Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Lakoff's words on tepid approach by Democrats, also Obama's shoes.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 08:31 PM
Original message
Lakoff's words on tepid approach by Democrats, also Obama's shoes.
From frigid Wisconsin a sign speaks volumes.


From Fred Klonsky's blog

Under the picture is a comment by Arne Duncan which tells us for sure he is straddling the fence. But then we knew that already.

Ed Secretary Arne Duncan thinks the Wisconsin governor and the unions should try to be more collaborative. Jeez.


I don't especially expect the president to go to Wisconsin. It would be nice, but it is not necessary.

I did expect our president and our Democrats to take a stronger stand on the right wing attacks on public employees, the efforts to destroy the unions by taking away any power to bargain. I did expect that. I did expect to see folks like Howard Dean who said that the unions built the middle class in this country. I have not seen him out and about saying much on unions right now.

He also said that we were losing elections because the party had turned away from its traditional constituents...

Dean said that as we crept to the right we began to lose elections.

From his book in 2004:

From his book "You Have the Power", published in fall of 2004:

Dean: "They turned their back on their core constituencies, in some cases under the guise of being "New Democrats." In fact, they relabeled their "core constituences" as "special interest groups," whose influence, they tried to tell the public, had to be avoided like the plague."

He refers to this quote from Time Magazine in 1995 in which Al From told Time that "a long-term majority will never be created around the interests represented by Jesse (Jackson) and the labor unions".

Dean further states that "the real problem, of course, is that Jesse Jackson and the labor unions form the core of the people who traditionally have elected Democrats. It is not an accident that members of labor unions and African-American voters became less interested in the Democratic Party as we crept to the right......we began to lose elections up and down the ballot with increasing regularity." END SNIP


Well, I am not seeing any major Democrats speaking out strongly in support of the Wisconsin public employees and teachers. Some have expressed as George Lakoff puts it..."tepid support."

From Alternet yesterday:

The Dems' Tepid Approach to What's at Stake in Wisc. Is Helping Conservatives Destroy Unions, Defund the Democratic Party and Take over the Country

The Wisconsin protests are about much more than budgets and unions. As I observed in What the Right-wing Assault on Women, Unions, the Environment, Health Care and PBS Is All About, the conservative story about budget deficits is a ruse to turn the country conservative in every area. Karl Rove and Shep Smith have made it clear on Fox: If the Wisconsin plan to kill the public employees’ unions succeeds, then there will be little union money in the future to support democratic candidates. Conservatives will be effectively unopposed in raising campaign funding in most elections, including the presidential elections. This will mean a thoroughly conservative America in every issue area.

The media, with few exceptions, is failing to get at the deeper issues.

.."The media — and the Democrats — also need to do a much better job on a sneaky conservative media strategy. The clearest example occurred in the NY Times. David Brooks, in his Feb. 21, 2011 column wrote: “Private sector unions push against the interests of shareholders and management; public sector unions push against the interests of taxpayers.” I turned on CNN that day and heard Anderson Cooper introduce the Wisconsin protest story as a battle between taxpayers and unions. These are massive distortions, but they are what conservatives want the public to believe.

The real issue is whether conservatives will get what they really want: the ability to turn the country conservative on every issue, legally and permanently. Eliminating the public sector unions could achieve that. Collective bargaining rights are the immediate issue, but they are symbolic of the real issue at stake. That is the story the media should be telling — and that Democrats everywhere in America should be shouting out loud.


Like the women's rights issues in which the messaging of the Catholic Bishops won...they met with Pelosi just before the vote on the health care bill.

Like the tax breaks for the rich. Right wing messaging won that also. The rich got a real deal there, and they hardly had to put up a fight. The cuts to Social Security began when the payroll taxes were cut by 2%...because the GOP will never let them be raised again.

Like the teachers having to fight so hard with no party truly standing with them.

I don't expect President Obama to physically put on his shoes and go walking. I do expect him and other Democratic leaders to take a much firmer and louder stand.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Awesome sign! That guy looks so cold - bless them all!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It does look so cold there. That takes such courage.
For teachers to stand up at this time takes more courage than most realize. Any FL teacher who protests will be under scrutiny.

Yes, bless them, indeed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Rest assured: beneath that wan smile of tepid support is a burning desire
to gnaw their own arms off, rather than be seen in public with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
33. Heh heh
One does get that feeling sometimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. The reason republicans are as successful as they are is because they are good at framing an issue
I wish more Democrats would listen to George Lakoff. He knows what he's talking about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Democrats are perfectly capable of framing issues when they're campaigning
:-(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I disagree
If Democrats were better at spinning things, or at least education the general public about the issues, the elections wouldn't be close. Most people who vote republican vote against their own economic interest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. You are right. The Republicans have controlled the messaging for years.
I remember when Dean tried to take some of the issues and reframe them, working with Lakoff. I remember that both were treated badly by the party leaders. Rahm's book criticized Lakoff so much it actually hurt his work.

So I agree, we do NOT do messaging well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Lakoff offered his services to the Party several years ago.
They told him he wasn't needed.

Assholes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. He worked with DFA I remember.
Edited on Mon Feb-28-11 12:27 PM by madfloridian
I thought Dean had him working with him when he was chair of the DNC. May be wrong. But Rahm's book The Plan really dissed him badly.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ahmen.... The working Americans don't move right....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Dear dem leadership: come to Jesus. Now. Nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. But he gives a pretty speech
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. You bring out the big guns when you're losing
We're not losing.

The only way this was gonna work for Walker was to ram it through quickly. That's failed, and Walker and the rest of the WI Republicans are getting hurt by it. A lot. Bringing in Obama or any other big name democrat takes the spotlight off Walker. And we don't want that.

Could the R's pull it off? Sure, a D could give in, but the prank call really helped reduce the chance of that. The first R senator caved tonight, opening the door for others to follow. And we only need 2 more.

When this situation is over, I would be very upset if Obama and the rest of the national Democrats don't say anything. But saying something now would hurt, not help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. jeff47. You are wrong. Right now we need solidarity.
With their absence, the leaders of the Democratic Party are showing that they are cowards -- afraid to demonstrate their solidarity with the working rank and file.

Wait until the next election. Then they will be asking union rank and file to support Democratic candidates. If they don't get out there now and support the union rank and file, there will be no union rank and file to support them when they need it.

This is the time for solidarity not silence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yes, Exactly! nt
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. With their absence,
the 'leaders' of the Democratic Party are revealing that they're continuing to morph into greedy pachyderms...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Ok, imagine Obama heads to Madison
The headlines change from Walker's thuggery to the Keyan socialist is interfering in a "states rights" issue. Instead of Republican union voters looking at what they have wrought, they get to yell about "Obamaism". The media turns completely away from the protesters and only talk about Obama vs. Walker as a horserace. With the spotlight off Walker and the Republicans the pressure on them reduces, allowing the Republican state senators to hold the line. The stalemate goes on much longer, and one of the 14 democratic senators is unable to stay in IL any longer. Bill passes.

You've solidarity'ed the unions out of existence so that Obama could make a pretty speech.

Walker and the Republicans in WI are making a mistake. You do not interrupt your enemies while they are making a mistake. Instead, Obama should show up to make his speech after the legislation goes down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. It's not the messaging
This is an actual grass-roots event. Insisting that Obama come in and "lead" is a disservice to all the people who've actually made it happen.

And, more importantly, Obama would not be a net benefit. He'd help in some areas, but he'd really hurt in others.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SharksBreath Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. They are already blaming Obama for his statement.
It's on Fuc news 24/7. Obama = Unions.

The problem is the statement from Duncan.

"Ed Secretary Arne Duncan thinks the Wisconsin governor and the unions should try to be more collaborative. "

Sounds just like Obama doesn't it.

Matter of fact Arne started the war on teachers. T Remember when all those teachers got fired. They didn't back them. This WH wants private owned schools. Private owned schools are all about Unions.

You won't hear anything strongly backing or supporting the unions because they don't.

They want the middle class to take a pay cut while they waste billions on wars and give the rich a tax cut.

We are on our own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Obama's blind allegiance to Duncan
Means he's never gonna go looking for those comfy shoes. That statement was made BEFORE he had Duncan as an "advisor". Now it's all those "bad teachers" that need to be side-stepped. Walker's doings likely make Duncan smile.

Hmmmmmmmm........ almost a DECADE in Afghanistan without a "victory". Shouldn't we dump the whole military and hire Xe???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. does Lakoff have even the slightest scientific proof for his assertions?
Edited on Sun Feb-27-11 10:47 PM by provis99
Seems mostly like some bloviating to sell a few books. People vote for Republicans because they identify with them, not because they are so dimwitted they get confused by simple words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
14.  I very much disagree with you.
People often vote for Republicans because they stand for things so strongly...they may be wrong but they sound strong.

Lakoff is right that we let them set the tone and take over the talking points.

And our party goes along with them and disagrees just enough to be different.

People vote for Republicans for what they think they stand for, and they don't really pay attention.

My neighbor said to me that he loved that Allen West. He said that he and Sarah Palin knew what they were talking about and never backed down. He could not follow through logically as to what they meant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yes, he does.
Edited on Mon Feb-28-11 03:13 AM by Hissyspit
http://explainer.net/2011/01/george-lakoff

Standard Lakoff-bashing because he says things people don't want to hear.

Shouldn't you be more outraged by AC's framing?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. That's a great link. I missed that one. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. hmm...
You may want to read about Bernays. Bear in mind that the entire advertising industry is built on 'comfusing' the hoi polloi with simple words and bright, flashy images.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I thought of Bernays too.
I recommend finding and watching The Century of the Self, a BBC documentary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
35. Thank you
will do. Meanwhile, I remain hopeful that we members of the hoi polloi will stop blaming and shaming, and making harsh remarks about each other. We're gonna get a lot further if we have each others' backs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SharksBreath Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. If that's the case then America is truly done.
Edited on Mon Feb-28-11 10:37 AM by SharksBreath
They actually believe poor people defaulting on loans caused AIG and the economy to crash.

They actually believe Saddam had something to do with 9/11 and supported going to Iraq.

They actually believe public workers make too much money while our tax dollars go to corporations who do everything they can to avoid paying taxes on the tax dollars they receive from US. They don't think they should pay taxes on their billions of profits.

The corporations and the rich need their money to create jobs.

To believe any of those things you have to be an idiot.

These same Republican states are nothing more than welfare states.

They would shribble up and die if it wasn't for the socialism of NJ, NY and CA.

I always say that when republicans speak ill of someone they are looking in mirror.

They hate who they are. They hate Unions because they work at a job without good benefits. So instead of railing against those who hold them down they support those who hold what they don't have down.

Crabs in a basket.

They don't identify with the republican platform. They believe that someday they will be in a position of power and don't want the government taxing them when they become a success. Even though they are paying taxes and live in states that hold our country down.

I've heard their arguments against unions. They feel as though unions give to Democrats so when a Democrat is in office he will give the union what they want. 99% of union workers are middle class and pay all of their taxes.

They have a problem with that.

Yet they support a party that get's it's money from corporations who receive bigger handouts from the government than all social programs combined and tax breaks while avoid paying taxes on the money they receive. So while they take our money they cheat on thier taxes.

That they can support.

They aren't dimwitted. If your not in the top 2% and vote Republican your an idiot who's most likely a hater and a racist.

That's who they are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. So true, so true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
15. Oops forgot the direct link to Fred Klonsky's blog.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
22. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
34. Great info as always MF!
K&R!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC