Obama Forced an American to Strip Naked (& stand at front of his cell-for seven hours)

[Ichingcarpenter]

He's the fucking Commander in Chief
and the buck stops there.

Free Manning.

[leftstreet]

1. K&R

[BlueIris]

2. Ohhhhh, good luck.

Commence the onslaught.

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. Yes, I know ...over the top?.... Obama doesn't read?

or even know about this guy?

When his Vice President makes statements about Wikileaks?


yes..... they know

[MNBrewer]

22. Obama probably receives regular reports on the torture, too.

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. Excuse me......"enhanced interrogation"

We need to get our nomenclature right.

Yes he is very informed on what's going on
he's brillant, and I mean that in a true sense.

Of course he's informed....

And when his attorney general gave
bank of America the firm to destroy journalist
and wikileaks.... he knew that too.

He's no bush.... He is not misinformed.

[fittosurvive]

73. They also know who the real heroes are.

[MineralMan]

4. Pretty lame, really.

Oh, well.

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. Yes Manning is Lame as is torture to Americans

You think that they don't know what's happening
to break him?

I consider your thought on this lame.

You bet damn well he is in the briefings on Wikileaks.

[MineralMan]

12. You may consider my thoughts to be anything you wish.

Suit yourself. President Obama leaves the details of enforcement of the UCMJ to the military. He is not a micro manager on that level. Send him a letter and ask him what he thinks of that situation. That's my suggestion. I doubt if it's much on his mind.

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. Oh... right

You think Manning, Wikileaks are just something
that his Sec of State, his Defense Department and Vice President just talk about nationally and internationally and Obama is not 'involved'.


LOL.

[MNBrewer]

33. The buck no longer stops here....

It's more like "buck? What buck?"

[leftstreet]

8. If the Bush Admin had done this, DU would be melting down n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. Pay attention on how the Government has treated Wikileaks

From Hillary to Biden......
You think that in their briefings they don't know
what's going on with Manning?

Yeah right.

[GSLevel9]

16. and if YOUR quarterback is Big Ben...

you can excuse a little "rough foreplay"

:sarcasm:

[FreeState]

5. It was done two nights in a row now... it's pure homophobic humiliation

No one should have to be subject to this.

[Luminous Animal]

6. K & R.

Free Manning.

[Obamanaut]

9. As noted in the other, long, thread on this, the article linked in the earlier

thread states that Manning was naked in his cell for seven hours, and was made to stand at the front of the cell at 5 for count (roll call) - it does not state that Manning stood at the front of the cell for seven hours.

[FreeState]

11. It was done two nights in a row

PFC Manning Stripped Naked Again

PFC Manning was forced to strip naked in his cell again last night. As with the previous evening, Quantico Brig guards required him to surrender all of his clothing. PFC Manning then walked back to his bed, and spent the next seven hours in humiliation.

The decision to require him to be stripped of all clothing was made by the Brig commander, Chief Warrant Officer-2 Denise Barnes. According to First Lieutenant Brian Villard, a Marine spokesman, the decision was "not punitive" and done in accordance with Brig rules. There can be no conceivable justification for requiring a soldier to surrender all his clothing, remain naked in his cell for seven hours, and then stand at attention the subsequent morning. This treatment is even more degrading considering that PFC Manning is being monitored -- both by direct observation and by video -- at all times. The defense was informed by Brig officials that the decision to strip PFC Manning of all his clothing was made without consulting any of the Brig's mental health providers.

On Wednesday, the government filed its response to the defense's Article 138 complaint concerning PFC Manning's confinement conditions. The preliminary decision made by the government was to deny PFC Manning's request to be removed from Maximum custody and from Prevention of Injury (POI) watch. The defense now has ten days to file a rebuttal to this determination. After submitting the rebuttal, the matter will go back to the Quantico Base Commander, Colonel Daniel J. Choike, for his review. Once complete, he will forward the report to the Secretary of the Navy for final review.

Posted by Army Court-Martial Defense Specialist at 12:11 PM

http://bit.ly/efygdR

[Obamanaut]

14. Interestingly, the same thing happened - and it is NOT what the OP

posted. Here is the link to the earlier thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=555341&mesg_id=555341

And in your post we read "...Manning then walked back to his bed, and spent the next seven hours in humiliation..." which is NOT standing in front of the cell as stated in the OP.

You can see the difference, can you not?

[FreeState]

18. Either way it's wrong

I wasn't addressing that issue with my post but rather showing it was not a normal procedure as your post implied (or at least the way I read it did).

Humiliating/torturing citizens is wrong.

[Obamanaut]

24. Making up stuff is wrong also. nt

[FreeState]

35. Didn't see were I did that,but thanks for agreeing what was done is wrong n/t

[Obamanaut]

56. I agree that torture is wrong. I do not agree that being naked while

on a suicide watch is torture.

[MNBrewer]

59. HE IS NOT ON A FREAKING SUICIDE WATCH

[Obamanaut]

62. Bold caps will make it even more forceful. The precautions currently being

taken are to reduce the liklihood of self injury. Suicide watch under any other name...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=566308&mesg_id=566308

Glenn Greenwald in Salon

<http://www.salon.com/news/torture/index.html?story=/opi... >

"brig officials now confirm to The New York Times that Manning will be forced to be nude every night from now on for the indefinite future -- not only when he sleeps, but also when he stands outside his cell for morning inspection along with the other brig detainees. They claim that it is being done "as a 'precautionary measure' to prevent him from injuring himself."

Now. Inhale, exhale. Repeat as needed.

[MNBrewer]

65. They are distinct classifications

They are not the same thing. If he were on a suicide watch, he would BE ON A SUICIDE WATCH. He is not on a suicide watch.

Don't claim that he is, when he is not.

[Obamanaut]

So, if you can state that stuff should not be made up, then perhaps you

might want to 'alert' on the fabrication in the OP subject line, and the subject line (nearly identical) of the much longer thread.

[MNBrewer]

72. Deflection

[treestar]

83. How do you know? that sounds like exactly what it is

And if he kills himself, there will be no blaming of anyone else, right?

[sabrina 1]

105. And you're okay with Bush tactics to humiliate detainees

by violating the Geneva Conventions being used by a Democratic Administration against a U.S. soldier?

Common Article 111 of the Geneva Conventions:

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed 'hors de combat' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) taking of hostages;

(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

(2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.

I'm not sure what you are arguing for. Humiliation of a detainee is against the law, period. The treatment of Bradley Manning is illegal regardless of the number of hours he was standing or sitting while forced to be naked.

[MNBrewer]

36. So, are you discounting his mistreatment because it's not quite as bad as some people have said?

[Obamanaut]

64. Being naked is not mistreatment. He is in a cell by himself. It is to reduce the

liklihood of self injury. According to the various articles, some of which have been linked here at DU in various threads, he gets his garments in the morning after count/roll call.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Obamanaut]

71. I did, while under the euphoria of 'hopey/changey.' When there is another

screen name change amnesty, I'll change it back.

Hopey/changey hasn't been working too well.

[treestar]

13. Why should he be freed?

Then shouldn't every other person detained and accused of a crime?

[Arkana]

19. We oughta arrest that Obammy feller.

He's got the Lindbergh baby in his basement.

[Maru Kitteh]

23. Oh but he committed a crime we LIKE - so that's different. Bullshit like this is why I didn't donate

last quarter.

[MNBrewer]

37. Accused of what crime?

Are there any charges filed?

[NavyDem]

63. Here you go

Here is the initial charges http://www.scribd.com/doc/33963588/Charge-Sheet-Pvt-Bradley-Manning


Here are the additional charges filed the other day: http://news.cnet.com/2300-31921_3-10006905.html

[ReggieVeggie]

67. has he been formally charged?

and would any of these charges justify the torture he's been put through?

[NavyDem]

70. Those are the formal charges. N/T

[ReggieVeggie]

97. Do you think his treatment is warranted? N/T

[treestar]

86. Of course there are

Prove this is not according to the book of military procedure then.

[MNBrewer]

44. I for one didn't say to FREE him. I say STOP TORTURING HIM!!!!

[treestar]

87. A suicide watch is not torture

Unless you are willing to waive all blame if he kills himself.

[GSLevel9]

15. I'm SURE it was done WITHOUT Obama's knowledge!

:sarcasm:

[Arkana]

17. Obama shot a man in Reno

just to watch him die.

[malaise]

20. Well he should fire whoever did that

It's frightening.

[Obamanaut]

21. unrec because the subject line states a confinee was made to stand

at the front of his cell for seven hours, and the statement is not supported by any links - only that he was naked in his cell for seven hours.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[11 Bravo]

31. Yup. The FoxNews model comes to DU.

[Bobbie Jo]

79. +1000

Indeed.

[Sheepshank]

88. op isn't falling far from the faux "headliner" tree n/t

[MNBrewer]

38. So it's ok, because, while he WAS forced to be naked, he wasn't forced to stand?

[Bobbie Jo]

107. Of course not...

But when people continue to "add to the story," to fit their narrative...the truth gets lost.

See: Faux "News"

[qazplm]

26. I dont condone

what was done, if true, of course right now all we have is an allegation.

I will note to you that every single American who enters the prison system gets stripped naked and searched, and the allegation does not assert that he stood in front of his cell for seven hours.

I would like an investigation and if true punishment to those who did it and credit if convicted or compensation if acquitted to Manning.

I am not however going to assume that every ill in the military justice system is personally approved by Obama or that he has knowledge of and thus he did it.

[niyad]

49. this isn't about being stripped upon entering the system, but DAILY--please read the article

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[Ikonoklast]

41. Including breaking a military oath of service.

[MNBrewer]

42. Torture, even of duly convicted criminals, is illegal

Why excuse it in this case? Because he "DESERVES" it? Disgusting.

[Ikonoklast]

46. Sleeping in the nude is not torture.

Millions of Amercans sleep in the nude.


Manning is in a prison setting. He is not being tortured.


You are grossly overstating the conditions of his incarceration.

[MNBrewer]

48. Am I? Or you grossly understating the conditions of his incarceration?

You approve of his treatment, then? Fully embrace it?

[niyad]

53. millions of americans sleep in the nude BY CHOICE, which makes a small difference.

you don't think his treatment (when he has NOT EVEN BEEN CHARGED WITH ANYTHING) is not torture? seriously?

[NavyDem]

68. Read my previous links...

Manning has not only been charged, but those charges have recently been appended with new charges.

[madinmaryland]

52. How do you know he is not suicidal??

Yes. Amazing.

[MNBrewer]

55. doubly amazing

1. who WOULDN'T be suicidal after the mistreatment he has endured?
2. why is he not on suicide watch?

[BobbyBoring]

112. And that's the whole point

Why is he being treated like this PERIOD?

He EXPOSED the US military breaking international law. He exposed cold blooded murder. The entire focus should be on stopping the murder of innocent civilians, not punishing whistle blowers.

"They hate us for our freedoms"

Right~

[markpkessinger]

61. The Brig psychiatrist has refused to approve Manning being put on a suicide watch.

See: http://firedoglake.com/2011/03/05/sexual-sadist-denise-barnes-strips-bradley-manning-naked-over-sarcastic-quip/

[Swede]

32. That bastard hasn't delivered the mail yet ,either.

:shrug:

[MNBrewer]

39. Disgusting trivialization of Manning's mistreatment.

[Ichingcarpenter]

40. Gitmo isn't closed because they can't find a place

in the all of the US even at military bases there because
................39 prisoners are too much and we need
that Cuban base because nothing in the US is as good.

that one kills me and tortures others.

That whole base should go.... Close Gitmo
he said that .... but he can't because he's not powerful enough........LOL

OK... rant over
america go back to your charlie sheen, sex threads,
football union fights... and then meet each other
in Wisconsin when its over.

[pintobean]

43. You would be +500 recs if this happened 3 years ago

under bush.

[MNBrewer]

45. Yep! But NOW, it's A.O.K.

Disgusting!

[woo me with science]

75. Yep. There would also be outrage at his forcing crotch searches on citizens at airports. nt

[Bluebear]

94. Now it's an "ignored" magnet.

I can imagine them tripping over themselves to defend this.

[markpkessinger]

47. Not to defend the treatment of Manning, but in the interest of accuracy...

No, he was not forced to stand at the front of his cell for seven hours. He was forced to stand naked in front of his cell for the morning inspection, after having been deprived of his clothing for the night. Again, I'm not in any way defending the treatment he has been receiving, which is utterly appalling. But it's important to be accurate about these things.

[AlabamaLibrul]

50. The term is "is forcing". As in, it's still going on now. Abu Grahib all over again. n/t

[phleshdef]

51. Manning should not be tortured, degraded or executed. But HE BELONGS BEHIND BARS.

What he did was no petty crime. Either we respect the rule of law or we don't. You can't have it both ways.

[MNBrewer]

57. IF convicted!

On Edit: AND, his "crime" was embarrassing the wrong people. He's illegally being punished for it BEFORE being convicted. Imagine what his legal punishment will be!!

[Cid_B]

77. Umm...

His accused crime was a direct violation of his security clearance and privileges... not to mention his oath as a US service member.

On a second note... I would be incredibly happy if he spent the next 80 years all by his lonesome self. Possibly breaking big rocks into small rocks but I think I prefer the idea of a small cell with no windows.

edit: I can spell and use proper grammar.. I swear...

[jefferson_dem]

80. +1.

Some would argue he should swing for high treason if convicted. Not me...as I'm anti-death penalty. The 80 years in solitary sounds fair and proportional.

[tallahasseedem]

84. I agree...

+1

[Toucano]

103. How nice of you to move right to the sentencing.

Nix to all that trial bullshit!

[tekisui]

69. But he is being degraded, maybe tortured and is behind bars, without

a conviction even. And with the new trumped up charges from the Obama Administration he could face the death penalty.

[TorchTheWitch]

54. there was no standing in front of his cell for seven hours

either naked or otherwise. It didn't happen. It's a falsehood that for some reason an embarrassing amount of people here are determined to believe regardless of how many times it's pointed out even though the falsity was obvious in the original post on the subject except perhaps for those who can't read past a thread title.

Just why is it that so many people here WANT to believe that Manning was tortured in this way instead of RELIEVED that he wasn't? And why are so many people here falling all over themselves in order to continue spreading such a enormous falsehood?

[MNBrewer]

58. how do you know it didn't happen?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

74. How do you know it did? nt

[TorchTheWitch]

92. because the claim came out of one poster's own head

Whether it was somehow an honest misstatement or not you can decide for yourself. The original post on this topic which erroneously made the claim in the title of the OP that Manning was made to stand naked in front of his cell for seven hours was clearly belied by the snip of the article included with that post. Anyone who read even just the first two brief paragraphs of that OP would have known that he was NOT made to stand naked at the front of his cell for seven hours. This article was VERY specific in what Manning was made to do in this circumstance and written by Manning's own attorney where most everyone here has been getting nearly all of the information concerning the specifics of Manning's treatment and has been considered to be the Voice of Absolute Truth concerning Manning's treatment. And for the record, I have found this attorney to be quite believable and extraordinarily so compared to the far more common and usual lying defense counsel.

The ONLY source for the claim that Manning was made to stand naked at the front of his cell for seven hours was an erroneous thread title that went with an OP that clearly belied that claim.
Here is the thread in question...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=555341&mesg_id=555341

AGAIN, here is the portion of that same article written by Manning's attorney which was included with the OP (linked to above) that first made the erroneous claim in the title which gives a VERY detailed account of the incident....

http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.info/2011/03/confinement-conditions-worsen.html
03 March 2011
PFC Manning Forced to Strip Naked
Last night, PFC Manning was inexplicably stripped of all clothing by the Quantico Brig. He remained in his cell, naked, for the next seven hours. At 5:00 a.m., the Brig sounded the wake-up call for the detainees. At this point, PFC Manning was forced to stand naked at the front of his cell.

The Duty Brig Supervisor (DBS) arrived shortly after 5:00 a.m. When he arrived, PFC Manning was called to attention. The DBS walked through the facility to conduct his detainee count. Afterwards, PFC Manning was told to sit on his bed. About ten minutes later, a guard came to his cell to return his clothing.


Now, I ask you, HOW does this possibly add up to Manning being made to stand naked at the front of his cell for seven hours??? It VERY CLEARLY doesn't. Anyone that believes that it does or can be spun that way should go to the employment office at Fox News.

[tallahasseedem]

85. It's simple...

there are some here that will follow the FOX model to do everything in their power to bash the President.

[bluestate10]

95. Yep. Sad, but all too true. And they call themselves progressives. nt

[TorchTheWitch]

98. whatever it is it's freakish and embarrassing n/t

[Number23]

60. I see ain't nothing changed around here.

The stupid is still steep.

[Bobbie Jo]

81. Nope.

Knee deep in teh stupid.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

78. Obama didn't take out my trash yet...

or sweep the back deck...or score me an advance release of the IPAD2. Grrrrr...

[readmoreoften]

90. Yeah. Asking a president to stop the torture of an American GI is equivalent to demanding an iPad.

Do you people read what you write? If this was Bush, there is no way say such torture was out of his control.

Or, who knows, maybe you would...

[bluestate10]

96. An unsubstantiated claim made. What in the hell do you expect rational

people to do. I stand behind the President.

[readmoreoften]

99. It's been substantiated by his lawyer. Are you waiting for a military report on Manning's torture?

If you stand behind the President's refusal to investigate the torture of a US soldier he has imprisoned for releasing a video of other soldiers killing unarmed civilians, then you stand for the torture of whistleblowers. If you think that's the position of a "rational" person, I'd say you're as morally bankrupt as any given Tea Party rank-and-filer.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

89. No, it's Cheney and Bush or Rove. Isn't that what we said back in the day?

Now it must be mysterious bad apples.

[ZombieHorde]

91. Why did you claim, "& stand at front of his cell-for seven hours"?

Were you simply misinformed about this situation?

[Modern_Matthew]

93. We shouldn't waste time defending our leaders when our brothers and sisters are being mistreated. nt

[readmoreoften]

100. He did not force the whistleblower to strip. He just condones the stripping of whistleblowers.

Are you kidding? Obama would never do his own dirty work.

[uppityperson]

101. If he asked me, I'd strip for him. Wouldn't even have to force me

Free Manning indeed. But "Obama Forced an American to Strip Naked (& stand at front of his cell-for seven hours)" is hyperbole. What's happening with Manning is bad enough, don't need to inflate it more like this.

[canetoad]

102. I only regret

that I have but one unrec to give to this bullshit.

[11 Bravo]

106. Hell, Obama hopped on AF1, flew down and stripped him, and then laughed at his dick!

[Rex]

108. No no, that is a negative against Obama and we all know the man

Shits Tiffany 24k gold cufflings! NEVER wrong! EVA! Torture? Well it is a Dem POTUS, so it must be OKAY! :crazy:

Let me justify these actions for you - Obama is never wrong (directly or indirectly), so Manning is NOT getting tortured!!!

See!? The buck never stopped at the POTUSs desk...it would cause problems and we can't have that!

[ecstatic]

109. Keep this dishonesty up.. Newt, etc. thanks you

Keep encouraging apathy. Let's see where that gets us in 2012.

[Rex]

110. How is it dishonest to call torture when you see it?

The fact that it goes on under a D administration should bother you if you voted for Obama in 2008.

[ecstatic]

111. I don't know the details of the case, but I'd prefer a criminal to stand naked for a few seconds

than to have the GOP back in oval office in 2013. But that's just me. Priorities and all...

[Rex]

113. Er how does someone getting tortured equate into the GOP winning the WH?

And he is NOT just standing there naked for a few seconds...GOD this country is FUCKEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

[ecstatic]

114. "Obama condones torture!11!! don't vote for him next year"

That might as well have been the title of the thread.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

115. Seems like a helluva good reason to me.

[Rex]

117. I can't believe the lengths people will go to defend Obama!

Torture?

Sure if it is a D in charge, then it must be okay.

YIKES! Like I said, we are FUKKKD.

[Rex]

116. So you put party over principles.

Thanks. Not me.

[Bluebear]

118. Thank you.