Just remember one thing about the current SS debate....

[WCGreen]

The talking point that the fund is now in the red, paying out more than it is taking in is a specious argument at best and manipulative bullshit at worst.

In other words, the media is culpable in adding to the lies. (see John Stewart basically any night DOING YOUR JOB!!!!)

I think it was Paul Ryan who made this point.

First of all, that doesn't take into consideration that the trust fund is chuck full of IOU's which, of course, Ryan and his ilk will ultimately purloin in order to lower the taxes paid on the top tier.

Second, and perhaps more important, the current balance inflow to the yearly SS account is down because of the almost 10% unemployment rate.

This is even more insidious since I believe the GOP is purposely stopping any more federal job programs to decrease the unemployment rate in order to increase the current deficit in the SS fund and use that as a politial tool in the 2012 elections.

These bastards are slick and they are up against a know nothing media that propagates all the GOP bullshit by elevating what they bleat into a valid argument against common sense and, well, dare I say it, the truth.

We have more than one enemy. Remember that!!!!

[Roselma]

1. Don't forget that FICA witholding has been cut this year, and

Obama wants to continue the cuts which would end in December for another year. So that means even less money is going into the SS fund.

[WCGreen]

2. That is true...

I forgot about that one...

I was watching Leverage when it came to me, you know the con man show on TNT...

[bvar22]

25. Actually, the shortfall in SS funding from the "Temporary" Tax Holiday

..is being replaced from the General Fund....adding to the deficit!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1538388

Now WHY would the Democratic Party Leadership want to directly connect Social Security funding to The Deficit? :shrug:

[DesertFlower]

6. that is the most insane thing.

what were they thinking?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. We are beset by our enemies...

It is all so very exhausting...

I have seen the Republicans lie, and it is all I can do not to throw something besides my voice at the television set.

I know how we got here.......but how did we?

Recommended.

[WCGreen]

4. The elevation of stupid as a badge of courage....

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. Of course...

[pinboy3niner]

11. I keep reminding myself: "It's MY television," lol

A pet peeve of mine is that they never acknowledge that they are protecting the interests of BRAZILLIONAIRES--insisting, instead, that they're looking out for "job creators." The "job creators" who are looking for even MORE tax breaks while refusing to create any jobs.

It takes a lot for the people to finally get fed up, but I remember a line from The Grapes of Wrath:

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage."

[girl gone mad]

5. k & r

[dkf]

8. Funny thing how this flush trust fund won't be able to pay August 3rd benefits

Should we not raise the debt ceiling.

[WCGreen]

9. It's full of IOU's....

backed up, of course, by the full faith of the American Government.

[dkf]

10. You notice they can't even sequester FICA tax receipts to make any of the payments?

It all goes into and out of the same fund as everything else.

[kentuck]

20. The same fund that pays interest on the debt?

That pays Chinese bond holders? That pays the defense budget? That pays veteran checks? Etc?

And which is the only one that is paid by the working people for a specific purpose?

Which should have number one priority?

[dkf]

24. Yup.

I've been doing some research and the Dems wanted it separated from the general budget but Bush I refused.

Moynihan really was our champion in this respect. But he couldn't get it done.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-12-30/news/mn-974_1_social-security

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/11/us/budget-battle-senate-kills-moynihan-s-proposal-reduce-social-security-taxes.html?pagewanted=2&src=pm


And then there is this:



http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/29/257003/debt-ceiling-social-security-cuts/

[sabrina 1]

12. And don't forget that even with the shortfall due to the unemployment

rate, AND the absolutely stupid, or calculated to make SS look bad, take your pick, 'tax holiday', the interest on the Treasury Bonds is a big source of income for the SS Fund and despite the shortfall, SS still had a surplus last year.

You are right though, the media is contributing to the lies about SS.

SS is not THE problem or even A problem. I will keep repeating this, it does not belong in this discussion, so why is it in the discussion?

[WCGreen]

13. They have been repeating this bull shit since Goldwater and so there

are so many "reference" points that people start to believe it.

[pinboy3niner]

16. +100

Even here (and even in this thread), some suggest that "there is no trust fund" or that it has already been 'stolen.'

That's false, unless--and until--the U.S. adopts a new policy to renege on its obligation to re-pay the trust fund bonds. That hasn't happened so far, and the trust fund still holds bonds that are backed by the "full faith and credit" of the United States government.

Those bonds represent real money that you and I and millions of our fellow Americans and our employers have ALREADY PAID into SS. That is OUR MONEY, and we will not let it be stolen by legislative fiat.

SS is NOT the problem. The problem is the would-be THIEVES who want to steal it from the people.

[On the Road]

17. The Claim That 'There is No Trust Fund'

or that 'that money has already been spent' is particularly enraging, especially when it is accompanied by claims that believing otherwise is due to economic ignorance or naievity.

The shoe is on the other foot. Of course 'the money has been spent' -- that's why bonds are issued. The bond is still an asset. Any CFO who tried that stupid line on the corporate bondholders would be be fired. Any pension fund that tried that line would be sued out of existence.

[Kaleva]

21. It's a zero sum game

The assets in the Trust Fund are cancelled out by the debt owed to the Trust Fund.

[On the Road]

26. It Really Doesn't Work That Way

If those government bonds were traded for corporate bonds, would that make a difference to you?

[Warren Stupidity]

27. Somehow the Chinese holding t-bills have worthy assets but the US government holding

t-bills in a trust fund - that is just paper.

[indurancevile]

14. yes. if one relies on the mainstream media for their knowledge of the social

security situation they would be hopelessly confused. which is quite an accomplishment given that social security is the most straightforward/transparent government program out there.

[WCGreen]

15. And that, indurancevile, is the tragic flaw in our democracy...

a willingly uneducated voter pool.

I remember the conservatives calling any expert that didn't agree with them as "pointy headed intellectuals."

[indurancevile]

18. i don't think it's "willingly" for the majority. most people work 8 hours & have

family responsibilities. they rely on media to boil down universes of information because there are only so many hours in the day & most people simply don't have the time to dig a/o the background to dig outside whatever their area of expertise may be.

the difference between coverage of the middle east wars & vietnam is very striking. every night there would be coverage then. it wasn't completely honest, but they reported troop actions, casualties, major players, etc.

it's been years since i saw any significant coverage of the MULTIPLE wars we're in right now on tv. The major papers are somewhat better, but it's still inconsequential.

[WCGreen]

19. Willingly uneducated by the likes of Beck and Rush....

That's was what I was aiming at.

[Ganja Ninja]

22. First the trust fund is not full of IOU's.

They're called Treasury Bonds.

Second the Social Security fund is not in deficit. It has a 2.6 trillion dollar surplus.

Stop using Republican speak.

[WCGreen]

23. They are not really TBills....

...larger of these funds is the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund, which holds in trust special interest-bearing federal government securities bought with surplus OASI payroll tax revenues.

BTW, a loan is an IOU...

[Warren Stupidity]

28. fine, 'special' t-bills.

the only thing special about them is that their due date is apparently up for negotiation.

[woo me with science]

29. K&R