about the term union ''boss''

[yurbud]

I was just reading a post in the ed forum about a hedge fund manager who is taking an entirely altruistic interest in education reform, and he used the term ''union boss'' referring the head of teachers' unions.

Coming from a hedge fund manager that's terribly ironic.

Union leaders are elected by members, one person one vote. How exactly is a CEO chosen? How about the board of directors? At best the board is chosen one dollar one vote.


at least in my teachers union, I don't see the perks adding up to much until maybe the national level, and they sure as hell don't add up to millions and tens of millions a year like corporate CEOs.

Also, since unions are democratic, there is a process to vote for the union to take action that the president disagrees with. I've done it at the state level with my union. Could that happen in a corporation?

Like the political right, the corporate sociopaths they serve project their own moral shortcomings on their enemies.

If someone uses the term ''union boss'' it's pretty safe to assume that every other word coming out of their mouth is a lie too.

[Speck Tater]

1. The unfortunate truth is that unions have a long history of corruption.

That's the kind of taint that sticks for generations. In many people minds "union" and "organized crime" are nearly synonymous terms and in that atmosphere "union boss" seems appropriate.

Unions, like banks, are great, when they are not run by the greedy.

[demosincebirth]

5. You paint with a wide brush. How in the hell can you compare Unions to Corporations and banks? Just

check the benefits you have in all of the workforce. Corporations and Banks just didn't, out of the kindness of the hearts, give them to you or to any of us. Right wingers and republicans are the only ones who use the term "union bosses" in referring to Union Leaders. Which are you?

[Speck Tater]

10. Which are you?

quote: "Right wingers and republicans are the only ones who use the term "union bosses" in referring to Union Leaders. Which are you?"

Let's see how false dichotomy works. Here's a hypothetical example: Forum Nazis and baby eaters are the only ones who refer to fellow DU members as Right wingers or Republicans. Which one are you?

You see what's wrong with FALSE DICHOTOMY? It lets you call anyone by any outrageous name you like without having to justify your venom.

Back in the 1940's my father had just been promoted to management and was subjected to union harassment, including broken windows and damage to his car. My mother, fresh home from the hospital after giving birth to me, was the victim of threatening phone calls and death threats from union thugs. So don't tell me I got my information from Fox News.

If you think unions are lily white and pure, and utter free from any corruption or greed then you are living in la-la land.

And yes, in spite of all that, I am still VERY much in favor of unions. I just think they need to be watched, just like any other institution that is susceptible to corruption needs to be watched.

So don't paint ME with some broad brush anti-union label just because I've seen their occasional seedy side.

[demosincebirth]

13. You asked, which are you? Maybe you should check my avator. And

if you could see behind it you would see 50 years of active union membership and fighting against greedy (Corporate) exploitation of working men and women, and yes, at times we had to use force to combat the scabs and Goon squads that the companies imported from, usually, RTW states. Of course you know that if you ever read anything about the struggles of labor. You either support unions or you don't. In this case, you cannot be in the middle and say you support unions.

[Speck Tater]

15. "You either support unions or yout don't" end quote.

You're either with us or you're against us. George Bush's favorite line as I recall. Another false dichotomy.

I believe in unions. I support unions. I think unions can be dangerous if not carefully watched and regulated. Just like corporations need to be carefully watched and regulated. Just like anything run by fallible human beings needs to be carefully watched and regulated.

I'm awfully sorry that my shade of grey doesn't fit in your black and white world.

[SharonAnn]

14. OK, that was about 70 years ago. A lot has changed since then, including control by corporations.

[CreekDog]

19. If you use the term "Union Boss", I won't stand up for you --not at all

if someone calls you a freeper, good luck with that, because as far as I'm concerned, you're on your own if you utter those words.

a lot of people are harmed by the use of that term, paid for by very, very wealthy people against working people and their candidates.

it's playing with fire. do you use the word "quotas"? same thing. dog whistle, false term. basically.

[readmoreoften]

6. Did you ever stop to think for one second where that "taint" comes from?

It's called propaganda. Either start to think critically about the information you ingest, or openly join the other team for the sake of intellectual honesty.

[Igel]

9. Some, yes; some, no.

I grew up in a union household. My mother got to do the books for her local.

She was resigned at one point. She couldn't make the numbers add up. Any of them. We're not talking small numbers. We're talking a lot. We're also talking about her coming home one day truly pissed off because she was told to shut up and it would be worth her while. Then, a few weeks later, she was just told to shut up.

The local president's wife took over the books. The next day several years' of union records were reconcile, financial statements had been drawn up and were presented to the national union board and certified as valid. How that one woman managed to go through a dozen boxes of records, reconcile several years of banking accounts for a number of different accounts in the course of fewer than 24 hours is nothing short of a miracle. Esp. since my mother still had a couple of boxes of records. Somebody showed up a few weeks later for the boxes. My mother, however, suddenly shut up but never had any good word for the union after that. Not one.

She basically had defended the union for decades. She also hated the men that ran it. The same guy was president for years, then he had a nephew or someboy get elected. He was a sexist pig who hated blacks and "Mexicans." Such was the union.

But my mother, born (D) and still (D) 80+ years later, apparently was a mouthpiece for corporatist propaganda directed entirely at her family. Or, perhaps, I'm allowed to think critically about what unions say about themselves in the furtherance of their own agenda (often the same as their members', but not always).

Then, years later, I watched a union being formed. They kept playing fast and furious with the rules and with their promises and words. No, we can't say what we'd do, that's for the membership to decide; but we promise that everybody will be represented as we fight for X, Y, and Z for all. Well, not for all, but for union members. See, we'll have a meeting--and if we don't get quorum, we won't decide on reps. Well, we didn't get quorum when the meeting was to start, so they decided that people could vote and leave--and others who came in later could vote and leave. Over 4 hours, with no more than 50% of a quorum present at any time, they had enough "aye" votes to constitute 51% of a quorum. Then it turned out that instead of just voting on who would be the representatives, we'd all been voting on the platform. Which was announced in the last 10 minutes of voting with everybody's else's votes appended to it. By the time it came out what had happened and people objected, the vote had been submitted and accepted--and the head of board responsible for recognizing the union and its status simply said he'd not deal with unfounded accusations.

Unions can be good things. But the people running then can be horribly corrupt and lying. But since unions are simply groups of people, it means unions can be horribly corrupt and lying.

[Speck Tater]

12. One important trait of TRUTH is that one's first reaction to it is to get pissed of.

The fact is, if you REALLY want the truth then you MUST stop listening to right-wing propaganda. AND you MUST stop listening to left-wing propaganda as well. See why truth pisses people off? It pisses all over their favorite blind, uncritical biases, no matter which way they lean.

[RufusTFirefly]

7. I'm surprised that all the labor TV news shows haven't set you straight on this misconception by now

Oh. Wait. There are no labor news shows on TV.

Now, think about all the Wall Street and management-focused TV shows and networks.

Is it any wonder that the public's view of unions has little basis in reality?

Almost without exception, we get our news and information from a management perspective.

[Speck Tater]

11. I'm speaking from personal experience in the late 40's and 50's

NOT from what I see on Fox News, since I don't even watch TV.

You need to educate yourself on the long history of union corruption. You might start with some of the references listed in this wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teamsters

--quote--
Infiltration by organized crime dominated the agenda of the Teamsters throughout the 1950s. The Teamsters had suffered from extensive corruption since its formation in 1903.<11><12><13> Although the more extreme, public forms of corruption had been eliminated after General President Cornelius Shea was removed from office, the extent of corruption and control by organized crime increased during General President Tobin's time in office (1907 to 1952).<9><12><22><63> In 1929, the Teamsters and unions in Chicago even approached gangster Roger Touhy and asked for his protection from Al Capone and his Chicago Outfit, which were seeking to control the area's unions.<64> Evidence of widespread corruption within the Teamsters began emerging shortly after Tobin retired.<65> In Kansas City, corrupt Teamsters locals spent years seeking bribes, embezzling money, and engaging in extensive extortion and labor rackets as well as beatings, vandalism and even bombings in an attempt to control the construction and trucking industries.<22><66> The problem was so serious that the U.S. House of Representatives held hearings on the issue.<67>
--//quote--

[yurbud]

17. like any democracy, it takes an informed electorate to make a union run properly

members who don't take the time to be informed or are informed but don't take action (and it doesn't take much) leave the union open to corruption, much like our country until the Bush years (and to a large degree even now).

[maxrandb]

23. Yes, there was and probably is corruption

But...it pales in comparison to the corruption in the private sector, on Wall St, and in the halls of Congress.

I'll say one thing..."at least the Mafia had a code of conduct".

These corporate "bosses" are sociopaths.

[TBMASE]

2. Why would you compare a union to a corporation anyway?

they're entirely different in their purpose for existing and formation as well as ownership

[yurbud]

3. the differences are pretty damning to corporations.

[TBMASE]

4. Only if you misunderstand why each exists

They are entirely different types of entities

[yurbud]

16. a corporation exists to diffuse the risk and responsibility of a business while still allowing...

profits to be shared proportionately among investors. As such, it is an undemocratic institution.

In one sense, a union is like a corporation that provides a service (like Supercuts or something), but unlike

[TBMASE]

20. uhhhhhhhh no

unions do not exist to provide a service, that would be a corporation which exists to provide a service in exchange for payment.

unions exist to provide protection and bargaining power for its members. That is the only reason for its existence.

[yurbud]

21. any kind of business exists to provide a service in exchange for payment from sole proprietor

to a co-op.

Unions have two basic ways doing business: providing that protection and bargain power as a service to members or a service BY members.

One is a little more like a business and the other is more like a democracy (though both have elections and more input from members than any corporation.

[TBMASE]

22. That's not correct

[Dawson Leery]

8. Hedge Fund managers are part of the financial sector which

lobbies the government to change the rules to their favor. Ironic indeed.

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. It is time for labor unions to stop charging their members dues.