Judge bans man with low IQ from having sex

[The Straight Story]

Judge bans man with low IQ from having sex

vancouversun.com

A man with a low IQ has been banned from having sexual intercourse by a High Court judge who admitted the case raised questions about "civil liberties and personal autonomy".

The 41 year-old had been in a relationship with a man with whom he lived and told officials "it would make me feel happy" for it to continue.

But his local council, which provides his accommodation, decided his "vigorous sex drive" was inappropriate and that with an IQ of 48 and a "moderate" learning disability, he did not understand what he was doing. It started legal proceedings to restrict the relationship.

A psychiatrist involved in the case tried to prevent the man being given sex education, on the grounds that it would leave him "confused".

...

But he agreed that the man, known only as Alan, should not be allowed to have intercourse with anyone on the grounds that he did not have the mental capacity to understand the health risks associated with his actions.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Judge+bans+with+from+having/4225699/story.html#ixzz1D2RzFmoF

[niyad]

1. does that mean no repukes can have sex, including rush and the other cretins?

oh, wait, this is canada, right?

[icnorth]

12. Britain. Reprinted from the Daily Telegraph by

the Vancouver Sun.

[madokie]

21. I doubt that pedoboy can get it up actually

[Octafish]

40. El Rushbo came back from the Dominican Republic with a sizeable amount of Viagra.

Rush Limbaugh's Dominican Stag Party

[madokie]

55. An illegal prescription as I recall

anyone else would have been charged but not the nazi boy

[lame54]

78. that's what the Dominican Republic is for

[Shagbark Hickory]

2. Sounds more like h8 to me.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

3. Well that's fucking stupid, or not

Sorry, I know it was in poor taste but I couldn't resist.

[derby378]

4. What are they gonna do if he violates the ruling?

Throw him in prison? Castrate him? Come on. There's got to be better solutions than this.

[Cid_B]

9. The way I read it...

... they would go after the person he had intercourse with.

[Blue-Jay]

50. What if that person had a similar IQ?

There's a lot to consider in cases like this.

[originalpckelly]

54. This story is vague.

No information is given about the functioning of Kieron. It is just assumed on our parts that this Kieron is any higher functioning than Alan.

You read that story a couple of times, and it starts to sink in that this is an order that is too broad.

Maybe if Alan has a serious and incurable STD, maybe then he should be prevented. But that's not given in the story.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

74. Sure throw him in jail, one place he'll not have to worry sexual intercourse

:sarcasm:

[Voice for Peace]

5. you don't need a high iq to feel happy

[seabeyond]

7. +1. nt

[vim876]

79. Actually...

In many cases, it's counterproductive.

[11 Bravo]

6. And yet George W. Bush and Sarah Palin each have offspring.

[hyphenate]

60. lol! eom

[Barack_America]

8. How do you consistently find these bizarre stories?

Is there a "crazy shit in the news" website I'm missing out on?

[seabeyond]

11. i know. i have wondered, too. nt

[Goblinmonger]

43. My Guess...Google Alerts

Some well worded ones will send them right to your email.

[Book Lover]

This is what I don't get: he apparently was already in a consensual relationship

And this story doesn't give any indication that the relationship he was in was hurtful to him. I'm not saying that isn't a possibility, of course, but if it were, wouldn't that have been included in *this* story? I can understand someone worrying about an adult who nonetheless can't consent to sex, mental capacity-wise, absolutely. But *this* I can't quite get my head around. If it were a medical doctor instead of the local council making this decision, well, ok, I wouldn't necessarily feel better, but at least there would be a patina of respectability to the decision. This just sounds like local politicians doing the old CYA dance.

[dixiegrrrrl]

15. It's about homophobia.

"The 41 year-old had been in a relationship with a man"

Notice the man he had been in a relationship with was not targeted.

Tho you gotta wonder about him, having sex with someone whose IQ is that low.

If the 41 y/o had been a woman, with an IQ that low, under American law it could be called rape
( at least for now).

[originalpckelly]

17. Why?

How would you want to be treated if you had an IQ that low? Would you want to be treated any differently? Why shouldn't you be able to enjoy your life to the fullest, especially when there is no chance of procreation in this case?

And even if you did do that, do you think it is more ethical to endorse eugenics or more ethical to endorse universal human freedom?

[dixiegrrrrl]

24. there are laws on the books that define "ability to give consent"

and one of those definitions is mental ability. Agree or disagree with the law, that is the law.
Having sex with someone who is determined not capable of giving reasonable consent is usually part of rape laws in most places. ( and usually applies to women, children).
One of the considerations in this particular case is the question of the male being able to make judgment about
STD issue, I would imagine.
I am not arguing for or against the court's decision, I am stating what current laws apply in this country.

and again I state: if the man has an IQ of 48, why is the law not looking at his sexual partner?

[originalpckelly]

29. Because the man with the IQ of 48 is not a child, he's a mentally disabled man.

He probably likes sex just like any other man. Why should we presume that he's not capable of giving consent? What exactly is consent?

If he makes a sexual advance on the other partner with a higher IQ, doesn't that imply that he desires sex?

Biologically, his hormones are different from those of a actual child. They probably most resemble those of an adult with a higher IQ.

A actual child is going to be damaged by sex, because it is not biologically possible for the child to have a libido like an adult. The hormones are simply not there. Think back in your own life to the point when you were a child. Did you really have the same kind of sexual feelings that you do now? I know that they were different for me. The most I had was curiosity, not actual sexual interest like I do now. I think most people would agree with this, unless they had to endure an early onset of puberty.

Then fast forward to the point when you entered puberty. You're hormones are now raging, and you want sex. BUT YOU'RE YOUNG and even though you may have those feelings, body wise you're not the same as an adult.

You also don't have the practical experience to really give consent. Experience that doesn't come from anything but years, actual life experience. No matter what you read in a book, or see in some educational movie or class, nothing compares to actual experience.

Alan has probably had actual experience. I'm not a psychiatrist nor did I evaluate the guy, but I think the statements of the psychiatrist are highly offensive and paternalistic.

If you watch the movie Monica and David, which chronicles the marriage of two individuals with Down's Syndrome, an illness that usually entails an IQ around 50 points, you'll see that their relationship with one another is actually very similar to that of other couples. Yes, there are difficulties, and they did live with Monica's parents in the observed time, but the love they had for each other could not be denied. I do not think that a high IQ is needed to have love for another person. And if you're in love with someone, wouldn't you usually consent to having sex with them, at some point?

Here's a link to the film:
http://www.monicaanddavid.com/

Of course someone with any disability, I include myself in that because I am disabled, we'll have special troubles fitting into life.

Any one of us is a stroke or a car accident away from traumatic brain injury, one that might lead us to have an IQ of 48 but leave us with the ability to have sex, and the desire to do so. Would you want someone to tell you, you couldn't have sex with your loved one after such an accident, because you could no longer give consent? What if you were single? Would you not want the possibility of being able to be in a sexual relationship?

I think in this case there is an obvious difference between someone with a mental disability, someone with the IQ of a child, and an actual child of the equivalent IQ. The law needs to recognize this difference and try to care for people with respect to it.

With Alan's case, one needs to place one's self in his position and try to determine whether or not consent would be given to the partner with a higher IQ. If he's a nice guy, who genuinely seems to love Alan, why not? Make him legally responsible for protection during intercourse, if Alan is not capable of doing so himself.

It's not the same as an actual child, we all know that. The world should craft a unique solution for people like Alan, rather than wielding the same old solution/law used on underage minors.

[Oak2004]

30. Do you know anyone with an IQ of 48?

I have. And an adult with an IQ of 48 is capable of consent.

Furthermore, under US law they do have a right to form consensual sexual relationships.

Why would you think a low IQ adult would not have all the normal urges and desires associated with high IQ adults? And why would you want to deny them the right to as normal a life as they are capable of?

[Liquorice]

32. I do, and he molested a couple of boys in his neighborhood. Should he

go to prison for molesting those boys? According to you, he knows what he is doing sexually, so he must know he was committing a crime, right? He was in his 20s when he molested those boys and has an IQ of about 45. So should he be in prison? The court ruled he was not capable of understanding what he did, by the way.

[riderinthestorm]

39. Yup. I personally know social workers who work with mentally challenged men

and they spend most of their time in court defending them against sexual harassment, sexual abuse and sexual assault charges. The mentally challenged men do not understand that children are off limits, or how to have an appropriate sexual relationship. They are acting on their libido first without the impulse control required to make sure they act appropriately.

One guy I knew at a living history museum I worked at (writing grants) was the manager of 5 half-way houses in PA for mentally challenged men. He was a first class social worker who got so disgusted at the system that he gave it all up and became a historic restoration carpenter instead. 15 years as a MSW, trying desperately to do good, and the system beat him down. He said the men are like children but with a man's libido. It was really discouraging.

[originalpckelly]

42. What they obviously need to do is structure their lives...

so that they can enjoy life to its fullest, without being around children, so they won't harm any kids. I think that's about the most humane thing to do.

Just put yourself in the position of the mentally challenged man with those urges.

And then of course, put yourself in the position of one of these children who might be molested.

So what we need to do is structure their lives accordingly to allow the best world for both. Make these guys stay away from kids, at least in an unsupervised manner, and let them have sex with those who are willing to have sex with them.

[riderinthestorm]

51. Waaayyy easier said than done. They are the baggers are the local grocery,

the stockperson at the local Petco. And has been proven in many, many instances, it only takes a moment for a child to be molested. There are threads on DU already about kids being molested in grocery store aisles and elsewhere where the parents have lost track of the kids for 5 min or less.

I don't have a solution. Neither do the people I know. Like I said, the one friend I have opted out entirely, saying there was no solution. Right now society is intent on integrating the mentally disabled into the community. And there are predators - yes, mentally disabled "innocents" who are also predators through no fault of their own but predators nonetheless. He was unwilling to go to bat for them anymore.

[Hannah Bell]

82. mentally disabled are no more likely to be "predators" than anyone else. that's ridiculous.

[riderinthestorm]

84. These are stories from MSW workers in the field. Not mine. nt

[Hannah Bell]

85. so what? msw are just as likely to be bigoted idiots as anyone else. & sexual predators, too.

[Odin2005]

64. That reminds me of Lennie in "Of Mice and Men"

George has to shoot him because the farm owner was rounding up a lynch mob to lynch Lennie after he fondled the owner's daughter.

[Liquorice]

68. You have the story wrong. It wasn't the farmer's daughter, it was his

wife and Lennie didn't "fondle" her, he accidentally killed her.

[Odin2005]

77. DOH, it's been a while since I've read it!

[originalpckelly]

37. Precisely.

That's what's being missed here. A kid who's 8, which is what this man's development has been compared too, simply doesn't have the same hormones rushing through his body that Alan does.

There's such a profound lack of empathy here. No one's thinking what it's like to be poor horny Alan. I put it bluntly, but just try to imagine what that's like.

And the strange and lewd gestures he's said to have made towards children can happen with anyone who's mentally ill and hypersexual. We don't take away their right to have sex with adults, now do we? We might even encourage that they focus on adults.

And it's not like his lover was a one night stand.

Alright, Alan can't make good decisions about protection, make the lover responsible for that.

[Book Lover]

18. Well, I must be the world's biggest idiot riught now

because I swear that that had not occurred to me. As to your other point, well, what can I say? I have a mentally disabled child, and I hope one day my child finds a good person willing to spend his or her life with them as a life partner. Maybe I'm a fool, with impossible dreams, but that's where I come from on that.

[Book Lover]

10. delete double post

[seabeyond]

13. whereas, i read an op not long ago talking about ental hospital, they put women/girls on BC

and let everyone have at it....

[Book Lover]

14. Oh god

I...I don't know. Maybe that is a better choice.

[originalpckelly]

16. Hey, if it feels good to him, why not let him do it?

Why should he be treated any differently from any person with a higher IQ? It's not like you have to worry about procreation, right? Is the man he's in a relationship with HIV+ or something? If not, then why not let them have their fun. I think this is seriously anti-gay. You could probably find tons of heterosexual couples who do this, with one partner having a low IQ.

And even if they were hetero, do you think it's acceptable to endorse eugenics?

[The Straight Story]

26. Well, here is the problem - say someone has sex with somene else

and that person is considered 'mentally challenged' - is it rape? I see stories off and on of people being charged here in the US with rape in such cases.

What if they claim the person they are accused of raping 'wanted' it? Could that person testify in court?

It just seems to be an ugly situation.

[originalpckelly]

38. Actually, I refer you to this couple who was the subject of a documentary:

Both of them have Down's Syndrome. If they're like most with Down's Syndrome, their IQs should be very close to that of Alan's. They got married and they have had sexual contact of some type. They had guardians to protect them from abuse, and they eventually ended up living with Monica's parents in a very nice specially made apartment.

http://www.monicaanddavid.com/

They could consent, now couldn't they?

What I think needs to be done is to have a guardian to evaluate the potential partners of the person in question with the lowered IQ, to make sure there isn't some type of rape or other abuse going on. If that can be done, then at the very least they should be able to have sex with other people in the same IQ range with similar developmental disabilities.

I agree with you, this is an EXTREMELY difficult issue, but I think the paternalistic and almost Orwellian decision here was probably made in haste and not enough due process was granted Alan.

[Liquorice]

19. Maybe he isn't intellectually capable of consenting,

and therefore they truly are protecting him. If sex education would confuse him, as the psychiatrist says, then I think he probably isn't capable of true consent. If he can't understand STD's and how to protect himself from them, or what rape means, he probably isn't capable of a consensual sexual relationship.

[TheWraith]

22. In US law, this would be considered "rape," even with consent, if the partner has normal faculties.

The article doesn't specify exactly whether the partner is developmentally normal, which is a big question mark.

It's worth mentioning that an adult with an IQ around 50 has the rough functional level of an 8 year old child.

[Liquorice]

23. I was wondering about the "partner" too. I suspect he's developmentally normal. nt

[originalpckelly]

25. Interesting.

Most individuals with Down's Syndrome have an IQ in around 50. I have watched a beautiful documentary about two folks getting married who had the syndrome.

It's called Monica and David.

Now that's two individuals with similar IQ and the same syndrome. But if these two could give consent to each other for relations, what exactly keeps it from happening with a lopsided IQ?

Why not create an arrangement where the partner with the higher IQ is the guardian for the other partner? Why not make him legally liable to ensure that proper protection will be used during intercourse?

[TheWraith]

27. Legally, many kinds of power differentials are considered unacceptable for a consentual relationship

If it's assumed that, say, a 14 year old doesn't have the maturity and understanding to consent to sex with an "adult," why is it acceptable for an adult to have sex with someone who has the mental capacity of an 8 year old, even if they do have an adult body? There's a much better argument for respecting the 14 year old's ability to understand and consent than in this case.

In the case of pairings between people with developmental abnormalities, such as Downs, the question of one partner having an unfair advantage over the other is erased.

[originalpckelly]

35. How do you know the people with Down's aren't raping each other?

If they're simply not mentally capable of handling sex, why is it then perfectly legally for the two of them to have sex? They can't consent, now can they? We've established that under your argument, haven't we?

Why doesn't it universally apply?

If they can give consent to sex between themselves, why not for individuals without developmental disabilities?

Appoint a guardian to oversee the relationship to ensure there isn't any abuse going on.

And to compare AN ADULT with developmental disabilities to an actual child is preposterous.

1. A 14 year old doesn't have an ADULT body. I remember being 14, I did have lots of sex drive, more so than I do today. But I wasn't ready for sex because my body was physically immature.
2. A 14 year old hasn't lived as long as an ADULT, with or without developmental disabilities.

We have to look at other areas of the law where there is great inequity between the partners. A male/female who is 50 something and a female/male who is completely legal, but only 18. Isn't there a vast gap in life experience between the two? Isn't it possible that the older one is somehow manipulating the younger one? But we don't regulate that, do we?

And just exactly what IQ is too low? And what disparity is too great?

The most important thing to do is use empathy to put yourself in the place of the man named Alan.

He has not only been forbidden to have sex with someone without a low IQ, but also with a low IQ, even equivalent to his.

That's what I suppose I'm most troubled by. I could see the whole disparity between two people, and I can see the great possibility of abuse. I give you that.

But the whole thing smacks of control of humanity in a sick and inhumane way. I fear the consequences of this type of stuff would be much worse than any possible abuse.

[TheWraith]

69. The key phrase is differentiated responsibility.

The basic idea is that consent cannot exist when one party is in a position of power over the other. This is why it's not legal for, say, a prison guard to have sex with an inmate, even if it was the inmate's idea. That's why it's not legal for an adult to have sex with someone who's legally a child. In this case, you're talking about a person with the mental acuity of an 8 year old. If the partner has a normal level of development, then you have a very problematic situation.

I don't see why it's "preposterous" to compare someone with an adult body and the mental faculties of an 8 year old to a child, except that putting it in those terms presents a good example of why someone with full adult faculties engaging in a relationship with them is disturbing.

As for 14 year olds having sex, many are quite mature. My ex-girlfriend was having sex at that age. So, for that matter, was my mother. Both had a greater ability to understand the nature and consequences of their decisions than a 41 year old with an IQ of 48.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Major Hogwash]

28. Yeah? My dad tried to stop me, too.

But it didn't work.
I found someone dumber than me and we mated.
Like a pair of dumb bunnies.

LoL

[Hosnon]

31. It'd only make sex hotter for me. Breaking the law each time, haha.

But seriously, the judge should be ashamed. Good luck enforcing this one your "honor".

[Forkboy]

33. In other news: 99% of Forkboy's relationships have been illegal!

There was that one case in the summer of '84....

[sufrommich]

34. 35 posts in and nobody's made an Idiocracy joke yet? nt

[kenny blankenship]

36. The law, as it so often turns out, is a r****d

What's the point of this? If the man is considered to be too retarded to understand "what he's doing" -or the possible consequences of having sex- or however you want to phrase it, then why would anyone think he could possibly understand the consequences of what he's doing when he violates the ban placed on him having sex in the future?

[Seeking Serenity]

41. This reminds me of the old U.S. Supreme Court case of Buck v. Bell

wherein Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. wrote the majority opinion upholding the forced sterilization of a mentally disabled woman.

"It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. (citation omitted) Three generations of imbeciles are enough."

Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 204, 207 (1927).

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=274&invol=200

[BlueIris]

44. Gross. The ruling, not the IQ-challenged man. nt

[Rex]

45. Um, er, uh, hm, well,

isn't that special?

[DailyGrind51]

46. Great! Teabaggers can't breed, then!

[Zywiec]

47. Can a girl of 18 with an IQ of 48 consent to sex? n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

48. Okay, lets imagine this story with one slight difference...

The individual with an IQ of 48 is a woman, who doesn't believe this thread would be discussing the sexual abuse of the mentally disabled, probably combined with graphic descriptions of how the offenders dong should be publicly removed?

[yurbud]

49. I agree. Unless the other person is equally intellectually limited.

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. I don't agree.

People with developmental disabilities have as much right to happiness as the rest of us.

I don't think a differential in cognitive ability necessarily means exploitation.

We need more information than IQ scores to reasonably judge.

[Zywiec]

52. Yep, that's the point of my post right before yours

If it were an 18 year old girl with an IQ of 48 consenting to sex, it would be horrible.

[originalpckelly]

53. This ruling not only prevents Alan from having sex with his lover...

it also prevents him from having sex with someone with the exact same IQ.

Alan is also not 18.

Do you see the problem now?

If you want to see two people who are married and have around the same IQ as each other, which is probably in the same area as Alan's, watch this movie:
http://www.monicaanddavid.com/

I think it's beautiful that they got married and they will be living together, if everything works out in the long run.

They live with Monica's parents. But who's to say they shouldn't be able to live together in some type of supervised setting later on in life after her parents pass away?

Does an extremely low IQ mean you cannot love someone? Or lust after them? If it is another person, who's an adult, why not?

Put yourself in that position, imagine your life, and how you would feel.

What would you want? Would you want people to treat you differently, if you were sexually mature in every physical way? If you wouldn't be traumatized by sexual activity like a minor child would be, then why shouldn't you be able to have sex if you want it? How would you feel to have those desires, but know you'll never be able to act on them ever again with a consenting adult partner? I could understand out of the normal things like rape or molestation, but that's not be alleged here. Alan had sex with his lover who was an adult.

AND BY THE WAY, the story explicitly states, though I think we all misread it, that Alan and Kieron lived together in a council house. This may or may not mean that Kieron himself was mentally disabled. The article doesn't give you that information. We all just implied that Kieron was taking advantage of Alan, when it may very well be he's like himself.

If you really read the story over and over a couple of times, the whole nature of this starts to sink in. This action was the result of a law that was recently passed in 2005 that gives the state quite a number of powers over the mentally disabled, some of which I don't know if I agree with.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

56. still don't see the problem

Suppose Alan finds a willing female partner resulting in a pregnancy... how will Alan financially contribute to the childs upbringing? Suppose Alan finds a partner with severe visible venereal disease, being too confused for sex education how does Alan protect himself from infection?

While it might not be politically correct pretending the severely disabled are capable of adult responsibilities is ridiculous.

[Bluenorthwest]

71. Alan lives with his male lover. They cohabitate

What makes you think he is interested in finding other 'willing partners'? This is a man aged 41, many years of being a sexual person, no? What bad results has he had since teenage years? Decades of doing what he does.
I know tons of straight men of allegedly average IQ who have gotten any number of STDs. Why didn't they protect themselves? Were they unable? It seems that by your logic, anyone who gets an STD should be ordered to refrain from sex as getting one proves that they are too confused to protect themselves from infection, does it not? Nothing here says Alan, at age 41, has ever had any STD at all. Nor have I for that matter, although again, I know lots of men, women, straight and gay who have. Even the visible kind. Which of course would be far less common in a nation with free universal healthcare, not like in America with untreated everything running amok.
Thoughts? Is infection itself proof of inability to protect one's self from infection? I think it is. So what then?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

72. There is a big difference between ignorance and incapacity

This individuals orientation or degree of promiscuity isn't the issue, the issue is according to the article psychologists have deemed him incapable of comprehending sexual education, therefore incapable of the most rudimentary efforts of self-preservation. This is protecting somebody who is legally defined as an imbecile (sub-50 IQ) from himself and possible predators.

Why isn't the age of consent six?

[originalpckelly]

75. The reasons, as I can ascertain them:

1. A child of six is not as physically developed as a person who's at least 18. Their body is not attractive to most in the population because of this.
2. A child of six doesn't have the same hormonal makeup of someone 18 or older. They literally do not have the same libido, I remember that I was curious about sex, but I wasn't actually sexually interested in the same way I was post-puberty.
3. A child of six will find sex traumatic. They do not have the libido of the older adult person, thus meaning that sexual activity doesn't mentally affect them in the same way.
4. They haven't lived enough years to have day to day practical experience with the subject, in the same way that someone who's 18 has had that experience.

You want to protect him from predators? Appoint a guardian to oversee any relationships he has. OK, forbid him to have sex outside that approved relationship, but don't keep him from the possibility of enjoying life to its fullest.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

80. and somebody who functions at roughly that level?

By the looks of it somebody already has intervened to protect him, seemingly as you suggest.

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. +1

[Hippo_Tron]

57. I think there would be more of that, but I think some would still be saying she can consent

IMO this is a pretty interesting ethical dilemma.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. My feelings about the topic would be unchanged.

The bar justifying government involvement in the private affairs of the developmentally disabled should be quite high, regardless of gender.

[hyphenate]

58. My brother suffered severe brain trauma in an accident

when he was 18. He is now 52, and still knows enough to head into the bathroom and lock the door before he starts looking at his magazines and masturbating. It doesn't matter--sex drive is there, and while he might have a low IQ, the real question is whether he finds his sexual activity pleasurable. He's an adult, and unless someone is his guardian, he should have the mind to make his own decision.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. You can't have an IQ of 48 AND a learning disability

Lost me there.

[Odin2005]

61. An excuse for homophobia. asshole judge.

[Zywiec]

66. What's the IQ of a 13 year old girl?

Would it be an asshole judge to prevent her from what feels good?

[Odin2005]

67. A 13yo is not an adult.

[Zywiec]

70. So age is the only criteria?

An 18 year old with the IQ of of a 10 year old is fair game?

[Odin2005]

76. Everyoneseems to be assuming his partner is not mentally disabled

I have no problem if both people are mentally handicapped. They are adults and have adult urges.

[Dappleganger]

73. My aunt had an extremely low IQ...

she was deemed as mentally retarded (that was their term back then, not mine). She did live with my family from time to time as she was passed from one sister to the next each year (my mother's sister). What I think is that it's ok for a mentally challenged person to have sex as long as it's not with someone who could possibly take advantage of them. It should be someone of equal or pretty similar disability, and there should be regular checking in done by the social case worker. I do know for a fact that my aunt was sexually assaulted on multiple occasions in mental facilities, especially later in her life (she has now passed on). It would not surprise me one bit if she was assaulted by others earlier as well (there was evidence of that). One problem is that she if you asked her things that happened she wouldn't always tell the truth, she would often make things up just to not get into trouble.

[xchrom]

81. wow -- very complicated with not a lot of details.

i have concerns about people with low iq like alan -- because it can be said almost anyone is taking advantage of them -- including organizations designed to help them.

i have to wonder about the relationship with the other person that it rang bells for those organizations that react with alan.

very interesting -- if he isn't able to consent to have sex how is he able to take care of himself period?
does he now have to move?

who takes care of him then?

[RegieRocker]

83. Wrong, should be a ban of people having sex with low IQ's

unless closely the same IQ. That would make more sense. This does not.