I Think Socialism is no longer the Pariah it use to be

[Ichingcarpenter]

After the global meltdown, social security, the revelations of corporations, banksters the word is no longer what it was 10 years ago

Even on DU over the many years it is gaining acceptance and legitimacy,
When the WSJ prints that Marx was right, on capitalism eating its own...... Something changed

[OneGrassRoot]

1. I'm anxious to see if, and how, Buffett responds to the claim that he's a socialist.

I'd love it if he'd say we should all be democratic socialists now.

:)

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. The system is broken, rigged, fixed for the rich and that's world wide

he sees that the rich are ultimately gonna get what's coming if they don't do something.
He's no socialist but he does see trends ....

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Nope.

Still is.

Unless the pendulum acquires light speed, imho.

[sfpcjock]

3. Nice point nt

[scheming daemons]

4. WSJ didn't print that "Marx was right"... they printed that Roubini said that "Marx was Right"

Not the same thing.


And yes... while "socialism" doesn't have the same negativity associated with it that it had 10 or 20 years ago.... it still isn't ready to sell to the majority of AMericans yet.


Everyone over 40 years old grew up during the Cold War and had the evils of socialism drilled into them from an early age. The older demographics, which disproportionately vote, consider "Socialist" to be a dirty word.

It's gradually changing, but it will take a very long time until those ingrained attitudes die off.

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. gradually changing? globally?

I don't think you living in america really see what's going on in the world

[scheming daemons]

11. It hasn't been a dirty word outside of America for a long time.... but it still won't sell here yet

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Like I said .

I've seen long time DUers change over the years, maybe not you, but others now understand and support an economic change of philosophy.

Obama is fighting fascist with a feather duster.

[scheming daemons]

17. I conceded that it is changing... slowly.... but...

...until those over 50-ish die off, the word "socialism" will be a dirty word for the majority of voters in this country. Too many of them had it ingrained in their heads during the cold war that socialism was "evil".


90% of the over-50 voters in this country will have negative opinions of a person calling themselves "socialist".

[jwirr]

28. And that merely because they do not see a difference between

socialism and communism. I grew up in that era but thanks to a bunch of rethugs calling me a socialist all the time - I am one now. I am pleased with many of the changes I read about around the world. We foster a child in Tanzania simply because it is a socialist nation. I think he has a better chance there.

Capitalism worked when there was plenty of resources to keep prices low and when it was mixed as under FDR. But when scarcity begins to loom in the future socialism will be more successful for the good of all. We are moving into the era of scarcity that many other nations have had to face for decades already. Things will change slowly at first but they may also be very rapid as soon as the people wake up to the idea of scarcity.

[white_wolf]

31. Things are changing, and likely will change a lot faster if things don't turn around.

Which they likely won't, because the rich are intent on hoarding every penny they can find and the hell with the consequences.

[Adsos Letter]

5. I don't know. It is still the go-to term used by conservatives in our local paper's opinion pages

whenever they want to slam the left, or our current president. Given President Obama's lack of an identifiably socialist agenda it still seems like the knee-jerk slam around here, even if untrue.

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. It used to really bad on DU .... We had many that believed

that the meltdown in 08 still could be saved by market processes.
The media is complacent in their defense of the system. I and others warned
that it was melting back then. Right now in the world.... protests and revolution.


The US media shit you see on TV and local papers is because its controlled by 5 corporations. I shouldn't need to elaborate more on that.

[kctim]

8. I think you need to take a trip outside of "Kalifornia"

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. I have not updated on where I live

for my own reasons.... I live in Europe now.

I'm normally above the curve on what's happening. Yes there is a battle on the word in the US but now there is a discussion on what it means.

[kctim]

26. I can agree that a discussion on the word is going on in some areas

I'm just not so sure it is a favorable one once you get out of a few areas.

[Ichingcarpenter]

27. The heart land has heart disease now

and is living in denial or good fake times.. the fact is most progressive and socialistic programs from the US came from the farmers in the past century.

My farmer families in Oklahoma were members of a collective in the use of silos and such.

[jwirr]

33. And every farmer in the country will understand what we are talking

about if we just mention REA. One of the biggest most successful social programs ever. We are using computers today because of that program. Even today it makes me smile. We call them cooperatives but they are a fine example of socialism in action.

[kctim]

34. You leave out a very important fact of land/equipment share agreements

and that is that the farmers had a choice on whether to be a part of the collective or not. That freedom of choice means such a program is not a "progressive or socialistic" program. And seeing how our nation has such deep individualist roots, socialism has a hard time taking hold in places that are not dependent on government.

Socialism is still a 'dirty word' outside of liberal/progressive strongholds. IF you want to fix that, you have to work on those areas, not the areas that already accept it.

[white_wolf]

18. Spelling Califorina with a K to make it sound Russian and scarey, does not make it sound Russian

or scary. It makes you look ignorant of the English language. Calling California socialist is and adding Ks is something I've seen on right-wing boards, but I didn't expect to see it here.

[kctim]

20. I got it from HIS profile

And in keeping with the spirit of his thread, I was speaking that the feeling he has of the word "socialism" is not as prevalent outside of Cali.

[white_wolf]

23. Then I apologize. I don't read people's profiles.

Though I'd disagree with you, I think the distaste for socialism is not nearly as prevalent outside the U.S. as it is inside and even here it is slowly changing.

[Ichingcarpenter]

24. You are ignorant on what the K means for california

I find your Marx logo laughable.

[white_wolf]

29. And I really don't give a damn what you think.

The fact is I've seen plenty of right-wingers spell words with K to conjure up images of Russia as scare tactic or insult. I assumed that's what he was doing as like I said I never read people's profiles.

[BoWanZi]

38. Exactly. Rupubs add the K to make words sound evil and scarey

They sure as hell don't do it to be cute, they are trying to invoke an image in someones mind that "Kalifornia" is full of commie socialist hippies that are going to destroy "Amerika".

The OP might mean something different but that isn't how it comes across.

[Harmony Blue]

12. I proudly tell people that I am a socialist

and the responses now are actually positive unlike the a decade ago.

[jannyk]

19. Me too.

[Hydra]

13. Socialism isn't the scary demon it used to be

Because I think people are beginning to see that they are NEVER going to be rich, and neither will their children.

The knee jerk fear of socialism is the belief that someone is going to take what you have away.

When you have nothing worth taking...

[Harmony Blue]

16. It is not also the fear of losing your accumulation of personal wealth

but upward mobility into better paying salaries if you put in the effort, and years with a company. Both American romantic myths have been shattered, and people ask me more and more how come socialist countries despite the global recession are able to be far more stable than the U.S.?

[Hydra]

22. I tell people that Capitalism is backwards

The money is valued, not the people. The myth is that the people are valued based on their merit.

You're right to say that people feel awkward about the "You mean I can't move up" thing in socialism.

The funny thing is that they don't realize that in Capitalism, you are demanding the right to be a harder working and somewhat better paid slave.

[KansDem]

15. I don't think it ever was...

I know it was demonized by Repubs and conservatives for as long as I can remember. But now I see it was done to maintain the "status quo" and allow capitalists/fascists to gain in strength and number.

The plutocracy owes a lot to making "socialism" the boogey-man.

[Johonny]

21. I know I wouldn't try to live on a man made floating island without it

:)

[white_wolf]

30. That little Libertarian experiment is going to go so well

:sarcasm: You think they'd let us make a reality show what of it? It would be a lot better than American Idol and funnier than most sitcoms on TV.

[Rex]

25. Socialism is only 'bad' to a small number of people that have mental

issues with reality.

[War Horse]

32. Maybe the extreme right

Coupled with the crumbling financial markets etc have led people to look more closely at what Socialism really is?

[Enthusiast]

35. Reality sets in?

Maybe.

[eallen]

36. Likely because no one much is advocating it anymore.

Who wants to make <i>all</i> means of production publicly owned? To <i>eliminate</i> private businesses?

The financial meltdown hopefully taught some people the importance of regulation and government safety nets. But. Those nations without significant stock bourses aren't people's paradises. They're just impoverished.

If you want to argue for real socialism, don't stand in the US and point to Sweden. Sweden is a social democracy built on a healthy capitalist economy. Point, instead, to a nation where there is no capitalism.

:hippie:

[Odin2005]

37. Us young folks are too young to remember the USSR, and so...

...We are not affected by it's use as a boogyman.