Why Finland's schools are among the best in the world, and U.S.'s are among the worst

[Sarah Ibarruri]

(This article pretty much spells it out - here's an excerpt).



”There are no mandated standardized tests in Finland, apart from one exam at the end of students’ senior year in high school. There are no rankings, no comparisons or competition between students, schools or regions. Finland’s schools are publicly funded. The people in the government agencies running them, from national officials to local authorities, are educators, not business people, military leaders or career politicians. Every school has the same national goals and draws from the same pool of university-trained educators. The result is that a Finnish child has a good shot at getting the same quality education no matter whether he or she lives in a rural village or a university town. The differences between weakest and strongest students are the smallest in the world, according to the most recent survey by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). “Equality is the most important word in Finnish education. All political parties on the right and left agree on this,” said Olli Luukkainen, president of Finland’s powerful teachers union.

Many schools are small enough so that teachers know every student. If one method fails, teachers consult with colleagues to try something else. They seem to relish the challenges. Nearly 30 percent of Finland’s children receive some kind of special help during their first nine years of school. The school where Louhivuori teaches served 240 first through ninth graders last year; and in contrast with Finland’s reputation for ethnic homogeneity, more than half of its 150 elementary-level students are immigrants—from Somalia, Iraq, Russia, Bangladesh, Estonia and Ethiopia, among other nations. “Children from wealthy families with lots of education can be taught by stupid teachers,” Louhivuori said, smiling. “We try to catch the weak students. It’s deep in our thinking.”

In the United States, which has muddled along in the middle for the past decade, government officials have attempted to introduce marketplace competition into public schools. In recent years, a group of Wall Street financiers and philanthropists such as Bill Gates have put money behind private-sector ideas, such as vouchers, data-driven curriculum and charter schools, which have doubled in number in the past decade. President Obama, too, has apparently bet on compe­tition. His Race to the Top initiative invites states to compete for federal dollars using tests and other methods to measure teachers, a philosophy that would not fly in Finland. “I think, in fact, teachers would tear off their shirts,” said Timo Heikkinen, a Helsinki principal with 24 years of teaching experience. “If you only measure the statistics, you miss the human aspect.

ARTICLE IS LOCATED HERE: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html#ixzz1W8Mh39cC

[Orrex]

1. Bah! In terms of training our children to become eager, unquestioning consumers, we're way ahead!

And at the end of the day, isn't that what it's all about?

[txlibdem]

2. And to become unquestioning, never-complaining, take it in the "A" wage slaves...

... who will be tossed to the wayside if they ever DO complain, ever DO start to question the decisions of the almighty bosses.

[Blue_Tires]

10. +1

[Sarah Ibarruri]

52. Yep! nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. Must be! ;-) nt

[seabeyond]

20. why in the hell would a parent allow this to happen to their children? where is their

part in the childs development? cause i gotta tell ya, a parent has a zillion x's more influence. so if this happens, look at the parent that send a child to school, and that is as far as they go.

[Beer is God]

60. U-S-A! U-S-A!

Nobody prepares kids for 19th-century life like we do! :patriot:

[mwb970]

3. America can only dream of maybe someday catching up with Finland.

And Latvia. And Sweden. And all the other two-dozen-odd countries whose students consistently score above American students on achievement tests.

America as smart as Finland? Maybe someday. A fellow can dream, can't he?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

16. It'll never happen. Not as long as there are Republicans.

A well-educated population will not vote right wing.

[dkf]

4. China Beats Out Finland for Top Marks in Education

But the big revelation was the spectacular performance of Asian nations, especially those adolescents from China whose reading comprehension was tested. Four of the top five reading performers in the survey were Asian, with Singapore and Korea joining Shanghai and Hong Kong at the head of the class.

Among non-Asian countries, only Finland kept up at the very top, although Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the Netherlands were not far behind. Japan also ranked in the top 10.

In mathematics, the Chinese results were just as spectacular as in reading: more than 1 in 4 of the Shanghai 15-year-olds showed themselves able to conceptualize, generalize and creatively use information, including modeling complex problems, compared with just 3% of students in the OECD area.

Two Chinese cities, of course, don't constitute the academic performance of an entire nation of more than 1 billion people. But in a policy-implications brief for Arne Duncan, the U.S. Education Secretary, the OECD tried to explain why Shanghai and Hong Kong had such high-performing schools.

Among the lessons to be learned was that authorities in both cities abandoned their focus on educating a small elite, and instead worked to construct a more inclusive system. They also significantly increased teacher pay and training, reducing the emphasis on rote learning and focusing classroom activities on problem solving. In Shanghai, now a pioneer of educational reform, "there has been a sea change in pedagogy," the OECD said. It pointed out that one new slogan used in classrooms today is: "To every question there should be more than a single answer."


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2035586,00.html

[FarCenter]

13. It's the parents

The Finnish students have Finnish parents and grow up in Finnish society. The Chinese kids have Chinese parents and grow up in Chinese society.

Chinese students in inner-city US schools do far better in math than ESL students from other nations.

A couple of decades ago, the top two students of high schools in NJ were about 1/3 East Asian and 1/3 South Asian.

Possibly it is genetic. More likely it is the culture of the family that matters most. Educators in the US are reluctant to intervene in the child's cultural values, with the result that beneficial cultural changes are not happening. The small school in Finland teaching immigrant children undoubtedly does so in a Finnish cultural manner.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

17. China is also a hellish dive of a place. Let's face it, Finland beats us in any area. nt

[dkf]

24. I doubt we have much to fear from the Finnish people.

They aren't the ones buying our bonds and telling us how to do things.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

27. Nope. But the issue is education. The GOP has spent decades degrading our educational system

And Finland has a formula that works. Since the Repukes have been chipping away at our educational system, we have a system that does NOT work well.

[tclambert]

112. In driver's Ed, they teach their kids to do the Scandinavian flick.

[jtuck004]

115. Maybe that's the point. They simply don't need us, we don't have to eat

each other like China and U.S. are doing.

[Nevernose]

64. Secondary education is not mandated there

Only about the top third attend, and then their families have to pay, as virtually all secondary schools are what we think of as private. It's an apples/oranges comparison. I'm sure if we compared only our nation's exclusive Ivy League prep schools with other nations schools, we'd look pretty darn good. (And, in fact, when comparinf just our top 50% of all students, we do)

[The2ndWheel]

5. "There are no rankings, no comparisons or competition"

Yet here we are, ranking schools in Finland, the US, and all over the world, to find out who has been, is, or will be more competitive.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

18. Stating facts is not a race. Stating facts is stating facts. In a race, there's a loser who

doesn't get the prize.

This stating of facts was not a competition to see who would win the prize.

[theaocp]

6. The way we're going, the genetic discrimination of

Gattaca will be common practice.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. Explain, please. I'm familiar with Gattaca, but how do you mean? nt

[theaocp]

29. People that are predisposed to "success" (i.e.-wealthy and connected)

are going to have the advantages, while everyone else will be placed where they can be best used. There are tons of other references to this caste-style society concept, but I watched Gattaca last night, so it stuck out to me. I hope that makes sense.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

33. Ah! Thank you. So true. nt

[xchrom]

7. Recommend

[City Lights]

8. Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting.

Rec'd.

[IndyPragmatist]

9. I think we have relied on schools too much for education

This is one thing I agree with the GOP 100% on: Parents must be involved in their child's education.

The one thing I noticed when spending extended time in Denmark and Switzerland is that parents are heavily involved in their child's education. The schools are great, but the recognize schools as just PART of education. Too many people here expect to put their kid on the bus in the morning, get them off in the afternoon, and have their education completely taken care of. Some children may succeed with that, but most wont.

“If you only measure the statistics, you miss the human aspect." Who knows the human aspect of their child's education better than the parents? Our public education system is failing because far too many parents have decided that the school can provide all the education a child will ever need. I am very thankful that my mother was very involved in my education from a very young age.

The best education comes when a student gets person attention. A teacher can provide some personal attention, but there is no way that is possible with every student in the class. If parents are giving attention to their child, they won't need as much from the teacher. Thus, the teacher is able to focus on those that are in the most need and provide them with thorough one-on-one time, instead of spreading it out across each student and not being able to provide the proper level.

[seabeyond]

21. this is the obvious, but much better to pretend it is not a part of the equation. nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. I completely disagree. Parents are for raising children. They should not be the kids' doctors,

teachers, or other professionals and adjuncts the child requires.

I do agree that parents should be aware and perhaps add to the education of a child. Replace it? No. Not unless we end up without a public school system, as the GOP has been hoping to do since before 1980.

[seabeyond]

28. did anyone say replace it? from day one i was educating my children and havent stopped

i encourage all manners for them to learn, think and grow. thru dinner conversations, 3 subscription magazines, to educational shows and a continual emphasis on exploring, thinking, discussing, learning, challenging.

wht child has the ore rounded education?

that is the parents job.

[Pithlet]

31. No, but I"m starting to see a disturbing trend of using this as a talking point.

Yes, parents need to be involved. No, it isn't an excuse to dismantle our schools.

[seabeyond]

34. interesting. i see, we are seeing it from two different angles.

so i appreciate your post.

you are seeing the reasoning as being used to dismantle the schools.

i am seeing ignoring parental involvement as an effort in dismantling the schools. over the years, and kids in the system, i have watched the children whose parents were involved do well in the schools. i have watched teachers work their ass off. i have listened to the adm address issues in ways that will allow children to be the most successful.

yet i am watching the dismantling of the schools with the excuse that the teachers are not successful, when the lack of success is coming from the children and the parents not doing their job. you cannot force a child to success. the opportunities are the for the children. it is theirs to grab or not.

[Pithlet]

41. I'm saying they're two different issues.

Yes, a child's success is going to depend in part on their parent's involvement. But he attack on teachers by those who wish to destroy our schools is merely a method. They know what they are doing. When people go into these discussions squawking about parental involvement, that is a distraction, IMO. I don't believe that the problem with our schools is a deterioration of parental involvement.

[seabeyond]

43. i believe it is. i have had my kids in 4 different environments in education

and the big problem i see is home environment. the education is there. the curriculum is more advanced at earlier years, than ever before in the past. the schools continually implementing more ideas to help a student be successful. they can only go so far.

middle school. any student not doing well were put into tutoring before or after school. the parents bitched about it. interfered with their schedule. i was thanking the teachers for doing it with my child.

[Pithlet]

44. Right! Parents these days just don't care!

So why not buy into these crazy reforms..

Don't buy it. Sorry.

[seabeyond]

45. many many many factors. just dont care is probably the least... nt

[Pithlet]

46. And of the many factors going on with our schools?

I think parental involvement is probably the least. We didn't have to buy a bazillion dollars worth of school supplies at the beginning of the school year when I went to school. Because they were adequately funded back then. Hell, my school existed. It's closed, now. My school's teachers were protected by a stronger union. My boys' teachers? Have to compete with new hires from Teach For America. My lovely state is passing all kinds of measures left and right that is absolutely gutting our public school's funding and destroying our schools. My teachers didn't have pressure to teach to the test. They could be a lot more creative in their lesson planning. Private contractors can now set up online schools and sign up students and receive our tax funded dollars, sucking even more funding away from our public schools. They'll get millions. Meanwhile more of our teachers just got laid off.

So, parental involvement, you say? That's the issue? I don't think so.

[seabeyond]

49. ok... how did we get to the point of allowing this. thru the argument schools, teachers were

failing. i agree all this is the dismantling of the schools and the hugest of problems. i am with you on this. as i said, schools are doing more and more to ensure the success of the student as more and more students are dropping out. but the dismantling has only been the last handful of years. what brought us to the place they were able to attack the schools in this manner. why were our students failing when everything about the schools are improving, academically.

back in the 90's i was hearing how bad the public schools were. i put my kids in private. after so many years, i was seeing the public schools were kicking the private schools ass. i got them into public and have been impressed as hell.

[Pithlet]

50. What brought us to this place that they were able to do this?

We've elected the kind of politicians that would allow it, that want it to happen. That's basically it in a nutshell. We get what we vote for. There hasn't been a mass case of a drop in parental involvement. Our schools declining is one of many other problems we're facing in the decline of our middle class. If we don't shape up soon we're in a world of hurt.

[seabeyond]

63. how the hell did those politicians on both sides of the isle find attacking public education

acceptable and a way to get elected? the VOTERS. parents that have decided their childs failure is the schools fault.

[Pithlet]

66. Sea.... I don't get you. I really don't. n/t

[Pithlet]

67. No,I change my mind, I am going to respond.

Then that would be political, then wouldn't it? NOT parental involvement. It's a political attack on the schools. All voters, not just parents, vote. And parents vote for other reasons, not just for schools. They may not realize that who they vote for is going to hurt the schools. So again, my point stands. It's the attack on schools hurting the schools. Not direct parental involvement.

[seabeyond]

69. it is because as a society we have decided to drop all the ills of our world on the schools

that has allowed it. so every child that fails can blame the schools and the teachers instead of bucking up and taking advantage of all that is offered them. where does that come from? the home.

the repugs have been attacking the intellectual elitists. the repugs have attack education as the flamin liberals to brainwash the children. bushco spent a decade embracing and cheering stupid. kids are working damn hard at not learning.

where does that come from?

the home

[Pithlet]

74. Bottom line is it won't go away by blaming parents.

So bringing up parental involvement every time the discussion of the attack on our public schools comes up won't help matters at all. Fight the real enemy.

[seabeyond]

76. IF we had addressed teh real issue way back when, they would not have had the foothold

to dismantle the schools. and still, looking away from the real issue, will never solve the solution, cause you arent looking at the problem.

so again

i disagree with you

[Pithlet]

80. Well, couldn't the same thing be said about anything?

Not just schools? We shouldn't have ever let them get in? Who cares? We don't let them get away with it. And again. Blaming the parents (or the teachers, or the admins, whatever) won't accomplish anything.

[Pithlet]

53. Another thing

You mention your experiences with school. Our schools are very uneven in this country. It's not as if all of our public schools in this country are terrible. They really aren't. You can easily have excellent local public schools that are better than the private ones. One problem is with the way we fund our schools. We end up with with well funded schools in wealthy areas, and poorly funded schools in low income areas. I think a lot of damage has been done from the perception of overall decline where none existed, and the fix (No Child Left Behind, high stakes testing) has just made things much worse.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pithlet]

58. Parental involvment helps a child do well in school. Absolutely.

But it has nothing to do with the movement to destroy our schools. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

[maddiemom]

110. Parental involvement

So very true. I agree completely, both as a parent and teacher.

[IndyPragmatist]

38. Parental involvement should be a supplement to schools, not a replacement

Honestly, I don't know how you get parents to be more involved. Cutting education just hurts the student, it rarely spurs parents to increase their involvement.

[DrDan]

11. the key -

"The people in the government agencies running them, from national officials to local authorities, are educators, not business people, military leaders or career politicians."

Of course, when there is money involved, the business folk cannot stay out. Hence our sad situation building in the U.S.

[RKP5637]

12. Exactly! n/t

[DrDan]

15. funny - when it comes to war strategy, we "listen to our generals"

With the education of our children, however, the profit takers have the loud voice.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

25. Yep. Typical right wing ideology. How will we change that? nt

[RKP5637]

32. It's a very strange society. n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

23. The U.S. has a LOT of bad situations. All brought about by right wingnuts. nt

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LWolf]

26. Yes. nt

[msanthrope]

30. I wish our teachers were as educated as Finland's are. Frankly, I don't care for the segregation

your article describes of certain students, nor do I care for the lingering tracking system---if it's bad to track at 11, I can't see why tracking at 16 is okay.

That said, Finland does have good vocational schools--nearly half of all Finns go to one. Do we want to do that to America's children, at 16? It seems to me to be a system that relies on slotting kids at the end.

I wonder if American teachers would obtain the level of education that Finnish one's do? If I remember correctly, national standards were put into place in Finland, along with state-implemented master's programs. Is that what you are advocating here?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

35. I'm a teacher. Are you telling me I'm not well-educated? I have, in my years of teaching...

not met one 'bad' teacher, or a teacher who didn't know far more than the average American.

If you want to know who has destroyed our schools, stop listening to the Repukes, and look 'AT' the Repukes themselves.

I could write a treatise on what the Republicans have done to schools from the 60s to the present, to degrade and destroy them in their goal of doing away with public schooling. Public schooling is the enemy of right wing ideology and fascism.

[msanthrope]

39. Really? What an elite group. All teachers you know are smarter than the average American?

You posted an article about Finland.

In Finland, all teachers are mandated to take a master's degree program from a state-run university. That's a 300 credit, five year degree. Only the top students get in--it's highly competitive. That's not the reality we have here.

When I taught, the teachers I met were just like everyone else--the good, the bad, and the ugly. Some well-educated, others, not so much.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

40. Sadly, yes. I lived in 3 countries. I taught in 2: Spain and here.

Trust me, even a shoe repairman in Spain is more aware of the world, and has more knowledge of history, geography, etc. than the average American.

Now tell me what you have against teachers. That's a typically, typically Republican point of view.

[seabeyond]

42. comments like this make me think you are against teachers. both boys can name EVERY country in

africa. my oldest took a world history college course his soph year in HS. he hit every part of the world, learning about the area in all kinds of manner.

i had a niece gigglin at 15 saying she didnt know the difference between N Mexico and Mexico.... she embraced stupid. what is a teacher gonna do with that student. she lives in texas, for christ sake. and she doesnt know the difference between the two. right.

are we really suggesting the school failed the girl?

[msanthrope]

68. Wow. Anti-Americanism and class warfare all in one post!

When I was a teacher, I found that some of my colleagues tended to indulge themselves in a sense of academic and intellectual superiority that made them impervious to self-awareness.

Teachers are no more, and no less, like every other person working a tough job. When you set yourself apart, and above everyone else, you set yourself up for prideful failure.

What attitude do you think you give to the 'average American' in the classroom? Perhaps we are all just too stupid to perceive your excellence?

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FourScore]

47. Important. n/t

[hfojvt]

48. ah yes, we will always have Finland

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071311.shtml

[Sarah Ibarruri]

51. I looked up who publishes your quoted, The Daily Howler, and it's a Tea Party lover who attacks PBS

He adores Pam Stout, one of the Tea Party members. Uh... not anyone I would respect or trust.

[hfojvt]

83. PBS in fact, often does suck

and Pam Stout, is, in fact, a charming little old lady. Not exactly Grover Norquist. As for Somerby, as it turns out, he was Al Gore's college roommate. He has done considerable and excellent work detailing the media's "War on Gore" http://www.howhegotthere.blogspot.com/

He also is a former teacher in the Baltimore schools in the 1960s and writes quite a bit about how the media dissembles and fumbles and recites favorite scrips on education 'reform' http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh022211.shtml

Finding Pam Stout to be charming does not mean that he loves the Tea Party. Pam Stout could be anybody's kindly grandmother, favorite aunt, or grade school teacher.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

87. Yeah, Tea Partyers are simply charming! I guess so are GOPers, and other fascists. nt

[msanthrope]

71. "Finland, Finland, Finland".......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGWqtwhS2KY

[gratuitous]

54. Well, sure if you're going to spend education dollars on education

You can probably get a LOT of educated students out of the system. But we want to spend our education dollars on helping the winners win. Everybody likes winners! The only problems we solve by throwing money at them are related to the military and weapons systems. We can't just throw money at schools, because, uh . . . Up yours.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

55. 2nd amendment? What side are you on? nt

[gratuitous]

61. The side that makes sense

Of course! :evilgrin:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

77. Clearly it can't be the anti-gun side, or you'd just blurt it out. nt

[msanthrope]

90. I think you need to check your sarcasm meter. n/t

[DissedByBush]

109. We do throw money at schools

As of 2000 we were spending over $10,000 per student per year, more than the countries that beat us in education.

The problem is that the money is not spent efficiently, educating students not paying bureaucrats, focusing on core learning instead of feel-good indoctrination, paying good teachers well and quickly ridding ourselves of the bad ones.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

I see that anything that points out how the GOP is destroying public schools brings out GOPers here

Wonder what else might.

I always knew DU had right wing lurkers, but this topic really brings them out.

[Pithlet]

59. Oh, that's just in your imagination!

There's no enemy to fight! Parents these days just don't care..

[seabeyond]

62. the schools here are 4x4. four years math, science, english and history

my son is in pre calculus. and physics. his junior year. next year i assume calculus. he took a college chemistry class last year.

where is the school failing my son in his education?

if i stand up for our public schools and our teachers, i am a right winger?

really?

brilliant.

[Pithlet]

65. No.

But if you were arguing with my contention that those who think the only problem is parental involvement, then what was I to think? That was my whole point, and you were arguing with me. I stand up for public schools, too! Duh.

[seabeyond]

70. i dont see how you can say you stand up for the public schools

when all that is offered for kids to learn, all that is put forth to help the child, the advance courses kids are taking today and the challenge the teachers and adm have from all sides, is ignored.....

this poster you responded to had a thread a couple days ago about the STUPID kids of texas, because of the books published. didnt matter how none of that shit is in the schools, or the reality of what courses kids take or the work teachers did.

i was a fuckin rw'er cause i refused to embrace my kids are fuckin stupid. then i am told, forget all the work you see, all the learning going on .... what the reality is in the school... otherwise i am jsut being too sensitive.

how do you think any one of the teachers that are busting their ass would feel reading about what a piss poor job they do teaching our kids?

because i talk to teachers regularly about my kids, and see the extra mile the teachers go to help my kids, i know they would be bothered.... by a thread saying how all kids in texas are fuckin stupid.

[Pithlet]

75. I don't know how you can accuse me of ignoring the challenge to teachers and admins

They're the ones I'm sticking up for. I'm not the one going into the discussion and squawking about parental involvement, deflecting from the attack on teachers and admin.

I didn't accuse you of being a RWer. I just don't understand your defense of such a tactic. You're attacking me and I haven't the faintest clue why. It's baffling. ETA I think we got our wires crossed somewhere.

[seabeyond]

79. we can give all the money, and i am all for it. we can give teachers all the support

and i am certainly for that.

we can recognize the amazing work public schools are doing and i am for that.

we can recognize privatizing is only going to fuck things up worse, and i am for that.

and until we recognize that even with all that effort, we will have kids drop out, kids not achieve, kids that will not excel for a number of reasons, the same issues will be there.

the reason it is important, is because we have allowed public schools to be our scapegoat, it is allowing the privatizing of it and defunding the schools, and testing that behooves no one and setting schools up for failure. it will not matter what plans are implemented until we recognize certain things in our society today allow the failures of our children regardless of what teachers and schools do.

only giving ammunition to repugs to dismantle and privatize.

we need vocational schools. we need living wage. we need jobs that kids can train for without traditional education. we need higher expectation of our kids.

[Pithlet]

81. Talk about give ammunition.

"It's parental involvement" is exactly the kind of stuff they use to excuse their policies. Not their union busting, or high stakes testing, or uneven funding. Oh, no, it's not that. It's the parents. That's what I mean. All the parental involvement in the world won't overcome those issues.

[seabeyond]

84. you and i are dancing around the same shit

my bottom line is the schools and teachers are not a failure, EXCEPT all the ideas being implemented to destroy the schools...

that is my position.

i want them, and liberals, and our president to leave the schools the fuck alone and give them what they need.

[seabeyond]

85. also, i hear a lot about only addressing the GOP in all this. for years on du,

i ahve listened to thread after thread of attack on our school system and our teachers arguing their failure. so in my discussion on this thread, my mind is not only addressing the GOP. we liberals had our part in it, too.

[Pithlet]

97. Well, gee, why would you hear that on DU?

:silly: No, liberals don't have a part in it. Do some centrist Dems on a political level? Absolutely.

[seabeyond]

101. you a liberal? sarah? OMG china beats us. OMG japan beats us. OMG finland beats us

OMG texas books, ALL the texas kids are stupid.

OMG....

what do you think is feeding the fuckin repugs.

OMG

[Pithlet]

103. OMG I have no idea what you're talking about, now.

You're making absolutely no sense.

[seabeyond]

104. for almost two decades we have been getting these studies how our schools dont measure up to other

countries.

it is these studies, and people embracing them as religious fact that has allowed the repugs to make their move. to denigrate our system. to do the harm.

it is our liberals that dont look beyond a GD title to see why

are the courses not offered?
are the opportunities to learn not there?

just, we as a nation fail in our public schools. they have been used by the repugs for failed schools and the dems have been right along the side.

along with titles like ALL kids in texas are stupid.

what is that doing to create this mess. what is our part, when we blindly accept without knowing why.

do you think we are just getting other countries scoring higher than american? it has been going on for a long time. well before the charter schools and defunding and attack on teachers that you blame on repugs.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

88. Exactly. Parental involvement is another GOP tactic. That, and accusing teachers.

I consider anyone who blames teachers and parents for the damage done to school by right wingnuts, to be just a common garden variety right winger.

[seabeyond]

95. it says something about a teacher that resorts to labeling people with lmited insight

and unwilingness to address a bigger issue, now doesnt it. and you are teaching our children? are you telling them that they are not to take blame for any of their failure. ALL their failure belongs on the GOP. i hope the kids argue with you and have higher expectations of themselves. but then, you would simply call them rw'ers and dismiss whatever they have to say.

rah... to your style of teaching.

[Pithlet]

96. Alright, Seabeyond. Tell me exactly how my parental involvement

which is mighty considerable, is going to overcome this new law that Tennesee passed, which allows private corporations to funnel tax dollars? How exactly is that going to help? How are the hours I spend sitting up with my kids doing their homework going to help the teachers who are fired because more experienced teachers are too expensive? Only so many hours in the day, Seabeyond. I really want to know how the hours spent volunteering with the PTA are going to change teach to the test? Tell me?

[Pithlet]

99. And with all the horror that my state has been passing

They say the same things. Use the same justifications. It's the parents. THey don't do enough. If only they cared more about their children's education. Utter nonsense. My kids aren't getting the kind of education I got. And it has everything to do with policies passed since I was a kid. Not because parents no longer care enough.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

78. Parents do care and don't have the time or resources. Further, when I went to school....

parents did NOT get involved in schooling except to maybe help with homework or once in a while explain something, and we got an excellent education. We had resources, there weren't cuts left and right, teachers were not threatened, teachers' unions were not threatened, kids wanted to study teaching.

Since the GOP, that is quickly becoming history.

[Pithlet]

98. Yep, which is why I can't stand it when people spew that crap.

It's just more bootstrappy nonsense. I completely agree.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

100. It's just Republican bs. Apparently Republicans like to hang out here as well.

It's not the first time and it won't be the last.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

57. I see that anything that points out how the GOP is destroying public schools brings out GOPers here

Wonder what else might.

I always knew DU had right wing lurkers, but this topic really brings them out.

[ParkieDem]

72. I don't want to belabor this point,

because it's often a RW meme and only has a kernel of truth to it, but one key issue here is population and administration.

Finland has 5.4 million people. The United States has about 20 states with greater populations. The US itself is fifty-seven times bigger than Finland.

I don't doubt that many of the Finnish ideas would work well in the US, the question is, could they be truly administered effectively for a population our size? I just don't know.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

86. The U.S. is the only country I know where an all-out war is being waged against public schools

The primary reason for this, is the right wing ideology against all unions, against truthful education, and against an educated population. All of these are direct threats to right wing ideology. A well educated population will not vote right wing because it would be voting against its own self-interests.

I think the Finns have a great many lessons to teach us on how to administer a school system, but in order to do that, we must revert the school system back to where it was before the right wingers began to tamper with it, and go from there.

I don't know why having an excellent school system would prove more problematic for a large country than for a small one, but I do know that the redistribution of wealth from the majority to the few at the top (a product of right wing ideology in vogue for the past 31 years), threatens our public schools.

[AngryAmish]

73. Maybe Finnish kids may jest have higher native IQ's?

Is that discussed in the article?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

89. Actually, the article seems to indicate that right wing ideology is what is hurting our schools

As everything they use to keep their schools top-notch is everything the right wingers are trying to destroy.

[LWolf]

105. There was a thread on DU recently

offering up a study claiming that liberals have higher IQs than conservatives:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1801831

Funny how it all goes together. Conservative and neo-liberal education policy lead to a poor education system.

[Cool Logic]

91. Finland is a tiny, monolithic country, with a responsible citizenry...

Your comparison is waaaaaaaaay too far from apples to apples to be relevant.

[DirkGently]

92. Trust teachers. The opposite of the current approach.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

93. Yep. Republicans have been at the business of destroying public schools since the 60s

They've been demonizing teachers (AND COLLEGE PROFESSORS!)because the result of an educated population, is that they do not vote right wing.

[DirkGently]

102. I really do think it's that, at the end of the day. Hatred of real learning.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

116. Yes - hatred of learning, fear of others, a need to worship authoritarian figures.

Right wingerism is like a sickness.

[Honeycombe8]

94. I've never heard that Finland's schools are among the world's best. Who says it is?

I mean, has a study been done or something?

I mean, you never hear someone say, "Gee, I don't know how good that doctor is. It's not like to went to school in Finland, you know."

You DO hear that about England, India, and the United States.

[chervilant]

108. Well, now...

A seminal study of public education in the US (The Coleman Report, 1966) substantiated that the strongest predictors of academic achievement are a student's family and PEERS (in short, a robustly supportive social environment). Instead of motivating educators to explore ways to capitalize on these important predictors of academic excellence, this study was "widely interpreted as saying that schools {do} not matter." And, voila! Our system of public education has gotten short shrift ever since.

In fact, over the past fifty years, our system of public education has been transformed into a corporate tool, intended to 'graduate' factory fodder or service industry drones. Sadly, the current POTUS seems bent on continuing this destructive initiative.

An honest assessment of public education in this United States mandates that we acknowledge that--for at least the last five decades--we've been trained AWAY from critical thinking skills and toward rote memorization, which means we can perform like trained monkeys on ridiculously expensive and pedantic standardized tests, but we can seldom help our children play math. We must understand that almost half of our adult population is functionally illiterate--able to read these words, mayhap, but incapable of describing the gist of what's read. And, we must accept that Bernays' propaganda techniques have helped produce a fearful, malleable, gullible, and PITIFUL citizenry, with a zombie-like addiction to television and a stultifying obsession with shopping. Any ONE of these facts ALONE compels us to rescue our co-opted and crumbling system of public education, but let's consider these key issues:

By the time we members of the vast hoi polloi get our high school diplomas, more than three-quarters of us are convinced that we have 'average or below average' intellects. This is an enormous crock of El Toro Poo Poo. Each and every one of us has a fully functioning, amazing brain. Contemporary research on timed IQ tests reveals that most of us would score 'near genius' on these tests--if the time element of the test is removed. I contend that each of us learns in our OWN way, at our OWN pace. If we were to revamp our system of public education to honor and celebrate this fact, profound things would ensue.

As important as dispelling the myth of predominantly 'average' intellects is addressing the fact that almost half (42%) of all children in the United States live in low-income households, where their parent(s) earn just enough to cover basic expenses (current data from NCCP). Personally, I think this under-represents the number of children who live in households defined as ‘low-income,’ given that less than one thousand people in the US own and control better than 95% of our nation’s wealth. Nevertheless, ‘low-income household’ is synonymous with precarious employment, frequent moves, poor nutrition, and a multitude of other threats to our children’s well-being, not to mention their ability to LEARN.

In short, children of low-income households must contend with a host of social, behavioral and psychological issues, all of which impede a child’s ability to learn. And, for children in poverty level households (about 21%), mere survival trumps education EVERY TIME (consider these poverty stats the next time you bash parents for their 'lack of involvement'). These seldom mentioned facts are clearly antithetical to this administration's current assault on teachers and unions, so we teachers/activists are shouted down or diminished whenever we bring up poverty and its measurable impact on our children AND on public education.

Here's another important issue that is seldom mentioned: talk to ANY teacher across the nation, and you'll hear horror stories about the JUNK we're feeding our children. This issue goes FAR beyond the junk food students get in their school cafeterias. We are *ALL* feeding our children fish laced with mercury, fruits and vegetables that contain measurably less natural nutrients, and MASSIVE amounts of sugar--in virtually every processed food they eat.

The percentage of children who struggle with overweight issues has more than doubled since the 70s. Almost a third of our children are overweight. Along with the self-esteem, issues of excess weight, high blood pressure, diabetes and elevated cholesterol levels are common challenges for overweight children.

Let's review once more those controversial, mandated standardized tests (key components of NCLB, now RTTT): research repeatedly demonstrates that standardized tests do not correlate with fundamental knowledge of core subjects. Yet, federal funding is tied to standardized assessments, and schools persist in subjecting all students to expensive standardized tests. Do these tests measure academic achievement?

The most current comparative assessment of the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world (the OECD PISA report) ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science, and a below-average 25th for mathematics. The United States is just NINE away from the bottom in math! Clearly, our much vaunted standardized tests are NOT accurate measures of our children's academic skills (or very few of our schools would be granted the much vaunted "Recognized" status).

To those of us who are genuinely concerned about rescuing and improving our system of public education, teacher bashing has become just another way to obfuscate the real challenges we face in providing our young people with opportunities to develop their critical thinking skills and to prepare to compete in a now disintegrating global economy.

I've said before, but I think it bears repeating: ours is NOT a child-centric society. Most of us are astonishingly inept at raising our children. We have poisoned the air they breathe, the water they drink, and the earth in which we grow their food. From a macro-level, academic perspective, child advocates assert that we EXPLOIT children by treating them as personal property, we EXPLOIT children by producing and distributing child pornography, and we EXPLOIT children by selling them into servitude in this nation's bloated military. We ABUSE and NEGLECT children to such an extent that every state in the US must fund and staff child protection agencies. (In the United States, almost four children die *every day* from abuse or neglect, a statistic thought to be seriously under-reported.)

We don't protect our children from bullying or relationship violence. We don't help our children habituate exercise and good eating habits. We don't acknowledge that our corporate hedonism has poisoned the very air that our children breathe, or the water they must drink. And we certainly don't insure that our children get the education they need to compete in a global economy. In fact, the education reform movement du jour is yet another selfish agenda promulgated by people who don't have a clue about children OR education.

OUR CHILDREN RICHLY DESERVE OUR ADVOCACY. We CAN and we MUST demand a well-funded, effective system of public education. We CAN and we MUST fight radical income inequity. We CAN and we MUST safeguard the least among us, because--indeed--they are our only hope.

[mahina]

106. College is free there, or close...and you don't have to be Finnish to go.

Just live there. My friend got her Ph. D. there. It didn't take that long either, because she had already done the work and most of the writing.

She loved it there.

She is a professor now.

[MannyGoldstein]

107. Massachusetts public schools best in US, better than Finland, but

We are the Rodney Dangerfield of school systems - we get no respect.

On the NAEP "nation's report card" math and english tests, given nationwide to random groups of 4th and 8th graders every two years, Massachusetts has scored #1 in the US on all four tests given nationwide, every year the tests were given except for once when we were number 2 in one test.

In the 2007 TIMSS test, given internationally to compare student knowledge across countries, Massachusetts and Minnesota chose to be broken out as separate countries to see how they compared to the world. the result:

http://www.doe.mass.edu/news/news.aspx?id=4457">TIMSS Results Place Massachusetts Among World Leaders in Math and Science

"TIMSS is an international math and science assessment administered every four years to a sampling of 4th and 8th grade students in participating nations around the world. The test was administered in April and May 2007 to 3,600 students attending 95 randomly selected schools in Massachusetts.

In science, Massachusetts 4th graders received a scaled score of 571, surpassed only by Singapore, which scored 587; in math the state's fourth graders averaged 572, behind Hong Kong SAR (607) and Singapore (599) and tying for third with Chinese Taipei (576) and Japan (568).

Eighth graders scored 556 in science, tying with Singapore (567), Chinese Taipei (561), Japan (554) and the Republic of Korea (553); in math, the state's eighth graders scored 547, ranking sixth behind Chinese Taipei (598), Republic of Korea (597), Singapore (593), Hong Kong SAR (572), and Japan (570)."

Instead of forcing untested educational hypotheses down everyone's throats, Duncan/Obama et al should be studying what works superbly and spreading it to the rest of the country. But Mass teachers are unionized, so I suppose that's off the table.

[eridani]

111. The article made the point that a comparison to Norway would be fairer

--given that Norway is about the same size as Finland and with similar percentages of immegrants.


"I had come to Kirkkojarvi to see how the Finnish approach works with students who are not stereotypically blond, blue-eyed and Lutheran. But I wondered if Kirkkojarvi’s success against the odds might be a fluke. Some of the more vocal conservative reformers in America have grown weary of the “We-Love-Finland crowd” or so-called Finnish Envy. They argue that the United States has little to learn from a country of only 5.4 million people—4 percent of them foreign born. Yet the Finns seem to be onto something. Neighboring Norway, a country of similar size, embraces education policies similar to those in the United States. It employs standardized exams and teachers without master’s degrees. And like America, Norway’s PISA scores have been stalled in the middle ranges for the better part of a decade."

[Enthusiast]

113. There will be no improvements

as long as corporations make all the decisions.

[Ilsa]

114. The arrogance of our leadership is reflected in failure to look at international

programs that are exceptionally successful. This goes for healthcare, too. Americans seem to think they need to re-invent what has already been marvelously invented elsewhere. It's arrogance.