100km 1 1 http://www.pistolultra.com
04-Jan-2014 The Pistol Ultra Run Alcoa, TN 50km 1 1 http://www.pistolultra.com
11-Jan-2014 Frozen Gnome 50K/10K Trail Races Crystal Lake, IL 50km 3 3 http://ultrasignup.com/register.aspx?did=24430
11-Jan-2014 San Tan Scramblem Queen Creek, AZ 50km 2 3 http://www.aravaiparunning.com/san-tan-scramble/
11-Jan-2014 Crystal Springs Trail Run Woodside, CA 50km 3 3 http://www.coastaltrailruns.com/cs_wntr_crystal_springs.html
12-Jan-2014 Run for Regis 50K Cleveland, OH 50km 2 3 http://runforregis.blogspot.com/
12-Jan-2014 Two Bays Trail Run Dromana, Victoria Australia 56 km 3 3 http://www.twobaystrailrun.com/
18-Jan-2014 H.U.R.T. Trail 100 Mile Endurance Run Honolulu, HI 100miles 5 5 http://www.hurt100trailrace.com/
18-Jan-2014 24hrs of HOSTELity Dahlonega, GA 24hour 1 2 http://www.dumassevents.com
18-Jan-2014 Long Haul 100 Wesley Chapel, FL 100miles 1 2 http://longhaul100.com/
18-Jan-2014 Long Haul 100 Wesley Chapel, FL 100km 1 2 http://longhaul100.com/
18-Jan-2014 Hilo to Volcano Hilo, HI 50km 3 1 http://www.bigislandroadrunners.org/
18-Jan-2014 Wilson Creek Frozen 50k Melba, ID 50km 4 3 http://emilyberriochoa.com/Frozen50k
18-Jan-2014 Capitol Peak Mega Fat Ass Olympia, WA 55 km 3 3 https://capitolpeakultras.com/Mega_Fat_Ass.html
18-Jan-2014 Steep Ravine Trail Run Stinson Beach, CA 50km 3 3 http://www.coastaltrailruns.com/sr_steep_ravine.html
18-Jan-2014 Pacifica Foothills Trail Run Pacifica, CA USA 50km 3 3 http://www.insidetrail.com/ai1ec_event/pacifica-foothills-trail-run/
21-Jan-2014 Angelfire Endurance Angelfire, NM 50miles 3 3 http://www.friendsofmultisport.com
22-Jan-2014 Salem Lakeshore Frosty 50K Winston-Salem, NC 50km 1 2 http://www.twincitytc.org/RaceInformation/RaceCalendar/Frosty50/tabid/69/Default.aspx
25-Jan-2014 Running from an Angel 50 Miler Boulder City, NV 50miles 3 1 http://www.calicoracing.com
25-Jan-2014 Show Detail Coldwater Rumble Goodyear, AZ 52 km 3 4 http://www.aravaiparunning.com/coldwater-rumble/
25-Jan-2014 Coldwater Rumble Goodyear, AZ 52 miles 3 4 http://www.aravaiparunning.com/coldwater-rumble/
25-Jan-2014 Coldwater Rumble Goodyear, AZ 100miles 3 4 http://www.aravaiparunning.com/coldwater-rumble/
25-Jan-2014 The James Stampede Ultra Mountain Run Hanmer Springs, Canterbury New Zealand 50km 4 3 http://stjamesmountainsports.co.nz/the-james-stampede-ultra/
25-Jan-2014 NC Fat Ass 50k Ft. Bragg, NC 50km 2 2 http://www.etinternet.net/~runrbike/ncfa50k.htm
25-Jan-2014 Coldwater Rumble Goodyear, AZ 50km 2 3 http://www.aravaiparunning.com/coldwater-rumble/
25-Jan-2014 Coldwater Rumble Goodyear, AZ 50miles 2 3 http://www.aravaiparunning.com/coldwater-rumble/
25-Jan-2014 Coldwater Rumble Goodyear, AZ 100miles 2 3 http://www.aravaiparunning.com/coldwater-rumble/
25-Jan-2014 Kahtoola Bigfoot Snowshoe Festival Midway, UT 50km 2 2 http://http//:www.squawpeak50.com
26-Jan-2014 Calico Trail Run Calico Ghost Town, CA 50km 3 3 http://www.CalicoTrailRun.org
01-Feb-2014 The Pilgrim Challenge 2012 Multistage (2 Day) Ultra Farnham, Surrey UK 66 miles 3 3 http://www.xnrg.co.uk/pilgrim2014.htm
01-Feb-2014 Jed Smith Ultra Classic 50 km Sacramento, CA 50km 1 1 http://www.buffalochips.com/jed-smith-ultras/
01-Feb-2014 Jed Smith Ultra Classic 50 mile Sacramento, CA 50miles 1 1 http://www.buffalochips.com/jed-smith-ultras/
01-Feb-2014 ICY-8 HR Trail Run Spotsylvania, VA 8 hours 3 3 http://athletic-equation.com/ICY-8_HR_ATR.html
01-Feb-2014 Sugarloaves' Ultra Vista (S.U.V.) Trail Races Vado, TX United States 60 km 3 3 http://markdorion.wordpress.com
01-Feb-2014 Skydive Ultra Clewiston, FL 100miles 1 3 http://www.skydiveultra.com
01-Feb-2014 Skydive Ultra Clewiston, FL 50miles 1 3 http://www.skydiveultra.com
01-Feb-2014 Skydive Ultra Clewiston, FL 50km 1 3 http://www.skydiveultra.com
01-Feb-201 Fort Ord Trail Run Salinas, CA USA 50km 3 3 http://www.insidetrail.com/ai1ec_event/fort-ord-trail-run/
01-Feb-2014 Ordnance 100K Salinas, CA USA 100km 3 3 http://www.insidetrail.com/ai1ec_event/ordnance-100k/
01-Feb-2014 Antelope Canyon 50 Mile Page , AZ 50miles 3 3 http://www.ultra-adventures.com
01-Feb-2014 Antelope Canyon 50K Page , AZ 50km 3 3 http://www.ultra-adventures.com/events/antelope-canyon/
01-Feb-2014 Whispering Pines 12 Hour Inverness, FL 12hour 2 2 http://www.ultrasontrails.com
07-Feb-2014 Maysville to Macon Maysville, NC 50miles http://www.maysvilletomacon.com
07-Feb-2014 IditaSport Knik, AK USA 100km 2 2 http://www.IditaSportAlaska.com
07-Feb-2014 IditaSport Knik, AK USA 200 miles 2 2 http://www.IditaSportAlaska.com
08-Feb-2014 MTC 50K and 25K Sarasota, FL 50km 1 3 http://ManasotaTrackClub.org
08-Feb-2014 American Canyon Ultramarathon and Trail Race Auburn, CA 50km 3 3 http://www.sierrapacificendurance.com
08-Feb-2014 Piney Woods TrailFest 50K Houston, TX 50km 1 2 http://www.runintexas.com/piney
08-Feb-2014 Golden Gate Trail Run Sausalito, CA 50km 3 3 http://www.coastaltrailruns.com/gg_golden_gate.html
08-Feb-2014 Mill Stone 50K Fort Mill, SC United States 50km 2 3 http://www.rockhillstriders.org
08-Feb-2014 Mid-Maryland Ultra 50k and Relay Elkridge, MD United States 50km 2 3 http://bullseyerunning.com/
15-Feb-2014 Iron Horse 100 Mile Endurance Run Florahome, FL USA 100miles 1 2 http://www.ironhorse100kmclub.com
15-Feb-2014 Black Canyon Trail Mayer, AZ 100km 3 3 http://www.aravaiparunning.com/black-canyon/
15-Feb-2014 Little Su 50K Big Lake, AK 50km 1 5 http://www.susitna100.com
15-Feb-2014 Susitna 100 Big Lake, AK 100miles 1 5 http://susitna100.com
15-Feb-2014 Black Warrior.Phillip Parker Trail Runs Moulton, AL 50km 2 3 http://www.blackwarrior50k.com
15-Feb-2014 Jackpot Ultra Running Festival Las Vegas, NV 100miles 2 2 http://www.beyondlimitsrunning.com
15-Feb-2014 Jackpot Ultra Running Festival Las Vegas, NV 24hour 2 2 http://www.beyondlimitsrunning.com
15-Feb-2014 Jackpot Ultra Running Festival Las Vegas, NV 12hour 2 2 http://www.beyondlimitsrunning.com
15-Feb-2014 Jackpot Ultra Running Festival Las Vegas, NV 6hour 2 2 http://www.beyondlimitsrunning.com
15-Feb-2014 Lake Okeechobee Scenic Trail 118 miler Clewiston, FL 118 miles 1 1 http://www.furtinc.com
15-Feb-2014 Moab Red Hot 55k/33k Moab, UT 50km 3 4 http://grassrootsevents.net/home/moabs-red-hot-55k-33k/
16-Feb-2014 Sahara Race (Jordan) Cairo, Petra, Jordan 250 km 2 4 http://www.4deserts.com/sahararace/
16-Feb-2014 Destin Beach Ultra Runs Destin, FL 50 km 1 2 http://www.beachultra.com
16-Feb-2014 Chilly Cupid 50k Fatass Cambellsport, WI 50km 2 3 https://www.facebook.com/events/472136432905436/


Notes:

1. In the ultrarunning community the term 'Fatass' does have the same meaning as might be applied to a cover of Sports Illustrated.

2. The terms ultrarun (an event) and ultrarunning (a sport) are derived from the term ultramarathon which means:

An ultramarathon (also called ultra distance) is any sporting event involving running and walking longer than the traditional marathon length of 42.195 kilometres (26.219 mi).



...but there is much friendly discussion in the community of the bounds of 'longer' and 'arduous' that are required for a 'real ultra'.

3. Unlike most of the sports covered in Sports Illustrated, ultrarunning is a participant sport and not a spectator sport (watching someone circle a 400 meter track for six days or three thousand miles can get just a little boring). Not surprising that S.I. chooses racey covers over covering ultra races.

4. Ultrarunning is essentially a non-professional sport. Although some prizes have crept into the sport in the recent years, the monetary value is generally equivalent to about a 12 second slice of the annual compensation for a typical professional football quarterback. And even the Ironman(woman) winning prize is now $250K; nothing like that in ultrarunning of which I am aware. The real reward in ultrarunning is the joy of one long journey through nature in the company of friends, the satisfaction of completing that challenge, and the anticipation of the next adventure.

5. Ultrarunning is a very egalitarian sport. Old, young, female, male, whatever. For example, check out the AGE GROUP AND OVERALL COURSE RECORDS for Badwater, the now 135 mile run out and back from Lone Pine to Death Valley and then up to Whitney Portal: women ages 28 to 64 (with a 63 year old under 48 hours) and men ages 19 to 75 (with a 70 year old under 40 hours).


Anyway, enough self-indulgence on my favorite sport.

Sports Illustrated is a typical corporate commercial conglomerate rag whose only goal is to play the game and suck money out of pockets into their coffers and into the coffers of the corporate conglomerate spectator sports teams on which they report. And many, many people buy that, including its soft porn, exploitative corners. Oh, well.
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
153. Oh, I know
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:26 PM
Feb 2014

I found it to be a completely ludicrous explanation. Apparently this person thinks "sports" ends at the super bowl and doesn't pick up until Baseball season starts.

Basically if it doesn't sell gatorade, it's not a sport, I guess.

DreamGypsy

(2,252 posts)
159. I figured that out...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:41 PM
Feb 2014

...and wasn't ranting at you, just to the vacuum.

BTW, ultrarunning sells lots...well, a lot of, sports drinks, electrolyte supplements, and energy products relative to the size of the market.

But, gatorade???

That went out of fashion about the same time as 'swimming' attire, men's and women's, that didn't give you a wedgie.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
175. More like if it does not have a ball it is not a sport
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:04 AM
Feb 2014

But likely athletics. I do not totally agree but I do think there is a difference betwen sports
and athletics

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
176. Somehow I think coverage of ultrarunning would sell fewer magazines than bikini-clad
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:16 AM
Feb 2014

young beauties. Of course I am a math teacher and not a marketeer, but...

 

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)
89. This man wouldn't mind subscribing to it.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:08 PM
Feb 2014

But, you know, stuff like that can be free online in other places.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
81. but some men do think women are sport...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:58 PM
Feb 2014

to be hunted and caught, sometimes wounded, and not quite fully human - like an animal.

 

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)
86. Ugh.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:03 PM
Feb 2014

Reminds me of that one asshole who had his pickup truck bed liner painted in a way that made it look like there was a woman tied up and gagged in the bed of the truck.

Renew Deal

(81,861 posts)
130. It was used as a big subscription driver pre-internet.`
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:06 PM
Feb 2014

It was always one of their big promotions to drive subscriptions.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
163. when this started 50 years ago there wasn't between the end of football (around Jan 1)
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:43 PM
Feb 2014

and baseball (Apr 8 or so)

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
237. except for the NBA, the NHL, college basketball ... and, for the record, the Super Bowl was
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 04:37 PM
Feb 2014

often played the same weekend the swimsuit issue came out in the 60s and 70s. So there were a few sports available, for the truly dedicated

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
181. It is about the coming of Spring and Summer after a hard Winter. I understood that as
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:38 AM
Feb 2014

a teen. I didn't buy SI because of the swimsuit edition. I hardly paid attention to the addition, I loved sports more. My favorite editions were the ones that covered the Olympics, particularly the Summer Games.

hlthe2b

(102,285 posts)
2. How wonderful it would be if that cover of models would, instead, feature some of our incredible
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:06 PM
Feb 2014

female athletes engaged in their sport--not posed in sexually suggestive poses, but just showing their innate physicality and the beauty of sport.

What a gift THAT would be for our daughters (and sons, for that matter).

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
3. Yes, that would be a sign of progress.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:08 PM
Feb 2014

But the issue is not about respecting women, it's about objectifying them... so that would be changing the entire reason for the issue.

sheshe2

(83,785 posts)
50. This is the power and strength of a woman athelete.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:54 PM
Feb 2014


One of the greatest female athletes ever- Jackie Joyner-Kersee. By Annie Liebovitz

Born on March 3, 1962, in East St. Louis, Illinois, Jackie Joyner-Kersee was the first American to win gold for the long jump and the first woman to earn more than 7,000 points in the seven-event heptathlon. She's ultimately won three golds, a silver and two bronze, making her the most decorated female athlete in Olympic track and field history. She's gone on to advocate for children.

snip

In 1986, Joyner-Kersee married her coach, Bob Kersee. He also trained Joyner-Kersee's sister-in-law, the late track star Florence Joyner. Bob came under media speculation in 1988, when Florence Joyner improved her times in the 100-meter run, 200-meter run and 4-by-100 meter relay—and took gold medals in all three events—at the 1988 Olympics. Many people questioned Bob's training techniques and suggested that he could have been encouraging his runners to use performance-enhancing drugs. In the late 1990s, Bob became a volunteer member of UCLA's track and field coaching staff—a position he has held for more than a decade.

A sufferer of exercise-induced asthma, Joyner-Kersee officially retired from track and field in 2001 at age 38. Following her retirement, she founded the Jackie Joyner-Kersee Youth Center Foundation, which is aimed at encouraging youth in her underprivileged hometown to play sports.

more
http://www.biography.com/people/jackie-joyner-kersee-9358710

This is how she was portrayed on the cover of SI



How SI has deteriorated when picturing women as athletes. To now picking models as eye candy and objects. Is SI the new Hustler Magazine! It is meant to titillate and sell as many magazines as possible. It's humiliating.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
53. To be fair, when they (occasionally) show female athletes on the cover,
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:59 PM
Feb 2014

they don't routinely sexualize them.

This annual celebration of objectification used to at least make a faint attempt at pretending it was somehow related to sports, but that ended long ago.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
4. See? The problem isn't that the issue is flame bait, it's that you want to pick which flames to bait
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:08 PM
Feb 2014

Is there anything that you'll post in this thread that you haven't already said in the other?

As far as Kate Upton goes, I suspect she was paid more than the average crab fisherman gets for the same discomfort.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
12. That's not a great argument
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:22 PM
Feb 2014

"So what if you damn near died so we could center-frame your tits at the south pole? You got paid didn't ya?!"

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
16. I suspect that Kate Upton's definition of "damn near died!" isn't the same as mine.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:28 PM
Feb 2014

If they didn't tell her or her publicist that they'd be shooting swimsuit photos in antarctica, then yeah, you have a point, but if she simply hadn't brushed up on her geography recently, then no.

JI7

(89,251 posts)
21. she was suffering eyesight and hearing loss and her body was shutting down, that is beyond just
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:35 PM
Feb 2014

being uncomfortable due to cold.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
29. The rest of the Today show quote might be illuminating.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:40 PM
Feb 2014
“I could really only do it for a minute and then everyone would come running and throw blankets on top of me and they would build me like a little blanket cave,’’ she said. “I really went all out on this. We went there thinking we might not even get a shot, and came back with the cover.”

In between shivering in a bathing suit, Upton was able to soak up the Antarctic scenery.

“It was the most beautiful place I’ve ever been,’’ she said. “Before I took off my coat, I would just enjoy the views. The mountains were pink and the water was glass. It was like little ice cubes were in the water. It was gorgeous.’’


Far be it from me to suggest not taking a bloggers statements as gospel.

JI7

(89,251 posts)
32. how does any of that change anything ? i'm sure china sweatshop workers are happy to get what they
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:41 PM
Feb 2014

can working there rather than not having that job at all.

doesn't mean standards should not be better.

JI7

(89,251 posts)
66. once again that does not change anything, you seem resentful of the money she has
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:08 PM
Feb 2014

so are saying any risk to her health is ok because she has something that you don't have.

it's just fucking weird.

but people do it often when they complain about unions who want more because they themselves aren't making as much.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
68. Envy? The class warfare card? Seriously?
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:10 PM
Feb 2014

I'm suggesting that 21 year old millionaire models from Florida with a blanket-wielding entourage may lack expertise in "almost frostbite".

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
71. Because common sense.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:20 PM
Feb 2014

Kate Upton was the most valuable person on the boat.

Hey! I have an idea! Let's throw a multimillionaire supermodel out on an ice floe and photograph her while she freezes to death! I bet we'll get lots of good pictures! and advertisers!

I don't doubt that it was a challenging modeling gig, and she has a reason to be proud that it came out well. Life threatening? No.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
33. Oh yeah, I'm sure she's just being hysterical; you know how women can be!
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:41 PM
Feb 2014

She says she was caught by surprise. And she says her health suffered from it. Is there any reason to belittle her? Tell you what; you stand naked on a boat in the Antarctic for a several-our photo shoot, tell me how well you do.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
48. I've had hypothermia.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:54 PM
Feb 2014

... but there was no crew nearby to smother me with blankets every sixty seconds.

“I could really only do it for a minute and then everyone would come running and throw blankets on top of me and they would build me like a little blanket cave,’’ she said. “I really went all out on this. We went there thinking we might not even get a shot, and came back with the cover.”


I suspect that "almost got frostbite!" is hyperbole and I also suspect that the blogger quoted by the OP knows it.

I don't think that the "workplace safety" angle as a criticism of super-modeling is going to lend much traction.
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
73. I suspect your suspicions are based more on the inconveniance this causes for your position
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:25 PM
Feb 2014

It's not just that Antarctica is polar. Antarctica also has no warm-water currents; they're blocked off by the circumpolar current that surrounds the continent. There's also not much by way of windbreak anywhere in the place; the tallest things outside the mountains (which are nowhere near the coast / ice shelves) are birds that are four feet tall if they stretch. So there's the wind chill.

Blankets? Okay. here, let me show you something.



That is a picture of people on an Antarctica tour. They are dressed in multiple layers of clothing designed for very low temperatures. This clothing is supplied, in this case, by the national Geographic society, and I have to imagine the NGS knows how to equip people for that. You know what? all of those people in that picture are still cold. They're going to hike around and take pictures for maybe 30 minutes before being shuttled back to that ship where they will hide out in warmed cabins and thaw out while talking about penguins. And this is a springtime picture in the South Georgia Islands, which is basically Antarctica's version of a tropical getaway. So yeah... cold place.

Blankets... really aren't going to cut the mustard. especially not over the course of hours. While I'm sure the people around her made all the efforts they could to keep Kate warm, what she describes is completely inadequate for the conditions. There's also just the consideration of how the industry works - you want to get as many shots, as quickly as you can, but the shoot can still take hours upon hours.

The problem is just that the human body doesn't withstand Antarctica very well - it's the one place humans have never settled, and for good reasons. it doesn't matter that each instance of Upton's exposure to the weather was as brief as the crew could make it - it was still exposure. Exposure is cumulative, if you're not taking time to fully recover from it. And in fact alternating from warm to cold to warm to cold again can make it worse. Here we have a woman who is doing nude photo shoots in the most inhospitable place with breathable air on the planet, and all that's standing between her and becoming an ice sculpture is some interns with quilts.

And you want to call her a liar, on the basis that she's a model? Really?

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
76. My position?
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:44 PM
Feb 2014

Let's ask Kate.

The model has Sports Illustrated to thank for propelling her into superhero status in 2012.

"Everything's changed," she said, reflecting back a year. "I have so many opportunities now with different clients and I think for me what's really exciting is now I get to choose which clients I work with, so I can do products or shoots that I really love and I really believe in."


Has anyone thought to ask her or her stock broker if she's feeling exploited?
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
93. Your position that she's a liar about the impact that shoot had on her health
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:11 PM
Feb 2014

"I want to see a doctor's note," remember?

Do keep up.

 

Soundman

(297 posts)
204. Seriously?
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 10:27 AM
Feb 2014

Where is the hat? That is just plain silly. Guess you have never seen how people are outfitted for really cold weather eh? You might want to try a different pic if you want to be taken semi seriously.

JI7

(89,251 posts)
14. actually, i'm not sure she did get paid that much , i think they look to get on the cover
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:25 PM
Feb 2014

as a way to try to help their career . and it still doesn't excuse the health risks. this is why we oppose sweatshops and other things.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
166. I wonder if Kate is ever going to disown her teabagger uncle and declare her love
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:46 PM
Feb 2014

for Al Franken and other liberal nerds. Not necessarily me, though that would be fun.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
6. You do realize your comment is entirely transparent, I hope. Porn is all over the net.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:14 PM
Feb 2014

These covers aren't hard to find either.

Thanks for showing your true colors, not that anyone was under any illusions.

flvegan

(64,408 posts)
7. Sarcasm has always been in my wheelhouse, thanks.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:18 PM
Feb 2014

No illusions at all.

I appreciate the enlightenment about the proliferation of porn on the net. I don't really participate in viewing it as I find it often objectifies women, and an uncomfortable amount of it smacks of violence to me.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
11. And yet you characterize objection to the annual celebration of objectification
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:20 PM
Feb 2014

which is the SI Swimsuit edition as being "outrage fail" on the part of "the bikini hater brigade".

Something sure smacks of something.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
46. So what now?
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:52 PM
Feb 2014

It seems like this is complained about every year and yet every year another issue goes to print. I understand your upset over it but year after year getting upset has not ended up in much of a result. I posted to you because you seem to be the most upset over this particular issue.

Texasgal

(17,045 posts)
52. It would be nice to think that
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:59 PM
Feb 2014

on a fifty year anniversary they could actually cover beautiful WOMEN athletes. What's wrong with discussing this issue?

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
54. Nothing
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:00 PM
Feb 2014

I am sorry I didn't realize it was the 50th Year Anniversary. Perhaps having the original cover which I would assume would be much more modest might have been a cool idea. See how it was back in the day when respect for woman was important. Today many feel woman are objectified.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
58. Many don't "feel" women are objectified. They ARE and they HAVE BEEN, yes, even 50 years ago.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:03 PM
Feb 2014

This is nothing new. And respect for women was not any more important 50 years ago than it is now. It's considered important by some, treated as a laughable notion by many, and barely given more than a passing thought by most (and by that I mean most people don't even understand the concept of objectification, and they're perfectly happy not knowing much about it).

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
55. Interesting that you characterize my criticism of objectification as "getting upset".
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:01 PM
Feb 2014

It's called raising awareness, and the only way it will change is if more people bother to recognize how fucked up it is to objectify women this way.

If nobody speaks out (or as you minimized it 'gets upset') nothing will ever change, and that is simply not an option.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
59. Well my wording might be exaggerated
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:03 PM
Feb 2014

You do seem peeved by this cover. Another DU'er mentioned the 50th Anniversary. I thought putting the original cover on the issue might be cool. You could compare the time when woman were respected 100 percent and compare it to today where woman are objectified. It would be neat to compare at least.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
61. I do appreciate your sarcastic post upthread,
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:04 PM
Feb 2014

but I have to say these recent posts are confusing me.

You are saying that women were respected 100 percent of the time back then. Is that sarcasm?

Are you referring to the fact that portraying women as sex objects wasn't 24/7 in your face all the time and society wasn't yet thoroughly pornified back then?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
57. the point is it s sexist garbage and does not belong on a progressive board creating a hostile
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:02 PM
Feb 2014

environment for fellow duers....

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
91. Hostile environment? Like when you persisted in using sexist language towards me, laughed about it,
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:09 PM
Feb 2014

and refused to answer my question about whether it was acceptable for you to be called the same?

Look, I think before you start accusing other DUers of a hostile environment, you ought to consider that you have been far more sexist towards me than any man on this board.

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
18. Kate doesn't sound frigid or bitter in her interview.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:33 PM
Feb 2014

Sports Illustrated really launched my career, and I have a lot to thank them for,’’ Upton said. “I feel like I’m on the top right now. I’m really excited. I just want to enjoy this moment.”

http://www.today.com/style/kate-upton-antarctic-shoot-si-my-body-was-shutting-down-1C8341178

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
19. LOL... "frigid" and "bitter"? My but you sure have the lingo down pat.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:34 PM
Feb 2014

Thanks for adding your thoughtful commentary.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
26. wowser. bah hhahaha. probably all i will say in this thread also. but, ya.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:38 PM
Feb 2014

yesterday it was something about jealousy.

Ptah

(33,030 posts)
20. Flashback to 2012, DU Sports Group.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:35 PM
Feb 2014
How do you feel about the yearly SPORTS Illustrated Swimsuit edition?

I like it... Swimming is a great sport and why not show swimwear.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12043066


Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue 2012 Cover revealed-Upton--- I had no idea!

Hey --- if this group can have a fucking Dog Show thread..............

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12046812

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
23. If you have a point to make it would be nice if you could just please make it.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 08:36 PM
Feb 2014

The personal vendettas around here are so fucking tiresome. I hope this isn't more of that crap.

It would sure be nice if we could just discuss the issue in the OP.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
67. I guess it was just a dig at trumad after all. It's nice to be reminded of examples of people
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:08 PM
Feb 2014

who learn and grow over time. I know I have. I used to be quite the pro-objectification liberal feminist. I used to think if we could just objectify more men, everything would be equal and all that.

I got a huge wake up call when one particular liberal man showed his ass, and made it crystal clear that simply showing more mostly naked hot men cannot balance any scales. The only way to change society is to stop indoctrinating women to view themselves as objects, and stop indoctrinating men to view them as such.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
69. An honest view, IMO. We simply have to have a LOUD bullhorn to get our message across...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:13 PM
Feb 2014

and also in lesser loud venues...should be in office politics, in college classes, in any and every government office across the land...loud and clear.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
72. Everywhere, really.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:23 PM
Feb 2014

Everywhere it's encountered, it has to be called out. That's the only way to keep momentum moving forward. We *do not* want a repeat of the backsliding of the 90's and 00's.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
96. Did you do it yesterday in the flamebait OP?
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:13 PM
Feb 2014

I don't much care about your obsession with trumad, in case you hadn't noticed. This thread isn't about trumad.

seaglass

(8,171 posts)
144. Some people have open minds and change over time. Others have closed minds and remain stagnant. n/t
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:17 PM
Feb 2014
 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
152. And some just have double standards.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:24 PM
Feb 2014

I do find it amazing, what would pass for an open mind, though.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
223. Perhaps for the limited group of posters who aren't banned.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:11 PM
Feb 2014

Frankly, the shit list at HoF looks like the roster of the All Star Game.

seaglass

(8,171 posts)
246. Well I looked through who is banned and of the names I recognize, I also recognize their hostility
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 12:16 PM
Feb 2014

to either the group as a whole or individuals in the group. Not sure how any productive conversation can come about when people are hostile. It's one of the reasons I won't participate in your group - in addition to it being your safe haven as HoF is for the members there.

All Star roster - that characterizations is pretty damn funny. We are in sad shape if that is DU's cream of the crop - present company excluded of course.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
167. I remember those pics
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:52 PM
Feb 2014

Back then I probably would have thought, "Wowsa". But tonight I will not comment on them, due to my enlightenment in the intervening years.

Upton

(9,709 posts)
212. Drooling over David Beckham? Whoa..that's an eye opener..
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 11:53 AM
Feb 2014

Besides the obvious hypocrisy, I thought she was an Arsenal fan..

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
74. Oh, looky.. yet ANOTHER random blogger, with indeterminate credentials..
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:31 PM
Feb 2014

Being trotted out as a font of great wisdom.

Obvious pseudo-intellectualism is obvious.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
197. You've made a similar comment in several threads now.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 08:15 AM
Feb 2014

You seem to misunderstand why people quote bloggers.

It isn't to try to "prove" something or an attempt to add credibility to an opinion. Many of these debates aren't able to be proven scientifically and never will be.

The point of quoting a blogger is because you found something someone else wrote, and you appreciate the way they've explained something, you agree with the point of view, and it saves you the trouble of writing the same damn thing all over again.

That's it.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
229. Intersting thesis. One I would consider plausible were it not for...
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:22 PM
Feb 2014

The fact that the people who post them have proven time and time again that they will suffer no dissent, because they are, in their view, here for no other reason but to "educate" the rest of us. These articles are continually posted with the obvious subject of being some sort of "wisdom from on high". Legitimate criticism of these articles is almost universally met with a resounding chorus of "you obviously don't understand the concept", or some variation thereon. It never once cross their minds that maybe, just maybe, we actually have examined the evidence and arguments from all angles, and with rational, critical thought simply come to the conclusion that it is merely wrong. Often times obviously and comically so.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
92. Why are you referring to this OP -which offers a progressive feminist take on this issue - trolling?
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:10 PM
Feb 2014

This is a democratic board. Feminists, if allied with one of the two major parties, are pretty much all Democrats.

The vast majority of feminists criticize the objectification of women.

Did you refer to the thread celebrating the objectification - posted with no commentary, mind - to be trolling? And if not, why?

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
156. I dispute that there is any value in the way you raised this issue . . .
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:36 PM
Feb 2014

And where you raised it — General Discussion.

I also dispute that there was any real difference between the level of objectification in the 60s vs the present, regardless of how much fabric any given model wore or whether the models were freezing or sweltering.

And while I don't pretend to keep track of all the threads on DU, how many of them are today celebrating 50 year of SI, so that the 'other (progressive)' view is even necessary?

This is your bugaboo, posted in a hostile manner, intended -- in my opinion -- to trigger emotional responses without adding anything but noise to the debate.

Hence trolling.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
161. so you have no problem with objectification, ergo, raising the issue in any form would be a fail for
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:41 PM
Feb 2014

you.

you are saying, feminists do not have the right to speak out about the issue of objectification. in your view.

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
168. No, and it's disingenuous of you to suggest that I said anything like that
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:52 PM
Feb 2014

But the tone of your reply above does highlight a problem I have.

I said your post was a bad idea (e.g., 'trolling') and you counter with the accusation that I want to take your rights away. That's both unfair and unrealistic.

Why didn't you post the same article without adding a threat?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
171. a couple things.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:57 PM
Feb 2014

i am not redqueen. reading your post, yes, i got that you did not feel it was a subject worthy of discussion. i read a post below to another poster, where i better understood what you were saying.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
179. "The vast majority of feminists criticize the objectification of women."
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:23 AM
Feb 2014

How do you know this is true? Do you have any data sets which support this claim?

Even if this were true (and I have no reason to suspect it is), only 24% of women consider themselves feminists. Also problematic with your claim is how many of those 24% would even consider the SI Swimsuit Edition objectifying, not to mention that objectification as a theory has nothing but the flimsiest of evidence between cause and effect.

What seems like a more worthwhile effort is trying to figure out why 70% of women in that survey specifically did not want to identify as feminist. I suspect it has a lot to do with not wanting to associate with people who pretend to speak for them, but really don't.

Just sayin'



sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
203. How many identify as liberals?
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 09:38 AM
Feb 2014

Perhaps the constant right wing war on feminists and women has had some effect. You're making Rush Limbaugh' s argument,minus the obvious "feminazi" insult

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
218. Hardly
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 01:51 PM
Feb 2014

For one thing, I didn't make an argument. I questioned another posters' argument. For another, I'm questioning something other feminists question. Try clicking on the links I provided.

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
158. That's as may be . . .
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:38 PM
Feb 2014

But this post is a red-meat toss intended to start a flame war. While there may or may not be some insight in the ixdaily article cited, redqueen's explanatory note only contributes an insult and a threat.

This is not helpful.

 

Lost_Count

(555 posts)
83. Their purpose is to look pleasant to sell magazines...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 09:59 PM
Feb 2014

It works and everyone is well compensated and there by choice.

Nothing wrong..

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
106. No.. the "myth" is...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:35 PM
Feb 2014

That any of these uncredentialed, unknown bloggers you foolishly regard as oracles actually know what the fuck they're blathering about. Do wake me up if you ever somehow accidentally stumble onto an actual citeable source.

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
121. In the age of the internet
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:58 PM
Feb 2014

you don't have to pay $7 to see a woman artfully concealing a nipple, when you can see streaming video of a woman shoving a pineapple up her arse, for free.

How many magazines can sex sell these days?

 

Lost_Count

(555 posts)
146. Certainly debatable...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:20 PM
Feb 2014

... But it's their choice and money to spend.

If they thought there wasn't financial value of some sort , they'd likely stop.

Every now and then it's ok to forego the pineapple in the ass and just look at sexy.... which of course is also available for free...

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
187. I suspect that once you've eaten pineapple
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:40 AM
Feb 2014

pretty much nothing else but pineapple will do.

The other angle of course is that this is for men whose girlfriends won't let them look at real porn. Just putting that out there.

cliffordu

(30,994 posts)
94. Objectification:
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:11 PM
Feb 2014

Can't propagate a species without it.

And after seeing the fireman calendars my sister, ex-wife and my own mother love to pass around I'd say what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Maybe you're just upset about the scale of commerce and obsession...

Personally, I'd like to help with the bodypaint portion of the magazine.

I've always been good with my hands....

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
95. Um, no. Denigrating one half the human race by portraying them as sex objects has nothing to do
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:12 PM
Feb 2014

with "propagating the species"

cliffordu

(30,994 posts)
108. Denigrating in your opinion
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:39 PM
Feb 2014

And really, that's all we get.

We are exactly alike in that regard. All we have out here is our opinion.
The rest of it, (on the Internet, anyway), is keruffle and sociology 101.

And the basic cliffordu theorem:

'That which can be garishly exploited for money will be'

Ok, I stole that part I think.



On a serious note- when you begin a sentence with 'I'm sure you would agree....' You tip your hat that disagreeing with you isn't acceptable and will be framed as an attack or dismissed ---'We knew THAT one would be along' and that turns your hard earned point into, well, something much less than earnest discussion. But I think you already know that.
And I think it doesn't matter to you. Which indicates something much less wholesome than robust internet discussion.

As usual, my opinions are just that

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
114. LOL. So in your opinion, objectification is great,
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:47 PM
Feb 2014

And I'm a horrible person for daring to try to prevent antifeminist jackasses from posting images intended to harass feminists?

Have I got that right?

cliffordu

(30,994 posts)
147. The pejoratives you employ on my behalf
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:22 PM
Feb 2014

To mark yourself as victim here are a little rich. Even for GD.

And, no, since you asked, you don't have the first fucking thing about what I said right. But you know that.

And if you DON'T know that, mebbe serious discussion of feminist theory in the real world and the dangers of online forums ain't your strong suit. I leave that to the more qualified to glean.

Just because you have a posit don't mean in practice it ain't bogus....



redqueen

(115,103 posts)
105. No, it doesn't, and that's why it's such a powerful statement.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:32 PM
Feb 2014

Reminding us all of women's place in society as sex objects (for as long as, as the MRAs and PUAs like to put it, our "value" lasts); and also of men's place, as the half of humanity with higher status, by virtue of nothing more than not being female.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
107. Don't like it, don't look at it.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:39 PM
Feb 2014

Since it's the best-selling SI pretty much every year, though, I would say that a lot of people like it. On the grand scale of outrages, this one is pretty far down the list for most people. I don't think it's wrong to look at women (or men) whom one finds attractive.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
117. Is it also okay for someone who likes it to say so?
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:49 PM
Feb 2014

Is it okay to think that looking at hot women in a magazine doesn't constitute a sin?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
120. you/others use sin, religion to again, shame and shut women up. it is bullshit. again, speaking out.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:58 PM
Feb 2014

my point. you said dont like dont look. there is another option. dont like speak out.

that simple.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
135. Where did I attempt to use religion to shame anyone?
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:09 PM
Feb 2014

Actually, I thought my comment was quite the opposite. Just for the record, I don't consider it a sin to look at these pictures and consider these women attractive.

Speak out all you want. I suspect SI is grateful for all the free advertisement it gets from OPs like this. Personally, I didn't even know the swimsuit edition was coming out this week until I read about it on DU.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
141. I don't consider it a sin to look at these pictures
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:15 PM
Feb 2014

since you keep telling me you do not see it as a sin, or do i think it is a sin.... that would be where i get religion and your putting me in the fundamental, religious, prude box you and others are so fond of to try and sexually shame me and women that speak out, no different than the other side slut shaming women.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
151. Again, you have every right to speak out.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:24 PM
Feb 2014

I think I have the same right to say that I personally enjoy the cover. Obviously, neither of us will change the other's point of view.

Have a pleasant evening. I'm still recovering from my midnight shifts this week, so I'm going to call it an early night.

Glad to see you back, by the way. I hope you finally got over that nasty bout of bronchitis you had when we last corresponded.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
111. A gross misrepresentation of the opposing argument. Nice try.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:45 PM
Feb 2014

Isn't that usually the case, though? Apparently the alternative to criticizing the animalization and objectification of women is to call the critics prudes.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
118. The most effective kind of oppression conceals its mechanisms and intent.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:49 PM
Feb 2014

You didn't have to use the literal word to imply that critics are prudes.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
125. of course. as when he brings in the snide comment of it being a "sin". well, duh. pretty damn
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:02 PM
Feb 2014

clear what he is saying. as he knows. and was his intent. then feigns surprise it would be interpreted in that manner. well, he expects it to be interpreted in that manner. just do not call it out.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
249. "I don't think it's wrong to look at women (or men) whom one finds attractive."
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 08:05 PM
Feb 2014

Neither do I. Yet I find the "swimsuit issue" largely inane and useless, at best. Imagine that...

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
110. No complaints here
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:43 PM
Feb 2014

Isn't there something more important than complaining about pictures of pretty girls?

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
143. I sent Android a link
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:16 PM
Feb 2014

to 4th's profile.

ETA - people should actually check and compare profiles before they make that kind of insinuation.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
150. Thanks to the kind folks who explained it to me
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:23 PM
Feb 2014

No.
I am not a troll. I don't have the time nor the inclination.
But then, of course, I lack the time to make over 25 posts per day, 7/365 on average for the past ten years.
I'm curious though. Are you saying that if a person is a troll, then it is wrong for people to enjoy pretty women in bikinis? Now that's an odd counter-argument.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
113. Ah, yes, the counter argument. There's always something more important to talk about.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 10:46 PM
Feb 2014

We should talk about it eventually but not now. Not like this. Not with so many terrible things going on. Such bullshit.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
140. It's the outrage of the day, apparently.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:13 PM
Feb 2014

At least we've moved on from the sexism that men supposedly display by opening doors for women.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
250. "...complaining about pictures of pretty girls." Gee, another strawman...
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 08:07 PM
Feb 2014

It's not about sex, and it's not even about sexual imagery per se. It's about how people (women, in this case) are expected to fit into these narrow little boxes when most of them couldn't if they tried.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
127. yes. thank you for agreeing. objectifying women is entirely normal in our world to entertain men.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:04 PM
Feb 2014

hence, women speaking out against it.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
142. To attempt an argument confusing the two is bad form.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:15 PM
Feb 2014

In other words, there are a lot of normative social tendencies that are very far away from being justified or ethical.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
149. The absolutist rhetoric you espouse is an attempt to disambiguate a complex subject...
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:23 PM
Feb 2014

Likely for your own justification. Which is ironic but not surprising.

The sexual objectification of women, to reduce a person to its constituent body parts, is deplorable under almost any condition. Despite your insistence to the contrary.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
155. It is a simple subject
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:32 PM
Feb 2014

There is nothing 'deplorable' about heterosexuality, or lust, or sex. Men lust after women, and women lust after men. It isn't dirty.






Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
160. Power relations and human sexuality are mind bogglingly complex.
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:41 PM
Feb 2014

Your obfuscation is duly noted.

That cartoon carries an important message. The patriarchy oppresses in many forms. Often in ways that seem to be dichotomous or opposite but are nonetheless related at the source.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
174. You seem to believe that lust is dirty
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:04 AM
Feb 2014

or immoral.

"You realize "normal" and "morally upright" are not synonyms, right?"

Anti-male = sexist.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
189. No, I think you haven't actually considered my argument at all.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 04:11 AM
Feb 2014

Which isn't okay but is expected. People use the idea of sexual conquest, especially lust, to justify their narrow sexual domination.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
252. You're trying to refute an argument that hasn't even been made. We call that a strawman.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 08:15 PM
Feb 2014

Yes, "lust" is a natural, animal phenomenon. The capitalist commodification of it is not. See the difference?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
251. "T&A" isn't really the problem. It's making that the centerpiece, to the exclusion of all else.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 08:12 PM
Feb 2014

If it were one magazine, no one would give a shit. And if it were merely a matter of individual desire, no one would give a shit either. It's about how one particular standard of beauty is enforced upon all of society, to the detriment of the majority who will never live up to that image in a million years.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
124. If there were more Asian, South-Asian, or Native women on the cover
Sat Feb 15, 2014, 11:01 PM
Feb 2014

would that be a good thing? Diversify the objectification?

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
185. I wondered that, too. And whether Kate Upton and the other models...
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 01:38 AM
Feb 2014

have any culpability in this (whatever "this" is), or if it's all the fault of oppressive men for enjoying... flesh.

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
173. As Chief Joseph of the Nez Pierce tribe once said
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:02 AM
Feb 2014

I shall comment on the SI cover no more forever.

Enjoy your bickering! Cheers!

cinnabonbon

(860 posts)
182. Thank you for this, RedQ!
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:40 AM
Feb 2014

If the mag hadn't had "sports illustrated" on the outside, I would never have been able to guess that it was supposed to be about sports. At least it was easier to guess in the old days.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
184. Males and females
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 01:05 AM
Feb 2014

have always and will always objectify those they are attracted to.

"The urge to objectify is universal, and so long as it's fairly and respectfully indulged, it isn't offensive, not a problem, and not news." - Dan Savage

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
253. "Fairly and respectfully indulged" is the kicker though. And holding all women to a narrow standard
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 08:19 PM
Feb 2014

of attractiveness doesn't strike me as fair or respectful, quite frankly.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
190. Sexuality is a biological drive, not a social construct designed by the patriarchy
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 04:28 AM
Feb 2014

Nothing is ever going to stop human attractiveness. We start to desire and fantasize about the opposite gender (or sometimes the same gender) during puberty. And that has to do with hormones, not patriarchal conditioning.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
191. If anything the patriarchy has been about repressing sexuality
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 04:39 AM
Feb 2014

There's a good reason why the modern feminist movement is rejecting objectification 'theory'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_wave_feminism#Other_issues

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
196. From everything I've read, sex-positive feminism IS the mainstream
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 07:49 AM
Feb 2014

The sex-negative feminism died mainly with the 2nd wave in early 1990s. There really isn't any mainstream focus with that form of feminism anymore. And women seem to be opening up sexually more and more with the millennial generation, not closing down. And not just women, but men, homosexuals, and transgenders as well.

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)
230. Sports Illustrated isn't a sex-positive feminist publication...
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:52 PM
Feb 2014

A sex-positive feminist magazine would give equal coverage to men's and women's SPORTS and have men's and women's swimsuit issues (or a single issue featuring both men and women).

I don't much care for sex-negative feminism, either. But sex-positive feminism doesn't mean that a magazine that focuses on men's athletic accomplishments and then once a year features some women because they look nice in a bikini is a-okay.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
239. I wasnt saying that it was
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 05:05 PM
Feb 2014

Sports news media in general is incredibly biased towards male sports and male sports fans mainly because men are perceived to make up the vast majority of it's audience. Even networks like ESPN hardly ever say anything about women's sports. SI is sort of pandering here.

But what I was referring to was more about society in general and things that go beyond this magazine. I doubt you'd find any man here or many elsewhere who thinks there is equality in the media. The media is a motherload of inequality and gender stereotypes. And it's not even hidden. Turn on any news channel or pick up any magazine on the rack and you'll see inequality immediately. But much of it has to do with capitalism. It's capitalism that is the evil here, not a woman's sexuality.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
192. I'll make sure I send those three ladies tweets to shame them for their evil ways
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 05:49 AM
Feb 2014

Next time the should wear burkas out in public so men won't look at them.

Much better days for women in America when they had less rights and we could force them to wear one pieces that covered up everything.

Some long for the days of controlling women and until they will just shame them into submission.

Why should they be shamed? Let me list the reasons:

1. They aided men by posing, thus they intentionally worked to hurt all women in the world with their bikinis.

2. They look, what many would call, pretty ( I know, I know- that is a misogynist term and should be stricken from the language). This means others will look at them (men eye rape them all day, women look at them and see victims of great evil who need saving from their looks). These women actually got paid to be looked at and thus stabbed the feminist movement in the back. This great evil deed cannot go unchallenged by the great minds of today.

3. They weren't tricked, they were competing with others for this job. Possibly forced into it because there were no other jobs available (that would be us men, we had a planning session about all this that only affects women models) but they may have not been. They are aiding the idea that some people find women like them attractive and worse yet - and I do mean this is the most insane terrible thing you will find on earth - some looked at them and thought about sex. I know. Makes you want to hit them with a bible. They knew some people might find them sexually appealing and they still did this? What is wrong with people? Don't they know what finding someone sexy does to them?

We should all be upset that human females wear skimpy clothes that men can see. It is unnatural to look at women in such a state. I have been won over to the cause and will work diligently to expose the great conspiracies of our time. People being sexually attracted to one another and enjoying seeing that needs to be addressed and all our energies should focus on this problem (We should join up with Ken Ham, he would probably help).

Maybe we should petition to have all men and women who don't agree with our assessments banned as sexist pigs (because if they don't always agree and act without sin they are women hating sexist members). New members should have a test. Show a photo, like the cover we are talking about, on the sign up page and one of a woman in a burka and ask them to check which one they like best. If they like seeing the bikini lady they are rejected because they support using women and thus hate them all.

Once everyone is banned we will have a nice small group left. Call it history of DU or something.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
202. Except nobody is calling for books to be burned.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 09:33 AM
Feb 2014

If some of you didn't have hyperbole,you'd have nothing.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
206. Wow. Are you fucking seriously comparing a medical procedure that women actually need access to
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 11:29 AM
Feb 2014

to images intended to portray them as playthings?

Your post is literally stomach-churning. It reaches republican levels of ignorance of the issues facing women.



Every time I think I've seen the worst possible thing on this board, someone lowers the bar. Be proud.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
235. I'm saying your desire to abridge the rights of others..
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 03:59 PM
Feb 2014

... is like other people trying to abridge your rights. Tough isn't it, to realize you are just like them, wanting to impose YOUR belief system on others.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
207. Do they even at least do a beefcake cover once a year
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 11:31 AM
Feb 2014

to at least make a lame claim to equal treatment?

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
209. No, why should they? They can fall back on MRA talking points - e.g. that men are objectified
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 11:35 AM
Feb 2014

just as much, equally pressured by society with regard to looks, etc etc etc ad nauseam.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
210. Why would they need to make that claim?
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 11:44 AM
Feb 2014

Their customers couldn't care less. Those who would appreciate the attempt are outside their demographic.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
211. Gay men don't like sports? Really? Or wait, is it just that nobody by white straight men matters?
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 11:48 AM
Feb 2014

Yes, yes that must be it. 50 years and TWO women of color.

It's really sad that so many people on this board are just flat-out unwilling (I can't help desperately hoping it's not seriously a case of a lack of ability) to recognize the bigotry being displayed and defended.

Of course, bigotry against women is still super fucking popular, so that one - well hardly anyone expects that most will get it.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
215. Of course they do...but it's a matter of readership numbers.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:45 PM
Feb 2014

SI's readership is, i have little doubt, overwhelmingly composed of heterosexual males. These heterosexual males are probably starting to skew towards an older average age, too (as print media continues to decline among younger age groups). Somewhat older heterosexual males tend to respond positively towards that sort of sexual objectification of women (and most often see nothing wrong with it). That' s fucked up on multiple levels...but that doesn't change the bottom line.

Regardless of other sociological factors involved, the overwhelming big factor in this is money...the national religion of plutocratic America.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
240. Women don't like sports?
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 07:24 PM
Feb 2014

Or, they admit they only want to reach misogynistic men? How dumb to limit your market when it could be so much bigger. I thought people like that wanted to make money. There are more women than men. Maybe women would buy their magazine. all they have to do is change one annual cover.

Upton

(9,709 posts)
241. SI subscribers can opt out of the Swimsuit edition..
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 07:30 PM
Feb 2014

problem solved for those who don't want to see it but still want the magazine..

Upton

(9,709 posts)
213. Equal treatment?
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:02 PM
Feb 2014

The Swimsuit edition is market driven..it's literally a $1 billion business. People buy it.

But for Time Inc., the publication's parent company, the Swimsuit Issue means something more: a billion-dollar business that's bigger than the sports magazine that spawned it.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/business-facts-about-the-sports-illustrated-swimsuit-issue-2013-2#ixzz2tV8xb7BP


If a beefcake issue was that profitable you can be sure SI would put it out..
 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
216. These discussions always go the same way.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 01:00 PM
Feb 2014

Someone points out that the pervasive sexualised objectification of women in our media-driven culture is unhealthy and reinforces a lot of ugly things; the same half-dozen people (who oddly enough are all male) turn up to say "but you're being a prude for not embracing a body-positive message of healthy sexuality! Why do you hate women?"; to cherrypick the 5% of images that consist of shirtless male models ("Look! Here's David Beckham on a Calvin Klein billboard! See? Men are objectified too!&quot to dismiss the issue via false equivalence; and to appropriate third-wave feminist "sex-positivity" to say "but what if they're fine with being objectified? that makes it okay!" (while being completely ignorant of some mainstream feminst movements against precisely this sort of sexualised objectification, mostly in the UK; see here and here for instance).

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
221. There are also a handful of women cheering them on,
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:09 PM
Feb 2014

if not participating personally.

It is almost all men, though, it's true. Not surprisingly.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
244. yep...
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 01:00 AM
Feb 2014

It's like they are obsessed with defending the right they seem to think they have, to have limitless, public access to --crude word that would start a disingenuous conflagration-- material. They're so defensive as to become irrational and incapable of reading while scrambling to defend their "rights".

Women aren't trying to take away their right to --crude word that would start a disingenuous conflagration--.

We just wish they would stop insisting they have a right to --crude word that would start a disingenuous conflagration-- in our faces!

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
256. bigtime.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 08:31 PM
Feb 2014

This isn't ok.

I'm thinking about what could be done. Admin is taking a hands off approach. (Check ATA for a recent, superb, post. Can't think of the poster's name right now, sorry)

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
257. I can't think of an easy answer, really. There's so much ambiguity, so much "plausible deniability"
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 09:16 PM
Feb 2014

around some of these issues - which doesn't even get into certain posters' habit of constructing enormous and highly flammable strawmen ("you hate men/sex" etc. etc.) - that I don't know if we can even get people to quit it with the disingenuousness, let alone come to any kind of agreement or truce.

As much as I try not to "take sides" most of the time around here, sometimes the unfair treatment of (for example) HoF members is so blatant that it's impossible even for me to ignore.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
258. I agree. the malicious behavior is so blatant.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 09:29 PM
Feb 2014

Yes, and ambiguity....sometimes the post is a small problem compared to the usual suspects who get away with spewing. Because they use all the typical dysfunctional covers for their hostility.

What's even more infuriating is that so many fall for it.

Anyway, if admin won't do anything (I am sure that if the sexism trolls were playing racism games instead, they'd be seen for what they are, and booted.), then maybe it's best to push for a mass ignore campaign.

If no one bites, maybe that would dissuade them?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
260. Like the kid who gets bullied, and then gets in trouble for responding to the bully.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:11 PM
Feb 2014

Much the same dynamic at work here. Which really makes me wonder about certain DUers' maturity level...

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
220. It was brought to my attention that some intellectual dishonesty was being directed at me personally
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:06 PM
Feb 2014

in this thread.

I have the people engaging in this particular example of faux-news style mendacity on ignore, so I'm just gonna post this here. Which apparently (and importantly) I had posted before they started playing their games:



67. I guess it was just a dig at trumad after all. It's nice to be reminded of examples of people

who learn and grow over time. I know I have. I used to be quite the pro-objectification liberal feminist. I used to think if we could just objectify more men, everything would be equal and all that.

I got a huge wake up call when one particular liberal man showed his ass, and made it crystal clear that simply showing more mostly naked hot men cannot balance any scales. The only way to change society is to stop indoctrinating women to view themselves as objects, and stop indoctrinating men to view them as such.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4506933




It's sad how a few people here are so desperate to protect this form of male privilege that they'll engage in such blatantly rightwing tactics.

William769

(55,147 posts)
227. Trust me when I say "such blatantly rightwing tactics are not just directed at you.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:16 PM
Feb 2014

It seems to be common place on DU use what you posted as an example or what is said about Hillary another female (hint) or even at the LGBT community (BTW which some are even drinking the fucking kool-aid).

I have never been so disappointed in so many DU members as I have recently.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
228. Oh yes, you're exactly right.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 02:19 PM
Feb 2014

It's now sadly commonplace here, there is no doubt.

It's just amazing to see it done in the same very thread in which the context is so crystal clear.

Shameless...

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
245. I saw the posts. dredge up someone's past behaviors as if it would smear them.
Mon Feb 17, 2014, 01:06 AM
Feb 2014

whew. I wanted to reply but was stunned into inarticulate disgust. rightwing tactics, indeed.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
259. It's 50 years of marketing success.
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 09:32 PM
Feb 2014

It's capitalism. The women who posed for those photo shoots were no doubt happy for the $$$$. I highly doubt they were feeling oppressed.

And just to be clear, I don't feel oppressed by it, either.

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