OWS Message and Tactics

[Nuclear Unicorn]

Poll question: OWS Message and Tactics

There seems to be uncertainty about OWS and the opinions of the support among DU faithful.

[Scuba]

1. I would suggest that OWS's critics should consider the alternative....

... movements that are available. OWS isn't perfect. OWS isn't going to be perfect.


But just changing the national dialog from the debt to income disparity is an enormous success.

[TBF]

2. Agree - I think they've done as well as can be expected given conditions.

I support them 100%.

[randome]

3. Agreed.

But let's keep moving forward. Don't shut out help if it doesn't come from within the echo chamber.

People who aren't open to suggestions surely aren't representing the 99%. Maybe the 95% or the 80%.

[Harmony Blue]

47. I concur because it puts those

that were on the offensive about the deficit on the defensive now.

[SidDithers]

4. K&R for more replies...

Good poll.

Sid

[Zorra]

5. "ill-defined message, poor tactics" lol. Don't expect many

replies from the group that voted for the option in quotes above.

[bigtree]

9. who wants to be shouted down by paranoic defenders of the OWS nebulon

. . . claiming that the movement is actually threatened by words uttered on DU.

[Zorra]

20. Ooh, the personal attacks just keep coming. Keep 'em coming.

They bolster your position immensely.

[Johonny]

6. if their message is poor and tactics bad

why are they breaking up the camps, why are they smearing the protesters on FOX? The establishment isn't acting so strongly against OWS because it isn't working.

[randome]

7. It's pretty clear to me.

Protesting and the right to assemble are not the same things as camping out for an indefinite period of time on public parks.

And FOX is a cesspool of ignorance so what else would you expect there?

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. "Camping out in public parks"

is a RW meme...for the record.

[randome]

14. It's MY phrase.

I chose it. No one chose it for me. I don't listen to Fox or Limbaugh or any of them. All my news comes from DU and Talking Points Memo. Nothing else.

And it shouldn't matter what right wing imbeciles say. To be open to advice or help from others should over-ride everything else.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. But it is...sadly.

[Nye Bevan]

31. What should we say? "Erecting tents and sleeping overnight?"

I live on a public street and would be fine with protestors and demonstrators. But I would be pissed if they set up a squalid encampment with all-night drumming.

[Fumesucker]

10. There is a time limit written into the first amendment?

I'm constantly impressed by what I learn on DU..

[randome]

15. Of course there is no time limit.

But all our rights -no matter how enshrined in the Constitution- have limits. You do not have the right to peaceably assemble in someone's home. You do not have the right to protest inside a day care center.

The discussion should be how OWS concentrates its resources and tactics for economic equality, not to prove to the Oakland police that people can camp out where they want.

[Fumesucker]

16. Some judges have disagreed with your position.. n/t

[randome]

19. And some have agreed.

Which is why many of the OWS groups are being pushed out of public parks.

So you think there should be no limits on our rights under the constitution? That's anarchy and if that's what you think OWS should be, more power to you.

I happen to believe time is being lost to side issues while not enough is being done to pressure our legislators for greater economic equality.

[Fumesucker]

22. How do you think we should "pressure our legislators"?

:shrug:

[randome]

26. The march on Wall Street is a step in the right direction.

A march on Washington, maybe? I go back and forth on that one.

If OWS were to be better organized and have spokespersons and leaders, we might assemble larger crowds somewhere, if not Washington.

I don't have all the answers but I am dismayed that time is being lost butting heads with local cops instead of focussing on economic inequality.

We cannot change politics without getting political. We need a louder voice, not just more voices spread across the country.

More protests and less fighting with cops. Assemble and disperse. Assemble and disperse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. I keep saying GO TO YOUR LOCAL GA

Or not....

Here you ain't gonna make a difference, or get involved in a movement more to your liking.

[Fumesucker]

37. You might recall the coverage given to the protests at the first Dubya inauguration..

You know, when the presidential limo got egged and Dubya had to scurry away from the traditional walk.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. You are obtusely confusing

PRIVATE PROPERTY with PUBLIC SPACES.

Oh and judges have already disagreed, as well as a few city councils.

Oh and finally somewhere Jefferson is doing summersaults. He understood that those PUBLIC SPACES are essential for democracy.

[randome]

23. I am not disagreeing with the idea that public spaces belong to everyone.

But people who are not part of OWS have a hard time using those public spaces when they are taken over by tents and large groups of people.

THEY have rights, too, and that's why a balance is always struck between the rights of groups and the rights of individuals.

Do you think that people who are not part of OWS should give up their right to use a park because protesters want to stay there indefinitely?

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Here is the problem

Those spaces have been systematically taken away and closed off over the last thirty years...or so...and will continue as we privatize everything in sight.

[randome]

30. Again, a side issue.

I thought OWS was about creating economic equality, not protecting public spaces.

Or do you see OWS as some kind of super-hero team that will right all the wrongs in the world now?

Every time someone wants to offer help, we get more items added to the list of what OWS is about.

It's ridiculous.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. It is about equality

Having spaces where to gather and DISCUSS is part of it. I can't help you. I seriously can't

You are stuck, even if you do not realize it...in RW memes.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

36. It's never been legal to take-up long term residence in public areas

Hence, vagrancy laws (which seem rather unfair to the homeless IMHO, but the laws and case precedence are there pre-OWS).

OWS's biggest hope is for a private space owner to permit them to set-up camp. Of course that takes out some of the Occupy-iness of OWS and Permitted-to-Camp-Out-on-Wall-Street just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[Mr Gerrity]

25. But the Supreme Court has already agreed

7-2 June 29 1984

Clark v. Community for Creative Nonviolence

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0468_0288_ZS.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. This is about to be re-argued

Go ahead, try to hold a political rally at your local mall.. I dare you.

[Mr Gerrity]

29. Great news

Is on the docket this year?

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Will make it's way with the slew of cases

Argued right now. You can count on it.

[Azathoth]

46. Really? When are the SCOTUS oral arguments scheduled? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. As soon as a few cases make their way

In case you have missed it we have a few ongoing.

Of course given the poor state of reporting i'd not expect you to realize this.

[KittyWampus]

49. LOL! Was that about long term camping?

[Mr Gerrity]

52. Did you read it?

Seems pretty pertinent to the current situation to me.

[vcc]

13. Fox & Co are exploiting the situation from many angles.

[bigtree]

11. I think the mayors are more concerned about commerce, business, and appearances in their towns

. . . than they are about what's been spoken by protestors.

[randome]

17. Of course they are!

That's their job!

They have little to do with changing the laws for greater economic equality so why are some OWS groups determined to butt heads with them?

Time is being lost on side issues.

[kctim]

39. Breaking up the camps

because they are breaking laws. Smearing on FOX because far-left protests.

[Azathoth]

44. They're breaking up the camps because the municipalities are tired of them

OWS was lucky to go two months before this happened.

Large cities just aren't going to allow ragtag groups of people to live indefinitely in the local parks. If that was truly free speech, the homeless people of the country would have one hell of a class-action lawsuit.

[KittyWampus]

45. They are breaking up the camp in NYC because a public park is NOT A CAMP GROUND.

[Morning Dew]

12. Why don't they

just become incredibly wealthy and buy influence?

That's the American Way.















































:sarcasm:

[BOG PERSON]

33. silly message, silly tactics, but...

OWS still deserves to be taken seriously. because can anybody believe there's a psuedo/quasi-egalitarian movement that's spread all over the country and still hasnt succumbed to the corrupting influence of electoral politics?

one of the disadvantages of their leaderlessness was their political incoherence (incl. paulites, new deal democrats, anarchists, disgruntled youths, hippie burnouts etc.) but one of its definite advantages was that there was nobody to buy off or poach or intimidate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Economic justice is a silly message...

Who knew? Things one learns on the inter tubes.

[justiceischeap]

38. For those criticizing their tactics... who has been consistently in the news for over a month now?

Why, that would be OWS... their tactics are clearly working. Nuff said.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

40. The TP was in the news for quite some time as well.

Their antics cost them public support.

[Puzzledtraveller]

41. good point

[Harmony Blue]

48. Tea Party had a defined message

which is why they faded away.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

50. There's a second component to having a defined message.

And that is the message must also be palatable. I don't think people were all that jazzed for that the TP wanted. However, I would reiterate my point: just making the news isn't enough.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. You mean their antics once they took power?

Yup, in that we agree.

They were mainstream from word go and a faux grass roots.

Tell me how many raids happened at marches with people trotting AR-15?

The reason why OWS is facing this systematic resistance is because they ARE POSSING A REAL CHALLENGE. They are grassroots, from the somewhat left no less.

I can't connect dots to those that can't see the obvious, but Joe Walsh is the archetype of what people don't like of the party...Eric Cantor openly embraced them. They helped over reach.

No things are not as black-white.

[randome]

43. Right.

I guess you don't need help or input from anyone else, do you?

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Alas this is not the place

The place s at the local ga.

[Azathoth]

42. Their core message is good, but specifics are needed. Tactics are starting to wear thin. n/t

[Harmony Blue]

51. The GA at OWS put out specific already

So, at this point those that do not feel OWS can make a difference view it as a mob mentality with no leader. Most revolutions don't have leaders or solutions at the start. What matters primarily is to fight what you believe in, then you can iron the solutions afterwords. Trying to find solutions without putting up a fight is the definition of futility.

[applegrove]

56. They need to keep the message as it is and keep the peace.

[vcc]

57. right now an ad is hovering over the option I'd click...

...I blocked it and the option I'd pick (and two above it) are un-clickable at this moment. Kinda odd. Well anyway: ill-defined message/poor tactics.