Hey, American Guys. I do not know your country. If you are ASSAULTED do you pay for treatment?

[sibelian]

I don't know how it works over there and am curious. What if some guy with a big stick hits you and you get damaged - maybe broken bones needing setting or something. Who pays for the medical treatment?

[Abq_Sarah]

1. You pay for treatment

And then you sue the guy who beat you.

And then you wait for hell to freeze over before you collect a judgment.

[olegramps]

84. If you are poor you suffer in silence, if wealthy you have insurance.

[olegramps]

85. It depends on who did it. If its the police you will be arrested.

[Orrex]

2. If you look "foreign," you'll probably be arrested for it

[sibelian]

7. Gosh. That sounds awful.

[Inchworm]

34. ...

:spray:

Bad, bad, bad...

[rucky]

3. You pay. You can sue and maybe get reimbursed in a year or so.

[sibelian]

4. Maybe? So it's not a certainty?

There's some legal structure you go through? Does he actually have to be convicted first? Or is it not a certainty even then?

[rucky]

13. Civil court doesn't require a criminal trial or even any charges.

But you take your case to court and take your chances. The only sure winners are the attorneys.

[sibelian]

20. Wah! It all sounds a bit hit or miss! CIVIL court???

And the opposition - surely they would have to pay your attorney's fees?

[Sgent]

44. Nope

in the US in almost all civil cases both sides are responsible for their own legal fees.

In all reality you would probably win the lawsuit -- for both medical fees and pain & suffering, but the assailant may not have the money to pay you, so your out of luck.

[treestar]

67. You would have to prove the case

It is not hit or miss. If you have a case you will have evidence.

You have to pay your own attorney's fees (the American rule). Though attorneys will take good cases on contingency.

The problem is where the defendant does not have insurance or deep pockets. You can get a judgment, but find it is uncollectible.

Most states now have funds for the Victims of violent Crime, which can help some if you qualify for that.

You might qualify for other help, if you are disabled.

[pitohui]

56. maybe get reimbursed in 8 years or so...a year or two, that's pretty funny

never been a plaintiff in civil court in louisiana or nevada, have you? in fact i'm curious to know in what state you get paid in a year or two

in mississippi a state where sometimes plaintiffs actually win an award...it's a decade or more getting there

no, if you're assaulted, you're fucked, been there done that got the tee-shirt

[EFerrari]

5. Are you kidding? Sarah Palin wanted rape victims in her state

to pay for the rape kits used to collect evidence.

[sibelian]

8. ... blink ... um

That just seems very very strange. It's like she's just trying to seem cold and nasty.

[EFerrari]

10. Cold and nasty is a virtue among our right wing nutcases here, too. n/t

[sibelian]

19. Yeah, OK, but what's the *political* gain? who benefits?

who's vote is she going for? People who just vote for nastiness? Surely they're imaginary! I find it hard to believe that anybody, however dim or bad-tempered, would seriously think of such a position as a good one to vote for!

[katnapped]

24. There's plenty of those people

Who believe someone that was attacked or beaten deserved it, ergo they'd have no problem voting for someone that would victimize said person.

[sibelian]

30. ??? Please don't be angry with me but

I can't imagine that the US is full of people sitting at the poll booths with their voting cards going "yeeah!! yeeeeahh!! screw you, crime victims!!!"

[Occulus]

47. I tried to PM you but you can't get PM's yet.... go read some of this:

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

This is a link to Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians. He's provided the entire book online for free, and it explains a lot of what's wrong with our country today. Unfortunately, his research, and other research his book is based on, was done in the aftermath of WWII. He was trying to explain the 'why' of the Nazi Party and the actions of Hitler and his brownshirts.

It's a very frightening book, at least for American with more than a pair of neurons to rub together, because it very accurately describes what's been going on here for the past thirty plus years.

Seriously. This book will freeze your blood if you start drawing comparisons and making connections to modern-day America.

[krispos42]

80. Ooo....

...thanks!

[May Hamm]

57. LOL! Read the DU a discussion about a teen deserving to be killed by a tiger

Right now there is an active discussion absolutely venomous about why a 17 year old deserved to be killed by a tiger that got out of a zoo enclosure. No proof of any kind that the boy did anything wrong but he deserved to die anyway. All the sympathy is for the tiger who apparently did the world a favor by ridding us of this boy that no one here knows a goddam thing about.

Yes all over the world there are people who insist victims deserved their pain or death. For example, start a discussion about women who go out of their homes at night. There are plenty of people right here at DU who insist those women deserve to be attacked or raped.

There are those who insist people who forget to lock their front doors deserve to be robbed.

Go into a poor neighborhood in an expensive car? You deserve what ever they want to do to you.

It's sad but true.

[EFerrari]

28. The tactic has at least two layers. On one, she signals to the corporations

that she is on there side as they bilk the people -- via cutting public services instead of asking them to pay reasonable taxes.

On the other layer, she appeals to people who have been brainwashed into believing that government is bad and should get no funds to spend at all. Who believe that paying for a rape kit is akin to a communist take over of their retirement funds. These people are in a minority but they provide cover for our elections which aren't very democratic.

[sibelian]

35. Yeah, but RAPE KITS?

I'm sorry, I don't get it. Didn't she hit a wall there?

[EFerrari]

38. No, she didn't. Right wing voters don't criticize their leaders

very often because they are authoritarian followers.

[uppityperson]

21. More like she didn't want people to report rapes. Makes one wonder why.

[sibelian]

26. I hope you don't think I'm stupid but is that a rhetorical "makes one wonder why"?

Because it certainly makes *me* wonder why! Do you think her desire to restrict rape reporting is.... um, acheiving something else?

[uppityperson]

29. Either she believes women are sluts and "rape" isn't "really rape", or else she knows a bunch

of guys who are raping people. With her having daughters, I cannot understand why she would do this except believing women are saints or sluts. Or, in the case of her "unwed pregnant daughter", both. I put that in quotes since I really don't care if someone has done a legal thing before getting pregnant.

The AK legislature passed a bill after she did that making this illegal.

[sibelian]

33. phew. so she got thwarted.

I'm glad. I think she's absolutely grotesque.

[May Hamm]

46. Grrrr... The only Alaskan victims she wanted burdened like that.

Sarah Palin sucks.

[Blue_In_AK]

53. The legislature had to pass a special law

forbidding her from doing that. It was only in Wasilla.

[onethatcares]

6. well, once you get out of the hospital

you have said person arrested, said person sits in jail for 6 months until trial comes up and cops a plea to lesser charge, then you sue in civil court to recover loss of wages, damages, hosptial/doctor bills and you get a judgement in your favor(about two years later), judgement is worthless due to said person having no house, no job, no anything leaving you to have a judgement placed against you which hospital/doctor can foreclose on if they feel like it.

I guess you pay for your bad luck. Sorry.

[sibelian]

11. Oh, wow. I hope you don't mind my saying, what with my being foreign, but...

I think that is a very, very, very bad system...

[Orrex]

12. What the hell do you know?

You drive on the wrong side of the rode and use the godless metric system, for pity's sake!

[sibelian]

17. Yeah, but the BEATLES!!!!! so there.

ner. ;)

[Orrex]

41. And the Spice Girls, lest we forget.

[sibelian]

63. Pah! VANILLA ICE, dude. Actually - let's not escalate this.

Looking back over recent pop history it could get pretty ugly...

[Orrex]

66. One hundred years from now Vanilla Ice will be appreciated for the genius that ...

No, I can't even finish that statement.

[sibelian]

74. O_o u neerly sed it

[hlthe2b]

25. and they actually think people have a right to health care!

Good heavens! Bloody British socialists :sarcasm:

[WinkyDink]

15. Where are you from?

[sibelian]

18. UK. It is quite different here.

No medical costs at all, ever. For anyone. All covered in tax. I was just curious about assault cos I got assaulted once.

[WinkyDink]

27. Ah. Hey, I know; I went to one of your emergency wards---gratis! AND in Portugal (2X), N'lands, and

Canada.

ALL FREE to me as a TOURIST! And the Amsterdam visit was to an opthalmologist (I thought my retina was detaching).

[sibelian]

32. Yar, tis so.

You sound a little unlucky, though! O_o I hope you're feeling better.

[onethatcares]

37. oh, now you're gonna get all uppity on us, eh?

ya know we beat ya'lls butts 200 years ago and if we can't have for profit health care, then no one else can.

so there.

Jeeez, this united but divided states of america is a crazy lot if one were to view it from the outside, isn't it?

we've come to the conclusion that it's not how good you treat the least of those among you, but how good you treat the wealthiest that'll get ya into the pearly gates.

I think I want to live in England, or at least Canada.:hi:

[Arugula Latte]

50. It's crazy if one were to view it from the outside ... or inside.

[harun]

49. We all call it a bad system too. It isn't based on compassion or justice. It is based on profit.

[bobbolink]

51. Yes, it is grotesque. Do you have room in your country for me?

I'd like to be around real human beings for a change!

You know... the kind with hearts.....

:hi:

Thanks for posting and bringing this home to us.

BTW, this country is soooo swell to live in that I am living in my car. Don't you wish you could be here, living in your car, and paying for your own treatment after being victimized?

[sibelian]

62. Pretty sure there's ALWAYS room for more lefties in the UK!

C'mon over!

[May Hamm]

60. What nation pays victims the expenses of crimes committed against them?

What 'system' do you advocate?

What country pays people when they are assaulted?

[sibelian]

68. My country does. Well, theoretically it does. There AREN'T any expenses.

... because all medical expenses that might be incurred are already paid for by tax and national insurance. Also - crime victims get compensation in some cases - state funded compensation.

Actually your post threw me a little. The whole idea of "victims expenses from crimes committed against them" is something I had to think about before answering your question. I was like: "crime victims have EXPENSES?"

As for systems I would advocate - the system in my country. It was very helpful to me when I was assaulted - no issues at all.

[sibelian]

71. Well, assuming you're US based - YOUR country does in some states, it seems - see #65

:D

[Dappleganger]

64. Where are you from?

[sibelian]

69. I am Scottish UK type guy.

Scotland's a little different from the rest of the UK, but has NHS also.

[hlthe2b]

23. Then, you get hounded and ultimately may go bankrupt...

At which time any future employers can use that adverse information from your credit report as justification as to why you can not be hired. It is currently possible for your present employer to do periodic credit reports and thus use it as justification for your termination--because late payments, failure to pay, is of course reason to believe you are not trustworthy. :sarcasm: I wish I were kidding, but I am not.

[sibelian]

36. Holy fuck.

I had no idea.

[Orrex]

45. If you ask about those employment-based credit checks here in GD...

You're likely to receive as many replies aggressively defending the practice as attacking it.

It's a sick, baseless practice that should be outlawed. I'm sure that the financial giants who ran our economy into the shitter all had spotless credit records, so one's credit rating is ultimately a poor indicator of one's corruptibility or the damage that one is apt to inflict.

[bobbolink]

52. No, but you see, it is all worth it.

Our streets are paved with gold.

:rofl:

[pitohui]

58. you have said person arrested, here's another funny one!

in what state does the person who assaulted you sit in jail for more than 24 hours if that without killing you? in louisiana, it's known as the "90 day homocide" -- you sit in jail 90 days for fucking cold blooded murder and that's it, no one goes to jail for merely beating the crap out of someone

not anyone who ever hurt me that's for sure

we have a problem with our laws, a bad problem, and while i don't buy the OP's naive act, i assume this person has a very good reason for the pretended "shocked, SHOCKED that there is gambling going on in rick's" type act

we all know good and well that if you're a crime victim in america your life is likely spoiled

we have a case right now in new orleans, a 19 year old was BLINDED so that the scumbag could steal a pizza, a fucking pizza, for this, he has destroyed a life, it would have been better if he'd killed him

[sibelian]

75. Please do not accuse me of a "naive act".

I live in the UK and I always have and I don't understand your system. The reason I asked about criminal injuries is because I thought the US might make an exception for victims of crime and if you look at the responses to my thread you will see that in some States they do!

Even if it WAS a "naive act" I don't see what your objection to it would be given that the thread highlights a difficulty with your laws that you don't want either!

I am gay and may be visiting your country soon to attend a wedding. I am, on sight, very OBVIOUSLY gay and I know that assaults against gay people in your country are not unknown (nor in mine) so I wanted to know whether the medical treatments cost money. Probably it would be okay, but I wanted to know.

Please do NOT assume you know things about me or that you necessarily have understanding of my motivations.

[RocketTuna]

81. He's legit

Having just recently moved to the UK, I can vouch for the blissful ignorance that most UKers live in regarding the horror that is the US' lack of a reasonable welfare state. Whenever I get tired of their habits for understatement and reserve, I just start telling health care horror stories. Works like a charm.


Chances are, Sib, you'll be fine (which state are you headed to?). But, it's never a bad idea to check your options. Here's a place to start:

http://www.travelhealth.co.uk/advice/insurance.htm

[sibelian]

82. Many thanks, RocketTuna, it would be New York

Which i am looking forward to!

[Silent3]

9. It can work out in many different ways...

If you've got medical insurance, your probably pay for your care yourself up front, via your medical insurance, and might be paying for some out-of-pocket deductible directly.

If you want the guy who hit you to have to pay up, you have to sue him. I'm not sure about this now that I think about it, but your insurance company might sue the guy even if you don't because they'll want him to pay instead of themselves.

If the guy who hits you doesn't have any money to get via a lawsuit, you and the insurance company are probably stuck with the bills.

If you don't have any insurance, hospital emergency rooms will usually treat you no matter what. They might delay your care, however, sometimes endangering you by doing so, by shuffling you off to a different hospital.

If you don't have insurance, you probably can't afford a lawyer. A lawyer might take your case without you having to pay unless he/she wins your case and then gets paid via a big cut from any eventual settlement. If your attacker doesn't look like he has deep pockets, chances are a lawyer wouldn't take your case without being paid up front.

The hospital will want to be paid, and they will come after you for their money, billed at higher rates than they charge when you have insurance.

All it all, it's pretty barbaric, and what little health care "reform" we've gotten recently might make things a little better in time, but not so much right now.

[WinkyDink]

14. Your body, your payment. In a nutshell.

[cynatnite]

16. Some states have funds specifically set up for this...

My nephew was the victim of a crime in Kansas. His health costs are covered and the person who injured him will make restitution to the state.

[sibelian]

22. Ah-ha, that's sensible. I hope your nephew is OK.

If you're going to have costs for healthcare then having state funding for criminal injury certainly helps.

[RagAss]

31. We pay....then we get the asshole later...when he's forgotten the incident.

At least my folks do.

[Motown_Johnny]

39. Presumably your insurance, and if the guy gets caught you can sue for damages

including any and all medical costs

[Liquorice]

40. When a drunk driver hit us, her insurance paid for all the medical bills. As

for victims of assault, I think there are various state programs that pay the victim's medical bills. I don't know whether that's true for all states.

[sibelian]

77. I did think that might be the case, thanks for responding.

:)

[Pirate Smile]

42. Your insurance pays and then, if it is a criminal case, the court can make them pay for the damages

as part of the sentence or you sue them in civil court for damages.

It would have to get adjudicated in court as to whose fault it is first unless they offer to pay or both reach a deal on a settlement of how much they have to pay or do.

[madrchsod]

43. you pay then you have to sue the the person who attacked you...

[Safetykitten]

48. We pack heat. So we have that going for us. You can't.

So we would not get attacked in the first place.

[bobbolink]

54. Boom!

[sibelian]

73. It's time for my favourite picture.

[pitohui]

55. YOU the victim pay...and women get assaulted too, how do you figure only guys get assaulted?

scumbags attack the weak, and women, small effeminate gay men, children, and so on are far more likely to get assaulted than mike tyson

you the victim pay, and if by some weird bizarre chance your attacker has assets (he is usually a crackhead with nothing) you can sue and hope that after 6 or 8 or 10 years when the case winds into civil court (no right to speedy trial in a lawsuit) the jury will give a damn about you and give you something

of course since many juries also hate women and the weak (self hatred is actually a large problem w. americans and hatred of the poor/middle class -- and you WILL be poor once you are assaulted and can't work) means you are unlikely to be awarded anything

i am a victim of multiple violent crimes, i have borne the entire cost, probably millions over my lifetime if you include lost earnings -- being victim ALSO means you will not be hired for any job -- if you have had a lawsuit and sued someone (and it wasn't a traffic accident) you're unemployable because employers think you will also sue them

[bobbolink]

59. .

:hug: :cry: :hug:

[JoePhilly]

61. I get the sense the OP used "guys" as a gender neutral plural ...

I grew up in Philly and it was very common when speaking to a group, of guys and girls, to say something like "Hey, what are you guys doing tonight?".

In some languages, the formal plural for a group might be masculine or feminine, or gender neutral.

As another example, also from Philly, it was common for some one to say, "Hey, what are yous (pronounced "use"), doing tonight?". Where "yous" was a gender neutral plural for a mixed group.

My point, I do not think that the OP was being gender specific.

As for "who pays" ... that actually depends. If you have insurance, your insurance will usually pay, and then they will look to recover as much as they can from the attacker, which in many cases is not much. But the burden is usually on them to recover the money.

Your case sounds like one of the worst situations, in which lacking insurance, YOU have to pay (rather than insurance) and so it is YOU (and not the insurance company) who has to go fight to be reimbursed.

As other posters have noted, some states have funds to help victims, but those too are not ideal.

[sibelian]

76. This all sounds very bad.

I hope things change.

[NNN0LHI]

65. Illinois has a Crime Victim Compensation Program

http://www.ag.state.il.us/victims/cvc.html

Crime Victim Compensation Program


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Crime Victim Compensation Act was established by the Illinois General Assembly in 1973 with the primary goal of helping to reduce the financial burden imposed on victims of violent crime and their families. The Illinois Crime Victim Compensation Program can provide innocent victims and their families with up to $27,000 in financial assistance for expenses accrued as a result of a violent crime.

The Crime Victim Compensation Act states that the Office of the Attorney General has the statutory duty to process all claims by investigating each claim to determine the claimant’s eligibility. The Attorney General’s office then makes a preliminary recommendation to award or deny compensation. Ultimately, the Court of Claims (a division of the Secretary of State’s office) makes the final decision.

If you or someone you love is having difficulty coping with the long-term effects of a violent crime, please call our toll-free Crime Victims Assistance Line for more information about compensation and other statewide victim services: 1-800-228-3368 (voice/TTY).

[sibelian]

70. Ah-ha, makes sense. 27,000? sounds like a lot!

I assume that would be very serious cases with long term legal and medical consequences?

[Liberal_in_LA]

72. +1000 for OP

[RedCloud]

78. If an empire assaults us, we simply open up a can of revolutionary whoop ass.

[sibelian]

79. Hey! It wasn't MY fault.

Anyway, as mentioned further upthread: VANILLA ICE.

[slackmaster]

83. People are always responsible for their own medical costs here

You have the right to sue someone who assaulted you (i.e. to recover your costs from the person who really SHOULD pay them).

[fascisthunter]

86. we live in a sociopathic system run by criminals

who claim to be just doing business. Americans don't care enough about each other... more egregiously care more about personal wealth than their own neighbors. Not all.... just those living well off the current system the way it is. You see them even here occasionally trying to defend the current system.