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Mr. Pitt, you better sit down: WH backs away from Hoffa comments

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:57 PM
Original message
Mr. Pitt, you better sit down: WH backs away from Hoffa comments
White House backs away from Hoffa comments, getting Hoffa's affiliation wrong in the process

Perhaps more telling of the distance between this White House and unions, though, was how press secretary Jay Carney characterized Hoffa:


Moving quickly to distance himself and President Obama from Hoffas controversial comments at a Labor Day rally, Carney said that Hoffa speaks for himself, he speaks for the labor movement, the AFL-CIO.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0911/team_playe...

Hoffa is president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, which, you'll notice, Carney did not identify him with. The AFL-CIO, meanwhile, is a federation of dozens of unions, and the Teamsters are not a part of that federation. They split with the AFL-CIO in 2005, along with the SEIU and several other unions, to form Change to Win. Two of those unions have since rejoined the AFL-CIO, but the Teamsters remain part of Change to Win.

Yes, people misspeak. But this is the kind of thing that a White House press secretary ought to know, even when seeking to create distance.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/06/1014032/-White...
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why would this White House know anything about Unions.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
122. Bet they could name the board members of Goldman, JP Morgan, BOA and Citi though...
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #122
154. No doubt about that! / nt
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
138. All Carney did was state a fact. He didn't say yay or nay.
As of now.
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DrunkenBoat Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #138
145. Seems he didn't even state a fact, since Hoffa *doesn't* speak for AFL-CIO.
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Mr Deltoid Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #138
161. He could easily have said, 'The video was doctored by FOX news'
'To appear as if there is an issue', 'There is no issue.'
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. .
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. wish i could buy you a beer today
better yet, hubby made a fine watermelon wheat -
not that it would help

but, peace, to you my friend, sorry to break the news
please take care,
kpete
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. Keep that pic handy.
I'm sure you'll need it again soon.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. That doesn't sound like an apology to me...
They are only saying that Mr Hoffa speaks for himself. He is not part of the White House or the Administration. If they want an apology, ask Mr Hoffa. I think we already know his answer...
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. The (facepalm) is directed at muffing his union affiliation
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 05:30 PM by WilliamPitt
And I never said I'd freak out over an apology. I said "back down." This isn't big, but it's definitely backing off, and blowing Hoffa's union affiliation is just icing on the damned cake.
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Just what 'backing off' is being done here?
WH will not apologize on behlaf of Hoffa....and they just said Hoffa is repsonsible for his own statements. The earlier supposition was the Obama would apologize...he hasn't, he won't.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #54
164. No one expected Obama to be "responsible" for Hoffa's speech. But this was a definite
snub. Maybe Jeff Immelt is advising the President. Why wont you tell us how you feel about Hoffa's speech?
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. Well, the spokesman did muff the union affiliation.
That is a no-no. I hope the White House knows the difference.

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
99. he's dissin' him...
He knows he's a freaking Teamster...
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
81. +1000
Sickening, but not surprising.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Gaffe aside, that's hardly an apology.
We've seen apologies; "he speaks for himself" ain't one.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. VIDEO:
Jake Tapper makes an ass of himself.... http://youtu.be/HqVurbsgwTY
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
89. I'm confused here
yah, since when is saying that an apology?

holy wtf shit.
the things people drag out here to chew on.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
95. Doesn't mesh with the "MUST CRITICIZE ALL THINGS OBAMA" meme
Some of these folks could twist a sneeze into the Lord's prayer.
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Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well, I don't know if the response is all that bad.
They didn't condone and they didn't admonish. Just a bit of separation to stay above the fray. A presidential response in my opinion.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Uhhh---it's bad because he misidentified Hoffa's affiliation
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Which has what to do with Obama"backing down"? nt
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Claudia Jones Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. seriously?
When someone says "he speaks for himself" the unspoken assumption is "and not for me." Of course. It could hardly be more obvious.

Had the administration said the exact same thing about a Republican, I am certain that you would characterize it as disagreeing with what the Republican said.
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theaocp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
87. Just like Republicans "taking Obama at his word."
Read between the fucking lines, people.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
94. If folks on DU can't turn everything on this earth to "Obama Bad Obama BAD"
then what the hell will these people talk about?

Only on DU is the White House saying "Hoffa speaks for himself when he calls people sons of bitches" a negative thing.
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Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Well then there is that.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
49. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. And so sensible.
Heaven forbid a Democratic president support unions and know about unions. Heaven forbid a president with fortitude and the guts to stand up for what he believes. (Whatever that is. Who could know?)
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montanacowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. I have no words for the stupidity of this piss pot Carney
yes this is what we have as the WH Press Sec. A piss pot know nothing jerk.

Yep, run away from Hoffa you goddam cowards - keep it up and the freak show will be in the WH before long.

these people NEVER LEARN
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
41. They certainly follow a strange agenda for ones that are trying to
say they relate to the need for jobs and supposedly support the concept of unions. Someone is going to come along and steal the show out from under them, and then we will, as you say, have the freak show in the WH.

You are so correct, they just never learn.

I think 2012 is going to be a very serious problem for the WH. And that's not an Obama bash, I'm just looking/listening to what's going on. There's a complete aloofness as to where many citizens are on issues. Someones going to talk those on the edge into voting for R's into the WH and then we are going to have one unbelievable F'en mess in this country.
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
155. these people NEVER LEARN
The freaking idiots are inviting Perry/Bachmann/Palin right in aren't they!? :argh:

Is there any democrat anywhere who will stand up and defend labor????
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Holy fucking shit....
Unfucking believable.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
42. It's really not.
:grr:

He is never going to stand up and fight. Not for us. Not for SS and Medicare. Not for Unions. He is who he is....a non-Democrat.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Big deal
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. I apologize for ever having supported Obama.
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Not good enough. You must do penance.
Me too. Oh wait. We already are.
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nineteen50 Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. I flog myself!
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
44. Obama: "Let's take those sons of bitches out!"
Really? You want the President of the United States to cosign on that type of language? Really? Honestly, the spokesman didn't condemn Hoffa. He said that Hoffa speaks for himself, which he does.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #44
100. hell yeah! I heard FDR used strong language on the radio
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #44
157. Quotes from a real Democratic President..
I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign. Harry S. Truman

I never gave anybody hell. I just told the truth and they think it's hell. Harry S. Truman

"Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it."
Harry S. Truman

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Republican. But I repeat myself."
Harry S. Truman

Oh God I wish we had another democrat like Harry Truman in office! He knew how to deal with fascists!
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. That tells us something we all already knew.
Unions don't stand a chance with Obama's branch of the Democratic party.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. I don't really see what's wrong with "he speaks for himself."
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 05:03 PM by The Velveteen Ocelot
In general, though, I think Carney is a pretty sucky press secretary. He should have got the union affiliation right - there's no excuse for that.

I keep hoping Obama will fire his weaselly ass.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
38. What's wrong with that is that our DEMOCRATIC president
should also be speaking out for unions and WE THE PEOPLE.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. That's not "backing away" from the comment at all. nt
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Glimmer of Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I don't read it that way either.
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Claudia Jones Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. ok
"You speak for yourself" on this one.

Are you going to tell us that you think I agree with you when I say that?
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. I heard the Fox-edited tape and the unedited tape on
Stephanie Miller this morning. Fox took out "vote" (or voters, don't recall) to make is sound as though Hoffa was using "take them down" as in eliminate them. He actually said (paraphrasing) we have the votes so let's get out there and take those son of a bitches down -- meaning vote them out of office.

I would have much more respect for the WH if they'd come out and shown this and said Hoffa was only talking about votes, that "some news sources" had edited the tape and given the wrong impression.

But, sigh. :(
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Yep. That would have been a more intelligent way of handling it.
I'll see your sigh and raise you one.
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Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Cnn did the same thing I am told.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
102. Obama's campaign staff WOULD HAVE DONE EXACTLY THAT, which is why
they were fired as soon as he was sworn into office. That's why his campaign was SO GOOD at destroying the Right's endless bullshit
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
142. That sounds very like what's been done to Acorn and attempted against Sherrod
You'd think at this point the White House would expose the machination of that pattern and take them to the cleaners for even attempting it again.
It would be incredibly easy to do so, they have a slew of proven examples to point to as above and the vote quote to back it up.

The vote part even made it into the WSJ, so it's not like it's hard to find:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/09/06/white-house-ha... /

He went on: President Obama, this is your army, and we are ready to march. To workers, he said: Everybody heres got a vote. If we go back, and we keep the eye on the prize, lets take these son-of-a-bitches out and give America back to America where we belong.



This was laid out on a table for him to finally put on those "comfortable shoes," and make a stand .

But, as you say, sigh.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
15.  I thought Hoffa was speaking up for Obama
President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march." Seems a waste to throw away and distance yourself from someone willing to fight for you.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. in other words, "Mr. Obama, we have your back, though you sure as hell have never had ours"
n/t
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. I shudder to think what would happen should Hoffa and
his people decide to distance themselves from Obama.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. To be followed by a side of "The unhelpful rhetoric on both sides." nt
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ChandlerJr Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. "President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march."
But of course I'm just speaking for myself. Pay no attention to me, just babbling on here.

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
76. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!
:banghead:
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
86. Apparently that is the reality. We really need a Left of center Democrat in office.
The REAL Center, not this hangin' on by our finger nails over the abyss most people think of as the center.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
29. White House does not think very much about voting.
Imagine, a sitting administration facing re-election not supporting voting.

Not enough facepalm pictures in the world.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
30. Hoffa apologized himself! Outrage!
:eyes: Are we going to spend the next year being outraged about non-issues while Perry sails into the White House?
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Claudia Jones Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. of course
Of course we should be outraged if Democratic party politicians make stupid mistakes and allow Perry to sail into the White House.

Shouldn't we be?
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
105. link?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
109. yes, actually we should be outraged
surprise!
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
139. Link Please...
:shrug:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
144. Link?
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
33. Shameful.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
35. "Hoffa speaks for himself" is a perfectly reasonable answer
Because it's inherently true. Nobody speaks for the WH except the WH.

If Carney had said "Hoffa speaks for the White House" I'd probably consider that the most stupid thing ever uttered by any press secretary in history.
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. Obama: Spineless to smears.
From signing the defund ACORN bill that was based on James O'Keefe's smear, to tossing Shirley Sherrod under the bus for an out of context Breitbart video, and now this to Jim Hoffa after Fox News. Sigh.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
78. you could
have stopped at Obama: Spineless!
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Mr Deltoid Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
39. Why didn't he just say the truth?
That FOX doctored the video to make it appear threatening?
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #39
106. exactly!!!!!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #39
149. he did speak the truth. hoffa does speak for himself. this is not about what obama has to say
should obama jump into all the childish playground stupid of fox? really?
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Mr Deltoid Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #149
160. Should Obama pretend the faked video was real, and avoid talking about it?
By dodging it, he legitimizes it.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #160
162. should obma have anything to say about it at all? no. it was not his words or his speech
or his manipulation of the speech. fox should not be demanding anything from obama, nor should you. obama will speak for himself adn you can go after that. he didnt diss hoffa. he allowed hoffa's statement to stand.

this is really petty, foolish and childish that we would expect the president to take a stand on this bullshit stuff.
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notGaryOldman Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
43. Many reasons to be critical of Obama Administration.
But this ain't one of 'em.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. He had to "move quickly" on this!!!
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. I remember when our leaders used to "move quickly" against the enemy
Now they move quickly against supporters, and play golf with those who wish to destroy them (and in the process us)
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
73. You said it, doctor
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. .
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 05:31 PM by Bluebear
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
48. Should I even pretend to be surprised?
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MerryBlooms Donating Member (940 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
51. Eesh. Carney really needs to go. n/t
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
52. I took that to mean that Hoffa alone is responsible for his talking points
and the WH doesn't apologize for what other people say.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
53. And the far left wants to be taken seriously?
The statement is a statement of fact.

Hoffa speaks for the Unions, not the Administration.

DUH!

The hate for Obama from parts of the perpetually disgruntled left has jumped about 5 sharks at this point.
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Claudia Jones Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. right
You speak for yourself on this matter.

Get it?
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #53
67. JoePhilly
just to be clear
NO hate here, just constant dissappointment

I WANT OBAMA TO DO WELL
I WANT TO VOTE FOR HIM
I WILL VOTE FOR HIM
I only wish he gave me more reasons than - BECAUSE of the alternative...
DUH! (back at you)

peace, kpete
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #67
114. He's given MANY reasons why other than BECAUSE
of the alternative.

Is the statement you post REALLY an issue worth discussing?

Is THAT a reason to be upset with Obama?

Its a NON-EVENT ... unless the goal is to DISTRACT from what Obama said himself at the SAME event!!

Sad;y Democratic Underground has become, Discouragement Underground ... not a site for supporting Dems, but a site almost totally dedicated to pointing out even the smallest reason to be discouraged.

And this topic is a great example of that.

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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #53
113. Come on.
Surely you are smart enough to see that, in the context, pointing out the obvious truth that Hoffa doesn't speak for the President pretty much dodges the real issue, namely, whether the President endorses Hoffa's remarks. Quite arguably, it even suggests that the president does not approve of the remarks. But at a minimum, it is wimpy and weasely.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #113
118. This is yet another search for meaningless reasons to attack Obama
Neither statement really matters.

The right goes nuts, the administration ignores it, and parts of the left scream bloody murder.

There is ZERO reason for Obama to engage this further.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #118
147. I agree that it doesn't really matter.
It would have been nice had Obama used it to highlight the stupidity of Fox News by pointing out that Fox doctored the quote. But there is no reason for outrage here.
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fredamae Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
55. Does anyone know how to contact Mr Carney's Ofc?
Perhaps if the lines of communication were open a bit more, so We can give Mr Carney Our feedback---they (WH) may be less quick to run from the truth?
Anyway, i'd sure like to know how to contact him/his staff :)
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
57. One more time, with feeling . . .


From Wikipedia (Public Domain)

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
60. I bet he knows who the CEO of Goldman Sachs is.
Wanna bet?


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
62. "The labor movement", wtf?
Where the hell did they dig this clown up?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
63. 
Clearly, the WH should have indicated that Hoffa was speaking for the President!

Outrage just isn't what it used to be anymore!



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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #63
83. Hoffa wasn't speaking for the AFL-CIO..
The Teamsters are not part of that organization so Hoffa could hardly be speaking for them, eh?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. He mispoke
Hoffa's comments were made at an AFL-CIO rally. Carney should know that Hoffa is with the Teamsters.

Still, that has nothing to do with his point, which is that Hoffa speaks for himself.



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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. I wonder if he knows who the CEO of Goldman Sachs is?
And who he speaks for?

Nah, probably not.

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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #90
141. !
:spray:
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #63
96. and neither are you...
What? No Big Bold Blue Links (tm)?

:puke:

RL
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #63
130. Clearly they should have know who he WAS speaking for.
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 09:36 PM by sabrina 1
Where did they find this guy? He's been a terrible Press Sec. But then so was the last one.

And if Hoffa was speaking for the Labor Movement but NOT for the WH, as they said, what does that tell you?

Funny that the WH never distanced itself from Timmy Geithner when it was revealed that he was a tax cheat, and the worst kind also, the kind that did not pay his employee's payroll taxes. Did the WH ever condemn Geithner for that?

That's an actual crime for which most of us would end up in jail, but rather than distance themselves from such a despicable character, they stood by him.

Says a lot about a person, who their friends are.

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w0nderer Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #130
158. who hoffa speaks for?
according to the teamster page...

Fast Facts | International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT)
From: http://www.teamster.org/content/fast-facts

excerpt:
Current membership: 1.4 million
Retirees: Approximately 500,000


potentially 1.9 million voters (remove some percentage of that for non voters and people that vote against their interests or use a union to get benefits but don't agree with the politics(interesting case in itself)

still, given a 50-60% voting participation in general in the US
that's close to 1% of the total voting population, and union people tend towards higher voting participation
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
64. Has Boner distanced himself from the Cock Bros statements yet?
if you read anything about the history of warfare, then you know that those who continually retreat invariably lose to those who attack. Then figure out how next year's elections are going to go.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #64
137. Uh, Joseph Stalin and Marshall Zhukov would beg to differ with
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 11:06 PM by coalition_unwilling
you, as no doubt would German General von Paulus whose German 6th Army was annihilated at Stalingrad. Just saying that sometimes in a real war a retreat is the best strategy to pursue if it means your enemy over-extends his supply lines and exhausts himself in the attack.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
65. the actual carney exchange.....from politico... note the 'violent comments'
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 06:02 PM by spanone
the 'moving quicky' bullshit is politico....also the 'violent comments' is politico

************

Jake Tapper asks about Jimmy Hoffa's violent comments in light of President Obama's comments after the Giffords shooting that violent rhetoric is damaging.

"First of all, those weren't comments by the president," White House press secretary Jay Carney says. "I understand that there is a ritual in Washington that, somebody says something, and you link the association, and everybody who has an association with him or her has to avow or disavow it."

Carney continues: "The president wasn't there. I mean, he wasn't on stage. He didn't speak for another 20 minutes. He didn't hear it."

"Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself. He speaks for the labor movement, the AFL-CIO," Carney says. "The president speaks for himself. I speak for the president."

A reporter asks if Obama thinks the comments were appropriate. "Can we move on?" Carney says. (3:33 p.m.)

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0911/carney_bri...


p.s. there was NO apology
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
66. The gang that couldn't shoot straight flubs another opportunity
to build support for Democrats.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. " if you dont think so, you are a fucking idiot. PERIOD" No
being outraged by Carney's comment is fucking idiotic! Period.

<...>

Jake Tapper asks about Jimmy Hoffa's violent comments in light of President Obama's comments after the Giffords shooting that violent rhetoric is damaging.

"First of all, those weren't comments by the president," White House press secretary Jay Carney says. "I understand that there is a ritual in Washington that, somebody says something, and you link the association, and everybody who has an association with him or her has to avow or disavow it."

Carney continues: "The president wasn't there. I mean, he wasn't on stage. He didn't speak for another 20 minutes. He didn't hear it."

"Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself. He speaks for the labor movement, the AFL-CIO," Carney says. "The president speaks for himself. I speak for the president."

A reporter asks if Obama thinks the comments were appropriate. "Can we move on?" Carney says. (3:33 p.m.)

link


OMG, he lost my vote!!!!


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #69
80. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #66
75. Yup. Here's what I'd have liked to hear
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
68. Oh please. Stop overdramatizing. Other than the misspeak on affiliation, what Carney said was fine.
Thats not an apology. It in no way chastises Mr. Hoffa for anything. Its the kind of friggin response you'd expect from a White House that has nothing to answer for in regard to the comments.

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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
70. That's not an apology and it's not chastisement. It's what I would expect--
and it's what I would say if I were in the WH. Mr. Hoffa can certainly answer for himself.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
71. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
74. getting the organization wrong is completely stupid, but the gist of the response is fine
Of course Hoffa doesn't speak for Obama, and there is simply no reason for the president to register agreement or disagreement with every vaguely controversial thing that anyone on the democratic side of the spectrum says. I know the repubs would love to get him into that habit, but it's stupid. Pointing out that they were Hoffa's comments and leaving it at that is fine.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
77. Did Mr. Will speak out on this already.....
and did I just missed it......

Cause it seems to be an issue he should maybe care about,
or maybe not.... :shrug:


News Corp News Conference on "Why The GOP Must Win White America For Victory in 2012"
MediaMatters reports:

Peter Brimelow, a columnist for News Corp.'s MarketWatch, has been announced as one of three speakers at a press conference discussing "Why the GOP Must Win White America for Victory in 2012."

The press release explains:

On September 9, The National Policy Institute will present a comprehensive, yet simple, strategy for a Republican victory in 2012--Win the White vote. "The Majority Strategy" is based on the GOP expanding its traditional White voting base, as opposed to continuing its failed "outreach" programs to racial minorities.

More.... http://mediamatters.org/blog/201109020021



Of course, its possible that I simply missed it. :eyes:
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These Eyes Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #77
140. Wow. Just wow.
No one has a response to your post. They're not even in least concerned about the Republican racist strategy to win back the White House. They would much rather be outraged over a non-issue. This place is a joke.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
79. So IOW... They Fucked Up In Mid-Weasel... - :facepalm:


:banghead:

:beer:

:smoke:
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Love it!
:rofl: :toast:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #82
91. LOL !!!
:evilgrin:

:hi:
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Marnie Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
84. Now we know where Obama's loyalties are not.
He of the well greased eloquence could have explained that Hoffa was talking about elections, since that was what was talking about,and used that as a teaching moment.

Nope he kissed Republican ass again.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. That's just fucking stupid. Hoffa can explain what Hoffa meant. In fact, that's
how it's SUPPOSED to be fucking handled. Obama and his spokesman cannot speak for Hoffa.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #85
92. They don't need to speak for Hoffa to sound like Democrats. n/t
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. He handled it right, except for getting the union name wrong. You don't
start a discussion about it. You don't give reporters an opening. You don't act like it's a big deal. You don't denounce or explain. You say "Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself", and you move on.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #93
112. That's right, if your goal is avoidance of every opportunity to back up your friends.
That would be exactly the way to go.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. Kills you that they didn't really flub it. I know. It's OK.
:hug:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #93
119. funny how the equivalent of saying "no comment" draws the predictable outrage, isn't it.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #119
120. If anyone here understands ANYTHING about politics, they'd see Carney
mostly handled it right WITHOUT going down the bad road of having to explain or give Obama's thoughts on taking out the sons of bitches. Hoffa's comments STAND. That's what matters.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #93
132. That's what a politician says when he distances himself from another's words
it has ever been thus

I don't know why you think we're stupid, but some of us have heard that exact sort of backpedaling before and know what it is and what it means...
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #132
134. He said the truth--those are Hoffa's words, Hoffa is responsible for them.
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 10:26 PM by TwilightGardener
He wisely did not get into the substance of Hoffa's remarks, pass any sort of judgment on them, put words in Hoffa's mouth and speak for him, and most importantly, did not suggest that the RW framing of violence was true. It's smart NOT to embrace and own the controversial remarks of others when you are President. That is not the same as disavowing them or disagreeing with them. He played it right.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
97. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #97
101. ZOMG TEH MESSIASTS11!1!
:rofl:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #101
108. are people really THAT knee jerk reactionary, or are they so invested in finding fault that THIS is
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 07:26 PM by dionysus
some kind of moral outrage? wow.
", Carney said that Hoffa ...speaks for himself, he speaks for the labor movement..."

wow. holy shit. how outrageous...
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. The disappointment that the WH handled this appropriately, and did not denounce Mr. Hoffa's words,
is PALPABLE. So they're going to gin up outrage that Carney got the union's name wrong.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #111
123. You called it right.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #111
131. Any port in a storm.
:thumbsup:
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #108
115. not outrageous, just wimpy
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 07:41 PM by Vattel
As another poster pointed out, a stronger response would be to have been to attack Fox for doctorind the quote to make it look like Hoffa was calling for violence.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #115
124. bullshit. had carney said "yes, the administration agrees they are sons of bitches", suddenly the
outrage would shift to "how could his team be so undisciplined and angry?"
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #124
148. My suggested response doesn't require calling anyone an SOB.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #97
107. yeah, & why do so many use that rolling in the dirt laughing smiley?
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #107
128. MY smiley never rolls in the dirt, he's on a nice clean rug.
:hi:
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #128
129. no rug there none at all
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
98. weak sauce....the President is weak & far too afraid of conflict with his true masters
he doesn't give a damn about Democratic workers, retired people in general, etc.

this is really pathetic
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #98
104. what bullshit. this is getting hillarious.
:rofl:
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #104
127. another 1 that likes to roll in the dirt
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #127
135. quite clever. a brand new meme.
:rofl: :rofl:
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
103. Did anyone really expect anything else? nt
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
110. This is what you call scrapping the bottom of the barrel for criticisms
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #110
151. I tend to agree, but it would have been nice
to see the Whitehouse attack Fox News for doctoring the quote, and to say something about Hoffa expressing legitimate anger towards Republican obstructionism. And even if the response by itself is no big deal, the pattern of which it is a part is a big deal.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
117. i thought hoffa was quarterback for the NFL-AFC..
these are the smartest people in the room? really?!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
121. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #121
125. and i'm starting to see quite clearly why the white house dosn't listen to DU atleast *eyeroll* n/t
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 09:11 PM by Bodhi BloodWave
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
126. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
133. This thread is a lie... the WH comment is *NOT* an example of backing away

It is, in fact, the opposite.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #133
136. Wrong.
This particular tactic has always been used by politicians who want to distance themselves from what was said.

What, do you think we have the attention span of a two-year-old? We've all seen this before, and it doesn't indicate support!
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
143. USA today NO apology from White House.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
146. he doesn't want to upset his corporate masters
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
150. Shows how close the white house is to unions and the working
class, eh?

Totally fucking PATHETIC!
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
152. Shows how close the white house is to unions and the working
class, eh?

Totally fucking PATHETIC!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
153. the statement worked for me. the "outrage" over the statement? not so much. nt
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
156. The whole "issue" is absurd
and yes, the media is making it into much more than what it should be, but why we are doing the same is beyond my comprehension.

And by the way, saying that Hoffa "speaks for himself, he speaks for the labor movement" is anything BUT backing away, especially only a couple of days after the speech in Detroit where Obama aligned himself with the unions (as did Biden, a coincidence, I am sure). And making a big deal out Carney saying Afl-CIO instead of Teamsters, of course does not mean a damn thing, but why should we not turn it into disdain for the unions and the working class, it's so constructive and so cathartic, isn't it?
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
159. **************BULLSHIT POST********* Obama Aide, No apology from the White House
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/20...

And this is from the same fuckin comments with a different spin on words...

You people are really ...
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #159
163. .
You people are really ...

yup
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
165. Hoffa said to the President that "we are your army". Might expect a thanks for the support. nm
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