We must assume underdog status for 2012, here is why.

[DonCoquixote]

OK: so the GOP clown car has people that most GOP do not want. Their best shot is either a Mormon from Massachusetts, a Black Man that sells Bad Pizza, or another insane former Texas governor that cannot keep his mouth shut. Even the reserve troops, like Bachmann and Christie, are full of holes.

So why should we worry that we are the underdogs?

1) Vote Suppression laws; As Rachel Maddow has talked about, many states have written their laws to reduce turnout among seniors, students and minorities. They do not need to steal the vote as blatantly as 2000, all they need to do is make it feasible; the MSM will do the rest.

2) Money. Frankly, Obama could raise a billion. Sadly, a billion is chump change. The Koches and waltons alone are planning to dump as much money as possible, and sadly, Citizens United means the GOP do not even have to pretend to make an excuse, or even be honest about where the money COMES FROM. Ad of right now, there is nothing stopping China, Israel, Iran, Chavez, The Vatican, or anyone else from pissing billions into a war chest.

3) Churches: All Churches will be in full swing, as they want to crush Abortion and gay Rights, and they will also smell the chances of crushing public education to boot. Again, they have an audience and funding, and are experts and making people swallow BS.

4) The MSM. Let's be honest, even MSNBC appeals to a bottom line. The MSM knows that they get paid by making the left look bad, and they will continue to do everything they can to make anyone left of Nixon look unelectable.

5) US. Look, I do NOT want to the lockstep GOP. I also know that Obama, and the entire Democratic party, need to be slapped out of this false moderate crap that leans rightward. That being said, we are very often, our own worst enemy, because we allow ourselves to be manipulated into either starting civil wars, or simply staying home. Remember how in 2004, we allowed ourselves to get discouraged because Dean and Kerry fought. Because of that, Bush got his second term, something that we should NEVER have allowed to happen. We also need to realize that the Right has paid and manipulated people on the left to be divisive. Sorry Jame Hamsher, but when you take a paycheck from a company to help get GOP elected, you are part of the problem. You may think that when the GOP stinks up the show, them the world will finally submit to the left. Got news for you, that did not work in 2000, nor 2004. The right has been playing the left against itself since the days when Hitler bragged about how ex-communists made the best Nazis. If the right wing wins in 2012, because they manipulated the left, again, that is not going to help the country turn leftward, it will onyl make us easy to manipulate, period.

[Bucky]

1. I couldn't disagree more.

I genuinely liked Godfather's Pizza. They'd put the cheese on top and didn't overdo the tomato sauce. Otherwise, we're in agreement.

[DonCoquixote]

2. LOL

Touche, Mon ami.

[Aerows]

10. I used to eat at their buffet

They did rock out with the cheese, which of course, is the best part of the pizza. They also had the red pepper on the table. As with you, I agree with everything else :D

[Firebrand Gary]

3. Agreed. While the Democratic party has to work to achieve election, The Republicans just buy it.

Citizens United forever changed the rules of our Nation to benefit a political party.

[Kolesar]

4. When the fascists overtook Spain, the leftist/communist groups ended up fighting each other

And then they lost.

[McCamy Taylor]

5. There is no bad pizza.

[michreject]

8. Yeah there is

[Aerows]

11. Red Baron frozen pizza

It's just not possible for pizza to get any worse than that, unless you go to Totino's territory. Both are inedible.

[phiddle]

6. More for your list:

6) In the best case scenario, the economy will be awful, with only 34% approving of Obama's handling of it. A crisis in the Eurozone and/or continuing problems in the US banking sector would increase the economic stress.
7) A totally dysfunctional political system guarantees that nothing substantial will be accomplished, and will only increase the generalized antipathy toward incumbents, including Obama.
8) The worsening, and highly expensive conflict in Afghanistan.

[DonCoquixote]

22. all good points

Thanks for the feedback.

[obxhead]

7. I'm not so sure we should consider Obama left of Nixon.

:evilgrin:

[EstimatedProphet]

12. Who cares? He's far left of everyone else on the repub ticket.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. About #3.

Is your idea that GLBT people should be happy to be slandered by the churches on the 'Democratic side' such as McClurkin's and Caldwell's? Because that shit went on in Obama's last primary, he used 'ministers' infamous for their diatribes against gay people, on TV, in church, at concerts, they spew venom. Those 'ministers' along with the President, his wife, the VP and his wife all oppose equal rights for GLBT people, all of them because of Church. It can not be because of the Bible, because none of them even makes a pass at following the rules laid out in that book for themselves.
So Prop H8 passed with Democratic votes. One of the prime endorsers of H8 was named 'America's Minister' and honored at the Inauguration, just days after he'd equated same sex relationships to incest and pedophilia in the national press.
How does this add up to 'vote for Obama if you support GLBT rights'? No, really. Obama opposes the most important of our objectives, the one without which no others really matter much.
So 'the churches'. They are also in our Party, also spitting at gay people, also defended when doing so by duplicitous leadership.
Once you do the McClurkin/ Warren dance, you have missed the chance to righteously claim to stand for us. Once you say you and your God both oppose our equal rights, you can not point at them and shout that they oppose our rights and be taken seriously. Oh, sure, they are worse. But there is both bad and worse, no good is needed for them to be worse. So shout it out, we are 'slightly less bigoted than them, and fewer of our ministers call for the actual death of gay people. Rejoice!'
Don't expect an easy road to co-opting those issues. Equal is equal. Anything less is bigot sauce.

[EstimatedProphet]

13. This is what the 2012 election may come to for LGBT people

Either a vote to hopefully hold onto what little gains have been made, versus a vote to have all GLBT people shoved into ovens and gas chambers. Half of the candidates for the repubs would love just that.

I fully agree that equal is equal, and nothing less should be the goal. However, if what I put above really is what the issue choice comes down to, how can you not support even a weak or maybe completely neutral side versus a murderous one?

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Since you went for such extreme language let us review...

Obama's 'faith and family rally' Surrogate, Donnie McClurkin, hand chosen and personally defended by Barack and Michele. He is infamous for his calls for war on gay people. He says 'the gloves must come off, this is war, they are trying to kill our children.' So. He says we are guilty of murder, and thus, we must have war waged upon us.
Prop H8 passed with Democratic votes. Rick Warren promoted Prop 8, passed it, was rewarded with honors at the Inauguration days after he had equated GLBT relationships to pedophilia and incest. Obama said he was 'America's Minister' and called him friend, again and again.
So how is this scenario not like a protection racket? Group A brings their own threat makers around, promises to leash them, then points out that Group B will actually kill you if you do not give to Group A some lesser sacrifice. 'If you do not pay homage to us, we will allow them to kill you'. This is not winning argument at all. It shows us that A and B share a disregard for our rights and autonomy and both will demand subservience and while B will murder, A is willing to let them do so if you do not fill the demands they make. 'Say you are not sanctified by God or we'll let them do as they please'.
Just trying to see how a threat of death toward my people is ever, in anyway, an acceptable political modality. I do not think it is.
We already know that Prop H8 Democrats will assist the Republicans against us. We know their leaders will be honored and we will be told to join in on honoring them, or we get called names. Bow to the hater from the GOP, because it is just one short prayer, you pony wanter, and if you do not, we will let the GOP do as they wish with you.
A stronger case is needed than 'they are much worse, and we will let them do as they wish if you do not obey us'.

[EstimatedProphet]

19. No, of course a threat of death is never acceptable

So frankly, if that's the way you see it, I don't have anything to say. I can't argue against what you're saying, and I understand your anger. I however do see it in the way I described, and I have no intention of staying home and letting hillbillies who masturbate to the thought of killing liberals take over just because I think Obama has not fought hard enough. He really hasn't, and he really has disappointed me numerous times, but that's nothing to the disappointment I would feel if some goober like Bachmann got in office and started a nuclear war because she wants to go up in the middle of the air.

[DonCoquixote]

21. Assuming

I guess you assumed I was defending churches, NO. If anything I was trying to point out that all churches, even those ones that claim to be liberal, are not to be trusted. However, that does not change the brutal fact that while Obama had to be dragged to do anything right by the LGBT commmunity,the GOP will make a point of destroying them. Their campaign slogan might as well be "elect us, and we will bring back the closet, we will bring burning gays at the stake!"

[Myrina]

14. "WE" are the underdogs. Always have been.

WE being the average working folk. Both political parties who claim to represent 'us' are bought and paid for, that's obvious moreso now than at any other time in the past 60 years.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

16. I agree with your points

Given the circumstances, we should not take it for granted that we will win because there are a lot of things stacked against us but the weakness (and frankly, insanity) of the current Republican field should make it easier to re-elect President Obama. As it stands now, the only two candidates as far as I can see that present the most danger to President Obama's re-election in the GE are Mitt Romney or Jon Huntsman, mostly because of their "moderate" stances compared to the rest of the field, Huntsman in particular (though it would be hard for him to really gain any significant traction in the GOP primary unless the "moderates" in the GOP take over- something that is likely to be impossible in time for 2012).

[jtown1123]

17. Voter suppression is WAY overblown. GOP wants seniors to vote. They usually vote for GOP. n/t

[Tsiyu]

18. Sure it is

unless you're one of those suppressed.

[EstimatedProphet]

20. Know anyone who was disenfranchised from voting?

I do. worked with her on the 2004 election. It is real and not overblown.