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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:05 PM
Original message
Has Obama finally come out as a closet Republican?
Here is the link to the press conference and speech Obama gave today to which I am responding.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=385&topic_id=596416&mesg_id=596416

Obama's fundamental assumptions about the motives of the Republicansare wrong -- terribly wrong.

He stated: "Nobody wants to see the US default." That is false.

Every economic change creates winners and losers. Who might win from a default by the US government? Well, as Obama says, a default would probably cause an increase in the interest rates the US would have to pay to borrow money. And, hey, lots of people would lose, but lots of very rich people could win. People who are flush with cash would win.

When you read about the many American businesses that are cash-rich but won't hire or invest? Well, if I were one of them, if I were up to my ears in cash, I would not loan it at today's interest extremely low interest rates. Ask any farmer. You don't sell your cattle at the market low.

I would hold out on lending in hopes that the rates would go up. So there is a constituency of people who would love to see the interest rates on American debt go up.

Examples are people who have lots of cash in their control (as well as those who could get lots of cash) and who live in countries in which they can buy a good life for very few American dollars. Well, they would love it if our government defaulted.

Some of the best examples of cash-rich companies and individuals who would like to get a higher interest rate on their loans to our government (Middle East oil wealthy, e.g.) may have a stake in the Chamber of Commerce or may have purchased more direct influence over members of Congress or key members of Obama's administration.

So Obama's assumption is false.

It follows, of course, that Obama's assumption that Republicans are negotiating over the deficit in good faith is simply baloney for the reason stated above. The deficit has replaced "terrorists" and "Al Qaeda" as the imminent scare of the moment. These threats are a tool, a gimmick the Republicans use to terrorize voters into believing all the Republican lies even when contrary to the voters' interests. Apparently with regard to the deficit they have struck terror in Obama's heart too.

The simple solution to our federal deficit is to revise our tax code to raise taxes on the wealthiest while giving big tax breaks for hiring Americans. It's easy when you put aside fear and confront the self-interests that want a default.

So, I will call Obama "naive" in thinking that the Republicans in Congress will "rise to the occasion." Chances are that Obama will be fooled and strike a cruel bargain that will cost him his presidency.

And then lets look at the programs Obama is ready to cut -- Medicare -- Social Security.

Why did Obama name Alan Simpson to this deficit commission in the first place and why in heaven's name is Obama citing Alan Simpson as an example of wisdom? Alan Simpson is a slightly (I'm being nice here) senile has-been -- an old coot. Sorry but that is what he is.

For Obama to show so much respect for Alan Simpson, for Obama to mention Simpson in his speech and responses greatly reduces my respect for Obama.

Remember Simpson's allegation that Social Security recipients were sucking at the teat. Obama should have written Alan Simpson off at that point. There is no individual more offensive to seniors who receive from Social Security based on their payments into the program than Alan Simpson. Simpson is a disgrace. Please Mr. President. Forget Alan Simpson.

The president misses the point on Libya. Whether his action was justified or not is not the question. It's about process.

Had the president been a litigator instead of whatever he did as a lawyer, he would understand that process -- due process in our justice system -- is the foundation for the rule of law. He has violated the process that Congress set up for presidents who want to involve the country in military actions. That process was set up to facilitate cooperation between Congress, authorized by the Constitution to declare war and regulate and fund our military and the president who is, under the Constitution, the Commander in Chief. Some process has to exist.

It is unlikely that Obama's request for authorization for his action in Libya will be denied. But he needs to respect the process.

As for trade agreements, I cannot think of a recent trade agreement that has lead to a rise in American jobs. Trade agreements just lead to more outsourcing, more importing and worse unemployment, especially in the manufacturing sector, in the US. I would like to see the evidence that supports Obama's claims about trade agreements.

Specifically, Obama points to the fact that we import lots of South Korean cars but South Korea does not import very many of our cars. He seems to assume that a trade agreement will change that imbalance. So what does he base his assumption on? Please tell us, Mr. President.

In fact, the failure of the South Koreans to import our cars may be because South Koreans can't afford our cars. Or maybe because our cars are impractical for their driving conditions or perhaps because they simply don't like our cars. Let's don't just jump to overly optimistic conclusions. I want to see the market research on just what products we could sell to South Korea that we are not selling now, just how much would a trade agreement benefit us. Show us the evidence.

As for the agreement with Colombia, it has drug deals and more corruption written all over it. For a few weeks in the 1960s, I worked for a small shop that imported all kinds of items from India. The boss was mostly absent and seemed to be in something of a haze a great deal of the time. Odd thing was the boss insisted that he alone open the boxes of stuff we were importing from India.

I found another job and moved on shortly after some strange individual came into the store and asked me if I knew where he could buy drugs. I didn't and, along with everything else in the place, was put on notice that working in that environment could end badly for me. That's just my personal experience with foreign trade, but it made me very aware that a lot of stuff can come in with imports that we might not want.

And we are going to ease trade with Colombia? That is either perverse and corrupt or naive.

Obama's little aside about how we can't have labor and management fighting just summarizes everything that is wrong with Obama. Why did he go into politics (or law for that matter) if he doesn't like to argue, to fight for principles.

That statement showed me just how anti-labor Obama really is. He does not understand that the structure of the American workplace is hierarchical. Laborers, workers are at a huge disadvantage in the struggle for decent wages and working conditions. They are not just being naughty kids when they demand union recognition. They are fighting for a decent way of life for themselves and their families and communities.

Scolding unions for causing trouble as if they were Sasha and Malia arguing about what TV show to watch is insulting to American employees and an indication of just what an insensitive, uncaring, unDemocratic man Obama is. Talk about arrogance. He should just switch to the Republican side right now and get it over with. That remark gave him away. Shocking.

As for taxes on the rich being the lowest since the 1950s. I have difficulty believing that the tax rates on the rich were lower in the 1950s than they are today. I think you might have to go back to the 1920s to find them at the depths that they are today. Anyone know the numbers on that?

Did lowering payroll taxes actually stimulate the economy or increase hiring? If not, why repeat the mistake. It just depletes the Social Security trust fund.

And Obama has totally given away his plan to screw seniors -- both on Medicare and Social Security.

The only hope for the Democratic Party is to field a true Democrat and ask Obama to yield to someone who can speak for Democrats.

We don't need a confused Republican in the White House. And that is what Obama is. "Compromising" on labor issues, on justice in taxation, on Medicare and on Social Security? In other words giving in on the very pillars of the Democratic Party's platform since 1932.

Creepy. That' all I can say.

Sorry this is so long, but the speech was over an hour.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. No. SATSQ. n/t
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Have you listened to the speech on which I based my post
Did I misquote him in any way?
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. He's no more or less a Republican...
...than he was in August of 2007. In some ways, he's been the most consistent President, pre-election to post-election, of my lifetime.
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StarburstClock Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
112. But GITMO's still open, wars still con't, no universal healthcare, nobody held responsible
I guess you weren't paying attention to anything Obama said pre-election.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #112
134. I called him a trimmer then...
...actually in 2006 -- and it would appear to still be the case.
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
136. But you're not posting that he isn't.
Your words: "He's no more or less a Republican..."

What does that mean?
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #136
144. Shoudl have been "He's no more or less 'a Republican'..."
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. No. n/t
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Have you listened to the speech on which I based my post
Did I misquote him in any way?

If you disagree with me, explain why.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
119. I'm sure you have quote-mined as assiduously
as an evangelical reading the "Origin of Species"

What you forget is that you are acting as nothing more than the cats paw of the media who want to reduce the numbers who would otherwise vote for Democratic candidates and a Democratic President.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
60. great pic of Obama...
love that guy....we are not worthy of such a man for the presidency!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hmmmm?
"We don't need a confused Republican in the White House. And that is what Obama is."

Meet President Obama, one of the best Democratic Presidents ever.

More: here, here and here.

Obama picks fight with GOP over tax cuts for the rich

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Have you listened to the speech on which I based my post?
Did I misquote him in any way?
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NobodyInParticular Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Tax Cuts for the Rich?
Obama figths cuts for the Rich... and CAVES and Caves and C a v e s
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. I beg ot differ.
Wherw is the recovery? Where are our living wage jobs?
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
94. Picking fights with the GOP means nothing if he caves. nm
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Hand_With_Eyes Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #94
98. Now is time for him to stick to his guns.
Caving to the right would undermine Obama's support among Democrats at a very dangerous time for our Democracy.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nah. I think all that massive amount of wrong thinking just lies a
Moderate Dem - 'popular' since bill Clinton.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Anti-labor, anti-Social Security, anti-Medicare, pro-free-trade
without any evidence that free trade will be good for American workers?

Appoints and then quotes Alan Simpson?

Did you listen to the speech and press conference in its entirety? I did, and I took notes.

My response is not a diatribe out of thin air. It is a direct response to Obama's specific statements.

I do include my personal reactions, but I am horrified that anyone can have his attitudes on issues that are at the very center of the soul of the Democratic Party, the party of FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Adlai Stevenson, Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter and less so, Bill Clinton (already leaning toward the Republican Party). If Obama stand for the new Democratic Party, who stands for the people? Cause his stances will harm most Americans. He is far too corporate, and he showed his colors in his speech and responses to the press questions.

Which side are you on?
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. I'm not disagreeing w/ you.
I just think what you are ascribing to Obama is the new center in democratic politics.

It's a shame - but I don't think Obama is unique here.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #43
82. No. Unfortunately, you are not.
But then I campaigned for McGovern and wore an Adlai Stevenson button in grade school, so I am an old-fashioned Democrat and proud of it.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is getting old guys...
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 07:20 PM by dennis4868
a closet repub?

Tell me which of these things the repubs supported? www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. You see my post. I explain it well.
Obama supports the idea that the deficit is our real problem (although just for a couple of seconds he lapses and admits that if we invested in more jobs and raised tax revenue, it would take care of the deficit). Now if he really were the smart Harvard lawyer he is supposed to be, he would be arguing that insight -- that investing in jobs would raise the tax revenues and take care of the deficit. Why isn't he? Who is he really working for?

Not me, that is for sure.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. you don't explain it well....
you make assumption that you have no idea about....alot of that is done here....hyperspeculation! He has said over and over that creating jobs helps the economy and the deficit....you just choose to ignore what he says because it will ruin your fake view of Obama....
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. If you listened to the speech, you would understand my post.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. And he wants to cut taxes not raise them.
He wants to cut Social Security and Medicare at a time when seniors are not receiving interest or income on their savings and will be forced to choose between food and medical care due to his choices.

He is not a fighter. It's disgraceful.

His comments about the NLRB Boeing decision should drive labor away from his campaign. They are fools if they support him after what he said.

Listen carefully to the speech. It's pretty boring, but very revealing.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. What kind of jobs?
Living Wage Jobs that make things of worth or just more service type jobs, flipping burgers, pushing brooms, emptying waste baskets for our masters?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
46. As I recall, not once in the speech does he mention the fact that the Bushes
and Reagan ran up at least 50% of the deficit, and that Bush fought two wars while cutting taxes -- a surefire recipe for a budget deficit.

Please correct me if I am wrong about this. But it appears that Obama is pulling another "looking forward" thing, thus accepting on his shoulders alone the burden of compromising to pay the deficit. The tax cuts for the rich caused the deficit and should be repealed if the deficit is to be reduced.

I just don't understand how Obama can be such a wimp when we need a fighter. This is not the time to compromise on the rights and economic interests of working people.

There is utterly no evidence that the cuts in payroll taxes caused employers to hire additional workers as far as I know. If Obama has that evidence, he should have mentioned it in passing and not just sort of thrown out some hopeful theory about it. I think it could be argued that any increases in employment can be ascribed to other factors. So Obama can't just assert something and expect people to take it as true.

Obama did mention that hedge fund managers and Wall Street folks should pay higher taxes. I liked that part, but it was overshadowed by so many strategic mistakes on Obama's speech. He should have lead with his discussion of tax increases for Wall Street.

He seems to be campaigning for the votes of Republicans in Congress, not for the votes of Democrats out here in the rest of America.

In discussing the Boeing NLRB decision, Obama pointed out that we have to compete with German and can't have the fighting between management and labor. I happen to have written a paper some years ago on German labor law and studied the German shared management system.

I would support Obama if he pointed out that we could have more harmony in our workplaces if we adopted German labor laws that protect workers' rights in the workplace. I would strongly support that.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
40. by now it's just reached the level of absurdity...
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
78. The List? Much of that crap is recycled Republican policy.
I'll name a few.

Bob Dole
George Bush (both of em)
Herbert Hoover
Ronald Reagan
Jerry Falwell
Robert Gates
Ray LaHood
Newt Gingrich
Jeb Bush
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Charley Crist
Andrew Sullivan
Alberto Gonzales
Tom Ridge
Charles Schultz
Mitch McConnell
John McCain
Alan Greenspan
Dick Cheney
Jim Baker
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. no
unrec
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. One word. Feh!
Look at Republicans. Look at President Obama. That is all.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Look at Obama. And then look at FDR, Truman, Adlai Stevenson, John F. Kennedy,
Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter. The true Democrats. The true tradition of our party.

Obama does not have the interests of the ordinary American working stiff at heart. If you haven't listened to his speech, please do before you criticize my response. Get concrete at the least.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. FDR rounded up and imprisoned millions of Americans based solely on their race.
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 07:56 PM by NYC Liberal
If Obama did that, somehow I don't think you would be nearly as forgiving.

FDR was also criticized by many on the left as not being "liberal enough." Huey Long and other liberals were planning to primary him from the left, starting with a spoiler candidate in 1936 to split the vote, then a serious "real liberal" in 1940 after 4 years of a Republican in office. Sound familiar?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
125. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Have you listened to his speech?
I began to listen with great hope, and then I was so shocked. I went back and listened to the beginning again to make sure I was understanding what he was saying. On this second listening, I took notes. I based my post on the notes I wrote while listening to his speech and responses.

Listen carefully and then read my post. I would appreciate concrete responses. I am so disappointed in Obama and would like to be able to change my mind.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. No. Were we listening to the same speech?
Bullocks.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. With which of my comments do you disagree?
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
113. The word Parsing and presenting of bullshit speculation as "fact"
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Did you take notes as you listened?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. No, and it's idiotic to even suggest it. Unrec.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
73. You didn't watch the speech...or you wouldn't be so flippant.
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 10:42 PM by KoKo
Watch it or wait until someone can post a transcript. It's very revealing about him. He was probably the most "off the cuff and honest" in this presser than he's been since President. It was very revealing and clear about his goals for America and his views. He was feeling very good about himself and comfortable in his role as he kept repeating: "Commander-in-Chief" and "I" and not "We."

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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. It wasn't a speech, it was a press conference.
Questions were asked.

Unrec
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. It started with a speech.
Did you actually listen to it?
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. Every word.
He made a statement and then took questions.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. Obama is a 'Rockefeller Republican'
Barack Obama's positions would be more than comfortable to liberal Republican Nelson Rockefeller.

I find it disgusting that the far right wing keep trashing Obama when he is 'with them'.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Thank you Mimosa.
If you listen to the speech, my response is totally appropriate. And I am getting a lot of flack from the usual suspects.

People cannot expect their lives to improve if they don't listen and watch carefully and face the truth.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
65. I'd say from watching that "presser" today..that he's a bit to the Right of Nelson Rockefeller...
and closer to David of Bilderberger.

Just saying. It was really a presser that made me ill watching...
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
67. Actually, I think he's to the right of Rockefeller n/t
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #67
141. Eisenhower and Nixon to.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
100. No, they wouldn't.
Rockefeller was left of Obama.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. He's a DLC New Dem. Isn't that pretty much the same as being a Republican?
Seems so from my perspective.

Politico: President Barack Obama firmly resists ideological labels, but at the end of a private meeting with a group of moderate Democrats on Tuesday afternoon, he offered a statement of solidarity.

“I am a New Democrat” he told the New Democrat Coalition.

Wikipedia: The New Democrat Coalition was founded in 1997 by Representatives Cal Dooley (California), Jim Moran (Virginia) and Timothy J. Roemer (Indiana) as a congressional affiliate of the avowedly centrist Democratic Leadership Council, whose members, including former President Bill Clinton, call themselves "New Democrats."
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. New Democrats make Tony Blair look like a Marxist
Let the rich keep every dime but tax the hell out of the working class and deprive them of pitiful benefits including medicare and public schools. The Democratic Party has sold out working people.
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merbex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
27. I appreciate the effort you took to write this~
I agree with your analysis as well and have tried to rec this...
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. I would say he is in the Bi-Curious section for sure.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
76. !
:rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. I agree, because he isn't even getting a Democratic message out there.
Please listen to the speech and respond for yourself.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
37. ROFL, this is hillarious. the alternate realities folks can create are amazing.
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 08:07 PM by dionysus
:rofl::spray::rofl::spray::rofl::spray::rofl::spray::rofl::spray::rofl::spray:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #37
66. Any comments on the points made in the OP?
I haven't had a chance to listen to the whole speech yet, but did hear some of it, and like the OP I was stunned to hear this president refer to Alan Simpson of all people, to make points.

Alan Simpson has called US Veterans anti-American for collecting their benefits stating that they were heroes when they were in Iraq, but now they are working against the country because they are collecting their benefits. I can get the quote if you like.

Alan Simpson has also stated that retiriees collecting benefits which THEY PAID FOR, are 'greedy old geezers' for not being willing to give up their benefits to help pay the debts of the corrupt, Wall St. gamblers.

It was pretty stunning to me to hear a Democratic President use this person as an example of anything other than what we DO NOT WISH TO BE. Greedy, selfish and insulting to the most vulnerable Americans.

Isn't there a Democrat somewhere that this President can point to as an example of what he admires?

So, agains, what points did the OP make that you disagree with?

Rec'd for a thoughtful OP.
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
138. What part in particular of the OP is humorous
or unrelated to reality?
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canoeist52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
38.  I can't disagree with any part of which you've written.
I think most responders have only read the title.

He's anti-union. That says everything to me. It's been a long time since we've had a pro-union President.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. Oh ffs...


Sid
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
45. No. I think not.
I've always had the sense his heart is in the right place.

He's naive sometimes and a bit inept at the nitty-grit of governance but not evil. He accepts certain truisms presented to him as fact without contemplation or thought; if he thought about it, he'd realize that the corporatist economic strategy he's surrounded with does not work...he's not dumb. Mostly, I think he lacks the vital motivation of a trench fighter (and you must be a trench-fighter to succeed as President) in politics, he doesn't enjoy the fight. LBJ enjoyed the fight. Bill Clinton enjoyed the fight. JFK enjoyed the fight. Jimmy Carter...not so much. The GOP loves the fight.

So so many problems of the left result from people taking the wrong lessons away from observation and trying to figure out why the GOP succeeds often where we do not. Being a liberal is not a passive or relativistic ideology, there is an objective right and wrong truth of liberalism and progressivism that necessitates that we take the same militant devotion to our core ideals that the enemy takes to theirs. By that, compromise and triangulation is a minor evil to be abandoned...sometimes some fights have to be all or nothing and you have to be willing to get dirty. You can't compromise and agree to split the puppy; half a puppy is a dead puppy.
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canoeist52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. "You can't compromise and agree to split the puppy; half a puppy is a dead puppy"
That statement sums up, in two sentences, why we shouldn't negotiate with evil.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #45
83. You explain it very well, Chan790.
Obama first and foremost wants to avoid conflict. He might make a great mediator, but he is not succeeding as president.

And his attitude toward American labor is horrible.

If Obama started a campaign to adopt German labor laws in the US, I would support him wholeheartedly.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #83
127. JD, thank you for taking the time and care to notate the speech.
Last year after the health care debacle I realised Obama's problem of over-conciliation and compromise is common to most adults from broken families who are mainly raised by grandparents. I am among them. We tend to vacillate to get along with nearly everybody.

This is a very bad characteristic when the Republican party is out to destroy the social safety net. Presidents, governors and senators have no business 'going along to get along'. That benefits no one.
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NobodyInParticular Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #127
143. Wonderful insight, Mimosa
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
47. Hahaha. Stupidist OP of the day. Nt
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #47
69. I thought it was a very thoughtful OP. You could refute
some of the points made, and since not everyone has yet had a chance to hear the speech, it would be more productive if you were to explain your comment. Just saying something is stupid doesn't make it so.

After reading your comment, eg, I still think the OP was thoughtfully written and do agree with the points about Alan Simpson, eg, the part of the speech I actually heard.

Did you agree with Simpson being named by the president as someone we ought to respect?

Personally I thought it was extremely stupid to mention Simpson who never should have been on that commission, and that's being kind.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. why yes, democrats on DU are delusional for not being outraged because obama stuck it to the GOP in
a press conference.

instead, we should be projecting a bunch of crap about how it was further concrete proof he's a republican secretly plotting against us all to destroy unions and entitlements.

jesus this shit has turned into silly season.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #54
89. What specific statements of Obama's did you like?
He did make a few good points, but they were overshadowed by his unDemocratic statements on Medicare, Social Security, labor unions insisting on their rights and his agreement with the basic and very erroneous theory that our deficit problem can be resolved by cutting back.

Our deficit will only be resolved by increasing revenue.

Obama is also wrong in assuming that Republicans don't really want a default, that they really want to find compromise. I think that Republicans believe that they will profit and win the next election if they cause our government to default.

In my opinion, because of Obama's false assumption about the Republicans' good faith, he is making too many concessions in his negotiations.

It is a well known fact that when you negotiate, you really can't take back a concession once you have made it. Now that Obama, from what I can tell, has agreed to cuts in Medicare and Social Security, he is stuck with the cuts he has agreed to. That is horrible for seniors and will make it very difficult for Obama to get seniors' votes in the next election regardless of how crazy the Republican candidate is.

You might want to learn about the prisoners' game. Obama is assuming that the Republicans will cooperate in the end. That is one of the possibilities under the prisoners' game scenario. I disagree with Obama, and I explain why in the OP. In addition to monetary gain, Republicans would benefit from a default because it would make Obama look incompetent.

Right now, Obama is looking pretty pitiful because he is not forcefully standing for anything at all.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
50. I watched the Whole Thing...
It was revealing and very depressing to me.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. which goes to show people can shape their perception to be whatever they want it to be...
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 09:34 PM by dionysus
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. I heard what he said...I'm an educated Democrat It was Depressing and Revealing about his Agenda
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 09:49 PM by KoKo
for America.

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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
51. Another Obama=Rep post?
Please explain the point of this.

What do you hope to acheive?
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. expect these every day for the next 6 years. the point is to turn as many DUers against the
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 09:42 PM by dionysus
administration as possible. i can think of no other reason.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Why do you think that people who've been here on DU for years are against Obama
and are working 24/7 against him? Why would you think that there's some conspiracy here to do away with him?

:shrug:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. there's no conspiracy, and this is nothing new. this has been going on since 2009.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #72
115. Escalated before 2010 election, escalating again now
Not sure what the endgame is.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #55
71. You can't imagine that people can disagree with policies
even when those policies are being implemented by elected officials THEY HELPED win??

I remember we criticized the Republicans fiercely for refusing to disagree with Bush when he was clearly wrong, on war, on the economy eg.

Did it ever occur to you that the people who are upset over the way this president constantly gives in to Republicans even when he doesn't have to, WISH LIKE HELL that they COULD support him? That after eight years of Bush they were READY for someone they could stand behind and that they knew he would not always be able to get what he wanted, but they assumed he would fight and when he did, they would do everything to help him?? And even if he lost, they would be grateful that finally someone was standing up for the people?

I am sick to death of these kinds of nasty comments against people who genuinely want this president to do what is right for the country and who are ready to jump up and down cheering for him when he does that.

I will refrain from sinking to the level of assuming that you, because I don't agree with you, have ulterior motives. This is sickening. If you think he is right, then make your case and see if you can persuade people. I have been persuaded many times by thoughtful, considerate people, that I might be wrong.

But I have never, ever been persuaded by nasty insults. You are not helping this president.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. sickening!! nasty!!1!1 alrighty then!
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 11:15 PM by dionysus
:rofl:

you're "sick to death of 'nasty' comments"? let me tell you something. i'm "sick to death", of a 24/7 outrage campaign that's calling the administration a stealth RW reagan\bush loving conspiracy to destroy the country\bribed\incompetant for going on a few years now.

i see a news conference where the concensus was, obama stuck it to the GOP and showed fight. raising taxes on the rich. yet others spin it into some kind of declaration of ultimate betrayal. spinning for anything. things coming out of thin air.
i'm "sick to death" that somehow it's simultaneously "a good speech that means nothing" in some threads, where's he's "saying the right things about fighting the GOP (but he wont, cause he's a secret republican)", or to others, his worst yet, most blatant betrayal, and "coming out as a republican", where he's just announced that he's out to destroy unions,SS, medicare,medicaid, so on and so forth.

yet you act as if this is a mere "policy disagreement"? and you call me sickening, nasty, and full of ulterior motives? are you serious?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #74
86. dionysus, what did you understand Obama to say about Medicare
and Social Security in his speech? What did you understand him to answer when asked about the NLRB decision on Boeing?

Those are two examples of statements by him that I criticized.

What did you hear him say? As I wrote earlier, I listened to the first part of his statement twice. I was so shocked the first time that I took notes the second time so that I could write the OP. I worked for and voted for Obama, and I am shocked and disappointed at how anti-labor, how pro-tax cuts, how slow to withdraw troops from Iraq when the billions we have paid from air conditioning for them while they are there could have made a big difference here if spent on education or Medicaid.

So, I would like to know specifically what you heard Obama say on the issues I asked you about. Is he going to agree to require seniors to pay more for Medicare? reduce Social Security benefits? Did he tell labor that it should shut up and cooperate with employers because, after all, we have to compete with Germany (where thanks to laws that strongly protect workers' rights, they have very little labor/management discord). Did you hear Obama say the words I ascribe to him?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #74
103. dionysus, you speak generally about a "good speech."
Tell me, which of my points do you specifically disagree with?

Do think it was good that Obama tried to sell his new trade agreements?

Do you think it was good that Obama is compromising on Social Security and Medicare benefits rather than keep his campaign promise which was that he would raise the cap on FICA contributions?

Do you think it is good that Obama wants to extend his payroll tax holiday while cutting Social Security and Medicare benefits?

Do you think it is good that Obama slams the unions because they stick up for their members against Boeing? Don't you think that as a Democratic president, Obama should clearly side with the rights of workers to organize? Isn't that kind of a fundamental tenet of the Democratic Party?

Do you think that Obama should have appointed Simpson to any position much less membership of his Deficit Reduction Commission (or whatever it was called)? Do you think Obama should be quoting Simpson as some kind of authority?

Please respond to my post on the specifics. I'm interested in hearing your views on the issues. Defending Obama in the general way that you do is useless. You can't persuade me, a lifelong Democrat with your vague defenses. You certainly would not be able to persuade anyone who wasn't a Democrat.

Do you campaign for candidates? Do you walk precincts? Make phone calls? I bet not. Because if you did, you would not talk in generalities.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #74
114. Yes, it is sickening and nasty to ascribe ulterior motives to
DUers and many other democrats, because it is not just DUers, who question the policies, the constant catering to to Republicans, of this administration.

If you disagree with the OP, you have not said where or why.

This is not just ONE mere policy disagreement, no. One would be tolerable, even a few. This is a response to an accumulation of policies, of a constant 'trading off' of progressive policies even when it was not necessary. It is a response to a president who constantly talks about 'compromise' rather than doing what is right especially when it comes to social safety nets.

But then, you have not said anything about policies, so I don't even really know what it is you agree with or disagree with. Your comments are focused on the politician, not on the issues. For most Americans, issues come first. When a politician fights for the issues s/he promised to fight for they get the respect of those who elected them. When they consistently give in to the opposition, they lose that respect.

It is up to him. If he takes a firm stand NOW, and simply refuses to touch SS, Medicare and Medicaid, which have already been meddled with, you will see a big difference in how people react to him.

That's what he was elected for, to protect the American people from the greedy, unprincipled Republicans privatizing everything, including Education funds, HC funds and SS funds. That is the job he was supposed to do. And still can.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #51
84. How do you define a Democrat, Sheepshank?
Is it just anyone who isn't as crazy as Sarah Palin or Santorum?

I expect Democrats to be pro-labor, pro-human rights, pro-Social Security, pro-Medicare, pro-public education, pro-help to the poor, pro-equal rights, pro-gay rights (which Obama once again, sort of but not real clearly supported in his response to a question), pro-economic justice, pro-graduated taxes, pro-taxing corporate profits, anti-free trade (free trade does not exist because we pay dearly for it in lost jobs and respect for ourselves), pro-peace (although many Democratic presidents have gone to war), pro-openness in government, and at this time, pro-green economy.

What is your list?

In his speech, Obama admitted that he is "compromising" on a number of these items without getting much in return.

I just don't buy into the whole idea of making drastic cuts in spending to rid ourselves of our deficit.

And I also do not think that the Republicans have nearly as much of a stake in avoiding a default as Obama seems to think. As I pointed out, a part of the Republican constituency could stand to gain from a default by our government, and they are cynical enough to tear down the country for profit. Think of what they did in Iraq.
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #84
96. Dup n/t
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 10:03 AM by Sheepshank

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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #84
99. It would appear nothing less than a Democratic, Progressive Dictator would make you think otherwise
I can't tell you what a no-hoper position that is.

Obama=Republican is total and exteme bullshit. If you are disappointed in how policies have panned out, I can accept that. But to draw that parallel is a lie at the very least. I know a site that would gladly embrace your new found goals and help you continue to undermine a party rather that work to fix it.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #99
104. Dictator I would not like. But the policies I want Obama to defend,
Social Security, Medicare, progressive taxes, labor rights, fair trade not "free" trade that costs us our jobs are the traditional Democratic positions. Obama is trying to pull the Party to the right, and I oppose his efforts to do that.

I also oppose his efforts to privatize the schools. I know where that will lead. Private schools were quite popular among White Southerners after the Civil Rights Movement. It is another word for separate but equal (which was not equal at all).

Obama is not a Democrat -- not when he disses labor unions, is willing to cut Social Security and Medicare and does not defend American jobs.

No, this presser was the clearest revelation of Obama's true leanings that I have seen. I am ashamed of him.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #99
146. You did not answer my question, Sheepshank.
Edited on Fri Jul-01-11 11:22 PM by JDPriestly
I pointed to some fundamental policies that define whether a person is a Democrat.

Then I asked you to point to the fundamental policies that define a Democrat for you. Where is your list?

Or is being a Democrat sort of like being a Yankees fan for you. Just a matter of being loyal to your team, not a matter of policy choices or ideals.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #51
90. I hope that Obama will wake up and change what he is saying and doing.
That is my point. I want Obama to succeed, but I don't think he will unless he changes his assumptions about the extent of the Republicans' willingness to cooperate. I also do not think that Obama can be re-elected if he compromises on Medicare and Social Security.

Right now, a lot of people are unemployed. And many have taken pay cuts.

Cutting Social Security is not comparable. People on Social Security are already receiving benefits that are in most cases far less than they could earn if they had jobs. In this time of high unemployment, the government should be encouraging older people to leave the workplace so that younger people can work.

We have a whole generation in which many young people who finished college a few years ago cannot find jobs that pay reasonably in the field in which they are trained.

These young people will never be able to make up for the years of experience, resume-building, confidence-building work they would be doing if more jobs were available.

This is a national tragedy that no one is talking about. Encouraging older workers to take their Social Security and retire would actually strengthen our economy.

That is why Obama should be arguing for raising taxes including the cap on FICA taxes to pay for higher Social Security benefits. The deficit could be paid for if we raised taxes on the rich. Instead, Obama is suggesting yet another FICA tax cut for employers. It is sheer folly.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
56. Unrecced, and 15 yards
for gratuitous taunting.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Why do you think the OP is doing "gratuitous taunting?" What would they gain by this?
You think they are getting money or get pleasure out of posting what they see as something they find depressing in the way our President treats some of his Democratic Voter Base?
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. It would appear to me and the only reason I can read into this particular post,
and this continued meme, is propoganda. And it ain't pro Dem propoganda.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Watch the link to Obama's whole PRESSER ...and get back to me...
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 10:03 PM by KoKo
okay?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #61
87. Excuse me, Sheepshank, but as I posted above, I proudly wore
my Adlai Stevenson button to school. I have never voted for a Republican candidate for president and never will, but Obama is a big disappointment.

He does not seem to like confrontation. He cowers in the face of stubbornness and strength. And he glibly repeats cliches about the concerns of Americans -- repairing their cars, etc. But he does not seem to feel our pain, or at least he certainly has no conviction or emotion in his voice when he talks about the struggles of ordinary Americans. And this is odd, because I remember a time when he did seem more concerned. So I wonder what happened. How could he have sold out or been intimidated so soon? His Democratic leanings must never have been as strong as mine. Otherwise he would be bristling with anger right now.
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #87
95. bull crap paragraph attempting to describe Obama's 'feelings"
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 10:00 AM by Sheepshank
How do you know he's not "bristing with anger?" Your language attempts to protray he is complacent and content with how politices have panned out....prove it.

Clearly the only thing you would be happy with is a pure, progressive dictator. One that gets everything they want, every time. Well reality is that you can't have a progressive dictator. That is completley oxymoronic. You'll never get everything you want from any Democratic President, ever. Past or future, So again, I call your motives into question.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #95
105. If he is "bristling with anger," he sure doesn't show it.
He does not seem capable of bristling with much of anything.

Sometimes it is important to be able to express a feeling. Obama seems numb to me, numb all the time.

He is so intent on being a nice guy, so intent on being cool that he is ineffective.
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #105
110. ahh so he doesn't show emotion the way YOU think he should...
...means what exactly? That he doesn't bristle or that he does and it doesn't show it enough? wow...seriously that's your arguement?

You certainly seem to think he should do say and show things just the way you want it done to validate something. I suppose you've been reading the latest rant that the last statement actually shows he's a 'dick' for voicing a stand?

It would appear that I simply don't understand your motive and moving goal posts.

Gawd you critics are all over the place hoping something will stick. THAT sounds more like the Republican stand.
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #95
117. Nobody is asking for "everything they want"
Medicare, Social Security, and support for organized labor have been pillars of the Democratic Party Platform for decades. People are justifiably upset because the current head of the Democratic Party is abandoning our core issues.

Please stop making the false argument that progressives want a "progressive dictator". All anybody wants is a President who will fight hard for the core issues of our Party - even if they lose the fight, they would be a hero for trying.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #87
101. I agree with most of what you say
But pitting Democrats against one another is not the way to go. I thought the OP was needlessly confrontational. Obama has not lived up to his promise, but poking his supporters with a sharp stick isn't real helpful.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #101
107. Are you, too, afraid of confrontation?
Because if you are, you are making a huge mistake.

Confrontation is the lifeblood of politics. Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman and Newt Gingrich are fools, and none of them will get elected. But their views get a lot of time on the news because they are confrontational.

Confrontation, drama, is what gets ordinary people paying attention to politics.

One time I was at a convention of my state's Democratic Party. I went to the lobby of a hotel in the area and had to wait there for a friend to come out of her room. The guy next to me asked me what I was doing. (He wasn't flirting. I am an older woman.) I said I was attending a Democratic Convention. He said, "Oh, Democrats. They are boring."

That's a lot of the problem with our politicians. And we get interesting characters like Weiner and Grayson, and the party leadership refuses to support them. I think guys like Obama are jealous of the Weiner, Grayson types because Weiner and Grayson get attention, some of it controversial, that the Obama-types cannot get.

Obama needs to get some drama, some showmanship into his presidency. It doesn't have to be phony, but right now people are not listening to him because he is boring them to tears and not speaking up for them.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #107
126. Confrontation doesn't bother me
I just think we should be confronting the Repukes instead of each other. There's a real enemy out there. Picking a fight with your friends is not a good strategy. The True Believers are maddening, but we can disagree without being provocative.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #126
145. That's what I am asking Obama to do -- confront the Republicans
and not us Democrats. The True Believers need to wake up, and those of us who see the reality we are in need to sound the alarm to wake them.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #101
121. Dont blame the OP for pitting Democrats against "New-Democrats".
The New-Dem's run the party and Democrats object. The party is being torn apart and it's not the OP doing it.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #101
128. Pscot, WE who are most disappointed were indeed Obama's biggest supporters
You can prove it by Googling a member's name such as Mimosa or Sabrina or JD Priestly, combined with Democratic Underground. Try focusing on posts from years 2007 and especially 2008.

The biggest supporters of Barack Obama are the DUers who are now disappointed by a President who isn't much like the candidate who inspired us.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #128
130. lol!
:rofl:
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #130
132. Take a look before you laugh
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 11:16 PM by Mimosa
http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?q=mimosa+2008&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&sa=Search&domains=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

Use DU search. With my posts the Obama posts are on pages back as far as 70 to 88. Then apologise.

Typical post:

powered by
Google
1.
Democratic Underground - Anyone who suggests that Obama has been ...
Hope you're right, Mimosa, Sep-07-08 02:59 PM, #51. I am no expert but I hear and see how the Obama campaign is reacting. DCBob, Sep-07-08 03:05 PM, #57 ...
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az...

More:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5365928&mesg_id=5369088


Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr-03-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. Obama's Contributors + a question

Good for you, 1776Forever. :bounce



I started contributing to Obama's campaign before Christmas. The first time I signed on his website to contribute 50 bucks there was a another donor ready to match my contribution. Since then I contribute 25 bucks sometimes, or even 12 or 15 every week or so. I'd happily give more if I could afford to, but I don't have it. My DH is self-employed and I am chronically ill.

I know Obama will help us all. And we'll help him.

I have a question: is it true that Obama's campaign does not accept corporate contributions?

We all know Hillary's will, and did.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
120. Looks like a tactic to get the thread locked. IMHO. nm
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Really?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #59
70. What did you like about the speech and what in the OP
is misquoted or incorrect? Blah, Blah, doesn't help anyone understand what it is you are objecting to, or agreeing with.

This IS a discussion board. The OP has presented her impressions of the speech. I see a lot of silly childish responses, but nothing that contradicts what she said.

Not having yet heard the entire speech, and reading the OP V the silly comments, I'm assuming she has made some very good observations. Unless you can prove otherwise?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
64. I think you need to replay the speech and get back to me.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
68. Too many of today's zealots know only the current iteration of the republican party.
They are too young to have known (or to starry-eyed to remember) what an eisenhower republican was. They were the enemy then. Now they sit in DLC positions.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
75. I was listening during the campaign and heard him say he admired Ronald Reagan and John F. Kennedy.
I'd like to know why I don't see more of the JFK side.



Thank you for a great analysis of the speech and a brave post, JDPriestly.

Either our party's leaders are too young to remember real Democrats or something is seriously wrong with our picture.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #75
88. Thanks, Octafish.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
77. Thanks for the analysis.
I agree, btw.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
79. Agree with your conclusion ....
Obama as Repug --

Banks took the bail out money from the Fed at 0% and then turned around and invested it

in Treasury notes at 3.5% and 4% interest!

We still have the Federal Reserve -- a private bank -- setting our economic policy!

This is the responsibility of our Congress, not a private bank --

You can't have democracy without economic democracy -- and we're certainly not going

to get that from a private bank!

We might get it from the members of Congress we elect -- and who we can un-elect!!

Economic policy is political -- only our Congress should be making those decisions for

the nation.




The simple solution to our federal deficit is to revise our tax code to raise taxes on the wealthiest while giving big tax breaks for hiring Americans. It's easy when you put aside fear and confront the self-interests that want a default.

+1 --

If Obama is "naive" and so easily fooled, what's he doing in the White House?

Alan Simpson is a vile man -- a notorious reputation as a right winger -- without his

atrocious comments it was an outrageous appointment!! With the comments, I can only

conclude that Obama wanted to hear this kind of stuff about Social Security.

For Obama to show so much respect for Alan Simpson, for Obama to mention Simpson in his speech and responses greatly reduces my respect for Obama.

Speaks very sadly for Obama -- pitifully, in fact!

And .. WE have to tell Obama that these trade agreements are about sucking more jobs out

of America -- ? Obama doesn't know that? :rofl:


And we are going to ease trade with Colombia? That is either perverse and corrupt or naive.

Agree -- perverse and corrupt -- naive, noooooooooooo...

Obviously, Obama is anti-union -- strongly so!


And certainly agree with this -- Obama is finished as far as I'm concerned --

The only hope for the Democratic Party is to field a true Democrat and ask Obama to yield to someone who can speak for Democrats.



We don't need a confused Republican in the White House. And that is what Obama is. "Compromising" on labor issues, on justice in taxation, on Medicare and on Social Security? In other words giving in on the very pillars of the Democratic Party's platform since 1932.

It is "creepy" -- especially that for almost three years now, voters have been questioning

what they've been watching as though their brains can't believe what their eyes and ears are

telling them -- and their pocketbooks!

Wake up, America -- the info your brain is getting is sadly true -- !!




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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
80. Excellent analysis, one of the best original DU posts I've ever read.

Thank you, JDP, for your integrity and courage (and yes, it takes certain courage to tell the truth in the current political environment).

:applause:
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
81. Pure garbage. n/t
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
85. Excellent take ... THANKS
for expressing it so well, a BIG :thumbsup:
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blkmusclmachine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
91. When did the "Change" really start to kick in?
9/11.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
92. I agree with your hearing the 'dog whistles' & I have a chart but I'm just
going to type it.........in 1955 the top marginal rate was a little above 90%............around 1963/64 that rate dropped to 70%...........then it went back up in the late 60s to around 76-77%.........then in 1970 it fell again to 70%.............then in 1980/81 it took a steep dive to only 50%............then in 1985/86 it fell again to under 30%...........then in 1988/89 it rose a little above 30%........then in1992 it rose to just under 40%


now for the middle class/median rates in 1955 their taxes were at 20%.........in 1963/64 taxes were lowered to around 17%.......then in 1969 taxes rose to just over 20%......then in 1972/72 rates rose to around 22%/23%.......then in 1977 they rose again rising upwards til reaching 30% in 1979/80......then in 1981/82 taxes rose again for the middle class to above 30%....1984 taxes dropped just below 30%..........in 1986 a small decrease in taxes to the low 20% range as opposed to the wealthiest's rates dropping from 50% to under 30%........the chart goes to 2006 & tax rates for middle class stayed around 22%to24%

capital gains taxes I'll just go from 1981 27%to28%.......then in 1982 fell to 20%..........1986/87 rates rose to 27%to28% stayed there til 1996..........then capital gains taxes fell to 20%.........2002 rates fell to the 15% range & stays there to the end of the chart.


In conclusion, those who do not work but have 'investments' are taxed less than those who DO WORK. chart says its' source is Tax Policy Center
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #92
108. Thanks so much, StarsinHerHair.
The tax rates now for the very rich are lower than since the 1920s if not before.
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NobodyInParticular Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #92
111. The lowest marginal tax rates again and again mark the beginning of recessions/depressions
Going back for over a hundred years: At the end of World War I the marginal rate was 60%, and the post-WWI recovery began. By 1929 the marginal rate was 20%, and the Great Depression started. By 1946 the marginal rate had reached 89%, marking the beginning of an economic turn-around and the greatest recovery in American history. With government programs like the G.I. Bill Americans became better educated than ever before, resulting in the U.S. becoming one of the best examples how a country with a superior economy can also be a model of ever-improving social justice. And now with the extended Bush tax cuts we are once again in a 1929/early thirties situation.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #92
129. ^ There in one post StarsInHerHair explained how we got the deficit ^
Add in the long time wasteful war spending and the outsourcing and we have an economic disaster.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
93. K & R
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:48 AM
Original message
Kicked and strongly recommended,
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 09:48 AM by woo me with science
Not only for the thoughtful OP, but for the in-depth follow-up to comments below.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
97. Of course not..
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RandiFan1290 Donating Member (721 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
102. One day the Washington Generals will win!
Just keep buying those tickets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyeKAkMwCpw
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
106. Apart from the SCOTUS nominees
I see very little light between the Current Occupant and the Republicanism of the likes of Bob Dole. Very little.
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erickregger Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
109. Expanding free trade is akin to hammer down the nails on America's coffin.
Our entire domestic manufacturing based has been eviscerated. And Obama is expanding free trade? We're screwed.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
116. If he agrees to any cuts in the social safety net, he'll be out 'n' proud.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
118. Very good points. The labor part illustrates it well
especially in contrast to points made by Democrats on the Health, Education, Labor and Pension Committee.

First, Obama's statement from the transcript:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/06/29/transcript-of-obama-news-conference/

Now, you asked specifically about one decision that was made by the National Labor Relations Board, the NLRB, and this relates to Boeing. Essentially, the NLRB made a finding that Boeing had not followed the law in making a decision to move a plant. And it’s an independent agency. It’s going before a judge. So I don’t want to get into the details of the case. I don’t know all the facts. That’s going to be up to a judge to decide.

What I do know is this — that as a general proposition, companies need to have the freedom to relocate. They have to follow the law, but that’s part of our system. And if they’re choosing to relocate here in the United States, that’s a good thing. And what it doesn’t make — what I think defies common sense would be a notion that we would be shutting down a plant or laying off workers because labor and management can’t come to a sensible agreement.

So my hope is, is that even as this thing is working its way through, everybody steps back for a second and says, look, if jobs are being created here in the United States, let’s make sure that we’re encouraging that. And we can’t afford to have labor and management fighting all the time, at a time when we’re competing against Germany and China and other countries that want to sell goods all around the world. And obviously, the airplane industry is an area where we still have a huge advantage, and I want to make sure that we keep it.


He starts by saying he doesn't "want to get into the details" and doesn't "know all the facts" which makes him appear neutral. Then, he proceeds to take the side of management. Notably, in doing that, he only presents their side of the argument and does not provide any information about labor's side of the issue.





Contrast that with the stance of 9 of the Democrats and Bernie on the Health, Education, Labor and Pension Committee. While they also note it should be up to a judge to decide the outcome, they bring up the importance of the labor side of the issue.





http://www.nwlaborpress.org/2011/0603/6-3-11IAM.html

Merkley, Murray and eight members of the Health, Education, Labor and Pension Committee responded in a May 19 letter to the NLRB, saying that caving to political pressure would undermine the Board’s decision.

“The question at issue is a critically important one: whether workers who exercised their rights under the law faced illegal discrimination and retaliation. This is a charge of serious misconduct that affects the rights of thousands of hardworking people,” the senators wrote. “We do not write to express any opinion about the proper outcome of this case. However, we do feel strongly both parties have the right for this important issue to be decided in the due course of the administration of justice. This case should be determined based on the facts and the law, not based on politics.”

Further, the senators wrote: “We believe it would be inappropriate for the general counsel’s office to compromise its litigating position by detailing its legal strategy in this manner.”

In addition to Merkley and Murray, the letter was signed by Democratic Senators Tom Harkin of Iowa, Barbara Mikulski of Maryland, Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico, Bernard Sanders of Vermont, Robert Casey Jr. of Pennsylvania, Al Franken of Minnesota, Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, and Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut.




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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #118
122. Excellent post, suffragette.
Yes, he could have spoken about BOTH sides of the issue, if he was going to 'get into the details' after all.


“The question at issue is a critically important one: whether workers who exercised their rights under the law faced illegal discrimination and retaliation. This is a charge of serious misconduct that affects the rights of thousands of hardworking people,”


I'm not familiar with the details of the case but if you listened only to the President's speech you would definitely assume there was only one side worthy of consideration, the side he more or less came down on. Management ...



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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #122
123. And his Commerce Secretary pick has also come out in favor of management
Some background - much more at website:

http://www.nlrb.gov/boeing-complaint-fact-sheet
On April 20, 2011, the Acting General Counsel of the National Labor Relations Board issued a complaint against the Boeing Company alleging that it violated federal labor law by deciding to transfer a second airplane production line from a union facility in the state of Washington to a non-union facility in South Carolina for discriminatory reasons. A hearing has been set for June 14, 2011 in Seattle before an administrative law judge.
On March 26, 2010, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, District Lodge 751, filed a charge with the NLRB alleging that the Boeing Company had engaged in multiple unfair labor practices related to its decision to place a second production line for the 787 Dreamliner airplane in a non-union facility.

Specifically, the union charged that the decision to transfer the line was made to retaliate against union employees for participating in past strikes and to chill future strike activity, which is protected under the National Labor Relations Act.

~~~

The investigation found that Boeing officials communicated the unlawful motivation in multiple statements to employees and the media. For example, a senior Boeing official said in a videotaped interview with the Seattle Times newspaper: "The overriding factor (in transferring the line) was not the business climate. And it was not the wages we’re paying today. It was that we cannot afford to have a work stoppage, you know, every three years."

The complaint also alleges that Boeing’s actions were “inherently destructive of the rights guaranteed employees by Section 7 of the Act."



Union view and important links here:

http://www.iam751.org/nlrb/index.html



WH Commerce Secretary Pick John Bryson Defends Boeing From NLRB Suit
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/lindsey-graham-tangles-with-machinists-union-over-nlrb-fight.php

President Obama's pick to lead the Commerce Department, John Bryson, got caught in a political crossfire over a lawsuit between the National Labor Relations Board and his employer, Boeing, at his confirmation hearing on Tuesday. He chose to side with Boeing, where he holds a seat on the board.

The NLRB has filed a complaint against Boeing alleging that the company is building an assembly line in South Carolina as retaliation against its unionized Washington State workers. A large number of Republican lawmakers, especially in South Carolina, have waged all-out war over the decision and are even threatening to cut off the agency's funding in response.

At the hearing on Tuesday, Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison whether the NLRB decision was "regulatory excess," prompting Bryson to defend the corporation.

"I think it's not the right judgment," he said. "Maybe if I'm ... I wasn't thinking of it so much as regulation, it seemed like such an unexpected kind of legal proceeding that none of us on the board - we thought we were doing the right thing for the country and we looked hard at maintaining the jobs in Washington and expanding the jobs elsewhere for the benefit of the country and never thought for example of putting those jobs outside the U.S."



Republicans, of course, are going at this like sharks sensing blood in the water since they no doubt see this as fitting in with their plans to weaken NLRB and decimate unions. Issa is heavily engaged.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2011-06-29/news/boeing-nlrb-and-obama-s-proxy/
Meanwhile, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Also Not South Carolina or Washington), chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, is further defining himself as an anything-but-objective overseer, publishing a report on a hearing pertaining to the complaint called "Unionization Through Regulation: The NLRB's Holding Pattern on Free Enterprise."




Latest ruling:
http://www.iam751.org/pages/news/63011nlrbhearingupdate.html
Judge Soundly Rejects Boeing’s Motion To Dismiss

June 30, 2011 Seattle, WA - In a 19-page ruling issued today, Judge Clifford Anderson rejected “in its entirety” Boeing’s motion to dismiss the NLRB case challenging its retaliatory transfer of the second 787 line and associated supply-chain work to South Carolina.
Although many of Boeing’s arguments were rejected based on the need for further evidence, there are several significant points in today’s ruling.
1) The Judge rejects Boeing’s claim that its CEO’s comments could not be construed as unlawful threats.
2) Citing settled Board law, he likewise rejects as a matter of law two of Boeing's key defenses. Judge Anderson rules that Boeing was not entitled to place the second line in South Carolina because the second line was allegedly "new work" and thus Puget Sound workers were not yet harmed by the move. He also flatly rejects Boeing's contract defense holding that a "contract clause allowing the employer to locate work as it sees fit does not authorize that employer to do so for a reason prohibited by the Act.”
Both claims have been pillars of Boeing’s increasingly public and political defense for the discriminatory transfer of work from Puget Sound to South Carolina.
Finally, he rejects Boeing’s attempt to narrow the proposed remedy of retaining the second 787 line in Everett. The Judge notes that this is the standard Board remedy and it is too early in the proceedings to make this judgment.
In addition, all of Boeing’s pre-trial efforts to derail this case were rejected in their entirety.
“This reaffirms what we have said all along – that Boeing provided no facts or legal basis as to why the case should be dismissed,” said Connie Kelliher, spokeswoman for Machinists District 751. “The case will now proceed to a trial, as it should, on its merits.”
The hearing will resume at 9 a.m. on Wednesday, July 6.



Additional House Dems fighting Issa and crew:
http://democrats.edworkforce.house.gov/newsroom/2011/06/house-dems-to-chairman-issa-pr.shtml

House Dems to Chairman Issa: Pressing NLRB to Testify Now Raises Serious Constitutional and Ethical Concerns
June 16, 2011 1:55 PM
WASHINGTON, D.C. – Citing constitutional and ethical concerns, Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-MD), the senior Democrat of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, and Rep. George Miller (D-CA), the senior Democrat of the Education and the Workforce Committee, called on Chairman Darrell Issa today to delay his demand that National Labor Relations Board’s (NLRB) Acting General Counsel testify Friday on the agency’s ongoing case against Boeing. The case is currently being argued before an administrative law judge.

t is the Committee’s concern, and it is the concern of all Members of Congress that we conduct ourselves in a manner that upholds the Constitution,” Cummings and Miller wrote. “Recognizing the risk of interference, as well as the risk of the appearance of interference, a responsible chairman would take care to minimize these risks. Rather than creating a new basis for appealing any final agency decision, increasing uncertainty, and shifting the costs of your interference onto private parties, the Committee should wait until the case is no longer pending before calling the Chief Prosecutor to testify at a hearing about that case.”

Under the threat of a subpoena, Chairman Issa demanded that NLRB’s Acting General Counsel Lafe Solomon appear before the Oversight and Government Reform Committee on Friday to answer questions about the agency’s case against Boeing. Top Republicans on both the Oversight and Government Reform and Education and the Workforce Committees have also requested that Solomon turn over sensitive internal documents relating to the ongoing case.
~~~
NLRB’s Acting General Counsel has alleged that Boeing engaged in unlawful retaliation against workers in its Washington state operation. The company moved part of its Washington state operation to a non-union plant in South Carolina because, as the company said in news reports, workers in Washington had repeatedly exercised their right to strike under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA). A new production line in Washington will be eliminated as a result of the move. Under the NLRA, it is illegal for companies to retaliate against workers, union or non-union, because they exercised their legal rights.



I added the bold in the last paragraph.


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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #123
140. Thank you for this post, suffragette.
Good ruling by the judge, I bet they weren't happy about that. And Issa is a real jerk. I would think that they could plead the fifth or something, as it is obvious he is trying to influence the case or undermine it. He never grew out of his criminal past, or was that his brother, or both?

But all of this definitely sheds some light on what seemed like an inoccuous statement from the President. It does now seem like a message that he is on the side of management which is very sad, if true, considering the law. But to appoint an insider also, is not a good sign and I'm sure the Union got the message.

I hope the workers win this case, but it's amazing how much trouble they will go to, to bust the unions.

Great research, I think this is a very important case and worth watching for the outcome.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
124. Well I do not believe he is naive or stupid
The only other possibility is that he really wants to cave to Republicans. His goal IS to cut SS and Medicare. The only reason for the payroll tax cut is to put SS in position to where it HAS to cut benefits.

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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
131. Give me the name of one Republican presidential candidate who agrees with you.
Edited on Thu Jun-30-11 11:21 PM by ClarkUSA
Or give me the name of one Congressional Republican who agrees with you.

Or give me the name of one Republican analyst who agrees with you.

Or give me the name of one Republican media analyst who agrees with you.

Or give me the name of one Republican newspaper editor who agrees with you.

Or give me the name of one College Republican who agrees with you.

Or give me the name of one Republican mayor who agrees with you.

Or give me the name of one Republican governor who agrees with you.

Or give me the name of one Republican Party State Chairman who agrees with you.

Barring all of the above, please tell me another fairytale before I go to bed.

:rofl:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #131
137. The disconnect is really hilarious...
Pubbies say he's worse than liberal, he's socialist... and his own Democrats are calling him a Republican.

Silly season began waaaaaaay early this election... it began on the heels of the last election.

The happy ending to this fairytale is going to really piss these people off!

:rofl:
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NobodyInParticular Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #131
139. Republicans run a tight ship,
so they keep up the message that "Obama is a Socialist" because it works for their vast audience of believers. Stage managers on the democratic side keep trumpeting the message "Obama can't do wrong (he is only doing the best he can)" to their own true believers. The difference between the two sides is that critical thinking is still appreciated by at least a good plurality on the Democratic side, where progressives challenge Obama when his actions don't match his words. Examples: being for the middle and working classes--Obama bails out the mega-banks, gives them interest free money, and lets bank management keep billions in salaries and bonuses after they ran the financial system into the ground. What if he had fought to give billions to students so they could have paid off their loans? My guess is this would have been a real stimulus. And we can go on and on: What happened to his stand on health insurance public option? What about his current position on medicare and social security? Instead of showing any kind of strength, Obama gushes with praise for Alan Simpson.
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
133. I saw it all last November
here in Arkansas when the "Democratic Party" backed Senator Blanche Lincoln, the one we in Arkansas wanted to get rid of because she wasn't acting like a democrat, to be replaced by Progressive Democrat Bill Halter. The "Democratic Party" made sure Bill Halter lost by shutting down 40 voting polls in Garland County, Bill Halter's Stronghold. Now we have Republican Senator John Boozman instead. Thank you very much. x(
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
135. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
142. K&R n/t
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