Would You Be Happier With Obama If He Was The Anti-Bush?

[mattclearing]

Personally, I like President Obama, but would be happier if he hadn't hitched his wagons to Wall Street.

However, I understand that is probably the only way one can get elected President in this day and age.

That said, would you prefer he drag the electorate and the corporate media kicking and screaming to progressive positions?

Understand that this would likely mean he went to the mat for the public option and we may not have gotten coverage for pre-existing conditions.

Bush and his Wall Street buddies might be in jail now, but Obama might be dodging actual bullets and have no path to re-election.

I'd like Obama to speak out a bit more for progressive policies and hold the people who embezzled trillions from America to account, but if that's career (or actual) suicide, then I'd rather have him in the White House splitting the difference and taking what he can get.

I see a lot of people acting like a President, a black President at that, can do whatever he wants. And admittedly, the last guy in the White House gave us that impression.

Personally, I suspect Obama is doing the best that he can. He's an extremely smart man, who has necessarily made some deals to get to where he is.

Understanding the political and electoral system, it's hard to imagine someone more progressive than Obama actually getting elected. It's something of a miracle that he did.

So to those of us who think Obama can do whatever he wants, without regard for the existing power structure in America, completely ignoring what happened to the Kennedys, etc., would you be happy if he went for broke, possibly endangering himself and his family for the sake of our personal politics?

Do you think it's reasonable to expect him to pull the country to the left, to personally make up for 50 years of corporate media domination of the political debate, to try to convince the majority of Americans that everything they've been taught about capitalism is wrong, and then run for re-election?

I know people are disappointed, and have every right to be, but I also think our expectations may be a bit unrealistic.

I don't like the way Obama used Social Security and Medicare as bargaining chips, but I'm also still not convinced there was a scenario in which he'd actually follow through on significant cuts to those programs.

Successful Presidents follow the American people. Presidents who think they can drag the American people to their positions generally end up going down in flames, like George W. Bush.

Is that really what we want?

[Kennah]

1. WWMHD?

Because here is what Obama did.

http://whattheheckhasobamadonesofar.com/

Increased average fuel economy standards from 27.5mpg to 35.5mpg, starting in 2016

Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, restoring basic protections against pay discrimination for women and other workers

Provided travel expenses to families of fallen soldiers to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB

Reversed the policy of barring media coverage during the return of fallen soldiers to Dover Air Force Base

Launched recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, providing transparency and allowing the public to report fraud, waste, or abuse

Provided the Department of Veterans Affairs with more than $1.4 billion to improve services to America's Veterans

Signed the Children's Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which provides health care to 11 million kids -- 4 million of whom were previously uninsured

Issued executive order to repeal Bush era restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research

Signed the Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act, the first piece of comprehensive legislation aimed at improving the lives of Americans living with paralysis

Developed stimulus package, which includes approx. $18 billion for nondefense scientific research and development

Signed the Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act to stop fraud and wasteful spending in the defense procurement and contracting system

Issued executive order to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay

Ended Bush administration's CIA program of 'enhanced interrogation methods' by requiring that the Army field manual be used as the guide for terrorism interrogations

Increased minority access to capital

Established Credit Card Bill of Rights, preventing credit card companies from imposing arbitrary rate increases on customers

Health Care Reform Bill, preventing insurance companies from denying insurance because of a pre-existing condition

Health Care Reform Bill, allowing children to remain covered by their parents' insurance until the age of 26

Tax cuts for up to 3.5 million small businesses to help pay for employee health care coverage

Tax credits for up to 29 million individuals to help pay for health insurance

Expansion of Medicaid to all individuals under age 65 with incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level

Require health insurance plans to disclose how much of the premium actually goes to patient care

Added 4.6 billion USD to the Veterans Administration budget to recruit and retain more mental health professionals

Significantly increased funding for the Violence Against Women Act

Lifted restrictions granting Cuban Americans unrestricted rights to visit family and send remittances to the island

Eliminated subsidies to private lender middlemen of student loans and protect student borrowers

Increased funding for national parks and forests by 10%

Significantly expanded Pell grants, which help low-income students pay for college

Expanded hate crime law in the US to include sexual orientation through the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act

Provided stimulus funding to boost private sector spaceflight programs

Appointed nation's first Chief Technology Officer

Signed financial reform law establishing a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to look out for the interests of everyday Americans

Signed financial reform law requiring lenders to verify applicants' credit history, income, and employment status

Signed financial reform law prohibiting banks from engaging in proprietary trading (trading the bank's own money to turn a profit, often in conflict with their customers' interests)

Signed financial reform law allowing shareholders of publicly traded companies to vote on executive pay

Cut prescription drug cost for medicare recipients by 50%

Provided $12.2 Billion in new funding for Individuals With Disabilities Education Act

Extended Benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees

Appointed more openly gay officials than any other president in US history

The American Recovery & Reinvestment Act of 2009: a $789 billion economic stimulus plan

Created more private sector jobs in 2010 than during entire Bush years

Voluntary disclosure of White House visitors for the first time in US history

Appointed first Latina to the US Supreme Court

Promoted social responsibility through creation of serve.gov, a national database of volunteer opportunities

Reversed 'global gag rule', allowing US aid to go to organizations regardless of whether they provide abortions

Signed the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, giving the FDA the authority to regulate the manufacturing, marketing, and sale of tobacco for the first time

Signed New START Treaty - nuclear arms reduction pact with Russia

[mattclearing]

4. I know.

I know about all of the good things President Obama has done. He is a great Democratic President by any objective measure.

I really do think people expect him to be as liberal as Bush was right-wing, which wasn't a winning strategy, electorally, politically, or otherwise. I don't think it's a fair expectation.

[FarLeftFist]

37. Wasn't a winning strategy?! He won 2 terms. Yes, he should have been the Anti-Bush.

That is EXACTLY what America wanted, and needed.

[begin_within]

2. But Bush did get most of what he wanted.

And yes, I would prefer he drag the electorate and the corporate media kicking and screaming to progressive positions. The corporate media is only interested in making money, and they will go wherever the money is. I do not like the fact that corporate money cripples the Progressive agenda and I would like to see the Democratic Party attempt to build a permanent infrastructure based on small donors and wean itself off from the corporate money. And if it takes a Progressive "bully" type of President to push the country in that direction then so be it. Frankly I don't think Obama is right for the job.

[mattclearing]

5. What if that meant Obama would break deals, get shot at?

Do you think it's worth having President Biden, or President Boehner? In the real world, there are consequences for actions, and they aren't always legal.

Maybe Obama isn't right for the job, but in 2008 it was him, Hillary, who wasn't much different, and John Edwards, whom we now know would have imploded by now in the worst possible way.

No one else had a legitimate path to the nomination.

Personally, I think progressives need to drag the country to their positions. We can't expect the President to do all of the heavy lifting for us.

Bush had a media and a Congress that was heavily invested in giving away the Treasury to private interests. Obama has no comparable network of support for an extreme agenda.

[Angry Dragon]

24. I have seen this mentioned before and just do not buy it

'Personally, I think progressives need to drag the country to their positions. We can't expect the President to do all of the heavy lifting for us.'

How do you get your leader to change his path??
He has told us that we just do not understand how things work
and he has it under control.
I personally have no idea where he is leading this country.
How can I follow if I do not understand where he is going
I have called and written and he does not listen to me.
What would I or you have to do so we are heard??

And as far as the heavy lifting, I believe that is the job that he wanted.
If he did not want the heavy lifting he could have stayed in the Senate
and had the light lifting and left the job to someone else.

The job of a great or good leader is to lead, to let the people know where he is trying to lead them.
When he changes paths without telling anyone how are the people to know which way to go.
The people have told him what they want. 70-80% of the people want taxes raised on the more wealthy.
He should never stop working on that until that is achieved.

I guess in your mind it is too much to ask of a president to put his life on the line
when at the same time he can send peoples' sons and daughters to put their lives on the line
to protect this country from all the terrorists that this country creates.

[mattclearing]

25. I agree with everything you've said.

And I too have been baffled by the lack of advocacy and acceptance of right-wing premises by the White House.

I do think that Obama is playing a game where he advocates for taxes on the wealthy who make up his economic team as long as Congress won't allow it.

I do think that a congress full of progressives who represent the polled majorities who support the public option, ending wars, raising taxes on the wealthy, etc., could pull him to the left.

It seems to me that the real issue is that Congress doesn't represent America and Obama has to work with them to accomplish anything.

If Congress represented the views of Americans, then it would be a lot easier to accomplish progressive goals.

It's not clear to me that we can expect Obama to upend a corporate system that he is a chief beneficiary of.

It is clear that he's not as brave as FDR, Jack, or Bobby Kennedy.

[butterfly77]

38. His life is on the line...

by the mere fact that he is President,especially this President.

[begin_within]

32. No, it is not worth a life. In general though,

the right-wing practices character assassination instead of actual physical assassination. Just ask any Democratic candidate: the right will throw anything they can think of, true or untrue, just to see what sticks.

[treestar]

39. Bs. Prove that. Make a list of what Bush wanted and what he got

You know you ought to just become a Republican if you admire them so much.

[EFerrari]

3. He wouldn't be pulling the electorate to the left but catching up with them.

Polls showed the public preferred a public option, out of the wars, jobs over spending cuts. Your premise is faulty.

[mattclearing]

6. If only Congress acted based on polls.

The President works with Congress, not the American people. Polls of Congress show lack of support for all of those, so it is actually your premise that is flawed.

[Bluebear]

7. No. He campaigned on the public option. On ending the Iraq war. On ending tax breaks to outsourcers.

On passing clean energy bills. These were his campaign promises, not Congressional promises. He campaigned from the left and that is how he got elected.

[mattclearing]

26. He does have a mixed to poor record on those promises.

I am disappointed about the failure to deliver on these as well.

Congress was an obstacle, but Obama has been a pretty lackluster advocate for progressive priorities across the board.

[EFerrari]

8. You asked about the president dragging the electorate to the left.

So no, my response speaks directly to your premise that the electorate is to the right of Obama when he is clearly to the right of them.

[mattclearing]

10. I said that if Obama went for the public option he might have gotten nothing.

Would you have preferred nothing?

[EFerrari]

13. Nothing v. inflicting the health insurance industry further on the public?

Yes. The goal of that industry is to deny, not to provide, health care.

[Lasher]

18. I was shocked when he went for the individual mandate.

History of the Individual Health Insurance Mandate, 1989-2010

Republican Origins of Democratic Health Care Provision

The concept of the individual health insurance mandate originated in 1989 at the conservative Heritage Foundation. In 1993, Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182

[Fumesucker]

19. I wasn't shocked by the mandate..

In fact if you go back through my old posts you'll find that I was predicting an individual mandate and no public option at least six months before it all happened.

[Lasher]

21. I still had my hopes up at the time.

It took me until December last year before I finally concluded that Obama is another neoliberal. Some people like you tried to tell me better but it was a long and painful process for me, letting go of hope.

[mattclearing]

23. And yet, more people will survive and afford illness than if nothing had passed.

That's got to be worth something.

[Lasher]

9. All the Democratic nominee had to do to win in the General election was not be George W. Bush

It was this same virtue that won Obama the Nobel Peace Prize. You are therefore incorrect to say, "Understanding the political and electoral system, it's hard to imagine someone more progressive than Obama actually getting elected. It's something of a miracle that he did."

[EFerrari]

11. Yup. n/t

[mattclearing]

12. And yet, none of the other three competitive Dem candidates were any better.

Nobody more progressive than Obama was in contention for the nomination.

[Lasher]

15. Correct, somebody more progressive was not waiting in the wings. But that was not your assertion.

[mattclearing]

17. Your celebration is premature.

I said I didn't think anyone more progressive than Obama could get elected. And no one did. No one else even got close to the nomination.

[Lasher]

20. You were clearly talking about the General, not the Primary.

But go ahead, keep moving that goalpost if you don't know how to admit you're wrong.

[mattclearing]

22. You're giving some imaginary person magical electoral powers.

Nothing you've said has proven anything.

[JVS]

31. This points to a problem within our party. Progressives are excluded from positions...

of any power. That's not an accident.

[mattclearing]

36. *dingdingdingdingdingding*

Winner!

Not an accident at all. That's what I'm talking about when I say that Obama may be the best we can hope for under the circumstances.

I'm not saying we shouldn't work to change those circumstances. I'm just pointing out that we'd be foolish to sabotage the guy we've got, making the perfect the enemy of the not Rick Perry.

[eridani]

14. I would be way happier if Obama would just lay off the fucking REPUKE messaging

How does it help our party when its leader keeps saying that Democratic values are wrong and Republican ones are right?

[mattclearing]

16. As would I. n/t

[Selatius]

27. I want a president who isn't afraid to piss off the powerful.

If we ended up with another JFK, I'd truly mourn the loss of a fighter, but I would remember him as a hero of the working class. We live in mediocre times, and this country needs a hero right now.

[mattclearing]

28. I agree it would be better to have a bolder President.

I am not certain it is fair to expect it. But yes, America needs a hero, and Obama has made it clear that he's not it.

[aka-chmeee]

29. Drag the people kicking and screaming????

He won't even stand on a progressive position supported by large majorities of the people!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. The far right has been so strong for so long that your hypothetical scenario

is EXACTLY what we needed.

Just a note: With a public option, pre-existing conditions would have been irrelevant. No other country with a national health care system pays attention to pre-existing conditions.

Career suicide? Perhaps. But it's not about him. It's about the country.

The country needed a STRONG leader who would use his bully pulpit to convince the American people of his positions and then use his horse-trading tactics to get them through Congress.

It did not need someone who would talk as if he had good things in mind and then bargain them away before the Republicans even asked him to.

[mattclearing]

34. I would like to have a strong advocate for progressive priorities in the White House too.

My point was that I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect it when the White House, Congress, the media, etc., are all owned by corporate cash and that we can't be sure what's going on behind the scenes.

But yeah, it's definitely a disappointment, and everybody will pay for it.

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[AlabamaLibrul]

35. Obviously it's so much better to have him be a continuation of Bush policies

and get re-elected in a landslide.

:eyes:

[think]

40. umm he could act like a Democrat. That'd make me happy

Just because the Republicans are soulless corporate war whores doesn't mean he should appease them by being "bipartisan". I didn't vote for a spineless jellyfish that's afraid of clowns....

[dmosh42]

41. Be a president that has convictions about some issues..