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If Obama backs down in the face of this Hoffa thing, I am going to lose my fucking mind.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:06 AM
Original message
If Obama backs down in the face of this Hoffa thing, I am going to lose my fucking mind.
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 09:08 AM by WilliamPitt
In addressing the crowd before Obamas appearance, Hoffa said there has been a war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the tea party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? Theyve got a war, they got a war with us and theres only going to be one winner. Its going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. Were going to win that war.

Hoffa added: President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. Lets take these son of a b----- out and give America back to an America where we belong.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/tea-party-calls-...

The Tea Party, and by that I mean the GOP, is demanding an apology from Obama over these comments.

Hoffa was 100% correct in everything he said, down to the last word.

If an apology is issued, I'm going to be sick. An apology will perfectly encapsulate everything wrong about this administration's approach to the "loyal" opposition.
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
86. I agree. If he does he's beyond the pale. say what you will about
a hoffa, they don't lack balls.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. Holy doctored quote Batman!
Right-wing bloggers misled by dishonest Fox News video editing are attacking Teamsters President James Hoffa for supposedly urging violence against Tea Party activists during a Labor Day speech. Conservatives are also attacking President Obama, who appeared at the event, for "sanctioning violence against fellow Americans" by failing to denounce Hoffa. But fuller context included in other Fox segments makes clear that Hoffa wasn't calling for violence but was actually urging the crowd to vote out Republican members of Congress.

During the segment that the bloggers have latched onto, Fox edited out the bolded portion of Hoffa's comments:

HOFFA: Everybody here's got to vote. If we go back and keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a bitches out and give America back to America where we belong! Thank you very much!


<snip>

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201109050003
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
125. Like they're in any position to complain. nt
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
222. +1 nt
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. He already has released a statement that he has no comment on the matter
I wouldn't be expecting any apology.

Don
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. He who? Hoffa or Obama?
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 09:30 AM by dgibby
I hope they both stand their ground. Tea Party can dish it out, but squeal like stuck pigs when they have to take it, even if they're making it up.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. President Obama had no comment
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Thanks! n/t
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
223. Except that he did
but it was through Carney...Quote:

Carney said, Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself. He speaks for the labor movement, AFL-CIO. The president speaks for himself. I speak for the president.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
161. That's better than an apology, but I would have hoped for a statement of
actual support for Hoffa's comments rather than a terse no comment. But maybe that's too much to expect. As President he can't appear to be divisive I guess.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #161
179. Best that can be expected, IMO
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 08:44 PM by eridani
Very grateful for the absence of an apology.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hunt up the honey bucket
You're gonna need it.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
Prepare to be disappointed. If not, you can be pleasantly surprised.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. Whether he does or not, the fact that people are demanding it and others can imagine him doing it
should be a huge wake-up call for those who are fond of encouraging others to chill the fuck out. The system is broken and none -- NONE -- of the players want to fix it.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
36. In other words, you're going to be outraged no matter what. nt
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #36
74. +1 nt
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. Bullshit. That was a dumb thing to say.
That is a dog whistle just as it would be from Palin's mouth. Whether it was intentional or not, one does not need be a PHD in communication to understand the connotation and context of those words. A hell of a dumb thing to say in our nation-on-the-edge.
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mazzarro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Please explain!
Not using the Faux Noise's "cut-and-paste" tape, the full statement is as follows:

Everybody here has a vote, Hoffa said Monday. If we go back and we keep the eye on the prize. Lets take these sons of bitches out and give America back to America where we belong.

Kindly explain the dumbness in this.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
39. "let's take these son of a bitches out"
That's the dumb part. I'm not wasting time parsing the violent imagery if you don't want to see it. To take someone out is to eliminate them and, while I understand the voting/political context, the dialogue in this nation is too volatile - too close to a hot war - for this bullshit.
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onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #39
59. +1
Yeah...that was a pretty dumb statement. If we want (and hey on DU we may not), but if we want the President to have the high ground and not sound like a hypocrite when Republicans say stupid things like this...we can't pretend it's not stupid when someone like Hoffa does it. There is nothing wrong with consistency. That was a bone headed thing to say. We've almost melted DU down several times over when a Republican makes statements like these. I don't want him to apologize...he didn't make the statement. But, the next time a Republican says something stupid, the President will look like a hypocrite if he opens his mouth to condemn it.

I'm just sorry. It's the truth. And, down deep somewhere, we know it is. That's why I was actually impressed when NOW defended Palin or Bachmann after some inappropriate sexist comment. It's not about being politically correct. Words have consequences. If we care about those consequences, we can't play favorites.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. Tom Coburn just talked about "bringing a gun to congress"..Sharon Angle
threatened "2nd Amendment remedies".

The Republican "opposition" to Gabbie Giffords in Arizona, is auctioning

off a Glock, the gun she was shot with, to fundraise

Spare me the double standard.
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onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Actually, I would be arguing for the removal of double standards
Actually, I would be arguing for a removal of the double standard by all parties involved. So, we should agree.

Gun violence and many other forms of violence are a very real part of reality for many. If the implication of your comment is that others get to do it, so why can't we...I'm simply not impressed. Or, if the implication is...yeah, but Republicans are much worse with their comments. I think that's a given.

I have been guilty of saying many things that I now regret. I simply say no one should indulge in it. I think Republicans are wrong when they do it. I think Democrats are wrong when we do it. I have no desire to set up some false equivalency test to measure whose comments are more dangerous. I feel relatively at peace simply acknowledging that as an adult I recognize that Hoffa's comments were inappropriate in a political culture where we are "supposedly" trying for a higher standard since the horrible attack on Ms. Gifford.

If we're convinced only Republicans such as Tom Coburn make stupid, inciting comments, let's help that become the reality without having You Tube moments of our own.

To my mind, this is a win win. We get to 1) bring attention to the stupid comments made by Republicans; 2) perhaps provide a safer environment for own constituency; and 3) be able to say with a straight face that Democrats do not condone such behavior.

Again...I can't find any problems or reasons to disagree with my comment.
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. Just where do you get off coming here and being reasonable?
;)


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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #67
82. Actually, I don't much care if you are "impressed" or not.
Clearly, Hoffa's comments were taken out of context.

Had they run the full clip, his true meaning would have been understood.

It would have been better, obviously, if Hoffa had said what he

meant, which was "vote them out"
.
but I'm not sweating this one.

You can, if you'd like. :shrug:
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onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. No Sweat...
I'm feeling all...peaceful. I wonder if my husband slipped something in my coffee.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #82
207. I feel the same way....no sweating here...as a matter of fact,
I'm glad Hoffa said it...A lot of us are thinking it, but don't have a pulpit. :evilgrin:
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #207
245. Damn straight!..n/t
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #67
224. Ooooh that's ever so sweet, so very sweet, my my, I just thought I'd die.
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 11:00 PM by ooglymoogly
Dare I say it? yes, yes, I think I will: It's sugary sweet and dripping with honey and topped with honey cherries and rolled in sugar again.

Give yourself a great big slobbery kiss.
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Marnie Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #64
134. Voting is a double standard?
To what?
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #134
246. Um, no..
condemning harsh talk from dems but not from repubs is.
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #59
122. It doesn't matter if he said
it or not. It doesn't matter whether he should have said it or not. What matters, and all that matters, is that no one apologize for it publicly to anyone for any reason.
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reACTIONary Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #59
175. The guy's a teamster...
... he's supposed to talk tough and shit.
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MadLinguist Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #175
230. yeah, god damn it!
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 11:54 PM by MadLinguist
He's not going to stand up and say "Let's show those fellas a thing or two"
He didn't say "men go get your bats" or "kill the fuckers". He alluded to a fight. Mild mannered pundits say things like "so and so is in the political fight of so&so's life". It really seems to me to be the equivalent, given Hoffa's role and audience. my 2 cents
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #59
213. Republicans say things like that all the time
Listen to talk radio for a day and start counting. Nobody in the mainstream media says a word about it either. Here's a snippet from Rush Limbaugh while discussing Hoffa's comments:


"RUSH: These are the people that are authoring all the anti-bully legislation. These are the people that are responsible for all the anti-bullying stuff in school, and who are they? What are they but a bunch of bullies themselves. Proudly so. They applaud themselves for their bullying-like tactics. Excellent point out there."

I think its time we start calling Republicans out for there words and I'd like Obama to join. Obama just let Rick Perry off the hook for some outrageous remarks. That disappointed me.


Nothing is going to change by trying to be consistent. The right and the far left are obsessed with finding statements from anybody they can connect to Obama that they can twist into examples for their persecution fantasies. The best that can be done is to fight back against the GOP, starting with the statements they make daily on talk radio.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #39
78. OFFS
Way to pump up the RW talking points... Jesus... where the fuck did I wake up today?
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
80. Just imagine how DU would
react if a Republican had said it.
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Amimnoch Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #39
81. I'm so glad you said this! I was feeling alone in having this position.
I very much dislike the way pubs/teabaggers handle themselves.

I totally support organized labor.

I agree 100% with the Sentiment of Mr. Hoffa.

BUT, this is the same kind of hot rhetoric that got Mrs. Giffords shot, and has the potential to kill other people.

I agree that most people will understand these statements in the correct context in which they were presented, but all it takes is one person to read into it the wrong way, and go on a killing rampage. It would NOT be beneficial to us (liberals, progressives, or supporters of organized labor) if someone who is already on the brink of going on a spree actually does now, and his activities can be traced back to listening to this speech. We all KNOW that the pukes wouldn't hesitate to throw it in our faces.

Anger doesn't garner support, and often reduces it.

Hot-headed rhetoric shouldn't be tolerated from the pubs, and it shouldn't be tolerated from us.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #81
140. ok, please point out to me those on the Left who will become violent because of his words
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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
85. Didn't you see the un-edited quote?
He clearly said "take them out" as in VOTE them out. He prefaced it with "we've got to vote."

Don't fall for this RW smokescreen.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #85
242. Well, then he should have said "vote them out"
He couldn't possibly have been unaware that his words could be misconstrued, surely.
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Marnie Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #39
132. But you have done exactly what Fox did.
HOffa is talking about voting.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #132
133. And who could have EVER predicted he'd get soundbitten?!
Hyukhyukhyuk! How's it all work!??
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #133
211. Awesome
We should sanitize and milquetoasterate every word that comes out of any person that even has an attachment to the democratic party to assure that they can never be contorted or twisted or creatively edited by fux friggin news! Yeah. Brilliant.

Say only positive pithy vauge things that cannot offend or attack anyone in any way. Sounds like a wonderful recipe for getting people fired up...
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #211
214. That's ridiculous. Violence implies what about a person?
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 10:36 PM by RadiationTherapy
We can win without "takin out" our "enemies".
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #214
234. yup...
Good that you use the fox news edits so effectively. I'm sorry but there is far too much 'concern' in your post.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
164. Also not a good thing to say after the Giffords shooting
When we were calling for and end to violent rhetoric, to more "civil discourse."

Looks hypocritical.

Watch some idiot take a pot shot at the next Tea Party rally because he's simply batshit insane.

But the Repubs will have this to hold over us.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
54. So long as we can get all of Fox's viewership to read DU or MM we'll be OK
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
169. "Take them out" is common mafia terminology for killing someone, isn't it? I think...
that's the connotation here by the rightwingnuts, since Hoffa is a name associated with the mafia in years past.

Just guessing that's where that came from.

But for you and me, it's just normal terminology. Take 'em out! Vote 'em out! Rip 'em up! Kick 'em out! All of that just means get rid of 'em and replace 'em with Democrats.
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reACTIONary Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #169
177. It's Mafia and it's military...
... but it's very common to use martial illusions in electioneering. Elections are sublimated warfare. The martial terminology actually helps to diffuse and redirect the emotions into a positive process.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #177
188. I think you mean 'allusion', but I am not responding for that.
I am very interested in your last sentence. Is this supported somewhere? I am very interested in the interaction between words and actions. Thanks.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. What specifically do you see wrong with this:
"Everybody here's got to vote. If we go back and keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a bitches out and give America back to America where we belong! Thank you very much!"

A vote can take those bastards out of office. That's called democracy. How is that a problem? Focus on an electoral victory is 'dumb' in what way? Be specific. If it does not take a PHD to understand it, you should be able to clearly express your view on the statement in exacting language. Can't wait.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #22
40. "let's take these son of a bitches out"
That is a phrase with violent undertones. You can read more above if you are interested.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
98. He's Jimmy. Fucking. Hoffa.
Obama should just tsk tsk him and then
GET BEHIND LABOR.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #98
103. Exactly!
But Obama, you know the President that will submit to an interview with Bill O'Rilly, but not Rachel Maddow, will not get behind labor. George H. W. Bush wouldn't see it as prudent.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
153. Grow Up! They've Been Talking About Taking People Out For Quite Some
time! Shall we now call YOU Obama? Turn the other cheek, kiss some ASS? THEY have been at it for far too long and I myself am soooooooooooooo glad to hear someone FIGHT BACK!

They'll get over it... OR NOT! I don't really care. They've been so evil for so long, it serves them right. And generally I'm very careful to try and "kill 'em with kindness" but now my cynicism has grown by leaps and bounds! Time for a Green Light and LET'S GO!

I want to SHOW THEM, we have a SPINE!
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #153
156. Right, because violent equals tough!
BZZZZZZZT.
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former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
62. That is not the quote in the OP. Who is correct?
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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #62
87. Link
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201109050003

One of the videos shows the full quote, which Fox aired later.

Hoffa said: "Everybody here's got to vote. If we go back and keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a bitches out and give America back to America where we belong! Thank you very much!"
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former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. On a radio news report I heard him say the one in the OP
Which is completely different than the one you are giving.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. Dog whistle -
coded language understood by only select listeners who know the true intent of a message is different from that heard by the general public.

Where's the 'dog whistle' there? What is the select group being addressed, other than the general audience?

Do you understand the words you use?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. obviously RT has confused full-throated liberal advocacy with dog-whistle politics -- so seldom
do we see said "full-throated liberal advocacy" that it's understandable how one might become confused. it's disorienting...i'm feeling a bit of vertigo myself.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. When asked for specifics, the talking point people melt away
like a banana split on a summer's day.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
44. Or maybe they are getting their kid off to school.
One or the other.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
43. There is nothing "liberal" about "let's take these son of a bitches out"
Any idiot can stitch those angry, violent words together. If you want violence, then you got some words that resonate with you.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
142. then you know NOTHING of Labor Rights & the history of practically EVERY
PROGRESSIVE GAIN MADE IN THIS NATION
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #142
149. Riiiiiiight.
Jeepers! Tell me more, Wally!

Violence grafted on to election politics - that has what to do with labor violence from the beginning of last century?
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #149
194. read this-GO AHEAD TRY TO REBUT IT
13 January 1874 (United States)
The original Tompkins Square Riot. As unemployed workers demonstrated in New York City's Tompkins Square Park, a detachment of mounted police charged into the crowd, beating men, women and children indiscriminately with billy clubs and leaving hundreds of casualties in their wake.

Commented Abram Duryee, the Commissioner of Police: "It was the most glorious sight I ever saw..."

1 May 1886 (United States)
Bay View Tragedy -- About 2,000 Polish workers walked off their jobs and gathered at St. Stanislaus Church in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, angrily denouncing the ten hour workday. The protesters marched through the city, calling on other workers to join them. All but one factory was closed down as sixteen thousand protesters gathered at Rolling Mills. Wisconsin Governor Jeremiah Rusk called the state militia. The militia camped out at the mill while workers slept in nearby fields. On the morning of May 5th, as protesters chanted for the eight-hour workday, General Treaumer ordered his men to shoot into the crowd, some of whom were carrying sticks, bricks, and scythes, leaving seven dead at the scene, including a child.<2><3>

6 July 1892 (United States)
Homestead Strike -- Pinkerton Guards, trying to pave the way for the introduction of scabs, opened fire on striking Carnegie mill steel-workers in Homestead, Pennsylvania. In the ensuing battle, three Pinkertons surrendered; then, unarmed, they were set upon and beaten by a mob of townspeople, most of them women. Seven guards and eleven strikers and spectators were shot to death.<4[br />
JanuaryMarch 1912 (United States)
Lawrence textile strike in Lawrence, Massachusetts, often known as the "Bread and Roses" strike. Dozens of different immigrant communities united under the leadership of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) in a largely successful strike led to a large extent by women. The strike is credited with inventing the moving picket line, a tactic devised to keep strikers from being arrested for loitering.

It also adopted a tactic used before in Europe, but never in the United States, of sending children to sympathizers in other cities when they could not be cared for by strike funds. On 24 February, women attempting to put their children on a train out of town were beaten by police, shocking the nation.<4><6[br />
20 April 1914 (United States)
The "Ludlow Massacre." In an attempt to persuade strikers at Colorado's Ludlow Mine Field to return to work, company "guards," engaged by John D. Rockefeller, Jr. and other mine operators and sworn into the State Militia just for the occasion, attacked a union tent camp with machine guns, then set it afire. Five men, two women and 12 children died as a result.<4><5[br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_labor_issues_a...
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #194
218. Rebut what? Are you ready to take it to that level?
What is your point? I am well aware of labor history. I did not say violence hasn't happened in labor history; I am denouncing violent imagery that I am more worried about resembling 1864 - citizen vs. citizen. There is not near enough unity among workers right now for our present to resemble your examples. Conservative workers hate liberal workers. That common ground is not there. I assert that Hoffa's comments bring us closer to civil war and not a labor uprising. Jeez.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #24
42. "let's take these son of a bitches out"
Unfortunately it will end up in the wrong audience. Hoffa meant voters, conservatives will hear a threat against them and the nation teeters further on the verge of violence. I reject violent imagery.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. Conservatives only hear what they want to hear anyway -
what WE need to hear is somebody standing up for US.

Just because YOU have some violence issues, that doesn't mean that what Hoffa said has anything to do with 'violent imagery'. Perhaps you need to look at your own reaction, rather than castigate your allies.

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SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #55
141. + a trillion. nt
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #55
154. But THEY Also Know If THEY Make Enough Of A Stink "Our Man" Just Might
BACK DOWN! This is the reason they are calling him out and if he keeps giving them what THEY want, IMO he loses and WE lose!
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
95. The mendacious dipshits that run 24 hour news networks will turn "I want oatmeal for breakfast"
into a menacing declaration of evil intent if they feel like it.

I too reject violent imagery, but Hoffa's remarks can only be construed as such by conservatives with a victim complex and their enablers. The demands for an apology, especially a Presidential apology, are petty, childish, and stupid. They demonstrate the right-wing's obsession with turning every minor little item into some stupid political game.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
99. Conservatives know exactly whart he meant but are pretending
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 03:43 PM by sabrina 1
like spoiled children, that he did not say what he said. And giving in to their temper tantrums is not an option. If they can't take tough talk from Unions, then they should not have started a war with them.

They should be ignored. I can't believe anyone is even giving their nonsense any attention. It must be a slow news day, no-one dying in any of our wars, no one losing their homes, their jobs or anything of importance going on.

No, we must cater to the traitors who are being paid by Global and National Multi Corps to 'take out' America's middle class who are pretending to be offended because NOW they are finally realizing that when you start a war with workers, it isn't all going to go your way. :eyes:
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
137. so throw the bums out is violent rhetoric? are you also complaining about Palin's
rhetoric, & other GOP/TP rhetoric?
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #137
143. Yes, I am. I am very concerned about the potential for civil war in theis country
and the rhetoric is shrill all round.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #143
170. I hear ya. But what the media ISN'T saying is...it's usually rightwingers who go around shooting ..
people. It's not usually liberals.

It's not like an NRA member who puts names of congress people on his/her website, and then on top of the names puts shotgun crosshairs, while knowing that followers of the NRA member are gun advocates, and some are nuts who shoot people.

Joe Scarborough was trying to compare the two things as the same. They're not the same.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #170
172. I am not saying the two are the same.
As a matter of fact, I am more concerned about Hoffa's remarks' effect on conservatives than on liberals as far as violent acting-out.
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w0nderer Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #172
247. so
in effect their violent acting out has already managed to intimidate some people to the point where they recommend giving up freedom of speech using 'verbal violent imagery' to protect against more violence against themselves or their group?

is that a relatively fair summation?

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
58. Yeah... Maybe A Sternly Worded Letter In Their Personnel Files Would Do The Trick
BTW - It is customary for the President's allies to say things that the President would like to say, but cannot.

I doubt this President would have chosen those words, but I'm glad Hoffa did... I'm waiting for the fight to begin in earnest.

And see that word "fight"... violent there too...

Bring it on!!!

:evilfrown:


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w0nderer Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #58
190. speech
on labor day, a labor leader, to workers

making a speech....(the politically correct civilized non offensive milquetoast version)

really, we should you know perhaps, considering the circumstances without being unnecessarily partisan or offensive, possibly, as an idea we could you know, kinda i guess vote, or something, to possibly, if it wouldn't hurt their feelings, i mean we could potentially actually vote or express our concern, not against them as such, more of expressing concern or vote a little less for them so that they would not be in office as much as previously unless that would be too harsh.

unless it offends someone or disturbs someone or in any other way is not acceptable i'd like, well actually not like but partially like, more, feel neutral towards, yes neutral towards presenting the president, well possibly the president, of the united states, well not that united, since many people don't like us, but we love them in a fuzzy group hug kind of way anyway, on this day, so give him a big, but not too big, because that would hurt the other speakers' feelings, welcome.

:sarcasm:

as for me, i almost fell asleep writing it
i can't imagine the poor worker listening to it
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
60. Aw, come on
You know it's "different" when the side you support does it.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
136. you're WAY OFF-that was an FDR thing, a Truman way of putting it
FINALLY!
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
162. Yeah, democrats/progressives have such a strong record
of violence against those we disagree with. :eyes: FAIL. I love it when OUR guys say what needs to be said.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
174. Bullshit
Let me spell that out for you B-0-0-0-L C-H-E-E-T. Not to be too parcy but only a phony baloney idiot would make of that perfectly appropriate comment, a dog whistle. But then clearly you have been wounded to the quick by that comment. His meaning is clear, we need to take these loons out of the government. So carry on with the phony outrage.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #174
187. I am not outraged, nor do I feel the need to take a phony position of authority
by "giving permission" to someone to "carry on." I simply pointed out that what he says has violent imagery, it provides counterproductive fodder for the media, and there are a million other inspirational ways to say it. I do not relate to the "violence = toughness" paradigm and I call bullshit that it was a "normal" thing to say. It is abnormal, as is obvious by this thread.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #187
197. There are fighters on this board who are fed up with capitulation at
every affront. They (and I) are tired of a president who talks the FDR talk but walks a crooked walk. There are Pollyannas and goody two shoes on this board who wear rose colored glasses, who constantly make excuses and shy away from anything remotely resembling a confrontation.

It is time to uphold the principals of the Democratic party that many died for.

They want a fight so lets give it to them...Trumka threw out the first punch and we owe him for that and let the outraged thugs do what they will with it. My crawling apologies for the violent imagery, to the delicate, pearl clutching minds of some, on this board.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #197
220. You can't conceive of confrontational language that is absent of violence?
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 10:44 PM by RadiationTherapy
That is surprising to me. You seem to be well spoken.

And "pearl-clutching?" Really? My words haven't been rather even and carefully chosen? I am in such a state of pollyanna shock that I have lost my ability to distinguish confrontation from violence?
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #220
228. There is violence and there are metaphors that speak of things where no violence
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 11:21 PM by ooglymoogly
is even suggested....words like fight as at a highschool football match wherein the cheerleaders shout the violent language of fight, fight, fight for example. ...Whereupon the spectators all pull out guns and shoot each other....for cripes sake get real.
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Ineeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. Why would anyone expect an apology
for anything said by someone who is not a part of the administration? I can't imagine an apology would be forthcoming.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
33. Because
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 10:25 AM by polmaven
the statement was made when Hoffa was introducing the president on stage. So, you see, it was obviously officially endorsed by the president...

Of course, I do think the president should fully endorse the statement that was actually made... the voters should take the tea party out of office with our votes!
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
144. Exactly. Seems like something else to be outraged over
Nobody's even seriously talking about an apology. Except on DU. :eyes:
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
9. The RepubliCONS asks for an apology every time Obama sneezes.
I think the GOP believes they can get Obama to criticize his base so that his base will abandon him.

The next thing you know they will ask Obama to apologize for being born.

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potone Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. They already have.
He wasn't born in the right country, don't you know? :crazy:
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. Obama didn't say it so it's not for him to apologize
and I'm with you, he'd better not.
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Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. REAL QUOTE
Everybody here has a vote, Hoffa said Monday. If we go back and we keep the eye on the prize. Lets take these sons of bitches out and give America back to America where we belong.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
nevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
14. When pressed he will probably say
something to the effect that he wouldn't have used those words. One way or the other it won't be a big deal except on the blogs.
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
37. With that, I would have to agree. I wouldn't have called them "sons of bitches."
I would have called them something MUCH more insulting.
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catbyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
15. Me too.
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Proud Public Servant Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
16. Negotiations have already begun
Obama has pre-emptively opened with an offer of an apology and, though no one asked for it, a unilateral Democratic Party ban on union campaign contributions. Tea Partiers have refused, and are said to be holding out for Congressional appointments for life and a re-introduction of serfdom in the trucking industry. "We're not actually that far apart," said Jay Carney in a hastily-called press conference, "and we believe there's middle ground on which we can meet."
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. Obama woke up this morning and pe-emptively reversed everything he signed to date. *sarcasm*
you statement is inane
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
159. Though I think this speculation is pure neurotic hand wringing....
That's pretty god damn funny.
I laughed aloud as I read it. thanx.
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
163. that isnt funny at all.
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Altoid_Cyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
237. Welcome to DU!
While others might not have seen the humor in your statement, it gave me a chuckle to start the day.

The worst part is that based on past performance, your tongue-in-cheek hypothesis stands a good chance of being the actual response.

So many freaking weak attempts to show a real unity with organized labor don't really instill a lot of confidence in how our President will handle this. Huge sigh..........

What happened to those comfortable shoes and picket signs that CANDIDATE Obama mentioned?
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
240. Thanks for the laugh. I am glad
and surprised that President Obama gave a simple "no comment." But your scenario is a spot on satire. You got to my deepest fears and I found myself laughing my ass off.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
17. Really?
Why worry about this when the left gave Trumka thumbs up for his assy statement in August.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. Funny how the ardents wailed and weeped over Labor comments
and even after that rally yesterday they still keep up the whining and crying. Where was the rally organized by the ardents? Is it not pleasing to hear someone stand up to the Republicans with strong language, or do you miss the bipartisan lexicon of coddling and compromise with them? I'd say those so upset by Trumka's comments are free to make their own rallies, open up their own forceful renunciations of the Republicans, but that's going to be hard to do for the 'moderate centrists' who are at least as close to Republicans as they are to labor people like me.
Is the internet ardent group DOING anything? Labor is. The whole conversation has changed. And that was a nice rally yesterday, the President looked better than he has in many weeks. On a stage given to him by labor. I notice that he is not weeping and wailing but instead he is showing up and speaking out. He seemed pleased with the crowd yesterday. Say what you will about Obama, he recognizes politics when he sees it, something his most ardent supporters fail to see every time.
Who would you prefer? Critical people who give you tons of support and huge crowds or people who always praise, constantly to the point of doing nothing else, presenting no podium, no crowds, no context, no chorus, no nothing but praise? I say look at the 2010 elections, and see how all the ardent supporters did not bother to support when it counted. Where were they? Posting praise and shouting at those who are actually doing something. And of course, claiming it is all 'for Obama'.
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disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #27
47. Well said..
:applause:
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
71. Well you missed the boat all the way around.
Funny that the very same Trumka couldn't say enough when the President was in the house, isn't it? Funnier yet is that you are telling the supporters of the President to go make their own rallies.....bub, you saw one yesterday. Who do you think you are anyway? Don't you dare try to put out there that the supporters are nothing.
I have to laugh when the angst gets caught in the pissing contest. You can take your 'ardent supporters' whine and figure out we are the ones who showed up to vote in 2010, not the disenchanteds. We're not the ones who stayed home or had lost their love of the Democratic Party and started tossing around third parties and primaries. You are not going to get by with crap like that. Your post was the proverbial epic fail.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #71
123. Your ardent vote didn't count any more than my disenchanted one.
Many of us also gave time an money.

What you need to do is to stop pretending the Turd Way is a stand up crowd and actually look at who didn't show up to the polls because you will find it was the Obama wave voters that didn't make it or even switched sides and that capitulation to the Reich wing not only failed to attract independent voters but apparently ran them off in droves.

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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #123
139. Hey I just go by what was said here in the Democratic capitol of the country.
If people didn't stay home they shouldn't be acting like they did. If they didn't sit on their time and their money they should say so. That isn't how it was and we all know it. It has been one long 'I'm gonna do nothing' And now we get it again for 2012. I doubt many indies hang out here.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #139
160. Indies don't hang out here. I talked to an Indie today.
What I heard from the person's mouth really, really encouraged me. Looks like democrats have that Indie in our column. I have given up wasting time convincing the Obama and democrat haters that gather in DU at certain levels. There is no reason for me to waste time on DU frothers, democratic leaning Indies and even the few moderate republicans that are shitting their undies at their choices are more promising and will show up at polls to vote.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #160
166. Indies would be scared away here, the anti-Obama is
not conductive to bringing in voters. Glad to hear they are paying attention to the truth that is out there because we really need to win in 2012.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #123
157. Yes, you're right. But the Ardents, as you insultingly call us.
Did not sit naked on our thumbs while teabagger bastards were ushered into office, we were out fighting our ass off. I personally would rather see people of your ilk leave the democratic party, the party can then get democratic leaning independents back, a group that is saner and more proactive.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #157
248. Proactive, my ass. I haven't seen a "pragmatic progressive" or a "centrist" working a campaign ever
Not even for like minded candidates. Who was fighting their asses off are the same folks who have been in the trenches for decades that you spit on and blame for the failures of the halfassed Republicans you think the moon is hung on.

Who sat home are the same folks that always sit home during mid-terms aka young people, the politically disengaged, and a fair chunk of the minority vote. Add in your "centrists" that flipped back (for no sane reason seeing that what passed was more conservative than what they voted for and you have a pretty complete picture.

Did some disenchanted liberals say fuck it? I'm sure some did but most found a clothespin for their chapped noses and stuck with it, just like I did. Our turn out was good and we elected Democrats in my district and did all we could for Conway (who fucked himself with silly aquabuddah commercials and dumber drug warrior nonsense), so go puff up at someone else.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #71
176. Well I went out and voted as I am guessing everyone on this board did
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 08:47 PM by ooglymoogly
You and your tag team are off base.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #176
181. Then they should admit it.
I have no tag team, but thanks for giving me that power.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #181
186. Is this a papers please!, moment?
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 09:03 PM by ooglymoogly
Well at least you are consistent and explains why you are so gung ho on the democratic principals sellout.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #186
202. I don't want your papers, why would you offer them?
The sell out is a myth.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
72. Amen bnw
a major reason we continue to be kicked around by the Repukes is the knee-jerk hand-wringing by the PC crowd who try to make sure no one is offended by any remarks. The president got his ass kicked in November because of HIS straddling and appeasing. If everyone who voted for the president in 2008 talked like Trumka, the enemies of America like the teabaggers would start to fear us a little, which would be a very good thing.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
107. Goddamn good post!
Fuck the Teahaddists!
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
126. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!
:bounce:

:hi:

:kick:
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
209. +1 nt
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
18. I agree. It isn't up to Obama to apologize for his remark.
and it's just another manufactured media controversy.
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. I just wish Hoffa had said "kick" or even "get" instead of "take."
"Kick" would have sounded plenty angry and forceful but to "take" someone out connotes more violence, even killing. The mob "takes out a squealer." The military "takes out a sniper's nest" or "takes out an insurgent headquarters."

I also wish Hoffa had said "scum-sucking, thieving, son of a bitches" as it would be more accurate. }(
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. He used 'vote' in the same place.
Not buying it.
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. True, but that's not helping much with the soundbites.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
84. Then try scolding the right people
instead of the ones they're misquoting.
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. I'm not scolding. I just don't see why we should hand them these soundbites on a silver platter.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #89
135. There you go again. n/t
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #89
146. the right will ALWAYS twist EVERYTHING said by anyone even remotely Left
so let them foam at the mouth, don't appease them-they trumpet that as their victory over the Left.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #84
111. PLUS ONE!.......nt
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Claudia Jones Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
128. nothing ever will
Nothing will ever "help much with the soundbites."

Much of the strength of the right wing propaganda comes from the inordinate fear and cowardice that so many Democrats display in response to it.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #128
173. That is SO true!!!
Re "Much of the strength of the right wing propaganda comes from the inordinate fear and cowardice that so many Democrats display in response to it."
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #26
57. He also used 'army' in the same speech.
Which adds to the violent inference.

President Obama, this is your army, Hoffa concluded to applause, his voice raising to a shout. We are ready to march. Lets take these sons of bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong, he said, stepping back from the lectern where President Obama would speak less than an hour later.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/hoffa-they...
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durablend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. Sorry, they'd throw a fit over 'kick' too
Since that's meant to be a violent act (when one kicks another person).

I really think we should stop clutching our pearls every time FauxNoise makes something up out of nothing. Because that's what they do!
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #30
49. Sure they might also throw a fit over "kick" but they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
...So to speak.

It's OK to be both tough and smart and the tough-smart thing would be to stop just short of using an expression that connotes killing.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
45. It was chosen for its violent imagery.
In America, that's how you let people know you are SUPERSERIOUS about something. Violent imagery.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
110. I agree. But anything and I mean 'anything' said
in criticism of the Teabaggers is better than no criticism at all.
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stuckinarut Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
32. Yah, you are pushing the Fox-doctored version. n/t
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
34. You're setting yourself up for disappointment and a nervous breakdown.
Never make your mental health contingent on Barack Obama acting like a Democrat.
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KarenS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
121. HA!!!
too late for me

:rofl:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
38. Why the fuck should Obama be called on to apologize?
He's not the one who told them the truth. Hoffa is.

Good for Hoffa.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
41. Pre-emptive gassiness over something that won't happen.
But, you got the outrage out there.

Good for you.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
46. Seems like you are trolling for "outrage recs" to reach greatest page, Will
I am disappointed in you.

Usually your posts are much more substantive than this.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #46
52. I'll try to do better
Cuz you're right, Obama has never folded like a wet napkin in the face of right-wing pressure before.

Shame on me.

Or something.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #46
147. It's the new DU and all
Where would this place be without "outrage recs?"
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disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
48. Fuck the tea party...
and it's mindless followers.. it's about freaking time "our side" start pushing.. no scratch the - shoving back!!

And if people that are supposedly on our side complain and align themselves with the right - well fuck them too!!
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
50. Will, we hardly knew ye..
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
51. Hoffa- the union guy who endorses drilling in the Arctic?
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
113. This is apropos of . . . . ? Oh. I see. Obfuscation. Not very good, but you tried.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
53. I agree. Fuck the tea party and double fuck the gop....
...It was exactly what needed to be said and therefore I expect the apology by 5.00pm this afternoon...

:puke:
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bengalherder Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
56. The phrase "Sons of Bitches"
Is unlikely to ruffle the feathers of people actually employed in labor industries.

Believe me we know far worse and will share at a drop of a hat.

Pearl-clutching is an elitist exercise.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #56
63. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!
:bounce:

Well said...

:kick:

:hi:
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Loki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Ah, excuse me but Dickhead Cheney
told Senator Patrick Leahy to "go fuck himself" if my memory serves me. I think we need to tell the republicans to just "shut the fuck up" just like their former VP.
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Gemini Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #56
68. "Pearl-clutching is an elitist exercise."
You nailed it perfectly.
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #56
79. + a million
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w0nderer Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #56
195. +1 n/t

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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
61. I see the AP is as guilty of quote doctoring as FOX
Why are you falling for it, Will?
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
66. It's time for Hoffa and Obama to "welcome their hatred" (as FDR said)
and attack the RW's deliberate lying about this instead of retracting one inch.

"Take them out of office" is obviously what was meant. It's time to shut down the RW's deliberate blatant lying to the public. And if the media gives this any credibility at all, they are just as guilty.

The liars about this are the ones who need to apologize. It's about time we stopped giving them a free pass on pumping out lies without any consequences to them.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
69. 
these son of a b----- out and give America back to an America where we belong.
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lillypaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
73. You realize, don't you
had Hoffa posted this comment on DU, it would have been deleted for being SEXIST. :rofl:
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mfcorey1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
75. Hoffa will simply need to say, "No one can apologize for me. My statement stands as I said it and I
do not apologize." That will take care of it.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
76. i remember the teabaggers showing up at rallies brazenly carrying weapons.....
this is bullshit
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
77. Jesus, Will...
When did you go all tabloidy on our asses?

The quote is wrong and out of context... and you've joined the "he's going to, he plans on, he wants to, he intends on..." crowd.

Wow... very disheartening.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #77
109. What?
I don't follow your logic at all.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
88. I absolutely agree with this sentiment. n/t

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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
91. I am weary of the language police,
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 03:31 PM by woo me with science
but I must say I find an apology over rhetoric to be a very odd last straw when this administration has been brazenly endorsing supply side economic policies in this shithole of an economy, trying to cut the social safety nets of the poor and elderly, and defending corrupt banks.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #91
105. .
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
92. What would constitute "backing down"?
I'm not sure how O is even involved here.
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toddwv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
93. Please remove that redacted right-wing swill and replace it with the FULL excerpt!!!!!!!
We all fell for the right-wing propaganda machine. Let's fix that and remember to always be wary of a right-winger bearing "facts"! Question everything you see and hear from the media regardless of the source!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f65xilSDyso

We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face: The war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? Theyve got a war, they got a war with us and theres only going to be one winner. Its going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. Were going to win that war.

President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. AndPresident Obama, we want one thing: jobs, jobs, jobs Thats what were going to tell him. Hes gonna be and when he sees what were doing here, he will be inspired. But he needs help. And you know what? Everybody heres got to vote. If we go back, and we keep the eye on the prize, lets take these son of a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)es out and give America back to an America where we belong.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. Thank you!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
94. So this is to be all about Obama, once again, hey?
Perhaps some smart person will make a T-shirt that reads...

Keep your eye on the Prize, make sure to vote,
and let's get rid of those GOP SOB!

Now, that would get the Hoffa message out far and wide,
instead of focusing on "what will Obama do?" once again.

It's like the distraction our enemies pray for is created by those who would claim
to be such great political analysts....but instead of making the GOP the focus offensively,
some would rather shift the focus and anticipate how to kick the hell out of Obama.
The GOP appreciate this redirected singleness of purpose from some of our own, tell you that!

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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
97. Alas, it's too late for me...hey, maybe they'll give you the room next to mine!
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 03:40 PM by Zorra
It's the Chief's old room, got the window that looks over the staff entrance, it's a good one.

I mean, if you do the "Obama Snap" that is...that's why most of us are here. Myself, I lost it just last week, after the proposed EPA regs were scrapped. I'm doing better now, I don't have to be sedated anymore, and my profane Tourette's has diminished considerably. Fffff ---ffff... fu..fu..see, it's really under control! I'm getting strong again.

The majority of the crew were committed after the debt deal, I guess the sheer audacity and number of insults we've suffered reached critical mass.

They don't let us discuss politics here; they're very strict about that, it's the main part of our recovery therapy...but it's looking like the Yanks and the Sox are going to go at it in the playoffs again, and Big Nurse is going on vacation for a month beginning next week, so we'll get to watch the whole thing, maybe even the Series too. Junior Bob says he's got some beer and smokes coming - we'll see, you know how that goes.

Anyway, I expect we'll see you soon, and don't worry, it's really not so bad here.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #97
112. Tee.....hee, pfft
:rofl:
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #97
196. Well, Will... looks like Commander Compromise capitulated again. That room is
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 09:34 PM by Zorra
is still open, but there's another influx of toasted progressives that just came in here to Happyland Home for the Politically Insane. Better hurry!

Do you want to try to drive here yourself, or do you want a ride in the Big White Van? The van will probably be safer for you; I think you already know this.

Anyway, like I said earlier today, we expected to see you soon.

Welcome to Happyland!

So, how bout them Sox, huh?

:beer: - :popcorn:

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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
100. I'll lose my mind next
someone in the WH will probably apologize and then make fun of unions and liberals in the same sentence. :bang:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
101. Kicked and recommended!
When is Obama going to issue his apology?
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
102. UNREC for upsetting people and not conceding that Obama had NO COMMENT, please issue UPDATE nt
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 03:59 PM by flamingdem
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
104. Hell yes!
though I've already pretty much lost any hope for Obama and can't see voting for him at this point.
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w0nderer Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
106. k&r n/t
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
108. K & R !
It is very important to see how the President handles this. I hope he is getting the correct advice.
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spedtr90 Donating Member (459 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
114. 
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 04:38 PM by spedtr90
...and that the right has to "fight the Mother of all wars" against him.

(In June, at their private meeting with wealthy donors.)

Guess Koch needs to apologize first. If he doesn't need to....


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/09/06/312067/at-...
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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
115. Gets you a padded room ready.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
116. Is there ANY action from the past that would lead you to believe he would stand up to them?
If he stands up to them in any shape form or fashion that will be a surprise - although it is starting campaign season and candidate Obama has a different tune than President Obama.
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Muskypundit Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
117. To me hoffas statement is exactly the kind of thing we scream about when we hear it on the right.
All the same arguments are used, all the same excuses... Yada Yada Yada. There is no excuse for using language like he used. It's exactly like palins don't retreat reload. It's bullshit, we are not the party of violence, and speech like that takes away from the message, plain and simple.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. don't hurt your hands.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #117
150. so point out the violent elements in the Left, unlike on the Right-I haven't seen any
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Muskypundit Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #150
168. It doesnt matter that there arnt any
Statements like his are amazingly reckless, because it risks creating violent strains. Or, more probable and more dangerous, makes the left look violent to the center. Regardless of the fact we are not.

That is how you lose the center, with quasi violent statements. That is how you empower the right, and that is how you lose elections.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #168
193. REALLY? So using language like that during the 2010 election is what made
the GOP/TP LOSE all elections? They haven't won the House? I think the mushy oatmeal middle is upset over nothing. I understand that Faux & the rest of the infotainment can will & did try their best to make Dems look scary/bad/ANGRY/dangerous/out of touch.


I remember how they portrayed Gore in 2000, called him an angry out0of0control unfeeling robot.



your excuses don't convince me, I like what Hoffa said & I like his delivery.
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Muskypundit Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #193
200. Language like that is why Giffords and a dozen other people got shot.
Language like that is why there are a million shit stain rush limbaugh militias around this country. We are the responsible adults in this country, and that is why we are poised to win in 2012. Acting like them will get us nowhere, and only add to the hatred this country is reeling from. I dont like his language, its self defeating and scary. Just like the reich wingers.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
118. Of course he will back down. It's already started. n/t
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
120. read it and weep
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Marnie Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
124. Obama has the perfect moment to show what he really
stands for.

When you think about it it is profoundly sad that loyal Democrats/liberals/progressives/union memebers/working class Americans have to hold their breaths to see whether the party leader they elected will stand up for them or stab them again.

Think about that and be very very saddened.

Et tu Barak?
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
127. Derp...nt
Sid
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #127
182. Hahahahahaha!!!!
I stole that fucking picture, man!
That is funnier than shit!!
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
129. Well, the history of the unions was such...
...that if legal remedies were inadequate, it was sometimes necessary to resort to intimidation, property destruction and occasionally violence--especially when violence was being used to suppress the union.

Maybe not a bad idea to remind the fascists of that, even though it is clear that the context of the speech was directed toward elections, not violence.
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w0nderer Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #129
191. that's actually the much forgotten purpose
of at least May 1st in Europe

dunno bout labor day here

May 1st demonstrations in western Europe are all about power demonstration for the employers
WE took a paid holiday (forced you to give us one)
WE spend it showing you our power, how we stand united and willing to fight
WE fire ourselves up to remember why we vote for our labor friendly reps and why we 'fight'
WE warn you by our mere numbers, by our resolve, by our standing united in all towns across the countries...don't step on us too hard

forgetting that means loosing the intimidation of 'strike' 'united we stand workers'
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. +1 nt
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:45 PM
Original message
No apology is needed, it's called freedom of speech.
As for Obama, stay out of it!
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
130. K&R
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
131. Sounds like Hoffa is throwing down the glove.
He's giving Obama a chance to pick it up and do what Senator Obama promised. If POTUS does not pick it up, the Unions will know to look elsewhere, a primary challenge, a new party, or sitting this one out with the intention of trying to dethrone Perry in '16.
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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
138. Hell...they've called President Obama worst...where are the apologies?
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
145. Totally agree, the tea party and the billionaires really crossed the line.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
148. AB-SO-'EFFING-LUTELY! But Don't Place Any Bets That He WON'T
BACK DOWN! Fighting fire with fire doesn't seem to be something he has in his DNA! I myself have given up on trying to figure this person out. POTUS, perhaps in name only!

It is now time that WE as Democrats stand up and quit covering HIS behind when he keeps caving! If he can't see us BEGGING for him to take action now, I doubt he ever will! I had thought that no matter what, given what the other side is putting up that he would probably get re-elected. Now, I wouldn't put a dime down on it.

An extremely sad state of affairs. I'm with Hoffa & Trumka and all others who are trying so hard to make him see. He seems blind AND oblivious and I find this outrageous.

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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
151. WHAT IS IT with their needing APOLOGIES all the time?
They're LUCKY that WORSE hasn't been publicly said about them, as corrupt & insensitive as they are.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #151
152. Talk radio and Fox News is built on the foundation of victimization
they just can't catch a break you see BUT if you follow *me* (Rush, O'Reilly, etc.) I will lead you out of the wilderness while manly being such a WINNER!!

it goes something like that.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
155. unrec because you have an inaccurate quote
that makes Hoffa's remark look like a call to violence.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
158. I don't see an upside to doing so, and I can't imagine the White House does either.
To speculate they may is just unnecessary and premature hand wringing.

The administration has frustrated many here with what most view as traitorous aisle crossing and caving like a grass hut in a snowstorm, but it'd be incredible that the White House doesn't know this faux issue will fade quietly away in three news cycles.

I'm not even sure they have time to "apologize" before the next big thing catches the right's attention. As you recall, there's been one "crisis" after another on a weekly basis for 3 years, from the birth certificate and death panels to Michelle's vacation itinerary.

No one has to clarify for Mr Hoffa, he chose his words carefully.
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redwhiteblue Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
165. Why apologize?
Why should Obama apologize for something Hoffa said?
He cannot be responsible for everything that comes out of other people's mouth.
The cry babies should think about all the insulting and vulgar things that come out of Rush Limbaugh . Ann Coulter and Glen Beck. I am listening for an apology from all of them. Grow up you poor abused whiners.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
167. of course he will
COUNT ON IT
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #167
171. He has. Here it is:
"Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself, he speaks for the labor movement, AFL-CIO, Carney said, in response to a reporters question. The president speaks for himself. I speak for the president."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-hoffa-carney...
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #171
178. Well, that didn't take long, did it?
I wonder if Obama is going to campaign on anyone else's behalf this way in 2012?

I've got a bag of a dozen, old, crusty donuts I bought 2 months ago to bet that he does.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #178
199. Um.. check your outrage meter. It's broken.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #199
201. Nope, sorry lumpy, it doesn't work that way in my house.
Do what you want in yours, but not in mine.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #171
198. Um... that isn't in ANY WAY an apology.

You're off base.


"Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself" is the exact opposite of an apology.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #198
203. CORRECT
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 09:55 PM by Skittles
it's a COWARD'S DISAVOWAL
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #203
208. Not even close to accurate... but you're looking for reasons to be outraged...


"Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself" is the exact correct response to the question:

"What did you think of Mr. Hoffa's comments?"



It is 180 degrees from a "disavowal".
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #198
204. No one thought for a minute that Hoffa was speaking
Edited on Tue Sep-06-11 10:29 PM by ooglymoogly
for "0", nor did Hoffa claim to, in any way, be speaking for "0". It was not necessary for "0" to say Hoffa speaks for himself. So what was the purpose of the "comment"??????....but to say "0" does not want to be associated in any way with Hoffa's speech.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #204
206. Um... Carney was asked about the comment. Carney's answer was "Hoffa speaks for himself"


The exact appropriate response.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #206
216. Ummm....I believe the end of the quote was "I speak for the President"
the full quote:

Carney said, Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself. He speaks for the labor movement, AFL-CIO. The president speaks for himself. I speak for the president.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
180. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
tawadi Donating Member (631 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
183. Same here
Though I am mentally preparing myself for it.
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Hello World Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
184. Don't torture yourself, most today would be shocked if he actually ran with the lead hoffa just gave
of course he should put it in diplomatic terms and phrases, but he should definitely take this opprotunity to reframe the debate.

unfortunately, he works for the man, imho.

:hi:
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #184
221. Yes indeed. nr
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
185. Have you still got your faculties, as of this evening?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #185
189. It wasn't as bad as it could have been.
Blowing the union affiliation, however, does make me want to punch myself.

I swear to God, these people could fuck up the recipe for boiled water.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #189
210. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #210
219. Speaking of faulty reasoning....Jeeeeeeeees.
The full quote:

Carney said, Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself. He speaks for the labor movement, AFL-CIO. The president speaks for himself. I speak for the president.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #210
226. scheming daemons?
Speak for yourself
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #210
227. If you hate Labor, it is.
"The President agree with Mr. Hoffa" would have been the CORRECT response.
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a2liberal Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #227
244. This. Thanks for putting it so succinctly
A disavowal/disassociation, while not technically an apology, is in the same vein. It's saying "I don't want to be associated with those comments". A strong supporter of labor would have backed Hoffa up. The apologists may not like that, but those are the facts.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #210
231. Exactly. Used to be folks at least looked for something INTERESTING to froth over
Now, half these folks are in tears because it's a Thursday.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
205. This is class warfare, we are under attack, not only should have said "take them out" he should have
added, "and prosecute them for war crimes".
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #205
225. Now you are on to something nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
212. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #212
215. Sniff... what's that smell?
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orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
217. K & R
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
229. think someone with the vids
is going to come up with a quick display of every gutter language word the tea party has ever said. Sorry excuse me. THis is a FREE COUNTRY. fuck off tea party. you love to say Jesus Christ and God Damn when that suits you. even though your breaking a commandment. Or beat up your wife or whatever. Ain't shutting me up. I don't shut you up your not shutting me up.
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Zambero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
232. Harry Truman would have approved
That's good enough for me. No words are too harsh when levied against those who seek to wipe out the hard-earned progress of the past 50+ years. Say it loud and say it often!
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
233. Good for Hoffa. A little tough talk shock doctrine has them all running for the smelling salts.
Edited on Wed Sep-07-11 12:29 AM by chill_wind
Or pretending to. The RW crazies and their media tools have forgotten for decades, it seems, what it's like to be confronted. Really confronted. I expect nothing of this sort from Obama, but I hope Hoffa is just warming up and gets his army.

K & R.



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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
235. USA today NO apology from White House.
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Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
236. I'll apologize
with the business end of a buggy whip!
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Fruittree Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
238. I don't think he should apologize either particularly
as he didn't say anything but it is kind of curious that people seem to view politeness and a willingness to work together as weak and wrong somehow. How did our society get this way?
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
239. Let 'em stew in it for as long as it takes. No apology. nt
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
241. Hoffa and the President should apologize
Hoffa to sons of bitches everywhere for insulting them by comparing the average son of a bitch to the fucking sociopaths he was actually referring to.
And President Obama to everyone else for not calling them sons of bitches about a year and a half ago when they were clearly sons of bitches but not yet complete sociopaths.
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unionworks Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
243. what we're up against
I was in the steelworkers in the 70's and was in a UE organizing drive in the 90's. I have and still do survive in non union shops. I have had my car vandalized, had my family harrassed, and have been physically confronted by company paid goons. These people do not care about your delicate naieve sense of fairness and decency. They will do whatever it takes to break labor, up to and iincluding having you bumped off if they can get away with it. In the light of what. These SOBs have been doing I feel Mr. Hoffas words were too gentle.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-11 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
249. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
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