The vote is over. So, why is everyone still sitting around?

[brooklynite]

I've been reading for days here about how President Obama is a sellout and an appeaser. I've seen people say they'll never vote for him again, and demand a primary challenger in 2012. And my question is: why are you still here?

Notwithstanding Senator Sanders' speech or delaying tactics in the House, you must have known the tax/UI bill was going to pass. So, you've had days, if not weeks to get organized. And, time's running out, you know. The Republican candidates are already in the field, testing their tea-party approved messages, and they actually have it easy. You have to find someone who meets your political standards (Kucinich and Grayson voted for the bill), convince him or her to run against a still-popular incumbent President, help him or her raise a hundred million dollars or so, and build a campaign network that can turn out the anti-Obama votes in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. Sitting at your computer and waiting for someone to come along and do the work for you isn't going to accomplish anything.

I, for one, plan to work within the system, supporting the President and the Democratic leadership but using my contacts and contributions to push for the issues I think are important and are achievable. Will I be disappointed? On some issues, probably. But I'm level-headed enough to know that half a loaf is acceptable when there's no practical way to get a whole one.

How about you?

[Egnever]

1. Brilliant post!

K&R

[Aramchek]

2. they would rather hold their breath until they pass out. they're sure it'll work.

[Egnever]

12. As evidenced in the posts below

Same sad story over and over. Same cast of character's too.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. I, for one, applaud your "...work within the system..."

Luck.

[Statistical]

4. Stop being level headed and reasonable.

Everyone knows Obama should have magicked the votes that weren't there. Baring that he should have watched as the largest tax increase in modern history hits the middle class and UI benefits run out over Christmas.

No compromise. We will "win" even if it means the poor die in the streets.

[rug]

5. I have several million unexpected dollars I have to spend first.

[Supersedeas]

54. Funny - great retort

[Hannah Bell]

6. "ahievable". yeah, maybe the next tax cut could be smaller?

[whatchamacallit]

7. These posts crack me up

"I'm going to work within a corrupt system to achieve stuff the president doesn't want!" Knock yourself out.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whatchamacallit]

21. How do work with a president who doesn't share your ideology or values?

Wake fucking up!

[sharp_stick]

36. If I was unable to work with people

that don't share every value or ideology with me I'd have one hell of a time even functioning at work never mind in society as a whole. Ideological intransigence in anybody isn't a virtue as far as I'm concerned.

I work with people every day from across the political spectrum and somehow I make it work, we get stuff done. If you can't or won't work with people that don't share your ideology and you're able to make it work good for you.

I'm a Dr., now a research scientist how far do you take ideology? Should I refuse to treat someone that I know is a right wing asshole? I'm also an atheist should I refuse to carry out tests for religious people?

[whatchamacallit]

39. If I was a doctor I'd treat republicans

but I wouldn't vote for them.

[lamp_shade]

41. Oh that was brilliant.

[sharp_stick]

43. See you aren't as ideologically stiff

as you thought. ;-)

All joking aside, a pure ideologue would not treat a Republican if that was the core of their ideology. It's like the asshole pharmacists that refuse to provide a legal product, prescribed by a physician, to a young woman because they consider that legal product to be against their belief system.

We often have to work with people that don't fit our values, you don't have to vote for them but you should be able to work with them.

[DeSwiss]

8. I, for one, say FUCK the system.

I don't think it's worth saving. It needs replacing.

[jtown1123]

9. This president will never stand for Democratic principles. Good luck.

[lamp_shade]

10. Thank you.

[walldude]

11. Nope sorry.. not level headed at all..

I don't see human rights or unemployment as "bargaining chips" to be used for political expediency. I don't trust that the Democrats are doing everything "achievable", matter of fact, I know they aren't. I don't like it when the President has nice taxpayer financed lunches with the CEO's of companies that are shipping jobs overseas. I don't like it when the Government works for corporations and banks and the people can just go suck an egg.

As far a challenger to Obama. Laughable. If you think I care enough to worry about who the nominee is you are sadly mistaken. I'll go hold my nose and vote as usual, but as far as involvement in the process, I'm fucking done. No more time or money from me.

[Lucky 13]

13. What makes you think we're doing nothing?

DU is hilarious like that. It's as if people presume everyone else here is a loser typing away in their mothers basement with no job, no connections, no knowledge, no activism, no plan. That is likely projection, to one degree or another.

Well I can assure you that is not the case across the board.

Many of us have made careers in politics, or advocacy, or unions, or fundraising. Many of us work in Washington. Many of us work for, or with, Federal agencies. Many of us have connections - to politicians, to funders, to thinkers.

And many of us are not "still sitting around".

[brooklynite]

22. Please enlighten us...

I spend a great deal of time tracking what's happening in advocacy and political campaigns, because at some point most of them knock on my door looking for support. I'm aware that PCCC is threatening to withhold support from Senators and Congresspeople who voted "wrong" on the tax/ui bill, but that's not quite the same thing as working against them, and it's miles away from working against the President's re-election. So, please give us a head's up on what's being planned, and who's willing to dip a toe in the water -- who knows, you might find some more support.

[Lucky 13]

31. Exploring primary options is not working against anyone.

And frankly, I think it would be a good thing for OUR party.

But you are missing entirely the point of my post. The point was that you have no idea who you are talking to on DU, or who is reading. You have no idea who does what, or works for whom, or what is happening behind the scenes. Neither do I. Neither does anyone.

So, to ASSUME that everyone here a pathetic, no-nothing idiot sitting around with no other outlet than pouting and typing away their frustrations on DU is a mistake... and makes you look extremely foolish.

But lets be honest. If you really thought that, then why would you waste your time posting here?

No. You know we're here. You know we're working. You're only point is to try to kick progressives while we're down.

Duly noted. And expected. You take your lead from the top.

It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[rurallib]

14. I think I'll wait until Social Security is gone to back them.

[Andy823]

16. Good post K&R

Couldn't have said it better, thanks!

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leveymg]

18. Are you suggesting that those who opposed the Raw Deal should leave DU or get off their

keisters and organize a primary challenge? The way you worded your post suggests both.

Am I misreading you?

[brooklynite]

27. Everyone has the right to complain...

Everyone has a right to oppose the policies of the President and the votes of the Congress.

Everyone has a right to make their arguments about why the compromises that were made are unfair/immoral/unethical, whatever they think

It's the blustering about primarying people they don't like, third parties, "revolution", etc. followed by...nothing, that I find tiring.

[leveymg]

30. A lot of the "bluster" is just protest with emphasis. The fact is, DC doesn't listen to opposition,

and this is a desperate attempt to effect policy now, even if the threats aren't well thought out.

I understand your fatigue listening to this, but honestly, short of just BOHICA, there really is no other course of action open to people than bluster. This is a message board - people are messaging. If you can't take listening to it, take a break for a few days. Just don't tell people to shut up - that denies them their last outlet.

[quinnox]

19. unrec

for castigating tone

[Egnever]

20. What a surprise

I am shocked I tell ya!

[somone]

23. Now where's my damn checkbook

Is it "Campaign to Re-elect Bush '12" or what

[Erose999]

28. If given a choice between Jeb or Obama, I'd probably not vote.

Ain't like there'd be much of a difference. Obama has done nothing but further the Bush agenda of corporate welfare and letting the rich pilfer the public treasury.

[damntexdem]

24. Damn Dems.

Screw it.

[Hello_Kitty]

25. "...and are achievable" The Overton's Window of political activism. eom

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. Joke all you want but --

my 78 year old Mom who has been a solid Democrat just about forever is pissed as hell about this last vote and told me via IM around 5 minutes ago that she is considering a Party change to Independent or Green.

I am shocked, to say the least. But if my Mom is talking like that, the shite has officiall hit the fan.

[rsmith6621]

29. And my question is: why are you still here?

.......I did not know this was THE OBAMAUNDERGROUND

[brooklynite]

32. Last time I checked, I was a Democrat...

I support Democratic office-holders who support equal pay for women, improving health-care access, providing unemployment insurance during periods of economic downturn and are working to eliminate DADT. My expectation is that the average Republican would take a more negative opinion.

[Clovis Sangrail]

33. "still-popular incumbent" ?

don't most polls now have his disapproval higher than his approval?

I'm in a pretty blue part of Fl and prior to/just after the election there was *huge* support around here for him.

Now?
not so much ...
It's a safe bet that he won't drive the same sort of turn out numbers in 2012 and our county will go from blue to red.


:shrug:

[brooklynite]

35. President Obama is tracking about where Ronald Reagan was two years out...

I recall he did pretty well in his re-election bid.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html

[whatchamacallit]

37. That's because he's just like him (nt)

[lamp_shade]

42. brilliant reply

[Lucky 13]

49. !!

:rofl:

Oh it's funny and its true.

[Clovis Sangrail]

47. apples and carburators

Reagan came into office on a wave of people upset over gas lines and weak foreign policy.
He promised a more business friendly environment and a stronger international presence.
To some extent, he delivered what the people who elected him wanted and they came back 4 years later to keep him in office.
The people who got him into office and kept him there were similar to today's tea partiers.

Obama came into office on a wave of voters upset over an over-reaching foreign policy and tired of the appearance of incompetence.
He promised a change from politics as usual and to clean up some of the messes left to him.
So far his decisions seem to be rooted in the same type of political expediency calculations and a number issues that got people to come out in 2008 (Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo, healthcare, tax cuts for the rich) are essentially unchanged.
He's not delivering on what the people who elected him wanted.
(yes significant change was made with hc reform but I doubt enough to generate any votes ... if anything capitulation on various aspects will *cost him votes)

I'm not saying that Obama hasn't accomplished anything - he has.
I'm also not saying that his behavior is particularly surprising - it isn't if you had read his books prior to the election.
However, a LOT of people voted for the *hype* that was "Obama" - and I think that it's very likely, after he's so clearly demonstrated that many people's "hope" was misplaced, that many of these people will simply sit out the next election.

I don't recall Reagan being confronted with similar circumstances for his second election.

[RickFromMN]

34. I am unhappy with President Obama, but don't believe a primary challenge is a good idea.

If we have a primary challenge, I believe it will be like 1980 all over again.

Kennedy challenged Carter in 1980. Carter won the primary.
We got eight years of Reagan.

I do not believe a primary challenge will help our party.

As much as I am disappointed with Obama, I'm certain I'd be more disappointed with a Republican.

I wish Obama would voluntarily limit himself to one term so we could get a Democrat, who will fight, in his place.

[Clovis Sangrail]

51. I've been pondering this as well

Nothing frightens me more than the prospect of a president Palin or Gingrich and right now I think it looks like Obama is on course to be a 1 term president.

I hope in the next 12-18 months he hits some serious home runs publicity-wise.
Barring that I hope he does as you suggest and voluntarily limits himself to 1 term.

[ecstatic]

53. Sorry to break this to you, but no democrat will ever please you 100% of the time

Grow up!

[Clovis Sangrail]

55. this isn't about being pleased 100% of the time

I realize it's easier to just dismiss those critical of Obama in this way ... but it really points out that the person relying on this reasoning is being unrealistic.

Ignoring the people who are unhappy with Obama for legitimate reasons is perilous to our party.

[bigwillq]

56. ALL incumbents should face a primary challenge.

It's called democracy.
That being said, I don't think Obama will face a serious challenger in 2012.

[DemocratAholic]

38. i never said those things but...

if i may be so bold as to speculate about people who may have stated those things, my impression is that they were probably speaking out of anger. i would bet that given the circumstances that Obama is the Democratic nominee, and faced with the choice of Obama vs. Republican candidate, they probably will support Obama. from my own experiences, i have often noticed people often say things when they are angry that they don't always really mean, and that time has a way of healing wounds. i hope they do remain, even if they did support a primary challenge, because i would assume whoever might be a primary challenger (i doubt that will happen) may have a healing effect for those people and help to unify the party behind the Democratic nominee. just as Hillary Clinton eventually had a healing effect on the party after a very contentious primary campaign in which folks on both sides were saying things that were quite disconcerting. if your goal is a Democratic presidential victory in 2012, i'm not sure it is wise to say things to try and marginalize these folks any more than they already feel marginalized within the party. it may come off sounding like gloating or sticking the knife in further when they are already feeling the pain of their disappointment. remember, these are people who basically believe the same things as you, and are inclined to vote Democrat, and probably would never vote Republican. trying to suggest they shouldn't be "here" isn't going to help any of us. as long as they are still "here," i think that's a good sign for the party. let's not add gasoline to this fire.

[TomClash]

40. We're Progressive Democrats

We want a more progressive agenda and we want the President to fight for it. We understand compromise but we don't exactly swell with pride when we see the leader of the Democratic Party fold with a wink and a smile before the hand's been dealt.

This wasn't about what's "achievable." That's a false framework. This vote was about Obama ensuring his re-election and nothing more. He wants to neutralize the opposition of the wealthy by giving them more goodies, like the Roth IRA conversion giveaway, which did not have to be in the bill. That's just one example.

People like Bob Cesca and you taunting us really doesn't help the situation at all. Many of us were significant campaign contributors in 2008 and we probably won't be again. Progressives do most of the work in the Democratic Party and the so called "pragmatists" should think twice before they speak. They may think we "have nowhere to go" but the truth is we don't really have to go anywhere. Among other choices, we can stay home and keep our cash and put our labors to more productive uses, tweeting along the way, "good luck to you and your Blue Dog/Republican friends."

[Paladin]

45. Nicely Put, TC.

Good response to the OP's attempt at copping a superiority complex.....

[Lucky 13]

50. If we want a more progressive democratic agenda, then maybe we should find a progressive candidate

To pull the party to the left through the primary.

[harvey007]

44. I am reminded of a cartoon...

...of two guys hanging chained to a wall in a dungeon. One guy says: "so much for working within the system."

I am also reminded of a great old movie...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA8drfZwnXQ

[bowens43]

46. No thank you.

I'm not wasting anymore time, effort or money. Unless Obama and the Dems make a 180 degree turn and actually start trying to work to further the Democratic values they once claimed to represent, I'll be sitting the next one out. So far, for the last two years I have seen them furthering the interests of corporations and the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class. I refuse to be an enabler any longer.

[closeupready]

48. What did you decide to do about that matching drive thing?

I would like to contribute in my small way. :hi:

[mmonk]

52. I don't have to be hit continually over the head.

Nor do I continually need to be lectured to. Time will tell. I do not support continuing Reaganomic philosophies into perpetuity. Are you cutting the ties to us now?

[Rex]

57. Me? I live in reality and understand how the system works.

Goodluck with your ideals, why are YOU still sitting around? Go go go! :eyes:

[dembotoz]

58. Because i am still a democrat and so i belong here--not so sure about obama

[treestar]

59. K&R

They are doing nothing. They will be here in 2012 supporting the President. After he wins, they'll go back to complaining.