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MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 08:43 PM Feb 2014

Do you have any idea of how much DU's changed in the past year?

Last edited Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:15 PM - Edit history (1)

March 2013: Quick 2016 Poll: Hillary or Elizabeth?

December, 2013: Hillary or Elizabeth?

My belief is that DU is simply the Democratic Party's vanguard: what happens here happens en masse in the party a year or two later. Witness, for example: Did you hear Crystal Ball's rant on the Cycle asking Hillary not to run?

The Third Way est morte. FDR Democrats, the future is ours: if we grab it, fast and tight.

122 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Do you have any idea of how much DU's changed in the past year? (Original Post) MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 OP
Sweating? nt msanthrope Feb 2014 #1
!! Number23 Feb 2014 #87
Someone is sweating Oilwellian Feb 2014 #2
She wasn't in Obama's Cabinet in December. rug Feb 2014 #3
Personally, I think it was MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #8
No. No. The failure of privatized security is a very real scandal. aquart Feb 2014 #18
but it's kind of like.... ut oh Feb 2014 #52
I still think Hillary will be the next president. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #4
Yes I agree. She is the choice of the Powers To Be. nm rhett o rick Feb 2014 #74
I agree that the establishment wantbher but Democratic voters want her now. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #75
I predict that Citizen's United will work in Clinton's favor. How ironic. nm rhett o rick Feb 2014 #77
Probably. considering the GOP don't have a strong candidate she will get hrmjustin Feb 2014 #78
Exactly. nm rhett o rick Feb 2014 #80
I'm even seeing more about income inequality on the internet news. liberal_at_heart Feb 2014 #5
You're finally seeing income inequality on the web? aquart Feb 2014 #14
I don't agree with the finding "quick" fadedrose Feb 2014 #20
Yeah, that worked so well for Hillary LAST time! Demeter Feb 2014 #31
Not to her supporters . . . fadedrose Feb 2014 #36
I remember her supporters... Scootaloo Feb 2014 #82
Maybe John Boehner will run against her. boston bean Feb 2014 #96
Secret fadedrose Feb 2014 #103
Better to ProSense Feb 2014 #6
The margin of error has got to be nearly 100%. democratisphere Feb 2014 #7
Margin of error for predicting *what*? nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #9
Polls are certainly NOT scientific. democratisphere Feb 2014 #35
She trounced them in 2006 as well. John Kerry was second-place then. Scootaloo Feb 2014 #83
The Democrats ALREADY have a STRONG candidate they should be pumping up! democratisphere Feb 2014 #98
yeah, just like Kucnich and Edwards had FARRR more support than Obama or Hillary JI7 Feb 2014 #10
Can you back that up? MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #13
Kucinich leads, Obama lags, in DU poll JI7 Feb 2014 #25
Well $%^& me. You're right. nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #27
I got sick of hearing...... Historic NY Feb 2014 #34
Instead of trying to sow division among Dems Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #11
but that's just what some want JI7 Feb 2014 #15
How is this sowing division? Scuba Feb 2014 #17
I don't view it as 840high Feb 2014 #22
It's funny what different people view as Capt. Obvious Feb 2014 #37
Anything but lock step is division. L0oniX Feb 2014 #41
Nonsense. Posting an OP for discussion is not Autumn Feb 2014 #45
It Is, If You've Already Made Your Choice... WillyT Feb 2014 #55
Too early to make a choice. No one has announced they are running yet. Well Autumn Feb 2014 #58
+1 Go Vols Feb 2014 #113
We should be united going into the general election. But before that there has to be a nominating totodeinhere Feb 2014 #64
It's naive to think that this class war is being waged by Democrats vs. Republicans. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #76
Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #84
And I think it's more than that. If they just wanted to be on the side rhett o rick Feb 2014 #88
What a load of complete bullshit. Bobbie Jo Feb 2014 #112
That would be a great idea! treestar Feb 2014 #93
^^K&R^^ Progressive dog Feb 2014 #101
No huge changes. It has always been permissible to shit on Democrats prior to ... 11 Bravo Feb 2014 #12
It has always been permissable for elected Democrats to shit on the 99% after... MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #16
"only since 1992" JI7 Feb 2014 #19
You're right, my bad MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #24
So the OP would rather overturn the 2008 election than the 1980 election Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #30
You Better Believe It! n/t JTFrog Feb 2014 #32
Really? You're questioning his liberal bona fides? Come on. Ed Suspicious Feb 2014 #65
Why would a "liberal" rather overturn the 2008 election than the 1980 election? Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #68
+1 treestar Feb 2014 #94
Well yeah, President Mondale and President Dukakis's policies helped a lot more geek tragedy Feb 2014 #21
If only we had nominated Gary Hart Capt. Obvious Feb 2014 #38
Is it your contention that everyone who doesn't agree with your schtick is part of the 1%? 11 Bravo Feb 2014 #28
Not my contention at all. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #33
Was my vote for Barack Obama in 2008 and again in 2012 voting like I'm a 1%er? 11 Bravo Feb 2014 #39
I hope not. That's how I voted too. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #44
Correction Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #91
+1 LordGlenconner Feb 2014 #115
not since DU3, shitfest all the way to election day joshcryer Feb 2014 #43
You posted only one of those threads. MineralMan Feb 2014 #23
Why does it matter who posted it? MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #26
Compare the voters in your poll MineralMan Feb 2014 #29
Any following I have is transient, based on noncompliance with medications. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #40
Nevertheless, the two polls are not comparable. MineralMan Feb 2014 #47
On line polls of any sort are not worth a bucket of warm spit. bemildred Feb 2014 #99
in the words of bvar, you know them by their WORKS joshcryer Feb 2014 #42
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2014 #46
Yes, and no. MineralMan Feb 2014 #48
I have to agree blue14u Feb 2014 #49
I want to believe that Manny zeemike Feb 2014 #50
I'm Stuck In The SAME Hole You Are... zeemlike ChiciB1 Feb 2014 #60
I understand all of that. zeemike Feb 2014 #70
YOU Are A Person After My Own Heart! ChiciB1 Feb 2014 #109
I was promoting Elizabeth Warren for President before she was elected to the Senate mikekohr Feb 2014 #51
I think Elizebeth Warren will be in the finals. marble falls Feb 2014 #53
hell yes DonCoquixote Feb 2014 #54
My answer: DU's change = MannyGoldstein's increasing dominance for whatever the reason n/t UTUSN Feb 2014 #56
I hope you're right Manny... ReRe Feb 2014 #57
Hillary is sooooooooo 2008. bvar22 Feb 2014 #59
She might have been 2007. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #86
Manny, How much would you like to wager that this HRC for POTUS is all a huge ruse? 2banon Feb 2014 #61
That is an interesting idea and a hopeful one. zeemike Feb 2014 #71
Me too.. 2banon Feb 2014 #107
I think you're exactly right. woo me with science Feb 2014 #119
you assume she is in it for the money joshcryer Feb 2014 #73
She might not be doing it for money, though. JoeyT Feb 2014 #85
I truly believe she wants revenge. joshcryer Feb 2014 #95
Sure, I'd want that too. 2banon Feb 2014 #114
That's what I'm thinking JoeyT 2banon Feb 2014 #110
Your points rest my case. She doesn't need to put herself through all this shite.. 2banon Feb 2014 #108
what power? she is a civilian now joshcryer Feb 2014 #120
So is her husband 2banon Feb 2014 #121
what influence has Bill shown? joshcryer Feb 2014 #122
I don't think she'll run, either MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #79
I wouldn't bet money on it, but I can see it. bemildred Feb 2014 #100
Past year?... mzteris Feb 2014 #62
I'm pretty much TomClash Feb 2014 #63
Yes. I agree. And we are pointing the way to 2016. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #66
The bullshit has been exposed. :) woo me with science Feb 2014 #67
"Now the contest becomes truth versus money." Zorra Feb 2014 #89
Remember this from the departed Molly Ivins? Kurovski Feb 2014 #69
Damn I miss that lady. zeemike Feb 2014 #72
I miss...even the sound of her voice. Kurovski Feb 2014 #81
"get out there and give em hell" zeemike Feb 2014 #92
More people try to pass for real journalists.. Historic NY Feb 2014 #102
Yes. The "FOX blonds" as it is. Kurovski Feb 2014 #106
It's dangerous to be a real journalist these days. woo me with science Feb 2014 #118
A classic. jsr Feb 2014 #90
+1 a significant amount. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #104
The happy very few better get scared BelgianMadCow Feb 2014 #97
The populist ticket is the winning ticket in 2016 (and 2014). Enthusiast Feb 2014 #105
I won't be voting for Hillary, no matter how much Pavlov's Dems foam at the mouth. n/t whatchamacallit Feb 2014 #111
ok Bobbie Jo Feb 2014 #116
It is so cute that someone thinks informal internet polls, one with 129 responses and the other FSogol Feb 2014 #117
 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
8. Personally, I think it was
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 08:52 PM
Feb 2014

BENGHAZI!!!!

Note to jurors: I'm joking. BENGHAZI!!!! is a fully-fake scandal.

aquart

(69,014 posts)
18. No. No. The failure of privatized security is a very real scandal.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:00 PM
Feb 2014

We need to hold hearings about it.

And then they back away slowly. And very very quietly.

ut oh

(895 posts)
52. but it's kind of like....
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:42 PM
Feb 2014

Tourette's...

Any GOP'er: "So the other day...*BENGHAZI!*... I was talking to the barber... *BENGHAZI!*..."

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
75. I agree that the establishment wantbher but Democratic voters want her now.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:41 AM
Feb 2014

But as I sa7d before I hope their is a competitive primary. I like Brown of OH.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
5. I'm even seeing more about income inequality on the internet news.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 08:48 PM
Feb 2014

People are finally starting to talk about it. I think you're right in that we have to find a left leaning democrat to run quick before the centrist democrats put up a candidate who will promise to do something about income inequality when they really have no intention of doing anything about it.

aquart

(69,014 posts)
14. You're finally seeing income inequality on the web?
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 08:57 PM
Feb 2014

So let's run and grab a lefty Dem because you have a barn and Jonesy can play the piano and Edna knows her way around a lightboard?

Were you trying to be funny and I missed the emoticon?

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
20. I don't agree with the finding "quick"
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:01 PM
Feb 2014

Clinton has all the key Dems lined up for her, and has skads of money, and as she stands, no Dem in his right mind would try to go up against her and her support groups.

Before any will try, there has to be a slippage in her poll ratings. Right now, she could beat any Rep, but after they're done with their ads, her ratings will fall. Someone behind the scenes has to be ready to step in and save the day...

We have a qualified, liberal, personable, and experienced pool to pick from, and Hillary may decide to step aside and help that candidate, maybe even be Vice President. Strange stuff happens all the time.

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
36. Not to her supporters . . .
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:18 PM
Feb 2014

They are sick with expectation and nobody can go up against her for the nomination...The election, that's a different story. When the Reps settle down on one candidate who is not as insane as the others, and he gets the money, things will change. They are moving their convention up so this could happen..

No sloppy mistakes like that Romney private speech this time...they will be very careful.....

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
82. I remember her supporters...
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 01:05 AM
Feb 2014

I remember a lot of them revealing that their true goal was just to make sure the black guy didn't get elected, when they declared themselves Pumas, screamed about the democratic party's "affirmative action nominee" and started pitching support for John McCain. Matter of fact i remember them making a big huge public break from DU to go run their own site, where they mostly bitched about us "leftists" and our "black ass-kissing."

I don't judge a candidate by their fan club, mind, but I find endorsements from such people to be very... unconvincing. And even if the pumas are a faded artifact of campaigns past, many of her current supporters are no less nasty in their own way.

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
103. Secret
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 10:15 AM
Feb 2014

He may be gay, but I think he's sexy. Do ya think 75 is too old for this atttraction?

Be honest, Bean, you won't hurt my feelings.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
6. Better to
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 08:50 PM
Feb 2014

focus on policy.

Sen. Warren Joins Colleagues to Address College Affordability

Urges Congress to Refinance Student Loan Debt in Floor Speech

Video; Full Text

Washington, DC - In a floor speech this morning, United States Senator Elizabeth Warren joined Senators Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Jack Reed (D-R.I.), and Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) on the floor of the Senate to address college affordability. Senator Warren spoke about her plan to introduce legislation that would allow student borrowers to refinance their old, high-interest rate loans at the lower rates that are being offered to new student loan borrowers this year under the new Bipartisan Student Loan Certainty Act of 2013.

A graduate who took out an unsubsidized loan before July 1 of last year is locked into an interest rate of nearly 7 percent. Older loans run 8%, 9% and higher. "Refinancing those old loans would lower interest rates to 3.86% for undergraduate loans," Senator Warren said. "This is real money back in the pockets of people who invested in their education. Real money that will help young people find a little more financial stability as they work hard to build their futures. Real money that says that America invests in those who work to get an education."

The senator discussed how the government could pay for refinancing by closing tax loopholes for the wealthiest individuals and corporations. "Right now, this country essentially taxes students - by charging high interest rates that bring money into the government - while at the same time we give away far more money through a tax code riddled with loopholes and let the wealthiest individuals and corporations avoid paying a fair share," Senator Warren said. "We can close those loopholes and put the money directly into refinancing student loans."

"We can start with the Buffett Rule-a rule that would limit tax loopholes for the wealthy and ensure that billionaires pay at least as much as their secretaries. For every new dollar we bring in by stitching up this loophole, it can go directly to lowering the cost of student loans."

Senator Warren highlighted the $1.2 trillion in total national student loan debt that is burying graduates, preventing young people from buying homes and cars, and putting a drag on economic growth. "Tying students to a lifetime of financial servitude as a condition of getting an education does not reflect our values," she said. "These students didn't go to the mall and run up charges on a credit card. They worked hard and learned new skills that will benefit this country and help us build a stronger middle class and a stronger America. They deserve our support. They don't deserve to be buried in debt."

http://www.warren.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=393




 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
83. She trounced them in 2006 as well. John Kerry was second-place then.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 01:08 AM
Feb 2014

Turns out that feeding your name to the media has this sort of effect, but in the actual race, your results may vary.

Remember when Fred Thompson was the Republican headliner? Yeah.

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
98. The Democrats ALREADY have a STRONG candidate they should be pumping up!
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 08:56 AM
Feb 2014

Hillary has stronger appeal to some of those to the right of center and independents; democrats want her by HUGE margins! With the REAL POTENTIAL THREAT of RepubliCONS taking over the Senate and retaining the House, we absolutely must have a democratic president with a track record of working with the other side of the isle. Democrats can not afford to get this wrong.

JI7

(89,248 posts)
10. yeah, just like Kucnich and Edwards had FARRR more support than Obama or Hillary
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 08:54 PM
Feb 2014

on DU and who ended up on top in the actual results ?

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
11. Instead of trying to sow division among Dems
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 08:55 PM
Feb 2014

Perhaps talents could be put to better use going after Republicans and GOTV 2014...

Elections matter:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024490191

Autumn

(45,066 posts)
45. Nonsense. Posting an OP for discussion is not
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:51 PM
Feb 2014

sowing division among Dems. It might bother you but since this is a discussion board, people do like to discuss stuff. It is not campaign season so no special rules are in place prohibiting the comparisons.

Autumn

(45,066 posts)
58. Too early to make a choice. No one has announced they are running yet. Well
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:56 PM
Feb 2014

Bernie has said he might run. Just thinking about that gets me excited though.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
64. We should be united going into the general election. But before that there has to be a nominating
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:39 PM
Feb 2014

process and unless we have unanimous consensus on who that candidate should be then naturally there will be disagreements. I don't know any way around it. But I do agree that now should be the time to concentrate on the upcoming midterms which will be very important elections. There will be plenty of time to fight over our presidential nominee after that.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
76. It's naive to think that this class war is being waged by Democrats vs. Republicans.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:44 AM
Feb 2014

That's way too easy and you should be suspicious. The Republicans are a bunch of clowns put up by the Powers To BE to make everyone feel good about voting for their corporate friendly Democrat. There is really no choice.
H. Clinton has already pocketed $400, 000 from Goldman-Sachs for having tea with them. Do you think she will reform Wall Street?

Elections dont matter if your choice is between a corporatist and a clown.

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #76)

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
88. And I think it's more than that. If they just wanted to be on the side
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 01:50 AM
Feb 2014

of goodness (as they define it) then why do they disparage others? I think it's a self-righteousness that comes from an authoritarian upbringing that did not encourage open-mindedness.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
112. What a load of complete bullshit.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:35 PM
Feb 2014

"Why do they disparage others?" "Self-righteousness?"

Are you kidding? How do you post this kind of massive projection with a straight face??

Wow....what an utter lack of self awareness.

Stunning.

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
12. No huge changes. It has always been permissible to shit on Democrats prior to ...
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 08:55 PM
Feb 2014

the convention. Once we had a nominee, the crapfest had to cease. Then, if we were fortunate enough to elect the Democratic candidate, the pile-on could begin anew.
Of course, the new jury system, coupled with the cult of personality some DUers (especially those with cute multiple usernames) have established, may prove me wrong in the long run.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
16. It has always been permissable for elected Democrats to shit on the 99% after...
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 08:59 PM
Feb 2014

the elections.

Well, that's actually not true - only since 1992.

NAFTA, the repeal of Glass-Seagall... etc.

Enough!

JI7

(89,248 posts)
19. "only since 1992"
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:00 PM
Feb 2014

interesting you use that date. but then again you also would rather overturn 2008 than 1980 election.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
30. So the OP would rather overturn the 2008 election than the 1980 election
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:09 PM
Feb 2014

Then the OP creates post after post trying to pit Dems against each other.

Really makes you hmmmm.....

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
21. Well yeah, President Mondale and President Dukakis's policies helped a lot more
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:02 PM
Feb 2014

people than Bill Clinton and Barack Obama ever did.

Capt. Obvious

(9,002 posts)
38. If only we had nominated Gary Hart
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:25 PM
Feb 2014

Reagan would have been a one termer and Bushes never in the White House.

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
28. Is it your contention that everyone who doesn't agree with your schtick is part of the 1%?
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:07 PM
Feb 2014

If so, here's a clue for you. I left the Army in 1972 with a gut full of frag and Sergeant's stripes. Then I taught public school for over three decades, and am now a retired teacher who substitutes every day.
If I'm part of the 1% I wish someone would inform my fucking bank account.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
33. Not my contention at all.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:12 PM
Feb 2014

But as someone said on DU, I forget who: "If you're not part of the 1%, then why vote like one?"

That being said... thanks both for your service in combat, and in the military. (That was probably a bad joke). In all seriousness, those are probably the two endeavors most critical to our nation remaining a nation, and neither is appreciated nearly enough.

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
39. Was my vote for Barack Obama in 2008 and again in 2012 voting like I'm a 1%er?
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:31 PM
Feb 2014

I have to tell you, if the election was held again tomorrow, and I know everything that I know today, I would still vote for President Obama.
I have always thought that the "If you're not part of the 1% why do you vote like it" meme was aimed at poor and middle class (and mostly white) Southern and Midwestern voters who tend to vote Republican.
Maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe I'm just so fucking old, tired, and jaded that I've allowed pragmatism to rein in that fiery young radical that I used to be (honest!)
In any case, I enjoy your posts, and even when I disagree with you it's impossible to deny that you're thought provoking and funny.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
44. I hope not. That's how I voted too.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:50 PM
Feb 2014

In 2008 with pleasure.

So I get your point.

But, dammit, let's take back the American Dream.

Regards,

Hastened Manny

 

LordGlenconner

(1,348 posts)
115. +1
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 01:19 PM
Feb 2014

And that's what it is, too. Schtick.

Be sure and tip your waitresses folks!

Also, anyone who dares or bothers to save for retirement is part of the 1 percent with some here on DU. It's pretty sad, actually.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
43. not since DU3, shitfest all the way to election day
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:50 PM
Feb 2014

lots of trolls banned but the sneaky ones managed to tone it down

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
23. You posted only one of those threads.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:02 PM
Feb 2014

I looked at who voted in both polls. That tells the story. Sorry, but it's not a good comparison.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
26. Why does it matter who posted it?
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:04 PM
Feb 2014

You think there's self-selection bias? Could be, but probably works both ways.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
29. Compare the voters in your poll
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:08 PM
Feb 2014

with the list of people who DUrec one of your other threads. You have a following here. The poster of the other poll does not. Skewed results, I think.

My opinion only.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
40. Any following I have is transient, based on noncompliance with medications.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:32 PM
Feb 2014

These poor souls probably don't have processing memory sufficient to hold a thought in their noggin long enough to pull something off along th lines you're suggesting.

That being said, there's also a swarm that loves to vex me. Probably cancels out, more-or-less.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
47. Nevertheless, the two polls are not comparable.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 09:54 PM
Feb 2014

That's just one of the reasons. DU polls are not very useful in predicting anything outside of DU, anyhow.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
99. On line polls of any sort are not worth a bucket of warm spit.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 09:30 AM
Feb 2014

They mean exactly as much as being voted "Most Improved Student" in the 6th grade.

People say what they think other people think they should say, not what they think, much less what they will eventually do. And those are the ones being honest.

How many times have we said "DU this poll"?

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
50. I want to believe that Manny
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:29 PM
Feb 2014

And hope like hell it is true, because I think it is the last gasp for this country.

But I am also a cynical SOB and know the power of money, and Hillery has lots of it, and is the GOP choice for the Dems because they have a lot of ammo stored up from last time to use.

And I think the GOP will run someone new...probably a woman and will sound like a great reformer...they are probably grooming her now.

See the depths of cynicism I have sunk too?...but money owns us lock. stock and the proverbial barrel.

ChiciB1

(15,435 posts)
60. I'm Stuck In The SAME Hole You Are... zeemlike
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:19 PM
Feb 2014

AND CYNICAL? Wow, never thought I would know the depths of this feeling, and I mean NEVER!

I HAD to leave here for quite some time because the posts hit a deep nerve inside me and it was affecting my life so negatively. Still does, mostly because I have to realize how HOPELESS I feel. I feel like I sit in front of a screen and can almost hear screaming from inside it.

And before, SOMEONE attacks me again and calls me "too lazy" I'll just say this one time... From the time I was very young I believed from the get go that my activism throughout many years starting back in the 60's was essential and my duty as a citizen of this country! As I'm sure it is with so many here, we've spent years in the trenches fighting back at injustice and causes that are too long to list here.

Even now, this very day, I'm unable to escape from my core beliefs. Still at the same time I feel I'm wandering in a foreign wilderness and I don't know which way to turn.

Ideas and suggestions run rampant but what is the winning way?? I can point to the wrongs I see and how they are mounting, but it's become almost impossible to motivate anyone long enough for the good fight. APATHY & CYNICISM is taking it's toll. Sorry to go on and on, but I really thought those who came after me would pick up and keep the activism going. Surely it has to resurface! My physical and financial situation impedes me in many ways, not to mention the care giving that many of us feel is our obligation to our loved ones who sacrificed for us. Our families.

Once again I know I don't bring any answers that are sorely needed, but my gut makes me continue to join the fray!




zeemike

(18,998 posts)
70. I understand all of that.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:15 AM
Feb 2014

And I wish I did not.
And I think there are a lot of us out there just like us...to quote Jackson Brown...we started out so young and strong, only to surrender...that is how I feel a lot of the time.

But I do see young people that want to take up the struggle but they seemed to be overwhelmed by the ones that are struggling to keep things the same...and even here they are few but have a loud voice and use it.

And I don't have any answers ethier...and the ones I do give would be attacked anyway.

ChiciB1

(15,435 posts)
109. YOU Are A Person After My Own Heart!
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:25 PM
Feb 2014

JACKSON BROWNE! While I love music and I LOVE too many artists to name, it's JACKSON BROWNE who took my heart way way back when! Was lucky enough to attend 3 of his concerts, the last one in Tampa where he performed his "Solo Acoustic Tour!" Right up front, I blew a hole in my savings, but it was worth it.

On my desk, I have the words of 2 of his more activists songs... Lives In The Balance & For America! I printed them out and put them in clear plastic so I can see those words every day.

I don't care what rumors are out there or what others might say about him, to me the depth of so many songs he's written captured my soul from day one.

You could have just written the words you quoted without saying who it was and I would have known right away who it came from.

And he too asked many questions through his music and many needed answers... and like you & I we "would be attacked anyway!"

Pretty heartbreaking as we stand on the brink!

mikekohr

(2,312 posts)
51. I was promoting Elizabeth Warren for President before she was elected to the Senate
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:41 PM
Feb 2014

Same as with President Obama.

But without a Democratic House and Senate, with fillibuster reform, disapointment will follow.

The Presidency is but one branch of government. We need the Congress also. And if so, we will get the Supreme Court too in time.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
54. hell yes
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:48 PM
Feb 2014

because people realize that if, at the very least, Hillary does not have some pressure to run to the left, she will be pulled to the right, and frankly, that is not the sort of thing that will make people risk getting arrested or beat up on election Day.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
57. I hope you're right Manny...
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 10:56 PM
Feb 2014

... I hope you're right. Seems like I've been waiting till the next election all my life.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
59. Hillary is sooooooooo 2008.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:08 PM
Feb 2014

Her time came,
and now it is gone.

There is a wave of Populism arising in our country,
a wave that Corporate Owned 3rd Way Republican lite Hillary can NOT ride.
She does not have the credentials,
no matter how many cartoon graphs show up at DU trying to BlueWash Hillary as a Liberal or a Populist.

If the money men and power brokers of the conservative, Corporate Friendly, establishment Democratic Party
are successful at buying the Democratic nomination for Hillary, it will tear our party apart.




[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font]
[/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center]
[/font]

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
61. Manny, How much would you like to wager that this HRC for POTUS is all a huge ruse?
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:19 PM
Feb 2014

This is a theory solely based on my intuition. This business of floating HRC's name in front for the 2016 PUTUS run is solely intended for the party to pull a rabbit out of the hat at the last possible minute, essentially in order to let the repukes throw all of their rotten eggs (intended to hit HRC with) in one basket. keep the opposition 'research' team energy, time and money focused on her.

In any event, she's not about to put herself through all that shite again. She just doesn't need to. She can happily find her self a hedge fund company, Lobbying firm or other corporation and start reaping in the $$$$, retire comfortably and call it a day.

That's my hunch.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
107. Me too..
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:18 PM
Feb 2014


just the only thing that makes to me in terms of party strategy for that race. That's how I would play it..

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
119. I think you're exactly right.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 03:53 PM
Feb 2014

They will try to sneak in another corporate Trojan horse who will promise to represent the 99 percent, and hope there is not sufficient time for him or her to be exposed.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
73. you assume she is in it for the money
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:35 AM
Feb 2014

hint: she pulls in 250k per speech

her book will likely earn tens of millions

your view is highly simplistic

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
85. She might not be doing it for money, though.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 01:22 AM
Feb 2014

She might be doing it because she doesn't like Republicans. Watching them scramble around like their asses were on fire while we ran a candidate they didn't have shit on would be enough reason for me to do it, were I in her shoes.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
95. I truly believe she wants revenge.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 04:56 AM
Feb 2014

She can't openly say this, but I truly believe she wants to get back at them. Diane Blair's journals had some stuff in there about her time as First Lady, and the stuff we see is really a strong headed woman who wants to get shit done.

The best quote:

This, she said, is what drives their adversaries totally nut(s), that they don't bend, do not appear to be suffering.
 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
114. Sure, I'd want that too.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:38 PM
Feb 2014

That may be the driving motivation if she actually does run. I just have this hunch that's it's all a ruse for very smart strategic purposes. But it's just a hunch.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
110. That's what I'm thinking JoeyT
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:31 PM
Feb 2014

That would be fun to watch if I were in her shoes, and that was the strategy. Watch those freaking bastards, the Karl Rove machine, Koch Brothers (especially) Faux news pundit asshats, only to be shown what stupid morons they actually are.

that would be sweet.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
108. Your points rest my case. She doesn't need to put herself through all this shite..
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:25 PM
Feb 2014

I'm not just talking about the job of the office which she knows more about than any other possible contender, (most likely) I'm talking about the race for the job will be just as brutal. Why do it? Power? She already has a lot of power in spades.

She can make even more money than she's raking in now. once she takes office, all of what she's invested in will come into extremely close scrutiny, possibly far worse than White Water and all that crap revisited.

Again, why do it?

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
121. So is her husband
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 08:34 PM
Feb 2014

I'm not sure if you're being serious with that question/observation. She will forever hold the position of power to influence in whatever realm she chooses to influence. She will forever have access to all manner of opportunities to do that and more......

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
100. I wouldn't bet money on it, but I can see it.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 09:41 AM
Feb 2014

I'd have to know her a whole lot better than I do.

mzteris

(16,232 posts)
62. Past year?...
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:25 PM
Feb 2014


It's completely different from the du of old.

I can't really vouch for the "past year" because s it surpassed my tolerance threshold some years back.

Oh I poke I now and again, but seriously, there is no comparison. None.


TomClash

(11,344 posts)
63. I'm pretty much
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:37 PM
Feb 2014

The same as I ever was.

Unreconstructed Democrat. No third way, no first way, the only way.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
66. Yes. I agree. And we are pointing the way to 2016.
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:44 PM
Feb 2014

That is why I think that Hillary may find that she is too out of touch to run successfully.

We used to be the party that fought for racial equality. We still are, but many of us now recognize that the racism that is most hardcore, most difficult to end, is deeply embedded in our culture and is reinforced by our economy which rewards the privileged without giving opportunity to those who do not enjoy privilege.

The political issues that we must deal with in the next years are to a great extent economic. Hillary would have to take a leap out of her comfy environment to come up with workable solutions. She is too dependent on Wall Street and big business to become a credible advocate for the changes that we need to make in our culture and in our economy.

It's one thing to advocate for equal pay, but it's quite another to advocate for free day care, paid maternity leave, and higher pay for all working people.

Hillary's stance on trade is not in sync with the Democrats in Congress or in the streets.

Kurovski

(34,655 posts)
69. Remember this from the departed Molly Ivins?
Wed Feb 12, 2014, 11:57 PM
Feb 2014

She was sick of it way back when, too.

"I'd like to make it clear to the people who run the Democratic Party that I will not support Hillary Clinton for president.

Enough. Enough triangulation, calculation and equivocation. Enough clever straddling...

What kind of courage does it take, for mercy's sake? The majority of the American people (55 percent) think the war in Iraq is a mistake and that we should get out. The majority (65 percent) of the American people want single-payer health care and are willing to pay more taxes to get it. The majority (86 percent) of the American people favor raising the minimum wage. The majority of the American people (60 percent) favor repealing Bush's tax cuts, or at least those that go only to the rich. The majority (66 percent) wants to reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending, but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

The majority (77 percent) thinks we should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment. The majority (87 percent) thinks big oil companies are gouging consumers and would support a windfall profits tax. That is the center, you fools. WHO ARE YOU AFRAID OF? "


http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0120-30.htm

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
102. More people try to pass for real journalists..
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 10:13 AM
Feb 2014

"What Murdoch introduced in this country was the always effective British combination ... where you marry T&A - sex, ... a lot of bosomy bathing beauties - with patriotism, jingoism, flag waving. And it's a VERY effective combination. He's introduced it here beautifully and it's taken hold, particularly on television." Molly Ivins...

but they are following the hype and gotcha tumble, to sell themselves in the manner the fits the Murdoch tabloids.

Kurovski

(34,655 posts)
106. Yes. The "FOX blonds" as it is.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:02 PM
Feb 2014

Newscasts with legs in the shot. No necessity for that, yet they all do it now.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
118. It's dangerous to be a real journalist these days.
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 03:49 PM
Feb 2014


*Press freedom under attack - the risks journalists face in order to report*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024486945#post8

U.S. Plunges in Global Press Freedom Rankings As Obama Wages "War on Whistleblowers"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024488178

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
105. The populist ticket is the winning ticket in 2016 (and 2014).
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 10:25 AM
Feb 2014

Such a ticket cannot include Hillary Clinton.

FSogol

(45,481 posts)
117. It is so cute that someone thinks informal internet polls, one with 129 responses and the other
Thu Feb 13, 2014, 02:47 PM
Feb 2014

with 200 some responses, is representative of anything.

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