Study: Too much red meat may shorten lifespan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food#Growing_GM_crops

is the horrendous impact things like bacon and salami seem to have. That's been several new studies that have just come out that say that processed meats w/nitrites are really, really horrible - they increase your risk of colon cancer and pancreatic cancer by 20% and now it seems like they increase your overall risk of death by the same amount.

I will continue to eat red meat occasionally, and cut out carbs, and refrain from anything with nitrites. And when I am able to afford grass-fed beef, I'll go for that because I agree that feeding cows GMO corn probably isn't making for the healthiest meat on the market.

Corn Silage
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G4590

It can be made of other plants, such as sorghum, but most silage in those tall blue silos that dot the landscape is corn silage.

Cows have a very difficult time digesting corn.

The silage chopper cuts off the stalk a few inches above the ground and chops up the whole plant. It is usually done when the kernals are not completely hard, but are still a little soft. But they are quite mature, because you harvest silage after the plant has started to dry out. The cobs may be a little smaller than in corn raised for grain, because silage corn is planted at a higher density of plants per acre.

The kernals, usually attached to some cob, can be easily seen in the silage.

anything but the green part. Not one. Corn makes cows sick. And that is a fact. These days, we don't care if they get sick, we just add anti-biotics to the feed and let them stand knee-high deep in their own shit and hope that they don't get too sick before slaughter.

The silage corn that the farmers grew in my farm community was reserved for horses. In fact, we called it horse corn.

the problems happen when the ratios are so far off from nature. Cattle can consume a fair amount of grain just fine - as long as it is balanced with roughage. Intensive feeding to push growth/fat with a high carb (grain) diet is when you get the metabolic problems.

In nature, there are times of the year (typically late summer and fall) when grasses are ripening and going to seed that cattle eat a much larger portion of "grain" than the rest of the year. That was one reason home slaughter happened in late fall/early winter (another reason is flies and storage issues). Same with hunting. That is when an animal is typically at its highest plane of nutrition and health.

Just cut out simple carbs like sugar and white flour. I rarely eat corn because of the GMO factor, but some corn is fine for humans, just not cattle and dogs and cats.

and I should have clarified.

When I said cut out carbs, I meant continuing my low carb diet. Contrary to most popular opinion, low-carb diets contain plenty of carbs. On the weight loss phase of the particular low-carb diet I'm on, you are supposed to eat 11-20 grams 5 times a day. You aren't allowed sugar or 'white' carbs though. And those 11-20 carbs are 'extra', meaning you don't have to count the carbs in nuts/seeds or vegetables. Those 11-20 carbs are supposed to come from whole grains or fruits.

There IS a type of 'induction' phase of the diet where you eat 5 grams of carbs every 5 hours or so, which is really restrictive, but it's only for a short period of time. Most of the time you are supposed to have the 11-20 carbs each meal, and on the maintenance phase you are supposed to (not 'allowed' but 'supposed to') eat even more carbs.

Anyhow, just thought I'd mention that. When I said cut out carbs I didn't mean I was going to eat nothing but meat.

We get organic grass fed beef, actually 1/2 of a beef, once a year.
While raised on pasture grass, for some period of time before slaughter, beef are grain fed.
I forgot the reasoning the farmer gave me, but it appears to be a common practice.

Wonder if there are any buffalo ranches near me.....maybe that would be different?

you can get grass only, range only, clean-out fed with corn, grain finished, etc. and yes the same applies to buffalo. Ask whoever you are buying from what their feeding/finishing program is and if you want something different ask if they are amenable to that. I bet most any direct seller will explain their philosophy fully if you are interested and many will custom finish as well.

usually a few weeks of grain are fed to get a less gamey flavor, more than that is to develop better marbling/tenderness.

Where buffalo meat was plentiful. I bought buffalo steak often. I'm not sure if they got grains or not, the package always just said, 'grass-fed'.

I didn't know about the 'finished' on grains, but it makes sense - from what I understand, the grains make the meat taste better, so feeding them grains right at the end would eliminate any weird taste from a fully grass-fed cow. We once got a cow that just didn't taste 'right' and my (now ex) husband talked to the farmer and he said that he didn't give the cows grain at all and maybe the cow 'got into something'. The meat was slightly wild and skunky tasting - like moose meat.

for sure.

It's so good it's like a slice of heaven. I'd eat goat, too, for a change up if there was fresh in my area.

I try to eat lamb every other week.

hehehe

Gimme red meat, and let me step aside to make room for two more...

MMM mmm MMM.

The low carb,high protein is getting more popular. You eat meat,eggs,butter etc,but avoid all breads,pastas etc.

There are many other ways of getting protein than red meat.

pretty sure red meat and the cigs killed my dad at 58 (heart attack), but then his dad ate just as much and lived to 92 - but didn't smoke.

I try to limit it to small portioned lean cuts no more than once a week. i try to eat lots of fish and have given up the pork except the most rare occasion (like relatives in town and they insist on the shoney's buffett)

before i moved i used to eat at a place that served free range bison burgers - supposedly not as bad for you.

the hardest thing for me to give up is whole milk. it's just so much tastier than 2 percent and 1 percent might as well be water, which sucks on grape nuts.

that was a long time ago. maybe i'll try slowly working it in with an eye on making it a replacement.

Two of my grandparents lived to be near 90. My dad's dad couldn't understand how people drank so much soda. Soda was usually a Saturday afternoon treat. He never ate large meals, and he was a letter carrier for years, and remained quite active after retirement too, with much travel and activities such as canoeing and fishing. My mother's mother never ate large meals. She rarely even finished a burger, fries and drink when she ate them, and that was with 70s and 80s sized portions, not the ultra-jumbo sized meals fast food places serve. They both ate plenty of veggies, but they did eat what is today considered unhealthy foods; they just at LESS of it. My other two grandparents died at younger ages, but one had cancer, the other what seems to be a hereditary heart condition. My parents didn't live to very advanced ages, but both had cancer. They both ate more food, too.

At the same time, I can look at what fretting about health does to people, too. A cousin of my mother's with whom I'm close has blood pressure issues, cancer, nerves. He spends many hours at the doctor, and swallows meds all day long. I think at least part of his problem is that news and some health practitioners have kept him ratcheted up with nerves over the years, which contributes to his poor health. He frets over nearly everything he puts in his mouth because "a study" said this or "TV Doctor so-and-so" said that.

both are written by Michael Pollan and both might help him put his mind at ease. "The Omnivores Dilemma" is more dense - a personal narrative chocked full of useful information - "In Defense of Food" goes straight to the information. Neither one advocate "a study" said this or a "TV Doctor so-and-so" said that. Both reject yo-yo food fads.

and excercise - your letter carrying grandfather, for example. i think that, along with not smoking is what allowed my grandfather to outlive his son (my dad.) the former was blue collar, outside and doing physical labor. my dad was an accountant.

This group includes meat, fish, poultry, eggs, nuts, seeds, dried beans and peas. So, probably more than 2 oz of red meat a day is too much.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/282320-recommended-daily-intake-of-food-groups/#ixzz1oyIqw5Ui

... is a good amount, more than that ought to be avoided. They also recommend doing without processed meats (bacon, hot dogs, etc.) entirely.

And btw, what happened to the clown smilie? Those bastads!

calcium, even when they take high doses of Vit. D, Magnesium, etc... So
fragile bones that fracture easily and become arthritic is the result for
older people. It may take many years though. I started having pain
some 8 months ago and did quite some research.

Just google EZorb. There's a lot of info on bone problems of all sorts
there. I started taking the pills, and within 3 to 4 weeks I noticed a
considerable decrease in the pain.

Just read it, and good luck.

or just throwing stuff against the wall and hoping it will stick?

anti-intellectualism. One of my professors wrote a paper about the correlation between masculinity and meat eating and that the media portrays "Real Men" as hard-core, red meat eaters. Among my conservative friends, calorie consumption, "bucking" nutritional "trends" (or facts, depending), and eating lots of red, cured meats all seem to reinforce their conservative cred; in one another's minds, anyway.

I expect to see a surge in the anti-nutrition crowd in the wake of this report.

Not just red meat and not just GMO corn

There are two main types of essential fatty acids. Omeda-3 and omega-6.

Omega-6 promotes inflammation and blood clotting. Omega-3 helps blood flow freely.

Corn is high in omega-6 fatty acids. All corn...not just GMO corn. Modern beef cows are fed a diet of mostly corn. This produces beef with enormous amounts of omega-6. Grass fed beef by contrast contains about equal amounts of omega-6 and omega-3.

Fish has a high proportion of omega-3. But be advised that farm raised fish can be fed a diet based on corn products as well. Those fish yield meat that is also high in omega-6

So I think that what this study really points to is an over abundance of omega-6 in our diets.

I highly recommend a book ( yes a book not a website ) titled "Omnivores Dilemma"

It is much more concentrated in corn oil, soybean oil, sunflower oil, etc than it is in the fat of meats.

There is also more omega-6 in chicken than in ground beef.

I refer to it often and reread passages now and again.

Every day, I get a little closer to going vegan.

Pink slime, saturated fats, red dye to make meat appear "healthier" in grocery stores, etc.

She smoked cigarettes most of her life. But that doesn't mean people should keep on puffing away.

And I am still alive and kicking with no serious health problems, so I hope to make to my 80s.

Maybe I need to switch from these filtered cigs I smoke.

-rags

I imagine we often hold anecdotal evidence nearer and dearer to us that peer-reviewed analyses as science is merely a convenience...

My great-uncle lives in Vienna.

disputes an entire published study.

Grass-fed is much healthier for you with better fats.

Cows stomachs aren't designed to eat corn at all, whether it's GMO or not.

http://www.eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm

He and his farm have been featured on some great documentaries - like Food Inc. and Fresh. He's also an author, and has given loads of fantastic, impassioned speeches across the country - including this TED Talk:

My usual links to post for people looking to eat better and encourage saner agriculture too.

But go tell that to an elderly Argentine gaucho who has been eating beef all his life. The difference is that their cattle is grass fed, mostly grazing in the vast pampas. Argentine beef is delicious and I intend to get plenty of eat on my next trip there. In the States I eat beef sparingly.

Best decision ever!

I eat more fish. I haven't stopped drinking milk since calcium is a huge issue for women. I never was a fan of eggs, so that's not a problem.

I DO have to take iron supplements. I have a tendency towards anemia. What do you suppose those iron supplements are derived from? This isn't a facetious question - it's a genuine one. What are they derived from?

Spinach and other legumes have iron, but much of it is not absorbed by the body due to the presence of other minerals that take precedence.

I'm not attacking this study, nor claiming you are wrong, FLVegan. There are tremendous benefits to a vegan lifestyle. I'm just opening up a dialogue.

Do you just have a thing against NYC?

It was not for health reasons, but my compassion for animals. I cannot become a vegan because I love cheese, milk and eggs. But at least the animals did not have to be killed for their eggs and milk products.

The life of a plant has no value for it (as far as I can tell) but the life of a cow clearly can have more or less value for the cow, depending on how happy the cow is and how long it lives. Personally, I want cows to have long, happy lives.

The sooner we do it the better. Right now we really are raping our own future with that industry. It's a total waste.

Also a shame the disgusting violence going on every day, that consumers are in denial of.

It's evolution, honor, decency. It's sorta hard living with people who still eat some meat, but the ones who beat their chests about the steaks they eat make me ashamed of my species.

The ones who really yell about it and call us murderers and say we deny the conditions of the industry make me ashamed of my species.

you buy the product of it though?

You seem offended. sry!

Call me cold or selfish or whatever you like. But think of this, if we did not use all the cattle and other domesticated animals we currently have on farms, ranches, factories what have you what would happen to all of them? If we just let them live and bred why they would wreck completely havok on ecosystems around the world.

And yes maybe I am a bit offended by people claiming they are morally superior to others because of what they eat, particularly when they express disdain for people who do not eat like they do.

but you don't see that the billions of animals being farmed for food wouldn't be there if people hadn't built that earth-rapingly unsustainable industry in the last few decades? It could be phased out, with great success and a brighte...

oh nevermind, you are not going to listen to me.

I am so so sorry that I offended you

And yes the industry has grown massively in the past few decades as the human population has grown and as countries like China develop but it's not like the raising of animals for substance is a recent development.

I am listening to you, but there is a difference between listening and having my opinion changed.

I would call you selfish, destructive, anti-environment, pro-cruelty, and a bunch of other things.

Your argument about existing cattle, pigs, etc. is stupid. It's not a serious argument. The absurd excess of numbers in animals that exists and is sustained by the food industry is a product of massive over-breeding via torture devices like gestation crates. What scenario your ridiculous "oh noes, escaped pigs rampaging around the world!!!" contemplates, it is hard to pinpoint. The world isn't all going to universally and suddenly go vegan, 100%. At best, meat eating is being phased down, and in certain cases phased out. Perhaps, with less demand, the incentive for Big Ag to over-breed, destroy the earth, and indulge in cruelty will similarly be reduced.

As to why everything you said is terrible, here are a few paragraphs that don't so much contain arguments as they contain facts. Well, there are a few opinions thrown in there:

The environmental case for eating less meat is overwhelming. Factory farmed animals consume enormous quantities of crops, metabolizing and excreting most of what they eat as environment-polluting waste. Direct consumption by human beings (a non-meat diet) feeds more humans with fewer crops, using less land. Factory farms require extraordinary amounts of water and fossil fuels, and methane emissions and water pollution are inescapable byproducts of these operations. Animals are penned in without freedom of movement, fresh air or sunlight, living in conditions that few among us could bear for a single afternoon. But one thing will escape from those barns – excrement. Massive, ghastly lagoons of pig and cattle waste regularly leak into rivers and water tables. Operations that spray “fertilizer” pollute the earth more directly, saturating, not fertilizing the land.

Regularly eating meat supports an inefficient food industry built on cruelty. For many of us who transitioned to vegetarianism and veganism there was an inescapable conclusion – if you eat pork, beef, or chicken, the odds are overwhelming that an animal was tortured on a factory farm to satisfy your craving. By 2007, four U.S. pork producers – all practitioners of factory farming – controlled 66% of the entire market for pig products. Four companies control more than 75% of the cattle market. The top two poultry companies kill more than 4 billion chickens each year, sending them off to cruel mechanical death after short, miserable lives spent in cages as wide as half an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper.

Now for something really scary: exploding pig waste foam. In Minnesota, home of ag giant, Cargill, slush like foam has been found on top of manure pits and congealed under the eaves of factory barns. The foam traps gases like methane, which has caused entire barns to explode, killing thousands of pigs and causing millions of dollars in damages. The Minnesota Pork Producers Association, among others, is funding research at the University of Minnesota to solve the foam problem.


So in short, you support more starvation, destruction of the Earth, horrifying cruelty, and exploding pig shit. Congratulations, that's quite a slate.

I have to say it may be nice to eat more fish and nuts, but it's hard to beat a good steak.

Mmmmmm, bacon.

Sid

the domestication of non-human animals wouldn't have happened, and if you wanted to kill it and eat it, you'd have to earn it. That means no guns or farms, as those make it just too easy.

As for the reality in which we live; eat what you want to eat, don't eat what you don't want to eat, and don't worry so much about when other people are going to die.

If you read my post above:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002418020#post60

(you know, the one with like, actual information)

you would see how bankrupt this viewpoint is. Factory Farming is about far more than "when other people are going to die."

People are going to do what they are going to do, but on a site where I think we're supposed to believe that we are "enlightened," people really should stop being so proud of, or at least unapologetic about being so fucking ignorant.

Don't like zoos either. Farms and husbandry, nothing but attempts to control, to make other life outside of what it might be worth to humanity not worth something for its own sake. Agriculture has been one of the most destructive activities the human species has managed to do, as factory farms wouldn't even exist without it. The same can be said of roads. I find it very sad the way that we've increasingly tried to mold the rest of life on this planet, and the planet itself, mostly through violence as historically might has made right, to fit the narrow wants of a single species.

I don't eat it everyday. I still enjoy it once or twice weekly.

Truthfully, the taste kind of grosses me out. When I was a kid, I was anemic. I wouldn't eat any meat. As a type 1 diabetic, I have to include some more protein as I can't eat as many carbs. I eat peanut butter, beans, some turkey and chicken. But steak, hamburgers, etc. just are not my thing. Which is just as well, as I have loads of other health issues to worry about.

Skip to 42 minutes in.

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=38870

eating red meat.

until after a cup of coffee or a bloody mary. Seriously, I'd rather drop dead if I couldn't have a couple steaks a week...(I am 71 and way healthier than my doctor)

By the time these fascists finish their work with Social Security and Medicare, I'll be in the streets....so who gives a fuck.

Newsflash, your blood cholesterol has NOTHING to do with dietary cholesterol, it is a side effect of insulin resistance caused by too many carbs in your diet.

There is so much nutritional conventional wisdom that is BS based more on grain agribusiness propaganda rather than physiological reality. Placing carbohydrates at the base of the food pyramid is based on politics, not science.

Eat up.

I loved being "schooled" on nutrition by amateurs.

tell him about one of life's ultimate petard-hoistings...

not sure why you would state something so confidently that is simply wrong.

It's more like economics, imprecise and liable to the whims of politics.

This study used a "food frequency questionnaire" - something known in nutritionist circles to be incredibly imprecise - and sent it out once every four years for 24 years.

Moreover, the total risk of death over the course of the study was less than 1%. And the risk of death among those who claimed to eat red meat everyday (and really, who does that?)...was, wait for it...ALSO less than 1%.

Meanwhile, the average risk of death among the US population for the subjects' age range was...2.5%

So what does that tell you? Participating in a nutrition study reduces your risk of death by 67%?

No.

It tells you that the subjects in this study are not representative of the population as a whole.

Unless they are actually counting calories and serving sizes.