To the Conservative belief that the founding fathers were conservative

[dorksied]

"As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality."

George Washington, 1st President of the United States of America

SUCK IT, conservatives.

The founding of this country stemmed from a group of people trying to escape the religious and social persecution and repressions of England and the rest of Europe.

The same kind of tyranny that conservatives themselves would force upon the rest of the nation by forcing others to do as they wish, taking away freedom of choice, or attacking other religious groups.

[panader0]

1. Nice find.

[dorksied]

3. ya, when I saw it I was like O.0

[eShirl]

2. My favorite hemp farmer, a.k.a. the American Cincinnatus.

:patriot:

[Terry in Austin]

4. No, the founders weren't conservative at all

Actually, they were fairly intelligent.

:evilgrin:

[October]

5. Nice. And welcome to DU! :)

[dorksied]

10. thanks!

[white_wolf]

6. Try telling them to read some Paine sometime.

I keep waiting for the day when they start calling him a communist.

[fascisthunter]

7. Exactly...

[WCGreen]

8. It was a profoundly liberal event, this revolution we had...

[thucythucy]

9. And is it only a mere coincidence,

I wonder, that the areas of the 13 colonies that were most radical--Boston, New England in general, Philadelphia, New York, all happen to be blue areas now, while colonies that contained more Tories per capita, and never really got with the flow (for instance, South Carolina, Georgia) are the most red?

[RagAss]

11. Shooting British soldiers was a radically liberal act.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Alas some of them WERE

Adams comes to mind.

Also the words do not mean the same in the early 19th century either.

[SlimJimmy]

15. He shouldn't. He believed in a strong federal government. As a matter of fact,

he would be considered a moderate Democrat by today's standards. So, conservative? I don't think so. You would be better served to cite Madison who believed in a weak federal government and strong states. See Federalist 45 for proof of that.

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the Federal Government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State Governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negociation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will for the most part be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects, which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties and properties of the people; and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. And he was one of the people who actually debated the idea

of a king...

Just saying.

He also had legislation passed during his term the alien and Sedition Act... quite a lovely conservative piece of legislation.

Regardless liberal and conservative really did NOT mean the same thing back then as they do know,. The terms have... evolved.

[SlimJimmy]

18. I agree. The premise of the OP is incorrect.

Regardless liberal and conservative really did NOT mean the same thing back then as they do know .

[GeorgeGist]

13. To feel the necessity to rebuke such gibberish ...

is a valid reflection of the Reagan legacy.


Keep 'em stupid, that's the ticket.

[former9thward]

14. To use quotes from the founders to prove liberal or conservative

is intellectually dishonest. The present day terms 'liberal' and 'conservative' have no meaning in relation to late 1700s politics. Anyone familiar with Washington knows that Washington used the term liberal to to mean representative democracy as opposed to the monarchy. That is what was meant by that term in that time period.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. + Brazillion

:thumbsup:

[Bandit]

25. We should judge by their actions as well as their words and by their actions

they proved beyond any doubt they were probably the most Liberal thinkers on earth at the time.. Using today's definitions of both Liberal and Conservative one would be extremely hard pressed to equate their actions in any way with Conservative philosophy..

[hifiguy]

19. Conservatives would have defended the monarchy

to the bitter end. Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, not so much....

[eShirl]

20. exactly.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. It frosts me when the Republicans say that the founding fathers were "Christian,"

which is meant to bring up the image of them sitting around singing gospel hymns and saying, "Praise the Lord" all the time.

The late 18th century was not a particularly religious era. Most people were nominally Christian, but the range of actual beliefs was quite broad,and most of the intellectuals (and the founding fathers WERE what the Spiro Agnew would have called "pointy-headed intellectuals") were Deists, people who believed that God had created the world but had no current interactions with it.

The founding fathers would have looked at people like Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee and thought, "Damned rabble."

[hifiguy]

22. Yup.

Jefferson wrote his own bible that eliminated all references to the "divinity" of Jesus, IIRC. Most were deists who believed that a higher power had set the universe in motion and thereafter left it alone -the "god the watchmaker" thesis, and none of them believed in a "personal" god that took an active influence in human affairs. They would recoil from the talibornagains.

[FBaggins]

23. As now, there was a large range of political inclination - but the quote isn't a good example.

It's like someone on the right posted

To the Democrats who believe that the founding fathers were democrats:

Article IV of the US Constitution says - "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government"

SUCK IT

There are quite a few things that the Founders would love about modern liberalism... and some that would have them spinning in their graves. But that's ok! Part of what they gave us was the ability to change as a nation.

[FarLeftFist]

24. They were students of the Enlightenment, which spawned Liberalism.

They were into science, philosophy, hung out in Paris, believed in separation of church and govt, spoke 6 languages, etc etc.