General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue : 50 Years of Women's Objectification
Over the years, the models on the covers have been wearing less and less fabric ; its not even trying to pretend its about fashion anymore. It already had nothing to do in a sports magazine aimed at men in the first place, now its barely feeding off the momentum of each year release and the so-called making of new supermodels.
The very treatment of the womens image is terrible. The first covers and spreads in the 60s and 70s had a great focus on the landscape and featured some actual fashion. Now the shots are way more focused on the models, which are nearly naked and are featured taking off what is left on their body. We hear all the time how Tyra Banks was the first Black woman to make the cover of the Swimsuit Issue ; well guess what ? She is the only one to date, apart from Beyoncé who appeared on the 2006 covers. And no Asian, no South-Asian, no Native.
Also whats up with shooting a model in fucking Antarctica ? Kate Upton has commented on how the shoot was horribly hard; she said she experienced eyesight and hearing lost afterwards because her body was freaking shutting down. Worse, the results were so underwhelming : it looked like it was shot in front of a green screen. Not even worth almost killing a model. Oops.
...
http://www.ixdaily.com/drop-your-skirt/sports-illustrated-swimsuit-issue-50-years-womens-objectification
Just thought the other (progressive) side of this issue deserved an OP of its own.
And I fully expect for one of the usual suspects to start posting pics in here to antagonize feminists, so if you do, don't think you're being original or clever. Using images depicting objectification to harass feminists isn't new or intelligent.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)It has nothing to do with sports. Why do they even make it (other than for the obvious pubescent titillation)?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's apparently supposed to be a gap-filler when there's no sports to cover. Which is odd, since I'm pretty sure there's ALWAYS sports going on.
Also, having attractive breasts is equal to having skill in playing a sport. So it's practically the same, I guess?
I must say it's an amusing experience, as a man, to be mansplained towards. I was expecting the question, "do you even lift, bro?" to come up.
JI7
(89,251 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)JI7
(89,251 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)JI7
(89,251 posts)my reply was to the post which said the reason for the swimsuit cover was because of no sports at the time. i was referring to a statement made specifically about the cover.
i didn't say they did not report anything about the olympics.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)For starters, SI generally only reports on major, professional sports. And, back when the swimsuit issue premiered, all 4 of the major, American pro sports leagues had much shorter seasons than they do now. The result being, none of the 4 majors had anything scheduled in February. Since, in the intervening years, the swimsuit rdition has proven to be particularly popular and, yes, profitable, as well as becoming a major launching pad for the careers of many supermodels, it has evolved beyond it's original incarnation.
fishwax
(29,149 posts)They had shorter seasons then, sure, but the finals still weren't until April. Also, for the record, the first swimsuit issue was in January anyway. It didn't move to February until the late 1970s.
The yarn about it coming about because there wasn't enough sports to cover is oft-repeated, but never really made much sense, in my opinion. The NBA and NHL are both in play, as is college basketball. Besides, the first issue only had a few pages of swimsuits. It isn't like they were really relying on it for content in the midst of a sports-barren landscape. Hell, a lot of the issues in the 1960s and 1970s came out the same weekend as the Super Bowl. So they probably could have found something to write about, had they wanted to.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)local TV ABC affiilate in New Haven...
dsc
(52,162 posts)both basketball and hockey have vastly longer seasons now than they did in the 50's. Football also has a longer season now than it did.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I wasn't exacgtly a gym rat in high school... but... there are varieties of competitive athletics besides basketball, hockey, and football, yes? For instance... boxing? Pretty sure that's a year-round thing - it was back when the firs swimsuit issue came out. I know there's lacrosse which I guess counts as a sport
Point is there's really not any reason for there to be a "gap" in sports journalism, because yes, there actually is always something to cover. Somehow the sports pages of newspapers all over the nation manage it.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Sports are on everywhere all the time.
I'm very confused by that.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Hell, we could get sports AND treating women as objects this time of year, with a little internationalism.
Meet Finland:
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)DreamGypsy
(2,252 posts)...from UltraRunning:
(see Notes below)
04-Jan-2014 Neusiok Trail Run Havelock, NC 100km 1 3 http://www.neusioktrailrun.com
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04-Jan-2014 Watchung Winter Ultra - 50K Mountainside, NJ 50km 3 3 http://njtrailseries.com/watchung
04-Jan-2014 Frozen Sasquatch Trail Race Kanawha State Forest, WV 50km 3 3 http://www.wvmtr.org/events/frozen-sasquatch-trail-50k25k/
04-Jan-2014 2nd Annual Wild Azalea Trail Challenge Woodworth, LA 50miles 2 3
04-Jan-2014 2014 PHUNT 50K Elkton, MD 50km 3 3 http://www.traildawgs.org
04-Jan-2014 The Pistol Ultra Run Alcoa, TN 100miles 1 1 http://www.pistolultra.com
04-Jan-2014 The Pistol Ultra Run Alcoa, TN 100km 1 1 http://www.pistolultra.com
04-Jan-2014 The Pistol Ultra Run Alcoa, TN 50km 1 1 http://www.pistolultra.com
11-Jan-2014 Frozen Gnome 50K/10K Trail Races Crystal Lake, IL 50km 3 3 http://ultrasignup.com/register.aspx?did=24430
11-Jan-2014 San Tan Scramblem Queen Creek, AZ 50km 2 3 http://www.aravaiparunning.com/san-tan-scramble/
11-Jan-2014 Crystal Springs Trail Run Woodside, CA 50km 3 3 http://www.coastaltrailruns.com/cs_wntr_crystal_springs.html
12-Jan-2014 Run for Regis 50K Cleveland, OH 50km 2 3 http://runforregis.blogspot.com/
12-Jan-2014 Two Bays Trail Run Dromana, Victoria Australia 56 km 3 3 http://www.twobaystrailrun.com/
18-Jan-2014 H.U.R.T. Trail 100 Mile Endurance Run Honolulu, HI 100miles 5 5 http://www.hurt100trailrace.com/
18-Jan-2014 24hrs of HOSTELity Dahlonega, GA 24hour 1 2 http://www.dumassevents.com
18-Jan-2014 Long Haul 100 Wesley Chapel, FL 100miles 1 2 http://longhaul100.com/
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18-Jan-2014 Wilson Creek Frozen 50k Melba, ID 50km 4 3 http://emilyberriochoa.com/Frozen50k
18-Jan-2014 Capitol Peak Mega Fat Ass Olympia, WA 55 km 3 3 https://capitolpeakultras.com/Mega_Fat_Ass.html
18-Jan-2014 Steep Ravine Trail Run Stinson Beach, CA 50km 3 3 http://www.coastaltrailruns.com/sr_steep_ravine.html
18-Jan-2014 Pacifica Foothills Trail Run Pacifica, CA USA 50km 3 3 http://www.insidetrail.com/ai1ec_event/pacifica-foothills-trail-run/
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01-Feb-2014 The Pilgrim Challenge 2012 Multistage (2 Day) Ultra Farnham, Surrey UK 66 miles 3 3 http://www.xnrg.co.uk/pilgrim2014.htm
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08-Feb-2014 Golden Gate Trail Run Sausalito, CA 50km 3 3 http://www.coastaltrailruns.com/gg_golden_gate.html
08-Feb-2014 Mill Stone 50K Fort Mill, SC United States 50km 2 3 http://www.rockhillstriders.org
08-Feb-2014 Mid-Maryland Ultra 50k and Relay Elkridge, MD United States 50km 2 3 http://bullseyerunning.com/
15-Feb-2014 Iron Horse 100 Mile Endurance Run Florahome, FL USA 100miles 1 2 http://www.ironhorse100kmclub.com
15-Feb-2014 Black Canyon Trail Mayer, AZ 100km 3 3 http://www.aravaiparunning.com/black-canyon/
15-Feb-2014 Little Su 50K Big Lake, AK 50km 1 5 http://www.susitna100.com
15-Feb-2014 Susitna 100 Big Lake, AK 100miles 1 5 http://susitna100.com
15-Feb-2014 Black Warrior.Phillip Parker Trail Runs Moulton, AL 50km 2 3 http://www.blackwarrior50k.com
15-Feb-2014 Jackpot Ultra Running Festival Las Vegas, NV 100miles 2 2 http://www.beyondlimitsrunning.com
15-Feb-2014 Jackpot Ultra Running Festival Las Vegas, NV 24hour 2 2 http://www.beyondlimitsrunning.com
15-Feb-2014 Jackpot Ultra Running Festival Las Vegas, NV 12hour 2 2 http://www.beyondlimitsrunning.com
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15-Feb-2014 Moab Red Hot 55k/33k Moab, UT 50km 3 4 http://grassrootsevents.net/home/moabs-red-hot-55k-33k/
16-Feb-2014 Sahara Race (Jordan) Cairo, Petra, Jordan 250 km 2 4 http://www.4deserts.com/sahararace/
16-Feb-2014 Destin Beach Ultra Runs Destin, FL 50 km 1 2 http://www.beachultra.com
16-Feb-2014 Chilly Cupid 50k Fatass Cambellsport, WI 50km 2 3 https://www.facebook.com/events/472136432905436/
Notes:
1. In the ultrarunning community the term 'Fatass' does have the same meaning as might be applied to a cover of Sports Illustrated.
2. The terms ultrarun (an event) and ultrarunning (a sport) are derived from the term ultramarathon which means:
An ultramarathon (also called ultra distance) is any sporting event involving running and walking longer than the traditional marathon length of 42.195 kilometres (26.219 mi).
...but there is much friendly discussion in the community of the bounds of 'longer' and 'arduous' that are required for a 'real ultra'.
3. Unlike most of the sports covered in Sports Illustrated, ultrarunning is a participant sport and not a spectator sport (watching someone circle a 400 meter track for six days or three thousand miles can get just a little boring). Not surprising that S.I. chooses racey covers over covering ultra races.
4. Ultrarunning is essentially a non-professional sport. Although some prizes have crept into the sport in the recent years, the monetary value is generally equivalent to about a 12 second slice of the annual compensation for a typical professional football quarterback. And even the Ironman(woman) winning prize is now $250K; nothing like that in ultrarunning of which I am aware. The real reward in ultrarunning is the joy of one long journey through nature in the company of friends, the satisfaction of completing that challenge, and the anticipation of the next adventure.
5. Ultrarunning is a very egalitarian sport. Old, young, female, male, whatever. For example, check out the AGE GROUP AND OVERALL COURSE RECORDS for Badwater, the now 135 mile run out and back from Lone Pine to Death Valley and then up to Whitney Portal: women ages 28 to 64 (with a 63 year old under 48 hours) and men ages 19 to 75 (with a 70 year old under 40 hours).
Anyway, enough self-indulgence on my favorite sport.
Sports Illustrated is a typical corporate commercial conglomerate rag whose only goal is to play the game and suck money out of pockets into their coffers and into the coffers of the corporate conglomerate spectator sports teams on which they report. And many, many people buy that, including its soft porn, exploitative corners. Oh, well.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I found it to be a completely ludicrous explanation. Apparently this person thinks "sports" ends at the super bowl and doesn't pick up until Baseball season starts.
Basically if it doesn't sell gatorade, it's not a sport, I guess.
DreamGypsy
(2,252 posts)...and wasn't ranting at you, just to the vacuum.
BTW, ultrarunning sells lots...well, a lot of, sports drinks, electrolyte supplements, and energy products relative to the size of the market.
But, gatorade???
That went out of fashion about the same time as 'swimming' attire, men's and women's, that didn't give you a wedgie.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I didn't know sodium-laced kool-aid had waned in popularity!
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)But likely athletics. I do not totally agree but I do think there is a difference betwen sports
and athletics
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)young beauties. Of course I am a math teacher and not a marketeer, but...
Lost_Count
(555 posts)Which do you think will sell the most magazines?
redqueen
(115,103 posts)My answers are in this subthread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024498713#post515
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)But I'm still confused.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)but that was many years ago.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Equality all around .lol. /sarc
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)But I'm not complaining.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)So...
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)But, you know, stuff like that can be free online in other places.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Too bad it does not have equal effect.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)to be hunted and caught, sometimes wounded, and not quite fully human - like an animal.
Reminds me of that one asshole who had his pickup truck bed liner painted in a way that made it look like there was a woman tied up and gagged in the bed of the truck.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Thank you.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Isn't life grande?
Whisp
(24,096 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Women would NEVER play men for sport, ever! It never happens!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Like apples and Phillips head screws.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Renew Deal
(81,861 posts)It was always one of their big promotions to drive subscriptions.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)and baseball (Apr 8 or so)
fishwax
(29,149 posts)often played the same weekend the swimsuit issue came out in the 60s and 70s. So there were a few sports available, for the truly dedicated
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Sex sells magazines.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts).
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)a teen. I didn't buy SI because of the swimsuit edition. I hardly paid attention to the addition, I loved sports more. My favorite editions were the ones that covered the Olympics, particularly the Summer Games.
TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)hlthe2b
(102,285 posts)female athletes engaged in their sport--not posed in sexually suggestive poses, but just showing their innate physicality and the beauty of sport.
What a gift THAT would be for our daughters (and sons, for that matter).
redqueen
(115,103 posts)But the issue is not about respecting women, it's about objectifying them... so that would be changing the entire reason for the issue.
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)One of the greatest female athletes ever- Jackie Joyner-Kersee. By Annie Liebovitz
Born on March 3, 1962, in East St. Louis, Illinois, Jackie Joyner-Kersee was the first American to win gold for the long jump and the first woman to earn more than 7,000 points in the seven-event heptathlon. She's ultimately won three golds, a silver and two bronze, making her the most decorated female athlete in Olympic track and field history. She's gone on to advocate for children.
snip
In 1986, Joyner-Kersee married her coach, Bob Kersee. He also trained Joyner-Kersee's sister-in-law, the late track star Florence Joyner. Bob came under media speculation in 1988, when Florence Joyner improved her times in the 100-meter run, 200-meter run and 4-by-100 meter relayand took gold medals in all three eventsat the 1988 Olympics. Many people questioned Bob's training techniques and suggested that he could have been encouraging his runners to use performance-enhancing drugs. In the late 1990s, Bob became a volunteer member of UCLA's track and field coaching staffa position he has held for more than a decade.
A sufferer of exercise-induced asthma, Joyner-Kersee officially retired from track and field in 2001 at age 38. Following her retirement, she founded the Jackie Joyner-Kersee Youth Center Foundation, which is aimed at encouraging youth in her underprivileged hometown to play sports.
more
http://www.biography.com/people/jackie-joyner-kersee-9358710
This is how she was portrayed on the cover of SI
How SI has deteriorated when picturing women as athletes. To now picking models as eye candy and objects. Is SI the new Hustler Magazine! It is meant to titillate and sell as many magazines as possible. It's humiliating.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)they don't routinely sexualize them.
This annual celebration of objectification used to at least make a faint attempt at pretending it was somehow related to sports, but that ended long ago.
me b zola
(19,053 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)and 20 years old.
hlthe2b
(102,285 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Is there anything that you'll post in this thread that you haven't already said in the other?
As far as Kate Upton goes, I suspect she was paid more than the average crab fisherman gets for the same discomfort.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)"So what if you damn near died so we could center-frame your tits at the south pole? You got paid didn't ya?!"
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If they didn't tell her or her publicist that they'd be shooting swimsuit photos in antarctica, then yeah, you have a point, but if she simply hadn't brushed up on her geography recently, then no.
JI7
(89,251 posts)being uncomfortable due to cold.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)JI7
(89,251 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)In between shivering in a bathing suit, Upton was able to soak up the Antarctic scenery.
It was the most beautiful place Ive ever been, she said. Before I took off my coat, I would just enjoy the views. The mountains were pink and the water was glass. It was like little ice cubes were in the water. It was gorgeous.
Far be it from me to suggest not taking a bloggers statements as gospel.
JI7
(89,251 posts)can working there rather than not having that job at all.
doesn't mean standards should not be better.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I doubt that her health and wellbeing were at meaningful risk.
JI7
(89,251 posts)so are saying any risk to her health is ok because she has something that you don't have.
it's just fucking weird.
but people do it often when they complain about unions who want more because they themselves aren't making as much.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I'm suggesting that 21 year old millionaire models from Florida with a blanket-wielding entourage may lack expertise in "almost frostbite".
JI7
(89,251 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Kate Upton was the most valuable person on the boat.
Hey! I have an idea! Let's throw a multimillionaire supermodel out on an ice floe and photograph her while she freezes to death! I bet we'll get lots of good pictures! and advertisers!
I don't doubt that it was a challenging modeling gig, and she has a reason to be proud that it came out well. Life threatening? No.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)....you just went THERE?
LOL.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)She says she was caught by surprise. And she says her health suffered from it. Is there any reason to belittle her? Tell you what; you stand naked on a boat in the Antarctic for a several-our photo shoot, tell me how well you do.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)... but there was no crew nearby to smother me with blankets every sixty seconds.
I suspect that "almost got frostbite!" is hyperbole and I also suspect that the blogger quoted by the OP knows it.
I don't think that the "workplace safety" angle as a criticism of super-modeling is going to lend much traction.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's not just that Antarctica is polar. Antarctica also has no warm-water currents; they're blocked off by the circumpolar current that surrounds the continent. There's also not much by way of windbreak anywhere in the place; the tallest things outside the mountains (which are nowhere near the coast / ice shelves) are birds that are four feet tall if they stretch. So there's the wind chill.
Blankets? Okay. here, let me show you something.
That is a picture of people on an Antarctica tour. They are dressed in multiple layers of clothing designed for very low temperatures. This clothing is supplied, in this case, by the national Geographic society, and I have to imagine the NGS knows how to equip people for that. You know what? all of those people in that picture are still cold. They're going to hike around and take pictures for maybe 30 minutes before being shuttled back to that ship where they will hide out in warmed cabins and thaw out while talking about penguins. And this is a springtime picture in the South Georgia Islands, which is basically Antarctica's version of a tropical getaway. So yeah... cold place.
Blankets... really aren't going to cut the mustard. especially not over the course of hours. While I'm sure the people around her made all the efforts they could to keep Kate warm, what she describes is completely inadequate for the conditions. There's also just the consideration of how the industry works - you want to get as many shots, as quickly as you can, but the shoot can still take hours upon hours.
The problem is just that the human body doesn't withstand Antarctica very well - it's the one place humans have never settled, and for good reasons. it doesn't matter that each instance of Upton's exposure to the weather was as brief as the crew could make it - it was still exposure. Exposure is cumulative, if you're not taking time to fully recover from it. And in fact alternating from warm to cold to warm to cold again can make it worse. Here we have a woman who is doing nude photo shoots in the most inhospitable place with breathable air on the planet, and all that's standing between her and becoming an ice sculpture is some interns with quilts.
And you want to call her a liar, on the basis that she's a model? Really?
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Let's ask Kate.
"Everything's changed," she said, reflecting back a year. "I have so many opportunities now with different clients and I think for me what's really exciting is now I get to choose which clients I work with, so I can do products or shoots that I really love and I really believe in."
Has anyone thought to ask her or her stock broker if she's feeling exploited?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)"I want to see a doctor's note," remember?
Do keep up.
drmeow
(5,018 posts)Soundman
(297 posts)Where is the hat? That is just plain silly. Guess you have never seen how people are outfitted for really cold weather eh? You might want to try a different pic if you want to be taken semi seriously.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)JI7
(89,251 posts)as a way to try to help their career . and it still doesn't excuse the health risks. this is why we oppose sweatshops and other things.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)for Al Franken and other liberal nerds. Not necessarily me, though that would be fun.
flvegan
(64,408 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)These covers aren't hard to find either.
Thanks for showing your true colors, not that anyone was under any illusions.
flvegan
(64,408 posts)No illusions at all.
I appreciate the enlightenment about the proliferation of porn on the net. I don't really participate in viewing it as I find it often objectifies women, and an uncomfortable amount of it smacks of violence to me.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)which is the SI Swimsuit edition as being "outrage fail" on the part of "the bikini hater brigade".
Something sure smacks of something.
flvegan
(64,408 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)It seems like this is complained about every year and yet every year another issue goes to print. I understand your upset over it but year after year getting upset has not ended up in much of a result. I posted to you because you seem to be the most upset over this particular issue.
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)on a fifty year anniversary they could actually cover beautiful WOMEN athletes. What's wrong with discussing this issue?
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I am sorry I didn't realize it was the 50th Year Anniversary. Perhaps having the original cover which I would assume would be much more modest might have been a cool idea. See how it was back in the day when respect for woman was important. Today many feel woman are objectified.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)This is nothing new. And respect for women was not any more important 50 years ago than it is now. It's considered important by some, treated as a laughable notion by many, and barely given more than a passing thought by most (and by that I mean most people don't even understand the concept of objectification, and they're perfectly happy not knowing much about it).
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Your post is very good.
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)The anniversary issue is what have people talking about it.
Carry on.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)It's called raising awareness, and the only way it will change is if more people bother to recognize how fucked up it is to objectify women this way.
If nobody speaks out (or as you minimized it 'gets upset') nothing will ever change, and that is simply not an option.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)You do seem peeved by this cover. Another DU'er mentioned the 50th Anniversary. I thought putting the original cover on the issue might be cool. You could compare the time when woman were respected 100 percent and compare it to today where woman are objectified. It would be neat to compare at least.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)but I have to say these recent posts are confusing me.
You are saying that women were respected 100 percent of the time back then. Is that sarcasm?
Are you referring to the fact that portraying women as sex objects wasn't 24/7 in your face all the time and society wasn't yet thoroughly pornified back then?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)environment for fellow duers....
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Texasgal
(17,045 posts)Geez.
This is getting silly.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)and refused to answer my question about whether it was acceptable for you to be called the same?
Look, I think before you start accusing other DUers of a hostile environment, you ought to consider that you have been far more sexist towards me than any man on this board.
me b zola
(19,053 posts)RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Sports Illustrated really launched my career, and I have a lot to thank them for, Upton said. I feel like Im on the top right now. Im really excited. I just want to enjoy this moment.
http://www.today.com/style/kate-upton-antarctic-shoot-si-my-body-was-shutting-down-1C8341178
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Thanks for adding your thoughtful commentary.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)yesterday it was something about jealousy.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Not all the people showing their ass in these threads are doing so literally.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Squinch
(50,954 posts)RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)You're such a voice for women!
Ptah
(33,030 posts)I like it... Swimming is a great sport and why not show swimwear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12043066
Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue 2012 Cover revealed-Upton--- I had no idea!
Hey --- if this group can have a fucking Dog Show thread..............
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12046812
redqueen
(115,103 posts)The personal vendettas around here are so fucking tiresome. I hope this isn't more of that crap.
It would sure be nice if we could just discuss the issue in the OP.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)who learn and grow over time. I know I have. I used to be quite the pro-objectification liberal feminist. I used to think if we could just objectify more men, everything would be equal and all that.
I got a huge wake up call when one particular liberal man showed his ass, and made it crystal clear that simply showing more mostly naked hot men cannot balance any scales. The only way to change society is to stop indoctrinating women to view themselves as objects, and stop indoctrinating men to view them as such.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)and also in lesser loud venues...should be in office politics, in college classes, in any and every government office across the land...loud and clear.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Everywhere it's encountered, it has to be called out. That's the only way to keep momentum moving forward. We *do not* want a repeat of the backsliding of the 90's and 00's.
Ptah
(33,030 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)I don't much care about your obsession with trumad, in case you hadn't noticed. This thread isn't about trumad.
Ptah
(33,030 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)post 20, reply to post 12
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7492172#7494042
Post 136, reply to post 112
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2139260
Objectification.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)and drooling over shirtless celebrities.
etc.
seaglass
(8,171 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)I do find it amazing, what would pass for an open mind, though.
seaglass
(8,171 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)seaglass
(8,171 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Frankly, the shit list at HoF looks like the roster of the All Star Game.
seaglass
(8,171 posts)to either the group as a whole or individuals in the group. Not sure how any productive conversation can come about when people are hostile. It's one of the reasons I won't participate in your group - in addition to it being your safe haven as HoF is for the members there.
All Star roster - that characterizations is pretty damn funny. We are in sad shape if that is DU's cream of the crop - present company excluded of course.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Back then I probably would have thought, "Wowsa". But tonight I will not comment on them, due to my enlightenment in the intervening years.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Soundman
(297 posts)The hypocrisy, it burns!!!!!
Upton
(9,709 posts)Besides the obvious hypocrisy, I thought she was an Arsenal fan..
opiate69
(10,129 posts)Being trotted out as a font of great wisdom.
Obvious pseudo-intellectualism is obvious.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)MadrasT
(7,237 posts)You seem to misunderstand why people quote bloggers.
It isn't to try to "prove" something or an attempt to add credibility to an opinion. Many of these debates aren't able to be proven scientifically and never will be.
The point of quoting a blogger is because you found something someone else wrote, and you appreciate the way they've explained something, you agree with the point of view, and it saves you the trouble of writing the same damn thing all over again.
That's it.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)The fact that the people who post them have proven time and time again that they will suffer no dissent, because they are, in their view, here for no other reason but to "educate" the rest of us. These articles are continually posted with the obvious subject of being some sort of "wisdom from on high". Legitimate criticism of these articles is almost universally met with a resounding chorus of "you obviously don't understand the concept", or some variation thereon. It never once cross their minds that maybe, just maybe, we actually have examined the evidence and arguments from all angles, and with rational, critical thought simply come to the conclusion that it is merely wrong. Often times obviously and comically so.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)This is a democratic board. Feminists, if allied with one of the two major parties, are pretty much all Democrats.
The vast majority of feminists criticize the objectification of women.
Did you refer to the thread celebrating the objectification - posted with no commentary, mind - to be trolling? And if not, why?
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)And where you raised it General Discussion.
I also dispute that there was any real difference between the level of objectification in the 60s vs the present, regardless of how much fabric any given model wore or whether the models were freezing or sweltering.
And while I don't pretend to keep track of all the threads on DU, how many of them are today celebrating 50 year of SI, so that the 'other (progressive)' view is even necessary?
This is your bugaboo, posted in a hostile manner, intended -- in my opinion -- to trigger emotional responses without adding anything but noise to the debate.
Hence trolling.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)you.
you are saying, feminists do not have the right to speak out about the issue of objectification. in your view.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)But the tone of your reply above does highlight a problem I have.
I said your post was a bad idea (e.g., 'trolling') and you counter with the accusation that I want to take your rights away. That's both unfair and unrealistic.
Why didn't you post the same article without adding a threat?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i am not redqueen. reading your post, yes, i got that you did not feel it was a subject worthy of discussion. i read a post below to another poster, where i better understood what you were saying.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)How do you know this is true? Do you have any data sets which support this claim?
Even if this were true (and I have no reason to suspect it is), only 24% of women consider themselves feminists. Also problematic with your claim is how many of those 24% would even consider the SI Swimsuit Edition objectifying, not to mention that objectification as a theory has nothing but the flimsiest of evidence between cause and effect.
What seems like a more worthwhile effort is trying to figure out why 70% of women in that survey specifically did not want to identify as feminist. I suspect it has a lot to do with not wanting to associate with people who pretend to speak for them, but really don't.
Just sayin'
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Perhaps the constant right wing war on feminists and women has had some effect. You're making Rush Limbaugh' s argument,minus the obvious "feminazi" insult
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)For one thing, I didn't make an argument. I questioned another posters' argument. For another, I'm questioning something other feminists question. Try clicking on the links I provided.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Renew Deal
(81,861 posts)Redqueen is a long time and good DUer.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)But this post is a red-meat toss intended to start a flame war. While there may or may not be some insight in the ixdaily article cited, redqueen's explanatory note only contributes an insult and a threat.
This is not helpful.
Lost_Count
(555 posts)It works and everyone is well compensated and there by choice.
Nothing wrong..
redqueen
(115,103 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)That any of these uncredentialed, unknown bloggers you foolishly regard as oracles actually know what the fuck they're blathering about. Do wake me up if you ever somehow accidentally stumble onto an actual citeable source.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)you don't have to pay $7 to see a woman artfully concealing a nipple, when you can see streaming video of a woman shoving a pineapple up her arse, for free.
How many magazines can sex sell these days?
Lost_Count
(555 posts)... But it's their choice and money to spend.
If they thought there wasn't financial value of some sort , they'd likely stop.
Every now and then it's ok to forego the pineapple in the ass and just look at sexy.... which of course is also available for free...
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)pretty much nothing else but pineapple will do.
The other angle of course is that this is for men whose girlfriends won't let them look at real porn. Just putting that out there.
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)Can't propagate a species without it.
And after seeing the fireman calendars my sister, ex-wife and my own mother love to pass around I'd say what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Maybe you're just upset about the scale of commerce and obsession...
Personally, I'd like to help with the bodypaint portion of the magazine.
I've always been good with my hands....
redqueen
(115,103 posts)with "propagating the species"
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)And really, that's all we get.
We are exactly alike in that regard. All we have out here is our opinion.
The rest of it, (on the Internet, anyway), is keruffle and sociology 101.
And the basic cliffordu theorem:
'That which can be garishly exploited for money will be'
Ok, I stole that part I think.
On a serious note- when you begin a sentence with 'I'm sure you would agree....' You tip your hat that disagreeing with you isn't acceptable and will be framed as an attack or dismissed ---'We knew THAT one would be along' and that turns your hard earned point into, well, something much less than earnest discussion. But I think you already know that.
And I think it doesn't matter to you. Which indicates something much less wholesome than robust internet discussion.
As usual, my opinions are just that
redqueen
(115,103 posts)And I'm a horrible person for daring to try to prevent antifeminist jackasses from posting images intended to harass feminists?
Have I got that right?
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)To mark yourself as victim here are a little rich. Even for GD.
And, no, since you asked, you don't have the first fucking thing about what I said right. But you know that.
And if you DON'T know that, mebbe serious discussion of feminist theory in the real world and the dangers of online forums ain't your strong suit. I leave that to the more qualified to glean.
Just because you have a posit don't mean in practice it ain't bogus....
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Do not grasp things with their brain.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)undeterred
(34,658 posts)Its just masturbation material.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Reminding us all of women's place in society as sex objects (for as long as, as the MRAs and PUAs like to put it, our "value" lasts); and also of men's place, as the half of humanity with higher status, by virtue of nothing more than not being female.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Since it's the best-selling SI pretty much every year, though, I would say that a lot of people like it. On the grand scale of outrages, this one is pretty far down the list for most people. I don't think it's wrong to look at women (or men) whom one finds attractive.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Is it okay to think that looking at hot women in a magazine doesn't constitute a sin?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)my point. you said dont like dont look. there is another option. dont like speak out.
that simple.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Actually, I thought my comment was quite the opposite. Just for the record, I don't consider it a sin to look at these pictures and consider these women attractive.
Speak out all you want. I suspect SI is grateful for all the free advertisement it gets from OPs like this. Personally, I didn't even know the swimsuit edition was coming out this week until I read about it on DU.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)since you keep telling me you do not see it as a sin, or do i think it is a sin.... that would be where i get religion and your putting me in the fundamental, religious, prude box you and others are so fond of to try and sexually shame me and women that speak out, no different than the other side slut shaming women.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I think I have the same right to say that I personally enjoy the cover. Obviously, neither of us will change the other's point of view.
Have a pleasant evening. I'm still recovering from my midnight shifts this week, so I'm going to call it an early night.
Glad to see you back, by the way. I hope you finally got over that nasty bout of bronchitis you had when we last corresponded.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Isn't that usually the case, though? Apparently the alternative to criticizing the animalization and objectification of women is to call the critics prudes.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)No, but thanks for playing.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)You didn't have to use the literal word to imply that critics are prudes.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)clear what he is saying. as he knows. and was his intent. then feigns surprise it would be interpreted in that manner. well, he expects it to be interpreted in that manner. just do not call it out.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Neither do I. Yet I find the "swimsuit issue" largely inane and useless, at best. Imagine that...
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Isn't there something more important than complaining about pictures of pretty girls?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Not sure what "a 4th" means.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)name not needed
(11,660 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)to 4th's profile.
ETA - people should actually check and compare profiles before they make that kind of insinuation.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)No.
I am not a troll. I don't have the time nor the inclination.
But then, of course, I lack the time to make over 25 posts per day, 7/365 on average for the past ten years.
I'm curious though. Are you saying that if a person is a troll, then it is wrong for people to enjoy pretty women in bikinis? Now that's an odd counter-argument.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)We should talk about it eventually but not now. Not like this. Not with so many terrible things going on. Such bullshit.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)At least we've moved on from the sexism that men supposedly display by opening doors for women.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)It's not about sex, and it's not even about sexual imagery per se. It's about how people (women, in this case) are expected to fit into these narrow little boxes when most of them couldn't if they tried.
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)It's about the 'T's and 'A's, and it is an entirely normal thing.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)hence, women speaking out against it.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And lots and lots of women love it. Welcome to heterosexuality.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...and your point is?
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)In other words, there are a lot of normative social tendencies that are very far away from being justified or ethical.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Nor does it require justification.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Likely for your own justification. Which is ironic but not surprising.
The sexual objectification of women, to reduce a person to its constituent body parts, is deplorable under almost any condition. Despite your insistence to the contrary.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)There is nothing 'deplorable' about heterosexuality, or lust, or sex. Men lust after women, and women lust after men. It isn't dirty.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Your obfuscation is duly noted.
That cartoon carries an important message. The patriarchy oppresses in many forms. Often in ways that seem to be dichotomous or opposite but are nonetheless related at the source.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)and lust between men and women are normal.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)You're a trip.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)or immoral.
"You realize "normal" and "morally upright" are not synonyms, right?"
Anti-male = sexist.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Which isn't okay but is expected. People use the idea of sexual conquest, especially lust, to justify their narrow sexual domination.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Yes, "lust" is a natural, animal phenomenon. The capitalist commodification of it is not. See the difference?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)If it were one magazine, no one would give a shit. And if it were merely a matter of individual desire, no one would give a shit either. It's about how one particular standard of beauty is enforced upon all of society, to the detriment of the majority who will never live up to that image in a million years.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)would that be a good thing? Diversify the objectification?
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)have any culpability in this (whatever "this" is), or if it's all the fault of oppressive men for enjoying... flesh.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)nt
edbermac
(15,940 posts)Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)I shall comment on the SI cover no more forever.
Enjoy your bickering! Cheers!
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)cinnabonbon
(860 posts)If the mag hadn't had "sports illustrated" on the outside, I would never have been able to guess that it was supposed to be about sports. At least it was easier to guess in the old days.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)have always and will always objectify those they are attracted to.
"The urge to objectify is universal, and so long as it's fairly and respectfully indulged, it isn't offensive, not a problem, and not news." - Dan Savage
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)of attractiveness doesn't strike me as fair or respectful, quite frankly.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Nothing is ever going to stop human attractiveness. We start to desire and fantasize about the opposite gender (or sometimes the same gender) during puberty. And that has to do with hormones, not patriarchal conditioning.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)There's a good reason why the modern feminist movement is rejecting objectification 'theory'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_wave_feminism#Other_issues
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)The sex-negative feminism died mainly with the 2nd wave in early 1990s. There really isn't any mainstream focus with that form of feminism anymore. And women seem to be opening up sexually more and more with the millennial generation, not closing down. And not just women, but men, homosexuals, and transgenders as well.
Hippo_Tron
(25,453 posts)A sex-positive feminist magazine would give equal coverage to men's and women's SPORTS and have men's and women's swimsuit issues (or a single issue featuring both men and women).
I don't much care for sex-negative feminism, either. But sex-positive feminism doesn't mean that a magazine that focuses on men's athletic accomplishments and then once a year features some women because they look nice in a bikini is a-okay.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Sports news media in general is incredibly biased towards male sports and male sports fans mainly because men are perceived to make up the vast majority of it's audience. Even networks like ESPN hardly ever say anything about women's sports. SI is sort of pandering here.
But what I was referring to was more about society in general and things that go beyond this magazine. I doubt you'd find any man here or many elsewhere who thinks there is equality in the media. The media is a motherload of inequality and gender stereotypes. And it's not even hidden. Turn on any news channel or pick up any magazine on the rack and you'll see inequality immediately. But much of it has to do with capitalism. It's capitalism that is the evil here, not a woman's sexuality.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Next time the should wear burkas out in public so men won't look at them.
Much better days for women in America when they had less rights and we could force them to wear one pieces that covered up everything.
Some long for the days of controlling women and until they will just shame them into submission.
Why should they be shamed? Let me list the reasons:
1. They aided men by posing, thus they intentionally worked to hurt all women in the world with their bikinis.
2. They look, what many would call, pretty ( I know, I know- that is a misogynist term and should be stricken from the language). This means others will look at them (men eye rape them all day, women look at them and see victims of great evil who need saving from their looks). These women actually got paid to be looked at and thus stabbed the feminist movement in the back. This great evil deed cannot go unchallenged by the great minds of today.
3. They weren't tricked, they were competing with others for this job. Possibly forced into it because there were no other jobs available (that would be us men, we had a planning session about all this that only affects women models) but they may have not been. They are aiding the idea that some people find women like them attractive and worse yet - and I do mean this is the most insane terrible thing you will find on earth - some looked at them and thought about sex. I know. Makes you want to hit them with a bible. They knew some people might find them sexually appealing and they still did this? What is wrong with people? Don't they know what finding someone sexy does to them?
We should all be upset that human females wear skimpy clothes that men can see. It is unnatural to look at women in such a state. I have been won over to the cause and will work diligently to expose the great conspiracies of our time. People being sexually attracted to one another and enjoying seeing that needs to be addressed and all our energies should focus on this problem (We should join up with Ken Ham, he would probably help).
Maybe we should petition to have all men and women who don't agree with our assessments banned as sexist pigs (because if they don't always agree and act without sin they are women hating sexist members). New members should have a test. Show a photo, like the cover we are talking about, on the sign up page and one of a woman in a burka and ask them to check which one they like best. If they like seeing the bikini lady they are rejected because they support using women and thus hate them all.
Once everyone is banned we will have a nice small group left. Call it history of DU or something.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)If some of you didn't have hyperbole,you'd have nothing.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... don't like them? Don't get one.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)to images intended to portray them as playthings?
Your post is literally stomach-churning. It reaches republican levels of ignorance of the issues facing women.
Every time I think I've seen the worst possible thing on this board, someone lowers the bar. Be proud.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... is like other people trying to abridge your rights. Tough isn't it, to realize you are just like them, wanting to impose YOUR belief system on others.
treestar
(82,383 posts)to at least make a lame claim to equal treatment?
redqueen
(115,103 posts)just as much, equally pressured by society with regard to looks, etc etc etc ad nauseam.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Their customers couldn't care less. Those who would appreciate the attempt are outside their demographic.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Yes, yes that must be it. 50 years and TWO women of color.
It's really sad that so many people on this board are just flat-out unwilling (I can't help desperately hoping it's not seriously a case of a lack of ability) to recognize the bigotry being displayed and defended.
Of course, bigotry against women is still super fucking popular, so that one - well hardly anyone expects that most will get it.
ismnotwasm
(41,986 posts)I swear.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)SI's readership is, i have little doubt, overwhelmingly composed of heterosexual males. These heterosexual males are probably starting to skew towards an older average age, too (as print media continues to decline among younger age groups). Somewhat older heterosexual males tend to respond positively towards that sort of sexual objectification of women (and most often see nothing wrong with it). That' s fucked up on multiple levels...but that doesn't change the bottom line.
Regardless of other sociological factors involved, the overwhelming big factor in this is money...the national religion of plutocratic America.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)I feel better already.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Or, they admit they only want to reach misogynistic men? How dumb to limit your market when it could be so much bigger. I thought people like that wanted to make money. There are more women than men. Maybe women would buy their magazine. all they have to do is change one annual cover.
Upton
(9,709 posts)problem solved for those who don't want to see it but still want the magazine..
Upton
(9,709 posts)The Swimsuit edition is market driven..it's literally a $1 billion business. People buy it.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/business-facts-about-the-sports-illustrated-swimsuit-issue-2013-2#ixzz2tV8xb7BP
If a beefcake issue was that profitable you can be sure SI would put it out..
kjones
(1,053 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Someone points out that the pervasive sexualised objectification of women in our media-driven culture is unhealthy and reinforces a lot of ugly things; the same half-dozen people (who oddly enough are all male) turn up to say "but you're being a prude for not embracing a body-positive message of healthy sexuality! Why do you hate women?"; to cherrypick the 5% of images that consist of shirtless male models ("Look! Here's David Beckham on a Calvin Klein billboard! See? Men are objectified too!" to dismiss the issue via false equivalence; and to appropriate third-wave feminist "sex-positivity" to say "but what if they're fine with being objectified? that makes it okay!" (while being completely ignorant of some mainstream feminst movements against precisely this sort of sexualised objectification, mostly in the UK; see here and here for instance).
redqueen
(115,103 posts)if not participating personally.
It is almost all men, though, it's true. Not surprisingly.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)It's like they are obsessed with defending the right they seem to think they have, to have limitless, public access to --crude word that would start a disingenuous conflagration-- material. They're so defensive as to become irrational and incapable of reading while scrambling to defend their "rights".
Women aren't trying to take away their right to --crude word that would start a disingenuous conflagration--.
We just wish they would stop insisting they have a right to --crude word that would start a disingenuous conflagration-- in our faces!
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)This isn't ok.
I'm thinking about what could be done. Admin is taking a hands off approach. (Check ATA for a recent, superb, post. Can't think of the poster's name right now, sorry)
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)around some of these issues - which doesn't even get into certain posters' habit of constructing enormous and highly flammable strawmen ("you hate men/sex" etc. etc.) - that I don't know if we can even get people to quit it with the disingenuousness, let alone come to any kind of agreement or truce.
As much as I try not to "take sides" most of the time around here, sometimes the unfair treatment of (for example) HoF members is so blatant that it's impossible even for me to ignore.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Yes, and ambiguity....sometimes the post is a small problem compared to the usual suspects who get away with spewing. Because they use all the typical dysfunctional covers for their hostility.
What's even more infuriating is that so many fall for it.
Anyway, if admin won't do anything (I am sure that if the sexism trolls were playing racism games instead, they'd be seen for what they are, and booted.), then maybe it's best to push for a mass ignore campaign.
If no one bites, maybe that would dissuade them?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Much the same dynamic at work here. Which really makes me wonder about certain DUers' maturity level...
William769
(55,147 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)in this thread.
I have the people engaging in this particular example of faux-news style mendacity on ignore, so I'm just gonna post this here. Which apparently (and importantly) I had posted before they started playing their games:
who learn and grow over time. I know I have. I used to be quite the pro-objectification liberal feminist. I used to think if we could just objectify more men, everything would be equal and all that.
I got a huge wake up call when one particular liberal man showed his ass, and made it crystal clear that simply showing more mostly naked hot men cannot balance any scales. The only way to change society is to stop indoctrinating women to view themselves as objects, and stop indoctrinating men to view them as such.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4506933
It's sad how a few people here are so desperate to protect this form of male privilege that they'll engage in such blatantly rightwing tactics.
William769
(55,147 posts)It seems to be common place on DU use what you posted as an example or what is said about Hillary another female (hint) or even at the LGBT community (BTW which some are even drinking the fucking kool-aid).
I have never been so disappointed in so many DU members as I have recently.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)It's now sadly commonplace here, there is no doubt.
It's just amazing to see it done in the same very thread in which the context is so crystal clear.
Shameless...
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)whew. I wanted to reply but was stunned into inarticulate disgust. rightwing tactics, indeed.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)It's capitalism. The women who posed for those photo shoots were no doubt happy for the $$$$. I highly doubt they were feeling oppressed.
And just to be clear, I don't feel oppressed by it, either.